22d51e23-8e77-4448-b2e9-230c6f281ad0The best locations in Vietnam for photographic scenic delights. Top 5 travel photography locations in Vietnam Episode 6 Top 5 travel photography locations in Vietnam 00:00 / 36:31 If there's one thing I know about travel, it's that we all love to take photographs. We all want to record those special moments in time so that we can revisit them later on and share them with our family and friends. But finding the best vantage points is a key component. Today, I'm going to be talking to someone who knows a lot about this subject, as he runs his own photo tours all through Southeast Asia, but in particular, his favorite spot is Vietnam. Etienne Bossot joins me on this podcast as he reveals the Top 5 photography locations in Vietnam that a traveller with an interest in travel photography should seek out. Etienne is well known in Vietnam as someone who knows a lot about this subject, as he runs his own photo tours all through Southeast Asia, but in particular, his favorite place is Vietnam. In particualr Hoi An. Etienne shares his tips on how to handle taking photos of people and how by driving just five to 10 kilometers outside of town, like Hoi An you are 20 years behind Hoi An. You suddenly reach this countryside where people have never seen a tourist before. For the budding photographer its a must listen to show. Check out some of his photos here on this page. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

f9b791be-473a-40c9-aff8-10fae46871a0Phil Hoolihan takes us beyond the tourist tracks What About Vietnam - Series 2-15 Find out more about Sapa as we go beyond the tourist tracks Kerry: To set the scene for my next guest, Phil Hoolihan. Phil lives in the Sapa region, I've said region as Phil will explain a bit more about that later. Phil came to Vietnam from the UK about 20 years ago on a science project, studying biodiversity, he went back to the UK after that, but only to return after he completed his degree. I find out a bit further that he had many trips in that time back and forth and probably chewed up most of that three-year degree time in Vietnam, as it says, Phil is going to give us a very grassroots take on the Sapa that features regularly in most extended tours to Vietnam. And he's going to do that versus what I keep calling and referring to the extended region, because usually the snapshot view or the snapshot tour, two to three days tour set that you will get on an extended tour, doesn't take into consideration the region that Phil's going to talk about. He's also going to talk to us more about the ethos of the region and what compelled him to stay on and add to that. The social enterprise he is involved with means we're going to soon find out that there's more to Sapa than you think. So, Phil if I could say..”great to have you on the show let's just say I'm in Hanoi and I've just bought a three-day, two-night trip to Sapa, just from a local at a desk, as you know, there's many of them in Hanoi, talk us through what that will look like. So, I'm going to get the train up, coach back as I understand from the ticket and I'm staying in a hotel in Sapa. So, talk to us a little bit about what that would look like for your average, Joe. Phil: Well, I think it's a great start to the area. I think the train itself is a big part of the experiential travel, although it's longer and more expensive than alternative forms of transport as it happens. It's a big part of this area's history. I mean, it was originally built by the French in the early 19th century. It's something that I feel brings you into an area in a unique way to sleep on a train overnight, but a lot of people come up here because of the diverse landscape, and rich culture. And I think generally it's these two elements that make North Vietnam so fascinating for many travelers, that combination of incredible scenery, potentially it often rains, it's frequently foggy and the culture, which of course is there regardless of the weather, fortunately! Kerry: But what am I going to be doing on that three days and two nights? Because the train is usually an overnight train, the time I did it, as you rightfully say, it's a cute trip. As long as you don't get a snorer to share with in your 4 berth cabin. And so, if you get a snorer in there, it's a little bit harrowing, but yeah, you're right, it's neat. The train is a really good entry point, so what happens from there? Phil: Well, generally, I mean, a lot of people think when you're arriving on the train, you're actually in Sapa, the train arrives about one hour away from Sapa in a city called Lao Chai and then it's a minibus or a pickup from there up to your hotel or accommodation in Sapa. And it's a real mix, I mean, the town has grown, I mean, I think there's many positives to the growth for certainty, one of them is the range of accommodation available now from budgets three, $4 a night, backpacker, hostel kind of establishments, right the way through to the high-end four- and five-star rooms. So, generally there's something for everyone in terms of accommodation and food as well. But frequently you'll be picked up by your guide and then most people when they're up in Sapa they are doing some form of Trek and typically those treks follow a certain pattern. If it's a half day event, it will be a village called, Cat Cat which is actually owned by a tour company or alternatively for those doing a day trip or a two-day trip it's to villages called Lai Chau and Ta Van and some people will also visit Ta Phin. So, there's four villages that are very much on the tourist trail and they're comfortable, they've been adapted for us, most of the accommodation has, and again I think most people would welcome this, they have got Western style toilets & hot shower and they offer Wi-Fi. And even the food is perhaps not as traditionally Vietnamese as you might get elsewhere, it's a fusion of Vietnamese or Western dishes. So, all in all its kind of packaged experience that fits your typical traveler in the sense that it aims for that kind of mass tourist, that mid centric person who wants to experience, but wants something comfortable and that's what most people end up doing. Kerry: Yeah, and I mean, if I draw on my own experience you know I felt like it was a well-trodden trail, like including every single stop, every single person as in a local person from a minority group, etc. They kind of were dressed and acting according to the tourists that they were going to be meeting that day, which was us. So, I felt it was a little bit orchestrated and a little bit too finely tuned. And for that I Kind of walked away with Hmm…., is that Sapa? I expected probably a more immersive, more authentic, maybe a bit more raw than I got and that kind of threw me a bit. So, since then, of course I've learned a lot and I’ve met people like you, etc. But certainly, I think it's good to talk through for the average person who's trying to fit a lot in, on a trip. You know, they think, they bought 14 days, but they're going to do an extra three days on a trip like this to Sapa. I think sometimes they want to just get in and get out and that's Kind of, to me, I don't know what your thoughts are, but that's Kind of doing Sapa and the region a disservice because the snapshot you're getting is Kind of what I'm just talking about. Superficial...Would you agree? Phil: It's too well oiled, I mean, the very fact that you mentioned there a tour, it feels like a package. It feels like the places you're walking to and the conversations you're having and the food you're eating has been pre-organized, it feels very much like that. And you know what, there are certain people who appreciate that, I'm not one of them actually. But it's simply down to a little bit of background, I mean, the larger group of visitors to Sapa are actually the Vietnamese Kinh you know, migrant Kinh workers dominate the paid employment. They run the tour companies fundamentally, and they like that Kind of tourism. They want to know where they are going to be, everything's itinerized to a point with which prior to your trip, you could even be given a menu, this is what you'll be eating on day three or day two, for instance. Well, you know, to contextualize what you've just said, those three villages, I mentioned earlier, Cat Cat, Lao Chai and Tavan, I haven't visited either of those places for years. Kerry: In 20 years. Phil: I have, I've been to all of them, but I very, very infrequently visit. I've not been to Cat Cat since I worked there 20 years ago, I haven't been there. It's not somewhere, I think it fits with myself or the audience that I prefer to talk to in Sapa, which is a little bit more sustainably orientated, a little bit more free in terms of what they want to do and the keyword is more authentic. Kerry: Yes, and with that authenticity as I want to remind people, is that they can't expect all the comforts of home with that. And I think that's where the cross section of people comes to, as in there's some people that go, oh, you know, for a couple of nights, that's fine, I can hack that. But then there's the others that go, oh, no, that's not what I bargained for and, you know, struggle. You know, they're tired, they've done a trek in the respect of, you know, some hours walking up those Hills, etc. And they're exhausted and they want all those comforts of home to come back to. And I think that's definitely on offer in Sapa as we've agreed. But I think what I'd like to take time with you today is to talk about beyond that region, you know, that more immersive aspect to the region. Because it's not as well-known and it's not as well publicised, because it is that social enterprise community kind of type sharing. And as you said, you know, the tours that you offer aren't for everybody, you know, it's not for everybody, but I want you to talk about it. So, people are at least aware of it so that they can say, hey I think that's more me rather than the more structured, more tailor-made more westernized tour. So, talk to us a little bit about beyond Sapa, talk to us about homestays that are real homestays and your interacting with the real locals. Phil: Well, I think if you look across the country nationally, you've got 13 national parks. I think there's eight UNESCO world heritage sites, and there's more in the pipeline. But one thing that stands out to me is these 53 ethnic minority groups. I believe there are more, there's also the Kinh the main ethnic group. And interestingly, we work with a lot of those ethnic minorities. And if you talk to them, they typically value nature, they enjoy being outdoors and they value that post-contact with the land and resources they grow and forage. Now, I think this is something that can be reflected very, very effectively in tourism, if you're with them and experiencing their life, inevitably, you are in nature and you're living this kind of simple hand to mouth existence with you. Now, I hope that a lot of visitors to Sapa can find and the wider region, of course, but can find this immersive, sustainable travel, this experiential style of travel far more rewarding. I mean, to a point with which many people have told me that being here is life-changing which I think is a fantastic compliment to this area. But you know, what you've got in Sapa I believe is a mountainous area, one and a half thousand meters above sea level, about six hours from Hanoi by bus. And you've got a temperate climate and that is appealing because it's better to walk in a tropical jungle. You've also got an incredible history, you've got charming little villages and beautiful scenery, but I think the key thing is how will that reflect in people's interpretation of this area? We chose Sapa primarily because the ease of access to 16 ethnic minorities in the region. And I don't mean within walking distance, some of those are three or four hours away by motorbike, but that is the heritage that this area offers. And I think that's something that often goes undervalued. If, for example, you get a Kinh Vietnamese guide who was raised in Hanoi, went to a university in Hanoi, learnt their history and culture from a book, as opposed to someone who was born here lives here can understand how to forage and collect. So, you mentioned earlier about the homestays and I mean, I've got a strange story that happened probably about two, three years ago now. And it was actually an older couple from Wales, they wrote to us in advance and said, you know, we'd like to do a challenging trek. We have three days, one day, we'd like to go on a motorbike trip and the other two were looking for something really authentic, really traditional they said a hard trek. So, we offered them a few different choices, but left it open in the sense that when they arrived, your walk distance, your level of challenge, what you eat, where you stay is all open. I mean, it's certainly not fixed beforehand because of the fluidity of the trip. And they ended up doing a lot less than they anticipated. If I'm overly harsh, I'd describe them as morbidly obese, they certainly weren't the kind of people to do a long, hard trek. We've got a fairly interesting call probably around an hour into the walk from the guide, these people aren't going to make it to lunch she said, they're just not going to get there, you know, she was panicking a little bit. So, we interjected, we spoke to the couple who were very open, they were lovely, and they said they were finding it hard and we talked to the guy and she said, oh, I'll find somewhere near here where we can have lunch, which was great. So, they went in the house, they cook their traditional food together, which they thoroughly enjoyed. And what they realized is the destination, the homestay they had in mind was just not achievable. We said, maybe you could come back into town and get a hotel, but they were determined, they wanted to stay overnight. And we said, right, two choices, it will be where you are now or you can continue to walk a little bit and find somewhere in that area to stay, which they opted for. So, they did their trip, we called them in the evening, everything's fine. They've got a homestay; they were staying in a local home and of course they are extremely traditional. It's a working farm, your cockerels and pigs wandering around; the bed is a sprung bamboo homemade bed, you do get a blanket, but there's no hot shower, there is no bathroom. In fact, many homestays don't even have toilets. That's how authentic they are, but they assured us everything was great. And they came back the next day and they raved about the experience. They said the food was delicious, the guide was knowledgeable. They thoroughly enjoyed it, but and this is the key here, when they wrote their review, it wasn't quite the same. And this to me is fascinating it was a four-star review, they thoroughly enjoyed it. It was a good review and they listed everything they thoroughly enjoyed, but they did describe the homestay is extremely challenging, I appreciate that. What they anticipated is that I think in their phraseology, they simply imagined it to be like a little boutique hotel. We normally stay in four- and five-star establishments, we thought a home stay would be a room or a hot shower, private suite. Now, to be honest, I had sent them videos, we had emailed them, and we even sent them photographs quite how they'd missed all of that, I don't know. But what they described the homestay, perhaps a little bit harshly was medieval. They said it was like staying in a cow shed. Now to some degree, I can understand that I've stayed in these homestays. I know you have; they are extremely basic. Kerry: Raw, that's what I was saying before, very raw. Phil: And that's for many people, you know, sat by the fire with a local family who speak very little English, communicating through the guide, eating local food, helping prepare, talking to the kids drinking rice wine. That experience is absolutely what they want. Well, that's something Sapa can offer, but what this couple did I believe is make a small mistake in not quite understanding the variety of homestays, whether that was their problem, I'm not quite sure because elsewhere in Vietnam, as I'm sure you're aware a homestay, something totally different, it is a boutique hotel go and stay in a homestay in Hoi An. It's absolutely not a home, it's a functional little boutique hotel. Well, these homestays are homes, they are homes you stay in. It's what I believe a homestay to be. And they can be challenging, they can be wonderful. But it's something that I think is important to discuss with whoever you arrange your Sapa trip with. Of course, you can do the authentic option, but there are other options that are more comfortable. Kerry: And I think, you know, this is what it means about meeting expectations and understanding, you know, when you buy that ticket that train trip, that coach back that two nights stay, you know, if it says a homestay, the traveler is possibly best to ask some more questions about that homestay, because if they've just come from Hoi An and they've stayed in a homestay, their expectation could be immediately that it's going to be replicated in Sapa. And we've had many a traveler that has been in shock that they would be expected to stay in accommodation of that kind. So, whilst you're talking about the authenticity side of it and the immersive side of it and being able to be part of a family, they're not there for show, they actually live there, they function there every single day and that they've invited you into their home. That is not for everyone, that is just definitely not for everyone. Phil: Well, I've also heard it the other way round. I mean, I've also heard it where people have arrived expecting authenticity, and they've actually ended up in quite a large group in a purpose-built hostel in the middle of a touristy village and they too are disappointed. Kerry: Disappointed, yes. Phil: It all depends, it's absolutely due diligence. It's preparation it’s asking the right questions and finding the right answers. And I think that's absolutely critical to enjoying your experience in this region. Kerry: Absolutely, talk to us a little bit more Phil, about the social enterprise side of what you do. I really got a lot out of our previous discussion when you were talking about just how, some of the things that you do give back to the community, and I'm really keen for you to talk and expand a bit more on that. Phil: It's a challenging area. I mean, again, I'm talking beyond Sapa now, but you've got a number of ethnic minorities that actually number millions. I mean, you know, they,stretch over five Northern provinces and actually there's a lot of historical issues beginning during the French colonial period where they were kind of supporting the French in growing and trading opium. Obviously that trade has disappeared now in order to monitor and to control that trade these tribes that were historically nomadic were forced to fix and live-in permanent settlements. And that's not how they've traditionally lived, and they found that adaptation really challenging. They went from being semi-nomadic, shifting cultivators, self-sustainable to being in their way trapped and poor, to be honest, they've never recovered. And during the Vietnam, American war, because of perceived persecution by the Vietnamese prior, they were actually recruited by the CIA and ended up siding with the Americans during the war, which had a large impact post-war. You know, if you imagine it from a Vietnamese, these people were seen as rebels and outlaws. So, what you have is what I would phrase as marginalization that can perpetuate in racism. You get people who are treated differently and do act differently, they value different things in society. So, what you tend to find is most people over the age of, let's say 27, 28 years old, never went to school because there were no schools. That means if they are in Europe, they're illiterate. And that's challenging, very challenging when you try and find employment, be in tourism or otherwise, if you walk into any job being illiterate, you find yourself often deemed unemployable. So, what you find is in this area, even though the ethnic minorities are the majority, you know, it's a strange way of terming things, but there are more of them than there are Vietnamese Kinh. The Kinh own the businesses, they own everything, all the homestays, all the restaurants, all the tour companies. Kerry: When you talk about Vietnamese Kinh, tell me what does that mean, is that a rural person, but not a minority group? Phil: They are the majority, so they are the biggest ethnic group in Vietnam, I think they make up about 90% of the population. So, if you're traveling through Vietnam, if you're in Hanoi or Saigon, if you're in Hue or Hoi An, most of the people who live in those urban metropolises are actually Kinh Vietnamese, so they make up big majority. So, the language, the Viet language is actually spoken as their primary language, the Kinh. Whereas these ethnic minorities, they have a different culture, they have different food, different clothing, and their own languages. And this historical marginalization has created poverty, extreme poverty in some cases. And I think that's something that tourism can be a big part of in terms of a solution. If it's done right, our presence can end up providing not only income for otherwise marginalized people, but also acceptance the fact that we are on a trek and staying in a homestay with an ethnic minority person means that we're not judging them on their poverty. We're seeing them as it is, and we're involved with them. And they take real pride in the fact that certainly as travelers, we are choosing those experiences and we're valuing what they offer, there's a great sense of pride. Which in turn helps to support their traditional ways because they understand the value, for instance their language or their clothing, because they know that we enjoy, and we like to learn about that. So, a long time ago, I spoke to a lot of our team who were all from two of the tribes, Muong, and Dao. And we spoke to them about what they thought were the biggest challenges here. They described health, access to employment and we set about trying to find solutions to these. Of course, if you're illiterate, the easiest solution is developed literacy easier said than done. But likewise access to hospital care, you know, I know we had a conversation, a side of our conversation today last week, talking about a young boy who was quite badly burned. Well, the problem his family had is once they arrived in the hospital, they couldn't understand the doctors nor could they fill in the basic forms to allow them to access the hospital, which is where our organization we're able to support, just simple access, access like that. So, I think in terms of tourism, it's great to know that we can come here and enjoy it, whatever type of tourist you are, but at the same time, really support locally. Kerry: Yes. Phil: I don't know if you recall. I mean, did you find that when you were doing your trekking, were you followed by local sellers? Kerry: Yes. Phil: I find that quite challenging because when I'm doing a walk, I don't want to be troubled by having, do we, do we not? Is it right to buy from a child? Should I not? There's too many thoughts when I'm trying to enjoy an experience. The simple reality is those people are selling because it's their only access point to tourism, if they can't get jobs in hotels and restaurants and they're not guides, well where do they earn money? Because they can't grow enough food to eat, so they have to earn an income. The simple solution to me is find and work with them on meaningful employment. They are the guides, they are the homestay owners, they do prepare and grow the food. And as soon as they become integral, then it works. And those sellers begin to dissipate because why would anyone want to follow you for 12 kilometers on a day long trek to maybe sell something, if they could be your guide, do the same walk anyway, and be guaranteed a wage at the end of the day. Kerry: Yeah, exactly. Phil: To me, it's simple. So, you know, my advice here is, when you come to Sapa if you've not booked something in advance, find someone local, find someone is Dao or Muong, someone who's got a good command of the language that you want to communicate in when you trek and make sure that the money is going into the right areas. Kerry: And how do you do that, how do you make sure? I mean, when you've traveled a lot as I know you and I have, you've been to places like India and been haggled and things like that. I found the haggling in Sapa very invasive, I've found it uncomfortable and I felt on the spot. And when you're roaming through that trek, and you've just got this family where children on their back and walking behind you and trying to sell, textiles and things like that. I Kind of felt like it was staged, and I'd rather get the money and go and give it to somewhere where I truly felt it was going to go to the right people. But even though they looked like the right people, they look like the wrong people to give the money to, if there's a way of saying that. And that's a shame because as you say, it is possibly their only way of connecting with a tourist and having the opportunity to earn some money that way. But I think from a tourist perspective, they are more accepting of giving back to the community in ways of buying some of the textiles like, beautiful bedspreads and pillowcases. And I've bought some beautiful pieces, etc. And I bring them home and I love them more than anything because I know the story behind them, I know where I bought it, the woman I bought it from, the village she came from. So, you know, it has much more meaning, but once again I was talking to someone else today and I think there is a perception that everything you do in Vietnam is cheap. So, you know, it's cheap, cheap copy, copy. And everybody expects that they should be getting everything for nickel and dime cheapest chips kind of thing. So, that concept fights hard with the social enterprise who is offering handmade items that are sometimes expensive. They're not out of a little factory somewhere churning out stuff, they are actually handmade. And sometimes, you know, some of the local art that I bought takes months to make one piece and I can feel the shell in the surface, I can feel every inch of that painting, etc. But I had to pay some serious Us dollars for that. And I think that concept is hard for the average tourist to bend their brain around as well. What are your thoughts on that? Phil: Well, I mean, there's two sides to the same story, really. I mean, one is if you were a local seller and you knew that on a given day, there may be four or 500 people arriving and trekking, and they all do the same trek, the same route, where would you go to sell? Of course, they gravitate towards those villages. So, if you end up going to those villages, you will have sellers. And actually, what the sellers have realized is that most of those people are on a fairly tight budget. They've realized that most of them don't really want to buy anything, I mean, why would you want to buy a big blanket and then do a trek carrying this with you. So, they've ended up kind of investing their own time in doing little bit new experiments. There's a lady, Vietnamese lady in town buys huge quantities from China of machine-made textiles. A lot of the Muong and the Dao will wander into town. They'll borrow trinkets from her, borrow them, not buy them. And then what they'll do is loiter around either in the town or in those three villages, I mentioned, and as groups of tourists come, they latch on they'll follow you in the hopes that they can sell, if they do, they'll pay the lady in Sapa and if they don't, they return the objects. Now that's a way of earning a very, very meager income, but I believe it to be negative on every front because you're promoting the purchasing of machine-made fabrics that veer away from tradition, the younger generations are therefore not learning their traditions, which is a major issue. You've also got a poor in my mind, experiential tourism, because we see them as a photo opportunity. They see us as a sales opportunity that isn't rewarding for either party. On the opposite side of that Sapa has, I believe 96 villages and hamlets, go to other areas of the country. Then, instead of seeing, as you as a sales opportunity, if you end up staying with people and eating with people, why do they need to sell to you? Their business is accommodating you; their business is guiding you, that becomes the transaction. And to me, that's more meaningful and it's absolutely available here everywhere you go to anywhere but those three, I'll say four, if you include Ta Phin, villages, that's the experience you'll get. So, we've told all the people we work with at the villages that we work with, this is your tourism industry, not mine. Foreigners who come here have certain expectations, it's important that we make sure that they feel satisfied and comfortable, but at the same time, nobody wants to be followed and harassed. So, we've worked out a simple model, and this is out there publicly. I don't mind if anyone copies it, but in the morning, we buy food from the market, but all the food is bought from locals, local guide, local drivers. We do a walk, or we stop in a local home for lunch. We cook and eat as they do, we share the food together, you continue on your stay in a local home. The following day, you eat lunch in a local home, you come back with a local driver. So, over the course of a typical trip, it could be that six, seven, eight families benefit from you coming well, if they benefit, they don't need to sell you anything. If you ask and you want it's there it's readily available top-quality things, items that they've made cherished with love hand spawn, handle woven, hemp dyed with Indigo, and then embroidered over the course of a year, it's outstanding stuff. You're not going to find that down in the touristy villages. Kerry: No, well, you'll find it, but you'll find it's made in China. Phil: There you go, yeah completely, you're absolutely right. Or printed versions of the same. Kerry: It is, yes and if there's nothing more than I get across with this podcast is trying to give the travelers some insights and educate the future traveler about what to look for. So, that as you say, they can get the experience that they want. So, if it does mean doing a bit of research, listening to this podcast, heaven forbid you know, reaching out to yourself directly, I'm going to be putting all your links in the episode notes, then, you know my job is done because I blindly walked into Sapa and walked away and it took me a couple more goes to see more, to get the benefit of more knowledge and more education. Possibly I was lazy, and I didn't do enough research, but as you say, if you do, it's there, it's available. And as extensive as the area is, I mean, you've mentioned some names of other areas in Northern Vietnam. I mean, I just adore Northern Vietnam, I just think it's that memorable, that every trip I make a point of going to somewhere new in the North. And every time I've never been disappointed. I think if we have done something well today its show them the many sides of Sapa. Phil: And we've won all sorts of awards and I don't say that lightly. I don't necessarily think we've ever tried to get those awards. We've simply had open dialogue with people I respect as friends, constantly. So, my advice generally is to kind of do your own research, find an experience that suits your needs because everybody goes to those three locations. You've got to work out whether those locations are for you. All treks and experiences can be tailored. So, ask your tour company what you would like to do in terms of distance and accommodation. We've talked about even down to food, you know, if you don't eat meat, you're a vegetarian or vegan, of course it's something that we can accommodate as a destination. I'm not talking about our organization. I think it's super important to ask your guide or your company where the money goes, because in an area where 50% of the population are registered as poor, I think it's essential. the income from tourism spreads to more than one individual, more than one company. So, have a look at the literature, have a look at their newsfeed on social media; gauge what they're like as individuals, or as an organization. Are they in tourism purely for profit, or are they involved in community development, village cleanups, education, etc. So, I think that's there if you want it. You mentioned before, it's easy in Sapa to fall into that trap of thinking, oh, well, everyone seems to be offering the same. And I come full circle a little earlier, I mentioned that the Kinh Vietnamese owned most of the tour companies. We did a social experiment some months ago, it was fascinating, we targeted a number of people throughout the town, and they ended up being categorized into three groups, Vietnamese, tribal people, as in the and the Muong and general foreigners, it doesn't matter which country you are from. And what we asked them to do while they were in this region is to come up with the first five words that they thought of while in the area. And I found it fascinating because when we asked foreigners, they came up with the words, culture, forest mountains, heritage, homestay, treks. When we asked the locals, they said, rice, Indigo, forest, Buffalo, friends, farming. There is an overlap, it's a tenuous one, but there is an overlap then the Vietnamese and it was stark. They said, Fanispan, the name of the biggest mountain in Vietnam, Sun World the name of the tour company who owned the cable car up the biggest mountain in Vietnam, Sapa Swing a destination where you can take selfies. Selfie was one of their words when they think of Sapa and the last one, I couldn't believe it, but it's true karaoke. So, what you find with that and the reason I... it's astonishing, isn't it? The reason I raised that point is because culturally you've got a group of people who were organizing tours and, in their mind,, this is a destination for cable cars, selfies, and karaoke. That's not what I want when I come to Sapa. If that's what you want, go to a generic Vietnamese agency and that's what they'll provide. If it's not what you want, you will have to dig a little deeper. Kerry: Yeah, I think Phil that digging a little bit deeper I think we should finish on that. Phil: Yeah. Kerry: That I think is the guts of it, if I can say that. Phil: Yeah, absolutely. Kerry: I think taking it on a superficial level is not the way to go, there is more to Sapa and you just have to dig a bit deeper. Phil, thank you so much for your time. Great to talk to you as always and love what you're doing and look forward to talking to you again soon. Phil: You're welcome, pleasure, thanks for your time today. Kerry: I hope you enjoy this episode, talking about Sapa and the extended region that it is. It offers just such a wide range of experiences, possibly more immersive and authentic than you may have originally thought. I'm truly grateful for Phil's time and the knowledge he shared with us today. I really had no concept of the marginalization in the area and the challenges that brings to local operators trying to make a living from tourism. Hopefully when you start planning a trip to Vietnam, you know, maybe take a bit more time to maybe dig a bit deeper in the areas Phil mentioned just to get that local experience with minority groups in their real habitat. I'll put all the appropriate links in the episode notes, please share, and let us know what you think of the program and how we can improve drop us an email or give us a shout out on our Facebook page until next time.

fdafa5c8-3d69-4212-9948-50f4089dab91Lockdown insights and upcoming travel advice Saigons Covid recovery and tourism outlook 2022 Episode 11 S3-11 Saigons Covid Recovery Outlook 00:00 / 39:15 In todays' world of media there are so many news broadcasters competing for your attention, it’s hard to know which one to trust. 
With the advent of Covid’s most devastating outbreak in Vietnam and Saigon happening in 2021, getting local insights in English has been challenging. Albeit, when many other countries around the world are opening up, it's been hard to comprehend, let alone fully appreciate the ferocity of the Delta variant as it forced Saigon into one of the strongest city lockdowns of the last 20 years.
 Michael Tatarski is my guest and in his role as Editor-in-Chief of Saigoneer, the Vietnamese culture and history website, and author of the Vietnam Weekly newsletter is well respected for his local knowledge and reporting in Vietnam and most particularly Saigon. 

I catch up with Michael just as the October 2021 ease in lockdowns is about to happen. In this episode he talks about what it’s been like during the lockdown from July to October 1st, 2021 and what aspirations and advice he has on travel coming out of the lockdown, both domestically and internationally. It's great having Michael come on the show to give everyone the insights into the behind the news stories of Saigon during this devastating time of hardship. 
 I see this as a historic recording. You may wish to listen to this again before you visit, so you can marvel at the city's resilience and determination. I expect a lot of changes and hopefully most for the good.

