f95cbcc0-460f-45ef-a101-7e7674afa267Unrivaled golfing experiences and locations Greg Norman isn't the only one raving about golf in Vietnam Episode 11 Greg Norman isn't the only one raving about golf in Vietnam 00:00 / 50:30 Vietnam is well known for its magnificent natural beauty, culture, great food and tropical climate. However, it is fast becoming better known to golfers for its unrivaled golfing experiences and locations. Part of that is due to the promotional work of Greg Norman - Vietnam Tourism Ambassador. With Norman’s global presence, vast background in golf, business and experience designing and building some of the top resort golf courses in Vietnam and around the world, he was identified by the Vietnam Ministry as the ideal candidate to help the country capitalize on the influx of international tourists looking to experience first class golf resorts in one of the most unique and visually stunning destinations in the world. Now don't get too excited ! We don't have Greg on the show. Better still, we have Chrissy Hordern, a strong, avid player who is accustom to taking groups all over the world including the US Masters, Ireland, and Europe. You will love the detail she will give you to the courses she has played. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

3f489e6a-8dfa-44cc-825b-69aabdfd9d88Why you should do more than one cooking class Cooking classes in Vietnam - why you should do more than one Episode 23 Cooking classes in Vietnam - why you should do more than one 00:00 / 42:20 A cooking class is a must to include in your tour of Vietnam. Not every country offers up Cooking Classes like they do in Vietnam. Cooking classes in Vietnam have a wide range of offerings including seafood, vegan and vegetarian, and will take you on a journey from farm to market, to table. Even, if you don't like to cook, you will find out WHY food tastes so good in Vietnam and what impact the region has on what you are eating. Why do just one class, when each area offers up something different in their cuisine? Vietnamese have a love affair with food and you will too after you do a cooking class. This is why I am excited about my guest today. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S4-13 Citizen 44 podswap Podswap - Mark Arinsberg interviews Kerry Episode 13 S4-13 Citizen 44 podswap 00:00 / 1:03:12 This show is what we call a Podswap, and it's a great one with Mark Arinsberg from Citizen 44. Mark has kindly allowed me to share the interview with you. I am the guest this time, and in this show I talk freely about how the podcast helped me navigate through Covid in Australia, and my recent trip. Hopefully there are some good takeaways that will help guide your future travels. Time stamps to help you navigate some of the main topics you may find interesting. There will be no transcript with this episode. • 
03.37 - Kerry's version of Hoi An as her location for the interview • 04.40 - Kerry talks about her role in Vietnam • 07.17 - Kerry and Mark talk about the affects of Covid 2020-2021 • 11.19 - Why Mark loves Vietnam • 12.52 - What makes Vietnam such a value for money holiday location? • 14.35 - Mark talks food and how incredible the taste and price is! • 16.00 - Kerry advises how best to take advantage of the Visa situation • 21.23 - Mark talks about Vietnam as a growing economy • 24.48 - Kerry's dentistry story Vietnam • 30.48 - How the podcast kept Kerry going through Covid • 34.36 - Mark's contrasting experience of Covid versus his family in the US • 36.26 - Kerry talks about the growing ties between Australia and Vietnam • 41.47 - Kerry's foodie experiences this trip in Saigon • 46.08 - Mark interviews his girlfriend and they discuss how going vegan saved a mans life. You can find more of Marks shows here -
 https://markarinsberg.substack.com/ You can find Mark's books to purchase here - http://www.markarinsberg.com/ Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

3f0e6c92-f3f3-4950-8fa3-5b1ae46c7755Five golden rules on getting the best accommodation Accommodation in Vietnam Episode 5 S1-05 Accommodation 00:00 / 22:51 It's time to book accommodation. This is the exciting part of trip planning because if you are like me, this is when you really feel like "THIS IS REALLY GOING TO HAPPEN". I'm going! Listen up to my 5 golden rules - to ensure you get the type of stay, and value for money you are always hearing about in Vietnam. It's available. Let me show you where. It's not always written in the detail, or reviews of the hotel you are viewing. You take those on face value. The question is:- Does it fit that picture in your head of your perfect stay? Let me give you my hard-earned truths about finding the right kind of accommodation for your visit. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S5-E17 - Motorbike riding tips in Vietnam S5-E17 – Motorbike riding in Vietnam: Safety, local tips and Epic Adventures Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome back to the What About Vietnam podcast. I'm thrilled to have you join me today. Before we jump into this episode, I wanted to address a new connectivity feature that initially I was really excited about because it opened up the door for what I thought would be a great way for us to interact more. However, it's not quite working out as I'd hoped. You may see at the beginning of the show notes in the podcast channel that you're listening from some words that say text me a message. It's a great idea. Don't get me wrong. I love hearing from you. And, you know, whether that's your thoughts on the episodes, some questions, messages of appreciation, you know, I just, I just love the feedback. It's really great. However, I feel it remiss of me to, A, not thank you for them, but to be not be able to respond directly to you. So if you have sent me a question and I've got lots and you haven't heard from me, there's a really good reason why I actually don't have the ability in the technology to respond to you. They kind of expect that you would or I would answer the questions in the form of a show and there's just kind of too many and I just think it's just too personal not to do it that way. So I wanted to alert you to the fact that if you do send me a message through that connection option, I'm not going to be able to respond to you directly. So, if you do have a question, and it is time sensitive, or you want to send me any kind of message, can I suggest the following two ways? One, send me an email to whataboutvietnamatgmail.com. That is the email address that I have the most constant access to, and I will aim to get back to you ASAP. Secondly, if you go to the website for the podcast, which is whataboutvietnam.com, if you scroll right to the bottom, there is a chance for you to leave a voice message. Now, in that voice message, I can respond to you equally with a response in voice. So if you want a quick response, that's your next best way. But I just wanted to get this into the show, make you aware of this as it really is becoming problematic. And I've just got too many and I can't kind of go naming people and answering each question. That's just a little bit silly. So if you have sent me a text message before and you're waiting on a message back as a response, I'm so sorry. I cannot do that. But if you want to send the question again, I'd be more than happy to answer. Just in the lead up to this episode, I thought I'd give you a little bit of context. Firstly, I've asked Ben Mitchell to come back on the show. I was able to have the opportunity to talk with him while I was in Fong Nah, and we were able to sit down and have a really frank and open discussion around motorbikes and travel around Vietnam on a motorbike. And, you know, for people who are thinking to come to Vietnam and have that experience, I just think this is one for you. This is one that I really encourage you to listen to, to give you some real context of what that actually would mean for you as you visit this amazing country, which as he calls it, a motorbike nation. In addition to having been on the show, I got the opportunity to ask my friend Chris Pantelli to come on. And his story is even more fresh, I guess, in my mind and certainly in his, as I got to share the story after he just finished a five-day trip in northern Vietnam in the Yen Bai province. Now, if you've been listening to my shows, you would have heard me put up a show about Yen Bai, but a totally different experience to the motorbike journey off-road and on-road that Chris Pantelli and his son did together in April of this year. So, stick with us, folks. It's a really meaty show. It's got a lot of great tips and hints. I'm going to put all the links to some of the companies that are mentioned, so you can go there, check them out for yourself and, you know, enjoy Vietnam if you're a motorbike rider, but don't come to Vietnam for the first time or any time if you're not an experienced rider and just jump on the bike. It's better to get on the back of someone else and let them take you around rather than take that risk yourself. It's just not the country to learn how to ride, it's the country to experience as an experienced rider. Anyway, let's jump into the show and let's say hello to Ben. Kerry Newsome: Hi, Ben. How you doing? Ben Mitchell: I'm good. Hi, Kerry. Kerry Newsome: What are we going to be talking about today? Motorbikes. Ben Mitchell: Motorbike, motorbike travel, motorbike tourism in Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: Do you know what? I reckon that's a really good topic to talk about as it comes up a lot. And, you know, there's some crazy things that happen with motorbikes. Ben Mitchell: Yeah, well, it's a motorbike nation, the Vietnam The people of Vietnam are all on a motorbike. You can put anything on a motorbike. You can put a large amount of people on a motorbike. As you travel through Vietnam, you'll see motorbikes being used in all sorts of different ways. As far as travelling in Vietnam by motorbike, it's very, very exhilarating. It's a great way to see the country. Kerry Newsome: All right. So let's let's dig a bit deeper into the different ways you can do that. And what do you need to know up front before you make that decision to ride a motorbike as part of your trip or part of your travel plan in Vietnam? Ben Mitchell: Well, there'll be many different ways that you could experience Vietnam involving motorbikes, I think the first thing we should talk about is safety. And yes, the elephant in the room, there is motorbike accidents in Vietnam. That is an issue. So, you know, if you're going to ride a motorbike in Vietnam, it's good to be able to ride a motorbike. Kerry Newsome: And can I interject and just say, That when you say you need to be able to ride a motorbike, do you mean that in the country you come from, you have ridden a motorbike and you have a motorbike licence? Is that what you mean? Ben Mitchell: I reckon that would be a very good start. Kerry Newsome: Right. A very good start or a minimum standard, Ben? Ben Mitchell: Yeah, minimum standard. I think learning to ride a motorbike in Vietnam is fraught with danger. Yeah. I think Kerry Newsome: I think it's probably not a good idea if I'm going to be… Let's say that really out loud because I hear a lot of people who decide to come to Vietnam for the very first time and get on a bike and think this is just easy peasy and it's not. Let alone the traffic, just learning to ride a bike. Ben Mitchell: I've been working in tourism for 15, 14 years here in Vietnam. And how many times I've heard, yeah, my first motorbike experience was riding out of Saigon or riding out of Hanoi on a motorbike I just bought earlier that day and off we went. And yeah, often there's an incident somewhere between there and when I meet them that involves a fair bit of skin off and they've got a bit of skin off at that point. And that's so yeah, just to sort of say that understanding how to ride a motorbike and having some experience in riding a motorbike would be a very good idea prior to coming to Vietnam and riding a motorbike. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, I'm going to still put it in my minimum standard category because, you know, people say, you know, oh, it's managing the traffic. You still have to know how to ride a bike. Ben Mitchell: Effectively, yeah. Not a scooter, a bike. I'd say in the country that you're from, go and get a motorbike license and learn to ride a motorbike prior to coming to Vietnam would be a minimum standard. Yeah, correct. Kerry Newsome: Okay. So you've done heaps on a bike, let's face it. So what would you be recommending for your first time traveller to Vietnam as an experienced rider? So they know how to ride. Ben Mitchell: Well, you've got a few choices. You can rent a motorbike and you can ride Through Vietnam you can rent a motorbike and ride through a segment of Vietnam on multi-day trips. You can travel from place to place through Vietnam and in most destinations, well all destinations that are set up for the tourist to visit in Vietnam, you can rent scooters and motorbikes for the day. and go out and explore the area. So some destinations in Vietnam are set up for people to rent a bike and go around and visit as a tourist. For day trips, some destinations you would be rented a motorbike for multi-days to visit the area. And then there's also the market of people renting motorbikes and riding through the country. People buy motorbikes in Saigon. They sell them in Hanoi. There's companies that will buy them and sell them from you. They buy them off other travelers and sell them to other travelers. And then there's the idea that you can go on a tour. And there is some really good reputable companies that provide motorbike tours. Tours can be a day trip, tours can be, you can do a tour for an evening, doing a food tour around Saigon. You can do tours in certain regions of Vietnam that might include a lot of cultural stuff and being way off the beaten track. A good way to get way off the beaten track in Vietnam is to travel by motorcycle. And then there's the way that I haven't really mentioned yet, and that is the easy rider. There is Vietnamese, normally men in most areas of Vietnam, that take tourists on day trips on the back of their motorbikes. or they take people on multi-day trips through segments of Vietnam, whether it be the South, the Central Highlands, Central Vietnam or the North, and they take people on the back of the motorbike. Now, for someone who is not a motorbike rider, to experience Vietnam in a very unique and amazing way, I would highly recommend EasyRiders as a great way to do it. You know, for instance, we get at Phong Nha Farmstay where I live, we get a lot of single female travelers staying with us. And I often say to them, are you heading south? And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, are you on a time restraint? And if they say no, I'm like, well, have you thought about doing a two-day trip from here to Hue via the Ho Chi Minh Trail through Khe Sanh on the back of an Easy Rider? And if they're up for it, it's a great way to get off the beaten track. probably their best opportunity in Vietnam to get off the beaten track with someone we trust to send them with. And they always send me an email at the end of the trip just saying, wow, thanks, that was amazing. So motorbike tourism is not just about being a competent motorbike rider and taking off on your own. You can experience some of the best of what Vietnam's got to offer. And you don't know how to ride a motorbike, but you can go on the back of a licensed local. Kerry Newsome: I feel very comfortable with that. I like it because out of the two of us, I know they know more than me and they know where they're going, they know how to manage traffic, they know the regions, they know the customs and they know the language. So that is a distinct advantage over anything I could offer to the situation. Ben Mitchell: Yeah, and it's unique and they often know some great places that no one else knows. Kerry Newsome: Hideaways. Yeah, absolutely. So they know the good food spots. They know where the potholes are. They can kind of navigate around and it's a really pleasurable experience. Ben, is there any kind of best times of the year to do this, you know, if people were planning ahead? Ben Mitchell: Yeah, if you break Vietnam into sort of three regions, the South, the Central and the North, there's better times to be in any one of those regions. If you were going to ride from all the way from up near the Chinese border down to the bottom of Vietnam at any time, you would probably find at some point along the way some uncomfortable weather, wet, hot, cold, given the time of year. Another way to look at Vietnam, as far as motorboat travel goes, would be to look at what part of the country is best for the time of year you have available to travel. I would personally say, and I've been told by the experts and I've experienced the North in October, September, October, amazing in the North. Yeah, you get a bit of light rain occasionally, but it's harvest time, so it's actually dry. The rice harvests are amazing to see, the countryside's amazing to see in September and October. Having said that, it gets cold up there January, February, and it gets hot up there in the summer, but it's great. any time of the year with the right preparation. And if you're an experienced motorbike rider, you'd know that having the correct gear is important for the time of year that you're traveling. Central Vietnam can be very wet. I often meet people traveling through central Vietnam during our wet season, which centers around October and early November. and they're discussing how amazing it is to ride in extreme rain conditions, which I wouldn't recommend, but another thing about traveling in central Vietnam by motorbike during that period is to be adaptable. with your time. If you need to change direction, if there's a storm, weather event, you need to change direction. Typhoon, yeah, typhoon. Typhoon's not good for motorbike riding. Very short-lived and often cause extreme flooding, but yeah. And then you've got the South, which is very, very hot in the summer and humid, but amazing in the winter. So, you know, leaving Central Vietnam in January, it can be 10 degrees Celsius. And then you can be down as far as Quang Ngai and you're 25. And so, yeah, spread out over two and a half thousand kilometers. What's the best time of year to travel in Vietnam by motorbike? That would be very regional. Kerry Newsome: Fair enough. And, you know, I'm a bit of fan of having my own gear. like my own boots, my own jackets, you know, I know that gear fits me well. Do you recommend people bring their own gear? Ben Mitchell: Yeah, certainly. Like if you're coming in to travel through Vietnam, I recommend you bring your own gear. If you want to buy gear over here, you'd probably find that gear is a lot cheaper here than it is in countries like Australia, where I'm from. You know, companies In Saigon, in Da Nang, in Hanoi, they have the right gear. Saigon motorcycles, Da Nang motorcycles, they sell a wide range of safety equipment at much more reasonable prices than you would get in Australia. But typically, when I travel, I always carry my own gear. Kerry Newsome: What's your average size of bike that you're going to be getting, especially for a long, like what sizes of bikes are we talking? Are we talking tourers? Are we talking off-road bikes? Are we talking on-road bikes? Ben Mitchell: For people that are just renting a bike to do day trips out of an area and around an area, typically they're going to ride scooters. People that are going to get a motorbike taxi or a local rider around an area on day trips, they're often on scooters or small motorbikes. There has been a big increase in Vietnam in options for bigger motorbikes in the last few years. Typically, you want to talk about 15 years ago and before that, most of the tourists that were coming through would ride old Russian Minsks. That chain, they're a 125cc bike that was bought out here during the Soviet era. They've gone out completely now. People went through a phase of riding cheap Hondas. Nowadays we see a lot of people riding like XR150s, little like sort of mixed trail road bikes. and scooters still, but there has been a big increase in the amount of companies running tours and renting out CB500s and other bigger bikes nowadays. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, I've seen more bigger bikes on the roads than I have before and that's getting back to that, you know, riders with proper licenses and maybe speak to everyone listening just about licensing, insurance and how strict Years ago I can remember being on a bike with my husband and we got pulled over and asked for paperwork and we had to kind of find a way around that at the time. I'm not sure that's still happening, but just what's the score there? Ben Mitchell: The licensing situation here in Vietnam is a little bit complicated for foreigners because There's different international license agreements like 1945 and 1968. Countries that signed the 1945 one and not the 1968 one are technically not recognized here in Vietnam. So you might have an Australian, a British or an American license in the country you're from, well that typically is not going to be legal here. Here in Vietnam, they have two different types of licenses for motorbikes. They have Class 1 and Class 2, or A and B. The A license is for under 175cc and the B license is for bikes over 175cc. What you really need here is an international driving permit. which is obtainable. Well, there is I know one company that can get them for you here in Vietnam prior to your arrival. That's Saigon Motorcycles. If you contact them, they can they can apply for that. If you've got a motorbike license, though, from Australia or America or England, most companies will allow you to do a tour and most companies will rent your motorbike. Where it's mainly going to affect you is in the instance of a fatality accident or something like that. Or an incident. Or your insurance. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, so let's talk about insurance because to be honest that's probably been the biggest deterrent for many and there's not many companies that do give you the option and if they do it's quite expensive. Have you got anything to share there because I think that would be of great interest. Ben Mitchell: Yeah, if you can apply for and get the international driving permit here prior to coming and you can get travel insurance that covers you for motorcycle, well then you should be legal. Kerry Newsome: My experience with the people on bikes that have fallen to incidents, let's say, some of that has got to do with maybe not being traffic aware or understanding of the road systems. Like in my country, as you would know, you only overtake on the right. You don't overtake on the left. where here people just move out of each other's way and, you know, there's some real grey areas as far as I'm concerned, as far as road rules are concerned. Can you talk to us a little bit about that? Ben Mitchell: Yeah, it's very different. We're very rigid in our thinking and we're very strict with our road rules in the West. Here in Vietnam, it's all very fluid. It's basically a very different mindset as to the list of responsibilities that you have as a driver over here. It's very different and it pays to actually talk to someone prior to jumping on the bike and heading off about getting some of the key points with that. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and fluid's a great word, Ben. I think that's the kindest word I've heard described. There's no road rage. That's the one thing I have noticed. Ben Mitchell: No, they don't have much road rage. I have noticed a little bit more tension on the road, though, as more and more people buy cars. Cars, yeah. There was a period here where cars were very rare on the road. True. And there was a lot of motorbikes on the road. And nowadays, each year, there's more and more cars and that is causing some tension situations on the road. But as far as looking at the way that everyone works on the road, people try not to stop. So they're driving in a way that limits the amount of physical stopping and They accept people pulling out in front of them and expect it, whereas we don't expect it, so we find it very difficult to understand. And people are always commenting from overseas about how, well, and the guy just pulled out in front of us. And we had to slow down. And that in itself is something that we just find hard to get our heads around. And the Vietnamese drive in a manner that is about keeping on moving, not about this stopping and starting and rigid behavior. Yeah. And very, very, very different ways of thinking. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and in some ways it's got a lot of politeness and give way. It actually does. It really does. We could learn a bit about that. Ben Mitchell: Yeah, and even the horn beeping, we instantly in our Western way see the horn as an aggressive comment. Whereas here, it's quite the opposite. It's a warning. It would be considered very rude to come up behind someone and not bite your horn. Kerry Newsome: Correct. Yeah. Do you know what? Only a few days ago, I got asked by a traveler of mine who came in, and she said, I just felt so sorry for all those people that they bit the horns at. And I said, do you know how appreciative those people are of those horns? Because they've just been told that there's a truck that's up their bum that is going to want them to move aside. So they take that hint as guidance to move out of the road and let the truck through. So it's not being rude or aggressive on the road at all. Ben Mitchell: Yeah, it's actually politeness. Kerry Newsome: What's the rules then, Ben, around drinking and driving? Ben Mitchell: It's highly illegal to drink and drive. Is it zero alcohol? They've got a zero alcohol. Kerry Newsome: Do they actually do breathalyzed tests? Ben Mitchell: They do. I got pulled over recently actually. Kerry Newsome: Tragic accidents with people that have been drinking and driving? Ben Mitchell: There has. One of the big causes of it has been the increase in cars. You know, everyone on motorbikes traveling around in Vietnam, especially in their local communities, they all put around Maybe, yes, there is a history of people having alcohol and riding their bikes and they'd putt around and they'd putt home and they'd… At 40 k's an hour. Yeah, and sometimes they'd bump into one another and they'd put their feet down and apologise and move on again because they're all going so slow. But then things have changed with the cars. There has been some big accidents with the cars and the government has brought in a zero alcohol policy and they are breathalysing. Enforcing that. And they do have some huge fines and they confiscate your car for a period of time. And you do go to jail for drink driving. They're very, very strict about it. Kerry Newsome: I'm really glad to hear that. I think the concern I have more is the new traveller, the young traveller that, you know, first time on a scooter, is hooning around, has had a few beers under his belt and doesn't understand the road rules or the the organized chaos, as we sometimes call it in the West, and then falls prey and has a tragic accident. So, you know, for everyone listening that is considering about a motorbike trip, I think what Ben is telling you here is really good to know about. But please learn the craft of riding a bike before you get here. Ben Mitchell: Yeah. And people that are sort of on a long unlimited amount of time or they can come through the country slowly and take it all in. Or they can be on the back of an easy rider bike. Or on the back of an easy rider. And people that have got good riding experience, they've got a limited amount of time and they want to get the most out of what they can get in Vietnam. I would highly recommend considering a tour, a motorbike tour. And there's a multitude of companies that do the motorbike tours. There's some companies that don't specialize in the north. There's companies that do all the way through the country, like Adrenaline Rush Trails. Up in the north, you've got some of the older ones, Flamingo and Kung's Motorbike Adventures. Down in the south, there's different operators. Based on the time of year, going with a professional company, safety levels are pretty good. Those tour companies, they know what they're doing. Kerry Newsome: Ben, thanks for coming on and talking about this subject as it's something I think we kind of skim over, comes up a lot as far as touring around Vietnam. And, you know, it is a bike culture here with trillions of them still on the road, even though cars are coming through. So I think great advice. Thanks for coming on. Ben Mitchell: Thanks, Kerry. Thanks for today. Kerry Newsome: Thanks very much, Ben. Now we'll jump into that interview I got to do with my friend Chris Pantelli about the ride he just did in April this year. You're going to love his ability to really put you in the picture of that ride with his son, Nicholas, and just some of the aspects of the trip that really hit home for him. Let's join up with Chris now. Okay, so here we are. Chris, thanks for coming on the show. Chris Panteli: My pleasure, Kerry. Kerry Newsome: Chris, before we jump in, I thought for everybody I'd just give a little bit of context on, you know, how I know you, how we found ourselves together in Vietnam, and a little bit about your bike riding experience. So, just two secs. So, we did a trip, quite a long trip this time in Vietnam, and I brought my husband. And this is about kind of March, April, and we got to meet up with Chris, his wife Danielle, and his son Nicholas in Hoi An. Chris and Nicholas had just come back from a four or five-day bike ride in northern Vietnam. So, you know, to say that they were pretty high after that would be an understatement, but I'll let Chris tell you a bit more about that. But I've asked Chris to come on because he's an experienced bike rider. He was traveling with his 25-year-old son, and they chose to do this ride in northern Vietnam. And I just thought Chris could bring to the show for you some real insights that are very relevant to undertaking this kind of experience in Vietnam. And certainly, he's going to be able to talk about that area and just give you some tips and hints to make it as hassle-free as possible. So maybe Chris, tell us Why did you choose this company? Because you chose a tour company, and I know you had a few reservations about that to begin with, and we spoke about that separately. But what was it about this company that made you say, yes, I want to go with this company called ADV Motorcycle Tours and Dirt Bike Travel? Chris Panteli: Oh, thank you. Look, it was, I guess, one of those moments where you're diving into a place that you don't know. The reason why I selected ADV was more so just from the assistance, the direction, I think their professionalism. Everything's sort of done through bank transfers, as you're aware, which is quite foreign to what we do. So, being a sceptic and not sort of, I don't know anybody in there, it was just a good feeling from the beginning, just in the way that everything's set up. So, immediately, it was more personal than business and that showed through from the beginning to the end. So, from the initial introduction, payments, to scheduling the plan, adjusting the plan, doing the ride, it was just comfortable from the beginning. So I had another few companies that I was looking at and I didn't feel as comfortable. So ADV was definitely our choice and a good choice in the long run. Kerry Newsome: Okay, so I think for everyone, it's key for you to give time, effort and put some thought into researching the right companies to work with. That is kind of primary and I want to start with that. And I'm happy to answer any questions if you want to come to me direct to recommendations. I'm going to put a link in the show notes to ADV because of Chris's great experience and he'll probably expand a bit more on that as we go. Chris, what was it about the area you chose? Because maybe talk a little bit about that northern region that you went into and what spoke to you and said, hey, that's where we want to head, that's where we want to go. Chris Panteli: Well, we were starting in Hanoi, so we were sort of destined to be either to the north or the south and we decided to do it just based on what ADV had I just sort of linked on their website in areas, tours, day tours and the like. We ended up doing a four-day tour. It was meant to be five, but my son was a little ill and again, ADV just adjusted. So we did a four-day massive tour, which was fantastic. We started in Hanoi, which was Amazing. The whole ride itself, I should probably say, is off-road and on-road. We were on WR250s, semi-motocross bikes, and we started off bustling through Hanoi, through to Tak Ba, which the scenery, by the way, was absolutely sensational. The guide that we had, Charlie, he's actually a tourist guide as well, so a wealth of knowledge, young kid, absolutely brilliant. But, you know, there was time to enjoy the scenery. It was, you know, amazing