What About Vietnam

What About Vietnam S1-E09 

Vietnam Travel – First Impressions

Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. My name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host. Today we're going to do something a little bit differently in the sense that I wanted you to meet someone to talk about first impressions of Vietnam. It's a little bit hard for me to do that now because obviously traveling back and forth over many, many years, there's probably a big chance that I have become a little bit desensitized to some things and maybe don't notice them as apparently as they are for a newbie to the country. I'm really delighted to have Meghann on the program today, as her and Zach came to Vietnam in March of 2025 to do the Son Doong Cave Trek, which is a marvelous thing to do, a highly skilled thing to do for, you know, I don't, I wouldn't put that in the barrel of, you know, just something for the average bear.

So, you know, they're skilled trekkers, they've done that before and, you know, they've got experiences to draw on to do it. But we're going to hear more about from Meghann’s point of view, just those first few hours, the first few days you know, traversing the traffic, ordering food, meeting some wonderful people, you know, getting their take on Vietnamese war history and understanding and appreciating the Vietnamese and their culture of forgiveness and just, you know, really starting to immerse themselves into the country and get a feel for the region, especially of Phong Nha, where I think they got to, you know, spend some quality time with some locals. Meghann is very honest and open in her sharing. She's got a delightful story, which you have to hang on for till the end, about souvenirs to take home. So, well worth the wait. But, you know, I put this in the Season 1 series because it's part of what I think you as a first-time traveler will get some benefit from hearing because it's not talking about Vietnam of old, it is talking about some of the aspects of Vietnam as it sits today. And I can't do that effectively without someone like Meghann who you know, coming from the US, coming fresh into Vietnam and Southeast Asia. You know, Meghann can do that justice where I can't really do that. But it was great to share with her and remember some of the aspects that I found, you know, way back in 2007. So, you know, sit back people. I've put a link to the blog that Meghann and Zach put together called The Grah Life, so you'll see that in the show notes that you can see some of their other adventures as well. Sit back, stay tuned, there's a great show ahead. Let's say hello to Meghann. Hi, thanks for having me. Maybe give us a little bit of background to yourselves, yourself and Zach, and yeah, we can take it from there.

Meghann Grah: All right. So we are travel bloggers under, we call ourselves The Graw Life. It's a play off the good life using our last name. And we just have a love for the outdoors and inspiring others to get out there and try new things. And we're based in Washington State, so we are American. And Vietnam was like a very big, big trip for us.

Kerry Newsome: Meghann, tell us the year that you went to Vietnam for the trip. And I know you did Son Doong, and I'd love to talk to you about that, but we probably won't get that in this show. But what year did you go? March of 2025. Wow. So, nice and fresh. Fabulous. Let's roll it back. Let's talk about your first impressions of Vietnam. And you can be blunt, you can be open, but I want you to share what your first impressions, the city that you landed into, your flight to there, because I have a lot of US clients. So, you know, Share away.

Meghann Grah: Okay, so we flew in and out of Hanoi, and I'm not sure if it was the 20 hours of travel, but when we arrived, being in the city was just very overwhelming, very overstimulating. I was pretty tired of planning by the time we got around to booking lodging, so I took recommendations from a friend about where to book lodging in Hanoi. We went to the Old Quarter, of course. And they recommended this Airbnb on a street that closes on weekends and becomes a walking street. I was like, perfect. We're going to arrive on Friday. It'll be nice and quiet. And I had read that a lot of lodging is really noisy. So I was like, OK, even if it's not as noisy as other places, it's still going to be a little quieter if the street closes. And then we arrived. And they were having a celebration for International Police Day. I believe it was, there was like an entire stage set up that was like the size of a three-story building, like right outside the Airbnb. And they spent all of Friday practicing and doing sound checks up until midnight. And then at like 7 or 8 AM on Saturday, they started with huge drums. It was fine because we were waking up early that day to go to Hoang Bay, but it was just so funny because we were like, oh, like, you know, thinking like, we'll get a quiet Airbnb on our first night in Hanoi. And it was not quiet. I was going to say, um, I was lazy and I booked that Airbnb for the weekend that we left Hanoi to, like left the country. So that was our last Airbnb. I was thinking like, all right, it's still going to, you know, the street will still close to cars. Um, it'll be much quieter this time. There's not going to be a huge festival there. We got into town and could not figure out why there was just massive amounts of people outside of the building after it took us all day to figure out what was going on. But, uh, the building that's like on that end of the block was being demolished. or it was like set for demolition, I think later that month or something. Yeah, so everybody was going to take pictures and see the building one more time before it got demolished. So again, it wasn't quiet at all.

