2945b4d5-5239-4aff-b395-b00b0311b983A happening comedy scene for laughs in Saigon Discover an emerging comedy scene in Saigon Episode 18 S3-18 Emerging comedy in Saigon 00:00 / 31:55 What About if I told you there is a “happening” Comedy Scene in Saigon? After the years just passed, I thought this has to go on the "MUST DO" things during your stay in this vibrant city. I am talking about a fun night out in a funky place right in the heart of Saigon. My guest, Niall Mackay is no stranger to the comedy scene in Saigon having lived in Vietnam since 2016. A well known Stand Up Comedian, and Podcaster of his own Vietnam podcast “Seven Million bikes”, and “Did that really happen?”, he is ideally placed to talk about the evolution of English speaking comedy in Saigon. Niall takes us through some great stories of how the comedy scene has matured with some surprising talent and venues. As an organiser, promoter, and comedian himself he shares with us the bevy of talent coming through. From local Vietnamese doing English speaking comedy, to the many Expats who also relish the chance to jump on stage and bring the house down. Niall hopes to be back on stage next week. Check out http://www.sevenmillionbikes.com/ to find tickets to shows and everything about his podcasts. Kerry Newsome Don’t forget - Night out entertainment - COMEDY show - Saigon - its bound to set the right tone for the rest of your trip or for the trip home. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S5-E8 – Empowering the Traveller: In the fight against Human Trafficking S5-E8 – Empowering the Traveller in the fight against Human Trafficking in Vietnam Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Now, while I love telling travel stories and introducing interesting guests on the show, occasionally I get the opportunity to delve a little deeper into Vietnam and maybe bring your awareness to a more human interest story of Vietnam. Today we're going to find out how some Vietnamese actually experience serious hardship and poverty and become more vulnerable to human trafficking. And while we are travelers, we may see things that we don't quite understand, or maybe we see them and think, oh, that doesn't look quite right, and we experience the poverty, we see it, we don't always know what to do about it. Do we give the beggar money or food? Do we report it? Who to? What impact can we really make to make a difference? My guest today is the lovely Kim Miller, and she's going to give us firsthand knowledge of Vietnam's struggle with human trafficking. I think you're going to be blown away when you hear the work that she's doing with a company called Blue Dragon, which is really out there trying to eradicate human trafficking. Plus, Kim herself needs our help to fulfill her dream. I'd like you to welcome Kim to the program as we talk some serious stuff, but some interesting stuff that I think is going to make your trip to Vietnam so much more richer, if that's the word. And I think it's going to give you a bit of a background and context to some of the things you're seeing. So let's welcome Kim to the program. Kim, welcome to What About Vietnam? Kim Miller: Thank you so much, Kerry. I've listened to so many of your episodes and as somebody who's lived and worked in Vietnam, I still find them incredibly interesting in learning about new places that I can visit and travel to and about the people and the culture. So I'm really excited to be talking to you today. Kerry Newsome: Oh, that's good to know. It's always nice to talk to people who listen to my podcast. That always warms my heart. Kim, look, you're an Australian girl. I know that you share your time between Australia and Vietnam. Tell us, you know, how you got interested in Vietnam in the first place. Like, what is it about Vietnam that captured your interest as a traveller? Kim Miller: I actually came to Vietnam to work before I'd ever travelled in Vietnam, which I think is fairly rare, a little bit different to how most people end up in Vietnam. I learned about Blue Dragon Children's Foundation where I work before I'd ever travelled to Vietnam. So I'd heard about it from friends, from people who'd worked and lived in Vietnam, and I'd always been intrigued. I'd always wanted to travel to Southeast Asia. But I hadn't actually travelled very much in my life. And so when I first came to Vietnam to work for Blue Dragon, it was very new to me. I was experiencing it all for the very first time. Kerry Newsome: That would have been quite pioneering, I would have thought. I mean, I know I first visited back in 2007. And, you know, people then thought, gosh, you know, that was brave. That was crazy, you know, going to Vietnam. Because as you and I would know, Vietnam has a kind of a history with us that we consider more in the view of the Vietnam War rather than it being a country. Would you say that's true? Kim Miller: Yeah, and I guess my experience of Vietnam really came from the people I'd known who were working there. In some ways, I'd expected to come to a country that was far less developed than what I found it to be. I came across for the first time in 2012 and moved across full-time in 2014. And so I guess, yeah, my image of what Hanoi in particular might look like was a lot less developed than what I found when I arrived. Kerry Newsome: Okay, so did you get a chance, and during your roles over there, did you get a chance to do some exploring in Vietnam? Kim Miller: I have. I definitely haven't done as much as I'd like to, and there is so much more to see. I've mostly seen towards the north, a little bit in the center, and I have been down to Saigon, down to Ho Chi Minh City for work and had a little bit of a chance to explore down on the Mekong Delta. I've been up to Sa Pa and, of course, Ha Long Bay, been down to Nha Trang and Dalat, and around some of the more countryside places, the rural parts near Hanoi, like Mai Chau is one of my absolute favourite places to go to get away from the city. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, it's a very interesting place too, isn't it? I went there with a friend who had sent me there on a trajectory to find and discover their textiles and some of the materials and things that they weave, some of their crafts and things like that. So, besides it being beautiful countryside, it was extremely interesting from that perspective. Kim Miller: Really interesting. Yeah, it was the first time that I'd seen the weaving happening and their five-coloured sticky rice was definitely a drawcard for me. I've been back a couple of times now in particular to try the sticky rice and the lake down the bottom of my toe as well. Mammoth, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I've done quite a bit of swimming there, much to the surprise, I guess, of the people, the homestay where I was staying. They hadn't seen people swim in that lake before, but I've spent a lot of time in that lake as well. I absolutely love it down there, Macho. Kerry Newsome: It's really come a long way too. Recently, I know that I think a fishing restaurant has been built there. It was being built at the time I was there, but it actually sits on top of a fishing farm. in the lake. Because you know the lake is huge to navigate, so they do a lot of fish farming. And this restaurant, you can't get any fresher fish. It's literally on the lake, on the farm. Kim Miller: Straight from the lake, delicious. That sounds amazing. Kerry Newsome: I know what I'll be trying the next time I'm there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. So, you know, like good segue into talk about food in Vietnam. Do you have any favorites? Like what would you suggest to travelers listening to the program and thinking about food? Kim Miller: Oh, look, I have so many favorites. And I'm not going to pronounce this correctly. I get in trouble for my friends and colleagues every time. Thank you. It's called Pho Chien Phong and it's kind of, it's only found in Hanoi, in one particular street in Hanoi. I kind of call it like the fast food of Vietnam. And it's basically fried squares of rice paper that bubble up like little pillows. And it's in this really interesting gravy with beef and tomato and onion. And it's quite rare in terms of the sort of food that I generally eat in Vietnam, which is so fresh and delicious. It's just like a real comfort food, especially great for in winter. So yeah, that's one of my favorites. And of course, you know, Bun Cha, Sunday morning chicken soup for Gar is, you know, to die for. And I'm very partial to a coconut coffee, a cafe soda as well. Kerry Newsome: Gosh; You're really my best friend now. That is my first go-to when I get to Vietnam. I just adore it. Absolutely. Kim Miller: Yeah, I made it my mission to try a few different places each time I go to try somewhere different to see if I can find a favorite, but I keep going back to one or two standards every time. Kerry Newsome: And if I was to ask you, you know, do you have any like favorite things you love to do? You know, my listeners are always asking for local advice and advice from travelers who've maybe just discovered a bit of a gem that's not on the on the map yet or you know is not sort of drowned out with tourists and that like do you have a a favorite thing you love doing or a place that you love going to that we could share with you know a hundred thousand or so listeners just to keep it between us you know it's just to keep my secret places yeah yeah i think Kim Miller: Ho Dong Do, there's a little lake Ho Dong Do, it's only about 90 minutes out of Hanoi and so it's kind of my favorite place to be able to get on the motorbike, just drive out of the city and I feel myself relaxing the further away I get and you know the further into the rice paddies you get and then you arrive at this beautiful lake, that's yeah, that's kind of my favorite just a weekend escape and I think I think people who kind of live in Hanoi tend to know it's there and head there, but I don't know of any tourists who've been there. I think because it might be a little bit challenging to get to if you didn't have your own transport maybe, but it's definitely one of my favorites. And how do you spell it? So it's H-O for lake, D-O-N, and then I think it's just D-O. Kerry Newsome: Ah, right. Okay. Good to know. Good to know. Because Hanoi is one of those places where, you know, trying to find somewhere just, you know, two or three hours away from Hanoi is a little bit challenging. I mean, you've got two hours now on the highway to Halong Bay. You're still three or four hours to Ninh Binh. I mean, I'm going to check out Yen Bai. I think it's called. It's about three and a bit hours out of Hanoi on my next trip. So, I'm always keen to find cute places or little escapes from Hanoi for people like that so that they know that, you know, that's kind of the time allotment because sometimes you can chew up a lot of time getting around Vietnam because you know, it's got some miles and not always the best roads. So, you know, finding the right transport is often challenging and you know, people are wanting to figure out, well, how many days have I got and how do I spread them about? And, you know, Hanoi is a really interesting city and very different, but, you know, maybe two or three days, four days, you're done and you want to do something, you know, sideline. So that sounds very, very interesting. I'll have to put some links, I think, to that in the show notes. Now Kim, I want to probably talk to you more now about Vietnam and the struggles that you and I have, you've certainly educated me more so recently in Vietnam. in regard to the poverty cycle and certainly where that leaves people vulnerable to human trafficking. So maybe for everyone, just to give us some context, maybe throw us some numbers. Can you give us some rough idea? I mean, the population of Vietnam is coming up to around about 100 million. they're saying now. And I've, you know, just in researching to do this show with you, you know, I'm, I'm hearing that there's over, over a million, uh, that are considered below the poverty line. I I'm, I'm thinking that's fairly short of the real number, but maybe give us some numbers around just, you know, what, how big the problem is, I guess. Kim Miller: I think, It's kind of telling that, so Blue Dragon has rescued just under 1,500 victims of human trafficking, people who've been tricked, lied to, and trafficked. And that, you know, is absolutely the tip of the iceberg. We've rescued people from every single province in Vietnam. And so I think it kind of shows just how widespread that problem is. We're not even just rescuing people from remote or rural areas, we are rescuing people from the cities and trying to protect people from the cities as well. And so I think whenever people ask for numbers about the number of people who are trafficked globally or in Vietnam and Really, the only number we can give you with absolute certainty is the number of people that we have rescued because there are so many people who are yet to be rescued or who we may never learn about or who may never return home safely. And so, yeah, I think those most telling numbers is just the number of people that we've rescued and the fact that it's from every single province around Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: And it's interesting that you mention about every province and city because I was to understand the little bit I do know that there was some concentration up in the north and certainly in the ethnic minority areas and where we find Vietnam's borders very close to China. Is that fair to say? Kim Miller: So that absolutely would have been the case before COVID. That was definitely true. Since COVID though, we've seen a very different scene when it comes to human trafficking. and people being tricked and trafficked from all over Vietnam. And they're being trafficked into different places as well. So at the moment, some of our most common rescues and our most challenging rescues are actually people who are being trafficked into, it was firstly Cambodia, and now also Myanmar, Laos, Thailand, and they're being trafficked into forced scam compounds where they're being tricked into thinking perhaps they're going for a job, they're applying for a job where they'll be working in an office. Perhaps they think they're just going on a date with a boy that they've met. Maybe they think they're going for a job in a restaurant or a telephone shop, a phone shop in one of the cities. But they're being tricked and trafficked into these other countries where they're being forced to work as slaves. And so that where they're coming from now isn't just in those northern border regions. Although when we first started doing this work, we definitely did find that there were many locations along northern Vietnam where human trafficking was more prevalent than in other areas. Kerry Newsome: It's such a silent, killer and so hard to detect. I know I got involved with another charity called the Children's Education Foundation, and that's around sponsorship of girls' education. And getting close to these girls that I sponsored over the years and working with an interpreter, I was able to kind of get a feel for just how they connect and, you know, they connect like us. They use, you know, social media and things like that. And just how scarily easy it was for these girls to be impressed with connections and reach outs from people offering them jobs. And I would try to explain to them that they know nothing about those people. Those people have got no credentials. They need to research and be very cautious. But in their kind of their beautiful naivety and ability to believe everybody's kind of good and would do the right thing by them, they can so easily be misguided or caught up in situations that are just not what they appear to be. Has that been your experience too? Kim Miller: Absolutely, yeah. People who are looking for a better life, they're looking for a way to be able to care for their family. You know, we had one young mum who is living in Hazang. She has four children. And she was already living in absolute poverty when her husband had passed away. And so she was left with four young children too who were, you know, a baby and a toddler. And she had been talking to somebody on Zalo, a social communication app in Vietnam that's very popular. And that person had been talking to her about a job that she could go to if she could leave her children in the village with other people to care for them. She could go for this job where she would earn good money She could send money back to her children and she would be able to earn enough money to come back to her family. And she was really lucky. We were running part of our anti-trafficking strategies that we're developing anti-trafficking boards, which is groups of people who become experts in communities to run workshops to help people understand the tricks that the traffickers use. And just like what you were saying, ways that they can keep themselves safe, red flags that they can look out for. And in this workshop that she just happened to go to, she realized that the messages that she'd been getting were basically word for word what the traffickers had been using to trick people into going to Cambodia to work in these scam centers. And so it was just she was looking for a way to feed her children, you know, to be able to help those kids survive. And we have no doubt, had she gone, you know, she would never have seen those children again. But because she went, the really great thing, because she went to that workshop, we now know she exists. And so we were able to support her. Not only is she now safe from human trafficking because she understood the dangers of it and that, you know, that what was being offered to her as being too good to be true actually was too good to be true. But we were able to buy her a very pregnant cow, you know, healthy with veterinary teeth, Very valuable. Yeah, help her learn how to care for the cow. And then to have that income, to be able to have an ongoing income without needing to leave her children and leave her community. We're also helping to pay school fees for her children, as well as helping her with that emergency money to begin with. So it's being able to help people who are looking for a way to have a better life, who might take a risk. because they can't see a way of their life improving without taking that risk. It's really important to be able to help them stay in their community and not to have to leave and not to have to take those risks. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and it's an interesting analysis to look at the traffickers as well as those trafficked. And I'm a follower of your founder, Michael, And just some of the blogs that he's written and the stories he's told about just how desperate the traffickers are, as well as the trafficked. You know, the hype in movies and things like that about it being, you know, all big business and flamboyant and, you know, like, it's not always the story. And as you say, some of these people that are suggesting that, you know, there's work to be obtained in Myanmar or there's work to be obtained in China. You know, it's better in Cambodia. These people are actually often known to these people that get trafficked. So, you know, it's scary that, you know, you can be that close to these people and the traffickers are thinking that they're going to make some extra dollars in a much easier fashion, without any concept of the slavery or the danger that they are actually putting these people through. I mean, some are, but some are fairly innocent, from what I've heard, that they don't actually know what concept they're selling, and when it turns out to go bad, it must be dreadful. Kim Miller: Absolutely, yeah, and that was one of the things like when we started, you know, we knew at Blue Dragon that we needed, doing the rescues is fine. We have social workers, psychologists, lawyers, we have a team of people that can really care for survivors when they come home and help them to be able to rebuild their lives. But we can't change what's happened to them. And so we needed to find a way to be able to end human trafficking and to be able to keep people safe in the first place. And that was one of the things that we realized is that we knew a lot about the victims of human trafficking, but we needed to know who the traffickers were. And we did. We found that the profile of a human trafficker in Vietnam is very similar to the profile of a victim. living in absolute poverty, low education levels, people from ethnic minority communities are often overrepresented. And again, it's finding ways, it's where these anti-trafficking workshops and the anti-trafficking boards that have been set up, their goal also is to be able to stop people from being vulnerable to poverty, because then we're going to have less people also not only taking a risk that ends up with them being trafficked, but it also stops people from becoming traffickers, from doing something that maybe they might not ordinarily do, but to be able to improve their own lives as well. It's such an important thing. It's such an important thing that we're looking at both sides of it. Kerry Newsome: I mean, education is just so invaluable in this situation, isn't it? For these people to get access to it, to acknowledge that this kind of deception is out there and to be mindful, not to have that open heart, which many of the Vietnamese have, to new things and opening up their homes to people. As travelers in particular, you find yourself at the generosity of many people that have very little and they give so much. And to then discover that they're being exploited in this way, to me, it just kills me. You've told us that you do share your time between here and Vietnam. So tell us what you yourself do in Vietnam and then we'll lead into that great swim that you've got coming up. Kim Miller: Yeah, look, I'm in a really unique role at Blue Dragon. I often say I think I've got the best job in the organisation. My role is that I started in Vietnam at Blue Dragon as the school's coordinator. So effectively, I work with schools and students and teachers and supporters of Blue Dragon all around the world, and I help them understand the issues, the cycle of poverty, the ongoing cycle, human trafficking, modern slavery, child slavery, and helping them understand the ways that people become vulnerable and the things that we can do to help them lift out of that poverty and be less at risk of human trafficking. I also work with our supporters and our business supporters and our friends in Australia. And so my role is kind of that dual role of working with people all around the world of school age and students, but also working with our donors and supporters here in Australia. Kerry Newsome: In getting back to where I started in the program in talking about travelers, and I'm one of them, so when I'm traveling to Vietnam, I do come across situations where I think, oh, I don't know, that just doesn't look right, or I just get, you know, my antennas go up and I just feel like that person is being forced to do something against their will, or I don't know. It's very hard to gauge, as we've just said, that deception-wise, there's some amazing tricks in their trade on how they can represent themselves. But if you are a traveler, we talked about before we recorded this show about an opportunity for how travelers can make a difference? What are some of the things that we can do to help this process or aid this process other than, you know, straight donations? And we get to that and we're certainly going to get to where we can help you. But just as we're out and about, you know, is there anything that we can do or we should take a note of? Kim Miller: Yeah, absolutely. There was one day I was coming back from a school that I'd been speaking at in Hanoi and it was in between the two, there were two main lockdowns in COVID in Vietnam. And it was in between those two lockdowns. Kids had been able to go back to school for a little while. And I was riding back to the Blue Dragon Center. It was about 11 o'clock in the morning, a super hot day. And sitting out from the curb, about a meter and a half from the edge of the road, was a little girl sitting, holding a basket, as you often see people living in poverty do in Hanoi to earn money. And in that basket, she was selling things like toothpicks and chewing gum and tissues. And she positioned herself kind of in the middle of the road so that hundreds and hundreds of motorbikes had to ride around her. And as people walked past or as they rode past, they were often dropping some money, generally only one or two thousand dong, five thousand dong in her basket. And I stopped, she was a little girl who I had seen before, and we were very close to the Blue Dragon Center at the time. I could actually see the Blue Dragon Center from where we were. And I stopped to sort of find out what she was doing. And she very proudly pulled out a wad of money from her pocket. And, you know, in real terms, it might've been $5. It might've been enough money to buy her lunch and to buy her a drink that day. Um, and I sort of, I said, okay, all right, come on, let's, let's go to blue dragon. It was nearly lunchtime. So I said, let's, let's go to blue dragon and we'll have some lunch. And she said she couldn't go because she had had problems with her teeth. And she'd been told that day by her mom that she wasn't allowed to go to blue dragon and she wasn't allowed to go to school because she really needed to go to the hospital to get her teeth fixed. I kind of realized that she wasn't going to go with me at that time, so I went and bought us both a bottle of water and I sat down on the side of the road with her, which meant that people stopped giving her money. And in doing that, she realized, okay, I may as well go with Kim to Blue Dragon because nobody's going to give me money now anyway. And of course, when we got to Blue Dragon, I was able to talk to the social workers who were able to go to her mom, find her mom, take her to the hospital, you know, get her mouth fixed to be able to pay for her education, to make sure that they had somewhere safe to live. And it just really, you know, it really brought home to me in a really visceral way that all of those people who gave her that little bit of money on their way past, It was very generous and kind of them, but what it did was maybe help her survive with a bottle of water and some food for that day, but it didn't help improve her life. It didn't help her go to school to be able to get out of the cycle of poverty or to have somewhere safe to sleep that night. And one of the things that we can do as travelers that I wish more people knew about, and we can do this anywhere in the world, is take a pin, pop a pin, open up your phone, go to Google Maps, put out a pin, and remember where you are. Make a few little notes for yourself about what the child's wearing, where they are, if you can find a street sign that's even better, and then go to Google and find out who is a charity or an organization, a children's charity, that's working with children and homeless children in this area. Simply, if anybody had gone straight to Google on that day and they'd messaged homeless child Hanoi, Blue Dragon would have been the first thing that came up. By sending a message to us just through our social media, which again would have come up very easily, would have been one of the first things that come up. We could have had a social worker out to see her within five or ten minutes of her being there. We have a team of, we call them outreach workers. They're basically social workers who are out on the streets every day and through the night. to look for street kids, to look for vulnerable children, and to be able to help them, not just in that moment, but over the long term. And it's something that I know that we can do anywhere in the world, is just, you know, open up your phone, do a Google search, send a pin to show, you know, people, the social workers or the organization where the child is, and you'll be able to find somebody who'll be able to help them, not just for the moment, but for the long term. Kerry Newsome: And you know, I think that information is invaluable. I mean, I don't know how many times I would have loved to have had that initiative to do something like that. I think for me, getting my head around just the fact that organisations like yours, like Blue Dragon, exists and has the capacity to offer this kind of assistance is just truly amazing and inspiring. And I think for travellers, I think in their hearts, from people that I talk to, I think, you know, they would like to know what they can do if those circumstances you know, coming to their experience of the country. Because basically, you know, no one wants to see that happen, but they're not really sure where to get the support. I mean, even back onto the human trafficking, just I think in earlier years, because I was involved with Vietnam in, you know, kind of the early 2000s, I don't think I thought that Vietnam had strong enough penalties against people that did these kinds of things. But, you know, that's changed dramatically and those penalties have become quite severe now. So, you know, you can get 20 years plus imprisonment for that. So all of that has kind of spurred on, I guess, a greater want and desire for people to become more active and play a more active role. in supporting charities like Blue Dragon in doing what they're doing, because this kind of work is just so important. Let's talk, Kim, now about what your dream is. And I mean, you've already done some great fundraising work for the charity, but you might like to tell everyone about what you've got planned for July. Kim Miller: Yeah, it's a little bit crazy. The thing that I love most about what I'm doing is that anybody can do this in their own form. I'm taking something that I love and that I'm passionate about and I'm using it to do something great, to do something positive in the world. And so I am a swimmer, an ocean swimmer. I've only been able to say that since about December 2020. But yeah, I love ocean swimming and over the last couple of years I've started swimming further and further and I have the opportunity in July this year to attempt to swim across the English Channel from England to France to raise money for Blue Dragons. So I'm raising money for Blue Dragons. anti-trafficking programs. When I talked about those anti-trafficking boards and the sustainable income initiatives, paying for education, we know that to set all of that up in a community costs around $20,000. So I've set a kind of audacious goal of raising $200,000 from my English Channel Swim so that I can help 10 communities have these anti-trafficking programs initiated and keep thousands more people safe from human trafficking? Kerry Newsome: My hat goes off to you. I think it's a fabulous thing that you're doing. And for everyone listening, I'm going to be putting the link in the show notes. So it's like you're one click away, literally, for having the opportunity to be able to support this charity, to support Kim in what she's doing. And, you know, remember her tips about when you are visiting Vietnam and, you know, that pin in the Google map, easy peasy for us to do that kind of thing. We already know of the organization that we can pass that information on to. But certainly if we can get behind Kim to support her in this swim, audacious as that 200,000 is, I'm hoping that my generous listeners will definitely help you in this way and we can do more for Blue Dragon and just to break that poverty cycle and eradicate human trafficking in Vietnam. Kim Miller: I'm just so grateful, you know, to have this opportunity and to be able to talk about Blue Dragon's work. I think whenever I travel somewhere new, I want to know not just about the amazing things I can see as a tourist, but how I can help and what those social issues are underneath the bits that maybe I can't see for myself. And, you know, to have the opportunity for other travelers coming to Vietnam to do that as well. It's such a beautiful country with incredible people. I work with a team of incredible Vietnamese superheroes. And I'm so proud to be able to talk about their work and to let other people coming to Vietnam know what they can do to help keep even more people safe and create that change. So thank you so much for the opportunity. Kerry Newsome: Kim, it's been my pleasure. And as I said, everyone, look out for the link in the show notes, whether you listen to my podcast on your favorite channel, your Spotify, your iTunes, your Google podcast, your Amazons, your whatever. What About Vietnam is there. You can come to the website also at whataboutvietnam.com. You'll also see the summary notes there, which will also have the links. So let's get behind Kim and see what we can do to play our part in eradicating human trafficking in Vietnam. Thanks, Kim.