riding. There was boat tours, there was swimming, there were homestays. It was just absolutely spectacular. The riding was about 180 k's a day, so eight to 10 hours, you know, from Hanoi to Tak Ba, and then we went from Tak Ba to Bep Tam, and then from Bep Tam near the Lao border, and then from there back into Hanoi. But the scenery was spectacular. In fact, everything about it was spectacular. The organisation, the homestays, it was just sensational. Kerry Newsome: And you have chosen, without you even realising, one of the most scenic areas in northern Vietnam for sure. And I can back you up totally, because my husband and I went there a totally different way. We obviously weren't on the back of a bike, but we went up into the Yen Bai province. And for everyone listening, I did an episode on Yen Bai just recently, so you can flick back to that if you'd like to experience Yen Bai, but maybe not on a bike. But it is scenery at levels and expansiveness and kind of the rice fields, Chris, you would say, the ingenuity of them cascading down the mountains. Unbelievable, hey? Chris Panteli: It is so picturesque. It's exactly what you see in the guides and the tourist type, you know, magazines and the like. I think some of the spectacular things were what They chose a journey that was so memorable. For my son and I, it was memories and a life experience that you would never, ever be able to replicate again. I think when we do it again, as you know, we're booking again very soon. We'll be in touch. It will never be the same. That first experience, and especially where Charlie took us and the route, the scenery, the path, the engagements, even the dinners. Every night there was a special dinner or whatever it may be. It was absolutely spectacular. So I don't know what the rest of Vietnam's like, but I can tell you, you planned out our last trip. So we know we did Ha Long Bay and then all the other places. But that part for that motorcycle tour was absolutely sensational. Yeah. Kerry Newsome: So in, in a kind of getting to nitty gritty kind of things, talk to us a little bit about, um, your gear, the bike itself, like feeling safe, the road, you know, like how, how good were the roads to, to travel on and even off road. Did you kind of feel like that you were in an environment with your guide and the tour company kind of, they knew what they were doing and you were in good hands kind of thing. So talk us through some of those aspects for people. Chris Panteli: Well, from the beginning, um, sort of, uh, lie in, uh, picked up, but we were basically picked up and taken to where ADV headquarters was. Um, you went through, had a similar on the bike, the box with our both WR two 50s. So goodbye. So not, not, not rubbish, um, and well-maintained and the like. So very, very happy and I'm a very fussy person, um, and very particular. Um, so. On that part, we started well with the gear. We did bring some of our own riding gear, so helmets. I think that's a good idea. Yep. Yep. So we didn't bring boots. So if we could have got everything from ADV, but it wasn't a hassle. I think if you're a bike rider, bring your own helmet, the rest you can take on your own. But from there, it was based introduction, put your gear on, get familiar with the bike, adjust levers and all that sort of stuff, make sure it's all good. A bit of local knowledge on what's what. Once you're committed, you're committed in Vietnam and you're riding. Very, very different too. So it's first time for me. I've been lots of places in the world, but not into Vietnam. So it was very, very different. I guess, aspect in how people drive, their awareness, how everything just merges nicely. We are not used to those things. But from there, it was gear on, and we started off with a tour. There was a set time that we needed to get to certain places. I would say, even if you were a beginner rider, ADV would be able to put a tour appropriate to your skill level. um you know to achieve something that we would uh we were quite advanced and i think charlie enjoyed that you know nick and i've been riding for a long time he's been riding since he was a small kid as well he's 25 now um that we were quite advanced so i think charlie enjoyed um taking us to some of the more difficult areas um but it was always safe well guided so when we're driving through and i think that's an experience riding through vietnam hanoi peak hour um like that is amazing. But Charlie even made that very, very, you know, obviously we're on big bikes, so we stand up over most of the scooters and the like. So, Charlie, we had hand signals, you know, to speed up and slow down. It was just perfectly safe. In some of the off-road, some of it was quite difficult. Some of the bridge crossings were quite, you know, not impossible. Yeah, you know, average conditions. And, you know, some slippery, we were lucky the weather was perfect for us. So it was, you know, perfect in that April period for us. You know, there were boat tours, ferries, like it was just very, very well organized. And it would suit most levels, even beginner levels of riding. Kerry Newsome: I think covering off the things like gear and the quality of the bikes and, you know, good guides taking you to places that they know that you can handle. And because you were an experienced rider, they can kind of take you into places where, you know, somebody new to, to bike riding, uh, would be, you know, not, not the right thing to do. Would you say, Chris, you know, in, in planning that trip, what would you do? differently? Like, is there anything that you would do differently? Chris Panteli: Look, to be honest, I'd probably do a longer tour next time with maybe shorter days. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, it's a long day. Yeah. Chris Panteli: 180Ks a day. And Nick and I can ride and we love riding. And I'll tell you what, um, you know, you would get to the end destination and, um, you would just want to relax. Um, what I would not, what I absolutely, what I would not ever do is do that on my own. So some of the places that we went to were just so remote, just so beautiful, but have no idea where you are at all, like even crossing borders into other regions and stuff like that. Things change. It's crazy. So I really wouldn't change anything on the tour. I'd make it a little longer and maybe some shorter days, so duration longer, maybe shorter days. I would never attempt that without a guide. and we will only use ADV now, but I would, I think the importance of having someone organize something, even though stays, I'll send you some photos, but even where we stayed, the homestays, the rooms, the dinners that we had, it was just a cultural experience. So that's probably, I probably wouldn't change anything, maybe the duration and maybe, you know, maybe some shorter days. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and I think that's a good point. You know, Vietnam is such a big country and people get there and sometimes I just think they just try to pack in way too much, too quickly. And the advantage of a company like this is it's got that flexibility. And what I liked most to hear from you when we caught up was just, you know, what happened with Nicholas, you know, having, you know, an illness kind of very early on in the trip where you had to make some adaptations, maybe talk to everyone about that because, you know, It's very easy to talk and gloss over and say when everything's perfect, you know, it all goes rosy and you only hear those stories. But I think it's actually good to hear a story where, you know, things, you know, happen that aren't planned and yet they can be easily managed or can be better managed. So talk to us about poor Nick. Chris Panteli: It was most unfortunate. So a couple of friends of ours from Canada come down, so we ended up going into beer corner and all that sort of stuff, probably crazy light the day before we're going for a ride. Maybe we were also told not to eat communal peanuts and all that sort of stuff, but anyway, that went to the wayside. To say that Nick had probably the worst bounty gastro I've ever, ever seen, including anything on any of my tours or anything like that as well, is an understatement. He wasn't looking well. Everything was not well at all, you know, in bed, everything, you know, happening. So it was quite catastrophic. But I rang Min, and Min's the operations manager from ADV. And this is the guy that I was dealing with from the beginning. So I told him what happened and said, hey, listen, mate, I don't think that we'll be able to start the ride. Nick's got really bad gastro. Probably think I have to take him to the hospital. Anyway, Min, like normal, providing the best advice that he can. told me exactly what I needed from the pharmacy, exactly what he asked for. If they didn't understand me to call them, you know, call him, give him the phone and basically said, start taking these. And if he's not feeling, you know, much better in six hours, I will come and grab you and I'll take you to hospital. True to his name, it did work out. Nick was a little average on the first day. But again, you know, if we didn't have that person, obviously I could have called you, Kerry, but If I didn't have men on that part of it, it would have been catastrophic. We would have had to cancel. But also, we changed the five-day ride to a four-day ride and still did almost 180km a day. It was just sensational to have someone to give you correct advice, knowing, and it's happened before, how to get over it and overcome that illness. Kerry Newsome: cannot say more strongly how much it gives people that peace of mind. Just throwing yourself into Vietnam at times, I think people really underestimate the heat, the change in the foods, you know, people say, oh, am I going to get, you know, barley belly kind of things? Well, yeah, you might get that. Just purely in the way that, you know, the soils, some of the food types. And yeah, if you go to, you know, and maybe enjoy Bee Hoi and You know, but it's all part of the adventure, but it's really about how it's managed. And I've had a similar experience to you, Chris, you know, where, you know, the Vietnamese will just really step out, uh, in ways that in certainly in Australia and, and most Western countries would not do. They would not offer that kind of service to. You know, come and get you if it didn't work out, take you to the hospital, manage the language barrier, blah, blah, blah. You know, so I'm really glad to hear that because I think, you know, we talk about stories where everything goes great most of the time and, and that's wonderful. But, you know, on the occasion when things go awry, I mean, I saw Nicholas when you arrived in Toi An after he was beaming, looked the picture of health, was raving about the trip. So, you know, all power to ADV for helping you manage that, get you still involved in the tour and, you know, coming out the other side all smiling. So good to hear, Chris. Chris Panteli: And you know what, it sort of resonated through the whole trip as well. We had bunches, Charlie fixed it on the spot. We had a couple of breakages, he found parts. There was support crew if we needed it. So it was the whole thing was just taken care of. Couldn't have been in better hands. On your own though, well, I think it would have been a total different story. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and just, you know, even that, you know, those few days that I had in Yanbai, you know, something that I really had to take note of was just the fact that in those regions, because of their remoteness, the language is another challenge. Not every place has good Wi-Fi, so once again, you can't get onto Google Translate to help you out there. And, you know, having someone to say, look, hey, go here. This is where this happens. You know, you're going to be fine. Just takes all that worry away, gives you back that sense of control. And, you know, you can really enjoy it without having to worry about the things that, you know, you shouldn't have to worry about it on a holiday because it is a holiday. So, have we inspired you, Chris, to come back to Vietnam, like with this trip? Chris Panteli: Oh, you already know that's happening. Kerry Newsome: We will be back. Well, I'm trying to go. What have I got to do to get you back? But no, that's right. You are coming back. Yeah. Chris Panteli: Yeah. So, Tash is going to do a placement in Cambodia Nursing, and well, the family's going to come for another holiday. So, we'll be back. Yeah, so we'll do something different on this one. Last one was brilliant. And yeah, Vietnam, you're right. I think everything will be disappointing in Asia outside of Vietnam, but who cares now? It's a beautiful place, so we'll be back. Kerry Newsome: Fantastic. Chris, is there anything we didn't cover that we should have covered about this trip? Is there anything I didn't ask or whatever before we wrap up? Chris Panteli: I just think if people are going to take on and do that on-road, off-road, so ours was combined on-road, off-road type thing, really consider who you're going with. I wouldn't recommend doing it on your own. I'm quite adventurous and so is Nick, but it's just not something we would do. The other thing is, if you happen to break down in some of those places, You would really need local knowledge to get yourself out of that, make yourself safe, be able to… And the other part was as well, everywhere we went with Charlie, Charlie was like a little rock star. So you almost got VIP service in all the restaurants and villages and kids running next to you and jumping on your bikes and stuff. I would just look at the value. It's not expensive, my goodness. It costs four times as much to do the same thing in Australia. But look at what you're going to get for it. I strongly recommend going with something like an ADV. I couldn't recommend them more. It's just for peace of mind and everything will be smooth. So that's probably it, really, Kerry. Kerry Newsome: Okay. Thanks very much, Chris, and I look forward to chatting with you again soon.

S4-09 Hanoi A Foodies Paradise P1 Hanoi is a foodies paradise - Part 1 Episode 9 S4-09 Hanoi A Foodies Paradise P1 00:00 / 33:22 When you think of Hanoi, do you automatically think of food? Probably not, but after you have a listen to this 2 Part Series, you may very well change your mind! You may even decide to spend more time in Vietnam’s capital city to explore its rich culture, history, labyrinth of tiny streets in the old quarter and, of course, its hearty food. My guest on today’s show is a prime example of someone who got swooped up by the city’s chaotic diversity and charm. However, while she loves the city this show….it is without a doubt “all about the food. The dishes. The places to enjoy food. And the districts to visit to expand your culinary horizons. Find out what is truly distinct about Northern Vietnamese cuisine in this episode of What About Vietnam Podcast. Let me tell you a little about my guest Corrin Carlson. Starting from her home in the U.S. Corrin let her passport lead the way to a working holiday in NZ. From there she navigated her way around SE Asia finally landing in Hanoi in about 2019. Before she knew it, a month had been extended to 3 months. Then Covid hit. However, for Corrin that meant work opportunities popped up, and a special someone who won her heart. Eventually, she found herself in Hanoi for 3 years. During her time in Vietnam, as a talented actress, she applied her skills to produce the very popular “The Fat Passport” Tik Tok and Instagram pages, sharing her “Plates of Hanoi” with her many followers. This is a show brimming with lots of helpful and cool information including answers to some of those tough questions related to food that both her and I get asked all the time. Make sure to check out the transcripts for all of the amazing details! And don’t forget to tune into Part 2 to follow! Time stamps for your easy reference: 07.29 – Best areas for Tourists to head to 08.20 – Tay Ho Lake district – Broadening your horizons 12.28 – Casual Dining – Plates of Hanoi 14.37 – Famous Hanoi Districts 16.58 – The vegetarian options 21.03 – Street food you wont want to miss 27.19 – Chicken street 29.05 – One dog of a question we get asked all the time Follow Corrin here – 
https://www.tiktok.com/@thefatpassport?lang=en https://www.instagram.com/thefatpassport/ Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S4-14 Con Dao Islands Con Dao Islands with Conor Kelly Eprisode 14 S4-14 Con Dao Islands 00:00 / 30:31 My guest describes this destination as, “it's probably my favorite spot in Vietnam, and maybe ever, just due to its complexity and beauty”. Today we take a deep dive into the Con Dao Islands with Conor Kelly. Conor shares with us a short break he took to the Islands and some of the things that took him by surprise. It’s great to welcome Conor back to the show. We have worked together before on his own Podcast called The Comeback, where I was the guest. While Conor has high praise for the islands, as we explored the activities during his stay more deeply we discovered some of islands dark history and limitations. We unpacked the “how to get there” travel experience, and how much time you should allow for a stay. If I could call this show the “reality Check-in to Con Dao” I would. As while it features some of the best beaches in Vietnam, it is not geared for the tourist looking for some serious beach side bar and restaurant action, similar to that of Danang, Phu Quoc or Nha Trang. If you are the luxury traveller, this place has your name on it. As it features a stunning Six Senses resort. For those seeking a restful quiet chilled-out stay, Con Dao should be your first choice. Ranked No. 1 Best Resort In Southeast Asia. Travel + Leisure World's Best Awards 2021 No matter what your budget, if you are starting to investigate beach side holidays in Vietnam, Con Dao will come up, and it is the perfect “get away” from it all. So, bring a good book or a good podcast and enjoy. Time stamps to follow 4.43 The “hidden gem” aspect of the islands 7.01 First impressions 11.11 The accommodation scale 12.29 Nobody knows you are here – the feeling of isolation 16.30 Discovering the islands “things to do” 19.15 “The war place” 23.09 The food experience 24.57 “Time out” – how long is long enough? 27.11 Must do’s and don’ts – Watch for flights in and out Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S5-E26 Wellness Tourim - A fresh take from Hoi An S5-E26 Wellness Tourim - A fresh take from Hoi An Episode 26 S5-E26 Wellness Tourim - A fresh take from Hoi An 00:00 / 49:33 If you've ever felt put off by wellness retreats that seem more like boot camps — all strict schedules, silent meals, and mandatory sunrise yoga — then this episode is for you. Join me as I broadcast from the tranquil grounds of Namia River Retreat in Hoi An, where wellness takes on a much more inclusive, luxurious, and deeply personal meaning. In this episode, I sit down with Michelle Ford, GM of Namia and CEO of Lumina Wellbeing, and Dien Pham, Director of Sales and a holistic wellness practitioner in her own right. Together, we unpack what wellness travel really looks like in Vietnam — and why it's gaining serious momentum. We talk: • Why Hoi An is fast becoming a wellness destination (think: hair baths, vitamin C IV drips, traditional herbal therapy, and infused spa treatments that actually relax you) • The evolving post-pandemic demand for retreats that prioritise well-being without the rigidity • What makes Namia’s approach to wellness more about "Inclusive wellness" and less about rules • Why travellers are sleeping better here — and not just because of the mattresses • And how Vietnam is carving out its own path in wellness tourism, distinct from its Southeast Asian neighbours Whether you’re curious about wellness travel, craving a proper reset, or just want to explore Vietnam in a way that nourishes your mind and body – this episode has something for you. Tune in now to hear how Vietnam is redefining retreat life — without being hard core. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S4-25 A fun Guide to droning - Photos Part 3 S4-25 -Drone photography in Vietnam A fun Guide for travellers Part 3 Photography 00:00 Kerry Newsome Xin chào and welcome to What About Vietnam. Now, if you're thinking about Vietnam, you're obviously going to start searching social pages, Googling Instagrams, Reels, you name it. And amongst that search, you're going to find a lot of great photography and in particular, a lot of great drone photography. So when I was putting together the 3 part series, I had to include it as 3 parts because whilst we got a lot out of Thomas, like we really learnt some great tips on how to manage our phones or our cameras to get some great pics in Vietnam. But we couldn't just talk about photography and let it stand alone as drone photography and drone video is becoming, you know, something that everybody can do, even people like me. I was fascinated with it back in 2018 and started to bring a drone camera into Vietnam to take some shots. Unfortunately, on the occasion, the weather was pretty awful. So, I didn't have such a great time of it. But at that time, there was a lot of nervousness around bringing a drone camera into Vietnam and doing drone video for a lot of security reasons. There were some people trying to bring it into the country and just for recreation. And, you know, they were getting stopped at security and asked questions. And, you know, there was lots of talk about being confiscated and things like that. So, it was a bit of a crazy time. But in today's chat with my really well informed and local guest, Anton. And you'll hear me try to pronounce his surname in the show, which I think I get right. We're going to talk to him about how he's kind of started droning in Vietnam, but started back in Malaysia. But let me do Anton justice by giving you a little bit of background to him. He's from Ukraine. And while travel is not easy from there, for the past five years, he's been traveling throughout Asia, starting in Malaysia, where he taught English in KL for three years. He really enjoyed that time. And he decided to venture a little deeper into Southeast Asia and found himself in Vietnam. Oh, surprise. Malaysia spiked his interest in blogging as a hobby. And from there, his interest has grown. And he says, you know, when you travel alone, because timing just doesn't always work to join with friends, you still want to share your experiences with others. And I agree totally. So while his hobby started with Instagram, it's taken on a life of its own and morphed into a YouTube channel where filming from his Lumix G85 and his GoPro 8 was doing a satisfactory job. He said, you know, he just had the urge to take it up a notch. So here comes the drone as the best tool to capture those ordinary moments and panoramic views and turn them into extraordinary masterpieces. With the rise of apps and cutting edge technology that allows fantastic editing, capturing epic images and videos from unique perspectives in Vietnam, look now has never been easier. Anton continues to teach English from his base in Vietnam and says he feels like Vietnam has it all, beaches, mountains, hills to hike and old towns and basically anything you want whenever his schedule permits. He is out exploring more of the country and droning where he can. I've put all the links in the show notes so you can follow him on his YouTube channel and you know, I first spotted Anton on YouTube doing one talking about Danang and I think you're going to get a lot out of that. So definitely worth checking out. From my perspective, Anton was able to simplify some of the basic protocols for using your drone for non-commercial purposes. And that's what we're going to stick to in this show. So. if you're the guy that's going to do the next Tourist in Vietnam love story, you will have to get some special permissions. This is definitely for your leisure and recreational traveler who has an interest in photography and in particular drone photography. It is the third part of the photographic series that I've just put together this month. So I hope you're really going to enjoy it. From my perspective, I've had some great fun using my DJI Mavic Pro 3. It's a bit of a monster one. It's about one kilo. But, you know, just the shots that you can get on the right day at the right time are worth it, definitely worth it. But he's Anton. Let's welcome him to the show and learn a little bit more about droning in Vietnam in twenty twenty three. Today, I'm very excited to welcome Anton Glushkoff to the program. He's having a little smile at me at the moment because I've I think I've got his surname pronounced correctly, but just really happy to have 06:01 Alright Anton you on the program and welcome to What About Vietnam. Hi, Carrie. Thanks for having me here. It's exciting. 06:07 Kerry Newsome You said that's a really good start. Now we're going to be talking about something that I have a great interest in. And that's drone photography. We see a lot of it on your Instagram’s and your Reels and your YouTube videos. And I've seen the recent one that you did on Da Nang, which was fantastic. So I'm really going to ping you with lots of questions about how you came to get involved with drone photography in your interest. So let's start kind of right at the beginning, if I may, and say, OK, Anton, what made you decide to get into drone photography and in particular in 06:51 Alright Anton Vietnam? Good question. Well, I started my YouTube like two years ago and I started with my GoPro. That felt like amazing. It's got 4K stabilization. It was great. But when you start filming, it's never enough. So then I bought a new camera and then it was great. It was awesome. But then again, it felt like not enough. And I started thinking about drone because, you know, it gives you this perspective and it's an amazing tool. I just I can't get enough of it. There's so many things you can do that it can fly. It can film. It's got a stabilization. So any kind of altitude. So, yeah, well, one time I just think like, well, well, that's going to be my next step. I just got to get a drone and I was trying to choose one that would be perfect for me. I chose something not too expensive. I've got DJI Mini 2. So that's, I think, very good choice for a traveler, for a solo traveler. And, yeah, yeah, it did. It works perfectly well. And it's really fun. It is. 07:56 Kerry Newsome And, you know, some of the drone photography that we all see sort of gives a perspective of some places that you can't see from the ground. You just cannot get that perspective and that 360 degrees, which is what I think is fabulous, but getting back to some kind of basics for people who are thinking about bringing their drone to Vietnam, can you speak to us a little bit about just some tips maybe on carrying the camera, how best to do that? You know, we've got lithium batteries getting through security, you know, like some of the pointers there for people and especially just your recreational drone 08:46 Alright Anton flyers that are just in it for fun. Yeah, I've been thinking about this question. I have just posted this video about Danang, right? And it's about just flying a drone. To be honest, it was not the main idea behind it. I just wanted to create a theme for the video and I chose the drone because there were some issues with drone, but, yeah, now after this video, you know, my YouTube is very small, like there's like 400 followers and usually people don't should bombard me with questions, but this time at least six or seven people asked me like, oh, drone, how did you bring it in? How did you fly? Were there any problems? And I was generally surprised, like, what problems? What kind of problems are you talking about? Because I personally have never had any issues with it, never. And like I've lived in Vietnam for two years now. I've owned this drone for a year. And well, there were some issues, but there were more about filming in certain areas, there were some restrictions and sometimes there would be some people who would approach me and say, like, no, you cannot fly here. That that happened a few times. But like I flew in and out two times. I flew once to Malaysia with my drone and flew once to Thailand. So I also I did domestic flights with the drone. And no one ever asked me anything. And I'm a bit of, I don't like check- in luggage. So I always carry everything with me. So they would actually be able to scan my bag and see that there's a phone with those three lithium batteries and they never said anything. There is one thing, though, I guess it works. I'm very tall and I think Vietnamese people, I might be a bit intimidating. I'm like two meters tall and I'm quite big. So it's like, you know, I know I've heard stories not related to the drone, but I know, like, in certain situations, like my friends would be bothered by some guys while with me they would be like,ok!! 10:43 Kerry Newsome Yeah. I think that's fantastic. Yeah. I mean, I know when I mean, I always bring a lot of luggage and I kind of stay my maximum of 30 days, so I've usually have got a fair bit as carry on, as well as check in. But in that carry- on proponent, I would kind of disassemble the drone, take the batteries out, put them in a separate bag and have heaps of chords and that. So I did get the odd look occasionally. And some of the security people would kind of go through things a little bit more thoroughly and asking me what they were, what the batteries were, what they were for, et cetera. And I felt this was kind of like four or five years ago when it was kind of still new in Vietnam. And I'd just say it was for a camera. And that was kind of the easiest way to explain it. Drone was, you know, how do you say drone in Vietnam? Don't know. So I just went for camera and I kind of do that and then I'd get it. And I didn't have any problems. But there was quite a bit of nervousness there for a while about the responsibility as a tourist, you know, that people were taking the precautions about flying and being safe with it. And obviously, you've already brought that up in that video that you did on Danang and for everyone listening, I'll put the link to Anton's video so you can check it out yourself. But it was it was good to bring up things like no- fly zones and things like that. And I've seen some drone photography where I've gone. There's no way they could have done that unless they were standing about there or they were over there or whatever. So I'm not sure. I mean, have you seen much kind of police watching of people with drones or seen other people flying drones irresponsibly, I guess? 12:48 Alright Anton I haven't like personally seen people doing it, but I've seen videos where I know like, this is probably not legal. I have seen that and that is dangerous for multiple reasons. Responsible, you can get other people in trouble and you can get into trouble. Well, I think generally it's not a good idea when you are traveling. You don't want to get into problems. And normally with the drones like DJI application, DJI fly application is really smart and always use the restriction zones. It marks them on the map. Yeah. So it won't let you lift off and they will notify you. But I know like that people have these programs. There are some additional programs. They there's lots of things that can be done to drones and that's not safe. And yeah, in this case, that's a very easy way to get into problems because some of those restrictions zones can be related to government buildings or military buildings. And very problematic. Can become very serious. 13:56 Kerry Newsome And you don't have to do that. I mean, I think being responsible, which leads to my question to you about, can you suggest or would you recommend people do some homework before arriving into Vietnam just so that they get a bit of a lay of the land kind of thing? 