Kerry Newsome: How do you explain that to people, that offense to your senses when you arrive into Vietnam? Do you think it's the motorbikes or do you think it's the sounds? Do you think it's just the chaos? Yeah. Do you think that's the overload?

Meghann Grah: I think it's a little bit of everything, but it was also just like the amount of people there and everybody's on a motorbike versus like in cars. I've been to New York and there's lots of cars and lots of people. It seemed like Hanoi had more people and more motorcycles and maybe more noise too. So yeah, just more of everything.

Kerry Newsome: Yeah. And as I said, I, uh, I'm bad because I, I don't really appreciate that enough for people. I think when I talk to people about their first time to Vietnam, I forget to ask them about those first impressions and to probably set the expectation for people that it is going to be you know, quite confronting about your lodging, where it is. And the other thing I think to add to this is that Vietnamese don't seem to notice it. You know, they don't understand space, like they don't understand the effects of whatever they do is going to affect another person. They don't seem to be able to moderate those situations for Westerners because it doesn't matter whether you're in a crowd or whatever, they can't conceive what would be upsetting you or what you would be struggling with or find difficult. And I know this because when I've traveled and I've had a guide and I've said something to the guide and said, like, why are all these people here? And he would say, you know, what people like, this is just kind of an ordinary average day. And I'd say, oh, okay. So, I'd have to kind of readjust my thinking. And that's why when you go out to some of the outer areas where, you know, you're in rural landscapes and things like that, you kind of breathe a breath of fresh air because you go, oh, okay, this is kind of more what I'm used to because there's more space, less noise and more nature to help offset the urbanization, I guess, of the city. How did you find getting around? Did you decide to just walk it and and kind of figure it out on your own? Or did you get a guide? How did you decide to navigate the landscape? Because you didn't have that long before you went to Halong Bay, did you?

Meghann Grah: No, so we only had one night in Hanoi before we headed back to Halong Bay. So our trip was a little chaotic. I don't know if chaotic is the right word. I mean, I don't want to say not very well organized, But our whole trip was planned around when we were in Song Dong, the cave. So we flew into Hanoi, spent the night there, went to Hoang Bay, spent the night there, went to Ninh Binh, had one night there, then had to go back to Hanoi so we could catch a flight to central Vietnam to get to the caves, and spent two nights there. And it was just like a lot of ping-ponging around as much as like seeing as much as we could before we headed to the cave.

Kerry Newsome: Direct flights because you would have had to get to Dong Hoi to get to Phong Nha caves and you would have had to go back to Hanoi to get the flight because that's the only connection that you can get because Phong Nha is sort of like it's relatively easy to get to but as long as you're on the main routes Let's talk about expectations versus reality in the sense of, okay, you're in Hanoi. How did you go crossing the street? How did you go ordering food? All of that kind of stuff.

Meghann Grah: All right. We knew that crossing the street was different than here in the States. The traffic never stops and it goes every direction. I think the second time Zach crossed the street, he said, “I was born for this”.

I love it. And meanwhile, I'm just saying, don't cross the street without me. And I'm like clinging to him like, wait for me. Cause I didn't like it, but he loved it.