S5-E27 Discovering Catholic Treasures of Vietnam S5-E27 Discovering Catholic Treasures of Vietnam Episode 27 S5-E27 Discovering Catholic Treasures of Vietnam 00:00 / 44:19 Get ready to discover a side of Vietnam that remains largely unknown to most Western visitors Vietnam’s northern provinces hold secrets beyond the usual tourist trail—and in this episode, we go “church hunting” to uncover them. Joined by my returning guest, Ha (Hannah) from S5-E18 – Hanoi Below the Surface, we explore the stunning Catholic heritage in regions like Ninh Binh and Nam Dinh. With roots dating back to the 16th century and flourishing during French colonial times, Catholicism in Vietnam has left behind a breathtaking legacy of Gothic cathedrals, convents, and monasteries. We visit iconic sites like Phú Nhai Basilica and Bùi Chù Cathedral, as well as hidden gems like the Chau Son Monastery. All in flourishing communities. Ha shares her local insights and personal reflections as we trace the footsteps of history through quiet villages brimming with faith, architectural wonder, and community spirit. If you thought Vietnam was only temples and beaches—prepare to be surprised. These soulful spaces welcome all who seek beauty, history, and a deeper connection to place. The Churches we saw in our trip are listed below. Church 1 -Bui Chu Cathedral Church 2 - Phu Nhai Basilica Church 3 - Kien Lao Church. Church 4 - Hung Nghia Church Church 5 – Chau Son Monastery Church 6 - Phat Diem Stone Cathedral Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

9d1abf46-8039-4709-ab25-207ac4f01231Ha Giang Loop adventure, Vietnam's final frontier The Ha Giang Loop - Vietnams final frontier Episode 5 S3-05 Ha Giang Loop 00:00 / 30:17 In this episode we take you to the Ha Giang Loop - with my guest - Tom Stone. “The Ha Giang Loop”, as it is referred to on many a travel website and Instagram page is a region of approximately 350Km located in north Vietnam. About 5 hours drive or 300kms from Hanoi. It is commonly referred to as a bike riders paradise. One of the most photographed scenery of the whole loop, is the Ma Pi Leng Pass which links the towns of Dong Van and Meo Vac, and is carved into the side of the mountains. My guest Tom Stone, who now lives in the main town says “If you are prepared to make the journey”, you won’t be disappointed.” Tom has been running tours in the Ha Giang region for nearly 12 years. Find out :- - What to expect on “The loop” - Forms of transport - Best times of year to travel - Considerations when booking a tour - Accommodation misconceptions Its a big episode talking about a big area ….definitely worth checking out. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S5-E14 - Phong Nha. Family fun for everyone S5 - E14 - Phong Nha – The family fun destination with something for everyone Kerry Newsome : Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Today I'm going to be broaching a subject that seems to be coming up more and more for me as I'm working with travellers, new travellers in particular to Vietnam. And that's a growing trend around families travelling to Vietnam for their holidays. It's probably only come to the fore mostly in the last 12 to 18 months, but I do see a growing trend of Westerners really looking for a holiday destination where their kids can come and experience a different culture. They can discover and learn a little bit of history. And, you know, they can get distracted from their tablets and their devices and get their heads out of that. In particular, I've had some very encouraging feedback from some clients. you know, saying their kids, whilst they were a bit ambivalent about coming, they got here, they had a great time. And, you know, words like epic holiday and just the best time. We got to do things, you know, we never get to do at home. Even mum and dad did things that we just never thought that they would do. And one of the places that seems to grab that kind of experience and really highlight it is Phong Nha. And today I'm lucky to be joined by Ben Mitchell, who not only is a family man, but also runs the Phong Nha Farmstay, and on a daily basis is meeting and greeting families and helping them get a better understanding of the region and, you know, doing what he can and sharing his knowledge to help make their trip really worthwhile and really extra special. So I'd like to welcome Ben to the show. Ben Mitchell: Thanks Kerry Kerry Newsome: Okay, so for everybody, let's start with the basics, like when we talk about Vietnam and we talk about the main stops on a tourist map, where does Phong Nha sit in relation to that and what's the best way to get there? Ben Mitchell : Well, Phong Nha is located in northern central Vietnam. Pretty well halfway between Hoi An, another family favourite, and Hanoi, which is the hub of visiting all the different areas in the north. Kerry Newsome: Like for me, this trip, I decided to go to and then I came across by train. And that was a cinch. That was into Dong Hoi, then got picked up by car, and I'm here in like 35 minutes. So we know that we can get to Dong Hoi, which is the main city by air, it's a proper airport, so you can fly from Hanoi or you can fly from Saigon into Dong Hoi. train, the reunification train runs top to bottom, so you can pick that up in various places to come to Dong Hoi, once again, very easy and a comfortable train. Number three is private car, so that's an option. And I have done that for some of my travellers so that, you know, maybe they're a big family group or their family you know, is coming with a second family. So there's two families traveling together. So it might be more economic and more, you know, palatable to them to come by, you know, a small mini bus and that to get to here. But it's, while it's not on the tourist map, it's not that far off the tourist map. Would you agree? Ben Mitchell : Yeah, it is. Dong Hoi is our gateway, so we've got the airport there connecting us with Saigon and Hanoi. The train station, as you say, it's a good place to break the journey between the north and the central of Da Nang. It's 35 minutes with a private car from Dong Hoi station or airport out to us at Phong Nha. As far as those public transport ways of getting in and out, I would say the train and the plane are good. The buses, I'm not sure I'd put my family on the local buses or the overnight buses. They call them sleeper buses. It's a bit of an oxymoron. You don't get much sleep, but they are very cheap. And they are very convenient because, you know, getting from Ninh Binh or Hanoi to Phong Nha, they bring you straight in and out of here. The same with heading south. So cheap and convenient, but probably not the best way to do it. As far as getting south from here, a lot of the best things to see are in between these destinations of Phong Nha, Hue, Hue, Da Nang or Hoi Hoi An. So by getting a private car, you can actually visit some of these really cool places in between, which is not possible if you're on the train or the bus or obviously flying over the top. Kerry Newsome : I want to set up everybody. So when you're thinking about coming to Vietnam and you're wanting to know, plan out your trip, how many days you've got to spend. I just want to make sure that you consider this as a destination that you probably need to allow a few days to really take it in, to enjoy it at a pace. So I'm going to get Ben to talk a bit more about that. But ahead of that, I also want to talk to you about the safety angle. Now, a lot of people think about caving and they think about trekking and jungles and, you know, all of that kind of aspect of a place. They consider that, oh, they might have to have a level of fitness or health or, you know, all of that side of thing. I really don't want you to consider that or see that as a hindrance to come here. Sure, you're going to have to think about age groups and whether you can withstand certain levels of heat or you've got some levels of endurance, but you don't have to be a health freak or you don't have to be super fit to come here. There's all different levels of experience, but you also have to check out things like your travel insurance and things like that. Can you speak a little bit more to that, Ben, because that safety bit does come up a fair bit. Ben Mitchell : Yeah, there's the safety aspect of it with caving. And a lot of people sort of go, oh, caves? Oh, hang on. No, we won't be going there. We're about holidaying in Vietnam. We're not cavers. A lot of people go, cave? I've heard about that. It's $3,000. And it takes, like, multiple days to do. So we won't be going there. But Phong Nha does have a lot more to offer for the tourist, traveller, visitor, family travel. It has a lot more to offer than just coming here for caves. As far as safety goes, all of the different activities in the area to do with the National Park and the caving are heavily monitored by the government. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and I mean, like, you know, I'm going to take for granted that everybody that listens to my show has got really good level of common sense. So you're going to come equipped with, you know, hats, slip, slop and slap as far as sunscreens are concerned, maybe some bug spray, you know, like good walking shoes, you know, just making sure you've got comfortable gear to get around in to do these kind of things. But don't think you've got to do any pre-setup or pre-exercise or anything prep-wise to come and experience this because you're going to see all levels, all sizes, all age groups experiencing different aspects of the park, as Ben said, and also of the caves. And, you know, at my age, I certainly, you know, thought, you know, I better make sure I'm kind of at my best level of fitness, but I really found it very easy and we're going to talk more about that in a minute. What I do want to talk about and really pick Ben's brains about is the range of activities here. Because as he said before, it's not just about the caves. The caves is definitely its drawcard and it's certainly where Vietnam tourism painted and really put the focus on. But there's so much more. So Ben, let's kind of spread our wings here and talk about some of the broad range of activities that are available to families here. Ben Mitchell : Two things I'd say. One is that There's something here for everyone, no matter what your level of adventure is or your level of mobility. And the other thing is that Phong Nha really has what is the essence of the atmosphere of rural Vietnam. 15, 16 years ago, I used to love going to Hoi An and jumping on a bicycle and riding around through the delta behind Hoi An, through the rural countryside, all the farming and the little laneways and things. Over the years, that area has become very heavily developed nowadays and it's very different to what it was like back then, but coming here, it very much has that feeling of when you walk out the front of your homestay or your hotel or your farmstay or your accommodation, Yeah, you're in Vietnam, in rural Vietnam, and to walk out of the village even and around the village is quite a, or bicycling through the countryside to different locations like the Bong Lai Valley. You can soak up Vietnam. Everywhere you look, it's a photo opportunity of timeless Vietnam. As far as the caves and the National Park go, I wouldn't say to come here and just focus on getting to this cave and that cave, because often The best part of the whole day trip of getting out to these places is the actual trip itself. Getting around the area and looking at the scenery and learning about the history. It's got a lot more to offer than just we've got to get to this cave or that cave and then move on to the next part of Vietnam sort of thing. Kerry Newsome : And, you know, that, Ben, really was my experience as well. I mean, just getting on the back of a bike. Now, there might be a lot of people that say, oh, gee, you know, I wouldn't get on a motorbike. Well, Ben and I have had a bit of a laugh about this concept and around concerns around getting on the back of a motorbike here in Vietnam. Personally, I'm going to say I feel more confident on the back of an experienced rider, a Vietnamese rider who knows the lay of the land, who's a qualified rider and is employed by an established company. So, you know, you wouldn't want to put your fears ahead of that kind of experience. Because as Ben said, getting out and about on that bike, touring through all of those streets that lead through the paddy fields and, you know, you see those beautiful karst mountains and, you know, experience funny little boats that you take the bike on that floats you over to the other side. You ride across hanging bridges and You know, these are things, and this is where I think the kids get it, because they come back with, that was epic, because in their own countries, whether it's the US, whether it's the UK, whether it's Australia, that kind of opportunity is not going to happen in their everyday opportunity. They're not going to get that on the Gold Coast. They're not going to get that in New York City. They're not going to get that on those kinds of holidays. This is rural Vietnam and its rustic nature and its ability to facilitate these experiences for a family to do it together. And I'm talking mum, dad, grandparents, you know, right down to young children. I think collectively they all can get something out of it. So maybe Ben talked to us about, I don't know, the beginning of the duck stop, or I don't know, what's a duck stop? Ben Mitchell: There's an area called the Bong Lai Valley, and up that valley there's a series of community-based tourism places. One of them is called the Duck Stop, which in recent years has become very popular. It's a very unique attraction. People love it. Kids love it. Adults love it. Adolescents love it. Grandparents love it. Everyone loves it. It's huge. But what it basically is, is a local person who's by the name of Quinn, actually, and he's trained his ducks and he employs people to Training a duck, well there you go. Yeah, it's hard to explain. And everyone that goes there tells everyone to go there. But along that valley, that valley itself is a great day trip. You can buy farm-to-table lunches at local people's houses along the valley. You can ride around it by bicycle. You can go out there by a Phong Nha rider, by one of the local motorbike taxi riders. There's a place up the top of the valley where they've got what they call the Monkey Bridge and a big swing over a cliff. The Monkey Bridge is where you're challenged to ride a bicycle across a very narrow bridge over a pond. It's a fun day out, the Bong Lai Valley, full of community-based tourism. And with the community-based tourism, too, that relates back heavily to the way that you would see the National Park. I mean, you can book a National Park tour, or you can rent a car, or you can rent a scooter yourself and ride around the National Park if you're that way inclined. But probably one of the best ways to do it, and one of the things we're proudest of, is the hopping, as Kerry just said, hopping on the back of a local rider, Going to the Paradise Cave, the Botanical Gardens, which is a jungle tracking area and swimming area, going to historical sites like the Eight Lady Cave, going to the Moc Eco-Trail where the geysers come up from a cave system, geysers of cold water where you can swim in the jungle there. The Dark Cave, the Moc Nam, these different facilities around the park, different attractions, different places, can all be visited by, you know, renting a motorbike rider for the day. The motorbike riders that we deal with are local people from local households, so each motorbike that you rent is sort of a day's income for people. And it's quite inexpensive, really, from our side, from the Westerners' visitors' side. But for the local people, it's a great income. So it's a good support to the local community. And it also helps to justify your coming here, being able to support the local community. From a safety perspective with those community-based riders, community-based tourism workers, from a safety perspective of going with them, I personally wouldn't recommend it if I didn't believe in its safety, but that's my opinion. But to date, we've not really had any issues in the decade and a half we've been working with that. We do get some problems with tourists who rent bikes and ride themselves around the park. That's a fairly regular problem. People take a bit of skin off or they break a bone or something happens. I'm not a big fan of that but I am a very big promoter of going around the park with the local licensed riders who do it daily. These people used to be hunters, they used to be timber cutters, they are used to carrying loads on their motorbikes. But nowadays, rather than working in these unsustainable industries like timber cutting and hunting, they're working in tourism. Yeah, it's a great system. We work out with our guests based on what they're interested in, what they'll see for the day. We discuss that with the writers. We give the people a pod guide with some historical information on it. And away they go for the day. And they can visit the places that we suggested and worked out with them. And the riders take them around to all these places. And they go and wait in a hammock at most of the destinations. that the guests can take as long as they want. It's basically they're traveling at their own pace, doing their own thing. It's great for families. All the riders are well versed on and well aware that mothers like to be able to see all their kids for the whole way around. So yeah, it's a really good system. Kerry Newsome: I take your point on that because I think for me, when I'm talking to people and I'm recommending people to come to Phong Nha, I don't want them to come here being ignorant or clueless around, you know, how to get the best experience here. I mean, this is a bit of a plug for you, Ben, and certainly for Phong Nha Farmstay. I want to thank you for the support over the last few years in the What About Vietnam podcast and looking after, to me, this trip and sponsoring this show. It's been fantastic. But one of the things I love about what you and what Bic have created in the Farmstay is it's not just really great accommodation set in the middle of paddy fields with If you have a check on the website for this show, you're going to see some beautiful sunset photos that I grabbed the other night. But, you know, it's rural, but it's not rough. is the best way for me to say it. Because I think sometimes people think rule is definitely having to rough it and you don't have to do it that way. But one of the things I am really dead set about is about getting good advice, getting good information. And there is two ways to experience any destination for that matter, and that's going with a fixed tour. So that means you follow a group and you start at A and you finish at B and you have a set time and you literally have to, you know, follow the yellow brick road and the person with the flag. What Ben's talking about is being able to advise you around setting up your day the way you want it so that you can start when you want to, finish when you want to, and your drivers and your guides for the day, whatever that is, whether that is going to the caves as part of it, whether it's going out and mixing it up with maybe some kayaking, stopping at the duck stop on the way back, all of that can be kind of curated to your own needs, your own wants, your own party or your own group, your own family's desires for the day. If it's too hot, you can finish early. If you feel, you know, invigorated and you want to explore a bit more and you've got time, they can add it on. So you've got flexibility in that style. And that's probably something that Phong Nha Farmstay is definitely well known for. So if you come to Phong Nha and you want, you know, quality accommodation, but you also want really good advice around putting something together just for you, then it's the ideal place to do it. We talked a little bit before about how much time to allow that. And Ben and I were just discussing before coming on the show about slow travel. Maybe, Ben, you can speak to my listeners just a bit more about, you know, trying not to cram everything in. Ben Mitchell : Yeah, well, making the effort to come to Fongya, a little bit off the beaten path, I think it's worthwhile to try and give yourself at least three days. Now if you're traveling as a family and your kids are sort of eight years old and older, you can get a lot into two or three days. If you're traveling with smaller children, babies, toddlers, I think personally I'd be suggesting traveling Vietnam a bit slower, going to less destinations and spending more time at them. As far as visiting somewhere like Phong Nha with toddlers and a baby goes, I'd be aiming to do sort of one thing per day over four or five days. If you're staying with us at Phong NhaFarmstay, we've got some great common areas that are good for relaxing with the little ones. You've got The older ones can keep busy, you know, we've got bicycles, we've got village laneways and farmland all around us for exploring. Each morning at the farmstay we run a bit of a free tour at 7am where we go for a half hour walk around the village, learning about the village. Often I'll have family staying there and the mother and one child will do it one morning. and the father might do it another morning and there might be a child who never did it. Often two parents will come out and do the morning walk with me and leave the kids in bed. And other families, the whole family will go and that can be like for one morning. Then families can do what I suggest people do on their first day of sightseeing from the farmstay, is go to Phong NhaCave and they can either get a lift up there or they can get a bicycle and ride there. That's a great thing to do on their first day and it's a one thing, not a whole series of things. Going around the park, there's different places you can go to from Fongya Farmstay or from Fongya and you can visit just one thing each day with smaller children because to try and get too much in, as you know, they get tired and they get a bit… worn out and then everyone starts to have a bit of a miserable time. So you've got to get them back after they've done whatever they're doing for the day, have lunch somewhere different each day. There's a lot of different days you can do if you're traveling slower with smaller children. But I recommend families with children who are all sort of over eight and under 18, they can do three days in Phong Nha between the National Park, the Phong Nha Cave and the Bong Lai Valley. They would get three very full days in there. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and probably a good segue into managing a day or your stay here is also the aspect of food. You know, like I've got kids, I've got grandkids and food always features a big part of any stay. And I've had some concerns from parents who have come to me and said, oh, you know, I don't think my kids are going to eat Vietnamese. And I've said, well, that's okay, because there's all types of food that is available to them in Vietnam. Do you want to speak to that, Ben, just on the, you know, availability of food types here? Ben Mitchell: Yeah, well my wife and I have got a restaurant in town and a restaurant at the farmstay and we've, over the years we've learnt to put a menu together that is very much a Vietnamese menu but also offer some Western foods. Like, you know, with a family, there's often one kid and they won't eat anything unless it's white. It's pasta, it's potato, it's chicken, it's okay. Chips. Chips. But then, you know, but, and I mean, then there's everyone in between that level and we'll eat anything. So we've got a menu, our menu is structured to sort of suit a wide range, but Around Phong Nha we've got everything from an Indian restaurant to pizza restaurants to Vietnamese restaurants to very local restaurants. Restaurants that only sell snails and duck eggs. We've got all levels. Kerry Newsome : Okay, and I think for everyone, we've got chips covered. Ben Mitchell: Well, one thing I would mention too, we've got a very good vegan restaurant in Phong Nha which gets incredible reviews. Good to know. The Phong NhaVegan. Kerry Newsome: Ben, just talk us through, you're also a travel family man yourself and traveled overseas recently. Where would you place Phong Nhaas far as cost to travel here and to enjoy a stay for a family? How would you put it? Ben Mitchell: Well, looking again, two things. One, I would say value for cost. I mean, there is products here in Phong Nhathat cost $3,000 for a tour. all the way down to most accommodations will give you a free bicycle. As far as families go, a lot of businesses have got small bicycles and bicycle seats. So you've got all sorts of levels there of everything in between. We've got trekking tours, we've got national parks, seeing the national park. I mean, if you go around the park, it's going to cost you sort of $25 per person, $500,000 per person. to go around on a motorbike. Most of the other transport in the area is by bicycle or, you know, there's a lot of walking things you can do. It just depends, I suppose, on how much of a hurry you're in. If you come to Phong Nha and you've only got one day here, you're going to try and cram as much as you can in and it is going to cost more. The longer that you sort of plan your trip out to stay, The cheaper it'll be. As far as accommodation goes, there's everything here from very cheap homestays to more upmarket villas with private pools. Yeah, I think as far as value and cost goes, even you'd find the most expensive accommodations in the area are less than $200 for a private two-bedroom swimming pool villa with breakfast. So, you know, that's at the top end. It is a very cheap destination. Restaurants in the area are very, very good value for money, very cheap. It's a very competitive and new tourism destination and with high value for money, I would say. Kerry Newsome : Yeah, and that's kind of the ticket that I sell it as well is, you know, the level of experiences that you're going to have, the quality of food, the accommodation level is widespread. But, you know, in my country, to find a family accommodation set up for, you know, parents and three kids, et cetera, you know, there's no way you would get that for $200 for a night. And, you know, we're talking private pool and overlooking the paddy fields and breakfast, you know, included, like, yeah, I don't know of very many places that are offering that kind of value. But I think Ben's quite right also in saying that the activities can be as much or as little as you want. And if you've planned your time and, you know, if I'm arranging a trip, I'm going to be pushing that barrel as to, to try and allow you enough time to enjoy it at a pace that suits. Because one of the things that I do get back from travellers who get a little bit disappointed with Vietnam, and it's because time has been their enemy. They haven't allowed enough time to do things, so they're rushed and, you know, they're trying to fit everything in to make sure that they get to the airport on time to go to the next place. So for sure with Phong Nha and with your family and this sort of time that you can have together to have those experiences and you know I've got testimonials from people who have just said that just the level of confidence that their kids have got since coming to Phong Nha and having the experiences they had. has just gone through the roof, that, you know, it's opened up their thoughts and their minds to travelling more overseas to experience new cultures like nothing else has. So I really, I hope we've answered jointly, you know, any questions that you do have about this region. You can always reach out to Ben through the Phong Nga Farmstay or me directly and I can pass on. Happy to answer any questions if you come to me directly. Is there anything I didn't ask you Ben or anything we didn't cover that we should before we wrap up? Ben Mitchell : I'd go a little bit deeper into getting here and getting away. I think it's good. If you're traveling as a family, as you've said, it can be economical to go by private car over the public transport. And that would allow you to then visit sites around the DMZ, like the Vin Moc Tunnel system and the Ben Hai River Bridge. Staying overnight in Hue, I think is a benefit in that there's a great day trip between Hue and Hoi An as well for families. Visiting, you know, Hai Van Pass, waterfalls, cemeteries, tombs, historical sites. beautiful scenery, coastal scenery. So, you know, heading south or coming from the south into Phong Nha is a, you can turn the actual transit into a big part of the trip as well. Getting to the north is a bit more difficult. You know, it's really a jump. You've got to jump as far as Ninh Binh. There's nothing attracting people between Ninh Binh Hoi An, Ninh Binh, Hanoi and Phong Nha. But to the south, it's pretty action-packed all the way down as far as Hoi An over one or two days. As far as going all the way to Hoi An in one day, yeah, I think the train is an effective travel method there because You can get on the train, you can relax, walk around, enjoy it. If you get a private car straight from here to Hoi An, it is a long day in the car with the family. The kids tend to put them through hell and then they'll get you back. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, I was going to say, who's gone through hell? The kids or the parents. Yeah. I'm game enough to say that, you're not Ben. But my kids are far enough away from me to do that at the moment. Okay, Ben, great to have you on the show. I'm thoroughly enjoying my time here and I think you will too, as I said. Come back to us with any questions that you have and we'll see you on the next show of What About Vietnam? Ben Mitchell: Thanks very much, Kerry.