14:08 Alright Anton I would sometimes use again the same application because you don't really need to actually fly the drone to access as you can open and you can look at the map. And yeah, I would say I just open the map and look at the area where I'm going to see whether any restriction zones, because like a couple of weeks ago I went to Thailand, to Koh Samui and Koh Tao, and then I decided to check, oh, so what's around these islands? Then I realized, oh, wow, actually, there is a big airport in Koh Samui. And obviously there's a restriction zone. So I thought, oh, OK, well, then it kind of changed my plan about my film because I realized that, well, I won't be able to fly my drone because the airport is just there in the middle and obviously it's not safe and you cannot lift off. So, yeah, that's certainly yes. Googling, I don't know, because I well, when all these questions came about droning, I started checking on the internet. So what does the internet say? And I was like, yeah, you cannot fly to Danang with a drone. You cannot do this. You cannot do that. I'm like, what does this come from? Like, I mean, again, I don't know for sure. Like I talk from my personal experience. So maybe some people have had a bad experience. I wouldn't be surprised. But in my case, like, no, no one really bothered me. Again, maybe because of the size, because I'm flying DJI Mini. It's 249 grams. I've got the pro. If it is, yeah, if it is pro, if it was like one kilogram, 15:33 Kerry Newsome it's different kind of equipment that one. It looks like you're a professional. So you may have some profession in media or, you know, you're going to do something of a professional or business nature versus yours, which is, you know, more recreational, you know, more for traveling. So I think, you know, everyone, if you if you've got a drone or you're thinking about buying a drone and you'd like to bring that to Vietnam and you're not really kind of dead serious about making, you know, drone photography, your business or that kind of thing, I think it's much easier if you buy the smaller model, as Anton suggesting, and I'll put the name of the one that you use, Anton, in the show notes so everyone's got that. Yeah, because I did the same as you. I did a lot of checking of Googling and whatever. And then I found on some website there was some forms that you had to fill in to declare whether or not you were filming for business, you know, professional purposes or whether you were using the drone for recreational. And I was a bit conflicted then because I thought, oh, well, I do a podcast and I put it up on YouTube. Is that for professional or is that recreational? I don't know. What do you think? 16:59 Alright Anton Professional would be something related to bigger institutions if you're making like a big video for a big company that needs to legally check everything, because like if you're making a drone footage for, let's say, Apple, yeah, obviously they need to go through legal restrictions and checking, then yes, if I made a video for that kind of organization, I'd probably be a little more serious because then, yes, that could be checked. If you're making for your own YouTube, I don't think you'd need to do that. I did check that again. There was one person who commented on my video and saying, like, oh, yeah, you must get a license. You must do that. You must do this. And I know that in America now, like if you go to a certain place, you must have a drone flying license. And it totally makes sense. But then I checked whether this is a thing in Vietnam. And apparently, not really. You can get a license. It looks like it's for commercial film. If you're making commercial video, yes. And that's like five hundred dollars. And it's like, as I understood, like for one day of flight or something. And yeah, but that's not exactly what I'm doing. 18:10 Kerry Newsome No, certainly not. And I'm sure if they saw the quality of some of my drone photography or my videos, they'd go, no, she's definitely not making money out of that. So, no. So tell us some tips about flying a drone in Vietnam. Are there any kind of peculiarities? I mean, the little bit of learning that I had was kind of not particularly extensive. The little bit I heard was, you know, things about flying in the middle of the day, kind of not ideal because of the direct sunlight and things like that. So do you have any tips for my listeners about if they are out there drone flying in Vietnam, things they should look out for? 18:56 Alright Anton Yeah, middle of the day, it's my problem too. I'm a little bit lazy. I need to solve it. It's easy. There's this thing called energy filters, like a small filter that you attach to your camera. It's basically like, you know, like sunglasses, but for your drone. And then you can film everything and it doesn't get overexposed. Yeah. And it's kind of easy to buy. And I should because I have an ND filter for my camera because it's the same thing. There's too much sun. I think it's overexposed. And yes, certainly if you want to make nice footage, something like nice and smooth ND filter would be helpful. There was a problem like lifting off sometimes. Like if you want to lift off, you know, Vietnam, there's all these wires and buildings and that would be sometimes a challenge. I wouldn't like it's especially in a city in the time. It's really hard to find like a free spot, a safe spot just to lift off. Because of the congestion. I would struggle with that sometimes. 19:55 Kerry Newsome Yes. And the wires. Yes, of course. Yeah. And what about things like birds? 19:59 Alright Anton Oh, yes, yes, birds. They terrify me. And they are really, really interesting, especially for some reason, swallows. They just like they start circling around drone. I had some footage when you fly it and I see like, wow, those swallows, they are getting quite serious about it. And once I filmed, I traveled in the Ha Long Bay and there were these huge eagles that would be like circling around. You know, swallow is not going to do anything. 20:30 Kerry Newsome It's tiny, but eagle. It could have it for breakfast. It hits the drone. 20:36 Alright Anton Sure. I was like flying around. I didn't film it, but I saw eagle just like one meter away from drone. 20:43 Kerry Newsome I was like, OK, it's not to go back. How do you go navigating the weather? Because let's face it, you can have your drone up there and you're watching the skies and very quickly it can change. So you've got to kind of get, get down and get down quickly sometimes. Have you had that experience? 20:58 Alright Anton Actually, No, I was really lucky. I haven't really filmed anything in the south of Vietnam yet. Like I haven't done in the South, it's the tropical weather that's where the rain happens all the time. North Northern weather is more stable, so it can rain. But then you can see it coming. It would be kind of like a day before it builds up and then, you know, the next day is going to be bad. But it could be windy. The wind is a challenge and it burns the battery really quickly. And sometimes difficult to film anything. Sometimes it's so strong that even the gimbal cannot handle it. It's just impossible. And then it's dangerous because you can't really lift off easily. Landing is challenging. I think wind has been the biggest challenge because it just spoils everything. And then, you know, like you have a pro drone, so it's heavier and it's much more stable. Mine is small, so it's great for travelling. But it's light. So when the yes, yeah. And heavy rain, I would think. Oh, yeah. I mean, rain. Actually, yeah, I was in Bana hills near Danang and the rain was approaching us. Yeah, that just I have to cancel. I see there's rain and, you know, these drones are just not made flying when there's water around it. So, yeah, there are some clouds, a bit of a drizzle. And, yeah, I had to cancel the whole plan because it's just unsafe. The drones do collapse, whatever. 22:38 Kerry Newsome So, yeah, if it happens, then I guess you've got to kind of throw it in, don't you? Yeah, I had a crack at doing Bana hills and it was just fraught with danger. Like every time I tried to set it up to lift off, there'd be some people that would come and I was trying to go like to the furthest point and it was late in the day. So nearly everyone had left. It was quiet. It was quiet and normal. And like, I thought I really wanted to get that kind of as the day was ending, kind of feel and look about it, et cetera. But then the wind came up and started to rain and like I just yeah. So I had to cancel the whole thing. Have you had any success up there? Bana hills? 23:25 Alright Anton No, no. It was in a way a bit of a disaster. But yeah, I was, you know, Bana hills are made with this golden bridge with these hands. I was like, whoa, this is going to be so cool. You know, they build all this artificial village, which is kind of cool anyway. Not really a big fan one. But it is cool. I think so too. Cool. And I thought, wow. Yeah. And then I thought, wow, it's going to be great to fly my drone. And then I get there and it gets covered in clouds like almost immediately. And it starts drizzling. I'm like, OK, well, I can use my camera. It's going to be fine with it. But drone, unfortunately not. And also, like usually they say, as I see it, like on the top of the hills, it's usually almost well, especially for a small drone. It's hard to fly. The wind is too strong. And I've also watched videos that sometimes on the top of the hill, the wind can be so strong that just can carry your drone away and you won't be able to get it back and it's going to be gone. And it happens. So I'm very, very careful with that because like you can fly away. And then on the way back, because of the strength of the wind, you just can fly back. Keep your drone in physical sight or do you let it go? I don't. I do let it go a lot. It's nerve-racking. It's terrifying me still because it's not very expensive, but still it's quite a bit of money. Yeah. So you don't want to lose it. So it's nerve-racking. And yeah, I lose it. I was like, well, very cool because, you know, I need to fly around and see stuff. And yeah, I had a funny case once. I was in Ninh Binh and there's huge complex like temples. It's amazing. It's gigantic. But I didn't want to fly my drone there. So I decided to, OK, we're going to walk around and I get out. And then I lift off just fly around. But I didn't really realize that actually the parking lot is really far from the temple complex, it's like almost a kilometer away. So I lift there and realized, oh, wow, actually I need to fly quite far. 25:27 Kerry Newsome . So you did it? So you lift off from the car park and you had to fly it all the way back to. Oh, right. 25:38 Alright Anton Yeah. It was almost a kilometer. And yeah, like I finally reached it and realized, oh, this is so far away. And it was my literally first trip with the drone. I wasn't really out of physical sight. It didn't go so far away from me. Yeah. And then I started flying around. And then I started losing traction. And one point the screen goes black. Yeah. My heart just drops back. 26:01 Kerry Newsome Yeah. And I find I get that little bit of anxiety with it because I go through that euphoria. Oh, wow. Because I can see what it's seeing and what I'm capturing. So I'm getting excited. But then I'm going, oh, holy hell, this is like a kilometer away or whatever. I've got to kind of get it back. Otherwise, my just anxiety levels just go through the roof and I don't enjoy it then. But in those few moments when I'm really hot or and I'm following a ravine or a river or going around places and behind mountains and things like that, I've done that and yes, it's exciting, but it's a bit scary because you don't want it to crash or not be able to bring it back. 26:46 Alright Anton Just one of the most just one of the most useful lessons that I got from my experience. You know, when you carry your camera, you have this mindset, OK, I need to get in the place and just film around everything I see. That's your mindset. And with drone, it's absolutely different. And I just I'm learning this now that the key point is that you need to find a good vantage point that is like there's no obstruction around you. So it can be maybe 500 meters away from what you actually want to film. But if it is a little bit elevated and there is no walls, no buildings, no mountains, that's like a perfect spot to lift off and film because it would make this mistake. Get very close to the place. And then there is a wall, a brick wall. 27:29 Kerry Newsome And one of the other tips, I don't know that whether you think this is worthwhile, but you almost have to do a little bit of a reconnaissance trip. Don't you think like you can't just kind of arrive and think, oh, yeah, this is just going to be a cinch. Off we go. No, no problems. You almost have to go and do a bit of a surveillance of the area, pick some vantage points where people are not. Do you agree? 27:53 Alright Anton Oh, yeah, totally, totally. 100 percent like the best footage you can make only if you go to the place for a couple of days, just walk around, look what's around, like check the mountains, views, scenery, and then after that, you film stuff. You can get to do it. And that's what I'm going to do in April. I'm going to go to Ha Giang and it's getting my second trip. Like I went there in October, last October. I filmed something, but it was my first trip. So, it was like, well, is this the spot? Is this great? I mean, we need to go further now. I know. So I'm going to go in April and spend like more than a week there. I'm going to film everything there. So, I have time to stop. I know some place that I want to film now. And, you know, but I mean, I live in Vietnam. I had this luxury of, you know, going first and then second. But then the same thing with Koh Samui, I spent like in Thailand, I spent a week there. And yeah, first two or three days were just walking around. And the third, fourth day I just filmed everything. And the footage was amazing. But because I kind of did the recon and I knew where should I go to talk to people? Like, where's the beautiful spot? 29:03 Kerry Newsome Yeah, because that was going to be my next question in just, you know, do you kind of seek out the locals because they always know the great spots? And do you kind of get some advice from them as to help you pick those places and times of day and you should come back in September or something like that? 29:23 Alright Anton Yeah, I think somebody told me before that, oh, well, this is for that season…. 29:32 Kerry Newsome Yeah, I know. Didn't you read that somewhere or listen to a podcast that could have told you that? 29:37 Alright Anton Yeah, yeah, I should. I mean, with drone footage, I actually never really asked anybody because I think it's well, I did, but I not with the local, like with the expats who lived in the area. And I asked them about the rules and regulations, like in Thailand and sometimes in Vietnam to like, where could I go? I would ask them for direction and ask for the places because locals usually know it better. And in Vietnam, things don't really get updated on the Internet. So, you can't really always rely on the Internet and believe whatever they say there, because things change dramatically and people don't always change it on the Google. So you can look at the place and the world can be open, but then you go there is closed and there were, for example, like in the Danang, there is this beautiful temple with Lady Buddha statue and then there's a little peninsula that goes around it. And I thought, wow, this is so nice to go there. Like a beautiful peninsula, like a bit hilly road. And then, no, I couldn't because there was this guy standing and he said, like, no, you're not allowed because you're on a fully automatic motorbike. Only semi-automatic motorbikes are allowed to go to that peninsula for some reason, because as far as I understood, like the terrain there is kind of challenging. So in a fully automatic motorbike, no. So if I had talked to somebody in the Danang, then I would have known probably. So, yeah, it's important. I always talk to locals because they especially like in the hotel, in the hostel, they always know some things that are not on internet. 31:14 Kerry Newsome I think challenging around that region that you're talking about in Sontra is there's a military base also that was very strong there for a while. And I think still part of it is. So I've been tempted to go around, but I've got a shake of head by local police or whatever, saying, like, don't even think about it, you know. So, yes, so it is it is a nice Hai Van pass and all that is awesome. So that would be a great place. So that leads to what places have you filmed that you highly rate so far? I know you've got a few on your list coming up, but what are the ones that you've done so far that are really great? 32:00 Alright Anton Ninh Binh is magnificent. It's just unbelievably beautiful. And like, you know, they compare it to Ha Long Bay and Ha Long Bay is also amazing. But the thing is that Ha Long Bay is on the water. So you film, you need to be on the boat usually, and you kind of restrict it. You can easily walk around to get a better spot. No, you can restrict it. It's amazing. But in Ninh Binh, yeah, you just cycle around and it's fast. It's amazing. Those vast mountains are so beautiful. And like, yeah, the first video I made with my drone was from Ninh Binh and it just it's I couldn't get enough of it. And, you know, there's this point when you're just sitting there, you film and you're realizing, wow, this is unbelievable. This is so beautiful. And yeah, that's one of the best places. Ha Long Bay, I'm going to go there again. 32:56 Kerry Newsome But it's… It is. And I mean, all the photography I've seen, you know, that adds up, absolutely. And I've had people on the show that run tours, Flipside adventure tours, the guys there run motorbike tours and things around. And just the way he spoke, Tom Stone, you know, how he spoke about that area, you could just tell he was just so passionate. And it just came through in everything he said. So I would think Ha Giang and I think places like Mu Cang Chai. I mean, you're sitting in the best seat in Hanoi. I mean, you can go kind of left or right or wherever. You've got plenty of choices up there because I think the scenery is definitely more extensive. There's more of it in the north than the south. And yeah, it's just got those jaw dropping vistas, really, aren't they? So you've got some projects coming up and I know everyone will want to see them. So tell us what you've got in store for yourself. Where are you going to head? 34:03 Alright Anton It's just I spend a lot of time on creating a video. I am a bit of a perfectionist and it doesn't really go well along with YouTube. They want people to post every week very regularly. I don't like that. And that's why my number of my subscribers are very low. But I stick to my strategy. I spent like two months, like one video because I also have a full- time job. So two months is one video. And I travel a lot. So I have a collection of places that I need to still process. Right now, working on one in Hoi An is going to be amazing. One of my favorite places. Yeah, I got just two more weeks to make it. Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's one of my most favorite places in Vietnam. And yeah, I made really nice footage there and a nice story. So that's yeah, that's in progress. But then I also have Nha Trang, I've got Ha Long Bay. What else? Well, in Thailand, Penang in Malaysia. Well, Thailand. I'm going to make a video about Bangkok Hotel. There's like a really strange and unusual hotel. It's called The Atlanta. And it's like really old. It's like one of the oldest hotels in Bangkok. And I stayed there for like four days. I just was running around. It's outstanding. It's got like the oldest swimming pool hotel in Bangkok. It's called The Atlanta. And they kept the design and style. I feel like it's still very, very old, but very well maintained. Then Koh Samui. 35:43 Kerry Newsome So there's about like six or seven videos waiting, waiting to be edited. I can understand. What about places like the Mekong Delta? And you've got Can Tho, Con Dao Islands, Phu Quoc? 35:54 Alright Anton Been to Phu Quoc, it's nice, but at that time I didn't have my drone. So I'll definitely go there again because it's such an easy island to get to. And it's just so nice and relaxing. Con Dao, I haven't been there yet. It's in my plans. So when I go there, I'll definitely… The same thing with the Mu Cang Chai. I haven't been there yet. That's just one of the ideas where I want to reach at some point in the future. Because Vietnam has so much to offer. It's unbelievable. I lived in Malaysia before this for three years and it's great. It's awesome. But then one of the drawbacks is that the number of the places where you can go is kind of limited. Like in Peninsular Malaysia, there would be maybe eight spots where you can go. Approximately. Yeah, nice. But then Vietnam has over 20, 30 places that are just amazing. And that's partially why I'm in Vietnam. I left Malaysia during the Covid period and everything was very restricted and closed. So I couldn't really travel much. So I headed to Vietnam because I got all these opportunities to travel to Hanoi and North. 37:18 Kerry Newsome It's so beautiful. And I mean, you haven't mentioned Sapa. Have you been to Sapa yet? 37:22 Alright Anton Yeah, once. It was it was actually kind of funny story because I did this trip to Sapa in 2019 just before Covid and it was the year when I bought my motorbike. So I got my motorbike. I started driving motorbike for the first time in my life in Malaysia. And I was like, cool. Now I know how to ride a motorbike. So I had a long holiday in December, like one month. And I thought, cool, I'm going to do a trip across Vietnam from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh on my own. And then my friends were like, yeah, can you really get through? No, this, you know, like, no, it's not safe. I don't know? And I was very enthusiastic, but then I decided, OK, fine, fine. OK, I'm going to do Sapa. So I decided to do Sapa trip on my own, my first trip. And it was it was hardcore because it's a long way. It's like over 300 kilometers and I'm not experienced. So, I was I was naive. I thought I would get from Hanoi to Sapa in one go. And like everything's going to be cool because I did some trips in Malaysia. But Malaysia and Vietnam are very, very different. Yeah, like Malaysia is the highway. So you can go like 110 kilometers per hour. And it's easy. It's safe because the roads are built for that. You can go 140, 150. It's just straight. And, you know, there's a lot of space for manoeuvre. Vietnam, like, no, 60 feels dangerous. And so, yes, I had to stop in the middle, like in Yen Bai, because it was too much. And then I had my first motorbike accident there. I fell and I slipped. And, yeah, I got a little bit bruised. And like it was just, you know, first time experience in my life. Like, oh, my goodness, what am I going to do? And I fell. My bike wouldn't stop. My knee was bruised. And there was this Vietnamese guy who just ran to me and helping me. Like, I put on bandages, clean my wounds, like do stuff. And I was like, oh, well, and he wouldn't speak English at all. Like we were just, you know, trying to exchange with gestures. And I like want to offer some money because he helped me a lot. He checked my bike, you know, because I was in a bit of a shock. And when you fall, the hands were trembling and he was so kind. And he's still like, go there, go there, fix your bike. And they fixed my bike. And then it was it happened just, you know, there's this bottleneck road on the way to the winding road. So just I fell right at the beginning of it. So I fell, got injured, bruised, but then I still had to go all the way up. 40:00 Kerry Newsome And especially you're probably in shock and you're riding that bike. Oh, my goodness. Oh, I know people have very adventurous ideas about with motorbikes, but I've heard too many bad stories that, you know, and especially that trip that you're talking about from Hanoi down to Ho Chi Minh. Oh, my gosh, that is fraught with danger. I don't think I know anybody that's done that trip that hasn't ended off the bike at some point, because, as you say, 60 kilometers is fast in some of those areas and the roads not all the best. So when you got to Sapa, was it worth it, like in your mind, did it kind of meet expectations? 40:28 Alright Anton . It was strange. So like I reached it and I reached it really late, exhausted. And, you know, again, I was like it was my first trip in Vietnam on my own. Super naive. I was like, yeah, it's going to be cool. I like these kind of holidays. But again, like now I'm more experienced and now I kind of know what to expect and what to look into. But then, yeah, so I got injured and I didn't book a hotel. I didn't do anything. I was I didn't I didn't do research. I didn't do anything. I just like, yeah, let's go and see how it goes. So I get there and it's cold. It's like there are all these construction sites and everything. And I get into a hotel and it's freezing. There's like no insulation, no central heating. I'm shaking because, you know, like my bruises and everything and the water is cold. It was like, oh, this is a disaster. And I didn't like that sound. It was like, no, no. So I started Googling. Finally, I decided to check on the internet. So what's good? And then I then I Google this place. I think it's a village down from Sapa, basically like 30 minutes ride a motorbike. Motorbike again was exciting. So I decided to go there. So I get on the bike, go down. The road is terrifying. It's just muddy road. And, yeah, I was I was scared. I was so scared. I was thinking my worst fear was that whatever starts raining because this muddy road was dry. So I could get through. But if it is wet and I know I was injured, so I was thinking, wow. It's I was terrified. But that village was amazing because it's located in the valley. And so these huge mountains are round the waterfalls and fields. It is so beautiful, so quiet, so peaceful, you know, and just, you know, it's a village. So everything's kind of simple. You just walk around and go for a little hike. Most of the time, I we're just like in my hammock and just staring at the mountains. And it was that was enough that that was perfect. 42:45 Kerry Newsome I was thinking about your bike trip up to Ban Gioc, I'm not saying that right, either. 42:51 Alright Anton The big waterfall that's on the Chinese border there right at the top. I mean, to this waterfall that you mentioned, I think it's said like “Bunzop” but it's because northern and southern accents are different. So in the south, they'll pronounce in the one way in the north and another way. But when you go to the very north, the border, they'll have some different accents. It's very confusing. But yeah, that waterfall. Yeah, yeah, it's really beautiful. I'm a little bit concerned about flying my drone there because it's right on the border with China. So actually, I think it might be really easy to lose the drone. I have seen people filming with drone there and flying just, you know, around the waterfall. But I feel it might be dangerous. And I heard people were asking not to fly a drone. I couldn't understand why, because, I mean, just across the river, there's Chinese border, you can see all those Chinese walking around. And yeah, but I made a video about it. It was I was really lucky because it's in the middle of the covid outbreak. There was like a little break, like a month break when they eased the restrictions and just got a taxi and went there and was empty. Like the video about it is amazing. It's my channel, too. But any last minute tips for my drone flyers that come to Vietnam? Like when you're filming mountains or buildings, well, OK, let's say mountains. Don't fly over the mountain and behind. That's one of the things that I just need to remember. Like I when I lift off, I want to be like in the middle, like in the valley. And then I fly around the valley. Then the connection doesn't get cut off. But if you see a beautiful mountain and decide to fly above, then it's very easy to lose the drone. I had a couple of these nerve wrecking experiences when the connection goes away. And then normally, normally the screen goes black, but it doesn't mean that you have lost control of your drone, so you can also see like in the corner, there'll be like a small map that shows you where is the drone. You can actually see the drone still follows your controls. So it means like the broadcast has been interrupted, but you still have the control of the drone. So in this case, I'll just turn around, go up and then go back as fast as possible. Yeah, that would be better up to try to regain connection and then return because you still usually have control and then there is automatic. That's always my side card. And you can set the. Yeah, but you need to set the altitude because if you set like 50 meters, it means it will go up to 50 meters and then fly and then land. It's like 20 meters. Yeah, you'll go to 20 meters and then ram into the mountain. So you have to think like what's around. I would not so nice fly like in Hoi An. And I would know that there is not a single building that is taller than 30 meters. It's just very low rise. So I could fly that this is my return point would be like 40. So I know it's even if I lose it. 45:47 Kerry Newsome Yeah, it's a good feature of the of the drone that automatic home button. They should have one installed for everybody on whatever they do on automatic home button. Thank you very much for coming on, Anton. I've loved talking with you and I'm hoping everyone listening has got a few handy tips so they don't either crash into mountains, lose their drone, but still have a wonderful time droning in Vietnam. 46:17 Alright Anton . Thanks a lot for having me, Kerry. It was a great pleasure. It was lovely to talk to you. Alright Anton Danang Video - https://youtu.be/ifTbSl3mgAA Alright Anton Ninh Binh video - https://youtu.be/-z4MNMApXmw Alright Anton Cao Bang – Ban Gioc Waterfall - https://youtu.be/8L0Q0El8mOw

S5-E14 - Phong Nha. Family fun for everyone S5-E14 - Phong Nha. Family fun for everyone Episode 14 S5-E14 - Phong Nha. Family fun for everyone 00:00 / 36:17 Hey there, fellow adventurers! Today's episode comes straight from my recent Out & About escapade in Phong Nha, and let me tell you, it's a tale worth sharing – but we'll save that for another day. For now, I'm dedicating this special episode exclusively to families, because trust me, you're in for a delightful surprise once you discover all the incredible activities beyond the caves. Believe me, you won't want to miss out on this "life-changing" experience – one kid even described it as "EPIC"! Today, I have the pleasure of chatting with Ben Mitchell, an all-around family man and the mastermind behind the beloved Phong Nha Farmstay. Nestled in northern central Vietnam, Phong Nha is the perfect blend of rich history, cultural immersion, and unforgettable family fun. Plus, it's conveniently situated halfway between the bustling hubs of Hoi An and Hanoi, making it a an adventure in itself getting. What makes Phong Nha truly shine is its breathtaking natural beauty, boasting stunning landscapes and mesmerizing limestone karsts just waiting to be explored. From cave tours to jungle treks, kayaking to river cruises, there's no shortage of adventures to be had here. And let's not forget about the Phong Nha-Ke Bang National Park, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, home to some of the world's most jaw-dropping caves, including the legendary Son Doong Cave. But wait, there's more! Beyond the caves, Phong Nha offers a plethora of activities like biking through picturesque countryside, discovering the charms of Bong Lai Valley, and soaking in the tranquil rural vibes of Vietnam. And lets not forget the Duck Stop. Trust me, the journey to these wonders is just as incredible as the destinations themselves, with each day trip offering a chance to learn, explore, and immerse yourself in the beauty of Phong Nha. Ben really opens up about the kinds of experiences he has witnessed families have during their stay. Okay, it's time to seize the moment! Whether you're tuning in with your earbuds or blasting it through your stereo this weekend, get ready to be inspired. Ooops - I nearly forgot to mention. Contact The Phong Nha Farmstay to book directly; mention this podcast, and receive - One FREE dinner for two adults at the Chefs Table- Mon/Wed/Friday. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S5-E9 - Out and about in Saigon S5-E9 - Out and about in Saigon Episode 09 S5-E9 - Out and about in Saigon 00:00 / 33:06 Hello, I'm Kerry Newsome, and welcome to my podcast, "What About Vietnam." In this episode, I'm thrilled to introduce you to a mini-series "Out & About in Vietnam" that will take you along on my holiday adventures in Vietnam. Over the next 60 days, I'll be sharing my experiences, destinations, and the fascinating people I meet along the way. Today, we're starting with "Out & About in Saigon”, my first stop on this journey. Vietnam is a country that benefits from research and preparation, and through this podcast and series, I aim to help you navigate the overwhelming amount of information out there. I also wrote an Ebook and self published it on Amazon to help guide your plans. Cheap as chips, you can buy HERE, and read it in a day. As a precursor, as you will hear in the show, please double-check your visa details meticulously. See my Link HERE which explains the process for E-Visa to ensure you get it right FIRST GO! In Ho Chi Minh City, I recommend taking the first day to orient yourself. Use Apps ( See You Tube I did talking about Apps here ) like Grab for transportation, Exe for currency conversion, and Google Maps for navigation. Decide whether you want to hit the top attractions, explore the outskirts for a taste of history and nature, or simply wander the streets and get lost in the local scene. Stay tuned for more episodes in the "Out and About" series, where I'll take you to my next destination, Hoi An. You can find all episodes on your usual podcast channels and on whataboutvietnam.com. Thank you for joining me on this adventure, and I look forward to sharing more of Vietnam with you.