 Saigon is a truly vibrant and energetic city bursting with heritage that sits alongside creative eateries, secret alleys, coffee houses, river cruising, artisan shopping and roof top bars, that many a news crew were known to drink at in years gone by. 
When you go to visit Saigon, you may wish to listen to previous episodes talking about the Saigon Nightlife, and Best Districts to visit as great guides to maximise your time there. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S4-22 Trekking in Sapa A wide lens view What About Vietnam - S4-22 A wide lens view of trekking in Sapa [00:00:00] Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to What About Vietnam. Today we're going to be talking about a really interesting area called Sapa. Now if you don't know anything about Sapa, Sapa is located in the north western region of Vietnam. It is an overnight train trip from Hanoi or overnight by bus. And it's just the first point of contact I would think for people coming to Vietnam that want to have a look into the mountainous regions, the very scenic rice terraced fields of Vietnam. Sapa is definitely your first go to place. Today I'm joined with Jack Taylor and Jack's going to take us through this region, the Hoang Lien Son Mountains. And we're going to talk about trekking in this region. He's done some serious trekking and as you're going to see with his cinematography, which is the focus of his trip, you're going to get some really great handy information and tips if you are thinking of going trekking in the Sapa region. The other aspect is he talks about his interaction with the various hill tribes such as the Hmong, the Tay and the Dao. And I will include the link to his YouTube channel which is where you're going to actually see the fruits of his labour I guess. Jack's had an interesting career living abroad. He's lived in Spain for three years, China for four and Thailand for four. Now residing in Vietnam and doing some teaching. He says he decided to start a travel YouTube channel. One of the main reasons he says for doing this was he felt that a lot of the videos out there on travel are definitely featuring the travel destination but they're a lot about the person who's taking the videos rather than the area and he wants to focus on the people, the places, the food and the culture that he visits. And that's what really kind of attracted me to bring him on this show because I love his approach and I love his respect and his mutual love of Vietnam and the people. So I think for those trekkers out there this is definitely the show for you. Let's welcome Jack to the program. Thank you very much for having me. Look we're going to be talking about a couple of places in Vietnam that I've really wanted to get a little bit deeper into and that's a place called Sapa and another place called Ninh Binh. But before I jump into that, Jack tell us how you found yourself in Vietnam. Why Vietnam? [00:00:00] Kerry Newsome: Welcome to the what about Vietnam podcast? Great to have you on the show. [00:00:08] Jack Taylor: Thank you very much for having me. [00:00:10] Kerry Newsome: Look, we're gonna be talking about a couple of places in Vietnam that I've really wanted to get a little bit deeper into, and that's a place called Sapa and another place called Ninh Binh. But before I jump into that, Jack, tell us how you found yourself in Vietnam. Why Vietnam? [00:00:32] Jack Taylor: Why not Vietnam? I've been there twice now. This is my second trip. I think it's one of the best places to visit anywhere in the world that I've been. And one of the most interesting places in Asia. So I l I've lived in Asia now for the last seven years. Three years in China and four years, so four years in China, and now four years in Thailand. This most recent trip we had a long holiday, the world's opening up again. So I finally managed to get out of Thailand. And this is my first, this is my first trip outside of home that I've been to and outside of Thailand for four years now. So Vietnam was the first place where I went to. [00:01:09] Kerry Newsome: It's an easy place to fall in love with I totally get that. And I think what I appreciate most about how you see Vietnam is definitely through the eyes of your camera and your cinematography. And for everyone listening, you're going to be able to see some of the work that Jacks. Created because it inspired me to talk to him. And I'm really grateful that he's here on the show to actually talk about that filming and those experiences. Because when you do see the video, you go, oh gosh, that place is just so wow. It's just got so much. Wow. So let's start with Sapa and Yeah. Like talk, talk us through. Your journey, your setup, like how did you get prepared for Sapa and what was your kind of first experience of Sarpa? [00:02:04] Jack Taylor: So I went to Sapa after a couple of days in Hanoi. And anyone who's been in Hanoi knows it's a hectic crazy wild city. Almost anywhere is a complete change from that. So you take the "love bus", I take the love bus, a small bus with a compartment with my wife. It was a late an hour, eight hour drive up there. And When you first get there, it's actually a bit intense. The one thing that I didn't like about Sapa that much was that I stepped off the bus and people were hasling me for tours already, hiking, tours. Now this was something I'd already soughted out before. Hate to start with the negatives, but that was the first thing that happens as soon as you get off there. Once I found out way to a hotel and you get a look around the place you realize that it's a really beautiful mountain town. You can see the mountains in the distance and some of the architecture of the town's really nice as well. And I suppose in terms of my setup, my camera setup I didn't know what to expect there. In Hanoi when I made a video there, I was able to do a bit more research. I feel like there's a lots of videos and lots of pictures from Hanoi Sapa, less, slightly less so I was just walking around taking pictures, taking videos of the town center and some of the people in it. [00:03:13] Kerry Newsome: And, I'm glad you brought to everyone's attention just a little bit of that different presence of. Of Hagglers or sellers because they don't actually represent the vast majority of the population there. They're actually a very small group of people that, obviously they need to sell things to, to make money, to feed their families and all the rest of it. But I had a similar. Experience, and I found it quite aggressive. And I was quite shocked because even in places like Hanoi, you can go around the old quarter and you can go around places there, but you never get haggled or I never did to that extent. So I was, that was a bit in my face. I'm thinking, God, aren't I out here in rice fields and the hills are alive kind of thing. But yet I'm getting haggled. [00:04:05] Jack Taylor: Yeah I, like I say, I had a similar experience you'll notice as well with a lot of people. It's strange because I had the town experience before I then did the trekking experience, which we'll talk about in a minute. And my first thought when these people were trying to sell me trekking to is that they're dressed in the traditional outfits. What I now know is a Red black Hmong and at first I thought it was a bit gimmicky, but actually it's not. It is the traditional outfits that you'll see once you go out in the countryside and there's no tourists there. It's the same outfits they wear. So it's, I can imagine some people who never get out of the town maybe are overwhelmed by it or think it's a little bit gimmicky, but actually there is, that is part of the culture. So my idea changed after a while. [00:04:43] Kerry Newsome: It is authentic and you can't get over the intricacy of the costumes that they wear. Sometimes they take up to a year to actually make some of those costumes. But I did a program with a guest, oh, over a year ago now, and we talked about, trying to make sure that you get the right kind of trekking guide and one that does. Or is authentic and you know is gonna give you the best experience, but it's very hard to pick them. When you are the naive tourist and you're arriving there, how do you know which one is the. The good one or the bad one when they're all looking the same. And then when you ultimately go out and they're similarly dressed, but not quite the same attitude. So it's a tough one, but I don't wanna, I don't wanna go too much on it, but I just think it's worth mentioning and doing your homework and getting some guidance before you arrive is definitely. The way to go. So let's separate Sapa out into the town itself because you took us through on your video, a little bit more of the town than I actually spent time on. So maybe share with us a little bit of the town itself. [00:05:59] Jack Taylor: Yeah, it's it's quite a livey little town. Like I said to you earlier on. I expect it to be a really quiet, mountainous town. It's not, it's got quite a lot going on. Lots of restaurants, lots of bars, lots of coffee shops. They've got a large town square. There's, there seem to be lots of shows going on there. They're stage set up. A lot of the tourism in the area is based around the trekking or the, like the ethnic minority villages. But they have a large population within the town as well. And yeah, I thought it was it was very different her to Hanoi in the level of hecticness, but it's also, it maintains that a little bit in the town, but it's a nice contrast at least compared to Hanoi. You can look out even though. It's got, it's, the streets are pretty crazy. You can look out on these beautiful mountains and enjoy that too. [00:06:43] Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and I have two experiences which are. A little bit. The first one's a bit funny in the sense that when my husband and I went there, we kept going down wrong way streets on a bike that we hired. So we kept getting fined by the police who were asking for these amounts of money, which, once again, you know, that kind of went. Kerry, I should know better than this. It was in my very early days of traveling to Vietnam, so I was, yeah, one of the very naive ones. But we learned very quickly that there was a bit of a system going on there. And then in the township, I was desperate to get my hair washed. And this, I went to this hairdresser, and this is before like you're talking about bars and a real happening. The town, like we're talking. 2010 probably that we went. I haven't been back since and the township was really small and not much happening at all. And if you weren't into trekking then, there wasn't a lot to do. So yeah, so I went to this hairdresser and she washed my hair and truly I came out and I looked like. Phyllis Diller If you ever remember the American popular star. My hair was like in went straw. I don’t know what she washed it with, but it was like gasoline or something like that. So it was a bit scary. So getting into the trekking side of it. There is a little bit of small trekking to be done, just very close to the town, which a lot of the tourists do when they just do a very one night stay because they don't have time. So they just do this little meander around and it's quite pretty and it's not too pressing, but what I'm keen to talk. To you about is the treking that you've done quite out of Sapa and the advantages of going out and what to experience there. [00:08:41] Jack Taylor: Trekking is something that I do on a lot of my trips, I think it's probably my favorite to do thing to do when I go to a new country. And I think there's numerous reasons for that. One. You get to see the landscapes, which personally that's something that I'm really interested in seeing especially in Asia. Once you get out of the cities, there's some great mountainous. And really u unique, interesting places to visit. You also get to see and meet the real people. I think people who live in cities all around the world, there's some similarities. Okay. Hanoi is different to London. In many ways, but it's still a city. It's still people who have city life. Once you get out into the countryside, that's a completely different culture. You could argue the real people of a country. So you get to kinda see what life is like in, in a more rural setting. In this case, I went to Trekking for three days with the Red Dao tribe. A woman from the Red Dao Tribe and yeah, she taught us first of all, I was impressed by her level of English cuz she taught us a lot about the surrounding area, how they live and their history. And it was a really fascinating experience. [00:09:47] Kerry Newsome: And I think having the local minority groups. There to give you some advice, give you, and if you've got someone that can give it to you in English, whilst, you can always put a lot into hand gestures and pointing and, but having English speaking. Guides is a really big plus I think in these places, just so that you can get a little bit more information to give context to the region because the minority groups are so interesting when you get into their history and. The role that they've played in all of the wars that have gone on in Vietnam and all sorts of things, and their crafts, their markets, all of that sort of thing. So talk to us a little bit about the level of hiking that is required to get the best experience. Do you have to be, a really good hiker or trekker or, can you just be a hobby one like me? [00:10:49] Jack Taylor: I think there's something for everyone. Maybe I'm a bit of a weirdo, but I would say, I said, give us the hardest one. Give us the hardest track you've got. And once she said, once she's, we got AZ at you on the first day. Do you wanna do the easy way, the hard way? We went probably the hard way. What is it? Is it better? She's it's more beautiful. We said, give us the hard way. Like I said, I've done some treks or like I told you before I've done some treks around the world now I've done some treks in China for multiple day ones, some in Thailand usa. So I've got a bit of experience. However, I think it can still be enjoyed as a hobbyist, like if you just wanna do a half day tour. The first towns we walked to were actually within an hour or two of Sapa town center. They weren't the best towns. But it was still beautiful countryside. You could still really enjoy it. I think there's also options to do day trips to, to the villages and then go on tour walking tours around the villages as well. So if anyone listening who is maybe a bit intimidated by doing a three day trek then you, there are still options for you too. [00:11:51] Kerry Newsome: And. Like I, I'm wanting to drill down a little bit on this because I've spoken to other trekkers and never said, oh, it's only about, 25 Ks or 30 Ks in the total track. And some people might go, what the 20, 25, 30 Ks? I don't walk that in a year. So it's. It's trying to put some reality to it because you've got also weather conditions to consider it. It can get quite warm or conversely it can be quite cold. So talk to us a little bit just about, what sort of fitness level do you think and, have you gotta be an avid walker and go, be able to handle. My experience, you've gotta be able to handle hills, you've gotta have good footwear and you've gotta be able to handle that that just, that change in temperatures, et cetera. [00:12:42] Jack Taylor: Yeah, so on the track I did, I think the first day was 17 kilometers. The second day was 25 and then the final day was 13. So it was pretty intense track, especially that second day. Cuz the second day there was this huge valley. And in the video I'm currently making now I'm doing a more focus video on the trekking, which you haven't seen yet. But there's one day we climb up this giant hill. And then we're already pretty tired. And then we go where we at? Hiking to today. She points through the valley and it [00:13:12] Kerry Newsome: Oh no. [00:13:13] Jack Taylor: and we're like, oh, we're going over there. So that was she didn't tell us that until we got to the top of the hill. It was already too late at that point. But I would say on the trek I did, you gotta be a bit fit. The thing I found that was the most difficult like I say, I bring my cameras everywhere with me, so I've got a whole bag [00:13:31] Kerry Newsome: A lot of gear. [00:13:32] Jack Taylor: My wife will carry that one and I carry both of our clothes, so her clothes and my clothes. So I had this too big of a bag really. And over three days hiking that much, it really dug into my shoulders. So it was my shoulders more than anything that I had trouble with. Don't do it in flip flops is my first piece of advice. Bring at least a pair of trainers. I'd known this is one of the reasons I came to Vietnam and to Sapa, was to do the hiking. So I brought a nice big pair of hiking boots. So if you're gonna do the more extreme end, I'd be prepared. Bring plenty of water that kind of thing. And yeah, I'd probably done a, I've probably would try and get some experience beforehand if you're gonna do the three day one. But like I say, there's options for one day. There's options for two day, that kind of thing. [00:14:16] Kerry Newsome: Yeah. And like I think that's really great advice on the shoe wear, because I've seen some amazing. Options of people that have got off those buses and they're gonna do a two day hike. And when I look at their footwear, I just go, oh, are you kidding me? There is nowhere, there's no traction on them. They've got no concept of the slippery slidy places that they're going to be going and, yeah, crazy isn't it? [00:14:46] Jack Taylor: Yeah. The, it reminds me the first trek I ever did was actually probably the longest one, and I was probably in the worst shape. I was in Columbia, in Latin, in South America, and I did it. I was like, yeah, whatever. I'll do it in these. Plimp soul shoes and I came back, it was five days, I think. I couldn't walk for a week afterwards. Everyone that did the trek, they went on to the next place. I was like, I need to stay in this hostel for a couple of days and just relax. It's the same, it's the same in Vietnam. [00:15:11] Kerry Newsome: Yeah, absolutely. And like I've even done, small climbs, et cetera, when you do Marble Mountain near Danang and places like that, that if you don't, some people try and do it in thongs and I go, Like marble, when it's wet, it's slippery. Like you can just so easily do an ankle or, do some damage that then wrecks your whole holiday. So a really good point. [00:15:39] Jack Taylor: and if you're doing it, if you're doing it out there in the Sapa countryside, if you twist an ankle that you've got a hike, either way, you know you're gonna have to get yourself back to a main road somehow, somewhere. And that wouldn't be fun. [00:15:52] Kerry Newsome: No, and depending on who you've hired as your Trekking guide or the company that you are dealing with, likewise them having someone to, come and get you back where you know they've gotta take on the rest of the group. All these little kind of things can go wrong if you don't put a little bit of thought into it. And some people are just so casual about it. It amazes me that they just take. Thought about it so lightly and not think, gee, I better wear, and even the size of their bags I think, you, you're not gonna take that wheely bag. Like they'll be wheeling a small carry on bag. And I'm thinking are you kidding me? Yeah. So [00:16:38] Jack Taylor: Hundred, a hundred percent. You couldn't have done that on this track. Yeah. It would ditch that bag. That bag would've gone. [00:16:43] Kerry Newsome: Yeah, for sure. Talk to us a little bit about your accommodation during the treking. You've obviously stayed overnight in some home stays. [00:16:53] Jack Taylor: Yeah. I was surprised by the quality of them actually. The houses were really quite nice. The village it's very rural. So don't get me wrong, it's not a modern place, but like the quality of the houses, they were well built. We had a bed. I wasn't expecting a bed actually. Like I say, I've done some treks in other places, even northern Thailand. And usually when you stay with the hill tribes there it's a wooden house, which it was here as well, but it. Very much like on stilts. Like it very much looks like it's made in the middle of the jungle and you're sleeping on a mat on the floor. So that's what I'd expected. And then we got there and it was a fairly comfortable bed. It was a bit hard and but that, I can't complain. The quality of the house was nice. The food they cooked was absolutely delicious. So that was probably the highlight. They cooked food, all of it made from local ingredients, cuz they're agricultural people. They, it's, everything was grown locally. I remember they had spring rolls, some stir fried beef lots of vegetables. That was absolutely delicious. And probably the most unique thing about the Red Dao is they do this herbal bath. I dunno if you've heard about the herbal baths. [00:18:00] Kerry Newsome: Oh yeah. [00:18:01] Jack Taylor: And it was again, This was a lot nicer than I was expected. So we got the accommodation and then you offered it costs a little bit more. I can't remember exactly how much it was but it wasn't too expensive and it was definitely worth doing. And they run this herbal bath. I'm not entirely sure what was in the herbal bath, but it's in like a barrel. It's not a bath, it's in a barrel. So me and my wife, we had two separate barrels. It was filled with hot water and it was one of the best things you can do after a long day's hike. When you got all that sweat and all that grime on you, you're in. I wouldn't want it to, I wouldn't want think about how dirty the water would get once out once we'd been in there. But it was one of the best things to do and relax after the hike. [00:18:40] Kerry Newsome: Yeah. Now I've had a guest on the show who traveled around Vietnam with social enterprise headset looking for experiences. Where social enterprise played a role and she found herself in Sapa and in a Red Dao village. And she took that bath and she described it equally as pleasurable and as relieving for those sore muscles. After doing that trek it's interesting just about the accommodation. I get very mixed views about. Home stays an accommodation in those remote areas. Some people say they're really great and very obviously homely, but comfortable enough. And then there's some people who just can't see themselves staying that it's just beyond their comfort zone. So it's interesting. Do I dare [00:19:34] Jack Taylor: that. [00:19:34] Kerry Newsome: ask about toilets? Can you tell, are they western toilets? [00:19:39] Jack Taylor: It did have a Western toilet. Again, I was surprised about that it had western toilet. It did have a shower room, so if you don't wanna do the herbal bath, it had a whole shower room. Yeah I was surprised of the quality and, but I'm the kind of person. Who is quite comfortable with bare bones. Like I say, one of the things I like doing about the hiking is you get to go experience local cultures. The, my only question is if you'd stayed in the non-home stay house, would it have had all that? My guess is probably not. My guess is this was made up for tourists for their comfort zone. So this is Tain Village and I can find you the link for the Homestay I stayed so you can attach it at the bottom, but this one was very nice. This one was very nice. But I also think there's kind of two types of people when it comes to backpacking around Vietnam or other places in Asia. It's some people who. To go there because they can probably afford to places that are more comfortable and maybe more luxurious than what they're used to. It's obviously cheaper than backpacking around Europe, right? If you're backpack around Europe, you're probably staying in cheaper hotels, basic stuff. But if you go to Vietnam you can pay the same price and have. Like really luxurious places. I think there's that kind of person and there's the kind of person more like me who likes the wild side of it, who likes to see the things that you wouldn't be able to see in Europe or other places around the world. And that's what you'll get when you're staying in the villages. Like it is. It is very rural. I don't I can imagine some people, I imagine my family. If they visited, they'd be out their comfort zone. So it is something to make sure you would be comfortable with beforehand. But to me personally, it's one of the most fascinating things you can do. [00:21:20] Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and I think you're right, and I've got both in my audience, so I've got some people who, yeah, they can handle a little bit of raw a little bit of, discomfort to experience that. Authenticity within a region. And then there's some that just say, no that's not me. And, horses for courses like that's fair enough. But what I wanna do in the show, in, in what I do with people is I try and give them the reality side of it, not the fluff and bubble I want to talk about. So you go there with expectations that can be met, so you don't go there with Unrealistic expectations and then get disappointed or the other way around. Talk to us a little bit about how long you think is a good stay there? If people are planning to do this, what would you recommend as far as how long they should give themselves to, to have a really good experience? [00:22:16] Jack Taylor: I would say possibly even a night in Sapa town is enough and a homestay. So I would say minimum two nights, minimum. Two nights. If you are gonna do the treking part, like I say, mine was three days, two nights. So I think I was there four nights total. Like everywhere in Vietnam, I wish I had more time. I would've loved to have stayed in other home stays and there was some things in the town that I didn't check out. Mount Fanispan is one of the, one of the highlights there that I didn't actually have time for. So you could stay longer. I would say minimum two. Before moving on to either Ha Giang or maybe back to Hanoi. [00:22:55] Kerry Newsome: And did you? Did you choose a particular time of year that you wanted to go to Sapa? I'm thinking about your cinematography side of it. Did you say, no, I want to go, when it's this time of year because of [00:23:10] Jack Taylor: My job as an English teacher, so I'm an English teacher in Thailand, so it was when I got the holiday is when is how I decided it. However one thing to note I went after the harvest and the good thing about that, about trekking in that time was it was quite nice, whether it wasn't too hot. On one of the days it was cloudy, which was quite nice. It was nice and cool. The other days it was a bit sunny, which was also nice. It wasn't too hot though. If you come earlier in the year though, you can see the rice patties actually growing. So it's nice and green and as the people working in the fields, so especially what I've seen from a lot of photographers and from some other people who've been there making videos if you go at that time of year, you get to see For people work in the fields in the traditional outfits, and that's must be a beautiful site to see. I didn't get to see that. However, I think the Treking part of it was just that little bit better. Because it was mostly dry, but even I stepped into a couple of puddles and then I had my up to my ankle in covered in dirt. If you've gone closer to the rainy season, I think you're gonna get a lot grimier. It's, the trekking probably gonna be that bit more difficult and I've heard that there can be leeches. So you have to be careful. The leeches [00:24:25] Kerry Newsome: Yeah. So what month did you go? [00:24:28] Jack Taylor: I was beginning of October is when I went. [00:24:31] Kerry Newsome: Beginning of [00:24:32] Jack Taylor: And there was no leeches. [00:24:33] Kerry Newsome: bonus. [00:24:35] Jack Taylor: Yeah. [00:24:36] Kerry Newsome: So is there anything else you'd like to add for everyone listening just about trekking, Sapa would like, to make sure that we get everything out there in, in our chat. So is there anything I haven't mentioned or should have mentioned? [00:24:51] Jack Taylor: Yeah. One thing that I think might be interesting that we haven't mentioned is some of the wildlife that you'll see out when you're hiking. So the main one is the water buffalo. I'd never seen water buffalo that up close before. I've lived in Southeast Asia for four years now, but there we, there's so many water buffalo they live. They live and they work in the fields. And I was a little nervous at first because I remember the first time I came to Vietnam I was doing a bike tour in Hoi An and we, as we were passing the water buffalo, the guide I think he was taking the mick outta me, he told me that the water buffalo, they don't like the white people cuz we smell like milk. We smell like milk. And they don't like milk. They only like Vietnamese smells. I think he said they smell a foot. So he said, you gotta be careful around the water buffalo. Now our guide [00:25:39] Kerry Newsome: no, that's terrible. Oh, [00:25:42] Jack Taylor: cuz I was walking past the, we had to walk pretty closely by them and they get scared, right? So they begin to run away. So I was like, this guy told me that they don't like the smell of us. And she said, no, that's not true. He's pulling your leg. [00:25:53] Kerry Newsome: Oh, that's [00:25:53] Jack Taylor: on top of that, [00:25:54] Kerry Newsome: I'm gonna share that one. That's excellent. [00:25:57] Jack Taylor: On top of that our guide may wander. She got worried at one point. There was a big snake. We just missed it. It s slivered down the hill. But she said it was about this big. I'm, I know about 10 centimeter thick. She didn't really say how long, but it was in the grass and that's s slivered off, so you gotta be a little bit careful. She said some of them are poisonous, but most part they're okay. [00:26:19] Kerry Newsome: I wish you wouldn't have told me about the snake bit. Now I might have to cut that out because like I'm terrified of reptile. So I yeah that's good to know for everyone listening. And especially good for me to know in case I wanna do that trek. In the future. Beware of reptiles. Good to know. Jack, that's really wonderful. Thank you for sharing with us. I'm going to make sure that I put all the links to your fabulous footage that you've done. I really love your work, so we'll make sure that everyone can see that. And yeah. Just want thank you for being on the show [00:26:56] Jack Taylor: Thank you.