a3cb4594-a983-42bd-8f42-90bb440d760aNo Visa or Evisa – Getting it right in 2025 What About Vietnam – S1-E10 – No Visa or Evisa – Getting it right in 2025 Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. OK, picture this, if you will. You're at the airport, passport in hand, bags checked. Vietnam, here you come. Then the airline staff looks up at you with that face, you know, the one. And they say, oh, look, sorry, madam, we can't let you board. Your visa doesn't match your flight. Your heart sinks. Holiday over before it's even begun. You look around. Q is a mile long. What do you do? Look, I really, truly don't want that to happen to you. That's why today we're going to talk about how to nail your Vietnam visa, if you even need one. No stuff ups, no dramas. Hello, everyone. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Kerry Newsome and I invite you back to the What About Vietnam podcast. I've been helping travellers like yourselves navigate Vietnam for years. And believe me, the e-visa process is one of the simplest, but also one of the easiest, believe it or not, to get wrong. One wrong date, one missing detail, and suddenly you're scrambling. But the good news is, if you know what to look out for, you can avoid the stress altogether. If you've been planning a trip, especially like this year 2025, you've probably heard the rules have changed again. E-visas are now open to all nationalities and exemptions have been extended for some countries. But the catch is this, a small mistake on your application or assuming your passport makes you exempt could mean you never even get off the ground. Today I want to help you cut through the noise and explain in plain English who needs what how long you can stay and what you must do to avoid being denied access to your flight and boarding and arriving in Vietnam. The good news is Vietnam has one of the most inclusive e-visa systems in the world. Open to all nationalities, you can apply online, choose between single entry or multiple entry and stay up to 90 days. But don't assume it's foolproof. That's really the basis of this show. If your name, date of birth or passport number on your application doesn't match your passport, the airline staff will stop you at check-in. And believe me, they won't let you board. We need together to stop that, to not let that happen. So in today's episode, I'm going to break it down. What an e-visa really is, when to apply, common pitfalls and mistakes, what documents you'll need ready and how to track and fix things if they go wrong. Think of this as your personal travel checklist straight from someone who's been there many times with hundreds of travelers just like you. And oh, by the way, if you've got any of your own e-visa stories, maybe a funny stuff up or a hack or something that saved the day, please share it with me. I love bringing real stories into the show and I would gladly share it with the audience if you'd like to share it with me. All right, let's get started. First up, what exactly is an e-visa? Who needs it? And why is this PDF really that can make or break your whole Vietnam adventure so important? Let's go. Firstly, let's get to the crunch and try and decipher just who needs a visa in the first place. As 2025 has announced new visa free country exemptions . So you need to know about those because, you know, whilst I'm going to be focusing a lot on the e-visa process in this show, you may not even need one. So, let's be clear that there is, you know, now there's 29 countries in total that are exempt. And that means that you can travel to Vietnam for 45 days without any visa, without any fee and without any application. So, I'm going to put a link in the show notes and this is the government link. It's not going to send you to agencies or off to places where, you know, you're going to feel unsure or not quite confident that it's credible. This is the visa page that explains it all and it is straight from immigration in Vietnam. So, establish first whether you fit into the category of a visa-free exemption country. And on that basis, you are allowed to travel to the country for 45 days. Like, how good is that? And in addition, you can jump out of the country to go and visit Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia, anywhere you like and then hop back in and As you hop back in, as long as you have proof by your ticket that you are only going to stay another 45 days maximum, it all restarts. So I really stress for everyone before jumping into any visa application that you check whether or not you're visa free. This new announcement came out, I think, around about March 25. But it's a big deal because it does give you that 45 days and a reset when you come back in. Now, just one little caveat with it, be mindful if immigration see that you're doing this a lot, like as in back to back entries, they're probably going to ask some questions. So, I'm just putting that out there that You know, visa-free country exemption access to the country is definitely available and you should use it. But for those who are using it for other reasons and extensions to stay, You know, back to back may cause you some issues at some point. You've heard of people talk about doing visa runs. This might fall into that. And that may be just getting you out of the country, across into Thailand or across into Laos to be able to come back in and reset depending on your situation. But the basis of this podcast and what I want to do today is to take some of the issue out of the e-visa application and to ensure that people know what they're getting and what they're doing, what importance there is on each factor of the application, what the immigration officials are going to be looking for and how easy it is to get kind of denied or no answer or you can't kind of find out what is going on because the little tragedy with the eVisa application is getting feedback or getting, you know, someone to answer a question or whatever. I mean, it was built so that you didn't have to go to embassies and you didn't have to go to your consulate or whatever to do this, to get the eVisa. And it is a really simple, fantastic system. And I encourage you, if you fall into every other nationality, that isn't visa free and I fall into one of those, believe it, Australia is one of those, you definitely, the only way to get to Vietnam is to get an e-visa. It is the way to go. So I firstly want to cover off the e-visa has two options. One, a 30 day option, which is 25 US dollars, and that is single entry. I'm going to come back to that in a minute. The other is a 90 day option and it's 50 dollars, but it is multiple entry. Now, if you are planning on and you want to have a little bit of you know, fluidity around, you know, your decisions and what you want to do. And you might want to go to Angkor Wat or you might want to go to Thailand and then come back in. You know, you definitely have to get that multiple entry, even if it's not up to the total of 90 days. And we're going to talk about what preparation you need and things you need to avoid as far as pitfalls in the actual e-visa in a minute. But I just wanted to stress that the e-visa is for all other nationalities that do not fall into the category of a country that is exempt. Now, what is an e-visa? It's a digital visa linked to your passport. Get that kind of fixated in your head. It kind of makes sense because it's why they're so pedantic about the information matching up. So when you are side by side with your computer next to your passport, next to your ticket, Making sure that all of those things match up kind of makes sense and makes the digital version of it make sense. So let's get to it. Prep for the application for an e-visa. We've established you need one. So firstly, your passport has to have two free pages. I mean, if you've done heaps of travel, I'm so envious. But if you have and you don't have two free pages, then you need to get a new passport. Secondly, you need at least six months eligibility in the life of the passport. So let's tick those two boxes and say we've got those. Next, you're going to need to arrange two images on your phone or you're going to start on your phone and then you're going to kind of send them to your computer to upload them. But you need to get a passport photo in a PNG. Now, some people, including, you know, myself in the early days, tried to just take a photo of the photo in my passport of me, just the face. And cropped it, created it as a PNG. But for some reason when I tried to upload it, it just didn't like it. It was like there was a kind of a bug in the system. I've since asked some people in authority about it. They've kind of said that there might be a film or something over the top of the photo in the passport so that when you actually take the photo it picks that up and it doesn't like it. So the best way around that is to get another passport photo. You might have some spares left over like I have from years ago. And I literally just take a photo of that photo and I crop it to the size created as a PNG, not a PDF. It will not accept PDFs as a PNG or a JPEG. but a small size and I've never had any issues. It does not have to be the exact photo to match the one in the passport. They're not unrealistic about that. I understand that the life of a passport might be five, ten years. So you cannot expect that. But they do expect it to conform to the formalities that are required to do a passport photo. So that's your number one photo. The next one that they are happy to receive a photo of the passport as it is, is literally the main page of your passport. So take a photo, downsize it by cropping it to the right size, create it as a PNG. And literally you are then good to go alongside your ticket and also your first location that you're going to arrive into because it's going to ask for an address of where you're going to stay. And I mean, let's face it, you're probably going to stay in multiple locations. But just in case they need to contact you for any reasons, never known it to happen, but they want you to put down your first address. I commonly suggest to people that they put their first hotel or Airbnb or location of where the group is or whatever, but it needs to have an address and all the details that they ask for. I think even a phone number. I'm not quite sure. I can't remember. But so with that armour, you are ready, set, go to start your e-visa process. probably not a good idea to have a glass of wine or to do it late at night or when you're tired or when the kids are driving you crazy or whatever because you do need to concentrate. You do need to make sure everything syncs up. And that links back to what I said about the e-visa. It's a digital representation of your passport. So whatever names in your passport needs to go on that application, whatever dates are in your passport that it asks for, you need to match that up. So be careful of typos. Be careful of when you type something in, it kind of jumps or bumps. It's it does have a few bugs. So be aware birth date has to be correct. Country, sorry, location of entry and location of departure needs to be exact. And you have to arrive into that city and you have to depart. Otherwise, once again, it's going to say no go for you. You cannot exit or you cannot arrive. The other thing to be important about is your name, address details, your date of arrival. Your date is the date you are flying there. The date you are departing is the date you are leaving the country and catching that flight back. You need to make sure, as I said, it matches your ticket. So in the case that you have got a 30 day visa, you need to depart before the 30 days. You need to make sure that your departure matches your ticket as it is displayed to the check-in counter staff. So everything kind of just goes tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, and everything is fine. And really, once you've done that, you're good to go. Now, in the event that things don't go, there is workarounds. They're not cheap, they're expensive, and they take your ability to contact the right agency with the right information and the right ability, credibly, to be able to deal with immigration to get you some sort of VIP or a letter to enter and then apply as a VIP on the spot and things like that. You know, I kind of talked through on the show a couple of examples of that. And, you know, it's a tragedy when, you know, people are so excited and then they get to the airport and this kind of little mishap happens. And it's all just about a name or a date or a place or a hotel or just something really, really silly. It can even be that they thought that they were visa exempt and they're not. So, you know, I really stress that you really pay attention and really look at some of the details around applying because it's worth it. it's really worth it. It avoids having to do that, you know, change of plans, that cost of change, and finding someone credible to do that on the spot. Because, you know, you're upset, you're kind of put in a position where You're not sure what's going to happen and it can impact your whole first impression, I guess, of Vietnam. So we definitely don't want that to happen. And I'm hoping that by just following these steps and this process, that I'm going to eliminate this for you, that we can get you to Vietnam with an e-visa application Simply, easily and well done. Another thing is to not leave putting in your information and applying too late . Some people think that they're going to get this as a kind of an immediate turnaround, like a 24 or 48 turnaround. The average is about three to five days. So, if you can, give yourself the luxury of time and even give yourself the luxury that if there is any issue or they come back to you with a question that they're not happy with your answer, then you've got time to fix it. So I also ask all my clients to try and get it done, you know, a couple of weeks beforehand, even though it's only three to five days. It just means you've got it done, print it off. It's with your travel documents or you've saved it on your phone and you can kind of tick that box. But when you do get the PDF back after you've checked on the application process, You really do need to go line by line matching ticket, passport, and the visa. They all need to line up sweetly. So, I think we've covered off name, no typos, the photos, you know, date of entry, date of exit, address, city location of entry, city location of exit. One of the other things they ask about is if you've been to Vietnam before , you know, and sometimes people say, oh, gosh, I can't remember, you know, when I went. Very quick, easy way for you to find out when you went is actually to go to your passport. and you'll go into the book itself and it'll show you where they have put, sometimes it's been in a written format, of your last dates. So if you've done a couple of trips before you'll be able to go and see the exact dates and once again they're going to love that because it matches up exactly with their system and you've got a proof in your passport to say, you know, you came six months or two years ago or three years ago and you can put that in and know that it is exactly matching what's in your passport. I think these are the main things that people tend to get trapped with. They sound small and They are, but they are the things that are going to make that girl's face at the check-in counter look at you and go, oh no, we can't let you board because there's this error. So I'm hoping that just by giving you these tips and hints that we're going to make sure no stuff ups for you. I have to tell you, I have a very funny personal story to share on this. As in my husband and I traveled a couple of years ago and I left the job of him doing his e-visa application to him. And he said, yeah, yeah, yeah, got it covered. Yeah, you know, I've been hanging around you long enough to know what to do, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, didn't think a word about it, got on the plane, everything was fine. However, what he had done was put the incorrect date that we were departing. So he was departing two weeks earlier. earlier than me when he should have been departing with me. So what did we need to do with that? So one of the traps with this pitfall category of the e-visa is you cannot reapply while you're in country. You actually have to leave the country and apply externally. So, he had to fly to Singapore, actually spend the night in Singapore. So, he had to go through immigration and then I had to arrange for a VIP option which is expensive and that would allow him to just turn around the next day. Now he could have applied for another e-visa but working on the basis that that could have been three to five days in processing it would have kind of mucked up our plans totally. So we had to go through a different option with a company that has the means to be able to get this through immigration. And this allowed him to come back in the next day and get through immigration okay. And then we carried on. So, you can see there's workarounds, but they're not easy and they're not cheap. Another client of mine was trying to board in San Francisco. The husband and wife team that were traveling, the wife did not put the middle name in on her e-visa. They knocked them back to get on board. So we did a similar thing. However, we got an introductory letter through immigration where they would let entry into immigration into Ho Chi Minh City on the basis that when they got there, they would apply again through a VIP channel. It's not something that you should consider as a roadblock to come to Vietnam. You know, every time I go, I think, yeah, I just need to get that e-visa knocked over and make sure that that's totally correct in my planning. It's one of the things I do stress to everybody. Just get it done. Allow yourself plenty of time and all is good. So there you have it. Vietnam's visa rules in 2025. It might sound a bit complicated at first, but once you know which category you fall in, it's really about being thorough, double checking your documents and planning ahead. The last thing any of us want is to see a dream trip delayed or worse because of a small detail that could have been caught earlier. I like to think of these as not as red tape, but as the gateway to an amazing experience. Once you've cleared that little hurdle, the whole of Vietnam is yours to explore from its bustling cities to its quiet villages, its world class food and its warm and welcoming people. And trust me, it's worth every bit of effort to get here. If all of this still feels a little overwhelming, don't worry . That's exactly why I created What About Vietnam travel services to take the guesswork out of planning. My team and I can help with every aspect of your trip from a visa guidance and fast track airport services to curated itineraries that bring Vietnam to life. in the way that suits you best and according to your budget. If you like that extra peace of mind, just reach out. I'd love to help. The fast track service has just come into vogue in in such an easy format now. So if that's something that you'd be interested in, likewise, please get in touch as I can arrange that and at a fair and reasonable price. Thank you for joining me today. I hope this episode leaves you better prepared and more excited than ever to start your journey. And when you finally touch down in Vietnam, I promise you'll know it was worth it. Until next time, I'm Kerry and this is the What About Vietnam podcast. Safe travels, everyone.

81fddd7d-8d67-497b-8500-29c80f9e6466Leaving a positive footprint through social enterprise Jimmy Pham on leaving a positive tourism footprint through social enterprise Episode 7 S3-07 Positive tourism 00:00 / 38:52 In today's episode, we are going to be talking about responsible tourism, impactful tourism, and social enterprise in Vietnam. To open our eyes and our hearts to social enterprise there is no one better equipped to do so, than my guest today Jimmy Pham. Jimmy Pham’s name is synonymous with social enterprise In Vietnam. As the founder of the KOTO organisation, Know One, Teach One, 23 years ago. Jimmy will tell us how one trip back to Vietnam changed his life. As a Vietnamese Australian, Jimmy will share with us how social enterprise businesses are influencing change, and breaking the poverty cycle of millions in Vietnam. As a traveller we get the chance to be part of that positive change. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

420eb988-0e37-4d4d-b111-0c95c2f050f7Fast becoming a major draw card for adventure seekers. Vietnam's Phong Nha Caves - in depth Episode 22 S3-22 Phong Nha Caves in depth 00:00 / 58:17 Phong Nha as a location, is fast becoming the major draw card to Vietnam for adventure seekers. If its magical scenery and surprisingly clean and green flourishing forests you are seeking, then you will want to give some serious thought to Phong Nha caves. It has been said, passing through the different caves, that the stunning landscapes will make you believe the myths about fairies, and magical kingdoms, while the magnificent scenery will continue to enchant you. And let's not forget the enormity of some of them. Some are big enough to fit skyscrapers in. My guest on the show, is Howard Limbert. Howard has been caving for 32 years and was part of the leadership team which discovered Son Doong, in 2009. Just in case you didn't know, this cave is now touted as the largest cave on the planet. I was fortunate to catch up with Howard and he has a great way of describing the caves in such a way that you feel you are already there. OR, it is something you'd love to experience. There are literally hundreds of caves and a tour variety for all types of explorers. This show covers the main Oxalis run tours, that operate over 1,2,3 and 4 days. It covers EVERYTHING you need to know to make a smart choice for you and your group. Photos by OxalisAdventures.com. Click on the link to the right to see the Oxalis video. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S4-20 Life changer for singer songwiter What About Vietnam – S4- E20 Hoi An – A life changing experience for a singer songwriter Kerry Newsome: [00:00:35] Xin Chau and welcome to What about Vietnam? If this is your first listen to the show, I'm very excited to have you on board for lots of fun travel stories with my guests. If you're a regular listener and you follow the show through your favorite channel and our social pages, thank you for being a supporter and please feel free to reach out anytime if you've got any questions. The website's got a stack of information, but I'm acutely aware that, you know, we're all unique, and sometimes just one answer doesn't fit all situations. Plus, I just love hearing from you, so please reach out if you've got some ideas for the show or there's a particular subject you'd like us to cover. Now, the show today is coming directly from Vietnam, as I've been traveling about, and just checking out some new places, testing stuff for our travel services and for the Girls Getaway coming up in September. I am truly excited. Vietnam is really rocking at the moment and I'm here in March, so it's just a beautiful time of the year. However, back to the show. We've got a wonderful show planned today because it's a little bit thought provoking in the sense we explore Vietnam and the high hopes of a young traveller who, through his love of adventure and music, found himself falling in love with the country and its people. Kerry Newsome: [00:02:08] Now, I know from me you've heard that all before. But what I think you're going to hear from my guest, Luke Webster, is a little bit unique in the sense it involves the profound effect travel can have on a person and where that adventure can unknowingly take you. Luke talks about his travels and how he found himself enjoying the pace, a pace he describes as having your foot off the gas instead of on it all the time. He comes from obviously a city in the UK. He comes from a very busy lifestyle. So he kind of recognized this very early in the piece. He says he warmed easily to the happy, smiling people and welcoming feelings of home and family. He describes also that sensory overload that hit him when he first arrived and the beauty and serendipitous happenings that steered him to develop his craft. So while the world was in COVID, Luke was using his skills as a singer, songwriter and English music teacher to further his stays in Vietnam. After exploring the North Hanoi and Cat Bar, he describes falling in love all over again in Hoi An The vibe of this old town or country town, as he calls it, including the beach area of Ung Bang began to open doors to him, and those doors allowed him to perform regularly and craft his own style and repertoire of music to an ever increasing local following. Kerry Newsome: [00:03:51] I met Luke on my first trip back after COVID. And he kind of immediately struck me as a person who had caught the love bug of Hoi An. Luke has written and recorded an album of his original music in Hawaiian with his band called The Langurs, and he hopes to have that released in April this year. And you can be sure I'm going to have links to that as soon as it comes up and I'll share those with you. Luke speaks to all of us who recognize the value of travel, and especially to places where the culture is foreign to us. While it may seem a stretch at the time, he talks about how traveling and working things out as you go develops you as a person and I couldn't agree more. And just how it broadens your mind to think outside the box. Sometimes we get stuck in our own ways, and that creative muscle in our brain doesn't get flex that often, but certainly in a country with such a diverse range of experiences, I think you're going to find you're going to experience things you've never done before, and that's all going to be good for you. Now, without further ado, let's just welcome Luke to the show. Kerry Newsome: [00:05:13] Oh, oh, just just one quick one….let me jump in here with a little announcement again about our Girls Getaway . This is one definitely for the ladies. It kicks off 7th to 17th of September this year. Kelley McCarthy is the host of the tour. We've done some of that extra testing, I think I mentioned earlier, and we're really excited. Like when we put this together, we kind of thought, we've got something really unique here. It's going to give you three very different, unique experiences in Vietnam. You're going to experience a vibrant city, the city of Saigon. We're going to take you then to the old 16th century town of Hoi An and then we're going to flip you over to a beautiful luxurious island to finish off the tour. It is an extremely bespoke tour, really well thought out. I'm hoping maybe going to tell us about that later. But definitely, you know, make some inquiries, ask us some questions. If there's something, you know, holding you back or you're not quite sure about, please get in touch. Kelly and I are more than happy to answer any questions, as we'd love to have you on board. Anyway, without further ado, let's get back to the show and say hello to Luke Webster. It's great to have you on the show. Luke Webster: [00:06:50] Thank you very much for having me. I'm very excited to do my first ever podcast. Kerry Newsome: [00:06:55] Oh, that. Oh, that makes me feel special. Fantastic. Look, for everyone listening, I'm a little bit of a fan of Luke's, actually. I got to hear him play at a gig in Hoi an in my last visit in September, and I just knew when he was doing some intros to his songs, some that he's written and some of the covers that he played. I just knew that Vietnam had got to him. So it's great to have him on the show, and I think we're going to focus on one particular place in Vietnam that I think has won his heart. Luke, do you want to tell us about that place that's sort of got under your skin a bit? Luke Webster: [00:07:42] Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'll give a very quick kind of backstory of how I ended up in Vietnam. So I was I just finished university and I went off to do Camp America for the summer because my friend was doing it. And from there I met some people and we went and did a ski season in the south of France and I ended up doing this after graduating for a couple of years doing America in the Summer and ski seasons in the winter. And I'd finished my third Camp America, and I knew I wanted to go to Asia, but I didn't know where I wanted to go. And everyone had said like Thailand was like amazing. And Cambodia had rich history. But Vietnam I fell in love with. They always kept coming back to the fact that they had fallen in love with Vietnam. It was amazing. It was the best place on earth. So one day I came back from work and I just booked a one way ticket to Hanoi on New Year's New Year's Eve. So I went out there right at the start of 2020, arrived in Hanoi, traveled from the north to the south, met amazing people, immediately fell in love with the place, the culture, the the pace of life, the slow down of the pace of life. Luke Webster: [00:09:00] But then there was this one place that I went to called Hoi an, which is right in the middle of Vietnam, right below Danang, which is the big major central city. And when I went there, I like I'd already fallen in love with Vietnam, but then I like fell in love again with this particular place. And I, I still can't quite explain why. I almost feel like you need to go there to understand, but I don't know whether it's because it's right next to the beach and it has this beautiful pristine beach or the fact that it's in the rice fields and it's got this very country. I'm from a country town back in England, so immediately when I got there, it felt very homely to me. And yeah, I just I almost didn't continue my travels because I planned to go down to Saigon and see the rest of it, and I almost was just going to throw it away and say, Hoi An is like this. I've already found where I want to be, but I continue to go. Went to Saigon. That was fun and then just flew straight back to Vietnam and um, and then, yeah, just stayed there. Kerry Newsome: [00:10:10] And, you know, the way you speak about Hoi an is very typical of a lot of people, strangely enough. I know for myself, my first visit was back in 2007 and then I didn't go back again really to spend any serious time until 2014. But from then on, I was hooked. I was just, as you say, caught up in the ambiance of the place. And it's very hard, as you say, to describe. It's got a certain vibe about it. It's got a certain energy. Would you agree energy to it? And yeah, it's got kind of two scenes going on. There's definitely the beach scene, so that's out at An Bang. And then when you go into the old town, that's another kind of scene. But the both seem to just meld together so beautifully and come together, uh, and, and operate, even though they operate in kind of different spheres because the beach is kind of a little bit more touristy. Oh, I guess parts of parts of the old town is as well. But I think from a person looking in to Vietnam, Hoi an kind of has to stand out on its own separate from all of the other cities because it's just that unique look. Now I wanted to just maybe touch on some of the first impressions that you had. Now, you know, you've just come out of a Camp America season and a ski season in France to get hit with, you know, Asia and Vietnam and every every smell, every sound and everything that that comes with. What were some of the first impressions that you had like immediately? Luke Webster: [00:12:24] I would say at the start. I was just everywhere I was going. I mean, I arrived in Hanoi, so I got on a bus, went into Hanoi, and it was it was 5:00 in the morning on New Year's Day. So I arrived there right when everyone had been partying all night. And everyone was probably, I don't know, very intoxicated. And I got there and I was just it kind of it kind of hit me all at once. Like I got off and there was just smells and sounds. It was like sensory overload. And I just couldn't I just was looking around and I couldn't stop smiling because I'd been kind of dreaming about doing this Asia trip for a while. And I was just walking around and my eyes couldn't stop looking around at, you know, like all the street vendors and the people on the bikes and people asking me, you know, where are you going? Where where do you want to go? Trying to get me to, you know, buy food and and it was just the word I would use is colorful. Like it was very colorful. Like the the sounds were colorful, the smells were colorful, the sights were colorful. Um, and everywhere I went, it that continued. Like, I went straight from Hanoi after three days to capture in the north, which is, you know, Halong Bay, the big mountains coming out of the of the water. And I went to Cat Ba and it was a different vibe. It was a lot calmer. Um, there were, you know, beaches and everyone was a lot more relaxed than Hanoi. I needed it after three days in Hanoi, but it was exactly the same. People were relaxed and everyone was just chill. Everyone. It was like taking your foot off the gas. Everyone had taken their foot off the gas from wherever they'd come from. Kerry Newsome: [00:14:21] Did you feel welcomed? Did you feel, like, comfortable and welcome and did you feel like you could fit in and get around easy or, you know, did you because you go to some countries and you know, you can feel that estranged feeling. I've never got that in Vietnam. But, you know, I'm just keen to see for you whether you felt like I you know, I feel really welcome here. The people feel friendly and open. Luke Webster: [00:14:51] Yeah. I never felt like, um. I guess when you land in a country, a lot of the times people are trying to hustle you and make money from you because you know you're a tourist. But I never. I never really felt that from the start. Like, everywhere I went, I always felt like I was from the get go, getting, you know, like local prices on food and. And another thing is just people were smiling like the Vietnamese people. Just they love to smile Everywhere I went. They would especially the women, they they look at you and they just give you a big smile. And yeah, I don't know. With Vietnamese women, especially the older women, I feel I always feel like all all of them are are like are like my mum. Like when I go for food or anywhere, they're always like, Come on, eat up growing boy. And you know, they'll give me more or whatever. And it's, yeah, I just sunk into it straight away. It was very open and welcoming. Kerry Newsome: [00:15:46] I would say. Yes. And I think you're right. I one of the things that I enjoy about the Vietnamese and yeah, probably more so with the women is, is their child like attitude. They're kind of light and breezy. They don't trudge around even though they live in, you know, some kind of simple ways. They all are always smiling and light and bright and optimistic and fun loving and childlike. And, you know, I swear to God, I lose ten years when I'm over there just because they bring that out in me. You know, I think, oh, I can do anything in Vietnam because there isn't that ageism as much, I don't think. But yeah, I always feel very welcome. I think the people are very gracious. I think they're very open and welcoming and friendly. They don't seem to have any, uh, ways about them that is going to make things awkward. They kind of go out of their way to bring you in and to, you know, make you feel like part of their family. Or even if you go to a restaurant or automatically you can feel like you're part of that family who owns that restaurant within minutes, you know, you sit down on a little red chair and all of a sudden you've got a kid or a dog or somebody coming up to you and you just don't get that in Western society. You just that's that that's gone. That that kind of that feeling. So, as you say, it is really hard to explain to people what it's like. But we're going to give it a we're going to give it a shot in this show, Luke We're really going to try and dig deep, okay? So you've chosen an as pretty much your your main stay place. Is this to do with you doing some gigs there as well? Like did the did the music scene or the, the opportunity to do gigs there for music? Was that, you know, another allure of Hoi An. Luke Webster: [00:17:55] Yeah, definitely. Like I knew I wanted to try and play music when I came to Vietnam and Hoi An it's a very touristy destination and there's lots of bars that do live music there. Um, and the benefit is you also have Danang, which is the, the main city, which is only 30 minutes north. So you've almost got two bases in order, you know, in which to play music in. So actually, when I got there, I tell you another small story, which is quite important too, you know, like my musical endeavors in Vietnam, when I was in the North in Cat Ba, I was at an open mic and I ran into an Israeli fella, Nethanel his name is Netanel Sabag, and he was hosting this open mic. And I went up and I introduced myself and I said, Can I play some songs with you? And he said, Yeah, sure. You know, go ahead and we ended up playing all night. We had the best time. And we really hit off. And I ended up spending the week with him at this bar hosting these open mics. And we became friends very quickly and we went our separate ways. Luke Webster: [00:19:09] And when I went back to Hoi An after going to Saigon, he was also there by chance, and I met him on the beach and I said, Oh, nice, you know, nice to see you again. And we started hanging out and playing music together and writing music together. And very quickly we kind of were like, Let's make a band. Let's form a band together. And we started as a two piece, and at the start we would go to all the bars in Hoi an In the Old Town. This was before COVID and it would be very, very, very busy. And a lot of the bars would say, you know, you need to have played here for two years. You need, you know, experience. And so a lot of the bars wouldn't take us. And for a while, we just we weren't having any luck. And we ended up going to this bar called Bungalow Beach Bar and meeting this wonderful American couple, Rhonda and William. And we went in and we said, Can we play? And they said, Of course you want to come and play tomorrow. And we were like, Uh. Kerry Newsome: [00:20:16] Sure, why not? Luke Webster: [00:20:18] We were like, you know, Yes, absolutely. So we went in and played and we had a great time. And, you know, people seemed to like us and they said, Do you want to come and play tomorrow night? And we were like, okay. Kerry Newsome: [00:20:31] Yeah. Like there isn't kind of like any contracts coming out or, you know, serious conversations about, you know, payment and timing and how long will you be here? It's just so casual. It's hard to imagine. I know. Luke Webster: [00:20:46] Yeah, Yeah. It was almost like they were going to be like, you know, like play, a song for us now, you know, win us over. And we'd be like, Oh, okay, okay. Um, but yeah, that was and that was the only bar at the start that would kind of have us. And we, we would play there three, four nights a week. And that was when we, me and Nethanel, we started to kind of learn our craft like how to be because before we would, I don't know, we were boys who would play in our room and stuff and we'd never played for an audience. So we definitely crafted ourselves in that particular bar. You know, we would learn to, you know, mic up everything and do the sound and make a set list that was, you know, had highs and lows and interact with the audience. But yeah, as you say, it's it was very it's a very easy place if you find the right place that wants to have you to, you know, get a gig, there's there's not really any contracts. You just kind of rock up, play, they pay and then you kind of go on your way. Kerry Newsome: [00:21:47] And if you come back again, you knock on the door again and you see how you know things are traveling and if things are traveling okay, and you know, there's room for you, then you know, you can come back in. That is just that is that is the standard rule of thumb in Hoi An. So when I saw you when because I knew some other people in Hoi An and they said, oh, there's this really great guy called Luke Webster, he's playing at the Bungalow Bar, I think you should definitely aim for that. I think you were starting at 730 or 8:00 or something and I said, Oh, right, you know, it was a new name. I didn't know of you from previous trips. And you've got to remember, this was my first trip coming back after COVID. So I know you were, for want of a better term, stuck there during COVID. Well, you know, I was stuck in Australia not being able to get back. So, you know, I was keen to just see if Hoi an and An Bang had kind of come back from that from COVID and you know, I'd heard. Lots of stories where a lot of places had gone to the wall. And, you know, what was comforting was to go back and, you know, hear great sounds like you playing in bars, get that good feeling. And I thought, its come back. It's definitely on the road. Everyone is optimistic about foreign tourism coming back so. Yeah all good. I wanted to ask you a question. It's a little bit of a touchy feely question, for want of a better word. But because you write music about touchy feely things, I think you'll be able to relate to it. But would you say that Vietnam has changed you in any way? Yes. Yes. Luke Webster: [00:23:49] Yeah, definitely. I would just having a little think. Kerry Newsome: [00:23:56] I kind of got from your bio was the fact that you believe that travel does change you and that travel is something that everybody should be required to do to help develop themselves as people develop their appreciation of the world and to better understand themselves. So I guess from that I was keen to know just how Vietnam had impacted you from that perspective. Luke Webster: [00:24:30] Yeah, I would say it. It just opened my mind for a start. As soon as I got there, the culture was so different and the feeling was so different from where I was living or where I had been living for, you know, 23 years of my life back in England. Exactly. And, you know, it's almost like another great thing about Hoi an especially is it's this melting pot of cultures. There are so many different people from, you know, like from France, South Africa, Israel, America. So there's so many different cultures mixing that there's you're never lost for things to do. There's people teaching different things about their, you know, their cultures. And so when you travel, I feel like your mind opens up and you become very receptive for taking everything in and learning from people and the conversations you have. And because you're traveling, it's almost like a natural thing to. You want to be open and you become more talkative because it's like being in the playground again on your first day of school. You don't know anyone and you want to talk to people and make friends. And so you'll be in a bar and you'll see someone and they'll look at you and you'll be alone. And you just say, Hi, my name is Luke. And they say hi. And you say, Where are you from? And then the next minute they say, I'm going to Cat Ba tomorrow with some friends. Do you want to come? And you're like, Yeah, I've got no plans. Great. Kerry Newsome: [00:26:13] And that's how I met people also in Hoi an. When you're not gigging. And obviously I know that is your number one fun thing to do. What else do you love doing in Hoi An? Luke Webster: [00:26:33] I've got to say, going to the beach? Yeah, it's. Kerry Newsome: [00:26:35] That's got to be the first one. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's really lovely. Beach. Yeah. Luke Webster: [00:26:40] It's a really lovely beach. As long as you don't go now, as long as you don't go during, you know, October. Luke Webster: [00:26:50] Or rainy season. Yeah. Mid mid-December. Yeah. Kerry Newsome: [00:26:52] No, no, no, definitely not. No, definitely. So that's good to mention. Luke Webster: [00:26:57] So yeah, obviously in Hoi An throughout the nine months of the year, it's beautiful, hot sunshine. You get a bit of coolness for the spring in kind of February time. But then, yeah, September through maybe to December, they have the rainy season and it it's like, you know, in Forrest Gump when he says it started raining and it didn't stop raining for four months. It's true. Kerry Newsome: [00:27:21] It is true. And once again, like, like I, I managed to get September in. I always can manage to get a pretty good September in Hoi An, but as soon as it kicks over into October it's gone. Yeah you're right very big droplets of rain and the ocean goes crazy with waves and you know, everything at the beach. The beach just gets smashed. When you spend most of your time there, do you choose to like, do you live in a homestay or do you kind of rent a place? Or how do you how do you like to kind of accommodate yourself when you're in Hoi An and playing gigs and stuff. Luke Webster: [00:28:13] So yeah, I rent a place. It's very again, it's very easy to do. You know, most of the time you don't need a contract. You just, you look, you look on Facebook marketplace or whatever and you look for houses and you find a house and it's got the price. And you go and you say, you know, I want to rent the house. And a lot of the time they'll be like, Great, can I have a deposit? You give them the deposit and you can move in the next day. Kerry Newsome: [00:28:41] And they'll help you. Move in sometimes. Luke Webster: [00:28:43] Yeah, they'll help you move in, they'll bring you food, they'll bring you fruit. A lot of the landlords, they're super kind, super accommodating. You know, they'll just. They'll do things. They'll come and garden for you if you, you know, if you want them to. Um, but yeah, it's and there's so many beautiful spots in hoi an that's the, that's the nice thing about living there. You can live in the town and it feels very kind of townie town like and halfway between the town and the beach you got the beautiful rice fields so you can have a house that literally looks onto the rice fields and you get the, you know, the sunset in the evening and the sunrise. And then if you want to, you can literally live like on the beach. Yeah. So, you know, you you wake up in the morning and you're tired and you come out of bed and you can literally just zombie walk yourself through the sand down to the beach, two minutes down and you just jump into the sea and that just wakes you. That's the best way to wake up. Kerry Newsome: [00:29:43] It is. And you don't have to navigate a serious car park or there isn't like cordoned off areas where. Kerry Newsome: [00:29:51] There's full access and it's all free. So, you know, these are kind of the little things that people don't take into consideration with the beach itself. So tell us, if you were to talk to your friends and family and about Hoi An and about Vietnam, what are the key things that you want them to know or things that you know they should be aware of if they come? Luke Webster: [00:30:20] In terms of like for them, as for them as tourists or things for them to kind of see. Kerry Newsome: [00:30:26] In terms of them being a Westerner and maybe finding a. Some aspects of Asian culture. Vietnamese culture that, you know, would be a challenge for them. Like not all Westerners gravitate to Vietnam and go, Oh, that was all great. Some of them find some of the history challenging, Some of, you know, there's not paved roads everywhere. There's not paved pathways everywhere. There's wires hanging from trees. And, you know, that's the wifi system over there. It just wraps around that, that kind of bush over there. That's, how you get free wifi. And it's kind of like I cannot believe that? So it's just some of those things, the motorbikes, you know. Luke Webster: [00:31:22] Be prepared to be out of your comfort zone in any kind of given situation, whether that be, you know, you're on the toilet and you see cockroaches, you know, scuttling around or uh, yeah, you're in the shower and, you know, you don't get that nice, you know, constant warm shower pressure that you've got in your nice shower in England, you know, like, uh, and then, yes, the first and foremost, don't take, don't take things personally when you're on a bike, like everyone is not out to kill you, but you will feel like that sometimes. Kerry Newsome: [00:32:05] And of course, let's not forget the karaoke. Luke Webster: [00:32:10] Oh, God. Kerry Newsome: [00:32:12] Now you have to talk about the karaoke from someone who is a singer. You certainly have to speak to that. Luke Webster: [00:32:21] Okay. So yeah, that's a massive part of their culture is they sing. They sing like daytime karaoke. It usually happens on a Monday. I think Monday is like their day off. They sit around tables, drink, really. Laru, which is like the cheapest Vietnamese beer. And they'll all sit around the tables, get this massive karaoke machine, like, huge, huge speaker. And they'll have Vietnamese songs playing and they'll sing these Vietnamese songs, but they'll they'll sing it like they're trying to destroy your eardrums. Like they'll sing it into the mic super loudly and it will just be this blaring noise that you kind of hear in the distance. And, you know, sometimes you wake up and you you'll hear it at 8 a.m. and you're like, Oh, no, it's karaoke day. Kerry Newsome: [00:33:09] Have you been to a Vietnamese wedding? Luke Webster: [00:33:11] I have a couple. Kerry Newsome: [00:33:15] Have karaoke? Luke Webster: [00:33:17] Yeah, they. I was actually playing at the wedding, so I, I, you know, I did my bit. Kerry Newsome: [00:33:26] How great to have you there. Luke Webster: [00:33:31] Oh, my God. But it was, you know. I did my bit and then the karaoke came. Kerry Newsome: [00:33:36] On. You can't. You can't have a wedding without karaoke. It's just. Just just not done. Luke Webster: [00:33:39] You know, I put it in a bad light. But that's only because of where I've grown up and where what I'm used to. But when you when you see them doing it, they have a they have a great time. They do. It looks like a lot of and you can and you can go to karaoke bars and you can go with friends and you can you know, you can sing. I don't know your Abba and all your karaoke songs. It's just that they have a different way of doing it. They, you know, they get the boom box and the beers and they sit on the side of the road and. And yeah, it's just very. It's very loud and quite unsettling. Kerry Newsome: [00:34:16] Yeah. And if you tend to be near a venue like so sometimes people, you know, they've booked their hotel and the hotel's fabulous etcetera, but it just happens to be next door to a karaoke bar and before you know it, they're getting that that sound through their eardrums usually goes for a couple of hours at a time. And, you know, I've known people who have just been outraged, like just just cannot handle it and had to move hotels and all sorts of things. So I mention it because, you know, if you spend at least a couple of weeks or ten days in Hoi An, you're going to come across karaoke and if you don't come across karaoke, you're going to come across the Roosters. Have you had the Roosters wake you up? Luke Webster: [00:35:02] Yeah. so Nethanel my band mate he's gone back to Israel for a couple of months. Um, and I'm staying in his house and his house is like right in the middle of the rice fields and everything. And so, yeah, there's a rooster right next door and he does me the kind favor of waking me up at like 5 or 6 a.m. on most days, which is kind of nice because I'm not actually a morning riser, but now I have. I've been kind of forced to be. Kerry Newsome: [00:35:42] And how did you take to the food? Do you love Vietnamese food? Do you have you kind of got some special dishes that you like or. Luke Webster: [00:35:50] Yeah, absolutely. Hands down, it was I went back to England for three months this summer, and it was very saddening to, I say, saddening. It was I'm so accustomed to eating the Vietnamese food, which is, for the most part, very simple. They eat lots of rice, lots of vegetables, lots of broth and soup. And that's a very if you eat with a Vietnamese family, they'll have a big bowl of rice, maybe a chicken stew broth, and then they have Morning Glory, which is like a vegetable with garlic. And then they might have another some fried tofu for any vegetarians. Yeah, I like a good Khao Lao. You know, which is like the the local dish in Hawaiian. It's like a Hawaiian noodles. And then they have like a fir, which is Hanoi noodles, and then they have meichuan, which is another, you know, local. It's just awesome. The local. Yeah, the food is just amazing and it's so fresh and it's so cheap. Kerry Newsome: [00:36:51] So that was the next thing I was going to talk to you about. Like, how would you describe how much it is to, to holiday in Vietnam? Like, how much do you think it's expensive? Do you think it's hard to manage, you know, like between accommodation and getting around and food? Luke Webster: [00:37:12] I'd say it's really it's a very stress free place to go on holiday because you can you can have you can have whatever holiday experience you want. There are loads of resorts on the beach. So if you're a resort person and you want like an all inclusive package, then that is like available to you equally if you want. If you're someone who likes to find like a house with a pool and do your own thing and, you know, cook yourself, then there's loads of stunning, beautiful villas that are, I don't know, maybe a quarter or a fifth of the price that you would pay if you were going and staying in, I don't know, Barbados or so everything. It's it's affordable. It's very easy to get about if you need to if you need to get out on a bike, you go to a local place and you pay 40,000 Vietnamese dong, which is like a dollar and then you just get a bike for the day, you know? No, no paperwork, No, no, nothing. You just off you go. So it's, uh, I'd say it's stress free. Kerry Newsome: [00:38:15] Yeah. And that's a really good thing to say because, you know, part of what I try to do with this podcast is to, you know, do a bit of myth busting and kind of breaking down some perceptions that people have of Vietnam. And, you know, unfortunately for many, many years people only thought of Vietnam as the Vietnam War. And, you know, it's taken a long time to kind of move on from that because, you know, people have just got that stucked perception. But going back to Vietnam now and certainly post-COVID, you know, it's really coming back on. I think I got to spend some time also in Ho Chi Minh City. And, you know, after those serious lockdowns there, I was just amazed how quickly that they had, you know, pivoted and turned things around. It was it was almost like back as it was. And I was there in March 2020, just before the lockdown. I just got back into Australia in time. Being stuck in Vietnam couldn't have been too bad. For. You mean. You wouldn't have wanted. Kerry Newsome: [00:39:38] To go back to the UK in that period? Surely. Luke Webster: [00:39:42] Honestly, it's so funny. Everyone I talk to when I say I was in Vietnam for the COVID years, they kind of say, oh, you know, did you get stuck there? And I say, no, There was never a point that I couldn't get home. I could always there was always a way for me to get a plane ticket apart from a couple of times where we had really strict lockdowns and it was hard to get out. I could always get home, but I just I chose not to because I feel like in those COVID years. Vietnam locked down so early and straight away, and they nipped it in the bud so quickly that we we didn't have a lockdown until 21st June 2021. I don't think something like that. And so we just parted on. Luke Webster: [00:40:29] It was so…Bizarre. Like in the midst of this world crisis, I found my dream job playing music for a living. You know, I ended up recording an album of my original music, which was like a lifelong dream that I had. And we just we just partied through. We just partied through COVID. And we were watching the news of all this stuff happening. And we couldn't we couldn't literally believe what was happening to the world because the world that we were living in was so, so different. Um, and it was just a, that's why it's, that's why I wrote that song. So I think I might have played it for you when you came to the bar eight days a week. But I wrote that song Neverland and I wrote it when I was back in England. And I was thinking about Hoi An and the people, the people that were there during that time and, you know, this crazy thing that we went through. And yeah, I wrote it as kind of like a homage, I guess, to, the time. Yeah, a tribute. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. For the people that were there during the COVID years. Kerry Newsome: [00:41:37] So in finishing up, why don't you tell my listeners a little bit about your band, about your music, where they can find you and I'm sure everyone would love to, to hear your stuff. I know I loved it. So yeah, So let's tell everyone where they can find you. Luke Webster: [00:41:56] Sure. So at the moment we have we have a band that play in Vietnam and we do a lot of we got a four piece band as myself. Nethanel, Nicholas Davis, an insanely good drummer from where I'm from, Bristol, and Richard Burns. He's been living in Vietnam for quite a while, so we're called the Langer's band. That's l a n g u, r. s. People sometimes ask about the spelling. Kerry Newsome: [00:42:26] Is That the same as the monkeys? Like the Langur's? Luke Webster: [00:42:32] Yeah, Were thinking of a name for the band. Luke Webster: [00:42:35] Thought about. Yeah, the monkey band. Yeah, the. We're all a little bit crazy. Luke Webster: [00:42:40] But there's a in Cat Ba where me and Nat met. There's a very rare langur, and there's maybe 60 of them left. And we were thinking about the band and we were like, Oh, this, you know, finding each other is quite a rare thing. And we met in Cat Ba with this langur monkey, so we're going to call ourselves, you know, The langurs with Luke Webster Luke Webster: [00:42:58] The monkeys. So yeah, we're on Instagram and Facebook and then myself, I also play solo and that's when I play my original music. And if you are looking to listen to that music at the moment, it's only available on SoundCloud. So you type in my name, Luke Webster and I think thankfully there's quite a few Luke Webster's in the world as I'm learning. Luke Webster: [00:43:24] But yeah, but yeah, the, the album that I released, it's called The Road Less Traveled. Speaker5: [00:43:32] Yes, I read the book by Scott Peck Luke Webster: [00:43:33] It's essentially an album of the. Yeah, it's about an album of the last seven years of my life and traveling and what happens along the way and the ups and downs and, you know, the heartbreaks and the highs and lows. But my younger brother actually, he's a producer, a very talented producer. So very soon that album is going to be on Spotify and Apple Music and all the other streaming services. Luke Webster: [00:44:00] You. So yeah, you'll be able to listen to it. Kerry Newsome: [00:44:02] Yeah, I had a listen to some of your tracks on the SoundCloud and there's some really nice stuff there. Really nice stuff. I don't know enough about SoundCloud to share it. Can I like share the links of SoundCloud? Like I can put the soundcloud link is here. Luke Webster: [00:44:18] Yeah you can. Yeah. Whenever I whenever I finish a gig and people this is why I'm so excited to get my stuff on YouTube and Spotify because I mentioned SoundCloud and they're like, what? What is SoundCloud? And I, you know, I essentially say it's like Spotify, but you need, you know, it's essentially free for musicians It's almost like a the stepping stone platform you put it up and people are able to listen to it and then once everything is mastered and mixed beautifully, which my younger brother is doing a wonderful job of, it will then go to, you know, Spotify and it will be the final product. Right. Kerry Newsome: [00:44:51] Okay. Well, for everyone, I'll make sure I put the SoundCloud link and your Instagram and all of that stuff so everybody can track you down. And I know they'll be looking for the Langur's band when they come to Hoi. An So that's for sure. Look, I just want to say, Luke, thanks for coming on the show and just sharing with us your thoughts about Vietnam and Hoi an and I'm so glad you've had a good time there and I hope to see you again on my next visit to Vietnam. Luke Webster: [00:45:23] As I say, it was my first podcast and the time flew and I had a lot of fun. Kerry Newsome: [00:45:26] Excellent, Excellent. All right. Well, we'll be back in touch, but be safe. And I'll be seeing you soon. Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What about Vietnam? Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam. Please rate, review and send us your comments. 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S4-08 Travel Addict podswap The Travel Addict Show featuring Kerry Newsome Episode 8 S4-08 Travel Addict podswap 00:00 / 41:09 Today's program is about sharing another Podcasters show, which will give you a whole new perspective on travel as seen through the eyes of a different host, on a different show. In this scenario I am the guest. Our topic is, as you would guess- Travel In Vietnam post covid.
 Malcom Teasdale is the host of the Travel addict podcast where he talks to all kinds of people and explores travels all over the world. Malcom heralds from the UK, so hello to all my UK listeners, you might really relate to Malcom as while he has travelled to Vietnam previously and really enjoyed his stay, he and I had much to share in experiences and certain cities he enjoyed as in Hanoi, HCMC and Nha Trang. My thanks to Malcolm for asking me to come on the show.
 Please see below:- The Original show notes from Travel Addict program release in June 2022.
 Kerry Newsome has a travel and marketing background and has been traveling back and forth to Vietnam from Australia for the last 14 years. She has a genuine love of the country and the people and enjoys sharing traveler stories and insights with anyone who is interested. She loves to travel and experience new cultures and has become a Travel expert for westerners interested in traveling to Vietnam. Personally, I have been to Ho Chi Minh, Hanoi and Nha Trang, all of which are great destinations and have different personalities. For more about Malcolm and his shows check some of his other channels here:- https://www.malcolmjteasdale.com/podcast-episodes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-travel-addict/id1529802944 https://open.spotify.com/show/31sDaMn2zvtPOekza0y9OB https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xMjg4ODA4LnJzcw https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/3091275 Due to copyright factors transcripts for this episode are not available Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

6be74599-4c80-4018-9b47-90e4003ef720Know the best time to as a travel manager and “its important”. What About Vietnam - Series 1 - 2 When is the best time of year to travel to Vietnam? Xing Chau and Welcome to What About Vietnam. My name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host. You are listening to the everything you need to know before you go... series where I take you through the process of planning your trip to Vietnam. My aim is to pass on as much information as I can to ensure you have a great trip. In the first episode we covered off some of the factors influencing your decision to visit Vietnam through a better understanding of the food, the people and the experiences you can expect. I hope you found that interesting. Today we take you one step closer to getting you on your plane to Vietnam. As we discuss the “when” to go? This is probably one of the most common questions I get asked as a travel blogger. The reason being is….. “its important”. Its where you move into that commitment phase. And in the case of Vietnam, the timing of your trip is crucial to ensure you get the experience you want. Its not a “Once size fits all answer, as it depends on the experiences you want to have during your trip, as they can be drastically impacted by the “when you go”. So do give it due consideration, whether you are traveling solo, in a group, or as a couple or family... So I want to take you through 2 factors you need to consider :- 1. Festivals that can impact your trip 2. The weather across the North, Central and southern regions. Lets firstly cover off the fact, that Vietnam celebrates many festivals across the year. In fact,... I used to think they had a festival for everything. Then I learned that as a country they are such a grateful nation of people, full of history which they honour in pilgrimages and special events; all in the advent of thanks and praise. Some of the festivals are amazing, they attract wide audiences, and you would want to be there to witness them. See in my notes a link to at 14 of the most famous ones. But the biggest one of all is TET, and this has a monumental effect on your holiday stay. What is TET Vietnam? Not to be confused with the TET offensive. Tet as it is so often called, because its too difficult to say the Vietnamese name,... is by far the most significant holiday and season in the Vietnam Calender. It is the Vietnamese New Year, based on the Lunar calendar, …. It also marks the coming of Spring. It celebrates the “Feast of the very First Morning.” This will make more sense once you appreciate the importance of Vietnamese traditions. Who and what happens on the first day of the New Year can set the tone for the rest of year so it is a day to be treated with respect. TET – Dates TET takes place from the first day of the first month of the Lunar calendar (around late January or early February) So it varies from year to year. See in my episode notes a link to a calender for the next 5 years for TET. When you are checking on your dates, take note that TET is known to Vietnamese as NEW YEARS DAY, and the day prior being New Years Eve. I can’t stress enough the fact that TET is not just a day, it can consume up to 9 days. It becomes an attitude. Everything either happens before TET or after, but not much during. By that, no big decisions will be made during TET. It is mainly about paying respects and just about "being" with the people you love. I am not going to go…. into too much more... detail here, other than to say, it is a beautiful time of the year especially building up to TET. Flowers abound and the whole country goes into a mode of gift giving, house cleaning and preparations for New Year. As I have travelled many times to Vietnam including during TET, I would like to give you this advice: 1. Planning:- Buy your travel tickets for travel during the TET season well in advance ( 3 days before New Year and 3 days after). This is for internal travel mostly, as there is a lot of movement within the country as Vietnamese travel home in droves to visit family and friends. 2. Scheduling - Be early at the airport, bus station or train as this is the busiest travel period for Vietnamese who travel long distances to visit family and friends and carry lots of luggage. 3. Trip bookings confirmations- Make sure you bring all your travel documents confirming all your travel arrangements, tickets, and emergency contact details. Don’t be sloppy with paperwork, it just adds to your time in a queue and holds everyone up. Expect queues. 4. Activity - Don’t expect to do too much activity wise on the actual National Holidays as many tourist attractions will be closed or at a minimum their hours will be reduced, and they may even charge an extra TAX. Be prepared to just chill out! 5. Check with your hotel or Homestay about what services will be operating for meals and what are the closest alternative eateries open. Now lets look at how weather will impact your choice of dates to travel. Firstly, the country is divided into 3 main regions, · North/ Mountain areas · Central · South The North (Hanoi, Halong Bay) is monsoonal with hot and and humid weather from April to September, which is when most people will travel. They do have an extremely cool dry season from October to March. Where it is puffer jacket weather and freezing cold and wet. I have had... back luck... on trips in late March at Halong Bay where it rained heavy and we all sat on the top deck of the junk with blankets provided by the staff watching the rain drop like pellets on the deck of the boat. All the while sipping ginger tea to keep warm. October and November are the best months to visit since you avoid the domestic tourist flow and also experience a more comfortable temperature and humidity compared with other months. The mountain area in Northwest , ( Areas like Sapa, Mau Chau, Be Be Lake, etc) see little fluctuation in weather conditions. It is fairly cool all year round and a great place to escape the heat from cities. However, if you are a trekker you might want to consider the rainy season is from May to September. March /April is cool and ideal for outdoor exploration. At the extreme side of things you can see snow or flurry in December or January in Sapa . Ive seen it in February. February in Be be lake was freezing - but gorgeous all the same as we had caves and grottoes all to ourselves, and the lake was crystal clear. So it depends on the kind of experiences you are wanting to do. The Central Region (Hue, Da Nang and Hoi An) receives dry and hot Southwest wind which makes it strenuous for any brisk walk during the day. Closer to the beach, the level of severity reduces and the dry wind is replaced by cool ocean breeze. Because of the limited land area, central Vietnam is also most susceptible to natural disasters such as hurricanes or flooding. The paradox is, it is also where most of the beautiful beaches lie. Jan- early March certainly are the cooler months. Beaches may be too cold to swim in unless you are a real cold water swimmer. By April through to October the weather gets warmer as the months of the go on, with June, July, Aug being the hottest. For people wanting to do any adventuring, ie Marble Mountain, My Son, etc you will find handling the heat and humidity a challenge. I mention this about this region, as it is one of the most popular long stay areas, Hoi An and Hue are super popular and for many good reasons. ….but I have witnessed travellers in our groups suffer badly as the weather takes a toll on the body when doing any significant walking etc. I have also known people endure the floods, which can come unexpectedly but most probably during the monsoonal months of November/December. Its worth doing some homework on weather as it impacts your preferred style of travel. The South ( Ho Chi Minh City, Nha Trang, Mui Ne) is typically hot all year round with two main seasons: rainy and dry. It is also the most predictable region in terms of weather. Summer months from May to August might not be the best time to hit the road since most tourists destinations are packed with tourists and downpours happen quite frequently. For milder weather, where at least you can walk around comfortably, I would suggest February, March, April. In fact March April, across the whole of Vietnam is my favourite and most highly recommended time of the year to do almost anything. In terms of cruising and experiencing the Mekong delta, due to the heat and humidity aspect in the middle of the year, I would suggest looking at Feb March In the summer months (June- Aug) it can be hard going, where mosquitoes are rife, and the experience can be made difficult for children, the less fit and mature travellers. However, if you love the heat, keeping hydrated is key, “slip slop slap” sunscreen, and make sure you wear strong insect repellant. More on that in another Episode. I hope in this session I have been able to outline some of the key factors in considering your dates for travel as they truly can make it or break it. Please check with the Episode notes for the links mentioned and feel free to contact me anytime. I look forward to paving the way for you to have a magical time in Vietnam as I share more trip planning tips over future episodes ... ….stay tuned for more to come in the super 6 series, Whatabout Vietnam - before you book. Thanks for listening. Listing for all the festivals across Vietnam;- https://traveltriangle.com/blog/festivals-in-vietnam/

40fb91b1-df13-4a4f-959b-2016c5181459Pgu Quoc is a highly sought after destination Phu Quoc - An unbelievably scenic island paradise Episode 24 S3-24 Phu Quoc A scenic island paradise 00:00 / 41:32 Phu Quoc is the destination focus for the latest episode of the What About Vietnam podcast. An island blessed with white sand beaches, turquoise waters, swaying palm trees and an abundance of sunshine, all make Phu Quoc island a highly sought-after destination for beach lovers, and those looking for a short getaway from the craziness of HCMC. In fact, Phu Quoc which is the focus of our chat today with Patricia Marques is only a short 45 mins flight from HCMC, and is VISA free to visit. NOW. YES now, the borders to Vietnam are open. In this episode we discuss things like: The best time to go; Closeness to Cambodia; Water sports; What food is most common; Is it expensive?: Pepper farms; Fish Sauce; The famous Phu Quoc dogs; Is it worth going to downtown to eat out?; Accommodation choices and how the Island is configured so you can find what you want. Patricia Marques is my guest today, and I was lucky enough to catch her just after a recent trip to Phu Quoc. A trip that coincided with the news that Vietnam is now open to general tourists. So our chat is current as of March 2022. Patricia is the General Manager of Starbucks in Vietnam. Amid the myriad of things we talk about, you will soon discover that Phu Quoc makes an ideal destination for families, couples and solo travellers alike. It literally caters for many types of travellers with amazing waterfalls to visit and trekking in the jungle like National Park. To, diving, snorkelling and a Theme Park for kids, that would rival Disneyland, located in the north of the island. As a place to kick back and relax or take off into the wilderness, the island has it all, and given its location, it’s a seafood lover’s paradise. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S4-22 Trekking in Sapa A wide lens view A wide eyed lens view of trekking in Sapa Episode 22 S4-22 Trekking in Sapa A wide lens view 00:00 / 30:47 Experiencing local cultures authentically is an amazing experience that can be found in many places around the world. One such place is Sapa, a small town in Northern Vietnam. There are a variety of activities to do in the town, from trekking to visiting local villages. Trekking is a great way to explore the area and to get a better understanding of the local culture. The trekking routes vary from easy to difficult, so there is something for everyone. The trekking routes also offer a variety of stunning views, from the rice paddies to the mountains. Jack Taylor is my guest and he talks about his experience trekking in the region, and his interactions with the various hill tribes such as the Hmong, the Tay, and the Dao. In particular the Dao tribe which is who he does his 3 day trek with. His cinematography captures the beauty of the area, and he has great tips for those looking to go trekking in Sapa. It’s a great show for trekking enthusiasts and people looking for a very authentic close up view of the local people in their own habitat. Check out Jack Taylor’s YouTube videos here for a more visual overview of his experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSToRsNfb6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4kPFsRVuAM - the trek Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