 00:01:02 - Purpose of the Mini-Series 
00:01:44 - "Out and About" Series Context
 00:02:06 - Starting with Ho Chi Minh City 
00:03:19 - Importance of Research for Vietnam Travel
 00:11:10 - First Day Orientation Advice
 00:15:28 - Approaches to Exploring Ho Chi Minh City
 00:18:39 - Exploring Ho Chi Minh City's Attractions
 00:21:12 - Day Trips Outside Ho Chi Minh City
 00:23:37 - Personal Approach to Experiencing the City
 00:27:26 - Nightlife in Ho Chi Minh City 

I hope you find this series interesting and helpful.
 Follow along with our social pages as I will post during my journey.
My "Full trip planning" services will resume in July 2024. 
Send me your feedback and questions. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S4-10 Hanoi A Foodies Paradise P2 Hanoi is a foodies paradise - Part 2 Episode 10 S4-10 Hanoi A Foodies Paradise P2 00:00 / 34:05 This is Part two of the series talking with Corrin Carlson, from #thefatpassport Tik Tok fame. Please welcome her back to the program. Corrin Carlson is a prime example of someone who got swooped up by Hanoi’s chaotic diversity and charm. However, while she loves the city,... this show….is without a doubt “all about the food". The dishes. The places to enjoy food. And the districts to visit to expand your culinary horizons. Find out what is truly distinct about Northern Vietnamese cuisine in this episode of the What About Vietnam Podcast. It is a show brimming with lots of helpful and cool information including answers to some of those tough questions related to food that both her and I get asked all the time. Make sure to check out the transcripts for all of the amazing details! Time stamps to help guide you through the show. 3.17 – Frequently asked questions about travel in Vietnam 7.50 – How to best manage your digestive system while trying crazy good food 8.22 – “Sit down” restaurants – Tay Ho and Ho Kiem Lake area 10.39 – Best Afternoon Tea 13.13 – The story behind KOTO restaurant – Social Enterprise favourite 14.47 – Rooftop Bars 16.19 – Bia Hoi food and fun Hanoi 19.53 – Craft Brews to try Hanoi 23.37 – Coffee making class – the story behind Egg Coffee 27.17 – Shopping – some tips on districts to explore 30.07 – Best time to visit Hanoi – Corrin’s recommendation Follow Corrin here – https://www.tiktok.com/@thefatpassport?
https://www.instagram.com/thefatpassport/ Please rate, review and send us your comments. Follow us on facebook here - https://www.facebook.com/whataboutvietnam Follow us on Insta here - https://www.instagram.com/whataboutvietnampodcast/ Follow us on LinkedIN here - https://www.linkedin.com/company/what-about-vietnam/ Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

f95cbcc0-460f-45ef-a101-7e7674afa267Unrivaled golfing experiences and locations What About Vietnam - 2 - 11 Greg Norman isn't the only one raving about Golf in Vietnam Kerry: Xin Chao and welcome to What About Vietnam. Today in our episode, we explore Vietnam as a golfing holiday destination, and we take the journey with the lovely Chrissy Hordern who joined me on a familiarization tour back in May 2019. Now, while Vietnam has over 60 courses to choose from, our focus was on central Vietnam. Vietnam is certainly popping up on the radar as a major golfing destination. Let me assure you, Chrissy Hordern herself has played all over the world and has hosted groups to the U S masters. And she's a very experienced and talented player. She's got a lot of knowledge and I think the kind of person to give you some qualification, just on how the courses do compare with the ones that she's played within other countries. Chrissy herself is a tour host, and ambassador for Teed Up Golf in Australia and as I mentioned, a very talented player and in the group really gave everyone some stick during the 10 days that she was with the group, and enjoying the courses in Vietnam. I think to give the listener who is a golfer, the information they need to decide, you know, what about Vietnam as a golfing destination, Chrissy will have a lot to offer you. You'll soon pick up I don't play golf, but as I was the Vietnam host, it was my job to show her my Vietnam, which just quietly I think she fell in love with. Golfers stay tuned we are up early and about to tee off, welcome to the show, Chrissy Hordern. Chrissy Hordern: Thank you, Kerry, great to be with you this afternoon. Kerry: We've got a lot to get through and you know, really going to be picking your brains, but I'm going to start right at the beginning and I'm going to start when you got the invitation to come to Vietnam. What did you think about that idea? Firstly, first impressions. Chrissy Hordern: Well, I was really excited about the possibility of going to Vietnam. Because as you said, I'd never been to Vietnam before and actually I have very limited experience really in golfing in Asia and I know that Vietnam is an increasingly popular golf destination. So, I was keen to go and experience it really, it was a wonderful invitation and one that I jumped at and was lucky enough to get a seat on. Kerry: Great. And I was glad to have you for two reasons. One, because you had traveled extensively around the world playing golf and as you say, your experience in the Indochina region was fairly limited in this area. So, first impressions of Vietnam for you were? Chrissy Hordern: Well, I guess in a nutshell it was wonderful, how many days? 10 days, 7 days and I actually can't wait to go back. Unfortunately for COVID that's been a bit of a spanner in the works just for right now, but I'm keen to get back there and take people back there as soon as it's possible to travel. I had a great time, I absolutely loved it and I guess first impressions it's busy, it's everything you expect from Asia. I think there were 90 million motorbikes or 130 million motorbikes in Hoi An city. Kerry: You can usually add so many zeros to that and that will probably be close. Chrissy Hordern: So, yeah, it's out of control, but you know, the great part about that is that once you actually get on a golf course, or once you get to a spa or a retreat you can just step out of the craziness and into luxury and just have this wonderful combination of everything. Kerry: So, our first stop is Hoi An and we're going to use Hoi An as a bit of a base to play two courses; Vinpearl Nam, Hoi An, and Montgomerie links. So, Chrissy Hordern tell us a little bit about your stay at the Nam Hoi An resort and those courses that we played from that hotel as the base. Chrissy Hordern: Well, the Vinpearl resort was a great place for us to be based really. I mean, it's on the coast right on the beach there and there's a thousand miles of coastline in Vietnam and this is a fantastic sort of part of it. It's a very big hotel, I think it's about 430 rooms and a hundred add villas where we stayed, and they were really well appointed. And you know, it's got all those facilities that you want from a big hotel. So, it's got gyms, spas, pools, all that sort of thing. And located in close proximity to the golf courses, so that was a great place for us to be. Personally, I guess I'd probably prefer something smaller, but for a golf holiday and particularly if you've got a short period of time and you just focused on that one sort of area, I'd say it's a great spot to be. Kerry: And it's in an ideal location from a transport perspective to access the courses that we played as it's about 20 minutes out of the actual old town itself. The Nam, Hoi An Golf Club or the course itself is actually right at the resort, along with a Safari park and Nam Hoi An land, which is a bit of a mini–Disney land. I mean, it's a space, all of it, let's be truthful there. So, we were able to get you onto the course nice and early and very easily, because you were actually staying at the resort to actually access your play on your first day. So, it was a new course, wasn't it? It was about a year old. Chrissy Hordern: Yeah, the other great thing is that it's located pretty close to Danang and to the airport. So, it was actually a quick hop when we actually arrived in, which was fantastic as well. We got in pretty late, so that was great, it wasn't a long journey to actually get there. Yeah, the golf course the Vinpearl Golf course is within the resort. It's about a five-minute drive and that was fantastic. You know what, I think if you going on a golf trip, probably that's a really good golf course to kind of launch your holiday. It's a link style course, it's relatively new, it's built on sand dunes as links courses are, it's got nice and a generous fairway, and it's just a really nice golf experience. So, as I say, a nice place to start and instantly, you sort of introduced to golf in Vietnam with the caddies that are there. And they are predominantly. I am not sure if it's mandatory to have a caddy in Vietnam, but I would say to people, you know, don't even think about not having one. It's all part of the Vietnam experience. And they're predominantly women, they're gorgeous, they go out of their way to help you. I think costs 140,000 dong, which is about $8.50 to actually secure a caddy. And that just bear in mind that that amount of money just goes to the administration. So, that doesn't really go as far as I understand, I don't think most of that goes to the caddy. So, they are then reliant on about a 20 us dollar tip at the end, and they work incredibly hard for the $20 tip. So, they'll guide you and make sure that you don't go down the wrong path, they'll stand at the tee and tell you the best direction to hit off the tee. They may never have had around a golf in their entire life, but they have been trained within an inch of their lives on where to hit for each shot on that specific golf course and also, they can just read those greens impeccably. And they know that their tip is probably based on how many putts you seek. So, I'd say put your trust in them and you'll putt really well. In fact, I don't think I've ever had better in my life, they were fantastic and they'll, they'll get water for you, they'll steer the cart, they'll get food, they'll do all those sorts of things. And at the end of the round, they'll give you a little paddle that has their name on it and you basically, you're invited to put the pedal into a box and I think there's about four boxes and so you are rating them. So, if you had an excellent experience, you put it in box one, if you had a not such a great experience, you put it in box four. So, they're working really hard to get their name in box one. There must be some sort of incentive program associated with that, I don't know possibly that the people who are rated number one or that the caddies that are rated number one, maybe given the best and high net worth players when they come individually or whatever. But anyway, it all helps to really maximize the level of service they over deliver. And it's a great part of that experience and very cheap. Kerry: And let's face it that's kind of a unique aspect to playing golf. Isn't it in Vietnam? I mean, definitely that's a kind of a personality to it. It adds I think just some uniqueness to it and as you say, like the stories about the paddle, that's the first time I'd heard about that. I know they work hard for their, for their tips and for any praise that they get just lap it up. But I think just how they feature in the whole game experience is unique to Vietnam. Chrissy Hordern: Definitely, and, you know each course has its own crew of caddies that have a different uniform. So, and they're gorgeous, like for instance, at Montgomerie links, they've got, what I'd assume is the Montgomerie Tartan from Scotland. And so, that features very much in the you know, in the caddy uniform, but it’s got its own sort of Vietnam flavor. So yeah, it really is, I think a very special part of the experience. Kerry: So, moving from the Vinpearl Nam, Hoi An Golf Club, the next day we played Montgomerie links. So, tell us just a little bit about that course. I mean, it's been designed by the golfer Colin Montgomerie who you would know all about, but tell us about that course. Chrissy Hordern: Well anyone who is a golfer and has been playing as long as I have, knows Monte really well. I mean, he's a legend of the game. And clearly, he loved Vietnam and being from Scotland, you know, the opportunity to create a golf course, that's on the coast there, and a link style course was obviously really up his alley. And I think he's probably very proud of it. It’s set at the foot of the Marble Mountains sort of on the central coast and from various halls, you can actually see the Marble Mountain. Whereas Vinpearl is in an area where there's a lot of construction happening and so, I guess what you're seeing on the horizon at Vinpearl, although it's a really great golf course the surrounds maybe not quite as attractive, but once you start to get to courses like Montgomerie links the scenery really starts to become a feature. And yeah, I mean, there's more water holes that you'd normally find on a traditional links course in Scotland. And the pot bank, well they're nothing like they are in Scotland. They're more sort of, I guess, wasteland, which is probably a really good thing. But yes, it's a world-class course, it's very, well-regarded, it's got lots of facilities, it's got a wonderful golf clubhouse and a PGI Academy, that kind of thing. So, I would say a golf trip to Vietnam is probably not a golf trip without, including Montgomerie links. Kerry: So, we were staying as we mentioned out at the resort, which has a little bit of inconvenience as far as transport is concerned into the old town. So, it's about a 15-to-20-minute trip back into the old town. We did spend a couple of nice nights, if you recall, in the old town. I certainly enjoyed taking you on a river cruise where we had dinner on the cruise, but you tell your experience of Hoi An and the old town experience. Chrissy Hordern: Yeah, look, I loved the old town of Hoi An, and I guess if I was taking a group of people back there personally, that's where I would elect to stay. Look at it as you say, it's a UNESCO world heritage site now. It's being renovated, I think sort of very much for a showcase really for the tourists, but it's not, I don't think it's kitsch at all. I think it's just got a wonderful charm; it's located on a river that was say in the old days was a flourishing port and a meeting place of East and West, and you still get that feeling there that the people who live there, I think are very proud of it. You've got museums, assembly halls, temples, a lot of the old homes have sort of wooden doors and carved things and open airy rooms. And many of those have been sort of, I guess, converted into fun restaurants and things. You've got rooftop bars, it's a lovely atmosphere. And I think it's been really well restored, and some gorgeous hotels and I think a great place to stay. Kerry: And it's walkable, isn't it? Like, it's easy to wander around. It hasn't got the chaos of a major city, like Saigon. Chrissy Hordern: No, not at all, it's easy to walk around, Kerry: But you might have to step over a few wires here and there. Chrissy Hordern: Not just the wires there are street vendors everywhere. And yeah, as we said 50 million motorbikes and that kind of thing, but it's not actually as you said, it's not as chaotic as the big cities. I mean, its just built on a whole other level. But I just think it's got a wonderful charm, you could walk everywhere, you can go to restaurants, the bars were fun, you know, you can have tailoring done. There's a lot to do for non-golfers, for instance, if you've got people with you who are non-golfers, they can happily fill in several days, I think you know, in the old city of Hoi An and certainly not run out of things to do. Kerry: Definitely, and I think also it's very much, well from my perspective. Anyway, it seems to create a different atmosphere at night, like with the lanterns. How did you find that atmosphere? Because that's quite an experience. Chrissy Hordern: It's very special, I just loved it. And that's why for me, I think that it has a lot more charm and character than probably you sort of staying on the coast. Yeah, can't wait to go back really. Kerry: That makes two of us. So, as far as the heat is concerned, how did you find the heat? Now you'd had two days playing, we did manage to play early in the morning, and I think that's probably worth mentioning, but how did you go with the heat and how did, how did the people you were playing with go with the heat? Chrissy Hordern: Some managed it better than others but look I'm a bit of a Queensland girl these days, so to be honest, I have to say that I think I coped with it pretty well. We were there in May, which means its starting to get hot, it was hot. I can't remember, but it would have been late thirties every day and if you're not used to the humidity, which I'm used to it so if you're not, it's a challenge. The great thing about the golf of course, is that you're in carts all the way, and the caddies will have ice with them. And they'll have these funny little sort of ice pouches that just fit in around your neck, which are fantastic, and they keep filling those up at ice stations and things. Kerry: And umbrellas. Chrissy Hordern: And umbrellas and they hold an umbrella over your head when you're going onto the green, etc. I was absolutely fine but again, if I were taking a group of people back there, I probably would go earlier than May. Because you know, a lot of people would find it challenging and some of the people actually in our group found it challenging and actually towards the end, I think a couple elected not to play the final round golf, crazy I don't know why they did that. But I think a lot of that was actually just really due to the heat. Kerry: Struggling due to the heat. Chrissy Hordern: Yes, absolutely. Kerry: And I think, when I talk to people and they are considering going, I do try and encourage them to go earlier in the year, you know, around the, the kind of March, April, probably latest as the best time of the year. Because let's face it, you want to enjoy the experience, you don't want it to be unbearable out there. And if everybody's wanting to play early while you're going to struggle to get that tee times that you want. So, I think sharing with our listeners, if we can encourage them to go earlier in the year, I think that's the best idea. Chrissy Hordern: Yeah, well I think correct me if I'm wrong. But I think the rainy season is actually from May through September, so you want to avoid the rainy season and the heat. So yeah, absolutely. I would say probably depending on where you go, of course, North or South it differs a little bit, but you probably February, March would be ideal February, March early April. But I know people that have gone in October, November and really enjoyed it as well. Kerry: Being in October at the moment which I believe Hoi An is flooding. So, you know, it's a bit “ luck of the draw.” Countries that live on that part of the globe, but yeah, who knows. Now we went on to Ba Na Hills after this. And we, we went up to the Ba Na Hills theme park, but we also played then at the Ba Na Hills golf club, which is kind of at the base almost of the Ba Na Hills theme park. Maybe tell us a little bit about that experience. Chrissy Hordern: Ah, Ba Na Hills was wonderful and I think more like Montgomerie links, I put it as a definite on your list of courses as its designed by a PGA tour player Luke Donald. And I think it's actually Luke's first golf course design and one that he should be really proud of and it's managed by IMG, so, it's a pretty sort of sleek operation. It's located in the foothills of Ba Na Hills. And look, it's won lots of awards, it's set amongst impressive mountain ranges, it's challenging, it's exciting. And really the two nines are quite different than the first nine is sort of say Parkland with a bit of forest and the back nine sort of weave its way through the hillside. So, it's got some blind holes as well, as certainly some blind shots up on the greens. You’ve got no idea where the hell you are going that's why you kind of rely on your caddy, where do I hit? So, actually, I mean, I was just itching to go back and play it again. Because once you actually played it once, you know, you do have a better idea of where you're going, yeah, that was certainly a really special experience. They've also got look, there's a mix of playing lengths there and what I mean by that is there's various tees. So, you can either elect to hit off a longer tee or a, or a shorter tee. And so, for the higher handicappers, for instance, for the women there is a much shorter tee to hit off, to make the round, I guess, more enjoyable for those that are going to take a few more shots than those on a lower handicap. And I think that's a great thing actually about, Vietnam really and golf in Vietnam is that it's a fantastic destination for golfers of all abilities. The lower handicappers will be really challenged, but the higher handicappers have an equally enjoyable experience. And you know, other destinations in the world are not quite so user-friendly particularly for those on a higher handicap. Kerry: And what would you say because when we think about golf and certainly from a planning and a tour perspective. First things come to mind to me is kind of a bunch of guys getting together and going away on a trip, you know, kind of a bit of a boys trip. I mean, how would you rate Vietnam and your experience of that, is it the place for the boys trip? You know, are they going to get to do what they want to do there. And maybe speak a little bit to the entertainment side of it. Chrissy Hordern: Sure, well I mean, it's a great destination for groups of boys who may be celebrating a 40th birthday or a 50th birthday, or I don't know, just having a boys week way. And I think you can actually go for a week if you were just going for a week, I'd say, just go to somewhere for instance, like you Hoi An or Danang, and play all the courses in or around that one area don't try and do too much. And so, you could have a great week of golf and you know, the food and beverage side of things is look, the foods absolutely fantastic and alcohol is very, very cheap, particularly beer, if you’re a beer drinker. So, it is one of those destinations that really, you're not worried about your credit card statement when you get home, it's a very inexpensive destination. You'd almost have to say that really, it's a first world experience probably at more third world prices in a lot of instances. That may change there's so much construction things going on. You kind of feel like Vietnam it's about to go to a whole new level. Kerry: Yeah. Chrissy Hordern: It does have that feeling and so I guess part of me thinks I really want to get back there soon before, you know, while it's still really authentic. And that's the part I still love about it now is that it's still that way, although there's so much of the old new, and a lot of new is happening it still feels like a very authentic experience. So, yes great for the boys' trips and great for couples too sort of traveling together and there's really, there's accommodation to sort of Absolute luxury and style, or you can... and it's still very affordable. Or you can stay in a really nice hotel that's really pretty cheap. Kerry: Yes, and I think the fantastic thing about Vietnam, it does offer that range. I mean you can spend a hundred dollars a night and get four-star quality. And I think that's quite rare. I mean, if you would agree with me…. in Australia, four-star is pretty average, a four-star hotel or a three-star hotel is not flash at all. Where four-star over there is still pretty flash. Five-Star obviously I think for what you pay in Vietnam and because depending on the rate of exchange, what dollar you're using, you are getting a good bang for your buck kind of thing. It's buying you a lot more in Vietnam than it is in say, if you exchange rates into Europe or the U S etc., Because you're losing so much on the exchange rate where you're gaining in most cases in Vietnam. Chrissy Hordern: Sure, I mean, I think it's a very affordable destination, you know what I mean. I go to a lot of places in the world, you know, for instance you know, I take groups into the U S masters for instance, and as much as sort of every golfer probably has that on their bucket list to once in their life go to the U S masters, I'd say, you know what, absolutely do it, if you can. Financially, it really is out of reach for a lot of people and even a lot of Iconic golf courses in the U S are out of reach. I mean, for Pebble Beach, now probably it's about 600 us, it's very difficult to access unless you're actually staying at the lodge at Pebble Beach. So, you know those things really if you're going away with a group of mates, for instance, that's just for the most groups, it's just not a possibility, ….whereas you can go to Vietnam and you can have a really great time and it's just not going to cost you a lot and it's going to be accessible a lot more people. Kerry: Sure, now we did a little detour while we were at Ba Na Hills and where did we go, Chrissy Hordern? Chrissy Hordern: We went to this extraordinary French replica village called at the top of Ba Na Hills which was …...look it's at the end of the longest non-stop cable car in the world. And I have to say, I think that was actually the best part of the trip, it's extraordinary. And that was really special and the scenery going up and back is incredible. And at the top you've got sort of this massive Buddha. I think it's about; I don't know how tall it is, it's just absolutely massive. You've got manicured gardens; you've got this fantastic sort of golden bridge that's held up by these giant hands. The giant hand I think they are stone, are they stone? They look like they're stone it's just