Kerry Newsome: I love that. I was born for this. Like I, because I'm, uh, I'm, I'm small, I'm quite short, And I mean, okay, I've got blonde hair, so I kind of stand out a little bit. But in the speed of the tracking, I've learned these really clever techniques about crossing a road. Because being small also, you can get easily missed walking across. So when I see somebody about to cross the road, be that a local or be that a couple or a group of people, I kind of jump in and join them just to create more bulk when you're crossing into that. And then my second technique is around picking my points. So there's no way I'm gonna cross five lanes or six lanes, et cetera. That's putting my life at too much risk. But maybe if I go further down the road, it'll be reduced to two lanes. And even though they might be merging, because there isn't lights or whatever, it means that there's less in that corner or less in that intersection. So then I can cross that with quite a good level of confidence.

Meghann Grah: That's how I cross the street as well. And then both of us would also just try to be strategic around what vehicles were passing by. And if there was a larger car, you can kind of use them to block traffic for you in one way or another. So, yeah. But I did find that going with a group of people, whoever happens to be crossing, was the way that I felt most comfortable crossing the street. Zach was good to just go on his own.

Kerry Newsome: Yeah. And because, see, the other interesting part about it is that people think, oh, there's cars there, so that gives it some sense and sensibility. It actually doesn't. The cars are the ones that can cause the most damage. And obviously they don't have quite the same agility as the bikes. The bikes often aren't going very fast. They're going probably about 40 K in some areas, maybe only 20 or 30 K. And plus they can stop, you know, like on a heartbeat where the car is bigger. The conversation I have with people around the people who drive the cars, is that some say people that are driving those cars are driving them like they're bikes, but being aware of the stream and the kind of car or bike or whatever that's coming down your way or coming towards wherever you are, this is kind of all happening in your brain at the same time, don't you think? You're picking your point, you're managing the whole situation around this would be a good time, this wouldn't be, let's wait. And so you're kind of adjusting to the environment without you realizing it, but it's kind of happening in the background of your brain.

Meghann Grah: Yeah, definitely. I felt like it was, I wasn't ever so used to it that I wasn't realizing it. I was very much aware of being strategic and and choosing the right place and time.

Kerry Newsome: And what happens with your brain once it starts adjusting to this, it also starts to become less sensitive to it. So you do become conditioned to it over time. You get into some kind of rhythm with it and it kind of calms down. I try to say to people, and we're going to talk about the food in a minute, but I try to say, just give yourself a few days. You will find there is, it might look like chaos, but it'll become organized chaos to you. And you will get to manage it so that it doesn't feel like such an affront every time you step out the door of the hotel. Would you say that's right?

Meghann Grah: Yeah. Yes, definitely. And after you're there for a few days, you see how efficient the traffic is too. It's like, wow, everyone is getting to where they need to be and minimal delays, no stopping at stoplights. It's, yeah, it just flows.

Kerry Newsome: And I like the, just the whole ease of it that you can get on the back of a bike. Like one time I stayed in a hotel and I wanted to get to a certain region. And it was kind of, oh, I could get an Uber and whatever. And I'm just chatting with the receptionist and I'm going, you know, I need to buy this. Where would I go for this and blah, blah, blah. She said, look, do you mind? I can actually take you. I'm finishing my shift. I've got a spare helmet. You can jump on the back. So literally, within minutes, I'm on the back of her bike. with the spare helmet that is from the other receptionist that's at the hotel. And then she's driving me through the traffic to get there and then pulls up right at, literally right in front of the glass door of the boutique that I wanted to go to. And I'm going, No parking station like two blocks away that you've got to pay with a machine to park your car or whatever. I'm going, I love this. A bit like Zach, you know, I was born for this. I'm going, I love this. This is, you know, kind of what really gave me a buzz. We're talking about, you know, ordering the food and things like that in Hanoi. How did you find adjusting to that?