f9b791be-473a-40c9-aff8-10fae46871a0Phil Hoolihan takes us beyond the tourist tracks Sapa North Vietnam - well beyond the tourist track Episode 15 Sapa North Vietnam - well beyond the tourist track 00:00 / 40:50 If you love trekking or want to embrace a more authentic experience of Vietnam you have to head to Sapa and North Vietnam. My guest today Phil Hoolihan gives us a very in-depth take on what the Sapa region offers from the well worn tourist tracks to the more authentic immersive type experiences you can get if you are prepared to dig a bit deeper. Phil Hoolihan is an academic who came to the region over 20 years ago on a science project studying biodiversity. Having settled into the region his knowledge of the area, local minority groups, cultural norms and tourism is extensive. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S5-E4 - Exploring the Case for living and working in Vietnam S5- E4 - Exploring the Case for Living and Working in Vietnam 00:01Kerry Newsome Xin chào and welcome to What About Vietnam? Becoming an expert and traveling and working abroad, I think most of us would appreciate can be a life-changing decision with numerous benefits and I guess some challenges along the way. I'm delighted today to be talking with Kate Boardman and we're going to explore the case for becoming an expat in Vietnam. Now, Kate's very qualified to speak on this topic, having lived in Vietnam twice for extensive periods of time. A little bit about Kate before we kick off. Kate's almost 36 years old, from a small town in Western Massachusetts. She's lived abroad in 10 different countries, including the US, Germany, France, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Bahrain, Australia, Bali and Guatemala for a total of 14 years. It's staggering to note she's traveled to 53 countries. Kate, as I mentioned, lived in Vietnam twice for two and a half years. six months in 2012 and two years in 2014 to 2016. She's traveled back to visit several times, most recently in November. She says in no uncertain terms, Vietnam is one of her favorite countries of all time. She's worked as a teacher at international schools and as a gap year instructor. She's now back home growing a dynamic travel content creation business under the name Wildcat Wanders. Links to that and for you to contact her directly will be provided in the show notes. As one of the aspects of coming on this show, she really hopes to inspire others to live, study, work and travel overseas. Kate, it's a delight to have you on the show. And I look forward to chatting with you. Welcome to What About Vietnam 02:05Kate Boardman Thank you so much, Kerry, for having me. I'm delighted to be here. This is really exciting. 02:10Kerry Newsome You know, Kate, I'm sure my listeners are keen to know just what makes Vietnam a good choice for an extended working stay. So let's start there. 02:22Kate Boardman So I'm actually hesitant to recommend Vietnam so much for fear of over-tourism, because it's really such a special and unique place. And I just hope that what I've seen in other countries around the world where over-tourism has become a thing won't happen to Vietnam because it is so unique. But at the same time, it's one of the most amazing places that I've been. And I also feel that everyone should see it. So it's kind of this I don't know how much to recommend it but there are so many amazing things and I think For me, what stands out the most about it is that there's no place like it, especially in Southeast Asia. A lot of the countries, of course, they have their own personalities and aspects that make them amazing. But a lot of them can be a little bit same, same, but different as the saying in Southeast Asia goes. But Vietnam is truly its own place. And I think what makes it so special is the people. They're super friendly, but also ruthless, and they know what they want and how they want it. And they're very direct. Obviously, culturally, the country has been through a lot, a lot of wars, a lot of situations in the past. And so they kind of just do what they want and say what they want. And I really admire that about the people. I think what also makes it special is that life really takes place on the streets. And so you're just surrounded by this fascinating culture and vibrancy all the time. You look outside and there's the ladies with the conical hats and their matching pajamas and the honking of the motorbikes and all of the smells from the food and this organized chaos of the motorbikes and traffic. So it's just, you can't escape it. So when you're traveling there, you just really feel that you're somewhere different. The food is amazing, you know, both local food and Western food. I've got loads of friends who have lived there long term from other countries and they've opened up restaurants that have been really successful with really delicious Western food for an affordable price. And then obviously, you know, you can eat for two to three dollars a delicious bowl of pho or banh mi. And there's so many amazing types of food that change with each region of Vietnam that you visit, too. 04:46Kerry Newsome I think what fascinates me, which I think is in line with what you're saying, is that the street life is so dynamic in the sense that there is old and new residing alongside each other. As you say, conical hats next to you know, very well established buildings and fancy coffee shops and, you know, boutiques and things. But then, you know, a little bit further down the street, there's a little bit more of history that you can see still alive and well and happening. And the smells, for some people, Kate, I've got to say those smells are a little bit overwhelming. And, you know, you've got to tune your nose. But I think you and I have both visited a fair few places in Southeast Asia, and I don't find Vietnam as bad as some others. So, maybe my nose is just tuned to it. But yeah, for some, I think it's a little bit overwhelming. And then, of course, there's the motorbikes. which I think everybody gets a little bit overwhelmed by and a little bit taken back by how to cross the streets and all of that kind of stuff gets talked about and people become quite nervous about it. So, talk to us a little bit about that frenetic life. I mean, you've spent most of your time, as I understand, I think in Hanoi? 06:19Kate Boardman Yeah, so I lived there for two and a half years. I've travelled the country from top to bottom. Obviously, there's so many places that I haven't been to explore yet, but I've been to all the main ones, you know, like Hoi An and Sapa and Saigon. But yeah, I think what makes Hanoi special as well is that there's this love-hate relationship. And like you said, the honking, the motorbike traffic, those are all things that are super frustrating. And it's funny because each day living there, you might die like five times a day just trying to cross the street or get yourself to work. You know, and people will always joke about that, but it's like if you can't beat them, join them. And so, having a motorbike as frustrating as it can be in the traffic is also one of the funniest things about living there and cruising around on your motorbike. amazing sense of freedom. And it's really fun once you kind of get to know the rules or lack thereof of the traffic. And, you know, if you want to go through a stoplight, you just got to beep. If you want to drive down a one-way street going the opposite way, you just got to beep. If you want to drive up on a sidewalk, you can, you just have to beep. And so it's kind of fun once you feel confident enough to do all of those things. .07:37Kerry Newsome Yeah, and then you can pull up right at the front door of the shop or the restaurant or the cafe or wherever and you can park your bike and get off your bike and either someone will kind of park it for you for, you know, a few dong or you can just, you know, put the pedal down and take your helmet off and off you go, you know. I haven't seen you know, as yet, the parking stations that absolutely take over my cities here in Australia, and I'm sure you're the same in the US. So, you know, those little nuances, those little differences, I think also keep that spark alive, keep that kind of difference alive, which is quite energizing in itself. Kate, I want to take you down the route now of talking about getting a job and doing some research and just looking at the option to have an extended stay in Vietnam and working in Vietnam. Talk to us a little bit about how that was for you. 08:47Kate Boardman So the first time I moved there was 2012. So things have obviously changed a lot since then. And for whoever's looking to move there, it would obviously be important to research the ever-changing visa laws and regulations. I know that they're making new changes and that those do change a lot. Oftentimes, depending on who you're going to be working for, if it's an international school or an organization, they would most likely sponsor your visa. So if that's not going to happen, you need to be aware of if you're going to need to be doing visa runs or anything like that. I went there having a job lined up. So that was a little bit easier because I knew exactly where I was going. So the first time that I moved there, I was teaching at a bilingual school. A lot of the expats that are there are teachers, most are working in language centers teaching English as a foreign language, but there are also international schools where you can teach, you know, whatever subject you would teach back home, but over there, which is what I did as well. you've just got to be careful with finding a reputable organization or school. I think the problem with Southeast Asia in general and even in the world is that education has become such a business and there's a lot of schools that are popping up, you know, with the buzzwords that are popular in education at the moment, whether that's Montessori or Reggio Emilia or Waldorf, but it's really just a business or a marketing buzzword to attract parents, but the school doesn't actually embody that concept. So you've got to be really careful with who you're working for and how they're conducting business. So there's a lot of Facebook groups for expats that are moving there, especially for teaching English to find out and to, you know, do a little bit of research, ask for feedback from other teachers who've worked there. So that's a great way to get insight. If you're working at international schools, there are websites like International School Review, where you can do a little bit of research ahead of time to make sure that the school is legit. So I definitely recommend doing your due diligence. and also making sure that you have the right qualifications to be able to work legally in the country and for those places. But now with the digital nomad kind of popularity happening, there's a lot of other ways that you could work and and live there. So if you are able to work, you know, from home on your laptop, then I think it's a great place to be able to go. And, you know, living in Hoi An by the beach is an amazing option, you know. So and I think that there's a lot of co-working spaces that are opening up to be able to provide the right kind of internet connection that you need. So I know that the whole expat scene is definitely going to be changing over the next few years of people being able to do more than just teaching or working for an embassy, which is kind of what the past was like. 11:44Kerry Newsome Yes, and I think it's a developing economy and I see a lot of trade and relationships between countries growing and certainly since things have changed with China. I think, you know, there's more opportunities in the industry sector and working with different chambers of commerce that I get the chance to do, I see a lot more of that. So, I totally agree with you. In fact, I've just done a podcast talking about becoming a digital nomad in Hoi An and talking to a guy who runs the hub in Hoi An, which As you say, if you're going to pick a nice place to set up your laptop and operate digitally for work, and that pays you a salary, well, all the better. So, as you say, I think since 2012, and because I also have a lot of contact with expats over there, the opportunities for jobs has increased, but doing your due diligence is absolutely imperative. There was a time there where there was a lot of people that were going there to retire, and they took up the majority of expat kind of locations and, you know, but COVID kind of unfortunately stripped a lot of those people out and it has become much stricter for people to get the right sponsorship and get things like, you know, a temporary residency card which they need to have for the certain benefits to live in the country. So, you know, as you say, there's a lot going on in that space and doing your research, talking to other expats and hearing from you, I know is going to really help. 13:45Kate Boardman Now they're being much more specific on the qualifications and certifications you need. You know, you should have a TEFL, potentially a college degree. So there's definitely, they're upping the calibre for teachers that they're allowing to teach their students. And I think that that's important because a lot goes into teaching. So you should kind of have a little bit of background if you're putting someone else's education in your hands. 14:10Kerry Newsome And it's a good point. And you're right. And I think there was a lot of opportunities for people that, yes, had good conversational English skills and could get away with it. But as you say, unless you've got a TEFL or you've got some kind of degree in, you know, dip ed or, you know, educational degree, you're just not going to make the grade now. So that's good. I'm glad you mentioned that. Kate, I want to take you down the path of just how it was for you and talking about just immersing yourself into Vietnamese day-to-day life as it is so very different from, you know, us Westerners and, you know, how we start and finish our days. So, can you talk to us a little bit about just, you know, was it easy for you to kind of immerse yourself in Vietnamese day-to-day life? 15:05Kate Boardman So I think the thing, the most important thing is, if you're an expat, you're always going to be a foreigner. And we kind of live in this in between place of never really ever fitting in again in our own home because we've seen the world and broadened our perspective in ways that people from home might not be able to really relate to. But then we're also never going to fully fit in in the culture where we're moving. We can do our best to learn the language and learn about the culture as much as we can and have as many local friends as we want. But I'm 5'11 and a tall, curvy white girl, so I'm clearly not going to blend in. to the streets of Hanoi. So you're always going to maybe get some inquisitive looks. A lot of the shopkeepers, I'd go into stores to look at clothes. 15:58Kerry Newsome I know what you're going to say. 16:01Kate Boardman Oh, yeah, the amount of times that they'll like, grab your arm and literally, like, shake it and be like, No, no, no, like, you too fat, you're too fat, like, and I'm like, No, but I wear a medium, like, I know that this is gonna fit me. And they would refuse to even let me try it on. And it would be like an H&M shirt that's immediate, you know, I buy this back home, I know it's gonna fit, no They won't let you. So you've got to have a bit of a thick skin to get by. And also, if you are single and you are past the age of 28, you are expired milk. So I would constantly get asked on a daily basis from my Vietnamese co-workers, are you married? Do you have a boyfriend? Why not? Like, what's wrong with you? And now like 10 years later, I'm still single. So they're really going to wonder what's wrong with me. But no, I think as far as immersing yourself, it's a really easy place to kind of get adjusted. You know, you can move there on a Monday and by the weekend have friends, a place to live, a motorbike. You know, I think the expat scene is extremely welcoming and the Vietnamese as well. So it takes Moving anywhere takes time to adjust. There's always that initial culture shock that you have to go through, figuring out where to buy things. And luckily, that has changed drastically in the 10 years. So in 2012, you know, finding contact solution, For example, you couldn't just go to the grocery store, which is where I would buy contact solution from back home, or the pharmacy. You had to go to Glasses Street in the old quarter to find the street that sells glasses, and then there was maybe one contact shop, and those contact shops sold the contact lens solution. It was a mission to find something that you would think would just be an easy enough thing to find. But now, there's so much convenience there. you know, loads of Facebook groups like Hanoi Massive, where, you know, if you need to know where to find something, there's answers, there's grab delivery. So basically, anything that you want, you can have delivered, you know, at the snap of a finger. So that has definitely changed and made things a lot more convenient and easy to navigate. And like I said, with all the Facebook groups, there's groups such as Hanoi Beautiful. So if you're moving there and wondering, you know, where can I go get a haircut? Where can I get my nails done? Where can I, you know, what's a reputable doctor, there's all of that information there, which wasn't necessarily there before. So I think that definitely makes a huge difference. Language is definitely challenging. Obviously, it's tonal. So I think even if you're able to learn a lot, you know, you could still be saying the wrong thing. You know, you could be saying penis or pomelo. They mean the same or it's the same word, but if you say it wrong, you could be ordering the wrong thing at the market. 18:57Kerry Newsome Yeah, but I know exactly what you're saying. And I know I got warned. My boss at the time, her name was spelt T-H-U-Y, which is pronounced “twee”. But if you say “tui” it actually means poop. So, you want to be really careful how you say that then. I'm not surprised that you're mentioning a lot about Facebook groups. For a time there, I really thought that Vietnam was run by Facebook. Like everything, every place, seems to have a Facebook page. And the beautiful part about that is, even though it may be in Vietnamese, you can still message it in English and then you get someone at the other end that messages you back in English and responds. I can, you know, book a hair appointment, Talk to my tailor. I can do a hundred things through Facebook. It's just amazing, isn't it? 20:08Kate Boardman Right. And I think as far as countries in South East Asia go, the level of English in Vietnam is definitely up there. especially now compared to a few years ago, there's such a push for young Vietnamese students to go to bilingual or international schools, to go to all these language centers. There's a huge push in the country for them to study abroad as well, which has its flaws, you know, even though as an international teacher, have obviously benefited from working at these schools. I hope that it doesn't take over their own culture by becoming so Western and so capitalistic that they're trying to, you know, be like the US or other countries in the West where they lose their own identity. 20:57Kerry Newsome Mm, it's a good point. And I'm right with you, I don't really want it to change, yet I know in my heart of hearts it's going to, it's all ready. I mean, I've been going back and forth for 14 years, and even in that time, each time I go back, and I go back twice or three times a year, and even in between visits, things have happened, things have changed. So, it's a bit scary and it's growing fast, really, really fast. Let's get on to accommodation because as you say, that's gone through some drastic changes too. So, did you find anything more about that when you visited in November in contrast to what it was for you back in 2016? Yeah. 21:42Kate Boardman So, when I first lived there, I was paying... One of the cool things was that a lot of people live in house shares. So you get these big, beautiful villas, especially where I was living in the Tejo, Westlake area, which is kind of the more expat neighborhood of Hanoi. There's a lot more now that are popular, but that was definitely the most popular when I was there. And it still is. And so a lot of us would live in a shared house with about five people in a house. I met some of my best friends in the world that way. And it was really great to have that kind of family away from home. If you are moving to another country, it's a great way to live with other people, have a group of friends that we would have holiday dinners together and Monday nights. So it was really special. But we would pay about 250 US dollars for a room often with an en suite and a balcony. And like I said, that would have been in a big five bedroom house. I then lived in a Lakeview apartment with a beautiful balcony overlooking Tay Ho and the two bedroom would have been about 600 US dollars. A month. I think that now, a month. And I think that now that would easily be well over 1000. So I've just spoken to my one of my best friends just moved to Saigon. So she's going to be teaching at an international school. They've given her about 700 US dollars to find a two bedroom apartment. But she said that when she was looking the other day for the amenities that she would want, which would be a pool and a gym, she's looking about at about $1,000. So A lot. Those are definitely Western prices, but obviously you're not going to get a pool and a gym in your building for $1,000 in New York City. So it's comparable to what you're getting, but it's still really expensive to think that you could be paying that much in Vietnam compared to what we paid years ago. 23:42Kerry Newsome Yeah, absolutely. And I think the interesting thing that I've learned from expats too is, you know, in that shared house and in the accommodations that you have, your style of living is so different to Western, you know, like, you know, you don't have ovens and you're not there cooking and baking like you would be at home. You're mostly eating out because it's just so affordable and, you know, you've got maybe somebody to come in and do the cleaning and, as you say, access to the pool, to the gym. So, it's still quite comparable, isn't it? Western life, but how does it compare to the salary? Like, do you go there to save money, or do you go there as an expat to just be an expat and live in another country to experience another country, or do you actually come home with savings, or I don't know. I'm not quite sure what I want out of this answer, but yeah. 24:42Kate Boardman No, so this is a big thing to consider when you're looking to move abroad. So, especially having been a teacher in so many different countries, you kind of get to know the countries that pay really well, or that you're mostly living in for an experience. And it's often supply and demand. You think of the countries where people really often want to live, the pay is obviously going to be a little bit less because they know that you're going to want to move there, even if the salary is low, whereas countries that might not be as enticing are often going to pay you more because they want to attract people to get there, which is why at a time the Middle East was paying a ton of money. Now, obviously, people want to go and live there. so the salaries have kind of dropped to reflect that. But Vietnam, when I first, so my first job there, I was earning about $2,000 a month. And after paying for rent, a motorbike every month, or no, I think I bought my motorbike, but paying for a motorbike, eating out, essentially every single day, partying and going out every weekend, traveling on every holiday, I would easily save half of my salary without even thinking about it. So I think the most important thing to think about is your earning to savings ratio. It's not necessarily how much money you're making, but the quality of life you can live with that and the amount of money that you can save. So I definitely was able to save half of my salary. So Even though $2,000 a month is not a lot by Western standards, I would never have been able to save $12,000 in the US working a job that paid more just because of the cost of living. That would just not be possible. Now, obviously, with the cost of living having gone up in Vietnam, I think that that would be much more challenging. But I think the jobs also reflect that in their pay. So you can, and again, it's up to how you live, you know, if you are eating at a Western restaurant, every single day, you're going to be paying about seven to $10 for a meal. But if you're eating a bowl of pho, you're going to be paying about two to three So it depends on what you spend your money on. You can obviously get a cafe soda from a local cafe for a dollar, or you could go and have a latte at Starbucks for six. So it's how you choose to live your life. And I think the great thing about Vietnam is that you have that balance and you have those options to be able to live as cheaply and inexpensively as you want or to be as lavish as you want as well. 27:25Kerry Newsome Yeah, I mean, you're totally right. It's definitely a lifestyle choice and how you live because, you know, I know even myself, if I stay, you know, a couple of months, if I have an extended stay, I find myself totally flipping on the way I live over there to how I live back home. How I eat, what I do, where I go, and where my money doesn't go. So, it's not going on parking fees or tolls or, you know, the eating out is nowhere near as expensive as it is over there. I adore Vietnamese food. So, you know, I can get fed very well. I can get a grab bike for you know, so cheap to get where I want to go. So, you know, you're right. You've got to really weigh up those pros and cons and what the experience of travel and immersing yourself in that kind of culture is going to do for you. 28:25Kate Boardman Also, just one thing to add to that, like the price of being beautiful. I joke around with my friends all the time. I'm like, oh, you're so lucky. You can be, you can afford to be so much more beautiful there because, you know, I always just felt so much I don't know, you're able to afford, you know, getting your nails done, getting your hair done, getting massages, you know, on a weekly basis, whereas back in the States, I can't do that on a regular basis. So I joke with my friends, you know, because they've all got their lashes done and their eyebrows and everything is done all the time, you know, whereas I'm lucky if I go to get my nails done, you know, every couple of months. 29:06Kerry Newsome I'm totally with you. I reckon I lose 10 years in a trip to Vietnam. I always come back feeling absolutely refreshed. And I feel like a foreigner back in my own country. It's terrible. 29:19Kate Boardman Oh, yeah. Whenever I go, I get all the things done. I'm making appointments at all the places to do all the things. 29:26Kerry Newsome And I'd be having a massage after dinner two or three times a week. Right. You'd be rude not to. It's vagrant. I know. It's totally vagrant. I want to move on. I want to get into what did you struggle with the most? What were some of the biggest challenges you found? 29:48Kate Boardman Well, obviously this is going back a long time, so these wouldn't necessarily be struggles now, but the struggle of trying to figure out where to get things, which is obviously not an issue anymore. Hanoi specifically, when I first moved there, it was January and I do not recommend doing that. No. God no. No. And I had come from, so my initial plan when I moved to Asia was to stay in Thailand. That was the whole plan. I had a wardrobe packed for Thailand and then I randomly ended up getting a job that paid twice as much in Hanoi. So I moved there without any plan of actually moving there. and did not have the clothes, did not have the shoes, could not find the shoes that fit me. I wear a size US 10. So those didn't exist then. But um, it was freezing. And I'm from Massachusetts, which is in the northeast of the US, which we get a lot of snow here. And I've never been so cold in my life. Because The humidity is so high, it's about 75% to 80% humidity. And so that means that it is a wet cold that soaks you through to the bone. And you're not driving in your heated car to work, you're driving on your motorbike. So once you're cold, you are cold. And oftentimes the houses are not insulated. So it's actually colder inside of your home than outside on the streets. So I definitely battled with this. And then you go into Mouldy March. So all your clothes start to grow mould on them. That's really fun. Anything black. So all my black leather jackets and my black leather shoes were covered in mould. There's ways around this. You can get things like cedar chips for your closet or try to take care of your things if you know that Mouldy March is coming. But the weather was definitely challenging. So I actually hated Hanoi when I first lived there. I hated it so much because I was like, why did I leave? Why am I here? I was going through a really bad breakup at the time. And I'm just like, what have I done? I've left my relationship. And now I'm in this freezing cold place that didn't see the sun because it's cloudy. And it rained a lot at that time and was freezing. So I was like, OK, great. I've, you know, left sunny Thailand and now I'm here. And that really took a toll on me. But then when the weather is nice, you understand the magic and you realize why people love the place so much, which makes going through the winters way more bearable because you know, you've already fallen in love with the place. So when I moved back, it was a totally different experience because you know, the fall is absolutely gorgeous. The weather is perfect. The summer, you know, you can chill out in a pool and spend a lot of time outside. So there's, there's a lot of different times of year, but it's worth it. It's worth the cold rainy season. 32:55Kerry Newsome And, you know, people, they don't want to listen to me when I tell them about when to go and when not to go places. You know, and people say, oh, you know, we want to, we definitely want to see, we want to go to Halong Bay at the beginning of January. And I go, no, that would not be a good idea. You won't be able to go on deck. You'll be freezing. There's just not a puffer jacket built to sustain that cold in Hanoi and places like that. But everybody just has this perception that Vietnam is just this you know, hot country. It's just hot all year round. And it's just not, is it? And... Right. No, not in the North. No. And the weather in the North is very different to the weather in the South. So, when I'm crossing seasons, I either spend more time in the North, depending on what time of year, or more time in the south or the central area, just to meet the best weather, conditional to the experiences that I want to have. Because you can't do much when, you know, there's no use going to Hoi An in October, for instance, and you want to go snorkeling on the Cham Islands. because the boats don't run, the water's too cloudy, the weather's too crap. So, you know, it's really an important thing. And when I trip plan for people, I hate to have to down their aspirations, but I do want to keep it real for them because I don't want them to get there and go, oh, wow, this is terrible, you know. Kate, I want to just step into things like safety. You know, you're a gorgeous looking girl, you're there traveling on your own, working on your own, looking after yourself, sounding like very extremely well, but do you feel safe? Do you feel like you've got good either access to good people and systems and medical care and, you know, things like that to in regard to walking around at night, you know, all of that kind of stuff. Because there's some cities in the world, I would say, I wouldn't feel safe doing those kinds of things. I just wondered how it was for you. 35:19Kate Boardman No, absolutely. And that's definitely something to consider when you're moving abroad. So first of all, things can happen anywhere. And I have to tell this to my parents all the time. My mom is always worrying about me, like, oh, my God, be careful. You know, and it's like, yeah, everywhere you go, something can happen. You just have to have your wits about you and understand the culture of where you're going, first of all. So I, Vietnam is a very safe country and Southeast Asia in general is extremely safe for solo female travelers. It's one of the best places that you can travel as a woman alone, I would say. you've got such a prevalence of like the Buddhist culture and it's a very peaceful culture and peaceful people. I've been in situations, I remember I dropped like $50 out of my pocket in Seoul in Korea and somebody came running up to pick it up and hand it to me. Whereas in other countries in the world, that wouldn't happen. And the same thing would happen in Vietnam. If you left your wallet in a place, you know, oftentimes the shopkeeper would run after you to get you. That's not to say that things don't happen. You know, I've had situations and I actually got robbed in Saigon. I was coming home late at night. This would have been years ago when I was backpacking and was coming home late at night. I was walking with a couple of guys but somebody came up on a motorbike behind us and I had a crossbody bag on and they just snatched it and took off my camera, my money, everything. So you definitely have to be careful and I've heard certain areas of Saigon that you want to be careful not to wear a lot of gold flashy jewellery because they've got people that will ride around on the motorbikes and they'll pull them off of you, but you just have to know where you're going. And I wouldn't say that that's the overall energy of the city. You might find that in more of the backpacker places, but once you live there, it's kind of, you know what areas to avoid. So, for example, I had a friend that when she lived in Saigon, if she was going out to the district one backpacker area, she might just not wear her flashy gold or valuable jewellery, you know, or make sure that she has a bag that's secure on her. There are also situations where house robberies could happen. This did happen to several of my friends where people would actually climb up from the outside and could break into your house. But again, this is not the norm. These, of course, happen. And I think it's important for people to know that they are possibilities. But it's definitely not the rule. There are more exceptions to the rule. And overall, I always felt very safe in Vietnam. There are great medical facilities. Obviously, you want to do your research and know where to go. But I've had friends that have, you know, delivered babies. I've had friends that have gotten surgeries. You know, there are good medical facilities there if you need. And again, just do your research. So if you're moving to a place, get a feel for what are the best hospitals to go to if something should happen so that you know and are ready for should anything happen. With motorbike safety, it's extremely important to know how to drive a motorbike, I would suggest that you really feel confident knowing how to ride a motorbike. I learned in Thailand, which prepared me for Vietnam. I think if you've never driven a motorbike before, Vietnam might be a little bit of an intense place to try. So obviously finding a quiet area where you can practice is important because the traffic is crazy and it takes some getting used to, but it's an organized chaos and it does flow. Once you get the hang of it, you'll understand it. But it's also important to make sure that your insurance is going to cover you if you're in a motorbike accident. So this is really important. I think a lot of insurance companies, travel insurance companies will only cover you if you have a license. So you would need to figure out if you're going to stay there a long time how to get a Vietnam motorbike license. And if you don't have a license that you are driving a motorbike, that's no more than a 50 CC. So I actually own a Honda Cub. Those are my favorite motorbikes. They're adorable. They're vintage. They're super cute. Mine was named Penny Lane, and she was adorable, turquoise, and I loved her. But she was a 50 CC. And so that meant that if anything happened, it would have been covered under my insurance. And, um, I use a safety wing, so I've actually sent you a link. So if you want to share that, um, so safety wing is great for digital nomads for insurance, but yeah, those are definitely some things to be aware of, but no, overall the Vietnamese are extremely. Friendly. I feel safe there and, and the men are not creepy. I think this is important to, of course, you know, you might get some looks, but I've definitely been to other parts of the world where. you feel uncomfortable because you're getting stared at, or even in Egypt, the guys would chase you down the streets. In Guatemala, whenever they drive by, they're whistling or yelling something out the window. But Vietnam, you don't really feel that from the men there, which is really refreshing. So I think for women, that's important, and you don't feel that you're being stalked or perved on by these men. 41:09Kerry Newsome Yeah, and that's been my experience as well. I think, you know, it's a lot of common sense, I think, a lot of times, don't you think? That, you know, if you want to be flashy, if you want to kind of, you know, act like you haven't got your wits about you, you're in the wrong place at the wrong time kind of thing, you're either too drunk to know what you're doing, well, you know, anything can happen. And as you say, that could happen in any country. I think that it's important to note that. And, you know, like I travel like you on my own most of the time. I'm blonde. I'm short. So, the short aspect helps me a lot. because I don't stand out, but my blonde hair does stick out like the proverbial. But, you know, I'm a bit older, so I often get a lot of respect from the Vietnamese, and they are very cordial and very sweet to me. So, you know, I always feel quite special the way they treat me when I'm over there. I mean, just common courtesies that, you know, you don't get in Western society as much. 42:24Kate Boardman No, they're extremely friendly and welcoming and helpful as well. You know, if I've been in situations where my motorbike is broken down on the side of the street and someone, you know, because I've run out of petrol or something and someone stops to help me and gone and gotten me some petrol or whatever. So They'll go out of their way to help you if they can. 42:44Kerry Newsome Absolutely. Kate, just to finish up, do you have any kind of last minute tips for people, things that they should definitely do? 42:56Kate Boardman I mean, so many, but I think try all the food, really explore the cafe culture, it's unlike anywhere else in the world, the local coffee, the beautiful cafes that they have, they're so fun to explore. For me, I love going down all the little hidden alleyways, that's where all the hidden gems are. So I think back home, what we would see as a sketchy looking alleyway, it's kind of dirty, or, you know, it's not maybe the most hygienic place to eat, those are the best spots. So don't let, don't judge a book by its cover, that's where the magic is. And my favorite places are the places that are down what might look like a sketchy alleyway, but it's a culinary heaven and you just got to go and get lost and try it. My favorite trips have been, one of my favorite trips of all time was a motorbike trip that I did up to Ha Giang, the Ha Giang Loop, which is on the border of China. So my girlfriend and I rode motorbikes for about six days, and it was the most stunning countryside I've ever seen. So definitely do a motorbike trip if you can. I know that that trip has become a lot more popular over the years. When I went, it was definitely off the beaten track. It's incredible. Hoi An is such a magical place and will forever be one of my favorite places. But yeah, I think just try to experience as much as you can. And I think that's what makes Vietnam so amazing is that you've got literally everything. You've got incredible beaches, deserts, jungle. thriving, bustling cities, cute ancient towns. There's tons of history and architecture and charm. And so there's really something for everyone to see there. 44:50Kerry Newsome Kate, thank you very much for being on the program. It's been really great to talk to you. 45.20 Kate Boardman Thank you so much for having me.