fantastic. But the whole, the whole experience up there is it's very kitsch, I have to say it is kitsch, but you know what, when I got home and looked at all the photos, they're fantastic. I just go, oh, wow! That's impressive. Kerry: So, I'd say as long as you actually know what you're in for, I'd still, if I had a group of people and half were playing the golf course, I'd still send the others up to Ba Na Hills to have a look at it. Chrissy Hordern: For the day, maybe. Kerry: Yeah, I have a day trip up there. And I think it's actually, it's a nice day trip. Yes, it's got the secret gardens, it's got the funicular up too, as you say, the Buddha, in its original form it was a wealthy retreat for the French when they occupied Vietnam. So, some of that replication of buildings, etc., where we think it looks a little bit, Disneyland is actually taken from its pure origin, which was because it's a lot cooler up there. The French used to try to escape the heat because traditionally they wouldn't have been accustomed to that level of heat. So, going as high as that to get away from it was their plan and they built these little chalets. The Mercure Hotel actually runs and operates, I think about six of these chalets around the actual Hill development, but someone took it over and has converted it into a theme park. So, it's really designed for families and possibly more for Vietnamese to visit who may never get to Disneyland & who may never get to the theme parks that we may be accustomed to in our countries. It was really designed for them. And I think you'll agree that they are 90% along with the Koreans and maybe Taiwanese people who love it as well. I think it's something that they just say is WOW, as they kind of entry pointing to what France or French colonial village may look like. And then some of the other aspects of the gardens and the wine cellars, and things like that. So, that's kind of the background to Ba Na Hills, but I wanted you to experience it. And so, maybe say, okay, well, we've done that, but you know, it probably may not do that together. I know the boys in the group, they weren't overly thrilled, but once again, as I said, well, now when somebody says to you do you want to go to Ba Na Hills? You'll be able to give them a heads up as in to. Chrissy Hordern: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I was so glad we went there and look as you say, it's not about us, you know? And I think different people want different things. And if you actually go up there knowing all those things, and I think if I sent people up there, I'd give them that kind of an intro as to the history and the background of it. I think there's a lot to love about it. So, I think don't rule it out, I think it's just one of those things you have to take it for what it is. Kerry: Take it for what it is. Absolutely. Chrissy Hordern: Exactly. Kerry: So, then we moved on and we headed out to Lang Co to play the Laguna LangCo course. And we stayed at a resort out there, called Vedana Lagoon Resort. Tell us a little bit about your experience with the course and that location that we stayed at. Chrissy Hordern: Well, from Ba Na Hills, we went to Vedana and we played the course the following day, and I think sort of having played sort of three rounds of golf and had a fairly hectic schedule, it was a perfect addition to the itinerary. You know, it was an opportunity to kind of get out of the hustle and bustle in the chaos and actually just stop. And you know It was hot and so, yeah, after sort of three or four days we were tired. So, it was a great place to go. I mean, the resort sits on about 27 hectares I think of land, right on one of the biggest lagoons in the whole of Southeast Asia. I think I'm right in saying that, and it's kind of low key, which is to love about it as well. The accommodation is sort of villas & bungalows, beautifully appointed. They've got their own private sun decks and balconies that sort of lead out onto the lagoon or to a private garden. In fact, the bungalow that I had there was a veranda onto the water and then at the back, there was like almost little courtyard that was covered over in totally private and I had a rain shower there. So, having a rain shower there and just looking up at the stars and actually, I think we had a brief thunderstorm when I was under the shower, which it was just really special, it was absolutely fantastic. So, look it was a great place to just read a book, ride a bike. I had a 90-minute spa treatment, which I think was the best spa treatment I've ever had in my entire life. Kerry: Yes. Chrissy Hordern: The treatment rooms were all on some little bungalows, you know, again, sort of looking out over the lagoon and you had the boats going past with the fishermen in them, that kind of thing. It was just gorgeous and, you know, the dinner we had, I think there were two restaurants, we went to one obviously. And look the food was delicious a really nice atmosphere, but not stitched up or over the top or anything like that. It was just laid back and oh yeah, a lovely experience. I mean, my only regret was that we didn't have more time there to be honest. Kerry: Yes, and I think the time factor is something I want to get to maybe a little bit further down the track during this conversation because time people say, oh, you know go for a week and you can play five courses and all the rest of it, but would you want to push yourself to that kind of level? Is the question maybe I'll ask you at the end, but tell us a little bit about the Laguna LangCo course itself. Chrissy Hordern: Yeah, well another golf course to love as well, designed by another golfing legend, Nick Faldo. Again, it's a link style course, but it's built in natural rugged terrain. There are mountains you've got coastal views. You really feel like you're in Vietnam. So, I loved that there's rice patties and all that sort of thing. So, yeah, I loved that course, and I can't wait. I'd happily go back there and play it time and time again. Kerry: And I think out of the courses that you've got on offer in that what we would call central Vietnam region, we didn't get to play the BIG Danang course. And there's since our trip there has been the opening of Hoiana Shores. So, as you said before, basing yourself in Hoi An or Danang you do have access to a really great range of courses to give you I guess a variety of experiences and a variety of, is the word ambiance, as in you've said many times about Lang Co and Ba Na Hills, like you really felt like I'm really in Vietnam now. I'm in Vietnam and playing in the surrounds, you know, hitting across Paddy fields and things like that. So, we based this tour with you around this central region as a bit of a hub, and would you agree that it would be a good base to spread your wings as far as playing is concerned? Chrissy Hordern: Definitely, I mean, you've always got to leave something for next time and certainly you know, Greg Norman's BG Danang course and Robert Trent Jones Jr. Hoiana Shores as you say, which is new. I mean, they definitely will be on my list for next time. So, yeah, as you say, if you've got a week, probably a week or 10 days, you can easily fill that being based in Danang or Hoi An and playing golf and allowing yourself a little extra time for a day or two off, I think we madly put together golfing itineraries and play six courses in seven days and time and time again, when you've done that, it's really great, but you get to the end and go, oh, I wish we'd had a day off in the middle. So, you know, I think try and mix it up if you can and try and just base yourself in one place, particularly if you've got limited time and I would say that's a great spot to go. Kerry: And I think that was kind of my plan in building in the Vedana resort opportunity. As I just sort of felt that people would look for a little bit of a rest spot from the heat a little bit of chill out time, you know, a chance to be relaxed & kind of take the pace down a tad because you were going to be playing Lang Co the next day. And it had been a bit go, go, go, I felt. But everybody was so excited and keen and everything because you want to experience everything, but as you say, if you get to choose it yourself you might go and you know what, I could've done with just one extra night more and I hear that so much, so many times. Chrissy Hordern: I think so, I mean, if it is the boys group, probably for the 50th birthday, they probably wouldn't be going to the spa resort. And so, it's probably for a slightly older demographic people that have more time. But then again, you are finding younger people going on these trips who actually need to check in with their office, they need to answer emails or be available to take zoom calls or whatever for a day. So, if that's the case, then actually you know, Vedana could be a really good place to have a down day where people can just attend to all those other things that they need to plus have a rest. Kerry: Good idea. So, now we finish up at Lang Co, we then head to Saigon and we're down to our last sort of 24, 48 hours. And you're going to be playing at the Vietnam golf and country club course, which is located in fairly easy access from Saigon. So, we're back into crazy, we're back into a city, which is known for its craziness and you either get amongst it, or you don't. And I think we got amongst it by getting you around the town a little bit, took you to the local markets, Ben Thanh Market, which, you know everybody has to go to Ben Thanh Market, it's just kind of the thing you have to do. So, I think you we embraced that pretty well. And you're able to get all your bits and bobs to take home, you know, gifts and souvenirs, etc. But we managed to fit in also a little bit of extra tailoring, I believe, Miss Chrissy Hordern, just a few extra little things that I think we then shared amongst our luggage, if I recall. Am I right? Chrissy Hordern: Absolutely right and you can go totally crazy, I mean and we did, I bought a lot of stuff and it was fun. I mean, even the trying on things and being measured up and all that sort of stuff. I guess with the beauty of hindsight, I'd say, and you'd probably agree with this, looked Vietnam was a great place to have clothes tailored. I would say, go with a plan, take some of the favorite items with you that you want to have copied or I think I'll just decide when I'm there often, it's just totally overwhelming. And you know, there's so many fabrics and so many designs and things you can often go home with things that you probably might never wear again, really. So, I would say you definitely go with your own stuff and a plan. The other thing is, I'd say, look be aware of going home with too many Ao dais, which are the local dress. The Ao dais look just logo, which is on all of Vietnamese women. You know, everybody from the flight, the crews, all the women they wear them. Even the corporates just have sort of very modern contemporary Ao dais, which is sort of the flowing pants with the long tunic over the top. And to be honest, I thought I looked pretty good in the Ao dais as well. Until I actually got home in sort of contemplating wearing one to dinner and I was like, I shouldn't, you know what it's not really quite working for me. Kerry: Oh, I can relate to that experience totally. And my friends and family go to me “don't wear one of those Ao dais to that party” and I go “what do you mean?” And they go we know that you go crazy with them, but they just don't fit the scene, and I get so disappointed about that. Because you're right, you get kind of drawn into it, don't you? Chrissy Hordern: I think the thing is you're going to have to plan another trip back really to take them back to wear them. I really didn't learn the lesson because after going to Vietnam, I then ventured to India some months later and I've come home with a stash Saree. So, look, if you need a Saree at any time or any of your listeners needs one, give me a call. Kerry: I did the same with the skirts in Myanmar, would you believe I came back with a whole heap of those, which were kind of required to getting into the temples in Myanmarbecause you've got to cover your knees. And I was wrapping these things, massive pieces of cloth, like in Saree, you know, you wrap them around yourself a hundred times. Oh yeah, I'm so glad you got sucked into that as well. But we've got to finish on the last golf course, which is, we stayed at the Nikko Hotel, which was spectacular. Wasn't it? We had a gorgeous dinner on the top floor of the restaurant, it was amazing. But tell us about that course. Would you include the country club in your last course, if you were to go again or would you go somewhere else? Chrissy Hordern: Look just before we get to that, I mean, you know, Saigon was just fantastic and incredibly chaotic. And I think the great thing about the Nikko staying there, which it's obviously a big chain hotels sort of throughout the world, but it was actually a great place to stay because it was located in that sort of district, one of the CBD in really close proximity to everything you need to all the cultural sites to great food, restaurants, all that kind of stuff and wonderful little precincts and all that sort of stuff. So, I would say it was definitely a great place to stay. Kerry: We had a good guide, do you remember? Chrissy Hordern: Yeah, we did, the guide was terrific. And I mean, I guess the one thing people sort of say, oh, did you feel safe traveling Vietnam? I certainly felt safe because we had a guide with us and we had you the whole way, which was fantastic. So, maybe that was a false sense of security. I didn't have the experience of the free independent traveler. However, everybody that I've spoken to who's been to Vietnam has never had a problem there. And I think because tourism is such a huge part, their they rely on it so heavily, economically that really, it's in the interest of the locals and the police to keep you safe. So, aside from, you know, the ATM scam or the taxi driver that might actually, not have the meter running, it's a very safe place, I think to travel. As far as the golf was concerned look, it was a really enjoyable course at the Country Club, it's located pretty close, as you say, it's got two courses in East and West course, we played the West course, it's a tree line, Woodland style course. That was really enjoyable but probably not my favorite. It's hosted the Vietnam open and it's got generous fairways and undulating, grains, all those things. But I don't know, I suppose in comparison to where we played before it, maybe wasn't my favorite, but if you're in Saigon, you've got a set of golf clubs do it. And probably next time, I'd add in Twin Doves, which is about an hour out of Saigon. And I'd also looking forward to playing Long Thanh, which has got 36 holes, it's a different style of course, it's sort of built on former rice paddies as I understand. And I think it sounds fantastic. Kerry: I agree, now as much as I would just love to relive this trip again and go on forever. I wonder if we could just wrap it up by maybe giving our listeners, I don't know, final tips, hints, advice. What would you say to people who are considering Vietnam? I mean, we're talking coming out of COVID people are going to be looking for their next destination. Vietnam is definitely up there in the top, I think 13 or 14 countries named as the best places to visit in 21/22. So, what advice would you share to people and golfers in particular? Chrissy Hordern: Yeah, well, hopefully it is one of the destinations that will open up sort of fairly quickly post COVID. I'd say research where you want to go and particularly look at the weather you know, time, your trip around the best possible time. Kerry: Thank you so much #ChrissyHordern for being on the program. It was really great to relive that trip and to get your insights on probably the more golfing type aspects, because I know we talked a lot about when we came back about your impressions of Vietnam and Hoi An and some of the places we stayed at, but it was just nice to get your kind of golfing insights to some of those courses probably we didn't get a chance to debrief. Look, I'm sure listeners, if you are a golfer, if you're a partner to a golfer, if you're heading up a group of guys who are looking for a golfing destination in the future, I really hope that this episode was able to give you some insights into what you can expect, certainly in the central Vietnam district. Love to get your take on it, if you've already been, I like to say thank you to everyone that's supporting the program. We are really getting to cover some amazing stuff in Vietnam. I'm just so thankful for your support, I know travel just looks like something that doesn't even fit on a calendar at the moment. So, if you can use the program to get information, to help you make decisions in the future, my job is done. Thank you. Please rate, please share if you can, it all goes towards making the program just little bit more special and certainly for me, I truly appreciate it. Until next time. We'll see you in Vietnam.

S4-13 Citizen 44 podswap Sorry no transcript for this episode

S4-24 Take beautiful photos Part 2 What About Vietnam - S4-23 How to capture Beautiful Photos - in Vietnam or anywhere! - Part 2 [00:00:39] Kerry Newsome: Xin Chao and welcome to what about Vietnam? Today, we're going to be continuing with the series with Thomas Levine. And, I hope you're enjoying it. We've really learned a little bit more about Vietnam. And I think some of the attributes of the country that I guess, make it so exciting for people who love to take pictures and certainly learning with Thomas. Now, how to keep our eye in the right place, and use the camera to its best ability, is really going to make those pics extra special. So today is part 2 of this series. There's actually going to be 3 parts. And I'm going to be talking to, , another guest in part 3 about drone photography. So, I hope you'll stay tuned for part 3 in these photographic series. But today we are back with Thomas Levine. And we're going to be continuing the series with him and all of his extra tips. Let's be joined again with Thomas Levine. Let's just jump right back in where we pick up talking about colour and the importance or the role it plays in our photography. [00:02:09] Thomas Levine: Blue the sky, the water you relate to blue in that way. But it's also a very moody colour. It's relaxing. It's a deep thing. It's moody. It's colours have meanings. So green and blue are usually something that are relaxing to people. So, when they see the ocean, they see the sky, a blue sky. They think, oh, this is nice. And so that kind of gives you an overall feeling for the picture, but you want to, depending on what your subject is, if it's a boat or it gets into space. Space is another element. And like I was talking about the yellow with the red, that's a space thing too. The whole space is yellow except for that person with the red. And so your eye automatically goes because of the space. And it really, whatever that subject you have is the space. It's a smaller space and you want everything to support that. And I'm talking like it's very subjective and when you take a picture too, you think, oh, this is a great picture and you have this memory of this place, but you're not being objective because you know what it's like there. The picture will never be what it's like there. You can come up with a great picture, a piece of art, but when you relate it to what it's like when you were there, it doesn't really work. Okay. And this, that's just the way it is. Maybe the picture's great. And it looks better than a, sometimes the pictures look better than when you were there. But for me your memory is filling in the blank and you show this picture to somebody else and they go what is that? You know what it is,because you were there. But when somebody else sees it, they don't know what it is. So a lot times I'll take a picture of something and I want a piece of. If somebody's got their hands or their shoulder in the picture, I know there's a person there. You don't always have to show the whole person or the whole thing. What if it's a car or whatever. You just have to have an idea. Give them an idea of what it is because when they see that, then you know, they're like, oh, okay. It gets some realism into the picture. Yeah. I like pictures of people in some, in a lot of these. It just takes the element of boring out of it, I think. Because really it's all about people. Especially in Vietnam there's, it's a culture. It's a culture shock for some people here. But and there's a lot of different cultures here because there's a lot of different like when you go in the North Vietnam there's all these different villages and they speak different languages. Yeah. But the clothing is incredible. The colours. And sometimes it's hard to take a bad picture of that. But again, it depends on your lighting too. Lighting is another element of art. I, really think lighting is so important. And that will dictate your colours too. If it's low light, your red's not going to look red, it's not going to look bright red. It changes tones, it changes you. You're green, depends on what time of day it is. Might look real green and might not look green because of the sun. So the thing is, when you're there and you're looking at it with your eye makes these adjustments and you think you know what it looks like. And so that camera is going to be a different story. It's going to see what it's going to see. Correct. [00:06:04] Kerry Newsome: Yeah. And I get overly disappointed about that scenario when you are looking at these Green Mountains and there's, they're just rolling in front of you and you go, oh, this has got to be a great time to take the photo. And yet when you take that photo, that depth of colour is just not there because as you say, the sun in some way has put a film over. So, that real vigorous green is taken away or depleted. But I also take your point about people. I get so crazily mad with my husband when he takes a hundred of these photos in the hills and from all these vantage points. Then he goes to tell and show people when he comes back and goes, oh, we walked around here and. It's just boring. All these photos. Look you could have been in the Highlands of Scotland for all they knew because there's just no differentiation. It doesn't click. It doesn't have relativity. And I think that contrast, that's why your story about the red and the yellow, the conical hat that got the focus. Yeah. The hat is one of the best things to photograph here with people wearing them. It tells a story right there. Because it keeps the sun off of them. It keeps them dry, when it rains, it keeps the water off their face. And actually it's got a breathing element to it too, so you don't get as hot. Whoever came up with that, it must have been centuries ago. I don't know. But it was a great invention. Genius. Absolutely genius. Yeah I think speaking to the contrast. I'm always big in trying to get colours that contrast one another instead of, for one of a better word, same. Same because if you're in too much red and too much red is taking, nothing gets the focal point. But if you've got that red against a blue background you've got the red lanterns of Hoi An against Thu Bon River, you've got that contrast. and light is a lot of it. It's not even just the colours, it's also the dark and the light. So if you have that blue and you got the red blue's kind of darker. So that, that, that's a one way to think about it. Don't think just about the colour. It's also about dark and light, and that's the contrast sometimes. You can have a low contrast image. Because it wasn't. Really sunny or anything like that. But if you got some different colours going on in there and it's contrasty, that's a contrast of colour and that'll if you don't have the light, but you got the colour, sometimes you don't need the light like that, like you really want it to. Okay. [00:09:03] Thomas Levine: But there's a, when you do edit because even if you take a picture on a iPhone or a regular smartphone, You can change the hue on it and that, like the green, you can change it a little bit and it'll turn things more green. But the problem is if you overdo it, turn everything green. So it's just a slight change. And to me, I like green. I like, I want to see it's a like green also has this other thing with plants. The older the leaves, the darker, the green the new part of it is brighter. We like the brighter because it's new for some reason. So that's how I look at it. And like I said, your eye is making these adjustments and you don't notice it. The camera doesn't. So if you can change it when you edit it, Then you're compensating for that camera. So, it's not really changing it to where it's for the sake of change, you're changing it for a reason because you're eye, that's the way you see it. And that's the way I like to make a picture, is the way I see it. And you develop that vision, that's the whole thing is you're developing your vision for the camera to be able to take a picture. And that's really what it's about, is seeing because when you start learning more about photography, you start seeing different, you start seeing the light different, everything turned. You can take a, like a, like I took a picture of a, an orange one time and then, nah, it wasn't the great it wasn't, it's just an orange, it was hanging in Florida, it was hanging down the tree. But the light hit it just perfect. And it changes the entire orange. Because it was a low light, it was it was morning and that contrast with the side light and it had fill from the tree. So it wasn't dark on one side. It was darker, but it wasn't dark. Too dark on one side and it just, the light will make a picture. There's a lot of things you can do with