a49788fb-0cb3-4201-bdcd-7bee9e2f767bExploring the threaded history of textiled in Mai Chau What About Vietnam - Series 2 - 5 Explore Mau Chau and its threaded history in textiles Kerry Newsome: Welcome to what about Vietnam today I am talking to the lovely Cynthia Mann, and I'm going to be talking to her about a recent trip that she did to a place called Mai Chau. Now Mai Chau is one of those places a little off the grid about three hours out of Hanoi, but it is absolutely wonderful experience if you are looking for a place in Vietnam that can take you back in time in some ways as its features the minority groups; the Hmong people and the Thai people. Cynthia has a lot to do with these ethnic communities as she operates a business called Future Traditions and has a showroom in Hanoi which I strongly recommend that you pop into. Using the traditional weaving and textiles of all the Hmong people and the Thai people she's been able to create the most amazing contemporary designs in homewares and fashion She is definitely a person in the know and with lots of years of experience in the area. She was able to join us today from Hanoi and tell us a little about her trip. Please welcome her to the show …...welcome Cynthia to the program. Cynthia Mann: Thank you, nice to be here. Kerry Newsome: Great to have you on the show. Look today I am going to be picking your brains about a trip that you did recently to one of my favorite places call Mai Chau. Tell us a little more about where Mai Chau is, where it's actually located and how you get there just so we can appreciate where it is on the map. Cynthia Mann: One of the nice things about Mai Chau is that it's actually like a drive from Hanoi, so it doesn't require flights itself, it’s maybe three hours. Its also quite a good road to get there, so you can leave in the morning and be there for lunch. It's in the mountains with beautiful valleys, it's home to some minority villages in the area. The Mai Chau town itself is quite small it's got a really nice kind of “old world” feeling and community there: there are some beautiful waterfalls and scenery. It's just a really fantastic place to get away from it all, and I don't really know one person there. I mean you can jump on a bicycle and ride around the villages very easily, and it's a lot less physically demanding than Sapa, but yes absolutely not as touristy, which is part of its appeal. Kerry Newsome: Exactly and I think you made a good point about referring it to Sapa. I mean Sapa kind of sits very high on the tourist map but Mai Chau traditionally hasn't, and I'm not sure why. Because like you, I found it fascinating. I went there about three years ago, and I had to ask my travel agent to create this tour for me because you know they said not many people know about Mai Chau . I went well, I'm going, I want to experience it. So where did you stay, and why did you choose the place you stayed? Cynthia Mann: Traditionally I started going to Mai Chau in about 2008 and there really was only one or two Homestays and a hotel called an Echo Lodge. And now there are two Echo Lodges, one on the road, and then there is just a beautiful big one. Yes, and now there's quite a lot of different places to stay but this is where I stay at Mai Chau is a place called “Hide Away”, and it's actually about fifteen to twenty kms outof Mai Chau town, on the edge of this huge hydroelectric reservoir. So very beautiful, one of the biggest in Southeast Asia, so you've got all the options as in kinds of water activities like kayaking and things like that. And we really went after lockdown, as we just wanted to have a bit of a getaway and feel like we were human again. Kerry Newsome: Escape the world. Cynthia Mann: Escape the world. To put it in context, in a sense you know that during the lock down I was locked in the house by myself, so I was really a bit desperate to talk to people and that was partly why it was fantastic. To be there with friends and enjoy their company and wide open spaces. Kerry Newsome: Now you mentioned that the Mai Chau place you stayed at was a Homestay. Cynthia Mann: No, the place we used to stay would be the only option, but now this was kind of a four-star kind of hotel Kerry Newsome: A four-star, okay and what would the average night stay there be just roughly for our guests to understand price-wise. Cynthia Mann: That's a good question can't remember because we got a special deal and I think it was maybe it was about a $100USD for the 2 nights. Kerry Newsome: A hundred U.S. Cynthia Mann: Around that much I think we'll have to check on that one and so. Kerry Newsome: And as a list of things to do around Mai Chau what would be like your top three things to do, if you base yourself at the Hideaway what would you do? Cynthia Mann: If you've never been to Mai Chau town, going to Mai Chau town is essential and spend some time in their kind of tourist villages there, because it's where their ethnic type villages do some weaving. They have a lot of textiles which is my first love as you know. Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. Cynthia Mann: I would go on one of the little boat cruises. Actually sounds a bit glamorous, it's not, its kind of one of those you know, pop ups! Very basic. You know the ones. Kerry Newsome: That’s a good point. Cynthia Mann: It was March and it was very pretty particularly just before sunset. So you go down the reservoir, and then we had dinner at this amazing dinner at this fish farm. So we cruise as the light shadows us which is gorgeous. It's a bit like it is at Ha Long Bay, you know you've got these amazing kinds or rocks coming out of the water. And then on the west side we cruise while heading into the sunset which is absolutely stunning. It was really beautiful and the dinner was incredible. We were the only guests. Their job was cooking all this amazing array of fish dishes , all sorts of different one’s, barbecued with various flavourings, and it was just delicious. Kerry Newsome: Can you explain a little about that fish restaurant because if I got it right it's a fish farm that sits in the middle of the lake. Cynthia Mann: Yeah. Kerry Newsome: And now they built a restaurant around it is that right? Cynthia Mann: In the middle yeah; it's basically a series of farms that supply to the area and I think they also send it up to Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh. It's very locally driven. You would most probably not hear about it, but you get some table you can sit at, and they just bring out the food Kerry Newsome: So glad that's happened because when I was there, they were building it and I actually walked away with a piece of the bamboo that they were using to build the structure with. I planted things in it back at home when I got home. God knows how I got it through customs. I knew all the plans that they had to create this restaurant so it's great to hear that they've done that. I'm sure tourists coming into the region are going to love it. Now I want to get back to something that I know you're going to be able to speak to everyone a lot about. And that's about the ethnic communities and about those textiles that we talk about that you offer in your boutique- Future Traditions, through your handcrafts; tell us a bit about that. Cynthia Mann: Sure. Sure, when I was down there, I actually also did a bit of business I have some textile producers down there. So because I met with them while I was there it is predominantly ethnic and minority communities down there. Hmong and Thai. They do all the famous embroidery, the Thai weaving is famous and it’s incredibly affordable to buy. Kerry Newsome: Do they still hang the bedspreads on the lawn? Cynthia Mann: Yeah, they do. Kerry Newsome: I bought one. Cynthia Mann: They actually made those from recycled Hmong skirts and not actually Thai at all. I love the beautiful Hmong gathered skirts that are made from a number of different pieces featuring appliqué and embroidery, and they construct those, and then make them into this kind of blankets sheets and bedspreads whatever you want to call them. And that's one of the interests I have. But it is no longer hand made because it's cheaper for them to buy in from China and then just to sew the skirt, because for Hmong traditional woman's clothing can take forever, and they could be doing other things. Like rice harvesting. Roasting food and other things. It can take a year for them to make a new piece of clothing, which they usually do, so everybody in the family will get a new set of clothing for the new year. For TET. They now have a quicker and cheaper way to do it. Which on one hand is great, right? Because it’s cheaper, and it’s quicker and everybody will get more time to do other things and perhaps potentially earn more money? But it also means that those integral cultural traditional skills are being diminished. So one thing I do to bring back to the boutique is to take work to a couple of ladies in one of the villages outside on the Province border, who I know still do the hand stitching, applique & ribbon of which is a traditional form of the skirts. They add the red black and white, then do a bit of a floral through it, and then the black and white little squares are added on, because now you can find a similar layer of it, from China, that's machine-made. But it’s just not quite the same. The traditional way is one of the things that I first fell in love with, the first time I went to the Hmong villages. Over time I've worked with some of the ladies that make it, and I've given them fabric in different color schemes so that they then produce a version for me that fits in with some color scheme that I'm working on for the next collection Kerry Newsome: That's really great to know. Cynthia Mann: During that time I use some of those bedspreads or recycled old skirts and infuse some into my signature jackets with antique fabric which is all right and I try to make it work. As often as I can, I go to Paco village and purchase fabrics in combinations I can incorporate into my designs. Kerry Newsome: So, just too to recap on where that situated the Paco village that that you referred to is actually kind of at the back door of where I was staying last time. So that Eco log that set up on the hills you can actually go down the back and through to the smaller villages. Cynthia Mann: Through the back of little villages that are set up between, that's different. Kerry Newsome: It was pretty basic. Not much is there but good to see. Cynthia Mann: Yeah, Paco village itself is actually on the canal. A village, which has a local market there on a Sunday morning. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, I didn't get to. Cynthia Mann: It's kind of like a triangle between the town, where the Paco village is. Kerry Newsome: How long would you suggest a person should plan a stay there, is that a day trip? Or is it an overnight trip, two or three days, what would you recommend? Cynthia Mann: Definitely an overnight if you want to go to the Paco market which is lovely really lovely it's a very small market. Kerry Newsome: Yes, I have heard. But only open on a Sunday. Cynthia Mann: You need to go there early, be there by seven thirty, eight o'clock as it's over by ten. And I would stay, ideally stay two nights. If you start like at the Eco Lodge in the valleys behind much of a Mai Chau Town. Then you can hire a bicycle and just cycle around and into different villages and you know talk to the locals, and it's a really lovely valley to explore and it's really easy to do Kerry Newsome: Just to clarify on the timing you went in, we think around about June. Cynthia Mann: Yeah. Kerry Newsome: Because you and I just love the heat. I like recommending for people the best time to visit. I went in March and it was actually quite cool. Cynthia Mann: Yes. Kerry Newsome: So, I was wrapped up. It was quite chilly but you went in June. When would you think are the good months to go from a timing perspective? Cynthia Mann: Autumn in the north is probably best. Anywhere in the north is probably the best season - starting September October November. Kerry Newsome: September, October, November. Cynthia Mann: And once you get it in December January it can be quite cold, and for February can be quite cold. Tends not to be as humid there which is nice and especially for tourists who are not used to it. When we were there and were chatting with some friends online and they were saying better you're enjoying the cool weather down there. And I looked away and it was actually the same temperature, and it was thirty-nine degrees. But in Hanoi, it was no different in temp, it's not as high, or as cool as Sapa, but it tends not to be as humid, so for a lot of people that's a big relief. Kerry Newsome: I think any time in the middle of the year anywhere in Vietnam is pretty warm let’s face it. Cynthia Mann: And once you enter towards the end of July, we're just starting the rainy seasons. It will be more overcast, and then you will have rain. On the other hand the rain cools everything down. On Sunday we had this huge downpour and an old friend of mine and I just whistled around on bikes in the cool, it was like…. WOW... I haven't felt this for a long time, it was just fabulous. Kerry Newsome: Delicious especially after lockdown. Cynthia, it was great to chat. Cynthia Mann: Absolutely. Kerry Newsome: I just wanted to say thanks again and we will be chatting soon. Cynthia Mann: Excellent. Be safe everybody and look after yourselves and looking forward to seeing you in Hanoi, Vietnam at some stage in the not too distant future.

d32f2f19-abc1-420d-9521-8b3cf274c91fHoliday and save money on dentistry What About Vietnam S2-10 - Vietnam dental holiday Save money on dental while on your holiday Intro: What About Vietnam, a podcast with Kerry Newsome. The series where Kerry talks with travelers about their experiences and adventures; find out more about Vietnam from the people who have actually been there. What about Vietnam? Whether it’s adventure, exploring the culture and cuisine, shopping, or just soaking up the sun; let Kerry and her travelers paved the way for a magical holiday in Vietnam. What About Vietnam? Kerry: Xin Chao and welcome to What About Vietnam. Today we're going to be talking about dentistry. Now, who would have thought you'd be talking about dentistry on a travel podcast talking about Vietnam. So, I've added the session in because it's still a very important experience that you may want to investigate when you do visit Vietnam. Kelly McCarthy is my guest, she's a good friend, and she has been traveling to Vietnam over the past 15 years, as it happens, in the past six years, those visits have included a visit to a dentistry surgery in Ho Chi Minh City. She has had extensive work done and her son and her husband likewise. When she compares quotes, she's going to be able to tell you about the massive savings that she's been able to make. And just speak to a little bit about the great experience that she's had with the people that look after her in these surgeries and just the whole end to end communications and everything. You're going to learn a lot about what you could save in dentistry in Vietnam. And I mean, who knows, you may want to use the savings to pave the way for a fabulous holiday in Vietnam. Please welcome Kelly to the program. Let's start with what made you choose Vietnam as an option for you and your family to have some dentistry work. Kelley: Well, for us, it wasn't a case of, we originally went out searching for dentistry in Vietnam. My husband and I were on holidays in Ho Chi Minh City in 2009, I was six months pregnant with my child. And suddenly, we're at dinner and the husband says "Ooh" I've hurt my tooth, something's gone wrong, only for us to discover he'd broken his tooth. And I'm thinking as men do with any form of pain, it's never just slightly sore, it's excruciating. So with that, I had to sort of rummage around and try and find somewhere that could attend to this. We're looking at two days out from Christmas, so I'm thinking, "Oh, here we go, everything shut down for Christmas. He's going to have to fly back to Australia with this, he's going to be in pain and I'm going to have to suffer all of the above." So, I ventured out and found actually a dentist that could attend to the problem for us and it was on Boxing Day they could attend to us because they were closed on Christmas Day but Open Boxing Day, funnily enough. So, we ventured to the dentist, thinking we were in for numerous amounts of dollars being overseas, being a tourist, they'd take advantage of it, and everything going through our minds, but we still had to attend. They fixed my husband's tooth in speed, the place was amazing and the cost, I think we walked out of there paying $200 or something to rebuild his tooth. Kerry: 200 Australian dollars? Wow! Kelley: 200 Australian dollars and the tooth was completely rebuild on Boxing Day. Kerry: Wow! Kelley: So, that was when we realized that dentistry was an option, so with that, then I delved further into it. Kerry: Okay, just let me stop there for a minute. So, we're in Ho Chi Minh City; when we think about being in a foreign country, we're thinking possibly there could be some language barriers. How did you find that? Your walking in there with your husband, I guess he's kind of holding his jaw, there's pain written all over his face, so that kind of gets through the language barrier fairly quickly. But, how did you go with managing the language barrier? Was there a lot of people there that spoke English? What was the environment that you we greeted with there? Kelley: When we arrived, they were absolutely amazing. I was totally astonished at the level of professionalism, the level of hygiene, and also how innovative they were. It was like I'd stepped into the future, to be totally honest with you. They were doing things far more advanced than what I'd seen here in Australia. So before they even look at you, it was straight to MRI, not x-ray, MRI and dollars are just ticking over in my head. Well, fortunately, that actually came out to be a 25 US dollar charge for an MRI on his jaw to see what was wrong. The language barrier, there was no problems with that, everyone spoke fluent English. They even actually had an Australian and a Canadian dental nurse in there who was studying and was doing some time in the surgery. So, there was literally no communication issues whatsoever. Kerry: Ah, fantastic. So, like paperwork obviously, financially, it's more than affordable. So, kind of did that start the journey for you because I know you've done a lot since then, tell us about that. Kelley: That sort of put me on the road of what I was wanting to do because I had throughout my pregnancy numerous problems with my teeth. And so, we returned back to Australia after that and then I had problems with my teeth after the pregnancy, which then I thought, "Well, I'll go and get a quote here to see what's going, you know, look for this." And the cost was through the roof; it was actually $46,000 Australian to have my teeth removed. Kerry: Sorry, just say that slowly again, were you getting a hole new mouth with that. Kelley: Because all of the enamel had cracked off my teeth, it was basically down to the resort of false teeth, which at 40 years old was not going to be an option. I didn't really want to be gummy, so I then went down path of crowns. So, in Australia it was a $46,000 cost for those crowns, which then just threw it right out of the ballpark. So with that, I said to my husband, "Well, we had such a great experience when we were in Vietnam maybe this is an option I can look at." So, we traveled to Vietnam usually once or twice a year, so I started researching dentists and then when we went over there, I actually then visited the dentist, just the one that I'd seen had good reviews. Kerry: And this one now different from the dentist that you saw with your husband back in 2009. So, you found another dentist. Kelley: It was, I found another dentist, not to say that this first dentist wasn't great, they were amazing. Kerry: No, understood. Kelley: It just opened up my eyes and then provided to me with what's out there, so that was why I looked into it further. And to be honest with you, I actually came across a lady in a day spa when I was over there one day and she'd given me the particular dentist that she had been to because I saw her teeth were amazing and I commented on them and she said, "I'll let you in a little secret. They're all crowns, I had them done here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah," went on, gave me some details, and then that was when I started looking into the particular dentist that I now regularly visit. So, that was where that went to. And then I started communicating with them and trying to build up a bit of a rapport, a bit of an understanding, everything was done by email. Every email was professional, and then I decided on one of our visits to go and check the surgery and see what I thought of it and that was when I became basically sold on the whole idea. So, I sort of sat with them, they did quotes, did MRIs. Once again, another place that did MRIs, they did quotes, they gave me a fixed quote. And then that was when we made the arrangements for me to return to Vietnam on another occasion to go through the process. Kerry: Right, so, this kind of started a journey, I guess, didn't it? Kelley: It did, definitely. Kerry: Because obviously, it isn't a one hit wonder that kind of work. Can you tell us, like, what was roughly the saving? Now, if we were talking about $46,000, was it half, was it 75%...? Kelley: This one is going to shock you. Like I said, I'll reiterate $46,000 in Australia. And when I got the quote from Vietnam, it was 5,500 Australian dollars. Kerry: Oh, my God. Kelley: There really wasn't any second thoughts after that because that little bit of [inaudible 10:02], Scrooge McDuck in all of us where there's a savings... Kerry: I would have been smiling already. Kelly: Yeah, it was like I can get a great holiday, save all this money, as well as get my teeth done, so I... Kerry: But what comes with that, and I think sometimes the next question on everyone's lips is, but you've got to keep going back and forth to Vietnam. Now, you, and I wouldn't find that a tragedy, I mean, that would be great, what a terrific excuse. But I guess for some people, depending on where they are in the world so, you know, coming back and forth could be an additional cost they have to add to it. And so, just talk about maybe how long your visits and kind of walk us through that journey from yes, lets go start to kind of finish. Kelley: Okay. So, that definitely is something to consider, and that would be something you would need to consider depending on what you need to have done. For example, I know if you have to have implants done, you basically have to go to the dentist, you have the implant socket placed into the bone of your jaw, and then they won't actually put any teeth or anything into that socket for three months, so that is a definite consideration, if that's the path you're going down. If you're not going down that path and it was something like myself, from the quotation had we discussed it, they told me to allow 10 days. Now that was not 10 working, that was 10 days, so they work across the weekend if needed for you to come in and have that dentistry done. So, I then just thought, I would do it smartly and I booked an extra couple of days, purely for I was traveling by myself, so it was some peaceful mommy time. And also, it was just to put a little contingency in there just in case anything went wrong. So I booked my trip for 12 days, I had a full mouth of crowns all but three. And in that I also had three of those were bridging crowns. So, for anyone that doesn't know what a bridging crown is, that's where I actually had teeth missing in a couple of spots and they actually crown one tooth but have a false tooth attached to that, that sits in that socket where your original tooth would have been, so it gives you a full appearance of full teeth. So, I had basically every tooth but three crown, and from start to finish, it took seven days. So, the process was, when I landed, I let them know when I was landing, and they actually arranged and send someone to pick me up. That was part of the journey as well. So, if somebody is out there thinking about traveling by themselves, like I did, I was comfortable with catching taxis or transport, but some other people might not be. So the dentist that I go to, they will arrange to pick you up, they can also arrange accommodation for you if you're totally unfamiliar with the area and that goes on a budget level of what you can afford as well. So, they brought recommendations of that. So, it was kind of like a package for me, but after being a comfortable traveler and traveling to Vietnam quite a few times, I was totally okay with organizing my accommodation and everything. So yeah, I was met with them so that sort of ease you a little bit for somebody who is worried about it. They picked me up, they said, we'll see you this afternoon if you're okay with that. I said, yeah, that's fine., so I went in that first afternoon, they just took further MRIs just to check that nothing had moved from the six months previously. Then they talked about what they were going to do across each couple of days. And there is two days that are quite intense, and they are the days of you're having crown work, where they shave your teeth down and prepare all the bone and everything. So, it can be quite intense for two days of that, but with that, if you are having crowns, don't be afraid because they don't send you out with little shark's teeth. They actually made temporary molds of your original teeth to walk out the door with so you are totally comfortable. I'm the person that's not afraid of the dentist and all one of the days because it was a lot of work. I will admit for anybody, I was a little bit overwhelmed on that day. However, if you've got a traveling partner or whatever, it was probably just because I didn't know realistically what I was in for, but if anyone's interested, I can always be happy to chat to them afterwards and give them a little bit of what you're really in for. Pain-wise, I was pretty much pain-free. It was probably just more of an emotional thing for me, more than anything but pain wise, they also provide you with scripts to... Kerry: Manage the pain. Kelley: To get any pain medication and in fact, now, since my return prior to COVID in Vietnam, so it was actually 12 months ago, this time I would have been there. They actually now have got a pharmacist downstairs, so you don't even have to go to a pharmacy now to find your medication. They give you the script, go downstairs, it's filled within the building, so, it's really quite helpful. So, depending on your work, but they will give you a guide of how long you need to be there. Like I said, mine was roughly, they said 10 days, it was all completed within seven. So, quietly I had a couple of days up my sleeve, which was quite nice. Kerry: Yeah. Kelley: But it's a great experience, it really is for dentistry and the whole time you're sitting in the seat, you're thinking I've just saved $40,000. So, that keeps you quite motivated. Kerry: And I think we need to also speak to the concerns that some people may have is just around the safety side of it, the products that they use, like the quality of the products and just you know, long-term management like, do you go back to Australia and then get an Australian dentist to, I don't know, keep a check on them or something like that. Talk to us a little bit more about what you finished because you didn't finish with the crowns, did you? You went on to get... Kelley: No, I finished with all the crowns and they gave me the full cosmetic smile. So, however I have had other family members have other dentistry work. For example, my mum had dentures done, my husband's had laser whitening and had numerous fillings done over there. And I had even taken my ten-year-old son over there last year to have some dentistry work on that was quoted at three and a half thousand dollars here. And it arose from the fact that it was an error in dentistry here. The dentist, I go to didn't really want to touch on being a young child and not knowing the repercussions of it. However, I just asked my dentist here in Australia to provide me with the x-rays and the report of what was going on with his teeth. And I actually sent that through to my over there and they agreed to do my son. So, my son and I went over, and they fixed up his tooth. So, the tooth here was quoted at three and a half thousand dollars to save a truth, fall out in two years’ time. And so, I took the opportunity to go over to the dentist, have a little bit of a holiday one-on-one with my son. We went over for a week, our accommodation, and airfares because I live in Perth. So, chances of getting in and out of Asia are really easy, we did everything on a budget airline just to outweigh costs. And we traveled over there, had a great week together accommodation, airfare, spending money was about $2,000 and his tooth that was quoted here in Australia for three and a half thousand dollars, cost me $105 Australian. So, we had a holiday and everything for less than the tooth. Kerry: So, you know, everything is kind of pointing to me to some real level of confidence that you have, like confidence in their ability, workmanship, safety, communication. Because I know when I book a dentist here and as I've told you, like once every 10 years I go, like I hate the dentist at any time, but I think dentistry moving to this role that you're describing as being a little bit more than just your average walk in the door and they don't give a hoot thing. Like if they're picking you up from the airport and they've obviously got some serious care factor going there. So, I mean safety wise, do we give them a 10 out of 10? Kelley: I would definitely, give them a 10 out of 10. They will even like anywhere when you're traveling, you always have the risks of bags snatchers or anything. And that's in any travel, you always have your cautions but they even... if you're uncomfortable with traveling to and from the dentist yourself, if you explained that to them, they would arrange for you to have a driver or an Uber or something picked you up every day and drive you to the door. When you get to the door, they've got security at their door and that's just to stop hawkers coming in. It's not for any you know hold ups or anything like that, it's just for hawkers. But safety wise[inaudible20:29] for starters, so it is safe as anything. Hygiene is amazing. Everything I feel supersedes Australia. The products, so all my crowns from Switzerland, they're Swiss crowns, they do their training. He travels all over the world training staff and learning the most innovative products. I'll give you an example so, I've had my crowns now for, I think it's coming up six years. I returned to Vietnam last year when I took my son over and there was just one of my teeth that I wasn't really happy with at the top, I just noticed a few changes in the last 12 months from it. I showed it to them, they weren't really a hundred percent on what I was saying, I thought was wrong with it, but they did all the tests and everything. And to give me some form of satisfaction and knowing that I'm a returning customer all the time, which is an option they provide to everybody, you get a lifetime guarantee on your crowns. So, I wasn't a hundred percent, they realistically got to the point where they weren't a hundred percent. So, they said no problems, Kelley we'll replace it. So, in the time I was there with my son, they remove my crown, replaced it, and I've walked out the door with no charges for that because there's a lifetime guarantee. Now, I don't know any dentists in Australia that will give you a lifetime guarantee on crowns. So, it was just, yeah, the service is definitely their customer services there. I've referred a lot of friends; I have another lady in Queensland who is a friend of mine who is now a pensioner. She was quoted $19,000 in Queensland for her teeth, she flew and spent six weeks traveling through Asia, her dentistry, accommodation, airfares, everything spending money. And she came home, and she'd spent $10,000, so, she was at half and she could basically... Kerry: Including the teeth? Kelley: Including the teeth, she had amazing experience. Kerry: Wow! Kelley: I could go on and on with friends and family that I've actually referred. I've got friends that live in Singapore that fly to Vietnam now to have their teeth done because it outweighs the costs of Singapore and the hygiene. I've got other people in South Wales I referred and same similar thing, they wanted to do bone grafts here for their teeth because they were so poorly. And then when they went to the doctor, he did it in the chair over there and they've never looked back. So, all the experiences or referrals that I've provided to them have come back as positive. So, I guess for me that's just another tick in their favor and reassurance that it is safe, it is hygienic. Kerry: And good value. Kelley: And really good value, you get a holiday, and you get your teeth done for a fraction of the cost. Kerry: Yes, and I think that's kind of the message I want to get across here is that, sometimes people kind of poo poo the idea about, you know, traveling to an overseas destination to have this kind of work because there is the fee of factor that the quality of the workmanship can't be guaranteed. Well, we've just found that out, that there is a lifetime guarantee on things like crowns, the service level is there, languages isn't problem, you know, you're saving money, serious money and guess what, guys, you get a little bit of a holiday at the same time. I can't remember having a holiday attached to any teeth work I've had done, let me show you. Kelly, I want to just say, how great it is to get your insights because I know for yourself have had this work and family and friends, but if you were to give some tips to people thinking about this idea, what would you say? Kelley: I would say if you have already had the work quoted here in Australia or... Kerry: Somewhere else in the world. Kelley: Or anywhere else in the world and you are able to without making a trip there, because of course that's a cost as well. It's not something... it would be get your dentistry reports and your lab ask for these, wherever you go, because you've been in as a patient and you're allowed to say, I'd like a second opinion from another dentist. You don't need to say where that dentist is and email the dentist over there and ask them to quote it for you, or they will give you back the advice. And then, you start the communication with them that will probably then build your trust that you know, what they are doing. And then, you can make times to either what suits in your travel period. I usually tell them, I'll be there between such and such a date, I need to have this done, or I'd like to have this done. They'll give me a timeline or now at the stage where I'll be there for 48 hours. I need my teeth cleaned, I need to check out and they'll fit me. So, also if you're over in Vietnam, currently traveling and you decide after you've heard this podcast, oh, this is something I really like to do. Just give them a call, or if you're in Ho Chi Minh City, you could pop into the dentist and they will fit you in, it's amazing how much [inaudible25:56] Kerry: Is not like you have to do it in advance or anything? Kelley: No, definitely not and I've just found one dentist that I've been absolutely amazed by and follow through. There would be numerous ones out there, so this is not a plug for any particular dentist. Just do your research and there is presently it doesn't come to my mind, but there is actually a website out there where you can actually see where they rate in the world as dentist. The dentist I currently go to when I last checked, he was third best dentist in all of Asia. So, that was a little bit more reassuring as well, but like I said, I've been going to him now, this particular dentist; it would be 10 years, we've been going to him off and on, on our travels, whenever we go over. Now, it becomes part of our travel, were every year, my husband, son, and myself, we always go via Ho Chi Minh city now it might be just for three or four days that's to go in. Hubby is a diabetic, so he actually does get quite a few fillings. We go in, we have our dentistry done on the first day we land, we have it all knocked over either first or second day, depending on what usually what he needs, not what we need and that's it, it's done and then we continue on with our amazing holiday. So, it just becomes part of our routine and once you've got that trust with it, which I'm sure give it a go guy, just give it a go. Kerry: It was simply great, having Kelly on the program, really appreciate her insights into the experience of having dental work in Vietnam and in particular in Ho Chi Minh City; great to get some background to some costs involved and how much she was able to save. Let me assure you, Kelly is definitely the kind of person who does a lot of homework before she entertains anything like this. She's a gorgeous looking girl with a beautiful smile and fantastic teeth, let me assure you. Look, we don't have any affiliation with any particular dentist surgery in Vietnam. I have however, put the links in the episode notes just from Kelly so that if you do wish to make contact with those surgeries in Ho Chi Minh City, it's all there for you to do. So, it's been great to have you on the program as always. Look, we cover all and every kinds of subjects on this program. So, please share, please give me your feedback. We have a Facebook page called What About Vietnam. Please throw your comments on there, let us know what you'd like to hear about, I'm sure I can track it down for you. In the meantime till next time, stay well and we'll talk soon. Let me assure you, we will be traveling soon, so stick with us. Outro: Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What About Vietnam. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam. Kelleys’ Dentist referred to in the podcast – See reference here - https://dentalcentervietnam.com/worldwide-beauty-dental-hospital-is-proud-to-be-ranked-in-the-top-5-cosmetic-hospitals/ Worldwide Beauty and Dental Hospital 244A Cong Quyinh Pham Ngu Lao, Quan 1 Phanh pho Email: dentalcentervietnam@gmail.com Phone: 1-800-823-058 (Australian Toll Free) (+61) 481 339 579 (Australia)