8b53cf12-8a94-41dc-a38d-cadd748c7d08We discuss the fun of trail marathons in Vietnam What About Vietnam - Series 2 – 21 The Fun of trail marathons in Vietnam Kerry Newsome: [00:00:00] Xin Chau and welcome to what about Vietnam today, I'd like to welcome David Lloyd to the program. And before we chat with David, I'm going to talk him up a little bit because he's got a really great résumé to support what he does. Just good for everyone to know just where he comes from and a little bit about him. Firstly, David's originally from the U.K. He's now living and based in Hoi An, which you would know from some of my other episodes, is a beautiful place in Vietnam. His background includes journalism and photojournalism. He's had worked published in The New York Times and also written guidebooks on Vietnam and Laos. So he's no slouch, if that's the best way to describe him. Lots of knowledge, I think gained about Vietnam accumulated doing that, I would expect. He's also full time sport and race director of all events for Topas Travel, and he's been doing that since 2006 when he was involved in the original race. And he's going to tell us a little bit about what that looked like then to what it looks like now. And when I talk about race, we're talking about the Vietnam Trial series, which I'm sure if you are interested in that kind of thing, that will definitely come up on your radar. So, David, welcome to the program. But before we get into anything in depth, I have just probably a quick question with the slightly long answer. Tell us what you love most about Vietnam. David Lloyd: First of all, thank you for the very kind intro. Very nice. So when I first came to Vietnam in 2011, and that was thanks to my wife, Becky, it was her decision. So, she was a primary school teacher back in London. And she had six weeks holidays, of course, as a result. And one of those holidays, she took off without me and explored Lao, Cambodia and Vietnam. And when she came back shortly after that, we got married. We'd always spoken about living overseas somewhere. And so she'd said Vietnam would be a good place to start for six months based on what she'd seen on those travels. So, the plan was Vietnam for a few months, six months maybe, and then we were going to move on. But essentially, very long story short, we never did move on. We both absolutely fell for the place. And as you know, it's a very easy country to fall in love with. [00:02:42] And so here we are, 10 years and we've never really never looked back and certainly never regretted the decision to come here first. Kerry Newsome : Okay. Now, when I think about running, I think of it as a very solo sport, it's like something that you can enjoy for many different reasons. But sometimes it's the sport or the game that you actually play with yourself, so to speak. So before we get into the competitive side of the sport, which you've certainly taken to a new level, there's lots of talk about running and walking and that kind of experience now, especially during Covid, post Covid as a way of keeping positive and for our mental health. Tell us what you love about running and or cycling. What is it? What does it do for you? David Lloyd: It's a question that is a big question. What I love about running. Well running for me really started with running in the mountains in Wales. And that is both a solitary pursuit and something that you can enjoy with friends. So a lot of mountain running is very sociable because you'd go out, particularly if you're not trying to run fast. You go out with a group and it's about, you know, enjoying each other's company and enjoying the beauty of the mountains. I also used to go out there solo so I would drive up camp and then run for 20 or 30k or so and then come down somewhere completely random in in a valley and hitchhike back. And something that I loved about that was a fact. You could run off a mountain in the middle of nowhere in Wales, stick your thumb out, and it would generally take maybe one car would go by before you'd get a lift. And so that would kind of really, you know, fulfil your faith in humanity with other people who were kind enough to pick you up and take you back. So you've got a lot of things out of that day running in the mountains. But road running is not really my thing. But I see a lot of people get a lot out of that in the same way in terms of, you know, personally, you can run and get very fit and run alone and clear your mind and destress. Also, a particularly here in Vietnam, people do it in groups. You've got huge run clubs; social run clubs and some companies have run clubs. And it's a great way for people to get together. And it's also a great leveller. So whether you're the CEO of a company or you're just starting out in a company or you're a student or whatever you do, everybody is pretty much the same when they get the trainers on and go for a run. I think that's a massive part of why people love that mountain running. And the cycling is a similar thing, really. It can be great in a group or great alone. But the added benefit of cycling is you can go further. So it's a lot of exploration, really finding out about a country with adventures about that. So, yeah, elements of adventure as well, particularly in Vietnam. You can often have the feeling here in Vietnam that you might be the first person to have ridden that road or one of the first people anyway. So, yeah. So pretty much unbeatable, I would say. Unbeatable way to discover a country. And also, of course, you're getting fit and healthy and enjoying yourself and generally with a big smile on your face. So lots to recommend both. Kerry Newsome: Yes. And I think it is that that feeling of when you are out running, experiencing the fresh air, the environment, that togetherness, as you say, with people in a safe way. But if we if we now focus on the Vietnam trial series, as I understand it, that kind of kicked off around 2013 and I think your numbers were around about two or three hundred people at the time. And now we're looking at 2021. And you're thinking that, well, when we spoke last that there could be up to 10,000 runners across your trials series. That's a massive growth. How do you explain that growth in participation going back to 2013 when it started? It began at the NSA where the TOPAS Eco lodges at the time, and it was the General manager at the time, as he loved mountain running the same as I love mountain running. And a few of the other key people he pulled in, as essentially volunteers to work on that first race. And at that time, it's fair to say there was no mountain running or trail running seen at all in Vietnam. So yes you are right, about 200 runners. And of those, I would say around 10 where we're actually from Vietnam. So, when you look at it that way, it would have been pretty hard not to grow to some extent. But the growth rate that we've seen has been huge. And it's an exponential beginning, certainly. So it was from 10 and then 200 people and then over the years essentially doubled, for a few years overall participation. But within that, the number of Vietnamese was growing fastest. So the appetite for adventure and mass participation sport in Vietnam has been growing hugely. I mean, I think back in 2013, I used to live next to the Canadian Independence Park in Hanoi. And you’d look out the window there or I'd run in there and it was pretty full of runners and people exercising and all sorts of running, walking, whatever. But they weren't joining the event because there weren't many events to join. And also, while it was busy in that park, it wasn't run like it is today. But now you run through there and you're weaving between people. So, it's not only the racing, but generally the participation in sport has increased here a lot. Kerry Newsome: And you're right, I can remember coming to Vietnam, you know, you know, over 10 years ago. And the Vietnamese, generally speaking, apart from maybe yoga, meditation, that was starting to kick off. But, you know, they didn't have gyms, gyms, you know, initially were in hotels. And the only places that you could go to, and they were mainly for foreigners not the Vietnamese themselves, I didn't see that appetite. But you're right, in the last 10 years now you've got volleyball on the beach, you've got running, you've got cycling, you've got gym clubs. You've got you know, the Vietnamese have really embraced sport and become, you know, definitely more active in that. So in talking about the trial series, I got to spend a little bit of time just having a look at some of the stories and the personal experiences from the runners themselves. Just through looking at your website. I might add, before I go on, the aerial footage that you feature on your site. So I'm going to put links, etc. to the website for that so that people can just have a look at the space and the environment that they're going to get to experience if they join one of your trial series. But talking about some personal experiences, I think there was one lady named Charmaine and, you know, they were talking about some of the aspects of the trial and about the fear of running downhill. And they were talking about just being aware, you know, and I'm talking to people who are obviously going to be examining their own fitness levels. So talk to us a little bit about, you know, running uphill and down dale, just about the fitness around running, you know, using polls and just managing heat, diet, dehydration, that kind of thing. Can you talk to us a little bit about that? Because, yeah, I think that's something people will be thinking about if they're going to come and do something like this. David Lloyd: Yeah, I mean, you mentioned I mean, she's a pretty extreme example. She's 100k champion. Kerry Newsome : Oh, wow. David Lloyd: I know her very well. She's an Aussie. And I remember her very well because as she crossed the finish line, she came right into my face and said, David, I hate you. I'm never doing this again. But with a big smile on her face. And she's a real character and she's really well liked, in the trailer community, but she's pretty extreme. So she might have said something about her ability downhill, but she's very modest, like she's very, very good up and down and with whatever you throw at her. But generally we have from 10K up to 100k. So the Charmaine's of this world can join 100K, but normal people can choose 10K, 15k, 22k and then we have 42k and 70k. But the ability to run, I mean run is a key word here, because while it's called trail running. Even someone like Charmain, who's winning 100K is spending a lot of that time walking, because it's so steep up there, the fastest way to get up as the economy running economy wise, actually to walk quite often, to walk as fast as you can. If you're if you're a good top runner. But if you're a normal person, you will be walking quite a lot anyway. So it's about running when you can on an easy trail, and then the ups and the downs, you just take them on as well as you can do. So for some people, that means walking uphill fast. For some people it means just getting to the top so they can get down the other side again. Yes, just keep moving. I mean, some people call it when it gets longer distance or longer time, like Jasmine Paris we just interviewed. She's one of the best entrepreneurs in the world. We just interviewed her for our website and she said it's like one long picnic going on an ultra run, and it's about being the best at picnicking and running at the same time. It's like an eating contest with running thrown in. You've got to keep getting your food in, and finding out what works for you food wise. So, yeah, for people who are who like to eat and be active, it's like the ultimate sport, really. So, yeah, a lot about eating, keeping, eating and keeping moving and yeah. Like for new runners or mountain runners or mountain walkers, whatever you want to call it, it's really about enjoying making sure you enjoy yourself. David Lloyd: So yeah, certainly some training is needed, but if as long as people start off with the shorter distance events don't bite off more than they can chew at the beginning, then they should have a good time and then sort of gradually progress through the to the longer distances, if that's what they want to do. But yeah, for most of the runners are those eight or ten thousand. It's not really about eventually running and it's much more about having a good time and getting out onto the trails and having an adventure that they would never normally have. You know, versus sitting behind a desk in the city nine to five. Kerry Newsome : From your experience, do people come to Vietnam ahead of the series to do any, like pre training or do they kind of land arriving to Hanoi? Have a good sleep next day. They're into it. Or do they kind of come a couple of days ahead and kind of acclimatize? Is that something that you see? David Lloyd: Yeah, the people I would say definitely the people who are coming in from overseas, like a lot of our runners, a regional would be Singapore, Hong Kong, and they would tend to come in with a day or two. One thing is so they can just get over that flight. And another thing is so they can enjoy being here. If you're going to fly to Vietnam, it's not normally just about the running for most people. They want to see a bit of Hanoi before they come up to the mountains, enjoy some food, see the cafe culture. So, yeah, they tend to come in earlier and I absolutely recommend people have that time. Of course they should. And then ideally they should stay for a week afterwards as well and go around it and enjoy what Vietnam has to offer. But people are coming from Australia, like I say, like the Charmaine's of this world. And generally they'd be having a week or 10 days holiday because it's it's a long flight. And, yeah, they want to make the most of it for sure. Kerry Newsome: And, you know, people coming from the UK and Europe the same, it's it's a bit of a journey! So why not? Hey, look, you talk about the food, I had a look at your organic pumpkin soup and recovering green smoothies. I mean, they sound pretty awesome. Are they on the menu? Are they part of the picnic race? So, yeah. So the picnic element, people tend to bring quite a lot of picnic stuff in in their own backpacks. But what we provide is so that what specifically is from Christian, who's a chef we have up at the Topas Eco Lodge & Sapa and actually now he's general manager of the Topas Riverside Lodge, and he's big into sort of farm to table, and organic as much as possible. And we partner up there with a lot of the growers. So we know where our rice comes from. We have people who grow the fruit that we purchased directly from. And the food actually goes through the eco lodge in a nice circular economy, and that the food waste we have, we'll then turn into compost, which you give to the farmers or to just straightforward animal feed to give to the pigs. And so he's really into this. And also he grows his own vegetables. But yeah, that's his recipe. And that proves pretty popular on checkpoint. So for the longer run, as they get food on the way around the race, if they're doing 70K, they'll get fed on the way. But all runners, when they come to our finish line, they get meals. So at the eco lodge that's prepared at the eco lodge. And if we do a race, so we do races in other places which don't finish conveniently on our own property, they finish in the middle of nowhere in a field. And that's kind of more fun in a way, how it works. But we have a chef, Ben, who's become amazing at setting up like a “field” kitchen, almost military style. And he creates food for 4500 runners. In the kitchen, and he'll say employ local people, and he'll bring his own canteen, but then he employs local people in the area and just creates like a crack team of cooks and they knock up this great food. So we always have that pumpkin soup, but then we'll have another dish that's more local to each area generally. So we have a beef stew, for the meat eaters. And then we've got the pumpkin for the non-meat eaters and we have a load of different vegetable options and local fruits. And so, like, almost like a buffet. When you finish the run, because whether you've run 10K or 100k you tend to be quite hungry. And actually even the 10K runners, they tend to take hours and hours to finish the 10K because it's on the trail and it can be rigorous. And they also like to take a lot of photos along the way. So we take a long time and so when they arrive it can be quite late lunch. So they're quite happy to get stuck into the end to be prepared. That's actually one of my favorite aspects of our races, is to watch what he creates in this, because it's just a field with nothing in it, and then it's overrun with4-5,000 people. So, a little shout out to the team. It's a pretty amazing, fantastic job. Kerry Newsome: So talk to us about these locations now that are involved in each of the trials. So I think there’s 4 locations all throughout this now? David Lloyd: That's very, very current of you because you are just adding one, the fourth one in June that's just about to come up. Perhaps your listeners who've been to Vietnam or certainly if they are thinking about coming to Vietnam, they know Sapa and if they're researching coming, they'd know it is the sort of class tour. [00:18:22] But beyond that are the grand big high mountains and the rice terraces, the majestic kind. Every scenery that you think of when you think of Vietnam that's up there, with all of the ethnic minority villages amongst it. And so the big draw of running there is, like I say this, the highest mountains in Vietnam and perhaps the most picturesque rice terraces that exist/ And also it's the first one we started in 2013. So sort of seen as the original and the biggest. It's the hardest. You can throw a lot of superlatives at that race. So that's Vietnam, an amazing marathon. And this year we had 100 hundred miles of that race, which is for the truly insane who want to run 168, which is. Yeah, completely ridiculous. But anyway, they want to try it. So we're giving it to them this year. And then we have Moc Chau, which is that one I would say would be famous within Vietnam, but not well known at all outside. And what it's famous for here, is in just before Tet or Lunar New Year, it is the blossom season. There you have a plum and apricot blossom flowers. And yeah, it's incredible. And people, from anywhere love it. People here completely go mad for it. So, you're running through these incredible dreamlike scenes of Blossoms. [00:19:44] And actually that area also has a lot of different ethnic minority villages and just incredible trails. And then the third one is the more extreme case. David Lloyd: [00:19:58] That's four hours south of Hanoi. But I mean, you ask where it is and even people in Hanoi would say, where is that? When we first found. Yeah, that's why I'm saying they didn't know it. [00:20:09] So, it was pretty much off the map when we went there and there was one hotel there with a pool, that wasn't very well known yet, and that was 2017. And now it's becoming more on the maps. If you say to looking to someone in Hanoi now, they'll know where you mean. But that area is pure magic. And almost got everything apart from the beach that you think of in Vietnam in this small microcosm area. So amazing. Rice terraces, limestone mountains, ethnic beautiful ethnic minority villages that look like they haven't changed for years. And all some trails from a business perspective, really excellent runnable trails and a lot of diversity on the on the course as well. [00:21:00] But it's one of those places where no matter how useless you are, no matter how bad your camera phone is, you can't fail to take an amazing photo of that place. [00:21:08] So it's a no brainer to a race there from a beauty point of view, but from a logistics and accommodation point of view, it was a daft idea because that's in 2017 there was not much there and you could barely get a bus there. So we had to do a lot of work, a lot of work to set that one up. But it was worth it for sure. It's an amazing race, that one. Kerry Newsome: So that's been a matter of people taking selfies along the way. Yeah. You know, it’s Vietnam. Yeah. So what's the fourth one. David Lloyd; The fourth one. We're going back to our roots and that one's coming up. In June, and that's going to be called VMD Kang, so Kang is an area of Sapa that people wouldn't know and that's where the race is going to finish and it's going to go for the 50 K, it's going to start in Saper and go up onto the high mountain ridge, which is so it's a bridge run style race, like a sky run style, which has never been done in Vietnam before, is another first. [00:22:06] And also it's a great one if people will do the 100 mile later in the year, they can test part of that route. But more importantly, most people will never, ever run the 100 mile, even a good 70 K run. They won't do it because it's, as I say, ridiculous is the word. So this is a chance for people who are more normal to see that route, than the people who are very much not normal they'll do when they run the 100 miles. It's like opening up for more people and, you know, doing it in June. Is it? Kerry Newsome: I mean, June, to me spells heat. David Lloyd: Yeah, well, definitely I mean, we had the jungle marathon in May before we moved because it was so hot. [00:22:50] But what we do is we start early. [00:22:52] So to start times are really early and people who do these kind of things,tend to quite like getting up early, luckily. [00:22:57] So the shorter distance runners will be done by the time it gets super hot. And then when we finish, there's a river right next to the Riverside Lodge. So people will finish and then just go and jump into the cold River and hang out with some beers. I hope, ….I've got this image in my mind and I have everyone hanging out with a bit of cold beer in the river and just having a good time. [00:23:19] But yeah, it will be hot. That will be a challenge. But one thing one thing is now everyone who's going to do it is going to be living in Vietnam, thanks to the borders being closed. So everyone will be acclimatized and ready for sure. Kerry Newsome : So talk to me a little bit about, you know, pre req’s for the marathon. Like, is there an age barrier or age set that you take on and talk to us a little bit about the safety aspect of that. You know, if somebody kind of collapses along the way or, you know, is affected by heat or heat exhaustion. Talk to us a little bit about how you manage that. David Lloyd: Yeah. So there is age limits. They vary depending on race. And the one in in May that I was talking about, we had a higher minimum age limit because of that heat aspect there, actually. But so for the longer distances 21 & up, you've got to be 18. But a 10K is younger and it depends on the race. But you have to be with a parent or guardian who will run with you. So you sign a consent form for the kid. And so you're taking care of the kid who's coming along with you. And then we have a 5K which kids like. But, they of course have to be with parents or guardians to take them and to go along with them. But that 5K one is normally is in January. So that's the weather cool line. And it's not very far and there's no big climb. So along the way we have lots of water stations with food, and fruits. We have fruits and water and electrolytes. So to the hydration aspect and every aid station, we have medical staff and then we have people on the course with we all have our phones dedicated for that race. So it's not like you've got your Facebook and everything on that would just be a phone just purely for the race. And so if and if that phone rings, you answer, it doesn't matter what you do and you answer it. So that's for me and my key port management team. And we also have satellite phone. So when where out of reach, which we never really are on most of these races, but we've also got back up satellite phone. So we've got a place pretty well, covered. [00:25:31] And then we are very fortunate to be part of it. I'm not which is a used to be known for their hotel they had in the old quarter in Hanoi. And that's how our relationship with them goes back to the 90s as a company. [00:25:46] But now they're in hot, they're in medical and they're about to open a massive hospital in Hanoi that's coming about how many beds. But it's got it's a colossal and we're lucky to have them as our medical partners. So they have the most we've had seven doctors, two or three ambulances and 10 or 12 nurses from them. And then we supplement that with the medical team from the local area as well. So we have the local hospitals provide staff and ambulances and they're also on backup ready if anything happens. But, yeah, we luckily nothing has happened that's been major yet. So small issues with ankles and some dehydration issues, but nothing that hasn't been able to be sorted out within the day. So, yeah, we're we're lucky we talk a lot about drinking so. Well, if you come to our race on the start line, I'm generally there and I'm sure people think I'm like a broken record. But it's all that I remember to drink, remember to drink and remember to drink because especially at 4am on the start line for a long distance, it's not hot yet. People aren't thinking about they need to drink necessarily, especially newbies. So it's a of drilling and in checkpoints, I'm constantly reminding people to drink when they come to the checkpoint. So, yeah. David Lloyd : So you definitely have to keep an eye on or keep a lookout. And remember, you've got to take care of these people on the course. But as I say, luckily nothing has happened major, no big issues yet. Kerry Newsome : That's a great record. Just something else I noted about what you do, which I think is fantastic, that, you know, your marathons go to support some various charities, as in Operation Smile, Newborns, Vietnam, Blue Dragon. How did that come about? I think that's a great, great way to contribute to the community. So talk to us a little bit about that. David Lloyd: I can say this without sounding arrogant, because that wasn't my idea originally when it started in 2013. [00:27:40] I think it was. The first race, if not the first, and very early on, it was decided that a portion of the race fees would go to charities and that's been up to 20 dollars per race fee for the longer distance one, and which is definitely unusual in terms of the percentage of the of the fee. And so at the beginning of Operation Smile and local charities, what we do is split it 50 percent between all local projects sorry that we could manage in South because we'd been working there since the 90s and then 50 per cent to a national charity or international charity. So that was all reaching Operation Smile and that's the race grew. And now I think we've given around 30 US dollars each. That's too much way too much for us to handle in local projects. And also I wanted to split it between more charities. So the first other one I brought on was newborns Vietnam, which I have a quite close relationship because there is a British charity and I was involved with them on a personal level, fundraising through challenges before, and they work to reduce neonatal mortality and critically ill babies. So they started in Danang and there's a great graph of what their impact was in Danang hospital. So it's it actually falls off a cliff, the mortality rate when they went in there and started working with them, because there's so many small things that you could do which made a huge difference with very little money. And now they want more long term bringing in the professors from UK, teaching hospitals and teaching here. And the idea is they teach and then the people here learn and then they teach. So it's sustainable for the for the long term. So hopefully at some point they won't be bringing people from Britain anymore and they'll move on to do other work as newborns. [00:29:24] And then we also work with Blue Dragon, which is a Blue Dragon Children's Foundation. Now, that's a that's a fellow Aussie who started that one of yours. And he's amazing is Michael. So he started that as a as a kids charity, working with kids on the street in Hanoi, and that grew them to not only work with street kids, but also victims of human trafficking. So they do amazing work bringing people back from who've been trafficked to China. And then they work on advocacy and they work on changing the law here in Vietnam to be able to be better attuned to these victims of trafficking, when they come back. And they also have kids running club. Now, when we started working with them, we gave them free slots for the Emem and the who's an amazing guy. He was a former street kids, became their main, if not their head of social work and one of their top social workers working with the kids. And he set up the run club. And so we do that together now. So each week, once or twice, Lakita what people always go, one of our good runners, Brangwyn, goes along and coaches them and I'll go when I can when I'm in Hanoi. And yes, these kids are amazing. And they they know train once or twice a week, sometimes more. And then they come up and they run mostly the 10K because a young couple of them are doing 21. And not that it matters how good they are, but there are some also some pretty good talent. You can see those promising kids in that group, one or two. [00:30:52] So it that's a great thing to be involved with for on many, many levels. And there are the charities we've worked with, but those are the top three we're working with now. [00:31:04] Yeah, I know a little bit about the Blue Dragon because of a charity I support called the CEF Foundation. I don't know whether you know Linda Burn, but she's based in Hoi An. Yes. So I know from an education point in the trafficking side of things, I think is key for, you know, young and impressionable Vietnamese to be aware of the tricks and traps that they can be exploited by in that in that area. So it's great to see you involved with that. And of course the others as well. Operation Smile, Newborns, Vietnam. We might put some links to those charities and in the episode notes for sure. Kerry Newsome : So in summary, if you were to give some advice to anyone considering this and as I said before, I'm sure across the globe, everyone listening is thinking of Vietnam as a place to come Post Covid because of just how well it's done as far as managing the Covid pandemic. But also because it does involve some great opportunities to do things like what you do. [00:32:19] Ah, you know, what advice would you give them? You know, if they're thinking about this and joining one of your trials series, like train up, like get out, get really super fit and, you know, start doing some training in hot weather or I don't know anything like that. [00:32:37] I'd say do it. I mean I would say anybody could do it. So you've got all. [00:32:41] All of all shapes and sizes coming across the finish line, and you can either flip through and look at videos and you'll see that we do see people of all sorts of all walks of life doing it. So let's say you want to do it. And if you if you have certainly not done some training, that would be a bit daft. And if you’ve done some longer a little longer walk before you come and have a crack at it, and try and do something of similar distance to what you're going to do, sign up for 10K, trying doing a 10K walk or run before you do it. [00:33:06] But I would say for a start, a 10k one, if you're if you've never run before or walked. Well yeah. Could be a good start or 21k. A lot of people do 21k off the bat. Kerry Newsome: I mean actually I do 5k and I think I'm doing well …ha! If you look at it is a hike as a long hike then people will have a bit more confidence I think to go for something longer. David Lloyd: But I mean here in Vietnam, people who just go up, sign up for 40k to and just do that first. But basically, we have some regulations about that to guide people that they shouldn't jump in the deep end. But yeah, it's I doable. And for many people, almost all people, I'd say if you get something in a diary, it gives you that motivation to get out and run. So, you know, the hardest thing about starting with running is, you know, getting out the door and that first kilometre course. But once you're out there and you've done the first km walk or run, it's worth it. You feel a lot better and you start to feel like you're moving better. But it's that initial part. But for a lot of people, just getting that done it's just it's not going to happen without some reason. And a reason can be making a race. But in a race that you don't say it, whether it's a 5K, you know, in your local city or a 10K in Vietnam, getting something in there to motivate you is key, I think. But I think if that's if you're in Australia and that is a 21 K in the mountains of Vietnam and a holiday to get in shape for, I think these are two pretty good carrots. Yeah, why not. Of course it's a takes a bit of a leap of faith to book something now of course. But I think that things are starting to look like they're not so unrealistic to think it might happen in the next year and into 2022. I think we could be welcoming people again from from where you are and from around the world to run these races. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, I think this week's been encouraging in the media that's come out that, you know, Vietnam is recognising that they do need to look at opportunities to open their doors to tourists, and now the vaccine is getting rolled out. I think, you know, vaccine passport holders and things. I think I'm crossing fingers that, yes, you know, end of the year, 21, 22. Hopefully we can welcome people back to Vietnam. [00:35:30] So I've started this thing, David, where after the Lunar New Year, I decided to try and pick a word for the year to help me focus on everything I'm doing. So I'm going to tell you mine my word for the year, so that'll give you a couple of minutes to think about what yours would be. But mine is REVIVE So my aim for the year is to revive the best experiences of Vietnam and share them with everyone on this show. Because I think to talk about Vietnam in a way of, you know, of it being stuck in COVID. But it's never going to be stuck in covid forever. So, you know, anything I can do to revive the travel industry and tourism and put a positive spin on coming to Vietnam? That's what I'm about. So my words revive. [00:36:26] Do you have a word for the year, the year of the buffalo? David Lloyd: I think I would have two. [00:36:38] Yeah. I mean, something key for us, really. And I try to instil in my team here is “resilience” really that you've got to be resilient at the moment here because, you can have everything set up and ready to roll that. [00:36:50] We've had the recent race and that we had to postpone for a few months. And the key thing everyone in our team needs to be is they need to be resilient and be able to keep going. And also they need to be second, whether to be optimistic. So like you say, things are going to open up here. And we've been extremely lucky in Vietnam in the last twelve months with the way the Covid situation has been handled. It's been a few little waves, but they've always been resolved and they've been able to open up things again to have the domestic tourism in these races. So I think each time something happens, we need to be resilient and we need to be optimistic and remember that it always comes good there in Vietnam. It has done this has been three times now, four times. So, yeah, optimism and resilience. I am sorry for cheating? Kerry Newsome: I like it. I like it. I'll take them. I'll take them. David, it's been great having you on the show. Thanks for sharing your experiences and everything about the series, really love to explore that further. I'll make sure for everyone listening that I put as many links in the episode notes so people can can contact you directly to know more about it and get involved. Just just. Yes. Sincerely, just great to have you on the program. [00:38:01] Thank you very much. And it's great to spread the word more and a real pleasure to be on. Thank you for having us to help us spread that word further. Kerry Newsome : OK, thanks, David.