photography, but you have to play with it. Yes, and I think the playing with it is a little bit of a challenge for everyone, because I know when you're traveling you're sometimes on a bit of a timetable and you've got either get back on the bus the bus is leaving or you, you're with a group and you may be with a partner. That's, dare I say, not so patient. In you wanting to take, I can vouch for that permanently, but if you're traveling with somebody who is looking to achieve similar photography of a quality that you want to be able to share later or put on your Instagram account or do whatever. It's, it does make a big difference because you have them to chat with and say are you seeing that? Because you're, it's another set of eyes, isn't it. I was going to talk a little bit about Ninh Binh if you want? [00:12:25] kerry Newsome: Okay. Let's talk about some destinations. Yes. Ninh Binh is beautiful. [00:12:29] Thomas Levine: The biggest problem I had, and it's because I had a problem with my camera, but it made me realize that everybody has this problem if you don't think about it. And it's common sense. But when you get on these tour boats, especially with Tam Coc. They row with their feet, so they have a power to it, and it's right in the beginning when they push, you feel that push. Okay? If you're trying to take a picture and that thing's moving, then you have to have a faster shutter speed, but you also have to be able to time when you have the shutter go off. So the best. It is like a athletic event when somebody's playing tennis and they throw the ball up. You want it where that ball is at the peak and so it's staying in the air before it drops and that's when you want to take a picture. It's the same thing with the rowboat. When they're rowing and you feel that push, get ready to take a picture. Because as soon as he is ready or she is ready to pull the back out of the water, that you have a little pause and that's when you take your picture because it's a lot more stable. And it also comes down too when you go on these boats get in the front if you can. Because that's your best pictures. Okay. There's some yeah, it's, I just, I was thinking about it. It's like I don't think about that stuff because I just do it. But this is travel and not everybody takes pictures like I do. I go crazy with the camera. So you have to be able to. Compensate and you have to be able to come up with a good picture and time it just so it's right. Because if you see somebody in another boat coming towards you, you are moving. They are moving, okay, this comes down to shutter speed. So you want to be able to do it when you're at that pause, but they're still moving. You can't say, Hey, stop your boat. I want to take a picture. That's not going to work. [00:14:35] kerry Newsome: How does, how do you do that on your phone? [00:14:38] Thomas Levine: Most of the time I don't think there's too much of a problem because they're not going that fast. But again, you can get an app that will set the shutter speed for you. You can select a faster shutter speed. Because you want like a, like if you have a regular camera, it's two 50th of a second or if something like that, you want it a little faster and sometimes you don't, maybe you don't want them still. Maybe you want them to show a little motion and not be sharp because that they're moving. It depends on what you want. Okay. So. you have to try it both ways. [00:15:13] Kerry Newsome: And when you've over water, what's your thoughts on reflections? And there's some really great reflective pictures that I've seen also, some you've done. Talk to us a little bit about capturing reflection. [00:15:29] Thomas Levine: Okay I call it highlights because highlights something that's reflective like the water. Your eye is going to go to the white part of the picture, okay? And if you have a highlight and the sun's coming in your eye's going to automatically go to that light, okay? So, highlights are good. But if you have too much highlight, then you're going to have a problem with white going into your lens, and then it'll make it softer picture again, it'll look like you're not focused or something like that. But it's hard to do. Not have a thing to refer it to here. But there's also something called the polarizer. If you have a regular camera and you have, you want to see into the water. If the sun is at a 90 degree angle to the water, you can twist this polarizer and it'll actually take most of the reflection out. So you might turn it dark and into the water, but the thing is, some people turn that thing where it's black. And I like highlights to a certain extent. So I think it's good to have some highlight because it's more natural than if it just goes black and you look into the water. [00:16:44] kerry-newsome_2_02-15-2023_145136: Correct. [00:16:45] Thomas Levine: Because I used to do it the other way too. I used to turn it so far that it would take out all the highlights, but I didn't really understand lighting back then. But you highlighting is a good thing to have in your picture. As long as you control it and it doesn't get into your lens because the light scatters. As soon as the light comes down, if you have a subject, okay, what a colour or a car or something, it's going to either absorb, it's going to absorb light and also reflect light. It depends on whether that's the text, the texture, the colour, that kind of thing. So if you have light coming in to hit that thing, to hit the subject, you are it could really be a great picture or it might not be a good picture. It depends on how you want to show this subject. Is there anything else you want to cover off? For Ninh Binh before we move on to another location. Let me see. Ninh Binh was just a I love Ninh Binh and I would go back in a second if I'm thinking about going back there. But there's a lot of hiking. There's you can take a boat rides into the back country there and there's hiking up that mountain. And you have a great view from up there. It's just a beautiful area and you get up there and you see all the rice patties on one side and the river on the other side. And the rice patties are always interesting to me because you have some of the animals there, their work animals out there. And it just it's an interesting scene. But if you just take a picture of a rice patty, And there's nothing going on. It's boring. You want something going on. And that's why I say with people or animals, that kind of thing. And if they're really way far in the distance, sometimes I don't even take a picture. But it depends. I'm taking a picture for the different reason. If you take some pictures that are boring, that's okay, because this is a memory to you. You're traveling and you want to show what it looks like. It doesn't always have to look like so interested. It doesn't have to, every picture doesn't have to be a great picture. You want some good pictures, but you also want pictures of what it's really okay. That's my view. [00:19:15] Kerry Newsome: I've always felt, the photos that I've taken, that I've loved the most have been when the farmer. Is in the fields. And because it's such backbreaking work that they do, they are bent, over. So sometimes you can get a capture of that. Their process of farming and the hats appearing in the rice patties looking like that. There's not even a body attached to them, that they're just a row of hats because they're bent over. And if you get that contrast right, I've found that interesting and just. It's probably a good segue in to talk about capturing photos with people and maybe speak to us a little bit about getting people's permission, where it's necessary or appropriate and how best to do it versus where it's a little bit freer and easy or, and you can take that. [00:20:21] Thomas Levine: Let me first say that you don't always have to take a picture of the person's face, like you said, if they're working in the field. There's such a thing as body language. Body language is, tells you a lot about what's going on in the scene. Okay? So if they're bent over, they're working okay. That's fine. That's no problem. It's also nice to have a picture of a face. But a lot of these people, they don't like their fixture taken. And a lot of times I'll take a picture, but they won't know it and they'll see me. But when I first starting take to take pictures, I'll actually point the camera in a different direction and I'll keep an eye on what they're doing, and then I might take different pictures, and then one of 'em might be of them that they don't even notice anymore because I'm standing there, I was standing there looking in a different direction. So that's one way. But the view of a lot of people is if they're out in. The open area, it's game is on. You can take a picture. They may not like it. [00:21:22] Kerry Newsome: You can have that option. [00:21:23] Thomas Levine: Yeah. You can have that liberty, but some areas they might have a rule. You can't take pictures, so you have to be careful where you're at. Like in Hoi An, a lot of times they don't like your picture. They don't like it when you, like at the market, they don't like to have their pictures taken. But when I went to some of the other markets and some of the other cities, they loved it. So, it just depends on where you're at. Also like I'll point the camera and they'll see me. And then I'll kinda yes or no, I'm looking at them and they'll tell me whether they want the picture, if it's okay or that, yeah. And sometimes they look at me and then they'll raise their two, two fingers up, that kind of thing.That's okay, but that's what I'm looking for. [00:22:13] Kerry Newsome: But you can do that with sign language. [00:22:15] Thomas Levine: Yeah, then you can point to your camera. You don't have speak [00:22:19] Kerry Newsome: Vietnamese. [00:22:22] Thomas Levine: and I'll point at my lens and they'll say, yeah or no they know what I'm talking about. [00:22:29] kerry-newsome: And I know I've spoken to Etienne Bossot who I think you know, in Hoi An , and he's very much dead against paying people to take their photo. [00:22:38] Thomas Levine: Yeah, I am too. And it gets to be where they pose and I don't really like it when they pose too much. I like to pose them. [00:22:46] Kerry Newsome: No, they think they should. [00:22:48] Thomas Levine: Yeah I want them in their natural. I like casual. You give some great expressions. If they don't know I'm interested in what people are doing. I took a picture of a couple, they didn't know why I was there, and the guy's got his mouth full of food. But he is, and she's enjoying it, and she's looking at him while he is enjoying it. I like something going on in the picture and that's what makes it interesting, yeah, for sure. [00:23:15] Thomas Levine: But yeah, sorry. [00:23:17] Kerry Newsome: Do we want to move on to another place like Dalat. [00:23:21] Thomas Levine: Okay. Dalat is known for, it's very hilly. The architecture is a lot of it's French colonial, so I like to take pictures of some of the buildings and they have that monastery. If you take the cable car. Yeah. And so I took the cable car one time and actually before I took the cable car, they have a overlook. You could take, you could see the whole city. And so you can actually take a landscape picture of the city before you even get on the cable car. And then when you get on the cable car, I like taking pictures through the window. And they have, you can see the treetops, you can see some farming. There's a lot of stuff going on. You could take, I like taking pictures of the cables. Cable cars come in at you because you can take pictures of the people in there and you can see they're looking at you, they're taking pictures or whatever. And then when you get there there's tons of flowers there that you could take pictures of. The monastery Actually I think I went in there, but I didn't take pictures. Maybe they don't allow it. I can't remember. But it's just it's a, it's very interesting. And again, they have markets too in, in Dalat, so they they have the biggest strawberries I've ever seen. [00:24:38] Kerry Newsome: Like they do jams, which is an unusual thing for Vietnam. It's the only place I've actually seen where they preserve the fruits, et cetera, and turn them into these beautiful, tasty jams, but they're. The strawberries were like the size of apples. They were huge and the colour was so rich red getting back to red. But just you, as you say the markets were totally different. And they have another flower called the Everlastings. Did you come across them? [00:25:12] Thomas Levine: I probably did, but I don't know the name. I didn't know the name. [00:25:16] Kerry Newsome: There's actually a flower that never dies. [00:25:18] Thomas Levine: Huh? [00:25:19] Kerry Newsome: And they call them the Everlasting, and they sell them in posies and they can make them ornamental. So even though they're fresh flowers, because they never die, it's freaky. Really freaky. I thought someone was having me on at the time, but then I learned later that it actually is quite true. They call them Everlastings. So, they're these small, very small photos, very small buds. I'll send you a, I'll send you a photo of the ones and you'll go, oh, Kerry, you could have done better if I was there. [00:25:56] Thomas Levine: So as long as I don't have to analyze it, that's fine. [00:25:59] Kerry Newsome: No, don't. No, but they just to prove that they exist. [00:26:03] Thomas Levine: You know what else they have there, which I haven't seen since California is artichokes. They grow artichokes in the lot. They're pricey. But they sure are good. And did you get up into the some of the waterfalls? That's where I had a really interesting experience trying to get that photography right. I have to admit to everyone that I've failed, but those waterfalls are just lovely. The Pongour waterfalls were. [00:26:35] Thomas Levine: And you probably got there during midday, which the light's not the greatest. by the time you travel some of these places, it's not morning anymore. You have to get really early to get some great photos of some areas and people along there traveling, they just don't want to do that, which I don't blame 'em. I had a doctor friend. He was really into photography. He'd go, he'd take this picture and it was okay, and then they'd go back to their hotel and then his wife didn't want to go. He'd get up at four o'clock and he'd go back to the same location and take that picture again. And his pictures were great, but he he went way out of his way to back to the same place to take the picture. And like I said, his wife is not interested in it whatsoever, but he had some really nice. [00:27:21] Kerry Newsome: Yes. [00:27:21] Thomas Levine: going back to a place that possible, but it's it's not convenient. [00:27:27] Kerry Newsome: And interesting do you find in Vietnam with some cities. See, when I think of colour, I think of Dalat and the colour purple. Because around the lake is lots of purple. Do you recall? [00:27:44] Thomas Levine: I recall that, but it's, I guess it's because I've been looking at so much yellow lately. I think of yellow because of the those. [00:27:51] Kerry Newsome: But see, yellow to me is associated with Hoi An because of the, a lot of their buildings and the shop houses, et cetera have got that yellow walls to them and they, it's quite well, known, I think Dalat is purple. I don't know what city would we call as red? Would that be Hanoi? Maybe? [00:28:14] Thomas Levine: Yeah, there's a lot of I just think of red and I see those lanterns which are in Hoi An and I just looked at one, I took a picture of in Hanoi. They're all over the place. They're not as prevalent in Hanoi as they are here in, in Hoi An. It's a photographer's paradise. But you, are right it is colour everywhere. [00:28:38] Thomas Levine: You have the ocean, you have the beach you have the rice fields, which actually make pretty good pictures too. And then of course you have in town and you have some of the popular locations you could get on a boat, you can rent a boat and they could take you on a tour and take pictures. Those are, you can take, get some great pictures that way. And actually I've stood from shore and take pictures of these boats, and they're taking a picture of me at the same time. I'm taking a picture of them, so it's a little strange. [00:29:08] Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and you've got that twilight, haven't you, on the river. [00:29:11] Thomas Levine: Oh yeah. You get some great lighting here and then, and when you're in Old Town and that bridge and the lighting goes down, the light, the sunsets and the light hits it just right. And you got the boats going underneath. They make some great pictures from shore. [00:29:29] Kerry Newsome: And it's happy hour. [00:29:30] Thomas Levine: Yeah. If you're not in the crowd because you're standing on the bank but it does get crowded. [00:29:37] Kerry Newsome: My favorite time of the day. [00:29:37] Thomas Levine: It does get crowded here. But at the same time, you have a lot of areas that are crowded, like I said, the beach and the rice fields. Because if you want to take a walk or you want to take a bike ride, rice fields are great for that. [00:29:50] Kerry Newsome: So we've covered a little bit on Ninh Binh , a little bit on Dalat do you want to speak to everyone about Hanoi? What would you be looking for in Hanoi? [00:30:01] Thomas Levine: Hanoi street photography people there's just these street vendors with flowers. They're sending fruit. They have their bicycles loaded down with, there's one, there's a guy, he has conical hats. He has all kinds of hats, and he carries that on a bicycle and watch it around. So you could stand on the sidewalk and just pick a place that's busy and you can take pictures of people going by. And that's my, one of my favorite things to do. But like we, we were talking about space. If you're looking down the street and you have tons of traffic where it's just traffic all the way across your front, okay. There's not too much of a picture there sometimes, unless you, unless it's for colour or something like that, but you, it's too busy. You know what I mean? So one of my favorite pictures is, Looking down in the middle of the street. Okay. So if it opens up, which it will open up, you could see down into the middle and you can see some stuff going on down the street and then you have people on the right and people on the left on their motorbikes. And it makes an interesting picture. And I've got a guy that's carrying some piece of glass or something at least way down in the middle. You want to it takes your eye automatically. It's a line. It's ev even though it's not a line, it's a line because you have people on the right, people on the left. It's a border. It's a frame that you're going down the middle and in the middle if you got something else going on in there, you want somebody to look inside your picture because that's where the stuff's going on. But you can't you got to have an avenue, you got to have an alley for your eye to go into. I mostly take the lake. It is so pretty. [00:31:52] Thomas Levine: Yeah, there's flowers around the lake. Sometimes I'll take, I, I took a picture of some flowers and then I thought these are nice flowers. And then I actually moved the camera. When I took the next picture so that the flowers are blurry, so it looks like they're blowing in the wind. You have to experiment to, to get it right. But it's a beautiful lake and they have that circle with people. You, if you want to take portraits, you can put people around that circle with the fountain. I think it's a fountain. And that's a nice picture. [00:32:26] Kerry Newsome: And you’ve got the red bridge. [00:32:27] Thomas Levine: Yeah. When I was there, they were painting it unfortunately. But yeah, the red bridge really sticks out. It's great. [00:32:34] Kerry Newsome: It's iconic. Yeah, absolutely. Is there another city you'd like to talk about? [00:32:40] Thomas Levine: I, went down to the Mekong that's an interesting, and when you go onto the floating markets, that's an interesting picture. You get four in the morning and you get the sun coming up. Now I had the sun in my lens a lot of times, so a lot of pictures just didn't come out that great because it was just a really bright sun. And I could, and I was in a boat so I couldn't like, say go, I was at a tour so I couldn't say go left or go right. But if you get your own boat and you hire a tour person and you don't have any other passengers, they'll take you wherever you want to go. But get people working. It's interesting because they have these big boats and they're full of fruit and you got other people buying their fruit on their boats and they stick these poles up in the air with whatever fruit they're selling it. I took a picture of the person that was operating my boat, she saw I was taking a picture. So what does she do? She poses for the camera. I didn't really want that, so I took a few like that and then I had to wait until she was actually busy and then I took the picture and that's the picture that I liked because it was casual. She was busy. That's she was doing her job and that's what I liked. But she was posing as soon as she knew I was taking the picture right before that, she posed for it. Maybe you want that. Some I like having some of those too. It's good to have different stuff because when you're showing different people or you're showing the one person, all these different pictures, you don't want your stuff boring, like I said. Yeah. If you have somebody standing right smack in the middle of a frame on every picture, it's boring. So you want to Have them show like you, they're the guide and they're showing you the area. They could have their arms out, they could have the statue and leading on the statue. There's all sorts of things you could do when you have a travel buddy. So that makes it fun that's really what the name of the game traveling, is having fun. [00:34:37] Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. Yeah. And capturing as many great memories as you possibly can. You're not always going to get the perfect circumstance, but certainly I think photography plays such a big role in preserving those memories for people long beyond and trying to explain it to other people. When you get home, I know when I get home and I say, oh, I went to such and such, and. I'll show people women dressed in their Ao Dai's or the schoolgirls riding their bicycles home from school, and they're all dressed in white Ao Dai's because that's what they wear to school. People can't believe that in this day and age that you know. The Vietnamese as a whole, very strong sentimentality, I guess towards their traditions, which I think is fabulous. And wear their Ao Dai's with pride and it's not staged. It's not just for tourism. [00:35:37] Thomas Levine: Part of the culture. [00:35:44] Thomas Levine: For instance, when I was sitting I was having dinner with my friend and we were inside and we were talking about some old times and he broke out in laughter what we were talking about, and that's when I took the picture and he had lost it he just he was laughing so hard. [00:36:03] Kerry Newsome: I love it. [00:36:04] Thomas Levine: The picture and it was like preserved, it's perfect. That's what you want to do. [00:36:09] Kerry Newsome: Because you never get that time back again. That's why I stress over taking good pictures. [00:36:13] Thomas Levine: Exactly. Yeah, it's just you're taking a snapshot in time. Although I don't like the word snapshot, but you're really making pictures when you take time to take a picture and you're trying to line things up. You're thinking about it. You're making a picture. Not just taking a picture. [00:36:28] Kerry Newsome: Yes. And that's where the art comes into [00:36:31] Thomas Levine: And the more you know about it the better. Sometimes if you don't know about it too just. I think a lot of it's aesthetic, but there are principles and there's like rules of photography. But my biggest thing is it's okay to break the rules because there's really no rule. It's you can make up your own rules if you want. Now whether somebody else likes it or not, it's the next question, but if you like it Yeah, and purpose is important. Is it for you or is it for other people, or do you want to sell it? [00:37:04] Kerry Newsome: it it's all those different kind of purposes. What is your purpose? If it's for your own memory? You can take it any which way. [00:37:12] Thomas Levine: As far as travel I, when I talk about travel, it's usually because they've just taken it for themselves or show their friends. [00:37:20] Kerry Newsome: Okay, Thomas is there some information that you can leave with us so everyone can contact you maybe to get some lessons from you or things like that? [00:37:34] thomas_2_02-15-2023_105136: I'm almost done and I'm working on an e-book. On travel photography, but it's tips. And I go through line and I go through colour. I don't go through all the elements of art. I just want to give somebody a basic thing. They could go out and improve their photography because that's the whole thing. But if you make it too technical, yeah, I talked about art more than the technical side. I want to make it easy. Okay. And the technical side, operation of your camera, there's all sorts of stuff on the internet on that. So, you should learn how to use your camera and if you have the smartphone, if you want to take more creative pictures, you should look into the apps that they have for controlling shutters, speed and aperture. And they have other apps too. And you could do slow motion. There’re all sorts of stuff. So yeah. [00:38:28] Kerry Newsome: Okay, Thomas, thanks very much for being on the show. [00:38:32] Thomas Levine: Thank you very much, Kerry. I appreciate the interview.