Meghann Grah: So I guess let's preface this. I have celiac disease, which means that I can't eat gluten, which is found in wheat and some soy sauce, stuff like that. So generally here in the US, I will look up a restaurant online and see what their menu is. you know, see if their hours say that they're open. Um, and just, just to know that I can like eat there. And, uh, so when we arrived in Hanoi, we did that and it's laughable now because the hours that restaurants say they're open on Google maps is not accurate like whatsoever. Uh, so we ended up just walking around and you find spots to eat, you eat, where places are busy, so food is turning over. Yeah, so that was my biggest thing. It was like, don't rely on Google to find restaurants. Just go walk and explore. And eating with celiac disease was really easy. One thing, you have to use very simple language. If I say, is this gluten-free, I'd get a weird look.

Kerry Newsome: What are you talking about?

Meghann Grah: Yeah, but if I said, is this rice or wheat? I would say like 75% of the time they'd say rice. I'm like, okay, cool. So it was very easy to eat having celiac.

Kerry Newsome: What was your mainstay dishes as a celiac? What would be? Because I have the question come up a lot with people that have celiac or they want gluten-free or yeah. So this is really handy information, Meghann.

Meghann Grah: Oh, good. I liked Bonsaio, the crispy pancake.

Kerry Newsome: Love it.

Meghann Grah: My favorite. To die for. Yes, it's so good. I think I ate that, I don't know, at least four times, if not more. Let's see. Oh, I think it's rose dumplings in Hanoi, or I mean, no, Hoi An.

Kerry Newsome: Is that right? Rose dumplings? Yes, they're particular to that area, actually, the rose dumpling. Yes, I could live off of those.

Meghann Grah: And yeah, just knowing that having dumplings at all is really cool and special because dumplings here in like the Seattle area almost always have wheat. So I haven't had dumplings in like 15 years since I became diagnosed.

Kerry Newsome: So, because, yes, because I'm thinking a lot of what they make as far as like noodles are all rice flour. So that suits you perfectly, doesn't it?

Meghann Grah: I honestly, I have not traveled anywhere that was like so easy to eat. A lot of pho, I loved that for breakfast. Yeah, just like spring rolls and stuff like that.

Kerry Newsome: Yes, because it's good for vegetarians as well.

Meghann Grah: We did a street food tour and it was really, really fun because we were trying things that we probably wouldn't have found on our own. and a lot of dishes, new dishes as well. But it also just gave us the confidence to try more street food and to be aware of what to look for. So I highly recommend that. It was really fun. Oh my god, we ate so much food. It was so good. Some of the bonseo we had on that street food tour, was better than the bon sale I found at a Michelin star restaurant later in the trip.

Kerry Newsome: So in that, are you saying that it's probably a good idea to get on a tour or have a guide or whatever? Because I try to say this to people when I'm planning their trips. You don't know what you don't know. You don't know where you're going, whether or not it is the best place. It might say on Google. Do you really want to trust that?

Meghann Grah: Yeah, I would say it's definitely worth it to book a food tour. you know, whatever kind of food tour you want. We wanted street food because that was like what we were most uncomfortable trying and wanting to learn about. And then our street food tour host also gave us lists of restaurants and dishes to try in the cities that we were going to next, which was Hoi An. And we would not have found one of the restaurants she recommended, like, you know, without her, you know, you walk into an alley and there's a restaurant there and that's like it was just full of Vietnamese people whereas like a block or two away it was restaurants on like the the main strip in Hoi An the night market street and those ones looked okay but they looked uh they were just obviously touristy and not the kind of experience we wanted And this restaurant was authentic. There were locals eating and obviously like great food. And our food tour host gave us specific dishes to try in each place. So we were like, okay, like, I don't know what that is, but it's on the list of food to try. So we have to do it. And that was really fun because we might not have eaten or tried those things had we not had that list to reference. What about seafood? Oh yeah. Gosh, we tried all sorts of stuff. There was a fish dish that we never caught the name of on the street food tour. When we were in Halong Bay, they served us lobster and shrimp.

Kerry Newsome: It's amazing, isn't it? Back in Australia, lobster and crayfish is really expensive. I mean, it's good, but in Vietnam, it's just normal for people to order lobsters and crayfish. and it's so fresh because they've brought it in on the day. I love the food in Vietnam.