9314952c-f274-446b-bdc3-e7e3cbc3d886Colourful landscapes of the village of Mu Cang Chai Mu Cang Chai - a landscape of beauty and ingenuity Episode 2 S3-02 Mu Cang Chai 00:00 / 28:54 Deep in the valleys forged by the waters of Asia’s Red River, a series of colorful mountain villages are encircled by fields of towering rice terraces. The fields are agricultural feats of precision — rugged mountains blanketed with emerald stairways that, seemingly, ascend to the heavens above. But this is not Disneyland. This isn’t a destination designed to attract visitors, international attention or the Instagram set. But it did attract one Instagrammer, Jesse Pearlman and he is my guest today. You will love hearing about this region as Jesse tells his tales and his experiences getting there the first time, and later, trips back and forth. You will hear in his voice that his love of the region belongs to the people and comes from a very soulful place in his heart. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S6-E6 Is tipping required in Vietnam - A practical guide for travellers < Back S6-E6 Is tipping required in Vietnam - A practical guide for travellers S6-E6 Is tipping required in Vietnam - A practical guide for travellers 00:00 / 22:22 Series 6 Episode 6 Is tipping required in Vietnam? A practical guide for travellers. Tipping. It’s one of those topics travellers rarely ask out loud — but almost everyone wonders about. · Do you tip in Vietnam? · Is it expected? · How much is appropriate? · And where does it actually apply? In this episode of One Question at a Time , I give context to the aspect of tipping many places miss: It’s a sign of thanks and appreciation for extra service. A little goes a long way and is very much appreciated, but NOT expected. Vietnam is not a US-style tipping economy. There is no automatic 20% expectation. No hidden cultural rulebook. But — tourism has influenced certain sectors, and in some situations, tipping is appreciated. In this practical guide, I explain: Where tipping most commonly applies (drivers, guides, cruises and hotels) Where it’s completely unnecessary (street food, taxis, local eateries) How much is appropriate in Vietnamese context Why over-tipping can sometimes do more harm than good How to approach tipping with cultural awareness rather than pressure This episode is about travelling respectfully — understanding local norms, budgeting wisely, and avoiding awkward guesswork at the end of a tour or meal. As always in Series 6, we focus on one question at a time — so you can travel confidently, not confused. If you're planning a trip and want guidance beyond the brochures — from timing to logistics to cultural nuances like this — that’s exactly what I help travellers navigate every day. Listen now and take tipping off your worry list. Do you have a travel question or wish to give some feedback? You have 90 seconds. Click to read the voicemail recording policy Previous Next

9a6d1613-985b-413d-9059-740f70feef70 Rich in history and culture and yet bursting to change. Street life experiences in Hanoi through the lens of a camera Episode 9 S3-09 Photographic experiences 00:00 / 34:32 Hanoi, where the old and the new live side by side. A city rich in history and culture and yet bursting at the seams to change. Whether you decide to walk the streets or ride a bike to get around it, there are some great tips you should listen to, for when you visit. My guest, Lavonne Bosman, decided to visit Vietnam for the purpose of capturing what she calls “disappearing worlds”. Lavonne, is a South African born, Photographic Artist. Her passion is travelling the world and capturing places and people in the midst of rapid development. In her words, it’s about finding the art of “disappearing worlds” as we know it. In my opinion her work is insightful and unpretentious. Make sure you check it out. Lavonne landed in Hanoi in 2019 and while teaching English since her arrival she has been expanding her portfolio with the street culture of the city. She has an exceptional portfolio of work which you can access through the links below and photo postcard booklet, which is simply divine and it can be purchased here... You can order direct from lavonnebosman@gmail.com or via Facebook:. https://www.facebook.com/LavonneBosmanPhotoArt 
If you would like to support Lavonne in her quest to continue photographing the city of Hanoi: https://www.patreon.com/Photoartstories Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

e6acd571-d597-42f0-a46f-3c845c437070Health and wellness retreats - what to look for. What About Vietnam - 2-12 Health and Wellness Retreats - What to look for, Part 1 Kerry Newsome: Hi, and welcome to What About Vietnam. Look, with so much going on in the world right now, challenging us on so many levels, I thought it was perfect timing to release a series of episodes, focusing on the opportunities in Vietnam for healing, relaxation, wellbeing, and health. Now, I know travel remains for most of us something that we're restricted to our own countries and our local areas. But I think for the future, I wanted to let people know that when the doors open, Vietnam has a lot to offer in this area, like not only is there the beautiful scenery, but there are some very special retreats specifically designed to help us, you know, reboot our energy levels, heal our minds, and connect with like-minded people. Okay, so, let's welcome Emma Sothern Sothern, a yoga and mindfulness instructor and local to Hoi An, who offers yoga and mindfulness retreats. As a traveler herself, Emma talks to us about what to expect from a retreat in Vietnam. I mean, specializing in the area of yoga and mindfulness, she's got some great advice on what to look for when researching the best retreat for you and the best retreat that's going to serve your expectations. You know, like what do you want to get out of a retreat? Emma Sothern herself arrived in Vietnam from Ireland about two to three years ago. And she was immediately smitten by the people and the locality of Hoi An. After traveling extensively through Southeast Asia and Vietnam, she decided to come back and finally settled down with her partner in Vietnam and offer retreats for people wanting the experience of rejuvenation. As she knows it's possible. When you decide to say to yourself, I deserve this. It's not a self-indulgence, it's something that's good for me. And it is going to offer me the healing and general escape or reboot that I need. Emma has been driven in her studies of yoga and teaching due to her own stresses as a young girl, coping with a condition called Alopecia, which is an auto-immune condition she's had most of her life, you can access more information about the great work she does in this area to support people, as I will put a link in the episode notes. As a delightful Irish girl now living and very happy in Hoi An. She's got some smart advice for all of us when we think about choosing to do something for ourselves, especially when that opportunity comes in another country and possibly a country that is foreign to you. So, learning a little bit about Vietnam, let's get straight into it as I ask Emma Sothern with my vision board for what to expect from a retreat in Vietnam matches what can be achieved, let's say hello to Emma. Talk to us a little bit about what someone can expect from a retreat in Vietnam. Just make sure that my vision is matching out my expectations kind of thing. Emma Sothern: Sure, well it's a really exciting time I think, to come on a retreat in Vietnam because it hasn't quite reached, maybe saturation point like some other countries like say Bali as it is wonderful for yoga; but there's just so much. It can be a little overwhelming. Vietnam for me anyway, it still feels like retreats here are very genuine and very authentic. So, they're not just kind of only focused on marketing, maybe they're here to give you just a beautiful setting. People who are really, really passionate about yoga and they practice what they preach as well,plus... it's affordable, which is really important. And you have all the other aspects of Vietnam, like just amazing food, really healthy foods, your beautiful settings. So, in Hoi An, we're lucky to have the beach; the rice fields and then the river running through. So, you have all these bamboo trees and yeah, it’s your ideal setting. I suppose, if what you envisage is just somewhere, you can just totally relax in a lovely setting with really good teachers and really good food, then it does live up to that. Kerry Newsome: Oh, brilliant. Okay, fantastic. Now I decided when we began chatting that I would actually devote a couple of episodes, actually I think I'm doing three or four different episodes about retreats, health retreats in Vietnam. And obviously I'm delighted to talk to you about yoga and meditation, but also mindfullness in this session. So, tell us a little bit, like how do you separate out one from the other, as in what's the difference between a mindfulness retreat and a yoga retreat or do they sometimes get combined? Emma Sothern: Yeah, so they're often combined. But I suppose before you maybe book your retreat, it's important to maybe see what you want to get out of it. So, if you're looking for something that you really want to get exercise, or you want to find out more about yoga and you want to know about the kind of different varieties available and more of, I suppose, the theoretical side of yoga than a purely yoga retreat is really good. Especially that's what I did before in Bali and other retreats, but it was mainly focused on the physical exercise and I did have things like breath work and some meditation in it, but it was quite a physical experience, like it's more like a workshop and extended workshops. So, we were doing three classes a day, quite intense, quite tiring. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, that can be rigorous. Emma Sothern: And you usually, your schedule can be quite busy, so you might not actually have that much relaxation time that can be maybe a big class in the morning, you have breakfast and it's all kind of planned out for you. But I suppose on some yoga retreats, we'll have aspects of more the spiritual chanting and some other activities like that. So, you can really kind of get back to the roots of yoga I suppose. I'm finding back to connection with the ancient practice of yoga, whereas mindful retreats. Some mindful retreats won't even have yoga in them like you might be just doing different activities, like mindful writing or mindful eating. You could be doing different forms of meditation, so you're doing shisha meditations, walking meditations, even things like tea ceremonies and there's so many different aspects. And I suppose I see mindfulness as this kind of toolkit that you can bring with you for everyday life. So, for me, it's really about coping with things like stress and just to enjoy life more and it's like a mental training course. So, that doesn't always involve exercise, but I do think it's an important part of it to help mindful movement as well. And yoga just fits in really well with it because it's focused on the breath. So, if you can practice yoga in a mindful way, that's really getting all the benefits out of it. So, I suppose my ideal retreat that I'd like to go on and the ones I hope to teach are ones that involve both. So, they'll have maybe two yoga classes, but they'll have like a morning more active one and then a very relaxed evening one. So, you're not pushing yourself too much and throughout the day they'll have those mindful activities like meditation and doing things that are accessible for everyone. So, it's not overwhelming for people who've never practiced yoga before they can still get a lot out of it without feeling stressed. Because you had lots of anticipation, I can't pronounce that word, that's the opposite of what you want for the yoga retreat is to come out feeling stressed or, you know overwhelmed. So, yeah, mindfulness retreats I suppose are just about feeling good and coming out of a feeling better than when you went in, hopefully. Kerry Newsome: Yes, and I think sometimes you know, some of the retreats that I've been on. They've kind of been a little bit rigorous in the sense that the routines are quite strict and have to do this, and you have to do that. So, maybe I didn't make the right choices. So, it's good to learn about different types of retreats so, that people, when they're listening to programs like this, that they can make a wise choice because you're off often spending a reasonable amount of money and sometimes, I think people don't get everything they want out of it because the one they've chosen didn't kind of match up or fit their expectations. Emma Sothern: Yeah, so, I really agree with that because and that's where I go back to, like when you're researching a retreat, just write down what you need at that point in your life, what are you looking for and not what other people think you should be doing maybe and going on a really challenging thing. If what you need is to relax and if you're feeling exhausted, then these retreats that involve getting up at four in the morning or three in the morning for like a two-hour meditation might not be what you need. So, it's just important to kind of reflect on what you're looking for and not base it all around price as well, because you know, often the cheapest as well will be these very, no-frills saying that you might just feel exhausted after, and you might want to leave after two days. And sometimes like I've been on these sorts of retreats and I love them. I've got a lot out of them, but you just have to maybe assess where you are in your life and what might make you feel better at that point. Kerry Newsome: Yes, so if we were talking about a retreat in Vietnam and let's talk about typically ones that that you facilitate as in maybe a slight combination of mindfulness and yoga. So, what's a good amount of time to consider a retreat two days like what's a good amount of time to do one? Emma Sothern: I would say, so it's interesting because I actually did before our lockdown here. So, one night retreat the purpose of that was to kind of cater for people living here, maybe who had families and mightn't be able to take longer time away and to try to make it affordable. And some of the feedback from the participants was that they couldn't believe how much they could maybe change in 24 hours or how much they could get out of 24 hours. If you can offer them those tools, they can take with them afterwards. But they did say, you know, I would have loved an extra night because it does take a little bit of a while to switch off from whatever's going on. So, I would say minimum two nights, really. Especially if you've been traveling, you might even feel jet lagged when you come to a place still, and it takes you a little bit of time just to get used to it. You're bound to feel nervous maybe by meeting new people, especially if you've never been on a yoga retreat before, it can all feel a bit overwhelming. And like you say, if there's a routine, it takes some time to get used to that, maybe a different time of eating or getting up. And not only it might take you 24 hours, you can get used to that and then you don't want to be leaving straightaway and stressing about what you have to do next. So, I'd say very minimum, two days, even better if it's in your budget, maybe four days, if you can, to get really into it. Kerry Newsome: Now, I mean, where in the midst of COVID and we're all about social distancing and we're all about zoom and we're all about doing everything online. And I think it's great that you do offer classes and a guided meditation online. So, I'm going to put that link in the episode notes, but what I'm keen to talk to you about is, you know, coming through COVID, we're going to have retreats where people are coming together again. So, be it that there'll be the distancing, etc. and everyone will follow that rule. But talk to us a little bit about the coming together aspect; what is gained from being together as a group in a retreat rather than doing a zoom thing online or something like that? Talk to us about that togetherness. Emma Sothern: Sure, so a couple of aspects, I think first of all, I think there's something just really special about meditation together as a group. Like that's the one aspect of a yoga retreat that I just think you can't really mirror like meditation by yourself can be really difficult and really challenging. And it's a hard one to explain if you're not into things like energy and stuff. It's a very special energy that can happen when you're in a group just being silent together, not even feeling the need to talk, it can be quite transformative. And I know I find in my own retreats that even though we have amazing chats over the meals together, or swimming in the pool and you connect with people in a new way. Kind of the most powerful moments are when we're sitting together; just meditating in silence. Or when we had a silent breakfast one day and just that feeling of, okay, you can be around people and supporting each other, but you don't need to speak. It's something we're never used to in our usual lives. We're used to like filling in with small talk. So, there's something special about being quiet in a group setting together. And also, I suppose in the wake of COVID when we've been so isolated, I know we can connect online. It's just a really nice feeling to be able to come together in person and learning something like this, but especially if you're like an introvert like me, I suppose when you get released from lockdown, it can be a bit scary to go into the outside world straight away and suddenly by surrounded by people and noise, that's why going on a retreat and meeting people who are maybe equally a little bit shy by that sort of thing and making real connections with them can be very powerful. Like any retreats I've ever been on, even if it is one day and if it was five or six years ago across the world, I still connect with those people and we could still message each other. It's quite a special bond you can form very quickly. Which I think it's unlike any other bond I've ever made with someone, that just from, I suppose it's the stuff a form of healing, the transformative aspect. People are very open when they go on yoga retreats. They're very mindful of each other's kind of feelings and emotions and it's that special kind of environment. Kerry Newsome: It is, and I think you're right. I think that energy exchange between people in that open space, in that allowing space, in that space that is free, it's non-judgmental and I think just in a beautiful environment kind of takes all that armor off. I think everyone kind of relaxes a little bit more and is a bit more willing and open to share or, or not share as you say, in a silent environment. Talk to us a little bit about the kinds of people that are coming to Vietnam and enjoying these kinds of retreats. Emma Sothern: Yeah, so they'd be all different types. Like on my last retreat, I had a few people already living here. Kerry Newsome: They are ex-pats. Emma Sothern: Yeah, and there was one person who was a mom with three kids and traveling around. And I think she, so my post about the day before it started or something like that, she'd never been on a retreat before and decided it was perfect timing that she thought. She was stressed traveling with her kids and family, and she thought, oh, it's only one night I can give myself that gift. So, it was really lovely to see people who'd kind of practice yoga a little bit, who were used to maybe just doing drop-in classes and hadn't done a retreat before. So, that's the expats and then this lady who'd never done any sort of retreats, they decide they could kind of benefit from it. So, I suppose in retreats normally you might not get young backpacker types maybe because maybe it's not in the budget depending on the retreat. It's often people who have families who are just very busy, they feel they need this couple of days just to themselves to be able to recess and to offer more to their families or to their communities when they leave. But really all sorts of people are welcome and good retreats will foster all levels whether you're very experienced or whether you're totally new. Kerry Newsome: Because you know, coming from the commercial world. I often talk to people about a holiday obviously in Vietnam and when there's so much to do and see and experience in Vietnam, that can be quite tiring, you know. It can be kind of jumping on and off planes and getting around, etc. So, I've often suggested to people that they may consider a retreat, on the last couple of days, just to wind themselves down, get them geared to come home, you know, come home with some skills and some tools to use back in their work life and try and I guess help them manage stress moving forward and long-term. Because you don't want to kind of do all that, and then not come home with something, a gift, I guess from a retreat to you. You want to be able to use it in your day-to-day life, Emma Sothern: Yeah, that's such a good point and actually that's probably the people you'd see most and these retreats they maybe solo travelers. Because I know that's what I did myself the first time I went traveling myself, I knew I'd feel quite overwhelmed maybe coming to a new country and not knowing what was going on. So, I started it with a retreat just to ease into “ to shake off the kind of tiredness of traveling and to mentally prepare myself”. And I went back to that same retreat, like three months later, right before I went home just to, again, set myself up to feel calm and grounded going home. So, it's really good for people who maybe aren't used to traveling so much or feeling a bit nervous, or like you say, people who have a jam-packed schedule and they don't need to be going home still exhausted after all the activities, even if it's for those two nights, just to unwind a little bit before they go home. Kerry Newsome: And you know, it's a good point, you raise about the solo traveler too, because sometimes it's an opportunity to form friendships. I mean, you've talked about that yourself, that the bonds that you can make on those retreats are quite deep bonds I think, and I know myself I've done similar things. So, I think that's a really good point that for a solo traveler, if they want to look at a retreat to also meet people and to share with people, you know, a common passion in yoga and mindfulness. I want to talk to you a little bit more about Vietnam as the destination for these retreats. Tell us how important is the location or venue of a retreat. Emma Sothern: I would say very, very important because you could have an incredible teacher and all you hear is honking horns and it's I don't know a room that's totally sweltering. It's very hard to relax like, they can make it possible that the teacher is very good, but usually a bit of beautiful surroundings will go a long way. So, Vietnam has a lovely kind of luxurious aspect. I know it has a lot of beeping scooters as well. Kerry Newsome: Certainly, in the main cities. Emma Sothern: We have an awful lot of them, which is why many of these retreats are kind of built specifically that they are a little bit away from that, there'll be in kind of a right scene site or by a river by the beach, or I know there's a beautiful one of site in Hoi An and the Cham islands. And even for people living here that can feel like another universe because it's just this lovely little Island setting. So, I would say yeah, really important because you want to feel like you're going on holidays anyway, seeing somewhere you wouldn't be used to in your home life. Just making it easier for you to switch off. And because the good retreats we'll have a little bit of maybe a lot of relaxation, as well as the kind of activities you want it to be somewhere that you can really just relax enough, just going to bed. Maybe somewhere you can sit out and look at nature and do some writing and just give yourself some time you wouldn't have normally. Kerry Newsome: Yes, and you're right. Like you do need to be in some kind of idyllic location to do that, I think after a meal or after you finished a meditation, etc. Just to take it down and chill and all of that sort of stuff, you know. Emma Sothern: If you are getting up at three in the morning, you know, it helps to have a nice sunrise after your meditation. Kerry Newsome: You're absolutely right. Okay, so any words of advice or guidance you'd like to share with the listeners today just on selecting the right retreat and that kind of thing? Emma Sothern: Sure, I'd say like I said before, like focus on your reasons for doing it, what you need in the moment. And I know a lot of people might think maybe going on a retreat or booking a retreat for themselves might be maybe an overindulgence or a self-indulgence, whereas it's really one of the best ways you can spend your money rather than ticking off boxes of all the different sites you want to go see, you know, this is something that could really benefit your physical and mental health not just on your holiday but going home. So, it might seem like a bit of an investment, but you're doing just so much good for yourself just by taking this time away. And the fact that it's guided as well, so you could take yourself to a lovely Island yourself, or, you know, spend some time writing in your book and drinking cocktails, and that's lovely as well. But to have this kind of retreat escape where you don't have to think about anything, the activities are there for you to take or leave, and you have this ready community of people who are like-minded as well to support you through it. It's really, really a special thing to do for yourself. So, my main piece of advice I suppose is just go for it, don't think you don't deserve it because you really do, especially after this stressful time. Kerry Newsome: I'm going to finish on that. That's perfect advice, thanks again, Emma Sothern. Thank you, Emma Sothern, for being part of this series with me on what about Vietnam? I'm sure this is going to help a lot of us navigate the world of wellness and yoga retreats in Vietnam as there are certainly a lot of them. And I totally agree with you, we should just do it as we deserve some self-nurturing after the year it's been. Please check out the episode notes, but links to Emma Sothern's pages, where she announces her retreats and she also offers online yoga sessions, and you can join in those, no matter where you are. Stay tuned over the next few episodes as I bring you more in keeping with wellness and retreats in general in Vietnam. Please if you are on Apple, iTunes person, please rate and review the show as it really helps me reach more people. And of course, you can reach me through my Facebook page and website What about Vietnam. Please share, stay safe till next time. This show is still keeping it's main story line, but I am including the link to Emma's new retreat you might be interested in, details here - https://omwithemyoga.com/hoi-an-yoga-retreat/?mc_cid=d30c20d90f&mc_eid=5c941365ba

S4-16 Mystical Ninh Binh Ninh Binh - The mystical rival to Halong Bay Episode 16 S4-16 Mystical Ninh Binh 00:00 / 25:27 Ninh Binh stands out in more ways than one if you set your compass to the north of Vietnam. Located 60 miles south of Hanoi lies this magical, almost mystical province featuring mountainous peaks and a labrynth of waterways inviting you to explore its many viewpoints. Sharp limestone peaks, shoot up from the ground reminiscent of what you might see doing the same thing out of water, in Halong Bay. Which explains why they often refer to it as the Ha Long Bay on land. It is by all accounts Halong Bay’s mystical rival. My guest, Jack Taylor joins me on the show. His talents lie in the skilful way he has captured the essence of the region in his videos. Jack, an English teacher by profession has been travelling and living abroad for most of his adult life. You must check out his You Tube channel “I go cool places”. As you will see in Jack’s video of Ninh Binh the outstanding beauty and serenity are breathtaking. Jack does a great job in giving us some handy tips for staying in the region, what are the best times to visit and some of “The Must Do” things. I hope you enjoy the show. I wanted to wrap up the year of 2022 and go out with a bang, and I couldn’t think of a better way to do it. Wishing everyone a happy Christmas and safe and prosperous New Year. See you in 2023. Time Stamps:- 8.14 How best to describe Ninh Binh 9.45 How long should you stay 11.19 Must do things 15.16 The cave system 18.00 Foods unique to the region 19.57 How to spend your time wisely 20.10 The stand out experience 21.27 Best accommodation in nature Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