S4-03 Travel Outlook 2022-23 What About Vietnam S4-3 –Vietnam Travel Outlook 2022/23 Interview with Conor Kelly & Kerry Newsome (Podswap) – ComebaCK Podcast #317 Kerry Newsome : [00:00:01] Xin Chau and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Today we have a bonus edition. I'm calling it a bonus because I get to sit on the other side of the microphone with Conor Kelly. This is a wonderfully executed interview by Conor Kelly as he is the host of his own podcast called The Comeback . And it's a great podcast where he talks to all kinds of people associated with Vietnam. And I think he's done like nearly, I don't know, 300 or something interviews. So he's really in their boots and all in podcasting in Vietnam. In the interview with me, he took the opportunity to ask some probing questions about my personal background to Vietnam. We discussed some of the things that I think will impact on tourism in the coming months, towards the end of 2022, and how I see things shaping up into 2023. I'm very, very appreciative of this opportunity. I think it's going to give you some insights into just how I'm tracking Vietnam and how I see it, you know, really coming back into vogue for travellers in the future. My thanks to Conor again as it was really great to sit on the other side of the microphone just for this once. Please enjoy. Stay tuned and we'll bring you the show. Conor Kelly : [00:01:34] Hello and welcome back to the Comeback Podcast . As usual, I am your host, Conor, and today I am delighted to welcome - What about Vietnam’s - Kerry Newsome currently based in Australia, where we are going to talk about life in Vietnam. "What about Vietnam" and more of what Vietnam has to offer going forward? I'm looking forward to this one. How are you? Kerry Welcome. Kerry Newsome : [00:01:58] Thanks very much, Conor. I'm really looking forward to the show, especially being on this side of the fence rather than on the other as per normal. Conor Kelly : [00:02:06] Yeah, it's quite weird, isn't it, when you get interviewed and you think, Oh, I'm not directing the conversation here, it almost feels slightly, I don't know, slightly odd. I'm still adjusting to it myself when I go on the other side. Kerry Newsome : [00:02:18] Yeah, well, you know, give me a score at the end and let me know how I go. Conor Kelly : [00:02:23] I'm sure it'll be great. I'm sure it'll be great. You get nine so far. What is your relationship with Vietnam? Kerry Just to get a brief overview, when did you first come to Vietnam? Kerry Newsome : [00:02:34] Okay. So I came in 2007 and I was part of like one of the very early kind of travellers to Vietnam. In fact, people my family and friends said, Gosh, you're going to Vietnam. Like I was going to some war zone still, you know. So I was a real pioneer. But there was a lady called Maeve O'Meara, and she was running tours to Vietnam food tours in particular because she ran a show called Food Safaris. You might have seen it or heard of it, and yes, so I went with that. And that was just your typical top to bottom, start in Hanoi, finish in Ho Chi Minh City kind of story. But I just fell in love with it. It just got to me. Conor Kelly : [00:03:24] Yeah, I see. And I love the fact you've mentioned that back in, say, 2007, there would be the connotation of Vietnam as this completely random location or a war zone, because I feel like back then and you can obviously clarify, it's absolutely nothing like this vibrant, cosmopolitan place, especially Saigon, that we see currently. Kerry Newsome : [00:03:45] Oh, absolutely. In fact, I can give you an example. In the in the city of Hoi An there is the tube on river that runs through the main town. Well, the the other side of the river there was just shanties. There was there was no restaurants, there was no night markets, there was no hotels, there was nothing. There was just like I felt like, why do they have a bridge? Because it actually goes nowhere and there's nothing there. Of course, that's changed dramatically as there is a whole new life over the other side of the bridge. And it's just a totally different old town now. Conor Kelly : [00:04:27] Yeah, and I've almost got two questions in one. The first one I'll ask and then I'll move to the second. The first being, what exactly was it about Vietnam that made you fall in love with it? Kerry Newsome : [00:04:40] Look, a couple of things happened for me during that first trip. I met an Australian expat and she was starting up or in the very early stages of a charity or an NGO in Vietnam looking to assist or sponsor young girls in their education in Vietnam. And her name Is Linda Burn and the foundation is called the Children's Education Foundation . I just ‘jelled’ with her and because she was Australian, there was just so much she could sort of relate to me so that I could kind of better understand and see it and see Vietnam through her eyes. So she was kind of pointing things out to me that that just helped with a little bit of relativity. So, you know, meeting expats over, over there was kind of one thing. And then just the Vietnamese themselves. I met another girl that I've also stayed friends with since that time, and just over that time I've just grown further in love. So it was probably the people. And up until then, I'd done a fair bit of travel through Asia, you know, Thailand, the Philippines, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. And I just never got the same vibe and feeling of welcome and warmth and caring that I did in Vietnam. So I thought, no, this, this is more me, this. I feel safer. And I was certainly doing a lot more travel solo at that time. So yeah, that, that kind of kept me coming back. Conor Kelly : [00:06:23] I can imagine so. And the second part of that question was, now that it has changed so dramatically from 2007 to 2022, where you have all these new things such as the Hoi An Bridge we referenced Phu Quoc has taken off in that time we have my Mui Ne, which is very popular, Ho Chi Minh, completely different ball game,I can imagine Hanoi is similar. How has your relationship with Vietnam changed from perhaps 2007 to now, based on all of the changes it's gone through? Has it been impacted in any way? Kerry Newsome : [00:06:56] That's a really big question, Conor, because there's kind of life up to COVID and then there's life after COVID. I mean, my relationship changed with Vietnam probably most predominantly in 2016. And one of the trips that I did back, I did a long stay. I stayed for a month, and I actually moved into a situation where I got offered a job and I was offered the job to sell a major hotel group, a Vietnamese hotel group that was literally building from the ground up at the time in Hawaiian. And they had on their drawing board to build five hotels, which they did. And because I had a flight centre background, I'd kept all my contacts in flight centre over the years. I mean, it's a pretty cliquey industry, the tourist tourism industry and working with some pretty influential people. I was able to win the flight centre account, so I kind of went from a, a travel tourist, you know, just explorer to a little bit more of a business relationship. So I'm not answering you question directly, but I guess I started to view Vietnam through different eyes from a more tourism and tourist aspect, and that changed the way I looked at the landscape and what was happening in travel and how the travel boom was about to take off. Kerry Newsome : [00:08:34] And just to give you some relationship to the travel boom, so in 2019 there, the Vietnamese government reports that they would receive something like 18.3 million tourists into Vietnam. And the rate from 2007 to 2018 was dramatic. It was just exponential. There were buses on buses. They couldn't even fit the buses into places like Hoi An and they had to park them outside the town and ferry people in on like golf carts, etc., and cyclos. And then COVID hit and COVID hit and it dropped to 3.8 over two years. And that was only due to business development and of course, diplomats and government officials, etc., that made up that small amount of 3.8. Now we're at 2022. The doors are open as of March. So, you know, it's it's a new it's a new landscape again, because not everything survived COVID. And I, I don't know, I'm I'm back in September. I have to see it from my own eyes now. Conor Kelly : [00:09:53] Yeah, absolutely. And we're all going to talk more later in the conversation about what that means for tourism going forward in Vietnam 2022. But can I get your reaction to COVID? Where were you based in Australia when COVID hit back early 2020, and how was your reaction to the developments? Kerry Newsome : [00:10:13] Well, it was funny. I was actually in Vietnam up until the 19th of March 2020, so I was over there on a trip I used. I was doing 2 to 3 trips per year up until that point between 2016 and 2020. And I was due to leave on the 29th to come back to Australia. But my husband was saying to me, look, I think this thing called this COVID thing, I think it's going to take over the world and they're going to name it as a pandemic. And the country is going to shut you out if you don't come home. Now, by that stage in 2020, I had been working and I still do work for what they call a Vietnam inbound tour operator. So that's a Vietnam destination management company. And my boss in Hanoi was saying, Kerry, look, I know things are kind of a little bit nervous here in Vietnam at the moment, but I think they're going to shut the doors and I think Australia is going to shut you out as well. So we need to get you home. Kerry Newsome : [00:11:29] So I literally got on one of the last few flights to get back to Australia and I've got to admit to you, I was in denial. I was like, I don't believe this, I, I just cannot believe that this is happening. And while it was the 19th of March on the way to the airport, to Danang Airport, you know, my driver got. Pulled over and I got tested for temperature test, etc. and I'd heard some gossip that there were people and backpackers, etc., that they'd kind of put in some hotel or some kind of Vietnam establishment and were kind of ferrying food into them because they were worried that they were transmitting. I mean, there was real like feeling that the tourists had brought the disease to Vietnam. So if you weren't wearing a mask walking around in those days and thankfully between the hotel group and my boss, I was taken very good care of. But, you know, there was there was a lot of nervousness in the air, so to speak. It was it was quite scary. Conor Kelly : [00:12:48] I can imagine. And from what happened then, you flew back to Australia, you were able to get through that, I guess ordeal in the initial stages. What happened next as in obviously tourism was hugely affected your industry due to COVID. So what happened for you? I guess from a personal and professional sense once you were back and say April 2020. Kerry Newsome : [00:13:10] Yeah. So I got back and of course Australia did close the doors and Vietnam at that stage really for most of 2020 was in a good place. The numbers were very low. The country was really dealing with it very, very strictly. But certainly life pretty much as normal. You know, expats were being asked to go home to leave the country if there was any confusion as far as their visa status was concerned. But for the most part, Vietnam was okay. It was just that the rest of the world wasn't. So my boss, you know, I have a very good relationship with my boss. And I just said, well, I don't think I'm going to be selling any tours into Vietnam from Australia in the foreseeable future. What do you want me to do? And she said, Well, because you've got a marketing background, would you be open to move your headspace into marketing so we can keep our brand and our messaging and our communications up during this time? We wait and see what happens. So that's what I've been doing for the last two years. Conor Kelly : [00:14:26] I see. And what does that actually entail? Say, for somebody who isn't familiar with marketing or can't quite understand how you would be able to do that when you don't have access to Vietnam unless in special circumstances? What sort of things have your job entailed since 2020, up until this point that we speak currently? Kerry Newsome : [00:14:48] Okay. So the main part of my job is to keep our communications with our current database. So that would involve creating newsletters, updating covered reports so that we keep our customers informed so that they are aware of the status and just how the country was performing in that way. So that if there was any groups or if there was any plans or anything already in vogue that they knew how to advise their clients because, you know, it didn't kind of go 'snap, crackle pop' all in one day. It kind of crept up on everybody. And every country was in varying stages of COVID until probably late 2020, when it was apparent that it was all over the world. And it was pretty serious. And, and until we got the the vaccination status and things like that. So it was really important for me to keep communication. So that was the first thing. So communicating with our customers, creating newsletters, creating blogs and working with operators still in the country dealing with it. In addition to that, we have social media platforms, so making sure our branding and our messaging there was still strong because, you know, there was a lot of companies over the ensuing months that have just kind of dropped off the earth. You know, they they weren't able to survive for varying different reasons. And it's been really tragic, really tragic. And while we have been able to maintain a very small business as we support Vietnam Airlines, the company I work for, that, you know, it was important that we stayed on the radar, so to speak. Kerry Newsome : [00:16:44] So social media was a very big part of that. And then, of course, in addition to that, there was just creating the right messaging. So on our website, making sure that the information on there was up to date. And if we were looking at developing new plans and new tools, etc., we got into working what those new tours would look like and designing those. So we did a lot in the technological background because for the first time we actually had time to work on the business and on the business model. So we were able to improve that as well. So, you know, very broad spectrum, but it kept my hand in and it was also the time, it was actually May 11th, 2020, that I decided a good way for me to keep my personal profile in the Vietnam space would be to create a podcast, and by doing the podcast I would be able to keep connected and have a really good reason to stay connected. If I was to connect with previous travellers, operators and guides, etc. in the country so that people could keep Vietnam on their radar, I guess, so to speak, for the future when we were over the COVID situation. Conor Kelly : [00:18:06] Absolutely. And talk to me a bit more about the podcast, please. Kerry, 'What about Vietnam' ? How has it developed since you began on May 11, 2020? Kerry Newsome : [00:18:16] Well, it's it's really developed some legs, to be honest. It's gone much further than I thought it would. I must admit, in the beginning there was a huge learning curve for me in the sense of learning some new technology. I knew that I was going to be up against the situation where 99% of my guests were going to be remote. So I was going to be talking to somebody who would travel to Vietnam that either was still in Vietnam or had been to Vietnam and had since gone back to their country. I mean, I've spoken to people who have done river cruises up the Mekong, but it's you know, I was talking to them in Portugal because they'd just got home. I was talking to one guy who took some fabulous photos of Ha Giang and had a fabulous trip and just spoke about that area so eloquently. But he was back in the US as well. [00:19:16] So the challenge around technology was there. But I really wanted to create a very polished product and I wanted it to be informative. And I'm sure you're up against this as well, is that you want it to be interesting, but you know, you don't want it too serious and you want it to be fun and just relatable so people can kind of relate to it, I guess, and could say, Oh yeah, I could see myself doing that. Or No, maybe not going to a snake restaurant for lunch with a bottle of champagne and that no, I don't think that's me, that sort of thing, if you know what I mean? Conor Kelly : [00:19:58] No, I do. Yeah. Making it relatable for the listeners and also connecting with the guests. Does it change from guest to guest? For example, you might get a couple who've gone up along the Mekong, then you'll have someone from Hanoi, some more from Danang. Does it differ from people across the country in different areas, or would you say there's a typical profile of someone you would interview? Kerry Newsome : [00:20:21] No, there's no typical. Absolutely no typical. Like and that's. I think one of the or I'm hoping one of the joys of the program is that each program is unique. Each each show is different and people are not going to know what to expect. I have kind of purposely done that. I've wanted to surprise and and bring new aspects of Vietnam to the the show. As in I didn't want to just talk about destinations. You know, they can go to a guidebook and they can go to Google for that, you know,... Type in Sapa, type in Hanoi. It'll give you all the stats, the population and, you know, Ho Kiem Lake. So I wanted to add in experiences, I wanted to talk about what, what had people done that was interesting??? Or what should people look out for or you know. Yeah, just maybe the "must do list". Is it kid friendly? You know, is it good for solo people? What about that river cruise? Did that feel safe? You know, like I really wanted to kind of mix up the destination, the guest and the experience all in the one show. Conor Kelly : [00:21:35] Absolutely. No, I definitely understand the variety aspect. I tried the exact same with Comeback because I don't want the listener coming to the episode thinking that they know who's going to be on or they can tell what's going to come up. Rather, the mystery aspect and an element of surprise. However, do you see any patterns emerging with your guests? As in, do people say similar things alongside the concept of Vietnam and what to experience? If you're in a certain place, are there any patterns that you spot or is it quite difficult to gauge with such a variety? Kerry Newsome : [00:22:10] Good question, Conor. That's a really good question. I might be accused of a pattern that I see developing in the sense that most people have got good things to say about Vietnam. I mean, there's a few that have had a few grimaces about things, and I certainly want to keep it real. You know, I don't want people to go, oh, like it was fantastic when it really wasn't, you know,.... They were a bit disappointed because there was a lot of rubbish and there was a lot of that sort of feeling. But it's different because my guests vary from age from their relationship to Vietnam. Some might be guides, some might be previous travellers, some might work for a Wellness company, some might be a massage therapists. Some might run cooking schools. Some might decide to live there because they went to visit and found that they love the place. I mean, a recent guest of mine is talking about art in Vietnam. I mean, when you go to a gallery, do you really know what you're looking at when you're looking at some of the the art in that gallery? What is some of the symbolism, you know, aspects like that? So I can't really say there's a trend, but if there is a certain appetite for the typical guest, it's probably the ones that have got, you know, positive things or uplifting or good things to say about Vietnam, for sure. Conor Kelly : [00:23:48] And this might bring me to ask about your personal experience, Kerry, your personal experience on Vietnam. What have been some highlights for you in terms of living and working here? Kerry Newsome : [00:24:03] Look, I've had so many lovely experiences. As I said, I've been travelling back and forth two or three times a year. I do long stays each time, so I'm there probably 2 to 3 months a year. So I'm almost like the part time expat and I get accused of that in places and they go, Oh, are you back? But I probably think I just live down the road, but I haven't seen them for a couple of couple of months. But I, i. I loved a place called Ba Be Lake. I don't know. Have you been? Conor Kelly : [00:24:37] I haven't been there, no. Kerry Newsome : [00:24:39] Well, that was a small trip I did in 2017. And it's such a beautiful place. It's it's almost like this. It's a challenge to get there. It's about a five hour trip from Hanoi, but the Ba Be Lake area is just so special. It's got caves where you're there's probably only you and four people there. The lake itself and the area is so untouched, it's just hard to believe that time has happened and it somehow missed that place. So Ba be Lake is probably one of my most beautiful, serene, tranquil experiences. I mean, I've had a fabulous time in Hoi An and watching Hoi An grow. It's certainly developed over time and and become richer with experiences, but I'd say Ba Be Lake is probably one of my best so far but yeah a lot still to go. Conor Kelly : [00:25:53] For sure and going towards the comeback theme and almost the opposite of that question. Living abroad, especially in Vietnam, has so many positive aspects to it, but it also brings its challenges. What have been some of the most difficult parts for you about living in Vietnam for the period that you have? Kerry Newsome : [00:26:13] Well, remembering that I only travelled on a tourist visa, so I'm essentially not living in Vietnam, be it that I go for a month each time, you know, I might go in March, I might go again in July, August, and then I might come back in October. So I haven't kind of had that living experience because I'm mostly staying in hotels, resorts, etc., home stays. So I'm not actually living and having to do the living experience because as I'm sure you would have a lot to share on that corner. Conor Kelly : [00:26:52] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's been three years now and there is definitely it's trials and tribulations, but overall it's good, but it can be quite tricky, perhaps making the sacrifices of living away from home and being involved in a community where there's still that different mindset on so many different areas, where I'll speak to my Vietnamese friends and they won't ever criticise their government whilst back in the UK it's very common to criticise the government and just little things like that, to be honest with you, can make it slightly tricky at times, but overall it's a worthwhile experience. Kerry Newsome : [00:27:26] Yeah. But big. I'm sure its life changing for you on a lot of levels. Conor Kelly : [00:27:32] Yeah. No, I can definitely say that, especially coming here as I turn 22 and being 25 in August, spending your early twenties in Saigon. It's a yeah, it's an interesting one to be honest. I probably would recommend. Yeah, but there's definitely things to look out for. I find a lot of the time it can be, and I don't mean to hijack the podcast here. It can be opportunity versus escapism, where Saigon can offer so many different things for good or for bad. The opportunity or escapism comes up as a huge theme for me when I associate with the hundreds and hundreds of people I've met here as the two primary reasons for people to move and then make their avenues throughout here. Kerry Newsome : [00:28:13] Yeah, but you're right about the mindset, too. You can't expect them to think like a Westerner to relate to any of those things. So, you know, just because of their history, because of the way they act, you know, it would be an eternal learning experience. I know. Even working with Vietnamese. And even though they can speak English, they they can't they can't really comprehend what what other what what is the meaning between the lines, if you know what I mean. Conor Kelly : [00:28:44] Yeah. No. Kerry Newsome : [00:28:45] And they can't do those kinds of interpretations. And you know, when I might say, oh, you know, they don't like this accommodation and they'll go, oh, why? You know, well, does it really matter? They don't like it. Conor Kelly : [00:28:58] Yeah. Kerry Newsome : [00:28:59] So we have to find them a new hotel because they have said this and this and this Oh, but we think it's really nice. I know, but we have to change it. Conor Kelly : [00:29:10] So yeah, that's fine. Kerry Newsome : [00:29:12] One of the hundred that are out there. Conor Kelly : [00:29:15] Yeah. you do have to ppen your mind a bit more and recognize that it might frustrate you, that example. But you know, that type of thinking does work in Australia or England, but this is Vietnam, and we've chosen to be here. So you have to play by their rules. Kerry Newsome : [00:29:31] Yes. Conor Kelly : [00:29:32] Absolutely. And what I'm thinking here, Kerry, is tourism 2022, I think it was last month or two months ago. Now we're recording this early May in March 2022, when borders started to open. Open. And I've seen hints of tourism. I've not really been to say the boybands of this world so much so far, but I know tourism has restarted. Conor Kelly : [00:29:54] What do you see? This might be tricky to answer the future of tourism in Vietnam from 2022 onwards. Kerry Newsome : [00:30:03] Look, I think there's an appetite definitely for recovery. I think the recovery will still be a little bit slow or cautious. I'm already talking to travel agents again, and there's definitely enthusiasm. However, no one's putting their money on the booking, if you can understand. So people are definitely expressing interest and I think it's a little bit about their wanting to kind of see the transition manifest itself. So they're wanting to see the traffic, they wanting to see the increase in airline frequency and flights. They're wanting to judge just how the accommodation is looking, you know, what is still open. So once again, marketing is a very important part and even what I'm doing with the podcast, 'What about Vietnam" is kind of a statement and a question as in. People used to say, you know, Oh, you know, we go to Bali, we go to here, we go to the Philippines, we go to Thailand. And I used to say, "what about Vietnam?" So, you know, when I say that now, I say," what about Vietnam?" As in the borders have opened again. And I think I think Vietnam is very keen to bring back a healthy level of tourism. I do think it went a little bit nutso, like leading up to the pandemic. I think there is an interest in getting the country to a sustainable level of tourism better managed. I mean, we may not be seeing in Vietnam as many Chinese tourists as we have. Kerry Newsome : [00:31:47] We may not even be seeing any Russians or many Russians. I'm talking to somebody just next week about Nha Trang, which has been traditionally a very attractive resort area for the Russians. I mean, I don't know. So there's there's still a lot of questions on the table. And certainly what's happening in Ukraine is, you know, is affecting all of us. But as far as resuming travel and how travel moves forward, I'm positive. I'm feeling very positive. I'm booked to come back in September. Some of my guests that I've got lined up in the next few weeks are talking about some of the aspects of recovery that is certainly enticing and attractive, as in, you know, restaurants that have come back on board in the area of fine dining. I'm keen to see this new gallery that is opened up in in Hue, which Bridget March shared with me on a show last week. So even just from my guests and I'm trying to talk to more that are in Vietnam at the moment. And I'm going to be talking to you, Connor, about Con Dao, remember? We you know, I feel the I feel the positivity in the air. And I feel even back here in Australia, talking to travel agents, there is very much an eagerness for them to start selling Vietnam and open the doors back because everybody that, you know, that comes to Vietnam, you know, nine times out of ten has a great experience. Conor Kelly : [00:33:25] Right. I see. And that's the prediction for going forwards in 2022 and beyond. Do you think there can be some downsides to this? For example, if you are Russian and there won't be as many or Chinese or any other, I guess cons to increase tourism. It's great to get people back in Vietnam, of course, to visit and to see. But can there be some downsides? Kerry Newsome : [00:33:47] Downsides as into too many or not enough or particular areas or? Conor Kelly : [00:33:54] Yeah, my thoughts were initially too many because now it's been two years, I would assume, and you might be able to tell me more. The people would be dying to get into Vietnam and that would cause a boom. But is that the case or how would you see it? Kerry Newsome : [00:34:09] Uh, look, I think there's some people that think that I'm probably not one of them. I don't think it'll be fast and furious. I think it will be more it will be slower and deliberate. I think I think the whole world has changed just totally philosophically about travel. You know, there's much more thought we were we were getting on and off planes. Let's face it, pre-COVID, like on and off the bus, it was you know, the whole world was almost visa free. Now we've got much more complications about travel. There's certain age groups that are probably a little bit more fragile than they used to be. So you, baby boomers, etc., that are a bit more nervous. I mean, I know people that were avid travellers beforehand, before COVID and now are much more hesitant, and I think it's going to take a little while for those to settle down. I mean, the die hards like me and the others I think will definitely be out there again and very keen, but it has got more complicated. So I think that complication has to get a little bit more rationalised. And I think there's some talk in Vietnam at the moment that by June some of the levels of entry to the country will be even taken further away. So it'll be so much easier to enter the country. So I think the easier it gets, the more settled that will happen. Now to your question about is that going to be bad for Vietnam, as in we're going to get too many tourists? Look, I hope that's going to get better managed. Kerry Newsome : [00:36:01] I think there was over tourism definitely leading up to the pandemic. And, you know, I hear that there's been some great areas of improvement as far as cleaning up the country and areas that have flourished, you know, forests and and rivers, etc., that have kind of been brought back to life because, you know, there hasn't been the treading of the tourist. So I hope there's going to be some more sustainability on that on that level so that there can be a positive imprint. And there's certainly levels within Vietnam, tourism and the government talking about that. And I've even been speaking to some of those working groups and people that are steering those committees. So, you know, I'm hoping there's going to be more thought all round, but I don't want people to miss out on Vietnam. I just I do think it's a country to discover, but it's a country also that people kind of tend to hit the main three or four spots and then they go. And I think there's a lot more to Vietnam than those three main destinations. So, you know, if we could maybe encourage in our trip planning and our tour advice, you know, talking about Vietnam, we might kind of broaden the brush so that people come back several times and not just to the same places. Conor Kelly : [00:37:27] Absolutely. No. I love the fact that you've mentioned that about the broadness and the vast amount of areas in Vietnam that can be explored instead of just, say, Danang, Ho Chi Minh, Hanoi, for example. There are so many. And it brings me to, I suppose, a hidden gems kind of question. Are there any places that perhaps aren't as popular for tourists that you would expect or that deserve more recognition in Vietnam? And if so, what are they? Kerry Newsome : [00:37:57] Yeah. Like, it's it's funny. You know, there definitely is those main destinations that have really had extreme exposure on your Instagrams and your Google sites are just full of images of those places. And yet there's some and I know you and I just talked briefly about Con Dau, like it is a hidden gem. [00:38:26] There's a place called Da Lat, and not many people think to go to Da Lat. And if you went to Da lat and you saw Everlasting flowers, like flowers that actually never die, I've seen strawberries the size of apples almost there. You go into the hills and you'd swear to God you're in some European country. The waterfalls, you know, there's no gating around them. You can put your hands out and you can actually touch the water. It's that accessible and it's that beautiful and it's that untouched. But they're not they're not destinations that have been big in promotion and social media. I mean, places like Ha Giang, places like Sapa, places like I'm thinking of Ninh Binh now. A lot of people talk about how Ha Long bay but then they don't talk about Lan Ha bay and they don't talk about Ninh Binh as much, where I think Nin Binh is even probably more interesting than Ha Long bay. Gosh I could go on and on. I mean Phong Na now Phong the caves came up when they discovered the largest cave in the planet, on the planet, believe it or not, in 2009. And you know, that's only 2009, Conor. Kerry Newsome : [00:39:52] That's kind of in our lifetime, you know. And I got to talk on the podcast, would you believe, with one of the guys, British guy, who was actually part of the group that stumbled like they literally stumbled on this cave? It's like about seven kilometers. You can fit Big Ben in the cave. So, you know, it takes four days to go from one end to the other. And, you know, it's it's starting to capture great interest, but it's for your, you know, your real intrepid adventure caving kind of person. But it's opened the world up to there's more to Vietnam than just, as you say, you know, the bustling city of Saigon, Hanoi, Hoi An and possibly Danang. I mean, people never think about Vietnam, about kite flying. I mean, kite flying.