Meghann Grah: The food is amazing and it's all so fresh. Here in the States, I'll buy groceries like once a week and you can tell that everything is, it's delivered that day. It was probably picked that day. And it's so fresh. It's a big difference.

Kerry Newsome: It is. And I love how they use dining and having a meal together as a real celebration, like they really celebrate food. And you can understand from where they've come from over the years of hardship to really appreciate and there's a lot of gratefulness around food for everybody. So, you know, they do place a lot of emphasis and care about it and they love their food and they're really excited when you want to try it. And, you know, it's really a joy. How did you find just handling the pace and kind of, I guess, the social norms over there?

Meghann Grah: I guess culture here in the United States is very busy, you're always on the go, you're always doing something. It was a huge contrast. The pace was very relaxed. It's normal to sit down at a restaurant for an extended period of time to eat your meal, or you can sit at a cafe with one drink for as long as you want. Yeah. We've been to Europe, so we've experienced that before, but it's still just as shocking experiencing it again after being out of that area for a while. So yeah, it was just very relaxing. And at first, it's hard to- Slow yourself down. Yeah, it's hard to slow yourself down and relax. But by the end of the trip, we were like, let's just go find a cafe and sit down and watch the traffic go by. And it was interesting because even though it was very relaxed and we had read that the culture was very go with the flow and timeliness is not emphasized or made into a big deal, like we had rides scheduled throughout the trip and every time we had a ride scheduled they were there like five minutes early so like they're very timely uh we had rides scheduled with um like different tour operators or guards yeah different tour operators and whatnot uh just because we had some some big rides so it was just interesting to have such like a relaxed culture but then like you know obviously you want your ride to be on time um we're like you know maybe maybe they won't be because the culture doesn't value timeliness as much but they were always early or at least on time like it was cool to be able to like depend on them when it was important but also to be able to like relax

Kerry Newsome: If I think back to 10 or even 15 years ago, Vietnam had a much more relaxed approach to time. Schedules were flexible, delays were expected, and things just moved at a different rhythm. But today it's very different, especially in the major cities and key tourism areas. Vietnam's now handling a much higher volume of travelers with more organized tours, tighter logistics, and busier roads. As a result, operators have had to really sharpen up. Particularly the reputable ones have become far more punctual and professional in order to keep everything running smoothly and get everyone where they need to be on time. That's not to say it's the same everywhere. In a regional area, things can still feel very slow, more spontaneous. But in general, the country's pace has picked up and there's a stronger culture of time awareness than ever, ever before. So when Meghann talks about guides showing up early or tours starting right on time, that's not a fluke. It's actually a great reflection of how Vietnam's tourism industry is evolving and in many ways maturing. You do have to kind of pay attention, I think, to the local environment and get into the swing of that. Out of the places you visited, where did you spend the most time?

Meghann Grah: Yeah, that was Phuong Nga. So our cave trip was Yeah, well, four days in the cave. It was like five days total. And then we had one extra day. We arrived one day early. So we had six days in Phong Nha. And the next place we stayed the longest was Hoi An. That's where we headed afterwards. And before the caves, we were in northern Vietnam and hitting up all the places. And we only stayed a day in each place. And it was exhausting. traveling between each place took longer than we anticipated. Google is not accurate again. I totally agree with you. I think if you're going to spend the time to get there, you should take a couple of days to enjoy it and get a sense of it.

Kerry Newsome: The thing is, it takes you sometimes almost a big chunk of the day to get to the place. So you're arriving, you know, in the afternoon. So then you get the evening and then you get the day. But then at the end of that day, you're moving on and you go, God, you know, I just got here.

Meghann Grah: The first half of our trip was too fast. And I, we loved getting to see Halong Bay and Ninh Binh. Um, but I like, we both agreed like, Oh, okay. If we would have had at least one extra night in each location, that would have been better.