fdafa5c8-3d69-4212-9948-50f4089dab91Lockdown insights and upcoming travel advice What About Vietnam - Series 3 - 11 Saigon’s Covid recovery and tourism outlook 2022 [00:00:35] Kerry Newsome: Xin chào . Welcome to What About Vietnam . In today's episode, we're going to be talking to Michael Tatarski in Ho Chi Minh City. Michael is editor-in-chief of Saigoneer, the Vietnamese culture and history website, and author of the Vietnam weekly newsletter. Michael has been instrumental in keeping many of us informed about the COVID spread in Vietnam and just the devastation it has caused in Saigon in particular. I feel very privileged to have him on to give us some local insights but also to give us some insights into just how it has affected the population of Saigon. What the COVID lockdown restrictions have actually meant at a street level and what that's been like to not leave your building and things like that. The other reason I'm really glad to have him on to talk about this in an authority way is because I think we're going to be drawing some comparisons in years to come from episodes like this, recording this in real-time. This is October 2021. I think we're going to be looking at Vietnam in new lights and new ways in years to come when we will be able, say, especially for people like myself who can draw history in various visits back and forth over the last 14 years, just to compare changes, new initiatives, things that have eventuated due to the pandemic, good and bad. It's great to have Michael on. I hope you enjoy this episode and can take on the information, knowing that the lockdown restrictions are going to be easing on the first of October. This episode will be going up that week. Let's hope. Let's cross fingers that Vietnam is starting to turn a corner and seeing some light on the other side for travelers. Please welcome Michael to the program. [music] [00:02:59] Kerry Newsome: Michael, it's great to have you on the show. [00:03:01] Michael Tatarski: Sure, no problem. [00:03:02] Kerry Newsome: How are you doing? [00:03:04] Michael Tatarski: Yes, doing all right. We're well over three months, I think, about three and a half months of hard lockdown here in Ho Chi Minh City. We'll get into this more. It looks like some relief is finally on the horizon on Friday. I don't know exactly when this will come out, but Friday, October 1st looks like there's going to be big changes finally. [chuckles] [00:03:23] Kerry Newsome: Maybe if you could be descriptive to my listeners. Just talking about what it's been like. You are living in Saigon, working in Saigon. You're right in the thick of it. Maybe talk to us a little bit about what the last 90 days and Saigon's been like. [00:03:43] Michael Tatarski: Sure. With the COVID, I've been lucky now. I'm lucky. I've had steady work. I'm able to work from home comfortably, don't have to worry about how am I going to pay for my next meal and that kind of stuff. There are certainly those comforts, but it's been tough. There's no other way to put it. The strict lockdown began. I wouldn't say it was July 9th, but early July. These rules that are called Directive 16 means only being able to go out for essential items and things like that, which we had for a period in 2020 in March and April, really early in the pandemic. You were still able to exercise outside and that sort of thing. Granted, the case numbers were in the hundreds [00:04:30] Kerry Newsome: Straight and low. Yes. [00:04:31] Michael Tatarski: Yes. Here in Ho Chi Minh City, there was this outbreak really exploded. We were hitting 8,000, 9,000 cases a day, which for Vietnam is a lot, to put it mildly. That went into effect. They banned all food delivery as well and also all outdoor exercise, which caught a lot of people by surprise. That meant cooking every meal for about three months. They did relax food delivery a couple of weeks ago, which was really, really nice. It's good for businesses to finally get some income again and great for people to not have to cook all the time. [chuckles] Then, not being able to go outside. I know some of the international coverage has been a little maybe overdone a bit. A month ago, they did bring in the military or some elements of it to support the lockdown when the situation became really extreme in the public health sense. The hospital system was on the verge of collapse. Almost 300 deaths a day just in the city. They had to build almost 20 field hospitals to handle all the cases. It was an absolute crisis. I would have to say probably the worst situation to hit the city since the war ended at least in 30 years or something like that. There's no doubt about it. It was extremely serious even with the military coming in. Soldiers at the corner of your street, making sure you didn't leave the house. You could, at least, walk outside your gate. There was nowhere to go. Everything was closed. You really shouldn't have been out on the streets. It wasn't safe. The virus was-- it remains really widespread. Vaccination rates are higher now, thankfully. It's less of a risk if you're vaccinated to be out. Yes, just week after week of just being at home, [chuckles] which [crosstalk] if you like me, and you can work from home, it is frustrating, but you'll get by. For a lot of people, which I know we'll get to, it's absolutely devastating to go that long without work. [00:06:35] Kerry Newsome: Yes, absolutely. [00:06:37] Michael Tatarski: Food supplies were a real issue for a lot of people. Especially, for a long time in lockdown, we couldn't even go grocery shopping. You had to get it delivered. Some of that was through a government system. Some of it was through privately-owned supermarkets that eventually got their own systems figured out. A lot of people are still going hungry. Food supply has been a real problem. [00:07:01] Kerry Newsome: Yes. The government did step in there for a bit and was handing out small sums of money to the poor so that they could get a basic meal because, I guess, for people listening, Saigon is so densely populated. The food industry or the street food industry is huge. We, you and I, were laughing before about having to cook meals. It's a city where you don't cook yourself that often because it's often cheaper to eat out. All of those very small vendors lost their patronage. They packed up their stuff and had nowhere to go. They were trying to leave the city and, I think, take some comfort by heading home to the rural areas where the virus wasn't. Yes, just refuge at home, I think, until it all went away. [00:08:03] Michael Tatarski: Yes, it's important. If people aren't familiar with the cities now that-- They say the population is around 9,000,000 or 10,000,000, but I think it's widely assumed that that's off by several million potentially. There's a huge population of migrant workers. People have moved here. This is the economic engine of the country, this and a couple of neighboring provinces. A huge draw from provinces where there's a less economic activity and less development. A lot of these workers, you mentioned, cooking. It's not that they're not able to cook. They can't. They live in tiny shared homes or tenement buildings that don't have kitchens or very limited kitchens. [00:08:42] Kerry Newsome: Facilities, yes, or gas. Yes [00:08:46] Michael Tatarski: Their job is working at a construction site or something like that. When that all gets shut down, that's all there is for them. [music] I understood the hospital system, obviously, was not able to cope. I've got some other friends in Saigon. They were talking about that hotels were commissioned. Some officers were commissioned to put together makeshift hospital rooms to cater to some of the patients. They were selling oxygen and things like that. That was a priority for people. Did you hear similar? [00:09:36] Michael Tatarski: Yes. From the start of the pandemic, as I'm sure you've discussed here, Vietnam took a really aggressive reaction. [crosstalk] [00:09:44] Kerry Newsome: Yes, I was there in March 2020. [00:09:47] Michael Tatarski: Oh right. For most of us- [00:09:48] Kerry Newsome: Just better. [00:09:49] Michael Tatarski: -that worked really well. For most of the first 18 months of the pandemic, we live life shockingly normally compared to a lot of other countries. One of the reasons, I think, or at least it's believed the government reacted like this is because they knew the health system couldn't handle a huge outbreak. We saw that in Ho Chi Minh City. Yes, they also converted a couple of huge empty apartment complexes into gigantic field hospitals with thousands of rooms. I do want to clarify not all of those rooms were really sick people. Some of them actually were asymptomatic. They eventually changed to letting those people stay at home, which took some pressure off. Yes, it was an all-hands-on-deck. Hanoi sent in a lot of doctors and medical workers. Other provinces did as well. The military sent in some doctors and health reinforcements for lack of a better word. Yes, it was a national effort and also showed that if something like this had happened in numerous provinces, it would have been a really, really terrible situation. It is already, but I don't even want to think about what that would have been like. [00:11:02] Kerry Newsome: Yes. You're right. I think the industry and the manufacturing side of things was something that the government was particularly concerned about because some of those places have workers of tens of thousands. I hear also that for their safety, they put together makeshift tents and things like that to actually keep them on the premises to try and get them vaccinated. Slowly but surely, I think that's a strong government push, or that's what I'm hearing anyway, so that the wheels of the engine of the country can keep turning. [00:11:45] Michael Tatarski: Yes. This was initially in the north because of this outbreak, we've almost forgotten it at this point, it first exploded into a few northern provinces way back in May, especially a couple next to Hanoi with a lot of Samsung factories and other major electronics manufacturers. Yes, they kind of started this. Not kind of, they did start this three on the spot system or also, some people call it, a bubble where factories would set up, yes, living quarters like tents and spare warehouses or whatever so that employees could live, work and also eat on-site without leaving. Then, they also did that down here, especially in Binh Duong and Dong Nai, which are huge industrial hubs. Yes, the idea was to keep manufacturing going. That worked for some places, but it didn't work for a lot. If a case got into a factory, that's like the perfect setting for Delta to spread. Hundreds or thousands of people close together. Also, it's expensive, the house. A lot of them would read half capacity or something. Still, if you need to feed 300 people three meals a day and also house them in addition to maintaining operations. That's a lot of money. [00:13:03] Kerry Newsome: Yes. Absolutely. [00:13:04] Michael Tatarski: I know factories that tried it and gave up. Others just didn't even try to do it because they knew it was going to be too difficult. Some of that is relaxing now because other provinces are also starting to come out of lockdown as well. Yes, it was an interesting system, worked for some, didn't work for others. [chuckles] Again, I think they obviously couldn't just shut everything down because that would have been economically disastrous. [music] [00:13:34] Kerry Newsome: It also took a serious toll on the ex-pat population for a number of reasons around getting access to the vaccine or getting the vaccine or trying to get flights out. I know several Australians that have cost them much more than you would normally pay to actually get out and get back. Then, they were stuck in the lockdown so severely in Saigon that literally they had to get a PCR test to get on the plane. Then, they couldn't get past the police that had cordoned off the area to get them through. Then, they were worried about how they're going to get a Grab car or whatever to the actual airport. It's been quite stressful, I think, on lots of levels for the general population. [00:14:28] Michael Tatarski: Yes. I know a lot of people who left, some permanently, some temporarily. My partner is American. We talked about it a lot. We have dogs. We would have wanted to bring them with us. It's really difficult to bring them into the US. It takes a few months of paperwork. We stayed. Granted, the US has gone downhill again. When it looked like things were getting better there, there was a lot of appeal, especially in the early days of this outbreak when the vaccine was almost not existed. National rates nationally are still extremely low. It's only around 8% of the entire country is fully vaccinated. Here in Ho Chi Minh City, they've funneled supply here because of the outbreak. It's just such an important economic and population center. That's a lot better. I'm fully vaccinated luckily. That fear of not being vaccinated has waned. Certainly, a lot of people left. If you could get out and go somewhere more comfortable, then it definitely made sense. [00:15:32] Kerry Newsome: Sure. Just leading into now the weekend talk from the government of Vietnam about lessening the restrictions coming up to 1st October. [music] [00:15:53] Kerry Newsome: For us, sitting in the travel industry and watching from the grandstands, we see this as a positive sign. We'll get on to talk about Phu Quoc in a bit. How do you see 1st October restrictions lessening? What will it mean for you? [00:16:14] Michael Tatarski: Well, here in Ho Chi Minh City, much to my surprise, it seems like it's going to mean a lot. I've been given how conservative the restrictions have been thus far. I wasn't expecting anything too dramatic. It's not confirmed yet. They're still working on the final policy. It looks like for Ho Chi Minh City, they're going to allow if you're fully or partially vaccinated, or if you've recovered from COVID. Within the last six weeks, I think, you'll basically be able to move around the city as you wish. They're removing checkpoints in between districts and neighborhoods. You can go back to supermarkets, convenience stores. You can get a haircut. It sounds like you'll be able to exercise outside in quite large numbers if everyone is vaccinated. That really surprises me. [00:17:01] Kerry Newsome: Affecting all districts? [00:17:02] Michael Tatarski: Yes. I think there will still be some areas. Red zones are still going to be an issue potentially. As far as I know, this is city-wide. Weddings and funerals can happen again with set capacity. A lot of businesses will still be closed like no in-person dining, no cinemas, no karaoke, no massage, parlors, that kind of thing. [00:17:25] Kerry Newsome: No bars. [00:17:26] Michael Tatarski: Yes, no bars. I think it also says street vendors are still going to be banned. That's a real shame. Again, those people are among the most impacted [crosstalk] [00:17:35] Kerry Newsome: Markets? [00:17:37] Michael Tatarski: I think markets are supposed to reopen as well, but a lot of it is going to be probably just like see what the regulation is. Then, there's been a lot of regulations during this lockdown that have been really unclear initially. Then, they gradually get clarified. I'm very excited to be able to exercise out. I'm a pretty avid cyclist. I've got an indoor trainer luckily, but that's not the same as riding outside. [00:18:06] Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. [00:18:07] Michael Tatarski: Yes. It looks like a lot could change. Of course, the economic damage is still going to be immense. Fully vaccinated rates for the city are still relatively low. A lot of businesses are still-- it's still going to be expensive to go back to work. Food, ingredient prices are high because there's been a lot of shipping issues between provinces. [00:18:26] Kerry Newsome: Yes. I was going to ask about that because food supply-- [00:18:27] Michael Tatarski: Also as we said, a lot of people left. We don't even know how many people left. Presumably, many tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands. A lot of those individuals are the labor force of the city. Some of them can't come back yet because there are still travel restrictions or a lot might not want to. Unless they have a guaranteed job, maybe they would. It's going to be pretty interesting to see. Also, what business has survived? Being closed for three, four, five months. Not everyone obviously has the liquidity to just sit there with no business for that amount of time. [00:19:09] Kerry Newsome: Yes, absolutely. I'll be interested to just see what the hotel industry does. All of those empty hotels with hotel staff, did those hotel staffs go back home, as I said, to those rural areas and wait it out? Are they going to have the manpower to put back into it? [00:19:33] Michael Tatarski: Sure. Well, of course, even before this, obviously, as you know, there was no international tourism anyway. Certainly, the hotel is more focused on the international market. Everyone had to pivot by this point to some extent. This was obviously just more pain on top of that. [music] [00:19:54] Michael Tatarski: For travel, honestly, it's going to be tough. I see that as being pretty low down the totem pole of priorities, certainly for here. We'll get to this, the discussions of Phu Quoc doing some sort of opening for internationally. I'm sure there are closed doors discussions. Publicly, there's still no discussion whatsoever presuming any normal inbound, international flights whether for business or even just citizens wanting to return to the country. It's still these, sometimes, government-arranged repatriation flights although those haven't happened in a while or these charter flights where it's everything's booked and approved in advance. It's really expensive. You have to do quarantine. In terms of travel, it still seems like that's going to be a long, long ways off. Domestic travel is going to be an issue as well just because the rest of the country is so unvaccinated, not by choice because [crosstalk] [00:20:53] Kerry Newsome: Yes, that's what I was going to say. [00:20:57] Michael Tatarski: There's definitely a push from domestic travel companies and domestic airlines and domestic hotels because everyone's flat on their back right now financially. They're really pushing to try to get some sort of green pass system set up for domestic travel which would help. That's, again, only 8% of the population right now. It's a pretty limited pool to work with. Yes. Just getting domestic because what happens if you're vaccinated, you can still be carrying the virus? What happens if a group of vaccinated visitors from Ho Chi Minh City go to Lao Cai province or something where it's much less vaccinated. Then, the outbreak starts there. Obviously, that's what officials are thinking about. This reopening is-- it's going to be really interesting to see what happens because presumably, cases here in the city will rise when they reopen just because there's going to be more interaction between people. How do they react to that? It's interesting watching Singapore, which is very heavily vaccinated now. They're going back into some restrictions with their cases increasing. I don't know. We have to see. There's been a lot of talks recently about living with the virus. We don't know what that's going to mean in practice. There will be cases. What happens when that does happen? [music] [00:22:20] Kerry Newsome: If I talk to people in the UK and some parts of Europe that are vagrantly traveling and getting about the world, they're still getting thousands of cases a day. [00:22:33] Michael Tatarski: Sure, sure. [00:22:34] Kerry Newsome: Freedom day for them wasn't freedom from the actual virus. It was just freedom to move around and take the risk. I was talking to one journalist the other day. He was saying that it doesn't even appear in the news in the UK anymore. They don't publish all the numbers, the caseload, or anything. He said, "Everything from my daughter's birthday party where someone rang us up afterward and said, "Oh, look. One kid tested positive after the party." We don't think it's going to be a problem. She's going to get a bit of a sniffle." They're just calling it a bad flu rather than a deadly disease now. I wonder whether or not in Australia is heading in the same direction, whether or not we'll see the same things because you've got major airlines that are sitting around, going broke if we don't get the domestic travel going again in Vietnam. I think Vietnam will need to test it internally to see how it goes before there's any sign of international. It's got to start somewhere. You're going to be coming up to the wet season in the north and the cold in January, February. These next three to six months are going to be really interesting to see. [00:24:11] Michael Tatarski: Yes. It's going to be so regionally varied even within Vietnam because we're still averaging around 5,000 cases a day. The number of severe cases and deaths has dropped. Those are the really key indicators. By pure numbers, we're still having a ton of cases. I think most days, the city accounts for over half of all cases in the country, that detected cases. We don't always know what testing is going on in all the provinces. We're going to be living with quote "the virus" unquote, with that many cases. Hanoi had no cases in the last 24 hours. If they were to get to 5,000 cases, that would be unthinkable compared to where they're at right now. We don't even know what it's going to be like from region to region within the country. [00:24:55] Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. It may mean that the travel regions will stay within-- In other words, you might fly from Hanoi to Đồng Hới or somewhere like that, but you won't go any further south right, or you might fly to Danang and stay in central and north. [music] [00:25:24] Kerry Newsome: I don't know. Is there a big appetite for travel by people in Saigon? Do people want to get back out there and have a holiday? [00:25:37] Michael Tatarski: Yes. People in my social circles certainly do. I'm pretty on the fence about it for the foreseeable future. Not that I'm worried about getting sick particularly, but just knowing that other provinces are far less vaccinated. Yes, certainly. I don't know about the average person. Of course, there's got to be some level of pent-up demand. We had a national holiday at the start of the month that we couldn't do anything for it. We have a limited number of national holidays. Usually, when they happen, people like to do some sort of-- even if it's just going to [unintelligible 00:26:18] from Ho Chi Minh City, just a couple hours away, something to get out of the city. Or if you're in Hanoi, the same thing. People aren't able to do that. There definitely will be some pent-up to me. Also, a lot of people are just going to want to go see their family. [music] [00:26:38] Kerry Newsome: They're painting Phu Quoc island as the sandbox for Vietnam. I've had lots of different interviews with a range of different people. There's really a mixed bag on whether or not it's going to take off. It's already been pushed back from October to November. What I know about the island, it's about 160,000 people. I've only been twice for very short visits. Its medical situation is not expansive. I don't know. Do you think it's going to come off? [00:27:23] Michael Tatarski: At this point, I think it will happen simply because they say it's going to happen. The prime minister himself has given it the green light. I think it has to happen just because the highest levels of government have said, "We need this. This is going to be a thing." This is not my area of expertise. I can't see it being a huge success. I've seen some articles where they say they're expecting tens of thousands of visitors a month. I don't know if that includes domestic because then maybe. I can't see this having a huge amount of appeal for a lot of international visitors having to do pay for a charter flight. I think the system is largely you just stay at the resort that you go to and don't leave. [00:28:10] Kerry Newsome: Yes. That's right. [00:28:12] Michael Tatarski: Of course, for some people, that kind of trip may have appeal, but I think a lot of westerners who come to Vietnam wants to see some of the countries as well or at least-- even if it's a tacky night market tour or something like that, is at least getting you out of the resort and eating some semblance of local food. If you can't do any of that, I don't really know who's going to be jumping out, really wanted to do that. Also, some of this seems to be pitched as a huge benefit for the local economy. If you're just staying at, whatever, [unintelligible 00:28:47] for seven days, that's not-- That'll help the people working for the resort, but the local economy is not really going to get much of a boost from that at all. [00:28:57] Kerry Newsome: Yes. It's a difficult one. I think it's a test case that they want to exercise to just see the manpower handling. I heard some numbers posed that might start at maybe 2,000 to 3,000 coming in. Russia is a country, in particular, that is very keen on the island and fancy island, very popular. It's got great water sports with sailing and diving and things like that. The Vinpearl group is very big there. It's got a mini Venice with cable cars. It's nothing like Vietnam. [00:29:46] Michael Tatarski: No. [00:29:48] Kerry Newsome: It's out there. As you say, I think because the prime minister has put that out there, I think it's probably going to happen in a fashion. How well or how successful it is? It's time to come. I think there is an aim for the country to try and get on top of things for Tet because as you know, at Tet, the country just moves around in big numbers because they're all going home. I can see that there'll be a really big push. That's February. What have we got? October, November, December, January. We've got five months to for Vietnam to-- [00:30:35] Michael Tatarski: Yes. Tet's obviously going to be huge. Tet, this year or earlier this year, there were a couple of small flare-ups happening at the time. A lot of people still traveled, but a lot of people actually canceled their trips. If somebody goes two years without being able to do something for Tet, that's going to be a really big deal. Again, I don't mean, even traveling for fun, that's one time of the year that lots of families get together, multiple generations. It's really, really important. Yes, it's like missing Christmas or something like that in the West. [music] [00:31:16] Michael Tatarski: Yes. Phu Quoc is interesting. You can definitely tell there's something of a regional-- arms race isn't a good phrase but just like tourism competition. Vietnam, Indonesia, everybody is now saying that Thailand has the Phuket Sandbox, which, I don't follow closely, but I believe, has been a bit of a mixed bag in terms of [crosstalk] [00:31:36] Kerry Newsome: It hasn't gone well either. Yes, exactly. [00:31:39] Michael Tatarski: But they all want to try. You see Bali, name a lot as well. I'm sure there are other places that I'm missing. Nobody wants to be last to get something like that off the ground I guess even if it has a pretty minimal impact. Yes. Obviously, the main reason Phu Quoc was pushed back is because, again, vaccine supply and who knows if they'll be able to get there by November. You could definitely see that being pushed again. I do see it happening again just because there's been so much high-level discussion. Now, there's talk of Khanh Hoa province [unintelligible 00:32:12] is also starting to talk about this as well, similar coming in on shutter flights and just staying sequestered at a resort. You mentioned Russia. I guess that does make sense as a market because I think that's a-- probably has a lot of appeals go to the beach for seven days and just sit in one place. [chuckles] Again, that can certainly be appealing, but a lot of people are also going to be put off by, you know what I mean, I can't leave the resort even to have a meal outside or something like that. Why would I spend, whatever, thousands of dollars [crosstalk]-- [00:32:46] Kerry Newsome: And not be able to go to the mainland to see the rest of Vietnam. The rest of Vietnam [unintelligible 00:32:54] . Yes. [00:32:54] Michael Tatarski: Yes. Something will definitely happen. I will be curious to see what they do with domestic tourism at the same time. Yes, Phu Quoc-- two of the most powerful domestic tourism real estate companies have huge properties there as you mentioned. I'm sure they're pushing really hard because they have thousands of rooms that have been sitting empty. [music] [00:33:18] Kerry Newsome: I have a feeling that Hoi An and Danang will also find themselves wanting to trial something because the Old Town is just a ghost town at the moment. [00:33:28] Michael Tatarski: Yes. I like Danang a lot. It's an important, domestic tourism destination, but has really gotten big, I know, with Korean visitors and probably Japanese visitors as well in recent years so that that would make sense for them to want to try something similar as well. If they stick with the resort set up, there's a ton of huge resorts there so that that could work. Again, who's going to want to-- [chuckles] I can see them targeting individual-- [chuckles] I don't know, not to stereotype, but a lot of Koreans go to visit Danang to play golf. If it was like you can stay at their resort and just play golf and that's it. I'm sure a lot of people probably go for that actually. It's the pretty limited economic impact on the broader city that needs to be considered. [00:34:19] Kerry Newsome: Yes. It might be dolly steps in the whole country opening up. It might be these little pockets of experiences that-- [00:34:33] Michael Tatarski: I can't really see just your average tourist being able to get on a plane, a normal flight to Vietnam, and then being able to travel as they please until the second half of 2022, maybe later in that time period. Again, we don't even know when people are going to be able to come back just to live here or to do business here. Yes, it's going to be a while I would think. [music] [00:35:02] Kerry Newsome: You answered my last question, Michael. It was going to be [laughs] when do you think or you feel like Vietnam will be open to-- because I used to spend two or three months a year in Vietnam and in various times during the year. I was there in March. I got out just in time before Australia shut the doors. I haven't been back since 2020. It's very difficult. As you say, it's going to be a serious consideration for highly vaccinated countries to consider coming to a low vaccinated country. Then, Vietnam, will they review their visa requirements? There could be a whole change in just what boxes you've got a tick- [00:35:57] Michael Tatarski: Yes. We don't know what-- [00:35:58] Kerry Newsome: -to get in. [00:36:00] Michael Tatarski: Yes. I think the government has said that they're aiming to fully vaccinate 70% of the population by March or April of next year. [00:36:11] Kerry Newsome: That's a big number. [00:36:12] Michael Tatarski: Yes, which is a long ways off. It's a lot of people. There's not really vaccine. There's some vaccine hesitancy. It's not like you have in the US or somewhere like that. I think if they have the supply, they should be able to hit those numbers, but-- [00:36:26] Kerry Newsome: It'll be getting to some of them in the rural areas will be the tough, tough ones. Yes. [00:36:30] Michael Tatarski: Yes. I don't think they're going to want anyone from elsewhere moving around the country freely before they at least said that. Of course, our understanding of the virus could change. The new variants could still break out for all we know. A lot can certainly happen. Given that timeline, I can't see any free travel happening until easily the second half of the next year. [00:36:59] Kerry Newsome: Well, that wasn't the best note to finish on. [laughter] [00:37:04] Michael Tatarski: Yes, unfortunately. [00:37:05] Kerry Newsome: But it might be the reality that we need to face in Vietnam at the moment. I certainly appreciate where you're sitting in the thick of it. When you're just going to be able to open up, take your dogs out and go for a run, it must be wonderful to be able to do that. I just think of all those restaurants and bars and just that the buzz of that city to be closed, just must be an eyesore. I just can't imagine it. I see the photo, just can't imagine it. [00:37:37] Michael Tatarski: Yes. Well, to be honest, I've only seen photos recently. I haven't left my neighborhood in almost three months. I think on Friday or early next week, I'll probably just do a long drive assuming that that is allowed a long drive around the city just to see what it looks like because there's a lot of places I haven't seen in months, which is quite strange to say out loud. [00:38:01] Kerry Newsome: Yes, sure. Look, Michael. I really appreciate you coming on the program and just great to get your insights into how things have been, where we're at and what the future holds for travelers. We do want to come back. It's a great country. There's so much to see and do. I think [crosstalk]-- Yes. We just want it to be a healthy country where it feels safe to do so. [00:38:29] Michael Tatarski: Yes. We're all hoping for that [chuckles] at this stage. [00:38:33] Kerry Newsome: Okay, Michael. Thanks again. [00:38:34] Michael Tatarski: Thank you. [00:38:36] Outro: Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What About Vietnam.