02ac6bda-343e-4b58-9776-faed892cffd7Inspired by love, Vietnam is an idyllic wedding destination What About Vietnam - Series 2 - 8 Vietnam - The perfect Wedding Destination Kerry Newsome: So, Nadine Zeigeldorf we are talking about Vietnam as a wedding destination. There's going to be some places that stands out. What are the most popular cities in Vietnam for weddings? Nadine Zeigeldorf: I think Vietnam overflows with extraordinarily beautiful places. Lots of people say Vietnam in the destination wedding categories as wanting to have something near the beach. For us I think the most popular choices would be the islands down in the south, Nha Trang, which is a really fun beach city; the extraordinary Ha Long Bay is a popular choice, and also of course Hoi An which is without a doubt everyone's favorite in the end. Kerry Newsome: So much charm in Hoi An. Nadine Zeigeldorf: And it's romantic with the beautiful, quiet little town with lanterns in the street. It that's magic. Kerry Newsome: It's pretty. And you know it's got all those beautiful doors and the old town as a great background for photos and I can just imagine it in wedding photos easily. Nadine Zeigeldorf: I think what's appealing about Hoi An in particular is we have an International Airport in Danang thirty minutes down the road. We have beautiful islands. We have fantastic beaches, we have a cute little river, we have the actual town that sits on the river we've got fabulous foods if you even wanted to explore the ethnic minorities, they're not so far away so in one location you have such an overflowing abundance of variety. Kerry Newsome: Yes and I think it's that variety in the mix with culture & food you know. Lots of venues for every budget, all of that kind of thing that would make it extremely attracted. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Absolutely, and activities as well, they are also plentiful here. There is something for everyone. There is something for the kids’ right up to grandma who you may have asked to join in the destination. Kerry Newsome: You know some people may think it's a bit strange to be talking about weddings, you know we're in the midst of COVID but you know weddings get planned well in advance. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Absolutely, I mean we have to two types of couples. We have a couple who are fairly spontaneous who are traveling through. Sometimes, they go...You know it's amazing you know we got engaged in Ho Chi Minh City. We're going to get married in Hoi An. We do get that quite often for those who want to in a loop in terms of the grand celebration, and the celebration with family and friends. In six to nine months tends to be the general kind of planning time, but people like to give the family and friends about twelve months notice, particularly if they've got to book a vacation at work. They need to plan their travels because they are waiting for many people, so you know I'm in Vietnam, it's not just the wedding, there's a whole travel experience that often leads to getting into the wedding point. People do like to give family and friends about twelve months. Kerry Newsome: We cannot wait. I bet. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Yes, and that's great too. Kerry Newsome: But I think if we're talking about some of the aspects that COVID has affected wedding plans.For some people they've got really dashed. You know like their weddings kind of got put on hold, or are canceled outright, or you know they are looking for another way to celebrate, and to get together and maybe in smaller numbers than previously considered. I would think that Vietnam as a wedding destination would definitely hit the note there for people. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Definitely, and I think you know we got a lot of people who are coming from various points across the globe. So to exactly come to the middle ( region of the globe) attention is appealing here, and to have a dedicated amount of time with family and friends. It’s a busy life you often don’t get time like this. So we are finding that numbers seem to be between twenty to forty, maybe fifty to sixty, which is still relatively small for some weddings, but we have you know couples who are coming;- the groom is coming from the U. K; and the bride from Australia for example, so people need to trave,l so why not make an experience out of it. That's why Hoi An is so appealing and Vietnam in general. If people never travel to Asia I think it's a beautiful intro into the S.E Asia region. Kerry Newsome: And I know when we got together to prepare for this. We kind of talked about and had bit of a giggle about the percentage of people that actually will attend? Because you know I thought that was something to think about. Because you know, if I'm going to invite people to an overseas destination, you know, will people come? I'm keen to get your answer for everyone on that one. Nadine Zeigeldorf: It's definitely a thought. The destination wedding side of things is still new to people. I know having a destination wedding is a big deal, because we think people won’t travel, and I always caution people and say please be careful, because from my experience. YES, they will. You will get ninety, ninety five percent of your invited guests will say yes, so do be aware. It’s because Vietnam i s still intriguing to so many people. People want to travel to Vietnam and if you've got a beautiful event like a wedding to travel for, why not. That's the perfect excuse to book that ticket and plan a trip that you've been dreaming off. And then of course you have the culmination of this beautiful love setting you know here in magic Hoi An. But I think I told you about the story where a lovely couple, who were based in Hong Kong. She was from Australia, he was from the U. S. She said I'm inviting two hundred people. I aid, I think about seventy to eighty will come so be careful. I gave them my standard warning and then, sure enough we passed the ninety percent mark quite quickly,and I got a message from her everyday. I don’t believe that four more people has confirmed and it was like this every day. She invited two hundred people and one hundred and ninety nine came. Kerry Newsome: A hundred ninety-nine out of two hundred people came. WOW! Nadine Zeigeldorf: You know I do tell that story very often as my bench mark because it is true. Vietnam is just magic. Kerry Newsome: I don’t think any of us need an excuse to go to Vietnam. But it is a great excuse to add to the process of making that booking, and just to get, you know all of the extras and as you say. The extra time with people, that you don’t see that often. A wedding normally finishes at the end of the event, and that's the norm for a lot of people. This is a chance to sort of hang around and experience the culture. I think it's a great idea. I wish I had thought about it. So now I'm going to get you to give us some ideas. What is a winning program? You kind of mentioned that it has some different elements and some different aspects in combination. Talk us through a wedding program typical or unusual. Nadine Zeigeldorf: When you see the experience beyond the wedding itself. When we first meet our couples, we talk about the importance of it, and the importance that people traveling all over the world potentially, to come and be with them as a couple but also experience this amazing region. We talk about that in the terms of a wedding week, because often that's what we do, we are planning multiple experiences for five to seven days. Because you want to WOW people. Well, with the experienced people, they are sometimes traveling a long way to see you. So I say there's just so much more that we can fit in, to make this experience a lifetime memory beyond the wedding day. Kerry Newsome: Some examples, like I think you mentioned a “welcome event”. Can you talk to people about some of those and some other aspects. I mean I've seen some funny things in places around Vietnam wedding. Nadine Zeigeldorf: I was thinking about who and which couple should I share some weddings experiences with, and the one that came to mind was Jaden Justin she's from the UK, he's from Australia so again that's classic situation, that we find a lot in our couples that someone needs to travel. With these guys they were both living in Australia, and family have met, and a lot of the friends in fact hadn't met so we discussed starting the week off with a bang. So yes okay welcome events of some sort is definitely something we recommend, but because many of these people had met I wanted to do something that would brake the ice a little bit, so we arranged a basketball competition. So if you've been to Vietnam you'll be very familiar with the circular boats on the river. They're not that easy to make to go straight in one line. Kerry Newsome: They are not very steady. Nadine Zeigeldorf : So we randomly call people from different sides of the globe, and different family members, and put them in a situation that forced them to engage, interact, have fun and just have something to talk about. So not everybody goes off with the madness like that, but there are so many fabulous experiences to have here in terms of food and culture and activities. So definitely a welcome event is a sure thing, whether it is a sunset barbecue or one night with a band on the beach. Something in the ancient town is always something of interest; definitely the number one welcome event. Get everyone together to celebrate this beautiful tropical environment, that they've all landed in. And then let me break it down to two smaller groups traditionally. Sometimes we find that “out of the box” experience but it doesn't have to be that way. Sometimes, the bride wants to go off and do one thing, and the groom could do another and people can join them in those experiences. Either way. But we find it gives people a little bit more of an intimate experience. Again, it’s the sun & fun stuff. Hoi An you know, it goes “off” and great photo shots, pampering, some massaging, cocktail parties, cooking classes and those kinds of things. The boys often want to be a little bit more adventurous and they might end up heading down to the big city in Danang. For those that have already met on the first night, it's just a lovely follow on from that. We also definitely encourage families to come to give family time and make it a bit of a priority. Maybe a couple of nights before the wedding, so that there was a bit more of an intimate experience because the day can be so busy. There’s also tailoring which is also a fun experience that we can help with. Kerry Newsome: I think the tailoring is an important one to mention. Because I've seen the whole wedding party, come and get all of their dresses, and the guys get the gear and that's part of the week before. It’s all part of the experience Nadine Zeigeldorf: Yes, absolutely in particular because the girls and the boys may notice each other and that’s such a fun experience. We send the boys off with a beer in hand to the tailor. I'm surprised actually when they come out looking absolutely fabulous, but they've also had a brilliant time together doing that. That's kind of outside the norm of choosing your wedding attire that an experience here in the town. Over five hundred tailors, is always fun and of course for the girls is something really special as well. It's a special time for the girls to be together, because often a couple haven't had time to be with their friends and not seen their family for such a long time. Kerry Newsome: And sometimes I think the people getting that preparation together for weddings can be very stressful. And can be expensive for many of us. And to be able to do that in Vietnam as all part of that wedding week, and do it in a fun environment, do it in a way that is probably going to cost you a bit less is great. The girls get to maybe engage in the design a little bit. Because they can. Because they are all standing next to each other, and looking at each other and making sure the design is the way that the bride wants it to be. Or he's happy to change it and the same for the guys. Sending guys off to get their suits, like normally in western society that's a real bug bare The guys normally wouldn’t be doing that with a beer in hand. And our lovely Vietnamese tailors. Fussing over them and you know getting them to choose fabrics and things like that. I'm sure they have a real wowser of a time. Nadine Zeigeldorf: They do absolutely love it. You can kind of hear them grumbling about it but for real they have to go to the tailors but guarantee they have a laugh. And they all would be fabulous on the day. They can go out casually, whether they are in tailored shorts and nice shirts if the wedding is a little bit more casual, or the guys are in a three-piece suits. Either way they just end up looking fabulous. Kerry Newsome: And you've got some great photographers in the regions, as well now to be able to take special photos of the event. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Absolutely.. Yes, definitely lots of young emerging Vietnamese photographers, who are incredibly talented. Who have learned the art of telling a wedding story, photographing your wedding in more documentary styles? And you've got the stories, the journey of the day or the week. If you're going to engage with the photographers, you need a little bit longer. But, yes definitely, we've also got some great western photographers in the region. Some people do like to bring their photographers from abroad, and that's absolutely okay too. Whatever, it's your wedding in the end, and your memories. Kerry Newsome: Absolutely, one other aspect of weddings that I learnt after our first conversation, was the different styles of weddings that you organize and get involved with. And one of those, I thought was quite interesting, was where a Vietnamese is possibly living abroad or studying abroad, or have lived away from Vietnam and their family for a long time and married a foreign possibly. And, they want to come back and connect with their cultural background and get married in a traditional way. Maybe talk to us about some of the different types of weddings that you get involved with. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Yes of course, we still have our classic destination wedding where people want to leave the shores of the country and have a very special experience. That we find is the becoming less and less popular. What we find more is couples are coming from different parts of the globe and very often we have a situation where we’re contacted by a couple, one or both have inherited heritage. They may have been born here, and have grown up or lived abroad or they were born in Australia or the U.S. or the UK. Wherever it might be, and they want to come back and they want to honor the heritage and we help to facilitate a blended experience. We help them learn about or relearn about the wedding culture. And the wedding customs here and integrate that into the wedding experience, and the white wedding perhaps at the end. Trying to find something, that is a mix, in a blended way to showcase who they are. All couples are different and we work to find the wedding creation that's right for them. The cultures and customs in Vietnam are incredibly beautiful, and very often the bride of the groom wants to share that with the other half family and friends. You're blending families, you're blending customs and culture. It’s a really magic way to do it here. Kerry Newsome: Yes, and I agree and I think that reconnection, all that ability to be back in the country of your origin and express your love for your partner, in that environment and taking that aspect, must be just so rich in feelings and emotion for everybody attending. Because as you say everyone is experiencing it in a different way, but I like that. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Weddings are filled with love any way. But when you’re sharing the more personal side of the bride or the groom in terms of what the family heritage is, it becomes incredibly personal and they're also very beautiful. Ceremonies here like the traditional tea ceremony, where the young couples ask for their blessing from their family members. By offering tea and in return the parents will offer their blessing. Yes, you can marry. But also give guidance and support on how to have a healthy long loving marriage. A beautiful intimate thing like that also involves both sides, and those moments are very special. And maybe a couple still wants to have the white wedding, so that's absolutely okay too. You can do the ceremony separate, we can integrate them together. And of course, showcasing you know the great food of Vietnam; there is just so much here for our couples to like and to share. Kerry Newsome: Yes, absolutely. And we talked about that reconnect, but we also talked about others, like in a Renewal of vows,Second weddings, and then you made a prediction about some people. All this seems to be trending. Post COVID share with us about some trends. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Look, like you mentioned earlier. I think things are going to be smaller. I think, a little bit more intimate. We have been separated, social distance through this experience of COVID. I think these steps of coming back together to celebrate things like weddings might be tentative. They might be smaller and a little bit more cautious. I think we're going to find the experience is going to be incredibly intimate and incredibly emotional. But I also feel post Covid people will potentially be faced with economic situations. As we know weddings are not a cheap endeavor to undertake, so I think you know WOW Vietnam is romantic, it's beautiful, so I think people are going to do that “sneak off” or Elope and I think they're going to commit. Kerry Newsome: Okay I'm going to put that on there !! Nadine Zeigeldorf: So people will just come and say “we've got married”. Kerry Newsome: And you know we touched budget. We touch on the costs in regards to our weddings. I mean how long is a piece of string is as far as cost is concerned. But would you say that the feedback from your plans, weddings are good value in Vietnam? Nadine Zeigeldorf: I would definitely say so. I mean of course, you can go with the full “bells and whistles” here, with five-star resorts and your budget you will pay the same as in the west. But if you choose to have unique experiences. We find that the budget extends. If for example in the west, the couple are unable to cover the cost of the welcome dinner. In Vietnam you will be able to amongst other smaller events. Kerry Newsome: Yes. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Because a restaurant can feed sixty to eighty people actually doesn't end up costing that much money. When you are thinking of the cost of our local beer and local food, it depends on the experience. We work with each couple. What's your budget, what's important over the wedding week and then identify how to create the best experience for them. You know within the budget, also depends on how many people they want to come. And we have tricks that we know even at the five-star resorts. We can help save a little bit of money, that could potentially be used somewhere else. I'm so passionate about Vietnam and passionate about what I do. That I want people to have an incredible experience, the whole time that they are here. Working out with the couples, to make that happen within their budget is what I do. Kerry Newsome: So, just to finish up so we can wrap up. I mean from my start to finish do you have a recommended time that you would suggest that people consider? What is the best plan re getting leave approved from whoever they are working for? What time are you suggesting ….a week? Nadine Zeigeldorf: Yes, and absolutely. At least at least five days you know within the area that you've chosen for the wedding. And then of course you know like we discussed several times; how fabulous Vietnam is and the journey that people take to and from that wedding destination. If the wedding in central Vietnam, people my fly north to experience Ha Long Bay as part of their time in Vietnam, or in the south go to the Mekong Delta. And all the other fabulous things along the way here. So often it's not just the five-day wedding week experience here.There's a little bit more that they will like to take on so you know. Yes, we do we listen to people who are here for five days and then we have people who are here the entire month soaking up the sun in Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: And let's just finish then on maybe be your favorite honeymoon options just sorry we can wrap it up. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Well, I think we are seeing entire families tag along on the honeymoon. The bride says yes, we're going to Ha Long Bay. We want to go there, so they end up with the boat load of people on Ha Long Bay, and for those looking for that beautiful kind of hidden and honeymoon in private experience. Vietnam has amazing resorts here in central Vietnam, and all across Vietnam. One place, doesn't just have to be the sole destination. You know we've got such incredible network to jump in and out of here. Kerry Newsome: And some very beautiful neighbors. Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Exactly, so many great places. Vietnam has it. You really need to plan time to enjoy it. Kerry Newsome: Well not that I ever want to get married again but I...Well I might do a vows renewal. ha!! Thank you very much for being on the show. Nadine Zeigeldorf: My pleasure.

S4-07 Hue the city Past Present Future Hue the city - past present and future Episode 7 S4-07 Hue the city Past Present Future 00:00 / 47:30 Hué is a city not to be missed on your journey throughout Vietnam. Boasting a patchwork of imperialism and French colonialism you will find yourself delving back hundreds of years as you explore the legacy of war and a dynasty spanning 13 generations. It’s a fascinating place. Quite beautiful as you find beaches and a river safe enough now to swim in. Over a 3-4 day visit you can take your time meandering through the countryside discovering historical relics and pagodas dating back to the 18th century. You will be charmed by the river, the paddies fields and local museums, plus you will gain a whole new perspective of some of the hardest fought battles in the American war. My guest is Norwegian born expat Anders Krystad who found his new home in Hué nearly 20 years ago. He took it upon himself to write a very detailed guide book just prior to Covid, which is the reason why I knew he was the right person to talk about this famous city. If it’s history you are into, then this show will give you some context to some of the major attractions and sites in Hué that you won’t want to miss. Find out more about Hue from one local that really knows this place inside out:- 6.50 Geography 10.49 The Forbidden city – The Citadel 14.21 Emperors tombs 15.28 Thien Mu Pogada 17.43 The perfume River 21.33 Best areas to stay 22.12 Bunker Hill 23.35 Famous foods to try 34.23 Best time of year to visit 37.16 Thuy Tien Lake – Abandoned theme park 39.20 Train travel to Hue 41.46 Accommodation Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

< Back 3 Days 2 nights Nurturing Wellness package Hue – Vietnam At Alba Wellness Valley by Fusion Experience highlights A 3day/ 2 night Nurturing wellness package at Alba Wellness Valley by Fusion is carefully crafted by. Kerry Newsome your Podcast Host and the Alba Wellness team:- For people who are looking for a relaxing and healing retreat - in the truest sense. For people seeking a tranquil atmosphere and the luxury of time to indulge in many spa treatments, meditations and soaking in hotsprings For people who want to travel differently and avoid the crowds but still enjoy locally grown food and a heightened experience of Vietnamese culture For those wishing to explore HUE local culture and cuisine in a relaxed and mindful way This joyful experience will bring harmony and balance to your body – mind and well-being. This Nurturing Healing retreat at Alba Wellness Valley by Fusion has been designed and crafted with a desire to bring a meaningful journey back to your true self. This retreat is aimed at regenerating your wellbeing and setting you on a path of healthy living. This joyful experience will bring harmony and balance on 3 key components: body – mind – soulful well-being, especially focusing on mental health. What to expect during your stay Body treatments We encourage you to participate in and take advantage of the many treatments included in this Nurturing retreat. · Cleansing your physical body through juicing and other healthy drinks (kombucha – fermented probiotic tea) along with vegetarian or healthy meals · Indulge and pamper yourself through our exceptional spa treatments and authentic Japanese onsen. · Boost your immune system by soaking in mineral rich outdoor hot springs · Challenging yourself with our exciting outdoor experiences which include zipline and adventurous highwire circuits or hiking in the forest · Organic cooking class at the farm with fresh picked vegetable and herbs · Yoga classes and meditations taking advantage of the local springs and mindfulness spaces Mindfulness Observe your breath and stay mindful with our wide range of meditation classes : water meditation, forest meditation barefoot, chakra healing meditation with candles, Rainbow shower meditation, qigong and yoga. Learn something : A new way to cleansing, farming or creative crafts to help explore a new-you that you might have forgotten for a long time. Get quality sleep , thanks to all these activities as well as tranquil and beautiful nature and fresh air Soulful wellbeing Even if you prefer to remain secluded and not follow any specific spiritual activity, you will still reduce your stress levels and discover a relief in your soul. Spend time in nature : forest hiking, forest bathing and meditation to connect your inner emotions and feelings Take time to give gratitude to nature earth, your friends and all the people surrounding you to make this a meaningful experience. Be compassionate to yourself and others, by observing your breathing pattern, looking deep inside yourself, appreciating how lucky you are and discover caring for yourself before helping someone else, is a great way to discover true happiness For more information or to book click here DAILY SCHEDULED TIME ACTIVITY DAY 1: ARRIVAL, RELAXATION AND PAMPERING 14:00 Arrival, check in, healthy welcome drink with homemade kombucha 15:00 Resort Tour, Welcome & Hot Spring Knowledge 16:00 - 18:00 Onsen and Yin & Yang spa treatment 18:30 Healthy welcome dinner (Healthy Balance Dinner) 20:00 Wellness Turndown to be set up in guest’s room (Herbal Detox Tea) DAY 2: INTO THE FARM: COOKING CLASS, HEALING MEDITATION 6:30 Celery Juice experience 7:00 Hiking to forest and cold stream biking to local villages, may visit wet market or churches 8:30 Healthy Breakfast anywhere Free time, Zipline (included in the package) 11:00: Yoga class (optional) 12:30 Cooking class by the farm 15:00 Onsen 15:40 Prana Vital Energy treatment 18:00 Early healthy dinner - optional if you choose intermittent fasting method 20:00 Chakra healing meditation Wellness Turndown to be set up in guest’s room (Herbal Detox Tea) DAY 3: PURIFYING YOURS AND CHECK OUT 6:30 Celery Juice experience 7:00 – 8:00 Water Purifications & water meditation 8:30 Breakfast anytime anywhere then check out Hue Half Day City tour (optional) 9.30 – 1.30pm Following breakfast you will be collected at the resort and taken for a “Discovery half day tour” of Hue. Our knowledgeable English speaking tour your guide will assist you to understand the history of Hue as the Imperial capital of Vietnam. You will be guided through the Citadel and you will visit many places of historic significance including one new place of startling beauty - Lebadang Memory Space - https://lebadangmemoryspace.com/ Your guide will advise best place to enjoy local cuisine. At the conclusion of the tour, you will then be taken to your final destination – Airport/train or hotel as per your preference. PRICE - INCLUDED SERVICES: Accommodation at Alba Wellness Resort by fusion Breakfast anytime anywhere Daily morning juices on day 2,3 and 4 1 -Healthy dinner on day 1 with a healthy drink (non-alcohol) 50 min Spa treatment/person/night 30 min Onsen session/person/night Unlimited outdoor hot spring bathing/ soaking Daily Wellbeing follow up Daily Wellness activity classes from yoga, meditation, breath, biking, hiking to revitalize and reinvigorate, reducing stress and resetting inner balance. (Complimentary) Daily herbal tea turndown service Water purification ritual on day 4 PRICE PER PERSON $USD Validity: from 01 Apr 2022 – 31 Oct 2023 (black-out dates applied)