Kerry Newsome: And, and that's, I think, uh, the kind of, message I try to get to people about, you know, what you see on these websites and what you see. And even in some of the group tours where they're going, you know, it's like a bucket list of tick that box of, you know, Hanoi, Hoi An, Hue, Nha Trang, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, if you're doing all that in 12 days, it becomes a blur. People become exhausted. That's all they remember about the trip is the exhaustion, not the actual place. because they're kind of just seeing it through a very quick window. And I don't think it does the places justice either. Let's talk about climate, because if you've ever traveled in Vietnam, you'll know just how much the weather can shape your experience. Vietnam stretches a long way from north to south, and with that comes a lot of variation. You can be soaking up the sunshine in the south while it's still cool and misty in the north, or even caught in an early downpour somewhere along the central coast. For Meghann and Zach, they spend a good portion of their trip in Phong Nha, a stunning region known for its caves and lush landscapes. And they were there in March, which can be a bit of a transitional month. In fact, I was there 2024 and it was super hot, which wasn't characteristic for that time of year, but you get what you get. So, you know, March is not quite the dry season, not quite rainy, just that in between when things can shift quickly from warm and sunny to cool and damp. So, I was super curious, how did Meghann and Zac find adjusting to Vietnam's climate, you know, overall? And did their time in Phong Nha throw any surprises for them? Let's hear what Meghann had to say.

Meghann Grah: Okay, so Zac does not do well in humidity, like heat and humidity. So, we chose to visit in March because, you know, in cooler climate, not too humid then. I think when we arrived in Hanoi, I think it was like really hot that weekend or something like that. I can't remember. It was like, yeah, or, oh, I think they had just had a heat wave and it was cold. Yeah. Um, but it was cold. So the locals were like bundled up and we're in t-shirts like, oh, this is too hot. Um, and I think it was 70 or It wasn't above 80, I don't think. But to us, it felt really warm. So it did feel like a heat wave coming from Seattle in winter, where it's no warmer than like 50 degrees in the winter in Seattle. That'd be warm. Yeah, it felt very hot to us. It still felt humid to us as well, even though it wasn't too horrible. So we had originally thought we'd spend all of our trip in northern Vietnam just so Zach wouldn't, you know, suffer in humid Vietnam. Spontaneously, I decided the last chunk of the trip after the caves, we'd go to Hoi An. I was like, you're just going to have to suffer. That's what we're going to do. Thankfully, they had a period of cool weather.

Kerry Newsome: It was cold. I was there in March as well. It was cold. I had to buy a parka. It was freezing cold when I got there. It was early March when I was there. We were prepared.

Meghann Grah: We had packed for all kinds of weather because the caves stay a certain temperature year round. So we needed warm layers for that. And then we were expecting warm temperatures. So we were totally prepared. We were really happy that it was cold while we were in Hoi An, but it was unexpected.

Kerry Newsome: Yeah. I purposely don't go to Hoi An until I get that really nice temperature period, which is around March, April. this March, April of 25, it was really cold.

Meghann Grah: Yeah, I did like plan that trip thinking, oh, we'll probably have a beach day. No, where are we going to the beach when it's this cold? So that did affect our trip.

Kerry Newsome: If you were to talk to someone about their planning as a guide, what would you say about the North to the Central and talk to us a little bit about your Hoi An experience because Hoi An is getting a lot of traction these days and is becoming quite busy. That has a kind of a positive and a negative effect. So talk to us about the difference between the North and the Central area.

Meghann Grah: Okay, so the first thing we noticed was the prevalence of English In Hanoi and the North, we were using Google Translate pretty often. If we got grab rides, they wouldn't speak English and yeah, so stuff like that. A lot of Google Translate.

Kerry Newsome: Rural areas in particular, yeah.

Meghann Grah: Yeah, and the farther we got, like down South in Vietnam, the more English was used and the more people knew English. So in Hoi An, we did not use Google Translate at all in Hoi An. And it was very touristy. Because it was cold, we didn't go to the beach. So it was like, there's a lot of shopping. So if you like shopping, go to Hoi An.

Kerry Newsome: Tailoring in particular.

Meghann Grah: Yeah, and we did get some tailoring done. So that was fun. And then we went to My Son's Sanctuary.