22d51e23-8e77-4448-b2e9-230c6f281ad0The best locations in Vietnam for photographic scenic delights. What About Vietnam - Series 2 – 6 The TOP 5 travel photography locations in Vietnam Kerry: Xin Chao and welcome to What About Vietnam. If there's one thing I know about travel, that is that we all love to take photographs, we all want to record that beautiful journey that we've had to that special place. Today, I'm going to be talking to someone who knows a lot about this subject, as he runs his own photo tours all through Southeast Asia, but in particular, his favorite spot is Vietnam. Etienne Bossot joins us today from Hoi An and he opens our discussion with a little bit about what's happening in Vietnam, amid the COVID crisis and the upsurge in a second wave. As we're recording this in August 2020, we didn't want to get too stuck on that, but it was good to hear from Etienne, just a little bit of the background to what's been going on with COVID and how Vietnam has handled it so valiantly up until now. And it still goes on to really get it under control as the center point is in, Danang very close to Hoi An, more about Etienne in the sense that Etienne does offer some fantastic tours throughout Southeast Asia. He's been doing this for over 13 years. He specializes in people photography, and there certainly is an art to taking people photography seriously and an art to getting it right and doing it in a way that from both you as the photographer, and the person you taking the photograph of, are both very happy about the outcome, he will share with us some of the best places. His top five best places to visit in Vietnam. And we're going to get lots of tips and hints about how to take great photos. Please welcome Etienne to the show. Hello Etienne, how are you? Etienne: I'm fine thanks and you? Kerry: Not too bad. Well, I'm in cold winter rugged up Sydney. How is things in Hoi An? Etienne: Oh, I am in hot summery, sweaty Hoi An. Kerry: Nothing has changed. Etienne: Nothing has changed, no. Kerry: As far as the weather anyway. So, tell us a little bit about how things have changed amid COVID…. a lot going on in the news. So, I’d love to get your recap on just what's going on in Vietnam and of course your local Hoi An. Etienne: Okay, so what happened is at the beginning of what I could call the COVID crisis in March, April, actually Vietnam managed the situation really well and managed to trace the few people who were tested positive. So, they managed to handle the spread of the virus. And there was about three months of time in Vietnam when there was no COVID anymore you could travel freely, there was not a single case recorded, tested, there was not a single death happening with COVID and something strange happen about 10 days ago, they tested someone positive in the Binh Nam and no one knows where it comes from, this person had actually already passed away, but he was an old man who was already sick with like kidney disease and things like this. But no one really knows where these things come from. You know, people talk about illegal Chinese immigrant, but in Vietnam, people always take shortcuts to start blaming the Chinese very quickly. So, you need to take things with a pinch of salt. So, what happens now is since four days, we are back into complete lockdown in Danang, in Hoi An, it's a semi locked down, but the difference this time is, is the first time it was a lock down, but people were like going out a little bit and going to have coffee with friends and things. I mean, people were following the rules, but it was pretty chill. This time I can really feel between the expat community and the Vietnamese people, everyone is taking things much more seriously because there was not a single case of COVID in Vietnam for a long time and it was like the pride of the country. And you can tell people really want to get back to this last three months when you could travel freely in Vietnam, Vietnam was back to normal except for the international tourism. So, everyone is really taking things seriously, this time people are staying home, everyone's wearing masks and the government is actually testing as many people as they can in the central Vietnam area. And I actually believe if they continue to do the job they do now in a couple of weeks, we might be COVID free again. Kerry: Let's hope so. I think what I have admired the most about the Vietnamese government and the Vietnamese people themselves is that they have been very strict on themselves. I mean, here in Australia, we have unfortunately some stories around people just, taking things too lightly and being vagrant, and that has caused outbreaks in particular in Melbourne. But what I do admire about the Vietnamese and I think it actually leans to their fear of illness, which I know is very high. They fear illness, almost the highest thing that they fear in the world. So, they go to all ends that I've noticed to avoid illness. So, I really admire just the attitude and them being proactive and jumping on this really early. Etienne: Yeah, and definitely the Vietnamese people are people who listen to what the government tell them. They trust in the government because I mean, let's be honest for the last 20 years Vietnam has been doing really well. So, what people think is not to be critical towards the government so much, because things are doing really well in Vietnam. And Vietnam and like a lot of Asian countries, it's a more collectivist country than in the West, we are more individually. So, we think about ourselves a bit too much, we tend to be a little bit more selfish and then it tends to happens, people say, no, I don't want to wear a mask because it's my freedom and really ridiculous things like this, yeah. Whereas people are not like this in Vietnam, because people understand it's for the good of everyone that everyone should wear a mask. Kerry: It's a collective, yes agreed. Alright now you've been in the tourism industry for a long time and specializing in your photographic tours, which you do so well. I mean, just really quickly, how do you see Vietnam and tourism in the future? Like, just if you were to crystal ball, what would you say? Are we going to have the buses outside the old town? Like we have in the past, what are your thoughts there? Etienne: Well, I actually I sold my crystal ball last year because I realized that was not a good idea. Kerry: Good idea. Etienne: I'm really good at predicting things for the future, honestly, I do not know. It completely depends on how the situation evolves around the world. Let's say if Europe and the US and maybe Australia is still stuck in a COVID crisis, the first people to come back to Vietnam will be the Asian markets. And the Asian market is the one that is being shipped by bus and electric car through the old town and making the streets very busy with groups of people doing selfies and things like this, which is fine for the businesses located into the old town, but every other tour business, every little homestay located in the countryside around Hoi An, things like this, they don't really rely on this market to survive. So, for Hoi An to be doing well, like it used to, we need Asian tourism, and we need Western tourism, but who knows when things will get back to normal, if they ever get back to normal. Kerry: Yes. And what normal will look like in the future, I think is up for grabs in anyone's language. Etienne: Yeah. Kerry: So, let's concentrate on the stuff we do know about and certainly what you know about which is photography. And let's talk about your experience in that area and if you were to talk to our listeners who are avid or keen travel photographers, what is it in Vietnam that would be most appealing to a travel photographer? Etienne: So, the best thing about Vietnam, and I would say Southeast Asia in general is mostly what people appreciate is the facility, how easy it is compared to the West to take photos of people. And this is something that is really amazing when you're arrive in Southeast Asia, is that you can take photos of people and you can interact with them and it's fine. Whereas in the West, people are very suspicious when you take photos of them. Kerry: Yeah, for sure. Etienne: For the wrong reasons, I believe people are a little bit too paranoid. But that's one of the first thing that people enjoy when they come here, and which is what I enjoy as well. And which is the reason why our photography tours and workshops focus 99% on people, photography, and the art of approaching people to take their picture and to compose great images with the human element inside. Kerry: Okay. Etienne: The other thing people enjoy is how easy it is to travel around, and you go around, and you grab a bus, and you grab a driver, and you can go pretty much everywhere you want. So, you've got the freedom of traveling, things are not restricted, etc. So, you feel safe, you feel free to travel where you want, and it really helps when you can focus on your photography then. Kerry: Okay, and I mean, I think our social media and all of our travel guides are absolutely always full of the most amazing scenery photography. I mean, there is some amazing scenery you and I have both seen that. Is that something that photographers also come to capture and to do well, obviously it's a different style and a different skillset. Can you talk to us a little bit about that? Etienne: Well, it's a little bit more, I mean, if you come from Australia and you're used to a driving an hour and find this huge empty wide landscape, where you can compose some really good sceneries, it's a little bit more difficult to find these things in Vietnam, because there's a very high density of population on the coastline. So, as soon as you're on the coastline, you will have electric wires and new pictures. You will have some big flashy signs in the background that will be a little town or a little city that is kind of spoiling your background. There are some amazing spots, the difficult thing about Vietnam is that we are facing East. And if you want to catch the beautiful lights, you have to wake up really early to catch the sunrise because the sunset is over the mountains of Laos. And we usually don't have that amazing sunset, but the sunrise is just mind blowing. So, it's a little bit trickier, you;ve got to wake up at 3:30 or 4 in the morning to catch a 4:30, 4:45 sunrise, you know what I mean? Which is what we do on our photography tours because there is human activity as early as four in the morning in fishing villages and things like this. But it's a little bit more difficult and sometimes I've tried it. I've tried with my groups and I've tried myself and I say, okay, this morning, I'm going to take a landscape photo, yeah. And I arrive in the morning and I set up my tripod and I wait for the light to be good and here's people going on around me and I'm thinking, ooh, if I should shoot that woman here in the water, that would be so nice, and I just forget about my scenery shot and jump on the people. Kerry: So, people is your love is, is that capturing them in motion? And I've heard you often speak about the reality of photos rather than how shall I say staged photos. I think you've spoken quite vividly about that, and I admire you for that because I think that's reality. And I've done one of your tours, which I loved, which was about creating and being able to take photos of real people in real life situations and I definitely rate that highly. I'm going to jump in here and ask a big question and I know some people hate answering it, but if I were to say to you, do you have like five, just five top places in Vietnam that you would say would be extremely desirable, for other travel photographer to visit. Do you have five that you would recommend? And we can actually go through one, two, three, four, five, and we can break them apart, but do you have five? Etienne: Alright, so okay well my first choice would be obviously Hoi An. Okay, because I'm based and because I live in Hoi An. Anyone who has ever been to Hoi An or have seen images of Hoi An, you know that Hoi An is basically like a movie set. The old town is just magnificent with his old Vilas, all the walls are yellow, and it's still a mix of modernity and tradition in Hoi An. So of course, if you go into the old town, I mean, one year ago, if you were going into the old town 5:00 PM, it was just tourist everywhere. But if you go into the old town at five in the morning or six in the morning, it's basically Vietnamese, there are no tourists, you are back into the real Vietnam, it's just amazing, the market is busy, people are very friendly. In between two photos you stop on the side of the road to have some noodle soup and some good coffee. I mean, it's just so easy to travel and being in Hoi An, there is choice of hotel, there's a choice of restaurant, there's a choice of spa. You can go have a massage in between two photo shoots, I mean, it's just so easy. So, that would be my first choice and that's why we run a lot of photography tours in central Vietnam. Kerry: Okay, we put that down as number one. Etienne: Yeah, number one. Kerry: So, number two. Etienne: Number two well, I don't know if I'm allowed to do that, but I'm just going to spread the area a little bit wider. And I would say the countryside around Hoi An, which is very highly unexplored. A lot of people come to Hoi An and stay in Hoi An. But if you drive five, 10 kilometers outside of town, you are 20 years behind Hoi An. You suddenly reach this countryside where people have never seen a tourist before. It's just that easy, you drive 10 minutes on a motorbike, and you are in a place where people have never seen a tourist before. And it's just then so easy to go and take photos there because naturally when you are positive and you have a positive way of thinking and approaching people and you come with a big smile and you come and talk to the people and take photos and chat with them, people are very curious because they never see tourists here. So, you don't have to do the work of approaching them to take their picture. They come to you already, oh, what are you doing here, are you lost? Which country are you from? And oh, why you speak Vietnamese and how long have you been here and why. And boom you don't have to do anything; people come and approach you. So, it's so much easier to go and take photos of them because you don't have to deal with this. Ah, maybe they don't want me to take photo of them, no they just come to you already and smile. So, it just makes it so much easier and it's something I recommend anyone coming to Hoi An to do, is to rent a motorbike or even a bicycle. And to cross that giant Cam Nam bridge that new bridge on the river. And as soon as you arrive south of Hoi An, it is completely untouched in this whole area. Kerry: And there's beautiful cultural aspects to that as in farming and handcrafts and the markets. And so, it's not just the people, but it's also their environments, isn't it? Etienne: Yeah. Kerry: It's where they live and they carrying on as if time has forgotten them, almost. Etienne: It’s a jump back in time, you do one more kilometer and it's like five years before, and then you do five more kilometers and then you arrive in a field where they don't harvest the rice with the machine, they're still doing it by hand, but two kilometers behind you saw the machine, yeah. I mean, the more you go towards the mountain area to Laos, the more you get back in time, more and more and more and more. Yeah. So, it's just fantastic to travel there and the people are so, so friendly. Kerry: Yes, so number three. Etienne: Number three, which I was about to put that into number two, but I put it in number three, but still, it should be number one, like really, it's for me, it's the mountains of North Vietnam. And once you go into North Vietnam and you see these mountains, which have been sculpted into rice patties and the way the minority people have just modify the whole landscape to create this stunning, like for landscape photography it is just amazing and for people photography as well, that rural markets and people in the field and minority villages, this is just, we run photography tours in North Vietnam every year in September during the rice harvest. It's Just still one of my favorite tours to run. Even after eight years of going there every year or several times a year, it's just fantastic. I was there two weeks ago. Kerry: And you know, it's funny, you say you've you go there several times and you still find something new, don't you. That's what I find about Vietnam, I go back to some of the same places, but there's just something new to discover; you talking about Sapa and Hanoi, can you give me locations where you go in North Vietnam specifically? Etienne: Well, from North Vietnam you can go from Hanoi, you can basically go to Mai Chau. Either on the highway or with a train and from Mai Chau you either go left towards Sapa, which Sapa was a place to avoid from the last three, four years. Kerry: Yeah. Etienne: It's been overcrowded with Chinese and construction and it became ugly full of concrete. But actually, now is a really good time to go there. And I have a lot of friends who live in Vietnam, who are actually in the North right now, it's fantastic time to travel in Vietnam now. If you can, I mean, until five days ago because there are no international tourism, and all the homestays are open. So, you could basically travel through the country without any other tourists, but it's fantastic. But as you said, it's changing every year, every year you go and the field is different and mostly from the photography point of view on that day, the light is different and that field was busy with people, but then you come, two weeks later, the field is gone. There's nothing, the light is different, and they are doing something else on some other field or in the market. And there's always new things to find. And when it's about people, photography is what I love about it. Yeah, landscape is a landscape. If you wake up early in the morning, you set up your camera, take a photo, then suddenly your cloud shows up, well, there's nothing you can do, you just go home. People photography, you can move around them and if they're in the field and a cloud shows up and it start raining, well, then you follow them. They will invite you to have some tea in their house, and then you can keep shooting in different environments. and it's just so dynamic and interesting. Kerry: Yes, definitely and let's face it. People make everything don't they like, because they have a personality, because they have a locality to speak to, they have a history, and they have emotions. And I think that is what is most desirable in people photography, certainly from my point of view anyway. Etienne: Yeah, definitely. Kerry: Okay, so I'm up to number four. What's your number four, Etienne: Oh, number four let me think. I think for four, I recently really fell in love with, so, it's not one particular area, but something I would recommend to any tourists coming to Hoi An is to go and explore the coastline between Hoi An and basically Qui Nhon. So, Qui Nhon is located South basically. Kerry: So, we talking Tam Ky. Etienne: I'm talking from Tam ky and heading South of that, the next 200 kilometers coastline. Kerry: Oh, Yeah. Etienne: It's a completely untouched area, Kerry: I know. Etienne: Like they start having tourists come into Qui Nhon. But if you go to Tuy Hoa, if you go to any area between Qui Nhon and Hoi An is just fantastic, the things you can find over there. Kerry: Yes, I was talking to someone about Tam Ky and Kon Tum beach, which is on that way, but you're right. Qui Nhon is an area I haven't been to yet. But it's one I certainly wanted to discover, and it does look so beautiful and so untouched. Etienne: It is really stunning, I mean, it's not something I would recommend any tourist to go, any travel because it's, there's not much accommodation like for Western tourists, the restaurants, you have to eat local because there is no tourism there. But for anyone who has an interest in photography, every single fishing village is mind-blowing, you can find salt fields it's full of rice fields, everywhere calm and the people are just so friendly. They never see foreigners there, so it's very easy to travel in these areas. Kerry: And it is developing Etienne, it is becoming a little bit more, how shall I say international tourist friendly. There are some places being developed in those areas but let's hope it doesn't get overrun. Etienne: Yeah, once again, it's the same thing. Someone will open a hotel in a town, and someone will open another hotel in the same time, but you go 10 kilometers to the next town, there is nothing. So, it's still very easy to get out as soon as the tourism infrastructure happened somewhere, it's still very easy to get out of this place. Kerry: Agreed, okay so number five on your list. Etienne: Number five, I'd say Hanoi, just Hanoi City you know, the Old Quarter around Huon Kiem Lake. Kerry: Yes. Etienne: Early morning, six and eight in the morning is just the ladies pushing the bicycles, going to the market through the old Villa, I know you like this area a lot, yeah. It's just fun to walk around Hanoi and either practice street photography, or do foody travel photography, it's always a pleasure, always a real pleasure, Kerry: Yes, and you know, that it's quite unusual in the sense, it has an atmosphere that goes with it, you know. People are dancing, there's men playing checkers. Etienne: Man doing fishing things on the lake, people once again. Kerry: Yeah, and there's farmers that meet there, it's delightful, it's got a lot happening. Etienne: There are basically thousands of people walking or running around the Lake doing exercise. They actually block the traffic early morning, there are no motorbikes, no cars. And along the Lake is just people running and riding their bicycles and everyone is in a good mood and having coffee and you walk around, take photos and no one cares, it's just very easy. Kerry: So, getting just very quickly, and I don't want to get into this in a big way, but from a technical point of view what do you suggest for a travel photographer to bring as far as equipment. Well, let's say if they were to join you on a tour or they were to do a tour of themselves, you know what would you advise? Etienne: Well, okay, this depends on anyone's photography and what they like, etc. What I usually recommend when people come from, a lot of people come from Australia on the tour and they message me before. And what should I take, etc. What we do here, because we do people photography and because people photography is not fun until you know about your subject a little bit. I believe I tell people just to leave the zoom lens at home here, we usually tend to get close to everything. Because when you get close to your subject, you can interact with them, you can see what they do, you can move around your subject. So, you can compose many different images. if you wear the big zoom lens, you will say something far where you would point and shoot, and you're just not as creative in terms of composition, as you are. If you were with a 35-millimeter close to your subject, where you could easily move, right, move, left, move up and down and change your composition instantly. And people photography for me, it's called travel photography and the photography is important, but the travel, is maybe more important. And if I take a nice photo of a man, but I don't have any interaction or any memory to myself or that, I just don't feel satisfied. I want to take a great photo, but I want to have a good laugh with this person, I want to know about them a little bit and somehow, I want to manage to give them something back and giving them something back, I'm not meaning giving them money. I mean, having an interaction with them, so when I leave this interaction, they're happy and I'm happy. And usually, I mean, many, many of my students have witnessed this and when you come from the West, it's really weird, but we go in a field and there are a group of people working and we talk with them and we laugh with them and we take the photos and then we leave and they say, thank you. Can you imagine in that way, it's just impressive. Kerry: Yes, I can't imagine that in the West at all. It does bring up a subject that I even get asked around the expression of gratitude. You know, there are people that say, should we offer them some money, should we pay them to take a photograph, how do we do this respectfully and do this in a way that as you say, from both sides, it is a wonderful experience and memory to take home. Etienne: This is a really grey area, and I would reply to this question in a different way, depending on who I'm talking to, but because I think your followers are Australian, so it's fine, like I don't have one opinion on this. Kerry: Oh, Etienne, I have followers all over the world Etienne, not just Australia. Thank goodness, I've got them from everywhere. Etienne: Okay, so I'll have to be careful then what I say, but no, it's a very grey area and some people get really sometimes upset when I reply. But what I tell people, you can not show up in a place and think, oh, I have more money than them and so, I'm going to give them some money. It's just not the way the world works and you just giving people the wrong image. If you arrive in a village and in the countryside, no one will ask you for money and you arrive in a village and you take a photo of this old lady in the field and you think, oh, she's old and she looks poor, I'm going to give her some money, but she didn't ask you for anything. And a lot of people do that because in the West, we relate everything with money. Well, that woman who doesn't really know, maybe she's never been to school much. And then she's like, oh, foreigners give money, this is what they do. Boom, the next time I show up in the same field, the day after she's going to wait for me and say, give me money. And the experience will be spoiled, will be destroyed because she suddenly foreigner equals money. And you tend to give this idea to people, that's okay if a foreigner comes in the field and take your photo, he is going to give you some money, which it could be sometimes. I mean, sometimes I give money to people, but I give money to people, when I know they need the money, when I've been talking with them, not just giving them money because I took a photo of them and I feel bad because I took something from them and I feel I need to give them something back, but something doesn't have to be financial, it doesn't have to be material, interact with them, show them the picture and give them a good laugh. That's it, you give them something back, you create this interaction and now they're like, oh, this foreigner people are really friendly. They're actually getting their feet in the mud and they make me laugh and they have a good experience with foreigners. So, if you want to help the people, there are many other ways you can work with a local NGO and give some money to this NGO that will have older people in a certain area. But if you yourself not knowing the people show up somewhere and give money, you have more chance to destroy the place than to help anyone. Kerry: Well, I think that's good advice and I think, it is a very individual thing. However, as you say, if you're going to set a precedent maybe it's not a good idea and there are some great NGOs in Vietnam to support. And I think from a holistic point of view, it's not just an individual, they're very community minded. So, it's more about what you can do to support a whole community when you're entering it, I think it's worth mentioning. Etienne: Exactly, yeah so, if you give your list to someone today, what are they going to do with it? Is it going to help them more, not at all. Kerry: Exactly, okay so just to wrap up and I know it's probably a crazy question to ask you because you do run photography tours, but for a traveler who has a real keen interest in photography and they want to get the best out of Vietnam, do you recommend people, you know, choosing to do a tour to include that as part of their visit or do you think you can like just make it up as they go along and as you say, hire a bike, blah, blah, blah. I mean, I have my own interpretation and thoughts on that, I personally think going with the tour is the way to go, because sometimes you lose time in trying to find the right places. Where if you are with a guide and a person like yourself that knows all the top spots and knows how to get there quickly, and efficiently, and then can add expertise to what you're doing. So, in other words, you know, help me increase my skills at the same time, I think that's a win-win. But maybe you have some broader thoughts. Do you think people can do it on their own? Or is it best they do it with a tour operator? Etienne: Obviously, if anyone who is keen in photography joins like a photography tour, how can I say that which is not a fake, dodgy tour that someone made because photography tour was a popular keyword on Google, but something that really brings them to the right place at the right time of the day. Of course, it is the best way to do things. Where I would start to differentiate from your answer is for people who are into photography here and don't want as you said, hustle, and find a location themselves and rent a motorbike and drive there, which I would recommend people to try and do, because getting lost is a great way to travel. But if people sign up just for tour people find a local tour guide and tell them I'm interested in photography, take me to the right place. You know, most tour guides, they don't want to change the itineraries, they have their routine, they have their places, they know tourists like to go to this tourist place and that will still try to take you to these tourist places. And I think even though you are clear with your guy that I want to do photography, I don't want to go where tourists go. They will still somehow tend to take you to the place where the tourists go, because it's just easy for them. So, unless you find someone who really knows about photography, who really understands what you're looking for then it can make your life much easier, definitely. The way I travel myself is I do a lot of research before, so for example, if I want to open a new photography tour, like what I did in Iran, like three years ago, I did a lot of research about the country. The second thing I do, I check where the tourists go and where I don't want to go then. And then I contact local photographers and I spend a lot of time on Instagram, looking at photos of Iran. And I meet photographers who take photos that I think are really great and then I get in touch with them and I say, okay, I'm coming to your town, can you meet me? Can you take me to these places? And a mix of information, you can find online, a mix of information you can get from local photographers and kind of mixing all this together helps me to create my itinerary already. But most of the time I found amazing locations, not by finding them online, yeah by the local contacts who took me to places that just blew my mind. So, I would recommend people do that. Kerry: Okay, so in wrapping up, we're going to say it's actually good to get lost, to find the best spot. Etienne: Always, not for too long, but it's good, yeah. Kerry: Absolutely and people photography is definitely something that's open to photographers in Vietnam as some of the best shots taken in Vietnam are of the people. And for scenery, we're going to rate North Vietnam as the number one, as in your big panoramic shots. Etienne: North Vietnam number one, I put the lagoons of central Vietnam, number two, we have some amazing lagoons between Hoi An and Hue where the sunrise is just phenomenal. Kerry: Ah, yes and from the Hai Van Pass, all that is beautiful as well. Etienne: Yeah, exactly. Kerry: Yes, I just want to say thank you very much Etienne for coming on the show. I'm sure everyone listening has got a lot out of this, lovely to talk to you and catch up on just what's happening in Vietnam at the moment. Etienne: Anytime. Kerry: And good luck and best wishes to your family stay well, stay safe. And we will be talking to you soon. Etienne: Thanks, Kerry. We'll be staying home for the next days and see how the situation evolves here, but we are confident things will get under control soon. Kerry: Great. Thanks very much Etienne. Etienne: Thanks Kerry. Kerry: Thank you Etienne for coming on the show. It's been great to talk through just so many aspects to Vietnam and the possibilities available for both the professional and the amateur photographer. For everyone I have put Etienne links to a Hoi An photo tours and picks of Asia in the episode notes. Please, don't forget to share this podcast with your friends and family who may be thinking about coming to Vietnam in the future. I mean, we're all in the position at the moment where we're researching, planning, so, please put Vietnam on your map, it's a wonderful destination to visit. I look forward to talking with you in future episodes. Thank you and be safe everyone.

0fb6c539-013e-4680-af6e-b74130a97da9Is Vietnam family-friendly? With guest Suzie Slingsby. Vietnam a family friendly destination Episode 3 Vietnam a family friendly destination 00:00 / 15:51 Is Vietnam Family /kid friendly? The answer is a strong yes from my guest today Suzie Slingsby. Suzie is a seasoned traveller and from a young baby, her daughter has joined her and her partner on many of their overseas trips. Vietnam is one of their favourite locations because it offers them and their daughter so many options. Suzie offers up some of the best things to do and a few tips for the newbie traveller with a family to get the best out of Vietnam. Some great tips Suzie, thanks! Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

8db76043-cfb3-4ce7-93e8-f406afe7029aShopping for Designer, Tailoring and Sustainable in Vietnam What About Vietnam - Series 2 - 2 Shopping Vietnam | Tailoring | Designer | Sustainable Kerry Newsome: Hello, Judith, and welcome to what about Vietnam, this is where we get to talk about shopping in Vietnam. Yay! I can't wait to talk about shopping in Vietnam. Fantastic. I've been really looking forward to this episode as we get to, I don't know, pick your brains, delve into that bucket of knowledge you have about Vietnamese designers. And, I don't know, just the general shopping experience. Kerry Newsome: You certainly opened my eyes to Vietnam last time in shopping. So how about we kick things off with talking about a new traveler to Vietnam? Judith Treanor: If you were to steer them to a destination in Vietnam or destinations, where we may start, ....you're going to be a bit surprised to hear me say this, but the first place I would go would be to check out the souvenir shops and resort shops all over the country. Judith Treanor: That way you'll get a feel for the ubiquitous takeaways from Vietnam. The fact that we always take home one clinical and wellness cushion covers lacquered basket wear. These are the things you will find all over Vietnam. And you really do need to, you know, slip into the souvenir shops and see what's around. And once you've done that, then we can delve a bit deeper. And this is what I really want to talk about with you from there. Judith Treanor: So the three major shopping cities, of course, Hanoi, Saigon and Danang and in all three cities, what you're going to want to do is literally just walk around and explore, because there are so many hidden gems that you have to discover by walking, walking, walking in Hanoi. You could spend a couple of days just browsing the boutiques and gift shops that line the streets of the French Quarter. So excuse my pronunciation. Judith Treanor: But look the roads are all very short distances from Ho Kiem lake and the cathedral, which is basically where the main hotels are located at. Kerry Newsome: Isn't there shops with like funny names as well? Like what was that women's one was called women power or something? Judith Treanor: Ok, "Women Rock" women, minorities, women right there. That was nice. Judith Treanor: So that's Hanoi and in the center, if you're staying inside Saigon District one, it's almost compulsory to visit the massive Ben Than market as a first off, I guess it really is an important symbol of the city and it's just vast. You'll find hundreds of store holders. Amazing food with the pop up in there. Bit of a tip. Do take some water because it can get super hot and can get a little bit phobic. Let's face it. And it can be a bit daunting. But just a short walk from the market and you’ll find many hidden gem boutiques and gift stores in the roads around the famous Walking Street, and along Dong Khoi. One of my favourite streets for shopping in Saigon is Le Loi, across a busy road from Ben Thanh – in one short stretch of road you’ll find Ipanema Bags, Gingko, L’Usine, Duy Tan and Mekong Plus.If you’re not short on time in Vietnam I really urge you to delve deeper into what makes Vietnam the shoppers paradise it is. Judith Treanor: Remember, we found that old regenerated building that you would have no idea what you're going to find. And you walk up the steps and lots of steps look in,and just little local designers, boutiques and cafes that you'd never know existed. Kerry Newsome: You just go to one of those, as you say, which are quite hard to find, kind of hidden in very small doorways. And like, I would have walked right past that. I would not have seen that. And then all of a sudden you said no, that's not where we're going? And all of a sudden we're up those stairs and I've gone. Wow. There's just this amazing store with this amazing stuff. Yeah. Kerry Newsome: And you can easily lose a few hours of your day. And some days, I think what we've got to give here is some expertise about shopping on your trip, because it might not be something you do think about when you go to Vietnam. Judith Treanor: But it's a shopping paradise as we're going to get into. So one of my favorite strips/ streets in the center of Saigon is Le loi, which is just across. It's quite a major road on the other side of Benh Thanh Market. And in one short stretch of road, you'll find Ipanema bags, Gingko, L'Usine, Duy Tan, and Mekong Plus. These are all shops selling locally handmade, ethical and fashion homewares and gifts. And that's something else we're going to talk about as we go on. But there's a big emphasis on this locally have made an ethical and wonderful creations all over Vietnam. And so that's I guess those are the tips if you've got a short time in the country. But if you've got time just to delve a little bit deeper. Judith Treanor: I think you'll need to venture a short distance away from the center of each city. So in Hanoi, grab a taxi, go to the lake, which is also known as Westlake. Or if you're in Saigon go to the district 2, interestingly enough, these are both areas where the expats shop and live and where you'll find the best representation of Vietnamese artisan fashion and homewares. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, one of the areas where I think is not in mainstream. If you're you've just arrived into Vietnam, got off the plane, you know, in HCMC in particular, you just you land smack bang kind of, into District one, aren't you? Exactly. And so to go through to all those other areas. You've got to think a bit wider, and plan ahead. But also get some tips like we're talking about now about going to those districts and what to look for because, well, I was just blown away. Judith Treanor: That's it. Kerry Newsome: And I think the Vietnamese I mean, they're really known for artisanal crafts and the way they use traditional methods to create modern designs. I think first-timers might be surprised to know that there really is a flourishing fashion scene in Vietnam. And they even have their own annual fashion show each year featuring local designers. So if you have extra time, it might be an extra day. Go and find that out. Kerry Newsome: Ok, so, I mean, when I talk to travelers, you know, their first thoughts are, oh, it's going to be cheap. They want to get tailoring done. They want to you know, they definitely want to head off to the markets. But as you say, or we just started to touch on, there is definitely a design aspect to shopping now in Vietnam. It has kind of morphed a bit more, I think. So tell us a little bit more about that as far as actual products that travelers should be seeking out rather than you just, you know, the cheap, cheap stuff. Judith Treanor: But I mean, I go for the tailoring. No, that's not quite true. And going back and saying, yeah, OK, so I'm definitely into the tailoring, but there's more than just the time we're going to get to that. Judith Treanor: But what I'm going to say, I know you love tailoring and I know I'm going to say I'm a big fan of tailoring to, I particularly enjoy it. Kerry Newsome: And everyone has a favorite tailor that they can recommend. And let's not underestimate the sheer joy of having a design. You've seen an amazing design being made to measure for you at an affordable price within a couple of days. So here's a tip. If you go into high end, you do need a few days in your itinerary because you're going to need to go to the tailor to pick your designs and then have enough time to go back for your fittings and then. Exactly grab your goodies. Kerry Newsome: You need extra time. And I do recommend that for travelers to add a couple of days for that. Kerry Newsome: Yes. And the other thing we have to think about, though, totally concur. Judith Treanor: If you are having something made up by Tailor on holidays, please think about it. Judith Treanor: Is it something you are gonna wear when you get home? It's just a tip. We've all done it. We've gone on holiday and thought, that looks great. It's really hot. So it's a beautiful, cool fabric. You get how you make it. What was I thinking? So, you know, take some time, don't rush into it. Just a little tip there. But could we go on from tailors's just to buy something else in Hoi An as well. You'll have to tell us. What do I love. I love the shoe makers. Judith Treanor: You do love the shoes that all that goes with that. But I have to talk to my kids like me. Kerry Newsome: My because I mean,.. Shoe lovers like me. Kerry Newsome: Oh yeah. Oh yeah Judith Treanor: Hoi An's got about as many shoemakers as it does tailers. And the reason being is anyone knows that. And it's the centre of artisans, people and artists it has been for hundreds of years. That's what's attracted people to it. So these shoemakers and leather shops dotted all over. And here's my top top tip. If you take away one thing from this conversation today. If you've got a pair of shoes or boots that you love and you can't imagine ever not having them, but they on their way out because you've over worn them, put them in a your suitcase and you can get them copied. Judith Treanor: Should we be encouraging them to show up anyway? We're going to get them copied. And you could even have the other colours. Right now. It is winter in Sydney. And so my favorite season, but I have a pair of knee-high boots. I originally bought in cream but I've had them made up in blue and grey. So that's just, you know, take your favourite boots and shoes and get them copied. And the other thing is jewellery. But we're talking about. The shoemakers in the lac Viets jewelry make those in hand if I'm feeling the pain already. Yes, I again find them and find a design that you love or maybe something that you've had that's broken or you've lost. And you can have them remodeled Yep. And again, look, at a fraction of the price of what it would cost, even if you could find someone to do it at home because their labor cost is so low. Kerry Newsome: You're right. Judith Treanor: I know you want me to talk about that, and that is on an ethical side to shopping in Vietnam and that's what I really want to go into now. So there is so much in the way of distinctly Vietnamese fashion gifts and homewares that I really would never want to see if you have the time. What struck me first on my first visit to Vietnam years ago was just the abundance of color. Sheer color design is not sensible enough to use color in homewares and fashion. And there's also this pride in their history and culture that really comes through when you go to the shops. It comes through in designs of cushion covers that might have lanterns or the beautiful art deco tiles you see all over the place, cushion covers or tote bags. And also you see women in the traditional Ao Dai's represented on so much art and bags. And so where would you go to find that kind of thing? I'd say if you're on a "whistle-stop" tour of Vietnam of the city sorry, Vietnam, Saigon, Hanoi, look out for the concept stores that offer a sort of a capsule collection of local creations, one that you can go. Kerry Newsome: Can I just jump in on concept stores just to explain to our listeners just what is a concept store? Just to explain that. Judith Treanor: Sure. So it's almost like a capsule collection of something in a store that might have little sections of homewares and fashion accessories and gifts. It's like almost like a mini department store that's showcasing your local design to see local creations. So it's like a one-stop shop. Kerry Newsome: Ok, but different designers. So they're not all from the same company. They're all kind of individuals. Judith Treanor: Yeah, different brands. And we'll find in Vietnam that the concept stores are really supporting their local artisans, local designers and giving them a bit of a showcase. Kerry Newsome: And would you say.... Just sorry to interrupt just to talk about sustainability and that kind of curve in terms of fashion and homewares? You know,.... Is Vietnam staying ahead of that curve in the system? Is it coming through in that concept store kind of thing or. You know, I don't know. Tell us a bit more about that sustainability side of Vietnam in-depth and so on. We went to some places, where do you remember that handbag I bought that I think was made out of bottle tops, you've got one too I think, and you sell through your online store Temples and Markets. Kerry Newsome: And it was just the most fabulous bag. And it was all handmade and hand-stitched together. And when I wear it, you know people, people go "Oh that's just a fabulous bag." And then they look really closely and then they say that it's made of bottle tops and they just freak out. Judith Treanor: So interesting materials, recycled material, repurposed materials. And you're going to find that all over. You've got things like washable paper bags which I sell in my own online store. I've got a big collection of washable paper bags, I think because of Vietnam's shared resources in biodiversity it puts you in a unique position to easily source these eco-friendly materials. And they're really being used throughout as an emphasis on slow fashion and ethical production, which I've mentioned. So I think about something like bamboo. I mean, what an amazing resource. The Vietnamese, use it for clothing and furniture and then homewares and my favorite spun bamboo bowls and trays. And then you've got beautiful organic cottons and natural resources like the mulberry silks. So one little store that you'll find a few branches of in Saigon called Metiseko there is this divine mulberry silk collections that they says again that show the emphasis on sustainable and ethical production. Water hyacinth. Another thing which, you know, you'll see an awful lot of spun bamboo bowls across the country have been made ethically. They would have been made from water hyacinth, which is like a prolific root that goes through the waterways across the country, actually chokes some of the waterways. So that gets picked and dried out of traditional methods of handweaving. So, you know, when we were shopping in Saigon's district to really looking out for a couple of stores, that the emphasis on eco friendly. Remember the shop going around the corner, that was one that, again, they showcased as a little concept store showcasing kind of washable paper bags and sort of flower pots, recycled jewelry, and scarves. Judith Treanor: And then another one of your favorites was that Laiday Refill station where it had all kinds of personal care products, shampoos, conditioners, perfumes. And you can take it if you're local, you can take your bottles along and have them refilled with your favorite liquids. But actually, I was doing some research. What they also do is they are now recycling bottles from a nearby restaurant to the kids in the bottles and then you can go and refill your bottles with whatever you want to buy and stick with Yes, they are very resourceful. And I guess we can't mention recycling without talking about Future Traditions. Future Traditions is a fashion and accessories brand in Hanoi. If you have time to go and visit their beautiful showroom. They have this amazing colonial-style building, and they have a collection called Treasures from the Shipwreck Coast, which is the jewelry that's been made from broken bits of ceramics and glass that's been picked up, washed up on the beaches, washed up on it and then made in into jewelry. Yeah, well, one offs. That's the other thing. You know, when you talk about handmade, unique items, it's amazing to have your own one of kind of creation that yours. Kerry Newsome: But it's like, would you agree, Judith? It's a bit of a head shift for people because, you know, I'm thinking of 'knock offs' And, you know, I can remember, like 10, 12 years ago that the big thrill was to go to a store that did knockoff CDs and then they'd put them in the plastic sleeve folders. Judith Treanor: Do you remember that? And then one out of 10 worked. You had to get a certain kind of quality. Kerry Newsome: So like, you know, moving along the path from that kind of initial taste of Vietnam and shopping to what it is now is, is quite a stretch. And I think if people do go to Vietnam and think, oh, yes, sure, there are the bargains and there are the cheap knockoffs that are still there, very much so. But I think to close your mind, if you're going to Vietnam and just thinking that, you would be doing Vietnam and yourself a disfavor because it's much wider. As Judith is sort of talking about. And I think to look into some of the quality, you are going to have to pay for it. You know, it's definitely not cheap, it's not the copy stuff. It's one-offs and it's handcrafted. And I think that's something to mention. Kerry Newsome: And, you know, you might want to also talk about Chula. Judith Treanor: Yes, it's not cheap, but if you're talking about taking home memories here. Judith Treanor: And so, yes, if you take home a knockoff DVd we've all done in the past or even a copy,T-shirts that they love? Judith Treanor: The daddy, the puffy jackets that the people get, the copper. That's great. That's what you go to. The thing is, it's not going to remind you of Vietnam, though, is it? So, this is what I want to kind of emphasize. When I first went to Chula many, many years ago, I didn't have time. I was on one of those "top to bottom" tours and seeing a lot of the country in 60 days. I didn't have time for shopping. I didn't have the budget for shopping either. And but there was a couple of places that I managed to see and I couldn't get these prices out of my mind. So I think if you go anywhere when you go to Vietnam, you've got like an extra day, at least in Hanoi. To we're going to have to leave in a minute, but Tan My Design is something I really do want to mention. Tan My Design It's like a treasure trove. Let me talk about concept stores earlier. It's on three levels and it's got like this high quality jewelry, all in the one place. They've got a little cafe downstairs where if you get tired from all the shopping, you go down, have a coffee. We generally go back up. But there is so much representative of all the designers and everything that's going on across the country in that one shop. And it's Chula does have a collection there. A quick mention of Chula. And when I first saw them years ago, I couldn't get the elegance and the color out my head and I've become a huge fan. If you take home a piece of Chula. So, they are Spanish designers that made Vietnam their home years ago. They've got a beautiful ethical workshop where 75 percent of the workers are disabled. I've been lucky enough to go to that showroom. Everything's cut and sewn by hand and they call it wearable happiness. I think we want to take this away, actually, a take-home piece of wearable happiness. Treat yourself and then you'll have a piece of Vietnam. I'm with you. There is wonderful memories. Kerry Newsome: And you're right, I mean, sometimes you know, maybe I've got to be careful when I say this, but, you know, in the male audience, they don't kind of rate the shopping experience so much. But I think when we think about this a little bit wider and as we're talking about "wearable happiness", memories of Vietnam shopping, you know, it is a way to invest back into the country to support locals and local industries. And as a developing country, I think for me personally, and I know you're the same Judith, that is sort of something that we want to do because we love Vietnam so much. And so to just talk about shopping as in like we're going to go to Myers in Australia, or we're going to go to a major shopping center. It's not like that. Its not like that at all. No. It's your entry into the culture of Vietnam. I mean, some of these stores are also fixed price that you're talking about. They are not stores where you're going to be bargaining like you would in a street stall or in a market. So they're fixed price items, they are high quality,you know, one-offs. And I know with Chula and then it's the experience of the actual store. I mean, that Chula store that you talk about is just so beautifully laid out. It's like you walk into it and you go, oh, my God, I could almost sit down, have dinner here or a glass of wine or sangria and take it all in. Judith Treanor: Yeah, its that explosion of color that hits you, that's what it is. And I think also, Maybe I shouldn't have emphasized fashion so much because I think that the vast majority of shopping in Vietnam to me is actually about the homewares, to be honest. And it's not the lacquerware for travel. Well, let's talk about art for a second. I think taking home a piece of art, there's nothing else that you can. What are the better ways there to remember a trip overseas? Have you taken something from a local artist? And you're going to find small galleries all over the country. You can get to speak to the artists and meet interesting people, find out their stories. Judith Treanor: And you know that that's for men and women. Exactly. Kerry Newsome: And the photography, there's some beautiful photography by Rehahn in Hoi An I've got it all over my walls in my house. Judith Treanor : I think we need to make special mention of art in Vietnam, and particularly Hoi An. For a travel lover, I think bringing home a piece of art is one of the best ways to keep memories of holidays alive. Small galleries are prolific in all the major tourist centres and most will ship your art back home for you. In Hoi An particularly there are countless galleries showcasing paintings, drawings, prints and lacquered art. Seek out the authentic lacquered art galleries where the artists use the traditional techniques and real lacquer on wood as a medium (Ngàn Xưa Gallery). A lot of the lacquered art is mass produced and some use plastic instead of wood. March Gallery and HaHa curate work from local artists and are both a good place to start your Vietnam art journey. Also, you absolutely have to go to French Photographer Rehahn’s museum and gallery Precious Heritage where you can purchase prints of his incredible photos taken from around Vietnam. I just want to touch on something that might also surprise visitors to Vietnam and that is the growth of the sustainability movement which you can’t help but notice once you veer off the tourist track on your Vietnam shopping journey. Vietnam’s biodiversity puts her in a unique position to easily source eco-friendly materials for slow fashion and ethical production. One to watch is - Future Traditions clothing blends the stunning textiles of Vietnam’s many ethnic minority communities with contemporary designs. sourcing textiles from the remote mountain communities in Northern Vietnam, Future Traditions seeks to encourage an appreciation for the skill involved in creating the fabrics produced in these areas. The long term goal of Future Traditions is to make the continued production of these increasingly rare textiles financially viable for local communities Kerry Newsome; Judith we could talk forever on this subject. I thank you most sincerely for coming on and sharing your knowledge.

S4-02 Fine Dining Vietnam Fine Dining in Vietnam with talented chefs Episode 2 S4-02 Fine Dining Vietnam 00:00 / 46:29 Meet some of Vietnam’s talented chefs. Vietnam is legendary for its street food and fresh flavoursome cuisine. However you may be surprised to find out it also has a fast growing "Fine Dining" industry championed by some very talented Chefs. Hear what they have to say about their style of cuisine and restaurant experience. The best part of dining out at one of the Vietnam's top-tier restaurants is the sense of occasion it brings, and my guest Raj Taneja due to his leadership and culinary knowledge of the association la Chaine des Rotisseurs, is our guide to what we can expect to enjoy in fine dining in Vietnam. Raj's role within Chaîne des Rôtisseurs enables him to visit and review many fine culinary establishments and 5 star hotels in Vietnam. This makes him the ideal guest to speak about Vietnam's growing love of fine dining and world class status. Some of the chefs mentioned in the show:- 1. Chef Joon Chi 2. Chef Nico Ceccomoro 3.Chef Alession Rasom 4. Chef Sakal Phoeung 5. Chef Hoang Tung Download the full transcript including all the links to the restaurants and hotels mentioned in the show. Photo Credit: https://vietnam.chainedesrotisseurs.com/?lang=en Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

f869da4e-5155-49cf-a089-fb57696dcfa9How much time to allow for a visit and to where. What About Vietnam - Series 3 -15 - Vietnam travel Part 2 How much time do you need? Kerry Newsome: 00:35 Xin Chào and welcome to What About Vietnam. This is part two of the series with Miquel Angel. And today we unwrap just what you can fit in to a 14 day tour of Vietnam . And statistically, why is it that people who visit Vietnam traditionally, it seems, only visit once. And I think you're going to be very amused to find some of the reasons why. And they're very simple, but they happen often. And I think this is a great chance for you to get some information that may help you make some wiser decisions with tours that you're choosing and things that you're really trying to fit into. That average stay widget seems to be around about the 14 days. 01:29 In this part two episode, we look at the Central and the Mekong areas. And I think that's going to give you some insights to maybe consider chunking down your holiday into regions. With the option to revisit at another time. Please welcome Miquel again to the show as my very, very special guest as he is the Head of the Human Resources and Quality Working Group inside Vietnam Tourism Advisory Board. Let's say hello to Miquel. Miquel Angel: 02:16 Oh, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, from wherever you are listening to the podcast. This is Miquel Angel talking to you from Vietnam in Kerry Newsome's program. It's my pleasure just to be here. Hope you enjoyed our talk today. Kerry Newsome: 02:29 Miquel it is absolutely wonderful to have you on the show. And just to have time with you to unpack some of the things that we've been talking about, about Vietnam and tourism to Vietnam. So welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Miquel Angel: 02:47 Thank you very much. My real, real pleasure. I'm one of the regular listeners and followers. I'm learning a lot from the people who participate and come to join. So, I'm happy just to be here and share my few bits and bats after these 22 years, working and developing here tourism in Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: 03:08 Okay, Miquel, tell us a little bit more about your role within the Vietnam Tourism Advisory Board just so we get context. What keeps you busy? Miquel Angel: 03:22 Absolutely. Yes. Well, that I will say this is something that came naturally to me. I'm originally from near Barcelona, in Catalonia, Spain, where we develop the tourism many years ago. So being here in Vietnam, working in tourism and hospitality, after several years, right to appoint that the authorities, the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism here in Vietnam, they contact me, and they say that "Miquel, we would like you to be one of our members at the Vietnam Tourism Advisory Board", which is an entity that was created just to advise the ministry on everything related to tourism. 03:59 So, inside that board is not me only, now we have a large team of professionals that we are learning from all the different parts of the world. We have different working groups, and some related to marketing, some other related to the visa policies. You may see if you know Vietnam or you've been here, that the visa issue is starting to get better. Some countries are visa exempt. Some other they have less paperwork or less red carpet. So, we have some working on that behind the scenes even you don't see as much. 04:33 We keep working and making good things for Vietnam. And there are other people working on the marketing side. So, if you take a look, for example, at the website, we did develop with a team called Vietnam.Travel.com ". You will see that a lot of new upgrades and with my lovely friends there, but I think you also know Kerry, we've been developing and including their hashtags and content, pictures and it is a very good, nice way of coming virtually to Vietnam where you will see there, the real things that we are doing here. 05:05 Some other chapters they are working more on paperwork, means letters that we sent to the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism and the Vietnam National Administration of Tourism. Also, to the Prime Minister, we have the sent some letters to him, because we want him to be aware what to do. And last but not least, it is the working group, I'm heading, that I'm in charge of the Human Resources, which these days is really, really huge point here, plus quality, Working Group on this quality, we include there environmental, civil, economy and everything back for Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: 05:38 You pack a big punch as far as-- there's a lot involved. And just the little bit that I know about the board, yeah, it has evolved, it has truly evolved, and just saying what you've done with the website, what you've done with visas, and I think we're going to unpack a little bit more about that in this show. So, one thing that came up in our chat, when we were talking about doing the show together, was, we were talking about the traveler that comes to Vietnam, unusually so, only usually comes once. 06:22 We talked about that, in comparison to other travelers who go to, say, Thailand, and they go to Phuket, Bali, maybe even Singapore, Hong Kong, and other major places in the Southeast Asian region. But they tend to be frequent visitors, they go back several times. But you inform me that that is actually not a statistic about the average tourist to Vietnam, that they come once. And they don't tend to come back again. And between you and I, we think that is an injustice to Vietnam. And they're missing out on a lot of things. Am I right? Miquel Angel: 07:10 Yes, you're right. I was thinking a couple of years ago, that we were not treating the arrivals and the visitors so well. That's why the people were not returning back to Vietnam, because, aside from Vietnam, I've been working in Thailand and living there, in Laos, in Cambodia. And that was a question that why people repeat their trips and go to other destinations 1, 2, 3, 4 times, and here, to Vietnam, you come once in a lifetime and never return again, when the people, the scenery, the food, the resources, the attractions are huge. And you cannot finish in one trip unless you are here in Vietnam for two or three months. 07:53 So, to bring these into the scene, I will say the average traveler time that people come to visit Vietnam, either from Australia where you are, either from Europe when I'm coming from or United States, is approximately 14 days, let's say two weeks, they update down. And you have to consider that depending on where you're coming from. You have the first day or two controlling your jetlag, you're coming from Europe, you're 17 hours on a plane, you're coming from the US, either via Japan, San Francisco, either from New York coming to Europe, here you spend more than a day on a plane. So, when you arrive here, the first thing you want to find is you’re not noisy hotel if possible and control a bit your jet lag. From Australia, you have a bit less hours but depending also on which part of Australia, you want to visit Vietnam. 08:50 So that said, let's say that if you're planning to have your two weeks holidays because your job, because your summer break or whatever. The first day is flying and controlling your jetlag. So, we are moving now to 13 days. And let's not make any second or last day jetlag. Let's say that during the first day, you are a good traveler, you drink lots of water you do what you have to do, and you are ready to go on the second day. Day 13 there. 09:19 So, now the tour operators and travel agents are doing and Kerry you know much better than me, is preparing, of course, beautiful programs, for these 13 days or 13 nights that you will be here in Vietnam. And I've been working preparing that programs and following the tour guides doing the programs, because I do want to see the reality of what the tour guides and the tour operator and DMCs are doing. I say, I read I saw a brochure and I never-- no, I go, I'm chauffeured with them at 50 degrees Celsius under the Huế Citadel, and I go and cue to go to the toilet on that destination. That is crowded full of Chinese visitors. And that's my job. That's what I do. I am enjoying. I'm worried when I say, I enjoy, because I really enjoy doing that. With my beautiful little students, or professional tour guide by my side, which I love them very much. We have excellent talks, the tour guides can change the way you see Vietnam forever, a lot of attention to them. Kerry Newsome: 10:26 Absolutely. And I think keeping it real for people is key. And it's something in this program that I want to continue doing. So, you are saying that you actually go along and follow the tour guides, you sit in the buses, [crosstalk] at the toilets, etc., that's to give a really good appreciation of what a tourist is trying to jam pack, into a day by day. So, let's just flush that out a little bit more, because in traditional tours of that type, of 14 days, they're also not seeing just one location, they're usually seeing maybe two or three locations. 11:10 As we both agreed, those hops from second, to third, to fourth place also eat up time. Because people say, "Oh, look, it's only a 100 kilometers in a bus, that can't be too bad." Now you and I both know that some of those roads and some of those busses are terrible and a 100 kilometers on a fantastic freeway, Sure, no problem. But if it's going into maybe some of the northern regions up into Mai Chau or Ha Giang, and they are exquisite destinations, but they probably take eight hours. Miquel Angel: 11:54 Well, these two hours bus trip can ruin the whole of your trip, if you are not prepared, ready, or know what is going to happen. Happens to me on, but because of these bad trips, or the way Vietnamese drivers or myself drive here in Vietnam, that's the way we drive, and risking our life and just hardening and counter crossing on the street, and some market in the middle of the street near a container cargo going back to Australia or wherever. So that's the Vietnam tour. So, the point here, link to the small explanation before, if we need to prepare the 13 days trip. And you are telling me that you have 13 days to visit the whole country? Let me revert that question back to your most Australian listeners. Can I come to Australian visit the whole Australia in 13 days? Kerry Newsome: 12:49 No way. No chance at all? Miquel Angel: 12:52 Then that's what the people are trying to do with Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: 12:54 Exactly. And that was what rang a bell with me. And when we started talking and is to me, the real guts of this story is, people trying to jam pack a whole country, a long skinny dragon of a country where it's just not achievable. So, people leave with an impression of Vietnam, which is like-- it must be like a snapshot. I can remember back- I think the very, very first trip I did was like back in 2007. And I'm married to someone in the army. And I did this traditional, what we're talking about a top to bottom trip. And he said to me, "That sounds like a reconnaissance trip." He said, "You're going to see where you need to go back to, where you want to spend more time, where there are day trips you can do from us." And I said, “Exactly.” 14:01 But we you and me today, I think we really need to unpack that for people and explain that that's kind of logical. But you see on the internet, everywhere, everyone's selling these 14 days, top to bottom or bottom to top tours. And everybody just ends up exhausted. I was talking to a girl the other day, she was managing the sailing club, [sysco 14:30] Monet, and she said, "Some travelers decide, they are just exhausted by the end of it. And they just go to Monet, and they just lie on the beach for five days. And then they make that day lasting memory." And she said, "But they come back every year. But they were smart enough to do this." So, on this basis, today let's unpack a 14 day trip. And let's unpack it into some regions and talk about it from that context so that we can give my listeners some reality to what to expect. So, let's start with 14 days. 15:13 Where should people start? If we are not going to give them the reconnaissance trip, where should they maybe start to get a really good feel for Vietnam? Miquel Angel: 15:27 I will say, if you are coming here to Vietnam, you either rise to Ho Chi Minh City or Hanoi from international destination. And some flights are now starting to go to Damen but doesn't really matter. It is also a good option. So, you go to Ho Chi Minh City, and visit South and Central part of Vietnam, or you go to Hanoi and visit the north and central part of Vietnam, wherever your choice is. So, let's give a short flashback on South part and another one on the North Park. And from there, we develop more, or we see what's going on there. When you arrive here to Ho Chi Minh City, the airport at the moment is located inside the city. So, it's quite fast. Half an hour, you are in the city center, there are planning in the future to do a new airport, but it is still on the plans to do. 16:18 So here, in the south part of Vietnam, aside of Ho Chi Minh City, that you have, at least I will say two days to visit a bit, some of the museums and some of the things you haven’t, you have the Mekong Delta, which is a place that is not to be missed, because the Mekong Delta, I will say is what they call the greenery of Vietnam, there are 20 million people living there producing rice, fish farms, coconut industry, which is huge, and you have two or three days just do get lost there and do your bicycle, do your boat, do your gorilla, mangrove check. And if you come there only for a day trip, you are missing the essence of that is Mekong's way of living. Either one you just wander one day, do walk in the morning, and try some coconut candy, by the Bhaskar and get into a box or a small tank either and return back to your country that's Mekong. Kerry Newsome: 17:15 Don't forget the photo shoot, [crosstalk] selfie and all the rest of it and get that out quickly. You've got 15 minutes to do that and step on the bus. Miquel Angel: 17:25 And that's the Mekong Delta visit that you did, fantastic, in three hours. So, that's the day that you can get lost there. Now at this point in time, some very nice hotels next to rivers, these may come area, they call it like six tons, where you can stay, cycle, get lost, get some minorities also, the Chàm people who are living in Vietnam, so that is to make on site. More attractions in the south can be Tây Ninh, for example, which is the exactly the spot where the Caodai religion is and where all the monks related to that religion. So, it is spectacular to go there and see the way they pray. The churches, the way of life they have and sit down and have a drink with them. Kerry Newsome: 18:10 Where is this, Miquel? Miquel Angel: 18:12 This is Tây Ninh Province, which is a bordering Cambodia province, two hours from Ho Chi Minh City, new corners. I love when you discover the corners you never been to, maybe your next visit to Vietnam, we should take a ride and go there. Absolutely amazing. I bring people there. Not many, because I cannot fit this in a 13 day problem. That's a problem. So, more things you want to see here in the south part of Vietnam is the famous Củ Chi Tunnels. And what you can observe there, how the Vietnamese guerrilla went underground with the tanks. Even if you want to shoot, they're in a very safe area, do some shots, it is nice to see that and see how the Củ Chi local guides explain to you what happened to them and their families. Kerry Newsome: 18:58 If we stay in Saigon for a moment. I think sometimes the first impression of the city is only district one. And it took me several trips to understand, Saigon has more sides to it, a little bit like Paris has districts. Saigon also has other districts. There's the Chinese, the Tan Binh. I did an episode with a travel writer, Samantha Kumar who came on, and she was able to pick about five districts, that somebody normally just gets off the plane, gets straight to--because as you say, they're exhausted. That first impression of Saigon is just a crazy mess. It's just a haba, haba, haba and, 3 trillion bikes but they haven't actually traversed the city itself to some of the more sedate and some of the more interesting- especially by the river, they've spent so much money on developing some of these areas, it's a shame. 20:02 The other thing I want to mention about Saigon, which also took me a few visits to get right, was to understand the shopping site. Now, I know I'm talking to a male. And there's a shopping-- probably a part of your brain switching off at this point, and probably for any male listening, but there are some unique opportunities to experience some artisans that are creating some really amazing stuff. And there's also some great social enterprises that are selling some really unique stuff. So, if you want something from Vietnam, that doesn't say it's made in China, then definitely you've got to kind of delve in a little bit deeper into that area. 20:49 I want to also draw everyone's attention to, what I call the cafe building. Now, likewise, that is a place that you'll see a lot in your Instagram photos, etc., you wouldn't probably get in the lift to go up into that building. You're nodding. Yeah, I agree. So, you have to walk up the stairs, but it is worth the trip to walk up those stairs, because around every single corner, there was something unique, something different, whether it was a coffee shop, or a boutique. Like that building just has evolved into this treasure trove of all places. There's some- where you walk past and the door is very, very small. And if you walk past it, you've missed it. So, you've got to go up those stairs. 21:49 So if you're going to the Mekong Delta, or you want to go to Cần Thơ, or you want to experience some parts of Vietnam that have been operating for like hundreds of years, then you do need to breathe, you need to slow down and you need to take it in and breathe it in, where if you've got to get back on the bus and you've done five selfies and tick, tick, tick, the operator has done his job. The tour guide is also running at 100 miles an hour. You're not really getting the best of Vietnam. So, I think we're on the same page. 21:49 And you've just got to delve a little bit deeper into the city, rather than just as you said, making sure you hit four temples in 10, markets, tick, tick, tick, tick. And I want to just make sure I get this right for the listeners as well is, because purchase this trip. And it's listed on its itinerary. The onus is on the company to make sure you do see every single one on that trip. So, it's not anyone's fault. It's just that we, you, and me, thankfully, would like you to maybe unpack the trip, so that it doesn't make it slow or boring. But it allows you to breathe, and really get-- and I think you used a great word, the essence of the place. Miquel Angel: 23:25 Yeah, well, what happens that after, if you do this, latest sentence, you were telling, you never return back to Vietnam, because what they are doing to you, is not what you really wish. And you don't really want to be there at that moment, you are not enjoying a trip. So, me I'm bringing some customers, even some residents here in Ho Chi Minh City, to taste the coffee of two sisters, that are doing, because one already passed away. They've been doing for 150 years, doing coffee. And they use a kind of sock that they put the coffee inside. And they have a fireplace there on the floor. And we go there to drink their coffee. So, it was packed by the old Vietnamese people. 24:08 So, I go there and just listen to the tables, talking about the war, about how we won these and won that, it is an amazing process. And I showed this corner to some Vietnamese residents that they never been there. And they say, "Whoa, how do you know these places? I like to walk around all these things that you just mentioned there." And aside of that, there is a very nice colleague here in Ho Chi Minh City that the public already books here on the corners and unknown corners here in Ho Chi Minh City And what that buildings were during the French, the US war era, and the Vietnamese. 24:42 So that's really, really an experience, just to go there walking, that's some walking, you do not need the tour guide, if you don't want, you can do it by yourself. And this will be available everywhere. It's not the secret. So, the point here is that in these programs, of course, the tour operators and the agents they need to fill in and make big problems with many things inside, otherwise, you will not buy a program, where you go to Ho Chi Minh City, two days, they're doing nothing. 25:08 But my question is that sometimes, if you buy one of these programs, because the price is very good, because sometimes they flip the whole plane and the whole program wherever, what you have to do is tell to your tour guide, "Listen, I'm highly paid for this trip. In this pay, in this condition, I'm the owner of the trip. And I want to decide what to do with my money and my trip. So please get lost for three hours. And you tell your company that we visit everything in the program, you don't worry, I will not sue you or your tour operator back in Australia, or back in Europe. And give me that three hours for me to breathe. And just get into that building that you say there and enjoy a cup of tea, or a cup of coffee, and you pick up the ride after three hours." That's the way you see the real Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: 25:59 I sell these tours [crosstalk] to Vietnam. But I sell them under the guise that when I talk to the travel agents and say, "Look, there's a lot packed into this tour, do you really think you want to include all of that? We can do it, sure. But is your customer, your travelers going to want to do it?" And then I have, a bit like you just to be a mystery traveler in a group. I have joined the group. So, say, I catch up with them. And they're halfway through. So, they're in Hậu Giang, and it is 50 degrees in the shade. Miquel Angel: 26:38 And you are still walking. Kerry Newsome: 26:41 They're still-- they're up to, I don't know, the walking tour of Hậu Giang, or something like that. And now exhausted and just gone. We just want to have a day rest. And I actually had to remind some of the travelers and say, "If you do not want to do what the tour guy says, you can say, 'You know what, I will meet you back here at four o'clock. And you know that beautiful coffee shop you were talking about before? Go back and have a coffee there.' Just sit and people watch. Just take it in, you are not obliged to literally go and do everything." 27:17 And they said, "Can we just do that now?" And I said, "Absolutely, you can." The tour companies are trying to give you everything, if you want it, but you don't have to do it. And as you say, you're not going to sue the company and blah, blah, blah. And there were some people who don't, if they don't get everything ticked on those boxes, Miquel, they do get up in arms, and they go, "I bought this tool package and it said, we were going to do for temples and blah, blah, blah." I don't get that, they're unhappy, and they're not satisfied. And all the rest of it. 27:51 But I think it's a nice idea, like you said, for people to be reminded they have choice. And they have the ability, master of their own destiny to say, "Hey, thanks for the offer. But I'm just going to chill out here and I'll come back and pick up that- Oh, yes, I'll do that show in Hậu Giang." The AO show, say for example, that might be included in the tour. And yeah, we'll do that but, in the meantime, we're just going to go off and do our own thing. And you are totally entitled to do that. But these people were aghast, they couldn't believe it that they could make their own choice and I said, "Go, just tell the tour guide, that that's what you're doing, so he's accounted for you, off you go!" Miquel Angel: 28:36 I think, here in Vietnam, sometimes it is kind of strange, that the person who's paying for a trip, call it whatever amount of Australian dollars or euros or US dollars, whatever, you are paying for something, that you arrive to a destination there and looks like you have no right anymore. You're paying- not a cheap tour, we're talking about here $100, you are paying an amount of money here, including your flight, your hotels, wherever, and sometimes you have no time to sit down one hour to have a fresh beer at 50 degrees Celsius. 29:14 So, you have the permission, like- to the tour guide to say, "Can I please sit down here for an hour and sip these beautiful Vietnamese fresh beer, one, two, or three, or five." I know, Australians do not drink one beer, I do. "And come to pick me up not in three hours, in six hours. Go home and forget about my dinner. I already paid for it.” So probably the restaurant is already happy because they already received money. And you see down there to eat some chicken feet, with [inaudible 29:46]. That's lovely experience. 29:48 So, happens rarely. And I know that because I've been on that tour there, and I see the people excruciating, really hot. Don't forget, we're in a tropical country and hot means really, really hot and make your beautiful white skin really, really lobster, red color. Don't play with the sun, even in the morning, you don't go to the beach here in Vietnam, from 9am to 3pm ever. Sometimes some of us will say, "Yes, yes, yes. I'm used to the beach, I go there in Australia, in Europe, I go to the beach." You don't go to the beach in Vietnam, at that time, zero Vietnamese are there. We go to beach 6am-8am or 4pm-6pm, for a reason. Kerry Newsome: 30:38 I can remember, someone asked me once, they said, "Oh you know", it was the middle of the day, and we're at the beach, etc. And they're saying, "I don't see many locals." And I said, "No, they're the smart ones. They're at home under the air conditioning." So, if we talk about the South, I really, really want to put in the episode notes, the name of the place near Cambodia. So, I'll get that off you later. 31:03 But yes, you have got access to the Mekong Delta. I mean, even a river cruise, there are some wonderful river cruises to take in that region as well. But once again, things not that you have to be rushing, rushing, because we've got to fit in the Củ Chi Tunnels, and we've got to do all this kind of stuff, all in this 14 days. Because I think, if we can get the traveler to have something left out, they will come back and they'll say, "Gee, we only saw this part and it was full on. Next time we want to do the north or next time we want to do the central region." OUTRO 31:42 Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What about Vietnam! Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam. What about Vietnam!