Kerry Newsome: Marble Mountain.

Meghann Grah: We didn't do Marble Mountain. The day that we would have done that, we went to My Son Sanctuary. And when we got back to town, someone was saying that it was foggy and they didn't see anything. So we were like, aha, we chose right. Excellent. But yeah, we just, it felt like Hoi An was much more touristy than like Phong Nha and Ninh Binh, even though like, Phong Nha and Ninh Binh, they have plenty of tourists there. But it seemed like the local towns catered to them less. In Hoi An, it's like everybody's trying to sell you souvenirs or food or whatever. And in Ninh Binh, you just got the local little grocery store, uh, tucked on the side of someone's house and all of the activities are very touristy and very popular, but it just felt different somehow.

Kerry Newsome: It's a little shanty town. I mean, there's not much to Phong Nha at all. To me, it kind of, Phong Nha doesn't have any character of its own. It is there for the caves. It's the entry point to get on the boats and go into the caves and explore nature. To me, it's a nature town and you're going to be doing more things out on some bike rides and going up the Ho Chi Minh Trail and the caves and all of that kind of thing. The town itself is, it doesn't do anything for me, but the region, I love. I really love the region and there's lots of fun, the ducks. Did you do the duck stop? I probably didn't have time.

Meghann Grah: We didn't, unfortunately, but we did ride bikes all over the place. Yeah, fabulous.

Kerry Newsome: What would you say would be some of the things in your trip that you found the most challenging or the most difficult to overcome so that they can enjoy it more?

Meghann Grah: I guess, yeah, just expecting it to be busy. And if you have a long travel day to get there, it took us about 20 hours to get there. So after that, you are going to be tired. Whatever city you land in, it is going to be overwhelming. And then just know that Yes, you're going to feel tired and overwhelmed, and then maybe the next day, that's when it starts to become much more fun.

Kerry Newsome: So it's a bit in the planning?

Meghann Grah: Yeah, and setting expectations. Just knowing if you have a long day of travel, it's going to be very tiring.

Kerry Newsome: Is there any stories or areas that you feel are underrepresented that should be spoken about more?

Meghann Grah: So we just talked about Phong Nha, but, and I agree, the town is very simple, but we felt like it was underrepresented just because there was so much history there. And that is where we spent the most time and got to, you know, chat with locals more so than anywhere else. So I definitely feel more connected to that area than elsewhere. It's just such a special area. The history with the American and Vietnam War is very intense for that area. If you look at a map that shows you what areas were bombed in the war, you will not see a spot that doesn't have a mark in that area. whole area was bombed. There's the Ho Chi Minh Trail that goes from Phong Nhat to Laos. We were told about how volunteers made that road during the war. They'd have scouts in what they called bird nests up in the trees. They'd send a signal like, there's a plane coming, which means there's bombs coming. the people working on the road would dive into little caves they had made in the side of the cliff to dodge the bombs. The plane would pass, bombs would hit, and then they'd come back out and continue working on the road to get supplies through that area.

Kerry Newsome: It's amazing, isn't it? It just blows your mind. Yeah. I thought the same.

Meghann Grah: told us about their fathers. Their father's job is deactivating bombs in the area.

Kerry Newsome: Unexploded devices, yeah.

Meghann Grah: And it's a career path to do that. There are still children and people finding bombs and landmines and getting hurt or killed from them today.

Kerry Newsome: Or maimed.

Meghann Grah: The history is very intense, and the people are so kind. Before we left for the caves, our guide is standing next to bombshells that are taller than I am. And, you know, showing us like these are bombs that were found here in Phong Nha. And they're like used as decoration, kind of, you know. But you can just tell that they're so proud of everything they've overcome. And they ended the conversation by saying, the war is over, we're happy now.