2680acaa-0464-444a-81fb-2efe1910fc5aVietnam is the ideal place for social enterprise travel What About Vietnam - 2-14 Gain a deeper love of travel through North Vietnam through Social Enterprises Emily Lush Podcast - Talking about North Vietnam and Social Enterprise Kerry Newsome : So today I'm lucky enough to be talking to Emily Lush . Now, where is Emily going to take us? She's going to take us on a different kind of adventure. We will get to go to some beautiful places, meet and hear about some very interesting people, communities, and minority groups. And she's going to take us into an area that they call Social Enterprise. And what does that mean? What does that bring to an experience in Vietnam? Please say hello to Emily Lush. Emily Lush: Thank you, Kerry. I'm very happy to be here. Kerry Newsome : I'm delighted to have you on the program now. For the uninitiated, Tell us what Social Enterprise is all about and what it means to you? Emily Lush: Right? So Social Enterprise. It's sometimes easier to start by saying what it's not. So a Social Enterprise is not a charity. It's not volunteering. It's a business much like any other business. It differs in the way that it's more holistic model, so it's often underpinned by a strong social cause or message. There's often an environmental aspect to the business, so sustainability is really important. But most importantly, it's about community and society and driving change on a specific issue or empowering a specific group of people through business activities or services or products. It could be led by an individual or by a non government organization. They often set up Social Enterprises to help people. and yeah, it's really about bringing the whole community, to share in the success of a business. So sometimes you'll see profits reinvested back into a community fund or something like that. Everyone can benefit from this. It is really, really important in Vietnam, a country where, you know, they've made absolutely monumental progress on a whole lot of issues in the last couple of decades. But there's still some things below the surface. , women's rights, ethnic minority rights. Human trafficking is still a big problem in Vietnam, so you'll often see Social Enterprises that target these issues in really innovative ways. , this is gonna be really important. It has been really important. It's gonna be even more important in a post covid world, especially when travelers they're looking for deeper ways. Thus a chance to give back and engage with communities when we do get to travel again. So Vietnam has been really progressive in terms of Social Enterprise. It's been written into their laws. Since 2014, things have been created, like a really good environment for Social Enterprise to flourish. It's given birth to a whole range of different Social Enterprises. So in tourism you'll see restaurants, cafe souvenir shops, homestays, tour companies, and a whole range of projects that are working under this Social Enterprise model. , and I want to give you a few examples because I think it's easier sometimes to sort of understand how it works when you have something concrete to look at. So a couple of my favorites and I know you're familiar with a couple of these.. So KOTO , which is a training restaurant, , in Hanoi and Saigon. They have a couple of different branches across the country, and they are a restaurant and a cooking school, but they work with disadvantaged youth. , people who have come from, you know, terrible circumstances often, and they train them. They give them the tools that they need to work in the restaurant and to go on and start their own projects later in life. Another one I really like. is called Zo Paper . So as you say, your paper. So it's run by, ah, young woman in Hanoi, and her mission is to revitalize this'll dying art of handmade paper on bits only done in specific villages in the north. So she set up this beautiful little shop. , I hope it's still operating. , but her project is ongoing, and she does workshops and tours and has a beautiful website as well, where you can buy gift cards, earrings, all kinds of things made from this paper. And because she sources the paper from these sort of small villages, she's helping keep that industry alive and also give economic opportunities to these artisans who otherwise, , don't really have a place to sell to sell their stuff. So there's a couple of examples from Hanoi. But you can find Social Enterprises all over Vietnam in Hoi An and Danang there's a lot of cafes. So you have, like Reaching Out Teahouse life, and 9Grains Bakery , those kind of operations and then in the north outside of Hanoi, you have, like SAPA and those beautiful areas where Social Enterprises are really, you know, working with that environment and taking people to remote areas, um, as part of their as part of the operation. So there's so much to find in Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: And this subject is obviously something close to your heart, which you kind of can hear in your voice.I mean, what is it about Social Enterprise that drives you? Emily Lush: Maybe I'm so interested in culture, in material culture especially so, like costume and textiles and all these beautiful things that you find in, , in communities. And I think Social Enterprise is a really nice gateway to experience those things on a deeper level. I always, you know, love the experience of going into a small community, um, in a respectful way and being able to encounter those things sort of at the source. And I think Social Enterprise, because of the way it's structured, it gives travelers a lot of opportunities. to have those kind of deep experiences and to speak and learn from people firsthand, it’s just amazing. It's so enriching for a travel experience. Kerry Newsome: And I think for a traveler who wants, kind of a more authentic experience. Ah, little bit more immersive, not so rehearsed. And for want of a better description “tourism curated”. I think you're right. I think it does offer that opportunity. But out of all the places in the world that you could pursue this passion, What was it about Vietnam that inspired you to visit. Emily Lush : I love Southeast Asia. I I traveled there a couple of years ago, and I absolutely fell in love with the textiles, especially. I think, you know, I had spent time in the region previously, and I was really drawn to Vietnam just because of the sort of contrast. It's, you know, it's part of the region, but it's a little bit different. , especially in the North. I was really interested in learning more about the remote communities, which, you know Vietnam is kind of the place to do that. So that's what attracted me to find Vietnam. I just feel very comfortable there. I find it an easy place, to travel and to live, which is what I ultimately ended up doing. So those things combined with a beautiful heritage, but also that very forward thinking approach to tourism, which I really found, you know, perfect. To stay there long term and to really, you know, go deeper into some of these places and Social Enterprises was very personally rewarding. Kerry Newsome: And we're probably going to talk on another session about the difference between actually visiting a place. And as you said, um, you were able to visit there for a month or so, but then decided to come back and live there for a year, which I guess offered you the opportunity to do smaller trips and things basing yourself in Hanoi. So you have to tell us now some of the places in Vietnam that Social Enterprise took you too. I'm sure there's some stories to tell, , in those regions, whenever I do talk to people that venture out, you know, when they get off the tourist laid down track, when they venture into, as you say, those those those very local communities and minority groups, I just love to hear some of the places that you've been to, and I'm sure my audience would as well. Emily Lush : Yeah, I was very lucky getting to travel so much around the North, especially so. But I'll start by saying that I think giving or pursuing Social Enterprise. Uh, you know, it gave me a different perspective on Hanoi as well. So Hanoi is a very big, sometimes an anonymous city and seeking out these places, I made some incredible relationships and got to experience um, really, really fantastic social projects that are happening in Hanoi. So I think it could be enriching even if you're just in the city as well. But outside of the city, I I had some incredible travel experiences. So there are two places in particular that stand out, and I visited both these places with Social Enterprise groups. So the first one is HaGingi, that's spelt H a G i N G. So it's the area in Vietnam east of Sapa. But it's still along the border with China, and this is sometimes called a Sapa alternative or the new South because it's, , it's fairly remote. It's not very touristy at the moment. It was the last part of Vietnam to sort of open up to tourists. It takes a long time to get there, which is one of the things one of the trade offs and Kerry Newsome : it's got. I think it features in a lot in photos. You know when when they show northern Vietnam, all those windy, bendy roads and switchbacks, etcetera, that’s the region you are talking about, right? Emily Lush: Yes, that's thet region. Exactly. So one thing to do in HaGing, Is jump on a motorbike and go hustling around those roads very slowly, and with great caution. But look, I've lived in Southeast Asia for a long time and never driven a motorbike. So it's not my thing, and I was traveling with my dad, so we had a different experience and this is part of the reason we went with the Social Enterprise because they do tours by car. So we were able to go up there, with a private driver and a guide who is very embedded in the community and works with a lot of people up there. And it was just a terrific experience and we had that adventure, but, you know, from the safety of our comfort zone. so it was kind of ah, blend of off those two things. Kerry Newsome: I think you're right. I think it's up to the individual how they want to experience that region in particular. There's certainly the people who do it on bikes and just rave about it. I'd probably be a little bit more like you, Emily. I'd probably be doing it from the comfort of a car. Those windy roads and bends. However, I could tell you on a on a bus, etcetera, you know, can be, um, quite difficult for people who suffer with car sickness, because it is out there!!! isn't it? It's quite untouched, which is a marvel in itself, I think. And that's what Vietnam offers that people don’t know. I think in the first sense people think trillions and trillions of motorbikes. But it does have ah lot of wide open, beautiful spaces, and I think post Covid It's going to draw those travelers, and I'm hoping that they will follow your lead a little bit in the Social Enterprise space because I think from a recovery perspective, that's what Vietnam is going to need. And I think they do it better than, a lot of countries. For some reason, they just have a great community spirit, which is why they dealt with Covid better than many other countries because they were concerned about their own community. So anyway, that's one of your favorites, or that's a standout. Tell us, tell us more. Emily Lush: Another one I wanted to mention is a place called Da Bac, Đà Bắc is a rural district of Hòa Bình Province in the Northwest region of Vietnam and it kind of borders on Hanoi.. So it's just about three hours west of the capital via, another very bumpy sort of treacherous road. But this part of Vietnam is pretty, you know, it's not known among tourists at all. It's pretty remote again, while still being, you know Ah, a lot closer to Hanoi. So here in Da Bac there is a project run by the NGO called Action on Poverty , who has a strong presence in Australia as well. I went over there to check out their homestays. They work with a network of villages, around a reservoir. Really beautiful environment, and they've worked with a range of families to set up homestays in these beautiful Traditional wooden homes. They do meals, you know, they've had, really practical training and catering to tourist's needs so they can do anything you need. Vegetarian, vegan, whatever. Beautiful homestays, really comfortable places. And then just this pristine environment. Rice fields for days. You know, the classic Vietnam that you sort of conjure up when you think about traveling in the north Just a really beautiful part of the country. And one thing that I did there that is very memorable and sort of sticks out with a traditional red dao herbal bath. So you can do this in other places but well, but they offer them in in Da Bac, and you basically sit in a wooden like barrel that is a traditional bath, and they fill it up with water and these medicinal herbs that they've collected from around the village on the water gets heated up with this special wood, um and you sit in the bath and soak. And in this particular room at a homestay where I was. It was just offered a window overlooking the rice fields, and you just sit there and kind of relax. It was it was beautiful. Kerry Newsome : Hmm. I did something a little bit similar in Mau Chau. And you're right. It's the richness of that wooden bath. And then just the simplicity of the view, you know, it’s just pure nature. Yeah, it is quite a memorable, beautiful healing experience. Definitely. Okay. So if you're going to talk to people about this and I know you, you've done a great job with your blog,, and I do love your blog by the way. Uh, tell us. You know, what would you advise? Did you learn any kind of tips along the way that you'd say, Hey, make sure you do this or whatever, Maybe maybe share some of those? I'm sure there are some ones that could save people, some issues. Let's say!! Emily Lush: I think it's important to mention, you know, we've talked about a few times that this is a great way to sort of get off the beaten track. And I think it's important to know that with that there is, ah, more raw element to some of these experiences. So there is a language barrier, that you have to work a little bit harder to overcome. It's nothing that you can't overcome. Like I. I did this for a year, basically traveling all around and, you know, I did learn a bit of Vietnamese, but you know, I have no problem at the end of the day, but they're all those things that you have to keep in mind and just, you know, be realistic about what you're going into. Like you know, it is going to be a long time in the car if you're going to a more remote place. and stay in a homestay might not be. You know, it's not gonna be a boutique hotel standard, so as long as you're prepared for that, you can enjoy it for what it is. I think that's important to keep in mind. , but otherwise, you know you'll find especially in Vietnam one thing that struck me was how professional these Social Enterprises are. They really do their research. They really do their, you know, European class training, European standard training, um, to get people up to a good level off service, which is really, really important for a sustainable project. So while you do have to temper your expectations a little bit during its not, I think a lot of people get intimidated, especially at the idea of a home stay. But you'll find the standards are pretty good, especially in the North. Kerry Newsome: And, you know, we talk about homestays and it's a good subject to bring up because, they are a real wild card now, the homestay because in some places they're like an Airbnb, or you know, they're like in Australia what we know as a Bed and breakfast place. They're really quite modern. And they have kind of come up a few levels, but in the areas that you're talking about, you use the word” raw” I think raw is a very good word for it. They don’t always include a hot shower or a comfortable bed, and sometimes that shower is outside and the meals definitely would not be catering to all tastes, etc. You're not going to get a menu choice, etcetera. You're going to get what the family’s eating that day or that night. So you're right, setting people up so that they understand what to expect, I think, can I avoid disappointment for the people who go there that go or you know, that that's to rule for May on, then for other people who have gone to other places and not had that experience on are disappointed and going away with the thought that are, you know, to get unauthentic experience. That's all rubbish. so yeah just trying to find and navigate that that path I think is important. And I'm glad you mentioned it because I get a lot of people who say You know what's a homestay? And you know it's not an easy question to answer in one sentence because of that diversification of homestays we are just taking about. I think in in Hoi An alone they stopped giving out licenses because there was like 340 homestays in addition to hotels. So yeah, it's a bit crazy. Anything else? Emily Lush: It is becoming quite trendy. There will be places that sort of use that title that might not give that sort of experience. So again a Social Enterprise that is like underpinned by a group code of ethics and you know they're vetted their reviewed, they have a name for themselves that could be a good way to find those more quote-unquote authentic places. And you know, often they are the more remote rural places where you're gonna find things a bit more “out there”. So that's another way that Social Enterprise could be really helpful to to seek those out specifically because they do the research, they do the legwork. They are very, good about offering high quality and meeting your expectations. Kerry Newsome: The other thing I want to touch on,which comes up around Social Enterprise in my experience is price or cost. There's still that elusion that everything in Vietnam is cheap, cheap. You know it, Copy, Copy, Copy and cheap, Cheap. And like we both know that yes, sure, that exists. But when you go to Social Enterprises and you're buying something that's handmade or whatever, you are often going to be paying quite a high price. And, you know, I've seen some tourists really push back on that.. They go, you know, I wouldn't be expecting to pay that. And yet, if anything was handmade in their own country, they definitely would be paying that. So that's kind of a new and interesting dynamic, too, don't you think in this in this space? Emily Lush: Absolutely. I think a lot of travelers get into the mindset like you say that everything will be cheap as chips. And you can find that. But if you're wanting to give back, I suppose, or support a business that kind of goes a bit further. You often times do need to pay more, and I think there's a responsibility on the brand or the company to justify that, to tell the story behind the product to explain where that money is going, and I think that makes the decision for travel easier if you can see or, you know, that 10% of what I'm paying. You know, it might be 20% more than this other shop, but 10% is gonna go into the community fund. And maybe it's aiming to build a library for this small village so that Children can learn there own language. I think that makes the decision a bit easier. And I think most travelers who go to Vietnam, or Southeast Asia, are interested in leaving something good and meaningful behind when they leave. A lot of people, you know, have a great experience in Vietnam and they feel very connected to the people. To the culture there. And it's a really nice opportunity to be able to give something back. Often times, yeah, you will be paying a bit more, but I mean, obviously I think it's more than worth it. And these are the experiences that you know after a year in Vietnam, these are the things I remember most vividly and really look back on most fondly, and also the items that I've purchased that I hold on to, and you know, there they because I maybe because I paid a bit more it made it even more precious to me, because I know the story of who made it, where it came from, what it's made from, all those layers. I think just to contribute to something worthwhile is good. It's a personal decision at the end of the day, but I think it's more than worth it. Kerry Newsome: And, you know, I can relate to that very well because let's face it you know, one 5 star hotel looks pretty much the same as another. But if you are going to a country like Vietnam and you do want to feel like, you've actually been to Vietnam, like you've experienced something off the culture, the history. I mean, it's got such a huge history. You know, some people still think of Vietnam as the Vietnam War. I can remember very early on on one of my visits, one of the tour guides said, You know, Vietnam is a country not a war. I went, Whoa, I'm going to take that away with me. So I mean, Social Enterprise in Vietnam is something that is hard to explain and get on people's radar. As a collective from my experience, you really have to kind of, dig away to find, as you say, brands, etcetera. So I'm delighted that you can talk about it on your Wander_Lush Blog I'm gonna make sure I put that link in the episode notes so people can find out about that. Is there anything else you'd like to add to this episode that we can share and to give travelers in the future coming to Vietnam some further guidance. Emily Lush : So, yeah, there are a couple of resources on my website. There's another website called grassroots volunteering , which has a bit of a directory, as well and then one more is called CBT Vietnam . They work in SAPA and they're sort of like a directory of homestays that you can, look up, sort of find better term stays in that part of Vietnam, but yeah, I just want to end by saying that I liked Vietnam. You know, it has so much to offer as a country, but the greatest asset is the people. Absolutely. Especially the ethnic diversity. In some of these areas we've spoken about, I think Social Enterprise is just the perfect way to travel and is a gateway into deeper experiences in those areas. And to make sure that in these places tourism develops is done in a sustainable way and that people benefit, and they share in the benefits of tourism as it as it continues to develop at a roaring pace in some parts of Vietnam. So, yeah, I just I strongly recommend seeking out these places. You know, it is getting easier. Like you say, it's an ecosystem. Once you sort of find one, you can ask, the owner. Everyone is working together. which is another really nice thing about it. It's a very supportive environment for business owners. So, yeah, once you get in there, you can find pretty much anything from motor bikes, to haircuts and massages that have, ah, social edge to their business and just a nice alternative. If that's something that you want to pursue. Kerry Newsome: it's definitely the good feel way, isn't it to travel through Vietnam. Thank you so much, Emily. I'm going to leave you now because that to me just sums it up. And I just thank you for your time and for your information, and I hope to talk to you soon. Emily Lush: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

WhatAboutVietnam.com specialises in first-time travelers to Vietnam. Subscribe to our brief regular newsletter featuring 5 gold nuggets from the current podcast episode and latest Vietnam news. What About Vietnam is your voice of experience. Phone: AUS +614 416 677 793 Stay up to date in 2023 Subscribe to receive our monthly update Subscribe to receive our latest podcast info, blog and special offers to help make your visit to Vietnam a fantastic experience. Receive Kerry's email update. Yes - I wish to subscribe and I accept the privacy statement. My details are below. Be part of WAV...hihi!

S4-11 Revisiting Vietnam What About Vietnam – S4- E11 Revisiting Vietnam post Covid – First Impressions Introduction: [00:00:02] What about Vietnam? A podcast with Kerry Newsome, the series where Kerry talks with travelers about their experiences and adventures. Find out more about Vietnam from the people who have actually been there. What about Vietnam? Whether it's an adventure, exploring the culture and cuisine, shopping or just soaking up the sun, let Kerry and her travelers pave the way for a magical holiday in Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: [00:00:38] Xin chao and welcome to What About Vietnam? I'm delighted to be recording this show from Vietnam. I'm sitting in Hoi An and I've been one week in the country. Boy, oh, boy. Have things changed! I feel like I'm almost in a little bit of a time warp, as in it feels like about 2016. I just wanted to do this very short episode as a bit of a revisit to help you with your trip planning. With thinking about Vietnam, post-COVID because, you know, there's so much in the media and it's very hard to get a really good fix on what it's like to travel here again. I'm happy to say it's easy. There's just a lot of things that have happened to make it more seamless, certainly in the months since May of this year. So let's start right at the very beginning and we talk about the visa situation. So where it was in 2019, two types of main visas in the sense that there are a list of countries that are visa free and you could go to the website. There's actually a blog on my What about Vietnam website , and you can go there and you'll see the list of countries. So you may fit into that category where you can stay visa free, stay for 15 days. Then there is the opportunity for those countries that are requiring a visa and I'm sitting in Australia, of course, I do have to have a visa. I get up to 30 days with that visa and the fee for that is 25 USD. You should allow about 2 to 3 business days for processing. Kerry Newsome: [00:02:43] Once you get that letter, which I suggest, you really do need to print that off, take that with your passport and your ticket. It's a very simple process now to check in. You don't need to or I haven't been asked anywhere during my travels in Vietnam for my status, for vaccination or anything like that. So that's all pretty much put to bed. Nor did I get asked anywhere about my status with travel insurance. Now, even though that wasn't asked, I would still suggest there are still serious numbers of COVID in Vietnam. While it's pretty much the same in Australia, everybody is looking forward and not looking backward. I would still suggest that you check with your travel insurance company to make sure that you have got coverage, which includes anything to do with COVID. Just, to make sure, I'm just the kind of girl that wants to make sure you tick all the boxes. When you're looking to plan your trip and certainly if you're a long haul traveler, you want to have a look now at airlines that are offering you direct flights from Australia. You can fly direct into Ho Chi Minh or Hanoi with Vietnam Airlines, but also you might want to check Bamboo Airways as they are also offering you direct flights. Kerry Newsome: [00:04:24] So, you know, it's a nice easy eight hour flight. I did a daytime flight, so I left Australia at 10 a.m. and I got into Vietnam at 4:00 in the afternoon, which was just “easy peasy”. I think the most staggering difference for me on coming back into Vietnam was getting out of my country and getting into Vietnam, just the absolute contrast. Getting out of Australia there's been lots in the news about staff shortages in the travel industry that certainly seemed reflected in Sydney Airport in Australia. The queues to get through, check in the queues to get through immigration and then the queues to get through security took at least 3 hours. Maybe just check depending on the country that you are departing that things have caught up, they've got the right staff technologies in place and saving time, etc. At least allow your 3 hours to get through the queues because I was marching pretty sprightly to my gate in the end to get there on time. Allowing about three and a half hours to do that and then getting into Vietnam. Similarly there used to be long queues, but I looked over at immigration and there were six or seven people ahead of me in each queue. It was super, super quick and I was just staggered, having left my country with those long queues and then coming into Vietnam where I was kind of thinking I'd be up against the same thing, that just wasn't the case. Kerry Newsome: [00:06:17] Now when you start to move around the country and you're going into domestic airports, one thing you are really going to notice is a difference in the amount of domestic tourism. That's probably been the most staggering change I've seen. There definitely is a growing upper middle class in Vietnam, a more educated, more business, more enterprising Vietnam. Uh, industry growth! So you're seeing a lot more well-heeled travelers, I guess, travelers that are traveling for specific regions that they've never been to. I was talking to some people the other day, and Vietnam is really opening up in the sense that their own countrymen are wanting to discover more about their country. I mean, there's some people that have lived all their life in Saigon but never ventured any further than Saigon. Those people are now changing up and going to Dalat or going to Mui Ne or going to the northern regions. It's quite staggering. When you're standing in the queues where, you know, 2019, I'd be standing in a queue with a lot of Westerners standing with me. I'm now standing abreast with a lot of Vietnamese. That was just an observation, I guess I made very, very quickly that there was certainly less of me and much more of them. Now coming into Vietnam, your main ports are going to be one of three. Kerry Newsome: [00:08:03] Ho Chi Minh City, Danang or Hanoi. For me, it was coming into Ho Chi Minh City. Now, Ho Chi Minh City has been traditionally, for me, a leapfrog city. I would come in and I would just think, oh no, I don't want to be here for too long because of the chaos. It's just the buzz of a city, but it's certainly one for me, traditionally just too busy because I'm here for a holiday. I want to relax. Well, I decided to take a longer period of time in Ho Chi Minh City this time, because I really wanted to experience it. Post-covid, I mean, in 2021, there were some serious lockdowns here in Ho Chi Minh City. I wanted to see what were the signs post that era, what had changed? The last time I'd been there was a lot of construction and there still is. There's definitely been some upgrades and just a few different things that I wanted to share with you that may influence you to maybe stay a little bit longer and discover the city. Some of the things for me that really hit home was the easier way to get around. Now, traditionally walking around and, you know, you've probably also heard that getting around crossing roads and the amount of bikes was really quite difficult and people got quite overwhelmed with it. Well, for me this time I found it quite easy. Kerry Newsome: [00:09:52] On a lot of the tourist kind of streets, etc. they've made walkways. They've added one way streets. So where there was that crazy mix where people were on bikes and kind of converging and you were trying to walk through those. There's not as many of those anymore. There's a lot more one-way streets. So at least you're only having to look either left or right to cross the road if it's a wide road. That's just one of the things. The other thing is the amount of traffic lights. There's many, many more traffic lights, and I think Vietnamese are getting used to that. That's also helping guide the whole traffic scene and making it easier for us to maneuver the city and get around. Then thirdly, the difference is there's many more cars now. That's both good and bad, certainly. You know, cars have the ability to transport more than one person. If you're in a small group or you've got a family or you'd like to travel together, you know, the four seater, six seater, that car, there's definitely more of those on the road. I'm a bit of a fan of the GRAB App (Download to your phone) and while you can order a grab car or a grab bike if you're going a longer distance and obviously the weather plays a role in this as well. You might want to do the car, but if you've got to be there at a specific time, allow more time for the car. Kerry Newsome: [00:11:41] The car obviously doesn't have quite the same maneuverability as the bike. Just getting around the traffic is going to take longer. Like every country in the world, every city has their peak hours and Ho Chi Minh City is no different. So definitely with a Grab bike and a Grab car, the car will get to you quicker. I was able to because I was going kind of short distances and mainly moving within District one, District two, District five and District three, etc.. I was using the bike and I found the bike very effective, very quick and with the app. The thing I love about the app is that with the cash situation, you are able to know up front how much money it's going to cost. You never at any point or any time had the feeling that you're going to get ripped off or anything like that. You've got easy identification. They can see your name on their app, on their phone, you can see it on the map, and you've got a registration that you can match up. It gives you, I think, another layer of confidence to get around the city and discover it because it's also changing. I found some fascinating places. I really want you to stay tuned to Ho Chi Minh City and the show, because I am putting together some interesting tours within that city, and I'll be telling you more about those in the coming months. Kerry Newsome: [00:13:27] I think Saigon is a city where you're definitely going to get your fix of street food, but then you're going to also experience some fabulous coffee shops on all levels. You can eat good quality food, get great coffee. I don't know whether you follow me on my Instagram , but my new favorite coffee is an iced coke Vietnamese coconut coffee . My God, it is just to die for and certainly on a warm day, it is the perfect refreshment. You're also paying a very small amount for a very luscious drink. Just in these really natty interesting coffee shops and they're everywhere all over Saigon. I think the other thing is dining out has changed. Where before, Ho Chi Minh City in particular, was really just about street food and experiencing the markets and doing that kind of thing. It is now evolving into a very sophisticated city, and it's been doing that just by osmosis, really just organically in the last few years. I got to experience Tung Restaurant , which is the flagship restaurant for Chef Tung. I did an episode on Fine Dining with Raj Taneja , and we hooked up on this trip to go and experience it. Oh, my God, 19 Courses of a Degustation menu - it was just amazing! Kerry Newsome: [00:15:22] I just don't know whether I'm going to do it justice here in this show, but I'll definitely put a link to it in the show notes . So think about Ho Chi Minh City as an experience that you might want to spend a few more days and discover it from a different angle and from the level. I can confidently say that you can get around more one way straight streets, easy walking paths, or more so than there used to be anyway. Some of that construction is now converting itself into some really lovely districts, and beautiful bars overlooking the river. I got to have a look at the deck, which is an absolutely gorgeous place. Then there are a couple of others, which I'll let you know in due course. Coming into Danang and now arriving in Hoi An, that's been crazy for me as well because it's quiet, and I feel like I'm in a bit of a time warp here. I was saying to someone this morning, I feel like I'm in 2016 when Vietnam was really wanting to grow its tourism market. The city of Hoi An, in particular being a UNESCO World Heritage site, was really targeted as the city that would bring the foreign tourists to it. At the moment, I'm definitely in the minority, I think Vietnamese and certainly there's a high percentage of Koreans here at the moment. You know, tourism is here, but it's not to the extent that it was when I left in 2019, 2020, actually, just as COVID was hitting. It's still a beautiful city! Kerry Newsome: [00:17:33] It's got that lovely Thu Bon river, the lanterns are still there, and beautiful cafes. They're starting to open up again, the shops, etc. My beautiful tailor, she's back working. She hadn't been working for two years, and it's just remarkable how they've survived and how well they've survived just attitudinally. How beautiful and how gracious they are about welcoming everybody back. It's just fabulous to be back and experience the Vietnam that I love! I'm going to keep this episode pretty short because I'm going to be moving on to some other places in Vietnam during my stay. I want to try and cram in as much as I can in my 30 day visa and have as much as I can to share with you as I go. The show notes will include as much as I can and have been covered in today's show. Bear with me! I've got a fantastic episode coming up next on Art in Vietnam and we're going to focus on that in Hanoi. So stay tuned for that and always feel like you can go to the website, search for a subject, search for a destination, and if I haven't got it, I haven't covered, please reach out to me directly at whataboutvietnam@gmail.com . Thanks for staying with me. Stay tuned for more stories and more shows on the What About Vietnam podcast? Outtro: [00:19:21] Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. Love What about Vietnam? Don't forget to subscribe, write and review and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam. Time stamps to help guide you through the episode:- 00.38 The Visa process in action 04.24 Arriving into Vietnam – what to expect 06.17 The domestic travel experience 08.03 HCMC – most significant changes 09.52 Getting around HCMC 13.27 Dining out and the coffee scene Saigon 17.32 Hoi An – Welcoming me back Please rate, review and send us your comments. Follow us on facebook here - https://www.facebook.com/whataboutvietnam Follow us on Insta here - https://www.instagram.com/whataboutvietnampodcast/ Follow us on LinkedIN here - https://www.linkedin.com/company/what-about-vietnam/ YOU TUBE - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCavCC1--oE5rUhO_SlENmqw

S4-08 Travel Addict podswap Sorry no transcript for this episode

Vietnam travel podcasts featuring stories and interviews in central Vietnam destinations Central Vietnam S2-23 Vietnam Cooking Classes Go to Episode S2-11 Golf in Vietnam Go to Episode S2-06 Top 5 Photography locations Go to Episode S2-01 Historical Hoi An Go to Episode S2-22 Wild Monkeys of Danang Go to Episode S2-09 Phong Nha Caves Go to Episode S2-04 Tam Ky and Tam Thanh Beach Go to Episode S2-16 Danang Community Sprit Go to Episode S2-08 Vietnam wedding Destination Go to Episode S2-03 Family Friendly Vietnam Go to Episode S2-12 Health and Wellness Retreats Go to Episode S2-07 Hoi An Top 10 must dos Go to Episode S2-02 Shopping Vietnam Go to Episode S3-25 One teenagers holiday views Go to Episode S3-17 Mui Ne Beach bliss experiences Go to Episode S3-12 From Tourist to Resident Go to Episode S3-23 Your next wellness destination Go to Episode S3-16 Things NOT always in a tour Go to Episode S3-10 Top 5 Travel Podcasts Go to Episode S3-22 Phong Nha Caves in depth Go to Episode S3-15 Travel time in Vietnam P2 Go to Episode S3-04 Dishes of Danang Go to Episode S3-21 Learn "shopping words" Go to Episode S3-13 Vietnamese Noodles Go to Episode S4-25 A fun Guide to droning - Photos Part 3 Go to Episode S4-20 Life changer for singer songwiter Go to Episode S4-14 Con Dao Islands Go to Episode S4-24 Take beautiful photos Part 2 Go to Episode S4-18 Luxury Brand Travel Experiences Go to Episode S4-11 Revisiting Vietnam Go to Episode S4-23 Take beautiful photos Part 1 Go to Episode S4-17 Vietnam Traveller Insights 2022 Go to Episode S4-08 Travel Addict podswap Go to Episode S4-21 Beyond the Phong Nha caves Go to Episode S4-15 Travelling as a solo woman Go to Episode S4-07 Hue the city Past Present Future Go to Episode S5-E26 Wellness Tourism in Vietnam Go to Episode S5-E21 Vietnam Tet Holiday - Preparation and Tips for Tourists Go to Episode S5-E8 – Empowering the Traveller to fight Human Trafficking Go to Episode S5-E25 Hoi An in Focus - ten things to love Go to Episode S5-E17 Motorbike Riding in Vietnam tips and adventures Go to Episode S5-E5 Hai Van Pass Experience from a seasoned traveller Go to Episode S5-E23 Caving and Trekking in Phong Nha’s Tu Lan Cave System Go to Episode S5-E16 Smart phone apps and tech tip Go to Episode S5-E3 Heritage and Discovery in Saigon Mekong Delta & Dalat Go to Episode S5-E22 10 things travellers may not know about Vietnam Go to Episode S5-E14 Phong Nha - The family fun destination Go to Episode S5-E2 Choosing Hoi An as a Digital Nomad Destination Go to Episode

S5-E19-Facelift and Dental surgery Vietnam – A good news story S5-E19-Facelift and Dental surgery Vietnam – A good news story Episode 19 S5-E19-Facelift and Dental surgery Vietnam – A good news story 00:00 / 46:22 In this episode of What About Vietnam, we uncover a hidden gem: Vietnam’s rising reputation as a hotspot for affordable, high-quality dental and cosmetic procedures. My co-host Kelley shares her transformative facelift journey with a trusted hospital in Saigon, which combines expert dental and cosmetic care in one “one-stop shop.” So to speak! Kelley’s uplifting experience goes beyond surgery - it’s a unique way to pair self-care with a holiday! With her personal tips and stories (and a few giggles )we got to share along the you’ll learn some of the do’s and don’ts of medical tourism and why Vietnam is fast becoming a destination for consideration. 

With Kelley’s personal story, along with another major dental patient’s experience during the same visit, we aim to share why, in our opinion, the Worldwide Dental and Beauty Hospital in Saigon stands out for its exceptional standards of care - and why we’re excited to serve as their introduction agency. To be frank, we can only speak with full confidence to our experience with this one hospital. It's a "no holds barred" episode packed with insights that will make you see Vietnam in a whole new light. Plus, join our exclusive Facelifts and Dental Vietnam Facebook Group for more real-life stories and support. Listen now and discover why Vietnam could be the perfect place to get the procedure you’ve always wanted - at a price you can afford - while turning the whole experience into a memorable holiday! Check out our previous dental episode here. https://www.whataboutvietnam.com/series-2/episode-10/vietnam-dental-holiday---save-money-on-dental-while-on-your-holiday Go to our website page here talking dental and our enquiry page for more info – (Facelift surgery page coming soon) https://www.whataboutvietnam.com/dental-travel-services Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S4-10 Hanoi A Foodies Paradise P2 What About Vietnam - S4-10 A Foodie’s Paradise - Part Two SPEAKERS: Kerry Newsome, Corrin Carlson Kerry Newsome: 00:18 Xin Chào and welcome to “ What About Vietnam .” Sometimes when you travel light with an open mind, and you're not tied down with any commitments that can't be changed, the world can truly open up as your oyster. Let me begin today's program with some background to my guest. It started with a working holiday, I'm told, starting in New Zealand, moved on to Asia, then to Hanoi for a month, then that led to three months and ultimately would you believe to three years. As you will soon find out, this is only the tip of the iceberg for my delightful foodie guest on today's show, Corrin Carlson, who found her heart and passion for food in Hanoi. 01:26 Corrin is a delightful American girl, who is using her acting and education to share her travel journey throughout Asia with her next stop being Europe in September 22, one to definitely watch out for. You may have seen Korean on her very popular "The Fat Passport" TikTok and Instagram pages. As she shares her "Plates of Hanoi" with her followers. Her personality and knowledge really shine through in her posts. And I think she does the same in this show. You tell me. While Corrin was visiting her friends and family in the US just recently, I was able to hook up with her to record the show. Being such a wealth of information about the food localities in Hanoi, and some really great experiences, I just knew one episode wasn't going to cut it. So, I've expanded it into a two-part series. That way you get the full picture of some of her great finds, and she certainly got some super-duper tips via stay in Hanoi. Without further ado, let's welcome Corrin to the program. 02:47 This is part two of the series talking with Corrin Carlson, please welcome her back to the program. So, Corrin, maybe for everybody. Let's talk about some of those most asked questions. We discussed the question of dog meat before, maybe you could address some of the questions you've been asked about food in Vietnam that just can give everybody some peace of mind. Corrin Carlson: 03:17 Yeah, absolutely. Something else that I'm frequently asked about is people ask me all the time: ● Have I had food poisoning? ● What's the water like? ● What is safe to eat and what isn't? I'm really happy to say that pretty much anything that you are going to find is served to you is going to be completely safe to eat. And I understand I might have a stomach of steel at this point. But I have only gotten food poisoning in Vietnam one time, and I have had food poisoning in the US way more than that. So overall food you're going to find is very, very fresh. People go to the market every day to buy their ingredients, both at home and for restaurants. And then also, people are very curious about water and the drinking water in all over Vietnam, but especially in Hanoi. 04:09 So, what you're going to find is that no one drinks tap water. So Vietnamese people and foreigners are all going to drink bottled water. And so, when you're out at the restaurants, when you're in someone's home, even if it's just a little street food restaurant, you'll often find a big tub of bottled water and the dispenser, like you would find in an office in the US or in Australia. And this water dispenser is what everyone drinks out of, and this water is actually quite cheap in comparison to what we think of a bottle of water costing, definitely less than 50 cents for a small bottle and for a big one, maybe $2. So, it's not expensive to drink good water. 04:53 Sometimes when you're at restaurants, the water that will be in broth or maybe even in tea, sometimes that comes from a tap every once in a while. But we're not really worried about drinking water that's been boiled or consuming broth because it's been boiled and cooked. Typically, there's nothing bad in this anyway, it's just you don't really want to drink it too much, because there might be some metals or calcium in it. It's not that drinking a glass is immediately going to make you sick. For example, we brush our teeth with tap water, that's absolutely not a problem. If you're showering and get a little bit in your mouth, that's absolutely not a problem. Also, then any fresh fruit and vegetables. I don't worry about it so much being peeled or unpeeled, boiled or unspoiled. If it's washed in a sink, it's going to be okay for me to eat. Kerry Newsome: 05:44 Really good point. I got really close with a chef in Vietnam. One of the things that she pointed out to me was that even when they do cook, they have on standby, in their kitchens, bottled water. So, on most occasions, they are pouring that bottle of water into whatever they're cooking, if they need to add it to a source or they need to add it to make the broths and things like that. So, they are very cognizant of the water situation, but they will use it to wash their dishes. But as she said, likewise, they're very particular about using the sun sometimes to dry the dishes. And of course, anything that has heat to it, that cooks out or burns out any kind of bacteria, or things like that, that people are concerned about. 06:42 I'm the same as you Corrin, I have never got food poisoning. I have had a little bit of an upset tummy when I first arrived. But that's more about the flavors. And I think some of the herbs are much richer than what we would buy in a supermarket. I don't know whether you're the same. But I think that's just the richness out of the food because it is so flavorsome and it hasn't been through all the processes, or whatever that you would find in your typical supermarket in Western countries. So, I just want to warn people out that may be taking something for an upset tummy, diarrhea, tablets, or things like that. It's just handy to have. And if you need it, you need it. If you don't, and you have a cast iron stomach like Corrin does, or seems to have, then you're going to be absolutely fine. Because I don't want people to be put off. I want people to go with the open mind and try things because there's just so much there to try. You be crazy not to, don't you think? Corrin Carlson: 07:50 Absolutely, I agree. And what you're saying is so right. Sometimes when I go to a place new that I haven't been before with flavors or ingredients I'm not used to, I will bring calcium tablets or like Pepto-Bismol tablets. And I'll take one to two before each meal, at least for the first couple of days when I'm in that transition mode. And then I'm fine after that. Kerry Newsome: 08:12 Yeah, and I sometimes take a probiotic before I go, just to get all those things right in my tummy because I want to be able to eat everything when I get there. Corrin Carlson: 08:22 yeah, absolutely. I would love to talk about some of the more sit-down restaurants and higher-end places so that people can have a whole idea of what they can eat when they're there. Kerry Newsome: 08:39 Yes, please. Corrin Carlson: 08:40 Awesome. So, a couple places that I really love. I'll put up some options that are both in the Hoàn Kiếm area, and they're also in the Tây Hồ area. Even if you're staying in Hoan Kiem, it is so easy to get a grab or a taxi and take it over to Tây Hồ, it will cost you three to five US dollars for your trips. So, I don't want you to think that you're in one area and you can only eat there. Starting at the Hoàn Kiếm area. Some places that I really like would be, there's this lovely French restaurant owned by a couple. The husband is French, and the wife is Vietnamese, and they have this restaurant called Fabrik. F, A, B, R, I, K, and it's right on the cusp of Hồ Tây and Hoàn Kiếm. Absolutely lovely French food. 09:24 It's not super high-end, but you can certainly walk in there in your street clothes after a day of walking around, but you'll be treated to a wonderful meal for lunch or for dinner, steaks, burgers and typical French cuisine as well as those things. Highly recommend it. Another great spot in Hoàn Kiếm area that I like, it is called The Hanoi Social Club. Again, not high ends and they serve meals from breakfast all the way till the evening, they have a great bar as well, kind of Australian-American food. The owner is Australian. And it's actually in an old villa. So, it's about three or four storeys with these beautiful rooms, lots of antiques. It just looks like quintessential old Hanoi. So, the menu- the owner has traveled a lot. So, he has lots of dishes from around Southeast Asia. And then a couple, like I said, American and Australian style dishes as well, especially for the French foods. So that's a great place to go and just hang out, even if it's just for a drink or for coffee. 10:39 If you like afternoon tea, which is something that I'm such a fan of, you find a couple spots that in Hanoi that do it but the one that is quintessential Hanoi, is that you can go to the Hotel Metropole, the old French hotel that's right in the middle of Hoàn Kiếm, and is a stunning place. I'm not going to compare the afternoon tea to something that you would find per se in England or in France, because the flavors are not quite as perfect as they are there. But the presentation is lovely. And you're out in the pool house, which is covered in palm fronds and it's just a like a slice of history. So that's such a joy to get to do and one I would certainly recommend if that's up your alley. Kerry Newsome: 11:24 Wow, I've added it to my list but yeah, keep going. Corrin Carlson: 11:28 Excellent, and as we're moving over to towards the Hồ Tây, the Tây Hồ area, I have a couple of recommendations as well just depending on your vibe. There's this lovely little Vietnamese restaurant called Chào Bạn, and the owner is Vietnamese French and he recently moved back to Vietnam and opens this adorable French bistro style restaurant but with a Vietnamese menu. So, you're going to find lots of typical Vietnamese dishes but done in an elevated way. And everything is done to perfection. I'm getting chills just thinking about it right now. [laughter] Kerry Newsome: 11:32 The food is so good. Corrin Carlson: 12:07 It's a great date spot. It's great with a small group of friends. For dessert they have an AMAZING banana cake that is the owner’s mother's recipe that you cannot go without getting you have to have that banana cake. Another place I really like in Hồ Tây is Pépé La Poule, another French name, but it's actually going to be a French Japanese fusion restaurant, and they have actually a really nice tapas menu as well. This restaurant is actually about like five storeys and at the very top, they have an open rooftop bar area with tables that you can make a reservation for. And they have a great Happy Hour with two for one drink and it's right on the lake. And this is a place you can dress up for a little bit if you want. They have Prosecco and they have these great sharing tapas. I think it's a wonderful place to start out you’re evening before dinner, or you know what, sometimes I go there and then I just end up spending my whole evening there because it's lovely. Kerry Newsome: 13:12 Oh, that sounds wonderful. Corrin Carlson: 13:13 Yes, super good. My last one that I'm going to recommend in the Tây Hồ area is called KOTO Villa . And this is actually a partnership with an Australian organization. And KOTO means 'Know one, Train one'. So, it's actually a training restaurant. Kerry Newsome: 13:30 Oh, this is Jimmy Pham. Yeah, I've had Jimmy on the program. [crosstalk] Corrin Carlson: 13:34 Amazing, okay, so you've heard about this restaurant? Kerry Newsome: 13:38 I go every time. Yes, it's fabulous. Corrin Carlson: 13:41 Great food. They just moved this past spring to a new Villa location. So again, you have that historic, beautiful house with beautiful high ceilings and great artwork. The servers are very endearing, often very shy, but it's such a lovely meal. It's great to hear about their stories, too. Kerry Newsome: 14:03 Yes, it's a social enterprise. So, the staff are actually kids that have had hard lives and opportunities haven't fallen their way. And under the KOTO scheme, they learn to become chefs, and the hospitality industry training gives them new opportunities out there. So, it's a wonderful organization. It has been going on for a very long time. Jimmy Pham has done a wonderful job to steer that for these kids. The restaurant is just a lovely experience always. Corrin Carlson: 14:40 Yeah. Kerry Newsome: 14:47 Maybe at this juncture, to maybe just talk about the evening, and rooftop bars now. It is a thing, isn't it? In Hanoi and there are some really lovely ones. Do you have any favorites? Corrin Carlson: 15:02 Yeah, it definitely is a thing. My favorite is Pépé La Poule, the one that I mentioned, though, that's like a little bit more high-end, though their happy hour is a very good deal. If you walk over, if you're in the Hoàn Kiếm area, there is a street, you can Google it on Google Maps, called Beer Street. It's a street full of basically beer shops with snacks. And often those restaurants, the ones that are tucked back behind the street level, will have rooftop bars. A lot of the hotels around Hoàn Kiếm will have rooftop bars as well. So often when I've had friends come to stay, I've met them at their hotel, and we'll go up to the bar and have a great view and great drinks. Kerry Newsome: 15:47 Yes, yeah. Sometimes it's worth when you are Googling your accommodation, check out to see whether they have some gallery images, which show and depict the rooftop bars, because sometimes, the stairs, to climb up the top, but they just give you such wonderful views of the lake area and the Old Quarter. So, they are definitely handy if they are in your own hotel, so to speak. Corrin Carlson: 16:18 Yeah. Kerry Newsome: 16:19 Do we talk here about Bia Hơi, or we can't not? Corrin Carlson: 16:30 Yes, we have to. Yes. So, while you are in Hanoi, you are going to see these big signs that say Bia Hơi across them, usually they're red, or they will be yellow, with basically a back of background that looks like beer. And this is something that's really common in Vietnam, but mostly common in the north, it's a big part of the culture there. Beer is a huge part of the drinking culture. In Vietnam, the secondary one would probably be rice wine. So, if you're seeing people around you, taking shots, that's what it's going to be. You can walk into one of these Bia Hơis, and you can get a pitcher of beer, or you can get bottles of beer, and you can just have that. But also, these places will have full menus, like in the States, you go to a bar and there's a bar menu, and it's like burgers and fries and this and that. When you go to a Bia Hơi, they have all of their typical dishes as well, usually fried tofu, maybe fried chicken, steamed vegetables, sometimes you'll find hotpot at these places. 17:34 What you were saying before is, when you were looking at places and seeing large menus, how that kind of helps you understand the place. Actually, when you go to be Bia Hơi street, you will see huge menus, they will be very, very large. And often these places are very busy so that they can keep most of these items in stock. But when they're not, I don't even worry about it too much. Because there's been times when I've gone to a Bia Hơi, and I've been like, "Okay, I would like to have this, this and this", and the waiter will say, "Well, we're out of that, that, that, but I can give you these instead." So sometimes you'll see a big menu, you'll be excited about it, and then you have to change your idea about what to order. But you're going to find a lot of things on there that maybe you wouldn't have eaten before, like frogs’ legs, snails, it can be a little bit daunting. A lot of the organs that are eaten, you'll find that on these Bia Hơi menus. So, if you have questions, I always ask the waiter for something safe. Kerry Newsome: 18:32 Yes, you're right. There's a myriad of different Bia Hơi places, isn't there? Because there's the original Bia Hơi place where they make the brew for the day. And literally, once it's gone, it's gone. It's in plastic, some very small cups, and it's not necessarily cold. They will sometimes give you ice to put in it if you want to. But it's as cheap as chips, isn't it? Corrin Carlson: 18:33 Yeah, it's like tops 50 cents US a glass. It is very cheap. Kerry Newsome: 19:10 Yeah, preservative free. It is made with natural ingredients. You drink it pretty much on the day that it's made. So, it's super fresh. But yes, and I'm not sure about the alcohol content. Do you know? Corrin Carlson: 19:26 It's pretty low. Yeah, it's going to be lighter beer, certainly. And it's not free hoppy at all. I would compare it to whatever standard cheap light beer you have in your own country or your own hometown. That's the equivalent of it, but it does end up kind of adding up, if you're not eating with it. Kerry Newsome: 19:46 Yeah. Did you come across any craft breweries, craft beer? Corrin Carlson: 19:53 Yeah, actually, craft breweries are growing right now in Vietnam. Last year, I went, and I visited one of the breweries in Hanoi that makes some of the craft breweries, they come in and make their brews in these breweries and ship them out around the country. So, a couple good ones, you're going to find more in the Tây Hồ area, near West Lake. Two, I can recommend would be 7 Bridges . So, there's a pizza place on Xuan Dieu, it is great New York style pizza. And then the beer is not brewed there. It's brewed elsewhere. But they have all of their own beers on tap, and then a wide selection of other craft beers as well. If you want to go to a brewery, also in Tây Hồ, right on the lake, you can go to Turtle Lake Brewery, they have a great food menu as well. And you'll also see the huge casks where they're brewing, and you'll find a number of their own beers on the menu. It's a great place to hang out, and they have wing nights once a week. And they have that information on their Facebook and Instagram . Kerry Newsome: 20:53 I just did a show on craft brews and taprooms and things, only published last week, and the 7 Bridges is originally from Da Nang. They have a taproom and bar in Da Nang. I'm glad you mentioned the Turtle Lake, because it's another one that we talked about. And there's a blog on the website for everybody, you can go and check and get a list of the craft breweries and places to visit across all of Vietnam. So, Saigon, Hanoi and Da Nang and Nha Trang. So, it's good that you mentioned that Corrin, terrific. Now, can we move into fine dining? Its just that the restaurants that we've covered here, or is there another set above these? Because I've been to some really quite fancy places in Hanoi, that I would say were a real cut above. Corrin Carlson: 22:01 I would say, you can find some really nice steak restaurants. And some of those I've been to around Hanoi, but I personally haven't been to the super classy, fine dining restaurants myself. Kerry Newsome: 22:15 Okay, we had a special show that we dedicated to 'Fine Dining'. I was quite surprised at some of the really outstanding chefs that are coming through Vietnam and bringing new flavors, that really beautiful Asian fusion, to fine dining in Vietnam. So, I'll make sure that I reference that also in the show notes. I got some serious show notes to do here Corrin, you're really giving me a lot of content. 22:51 All right. Now, can we talk a little bit about cooking classes? Did you go down that route in Hanoi? Corrin Carlson: 22:58 Yes. And I personally did not take any cooking classes. But I would be happy to talk about a coffee class that I did take. Kerry Newsome: 23:05 Yeah? Wow! Corrin Carlson: 23:05 I think it's a really great idea. I love cooking classes, and I love getting to go to them. And no matter what country I'm in, it gives me a greater understanding of the food. But what I find is that, especially when I'm in Asia, taking a cooking class, when I come back to the States, and I'm trying to cook for my family, it does not go well. The ingredients just don't transfer so well. But coffee is something that travels well and is also pretty easy once you know how to make it. It's like a great bang for your buck. And it's also very impressive. 23:37 So, I took a coffee class, and I can send you the name of the woman who runs it. But if you're looking on Hanoi Beautiful , which is a group on Facebook, I definitely recommend for recommendations around Hanoi, things to do, things to eat. If you search in that group 'Coffee Class', you'll find this ad for this coffee making class where they can host it or they can come to you with all of the ingredients. So, this was super fun because Vietnamese coffee is a quintessential part of Vietnamese cuisine. And it's so much fun to learn about. So Vietnamese coffee beans are roasted often with butter, or with some other flavorings that give the richness that you taste in it and made with very, very little water. So, the coffee is much thicker than what we're used to in the States or in Australia. 24:27 Then with that, you could have your classic Vietnamese coffee served on ice, served with condensed milk, but something else I really love is coconut coffee. And this is a fabulous drink that you're going to find in Vietnam. Coconut cream is blended with ice and sweetened condensed milk and then a shot of Vietnamese coffee is poured on top of that. So, a coffee making class is a quick class. It doesn't take up your whole day especially if you're just traveling around Hanoi for a day or two. But it gives you a really good idea about the culture and a good idea about the coffee side of the country because coffee houses and cafes are our meeting places. They're places where people hang out, they are places where families go, we're friends go. So, it will have this class, it will give you a better understanding when you're checking out cafes around the city. Kerry Newsome: 25:25 Yes. Did you try egg coffee? Corrin Carlson: 25:28 Yes, of course, you have to go to that, it's quintessential, the original, egg coffee spots in Hoàn Kiếm. It's so famous. And the story is that when the French were in Vietnam, there was a milk shortage. And so, there was a chef in a hotel. And he was trying to figure out what to mix into the coffee for his French customers when he was out of milk, and he didn't really know what to do. So instead, he whipped up eggs with sweetened condensed milk, and he whipped it and whipped it until it created this frothy cream. And he topped the coffee with that. And now it's a very famous part of Hanoi coffee culture. And it's also something that you can make in these coffee courses as well. Kerry Newsome: 26:15 Gee, I've never heard that explanation. That's a really good story. Corrin Carlson: 26:21 Yeah, and when you go into the original spots, in Hoàn Kiếm, they have pictures of the guy who started it, up on the wall, and they have some of his story there too. So that's a great place to check out. Kerry Newsome: 26:39 Lastly, one of the other things that I found fascinating in my trips to Hanoi, was shopping, and just different kinds of shopping for me and a little bit more boutique. A lot of Korean, a lot of Asian designers and designer boutique shops, etc., especially around the Old Quarter. But just keen to know your experience of shopping, be it that, you're a tourist and then you got to live there. So yeah, any point is on shopping for Hanoi. Corrin Carlson: 27:17 Yeah, certainly, if you're starting in Hoàn Kiếm, and the touristy areas, as you're circling the lake, that's where you're going to find most of the souvenir shops. You'll also find art shops, clothing stores, a lot of silk shops where you can buy silk items or have things made. And that's all really fun to do. But, again, a little bit more touristy. If you're going to travel over to the West Lake area, if you're going to be in Tây Hồ, you can go down Xuan Dieu where there's lots of restaurants and things, but you'll find lots of boutiques on that area as well. Personally, I like shopping for locally made clothes in that area because they are often tailored to fit Western body frames, rather than sometimes walking around Hoàn Kiếm, trying to find clothes that fit is a little bit difficult. Kerry Newsome: 28:06 Challenging. Corrin Carlson: 28:06 Yes, I would definitely recommend looking around there. And especially recently, there's lots of very cute boutiques popping up that will be owned by Vietnamese people or by foreigners, with locally made clothes and household items, like makeup and fun haircare and skincare products and jewelry as well. Kerry Newsome: 28:29 Yes, and I've been to some of those boutiques. There's a famous one. Have you been to Chula ? Corrin Carlson: 28:36 No, I haven't been there. Kerry Newsome: 28:38 Yeah, it's a beautiful store. And I think she's got a couple of- but she originally came to Vietnam and started up this design, but they employ local Vietnamese people who are part of the design process, and these people might have some handicap of some degree. I think 75% of their staff are, but their designs, literally feature on some of the famous catwalks around the world. So, her brand is quite strong. So maybe that's one I can share with you for your next visit. So, Chula, C, H, U, L, A. I'll put the links to their stores. Beautiful silk dresses, stunning designs quite famous. And their store is- I think their main one is near West Lake, that's where I saw it. 29:44 Just wanting to finish off with 'best time of the year to visit'. I mean you mentioned and you're right, that they do have four seasons in the north. So, very clear Summer, Winter, Autumn, Spring. But when would you say is that a really good time of year to visit Hanoi so that you can visit a lot of places and do a lot of things? Corrin Carlson: 30:07 Yes, whenever anyone asked me this, I say November, hands down, that is the best. Kerry Newsome: 30:11 November. Interesting, okay. Corrin Carlson: 30:14 So, in the north, and really in the whole country, monsoon season, rainy season is late summer, early fall. So, it starts sometime in August, and then it extends to sometime in October, and it stops in October, then you have beautiful weather, but this past October, it rains literally every single day in Hanoi. So, I don't recommend risking October, instead, November is very, very pleasant. Temperature is going to be still warm. Like as a tourist, you'll probably be walking around in shorts, but everyone else will probably be walking around in pants, because it's a little bit cooler for them. But nice and dry, and also not so sticky. So, it's a great time of year if you want to be walking around and seeing a lot of temples, and a lot of the street life of Hanoi. Kerry Newsome: 31:06 I didn't think about November as a best time. But now, the way you speak about it, it is a very good time. I have been in the winter. And it's been freezing. And that was a bit of a shock to my system. I thought, hang on a minute here. I mean, Vietnam is not supposed to be cold, is it? But guess what? In the north, it's definitely cold. So, something to be aware of for everyone, that there are months of the year where it does get very cold. And if you go up into the mountain areas in particular, you can get- over January. You can get snow in Sapa. Corrin Carlson: 31:42 Of course. Kerry Newsome: 31:43 Crazy. Hey, look, Corrin, really grateful to have you on the show. You've given everybody some great tips, great food. Just a big thank you for being on the show. Corrin Carlson: 31:56 Yeah, it's my pleasure. I'm so happy to talk about this city that I love. And I hope I inspire people to go and also to eat some great food when they're there. Kerry Newsome: 32:05 Absolutely. All right. Thanks again. Corrin Carlson: 32:08 Yeah, have a great day. Kerry Newsome: 32:10 Before we let you go, I thought I would introduce you to a new Cooking Class and Market Tour that's now featuring on the WhatAboutVietnam.com website. It's based in Hanoi. So, after we've been chatting about Hanoi and some of the great foodie experiences, I thought this was a great one to remind you about. What's wonderful about this is, the class is with Chef Duyen. I've done the class with her she's absolutely fabulous, great personality, what she doesn't know about cooking our food, the markets will just blow you away. What's exceptional about this tour and the opportunity to learn from her is that she brings her class now into her own home. So, you get to meet her family. You get to just hear about how food is a big part of Vietnamese culture, their family life and social upbringing. You should try all kinds of cooking classes in Vietnam, but I hope you're going to enjoy this one in Hanoi with the Chef Duyen. Please check it out in WhatAboutVietnam.com , on the Offers page . Until next time, I wish you happy travels in Vietnam.

S5-E18 Hanoi Below the Surface S5-E18 Hanoi Below the Surface Episode 18 S5-E18 Hanoi Below the Surface 00:00 / 1:01:33 In this episode we delve into the vibrant yet often misunderstood city of Hanoi, While it is the capital, it often serves more as a transit point for travellers to visit other places like Halong Bay, Ninh Binh and Sapa. This is an opportunity to see Hanoi in a whole new light.

Get ready for an eye-opening conversation with my close associate and mentor, Ha, (Hannah) - a proud Hanoian professional with deep roots in the city. Spoiler Alert: In the show we don’t walk the well-trodden tourist paths of Hanoi. We go below the surface to uncover its Christian background: Coffee culture, and the history behind the collective living quarters of Hanoi and how the Doi Moi period has shaped Hanoi and essentially the Vietnam you are visiting today.

 00:05:31 - Update on Typhoon Yagi's 
00:12:00 - Discovering Hanoi Below the Surface
 00:18:19 - Catholic Heritage 
 00:22:15 - Coffee Culture
 00:34:03 - Collective Living Quarters in Hanoi
 00:36:26 - The Doi Moi Period

 Tours 
If you would be interested in pursuing a Churches tour, Please email me whataboutvietnam@gmail.com Yagi – Appeals UNICEF - https://www.unicef.org/vietnam/unicef-emergency-appeal-typhoon-yagi-viet-nam Blue Dragon (copy this URL and paste into your browser)... https://www.bluedragon.org/emergency-appeal-yagi/

 The Collective living quarters https://www.tubudd.com/blog/hanoi-s-communal-housing-areas-give-a-taste-of-vietnam-past Half a million coffee shops https://en.vietnamplus.vn/vietnam-home-to-half-a-million-coffee-shops-post292030.vnp Vietnam rises from hardship and deep poverty https://www.aier.org/article/how-nations-defeat-poverty/ Book -Bridge Generation – Dau Thuy Ha & Nancy K Napier Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Generation-Spanning-Wartime-Boomtime/dp/B08CWB7PGP.Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Generation-Spanning-Wartime-Boomtime/dp/B08CWB7PGP Thank you to Jack Soloman Photography for his contribution. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here