Kerry Newsome: It's just so impactful. It is, it is. And I'm kind of glad, Meghann, that you got to experience that because I have as well. And it's quite, I don't know, I always feel quite moved by the capacity of the Vietnamese to forgive. They've had many an invasion of their country. They've had many countries try to take them over and yet they come back. And what's lovely about the country now, they've been without wars now for 50 years. So, you know, they've had some time to reinvent themselves, re-engineer themselves. So, some of the youth of Vietnam don't even really recognize some of the history. If you talk to some of them, they don't even know about the American war. They don't, you know, they kind of hear that from their grandfathers or their grandparents. So, you know, it depends what area that you're in. Some areas were more impacted from the other. You'll also get a different sense of it from the North Vietnamese to the South. The Southerners have another, you know, kind of voice on the subject. And of course, you know, a lot of vets come back to Vietnam to visit and kind of see the country and how it is at this, in 2025, in this era that they're living in. And, you know, it's remarkable how they have overcome and they're proud of their history and they're proud of their ability, I think, to overcome that. And I think a lot of that is to do with their religion. Also, most of the country is Buddhist. They just have a huge capacity and a wonderful spirit. And I always feel, I don't know, when I come back you know, to Australia and I see a lot of people whinging about stupid shit. I go, oh God, you know, like if you only knew how lucky, you know, we are to have what we have. Son Doong obviously is the queen of the tours. It is life changing as I've spoken to people. I've spoken to Howard Limbert on this show, who was one of the people that discovered Son Doong. So he was one of the British team of nine that actually stumbled upon it because it's not that old. My husband did the Tulane Cave Tour, which is kind of, it sits a little bit alongside the Son Doong Cave. I might even grab you on another time to talk about Sondung because it's pretty special. Anything you'd like to kind of add you know, like things you wish you knew about or, you know, that kind of thing.

Meghann Grah: Yeah. I guess the last thing I'll mention is the best souvenir that we bought was a mixed bag of candy. And we just went to, I guess, I don't know what it's called in Vietnam, but we just kind of referred to it as like Candy Street. There's stalls with candy set out and they just have tubs.

Kerry Newsome: Oh yeah, this is in Hanoi. Yes, yes. I have Candy Street and it's just one after another.

Meghann Grah: Yeah, so we went to Candy Street and just filled up a bag and I think it They kept trying to get us to buy, I am thinking in pounds, a certain amount. And I think we bought like half of whatever they were suggesting. But just fill up the bag with anything that you think looks interesting because it's all going to be in Vietnamese or Thai or other languages. You have no idea what you're getting for the most part. So we just started filling the bag. After a little while, they started giving us samples, like, try this one. And we'd try it, like, oh, that one's really good. Take a handful of that. So when we got home, we shared that with our families. And we were thinking, this could be hit or miss. Either this is going to be really fun, or it's going to be terrible, and they're not going to like us. But it was really great. it was it felt like we got to share our love of travel of like trying new things and not knowing exactly what you're getting into um here at home it i think we got to share it with two different sets of people we thought like you know half a bag of candy is gonna last us like two weeks something like that no it lasted us like couple of days when we got home because everybody loved it. They were like, oh, I'll try this one. This one, you know, why is this one shaped like an orange? I don't know. Everybody loved it. It was really fun. It was a very interactive way to share our experience. Candy.

Kerry Newsome: I have not heard that. That's, that's a new one, Meghann. Highly recommend. Candy in Hanoi. Yeah. Good to know. Any other advice you'd give people? Spend as much time there as you can. Okay, now tell people about your website.

Meghann Grah: All right, so our website is TheGrahLife, it's T-H-E-G-R-A-H-L-I-F-E dot com, and you'll find us on social media under that name as well, on Instagram, YouTube, and Pinterest. And we've written about Son Doong, and Hanoi, and Everywhere that we've been to in Vietnam, we've got blogs on and packing lists and yeah, tons of information on Song Dong. So definitely look into that if you're going to hike.

Kerry Newsome: And I really recommend people to visit their site. It's great. It's got some fabulous tips and I think it would be really helpful to anyone planning their trip. Thanks for being on the show.

Meghann Grah Of course.

Thank you for listening.

Check out the Grah Life Vietnam here