( Correction should be Kite surfing) The kite Surfing capital is, I think, in South East Asia. One of them is Mui Ne. Nobody told me about that. Nobody told me about. There was deserts in Mui Ne... Hello. I mean, it's it's just a world discovery tour!!!! And that's what I love about it, is that I haven't been back to Vietnam once and done everything the same. I managed to go somewhere else. I mean, Quy Nhon is a place that has only just come up on the roadmap. There's now a new ferry system to go to Ly Son Island. Now, I've been meaning to go to that island for, I think the last five years, but it was such an awkward trip and you had to get this bus. Kerry Newsome : [00:41:38] And it only ran on certain times and then you had to kind of connect up with the ferry. And if you missed the ferry, then you didn't get it. So now there's this straight ferry, straight to the island. Guess where I'll also be going and I'll be able to go to that from Hoi An. An SO like my podcast is kind of a discovery tour for me as well. So I'm learning about new destinations as the new destinations are coming on and I'm trying to expose them and give them, you know, the benefit of insights so that people that have been there or people that are in the process of developing, I'm talking to them. So my listeners kind of get the the real insights. So I don't have to wait for a Lonely Planet guide to come out each year and hope to God it's got the most up to date information. And of course you can Google everything, but it's not the same as someone telling you, Look, we went there, look, don't do that. Forget going at that time of the year because it just rains all the time and you're missing the best parts. And, you know, so it's it's, you know, it's like going to Ireland, isn't it? And going to Cliffs of Moher my hair. Sometimes you see nothing. And then the fog lifts and other times it looks fabulous. So it's all the benefit of insight. Conor Kelly : [00:42:51] Absolutely. Kerry Newsome : [00:42:52] And Cliffs of Moher, I meant. Conor Kelly : [00:42:54] Okay, one thing we. And at the beginning was perhaps leading up to the pandemic over tourism and how it then can be managed from now on. Now, tourism is a thing again. How can tourism be managed, in your view, Kerry to be the most effective possible for Vietnam and avoid, say, over tourism or under tourism or any complications? What do you think are the most effective ways for Vietnam to tackle tourism going forward now? Kerry Newsome : [00:43:24] Geepers. You know, I need a job on the Vietnam Tourism Board after this because I'm sure it's coming up on their agenda similarly. How do they do that? Look, one of the ways where they were starting to to stem the traffic, I guess, of over tourism was in the freedom of giving out licenses for "homestays." I think at one stage in Hoi An alone and probably I have I've had more to do with the Quang Nam area than anywhere else, so I can speak more proficiently about that area. So they were I think they stopped at 318 licenses to have a homestay. And what they learnt from stopping that was that they had to put some limit on how many hotels and how many home stays, you know, how many beds were they going to allow in a vicinity? Now, if you look at the township of Hoi An and the Old Town itself, it's only about two and a half kilometers in size. And then if you build all of these accommodations of course you're going to get into trouble, as in the city is not going to be able to cope with that traffic. You're going to have a trodden city where you're starting to damage it and you're going to ruin that UNESCO's World Heritage site. So I think there's a look at accommodation and there will be some input or there's going to be some checking on just how many they're going to allow, how many beds and how many tourists they're going to allow. Kerry Newsome : [00:45:12] So there's going to be also, you know, how many flights they're going to let in to certain areas. So, you know, the frequency of flights and the size, I think that's going to be another element because they're that's where the numbers come accommodation and people into hotels, into airports. So we have to sleep them somewhere so that's probably where it starts. And then they'll look at, you know, eateries and things like that to to manage that. I mean, overtourism is definitely a, a problem to the environment. I mean, there's enough studies around the world to verify that. But how each government manages it around the world is, is very different, is very unique. And even within Vietnam, because there's so many provinces, each province tends to manage their own tourism, their own way under their own guidance or jurisdiction as they see fit. So there's not, you know, anything particularly consistent, but there is working parties and groups and thankfully, I've got some good ears into those. And I am hearing some good, some good noise out of those that they are going to be looking at, at licensing and just how they can manage, you know, the footsteps around Vietnam. Conor Kelly : [00:46:35] Absolutely. And I suppose coming towards the end of the conversation, Kerry, this might be tricky again. And I feel like we have alluded to it at points, but what would your ideal scenario be in Vietnam, say, 2022, 2023 and 2024 ? What ideally would you like to see happen? Kerry Newsome : [00:46:55] In respect to? Conor Kelly : [00:46:57] In respect to the tourism reopening and what that would mean for the country. Kerry Newsome : [00:47:02] Look, I think they're not even going to have to work very hard at a slow intake of tourism. I think that's just going to happen organically. I think the making it easy for people to enter the country but keeping the visa level under some jurisdiction, I mean, you'll notice that they pretty much put it back to what it was prior to COVID. So for those 80 countries, you can come for 15 days. But for the other countries, you're maximum stay under a visa application is 30 days. So during COVID, there was a lot of expats that had to leave the country because they weren't there kind of essentially legally. And there was a lot of workers that were working there and taking Vietnamese jobs. So they've also had to leave. So in some ways, covid's been a bit of a godsend for Vietnam to clean up Vietnam. I mean, Vietnam's got 96 plus million population. So it's got a thriving domestic tourism aspect to it, and it's also a thriving country. So even its own domestic travel is on a boom and there are more Vietnamese travelling even just this holiday. I think you even said recently I heard you talk to somebody and saying, you know, you want to go where everywhere everyone else isn't going because it's going to be that crowded. Kerry Newsome : [00:48:45] Yeah. So I'm hoping that, there is a push on trying to broaden the scope of travel experiences for people and for operators to take a very sustainable approach. So in other words, instead of before them having a group of 30 or 35 people, their maximum might be 20 so that they will take smaller groups. I'd like to see that happen in the future so that the people in the groups are getting a better experience and we're not bringing too many in at the same time, [00:49:22] I think I'd like to see a growth in the development of the hospitality industry in the training area, and I think that's also going to happen of its own accord because it's by demand. I mean, I'm hearing in Ho Chi Minh City there's a lot of hotels that just can't get manpower back because a lot of people lost their jobs. They went home to their families and villages to kind of wait it out. And so I think the you know, there's going to have to be an investment and certain hotel groups, I think, are going to step up to that because they'll see the opportunity. Kerry Newsome : [00:49:58] So we we've got some good things in quality coming back. I'd like to see that. I would like to see the growth in social enterprise as well because I really like wherever I can see the growth in the minority groups and the support of those minority groups in a very healthy, wholesome and supportive way. So it gives back to those communities. I'd like to see more of that, but once again, that won't be throngs of people. That'll be a group of six, that'll be a maximum of 12, that kind of thing. We won't I don't think there's going to be the big bus loads. And you know, a lot of those busloads were coming from China. So I'm kind of on a watch wait and see whether or not we will get the Chinese back in as they were the number one tourist group to Vietnam. So yeah, I mean, I can sit in that roundtable Conor, with those working party groups in tourism any day of the week with all my wish list. But I think there's a lot of players in the field, there's a lot of money that's that's being kind of discussed as far as development is concerned. So it's a little bit wait and see. Conor Kelly : [00:51:15] Right. I see. And a new tradition I have on this podcast, Kerry is asking the guest a question which is, has that been a question that I've not asked you that you would have liked me to. Um. Kerry Newsome : [00:51:35] Well, I thought we were going to talk a little bit more about podcasting. And I thought we were going to kind of share some of the aspects of, you know, what do you what do you know about Vietnam travel from a podcast? Conor Kelly : [00:51:51] Right. I see. And we did allude to that briefly where we spoke about people from different avenues doing different topics based on their experiences. But what have you found out specifically about Vietnam from your podcast then? Kerry what about Vietnam? What have you discovered? Kerry Newsome : [00:52:08] Well, obviously I've discovered a lot of new places and new experiences, but what I've also discovered is more about how people are consuming information. You know, like, is everybody totally dependent on the one source? Does everybody just Google the place? Or would you think to go to a podcast that was about travel, specifically about Vietnam? Because there's not many travel podcasts and there's not many just about Vietnam. In fact, I think I'm one of the rare few. There is Southeast Asian travel podcasts and there's very mixed, mixed travel podcast across lots of destinations, but there's not many just about Vietnam. Did you notice that? Conor Kelly : [00:52:59] Yeah, I only saw -7 million bikes of Vietnam podcast, because that's what it's called. There's your own, there's Vietcetra, Yeah, I can't think of any more. Kerry Newsome : [00:53:10] But they're not travel specific. Conor Kelly : [00:53:12] No, that's true. That is true. Yeah. Kerry Newsome : [00:53:14] They are broad. Yeah. Broad based and they are certainly talking about stories about people related, but they are not about travel experiences. And that I found kind of amazing. I mean, I'm glad I've got that niche, but you know, is that because people, you know, don't relate to a podcast to be informative about travel or they want to see things or I don't know. What are your thoughts about that? I'd be keen to know. Conor Kelly : [00:53:44] Yeah, I would think it's because people would probably rather Google or rather look at Instagram. This is just what's coming to me on the top of my head rather than listening to a podcast about it. Unless I would say friends or I knew the podcast host, for example, or I was aware of guests who'd been on. So, you know, I would probably say that's the reason why people aren't quite going to podcast for this information or they probably look for YouTube. I mean, you can type in visiting Vietnam on YouTube and there'll be thousands of videos with lots and lots of hits compared to podcasts. That's my current opinion. Kerry Newsome : [00:54:21] Yeah. And I think it's an interesting one because, you know, you're right, if you type in Google to visiting Vietnam or travel from Vietnam, there's blogs, there's Vlogs, there's, you know, You Tubes, but they're all kind of, you know, just someone either selling a tour or there is somebody just done a holiday video of their trip to Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh or the Mekong Delta or something like that. So it's 2 minutes and back, so there's not much in this space. So I wondered whether it was good to kind of inform your listeners that that's why I've kind of expanded the podcast situation so that I also included a transcript. So if you'd prefer to read about a place, there's a full transcript which is in a PDF format so that you can print it off, so you can read about the place or the experience, you can highlight it, you can do whatever. And also I do small like teaser elements, so audio grams so the person I'll grab something and I got card that was really interesting and I'll just grab a two minute snippet. I do a full episode on YouTube and I'm also moving to curate special kind of experiences, etc., which will have visual aspects on the site. So hopefully I'm going to fill the visual gap because I think the visual gaps about the only gap I can see in this channel, for want of a better word. Conor Kelly : [00:56:01] What do you think? And, and where can we find out more about what you do Kerry? How can we access your work? Kerry Newsome : [00:56:08] Well, obviously, you can go to the website. www.whataboutvietnam.com You can certainly find me on LinkedIn under my name, Kerry Newsome . And also the what about Vietnam podcast page on the LinkedIn site? You can also check me out on Instagram and Facebook and You Tube. Conor Kelly : [00:56:29] Excellent. Kerry Newsome : [00:56:30] So I would love feedback from people because, you know, my audience is growing dramatically. I've got nearly 20,000 listeners already just in two years. I do publish fortnightly, but I'm really keen to get people to give me their feedback. What do they want to know? What do they want me to to get someone to talk about because they're interested in going to Vietnam and they want to have a particular experience? Conor Kelly : [00:56:58] Absolutely. Have you any final thoughts, Kerry, before we wrap up? Kerry Newsome : [00:57:03] No, I just want to say fantastic what you're doing. Conor, really love your episodes. I really wish you well. And maybe we can catch up when I'm there in September. Conor Kelly : [00:57:14] Absolutely. I'd love nothing more. Definitely explore some of Ho Chi Minh. See what has to offer and see how you find coming back after a long break. Kerry, I've really enjoyed. Keep up the good work and thank you very much for your time. Kerry Newsome : [00:57:26] Thanks, Conor. ORIGINAL PODCAST – Comeback podcast show with Conor Kelly. Link here - https://anchor.fm/conor-kelly02/episodes/ComebaCK-INTERVIEW-371---Kerry-Newsome---What-About-Vietnam-Tourism-In-Vietnam-e1i1isr

a49788fb-0cb3-4201-bdcd-7bee9e2f767bExploring the threaded history of textiled in Mai Chau Explore Mai Chau and its threaded history Episode 5 Explore Mai Chau and its threaded history 00:00 / 23:37 Mai Chau is an up and coming place of interest in Vietnam and one I had the privilidge of visiting a few years ago. Howveer my guest Cynthia Mann is a regular visitor to this region and amongst the craziness of 2020, she was able to do a quick trip there to purchase new fabrics and items for her showroom called Future Traditions. Now Mai Chau is one of those places a little off the grid. About three hours out of Hanoi, but it is absolutely wonderful experience. Specially if you are looking for a place in Vietnam that is steeped in the history of local minority groups; Mainly the the Hmong people and the Thai people in particular. Cynthia has some lovely aspects to share in this episode so I hope you will love hearing about this very up and coming tourist location with a very eco style to it. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

ec8280d1-e874-4b14-8ce4-6df2779388afJeremy Stein takes us diving in the best locations What About Vietnam – S3- 6 Diving in Vietnam - Everything you need to know 2021 & beyond Kerry Newsome: [00:00:35] Xin Chao and welcome to what about Vietnam? Today, we take a deep dive literally into Vietnam with my guest, Jeremy Stein. Jeremy is an English guy who came to Vietnam about 25 years ago, and, kind of never left. He fell in love with Vietnam and set up originally in Nha Trang. He is an English-trained Padi course director, and in his twenty five years in Vietnam, he has set up over five dive centres and trained thousands of people in the skill of diving. Kerry Newsome: [00:01:18] He has a lot to offer people who may consider coming to Vietnam as a destination to do diving; to learn, diving or to have diving as part of your holiday experience. Because, as he says, you can add to a diving holiday so many other things because just of what Vietnam has to offer. He has some tremendous information about what you're going to see in species under the water, coral and just, you know, best times of the year. It's a really informative session today. And I think for anyone who maybe hasn't ever thought about coming to Vietnam to dive, you're really going to be surprised at just what there is on offer. Please welcome Jeremy to the program. Jeremy Stein: [00:02:20] It's great to be here Kerry Newsome: [00:02:23] Now, Jeremy, tell us, just how did diving start as a sport in Vietnam? Talk to us a little bit about that. Jeremy Stein: [00:02:32] Ok, well,25 years ago, I was living in Saudi Arabia and decided to take a two-week holiday trip to Vietnam. Flying into central Vietnam reminded me a lot of flying into Cairns when I dived there a few years earlier. In Nha Trang, in Vietnam, there was no organized diving, but it did have a pretty laid-back hut on the beach, offering some infrequent daily diving. I convinced the people to take me diving every day and just loved it. And at the end of the two weeks, I decided not to return to Saudi and actually took over the beach huts and set up there. Then I became the first PADI dive centre in Vietnam. From there, I just continued exploring the rest of the country underwater and opened up five other centres over the years. So now, when it's rainy season in one part of the country, there is always somewhere else in the country with great diving conditions. Kerry Newsome: [00:03:32] Ok, then, I mean, Nha Trang is a nice place to start from what I remember from my visits to Nha Trang three or four years ago, so very pretty spot. Jeremy Stein: [00:03:45] Yeah, absolutely, yes, yeah. Kerry Newsome: [00:03:48] Ok, so you said there's several other places around the country, I mean, my experience is pretty limited as far as diving is concerned. My experiences to Hoi An and was going out to the Cham Islands, that's as far as it extends. Talk to us a little bit about the expansiveness of the diving, like the marine life that you can expect to see, because I would think that would be of particular interest to a diver. Jeremy Stein: [00:04:23] Yeah, absolutely. Sure. I mean, Vietnam diving will never compete with your Great Barrier Reef or places like SIPADAN OR GALAPAGOS. But I guess what it does offer is some safe and fun diving in an amazing country. I've always promoted Vietnam as not just about the diving. But a complete cultural experience. For example, in Nha Trang, as you mentioned, We have over three hundred and fifty different species of corals, that’s actually more species than you’ll find on the Barrier Reef itself. However, we don't regularly have THE BIG PELAGICS but the marine life which abound on coral reefs here are awesome. The macro marine life here is excellent. So from frog fish to sea moths, ghost fish, gurnard lionfish, snake eels, as well as usual, suspects like cuttlefish, octopus, mantis shrimp and of course, lots of NEMOS [00:05:19] nemos Nudibranch lovers will be in paradise here. We've got hundreds and hundreds of species and so many unrecorded [00:05:30] Kerry Newsome: [00:05:31] So for the inexperienced diver, what would you suggest then as far as best locations? And would they be diving or would they be snorkeling to enjoy these dive sites? All these locations? Jeremy Stein: [00:05:51] Both, of course, in between dives. If they are diving, they can snorkel as well. And most of the sites throughout Vietnam are perfect for all level of divers and snorkelers. If we just briefly look at each destination, Nha Trang, as we've said, is the home of diving in Vietnam and all diving takes place on HON MUN Island, which is a marine park. We established 15 years ago and there's about 10 different sites. So those of you who've read about Vietnam or been to Vietnam will remember some of the iconic names like [00:06:25] Moray Beach, Tiger Wall, Debby's Beach, Madonna Rock. The Electric Nose is probably the only site in the Trang which Wall Dives down to about 40 metres. About two hours north of that Nha Trang, you've got a remote eco-resort, which is called Whale Island. It's definitely far from the madding crowd and total relaxation. We've actually dropped a couple of small wooden wrecks in the bay down in about 12, 14 metres. So the beach diving's really cool there as well. And you mentioned we got HOIAN with Cham Island and the surrounds. It's pretty much in the middle of Vietnam and offers very similar diving to that trying. CON DAO Island is about two hundred and fifty kms south of Saigon. It's remote and .... Actually Last week, we're diving there around 30 metres. We found a wreck. So lots of exploring still to do there to find out what it is, ie what it did, how long it's been there? But fascinating stuff. Finally, Phu Quoc Island. This is three hundred and fifty kilometres west of Saigon. It's actually in the Gulf of Thailand, just off the Cambodian coastline, but still very much a Vietnamese island. It offers safe, easy diving. Kerry Newsome: [00:07:59] Yeah. And just to go back on a couple of those places, was Whale Island originally only open to Vietnamese? Jeremy Stein: [00:08:09 ] Originally Yes, I think that changed as part of the fame of the place. As this is where Jacques Cousteau actually moored his boat and did some diving, [00:08:21] though, from the Calypso. [00:08:22] But, yeah, initially it was very much a Vietnamese island for Vietnamese, but that's very much changed now. And over the years, it's probably 60 percent foreigners and 40 percent Vietnamese. So it's a nice cultural mix. Kerry Newsome: [00:08:40] Yeah, oh, that's good to know about Con Dao. My Vietnamese is shocking. I'm sure that's not even how you pronounce it, but they seem really nice resorts or beautiful hotels that are starting to spring up on that island. So that makes for a nice break in the afternoon. Jeremy Stein: [00:09:02] Absolutely. The world-famous hotel chain of Six Senses. They've probably been there six, seven years ago. Pretty expensive, but pretty remote. Pretty exclusive, very nice. But it's a total mix of accommodation on the island. You've got the Six Senses, which is US Dollars about a thousand dollars a night out. But you have still got the backpacker places from $20 bucks to 50 bucks a night. 4 * up to Hundred dollars a night. It's a good mix. Kerry Newsome: [00:09:45] Traditionally, Vietnam hasn't been highlighted as a destination for water sports, but it's certainly coming of age, don't you think? Jeremy Stein: [00:09:55] Yeah, indeed, it's a shame because one of the first things I did when I moved to Vietnam twenty five years ago was travelling to the world trade shows or the dive shows, putting up a big Vietnamese flag and talking about Vietnam as a new destination. I must admit, in the Americas, it did upset a few people having a big yellow and red flag there. But now, since then, we've had a lot of those people I've met at all these different exhibitions around the world visit Vietnam and been very surprised and very happy. Kerry Newsome: [00:10:29] And for my listeners, I'm sure there's a mix amongst them that are serious divers, that are kind of leisure divers. And then there would be the total novices that would consider coming to Vietnam and maybe using Vietnam as an opportunity to learn diving. Can you talk to us a little bit about that, about the opportunity to learn? I mean? Jeremy Stein: [00:10:57] Absolutely. We are the PADI flagship here in Vietnam, a lot for the complete range of [00:11:03] PADI courses from the initial TRY dive [00:11:06] and the open water course right up to the divemaster, instructor, staff instructor courses. [00:11:12] The tri dives [00:11:13] can be done in one day, and [00:11:14] the open water course in three or four days. The advance course is two days. And the dive master and I'd see IDC that's the instructor course take from two to three weeks a popular option for the professional level courses like Divemaster. And an instructor is to take the courses as an internship and spend three to six months diving and learning on all the courses. PADI Now have the facility to learn online, which means that you can complete the theory before coming here and not, say, spending a day in the classroom while you're on holiday. [00:11:49] Kerry Newsome: [00:11:50] Hmm, sounds like a good idea so that you can do the online part of it before you come, and then you take them out after that when they arrive here? Jeremy Stein: [00:12:02] Absolutely. Yes. Kerry Newsome: [00:12:05] Ok, so, you know, I've always thought diving was such a speciality and was only for the hearty and the fit swimmer. And so I kind of never went there. Not that I'm not fit per say, but I always felt that it was for the adventurer that was prepared to do that kind of thing. So explain for us just the person or type of person that best suits diving and diving in the locations that they're coming to in Vietnam. I guess where I'm coming from, Jeremy, with this is that I'm sure there's some sites around the world that would only be for your serious diehard Diver, where maybe Vietnam offers sites that aren't going to be for the diehard diver. They are more for a leisure diver or one that just wants to have a holiday, enjoy it, etc.. I'm trying to get that difference if you know what I mean. Jeremy Stein: [00:13:16] So the leisure diver sums it up nicely. This can be the people who've made 10, 20 dives or a thousand dives plus and still enjoy the diving. As I said, all of the sites are suitable for both ends, from the novice up to the professional diver. For example, we actually get groups of photographers from the US, from Australia, who as a group, they'll be eight or 10 of them who will come armed with the photography equipment. And they've got a wish list of things they haven't seen, but they want to be able to photograph. They always leave with all of their list ticked and a few more added, which they didn't even know they wanted. So we can pretty much cater for whatever people want. If you want shallow safe, easy diving, we can do that. Some of the more adventurous dives, like I said, [00:14:18] the Electric Nose in NHA TRANG or the Three Kings and Whale Island. [00:14:22] Yeah, these are a little bit more adventurous and therefore experience matters. But whenever we take anyone diving, we always check how many dives they've made. When was the last dive so that we can gauge what sort of experience they've got and we will plan dive sites suitable for them. Kerry Newsome: [00:14:45] Oh, and that's a really good thing to know, because I know myself, if I was going out, I'd really want to know that people knew my skill level and what I was capable of so that I could confidently go out there to have a good time. It was going to be a good all-around experience. So that's good to know. Jeremy, talk to us a little bit about the safety side of things as far as diving is concerned. Jeremy Stein: [00:15:12] Ok, as I say, PADI have very strict guidelines and standards that must be followed, mainly for the safety of the students. Of course, safety, for the staff also is one of my major concerns as well. All the staff are professionally trained. They know what they're doing. I have a full team of senior PADI instructors working with me. Also, over the twenty-five years I've trained quite a few Vietnamese up to instructor ratings. [00:15:49] So everybody is aware of what they need to do at any given time, whether it's on the bus, on the way to the harbor, whether it's getting from the harbor onto the boat or on the boat, heading out to the dive sites. There are strict safety procedures in place. We like to take people diving, but it's also pretty important to bring them back as well, Kerry Newsome: [00:16:15] Kind of in the same condition that they left. Jeremy Stein: [00:16:18] Yeah Hopefully in a happier condition. Kerry Newsome: [00:16:23] Absolutely. I was thinking more about the Kerry Newsome: [00:16:27] Equipment level, the kind of boat experience, because, you know, you look at some boats out there and you think, oh, would that get me out there very safely? And would it, get me back? I'm not sure about that. So I know under the PADI flagship, obviously, to be qualified to do this, you'd have to tick all the boxes. But maybe you can just speak to people anecdotally about making sure that when they see that trip online, that they ask the right questions for sure. Jeremy Stein: [00:17:04] Certainly for the first couple of years when I was organising diving from my laid back beach huts in Nha Trang, the boats were pretty much we had to do with what we could get. Which on some occasions there wasn't a suitable entry platform. So it was a back roll from a fairly high-end, high-sided, I suppose, you'd call them fishing boats. Jeremy Stein: [00:17:30] However, over the years, with diving, directly and indirectly, being a multi,-million dollar tourist industry, the boats now are made in Vietnam still with the emphasis on looking like a fishing boat, but they are designed with dive safety in mind. So they all have dive platforms. They will have ladders, they have cages around the propellers. You've got state rooms on the boats, [00:18:04] you've got toilets, you've got showers. They'll take about twenty five to thirty customers at any one time and that includes about 10 to 15 staff. We always make sure that when we're teaching or when we're guiding, we have pretty strict ratios of maximum of four divers in a group with that dive guide or with their instructor. Now, this is well, well within any international standards, but it's something I felt was right 20 years ago. And I still feel it's right now that are we err on the side of caution. [00:18:40] Kerry Newsome: [00:18:46] Who who's driving these days, Jeremy Stein: [00:18:49] Traditionally over the last twenty, twenty five years? Foreigners with very few Vietnamese; the clientele were mainly backpackers looking quite surprised that they'd find somewhere in Vietnam to go diving. Now, I would say sixty five seventy percent of diving is all pre-booked online and the ratios have changed quite dramatically, I would say. Seventy five percent would be foreigners. That includes the resident expats here with twenty five percent being made up of the Vietnamese divers. [00:19:35] That’s partly down to us having trained the Vietnamese to dive master level and instructors. So they've now opened their own dive centres. They need to now do their own promotion and we all work fairly closely together on this. Jeremy Stein: [00:19:51] But certainly, since COVID, where we've not had the luxury of seventy-five to eighty percent of tourists coming in. We've developed quite successfully the expat market here and the Vietnamese market, so we can still offer diving to them. Jeremy Stein: [00:20:12] One of the centres I didn't mention we have and that's actually a city centre location is in Saigon or HCM city. Obviously, it is landlocked, apart from the river which runs through it. But we use it to teach CLASSROOM-WORK for all PADI courses. And we have swimming pools here so we can teach people the basics of diving. Then when they've got there, they can come down to an island location and spend two or three days finishing the course and getting certified. [00:20:48] It's also a great excuse for the expats before they head off on their exotic holidays to the Barrier Reef or Sipadan Bay area. They can get in the pool here, spend a session, get refreshed, get comfortable with their skills again. Kerry Newsome: [00:21:02] Oh, that's fantastic, and Jeremy, talk to me about the the cost to do these courses or to to go diving, I mean, there is sometimes a label that Vietnam gets that everything in Vietnam is cheap. It isn't quite right anymore, and I think you pay for what you get, but tell us just a little bit about how it compares. I mean, if you do diving, I mean, you can't even rent a surfboard in the Maldives without it costing you for fortune. So if we could just do some comparisons for people so they can know whether it's affordable. Jeremy Stein: [00:21:44] Sure. I believe we offer value and safety for money. A great analogy I would use, first of all, is if you came to a third world Asian country and wanted to do a parachuting class, would you really choose the cheapest option? I don't think so. Kerry Newsome: [00:22:06] So. Jeremy Stein: [00:22:07] Scuba diving for certified divers, which is around seventy-five U.S. for two fun dives, including equipment compared to the rest of Asia. I think that's excellent value for money. And the good thing is a lot of divers are realistic about safety because when they see some of these smaller local dive centres offering the same same but different diving for half that price, they're not stupid. They realize that it's too cheap. Yeah, people don't want just cheap, as we've said a couple of times, they want to go out to dive, enjoy the experience and come back in the same state as when they left. Jeremy Stein: [00:22:53] A PADI open. water course over four days will cost you around four hundred to US Dollars. And an instructor course will cost you around Twelve hundred US Dollars, which is pretty much in line with the rest of Asia. But as I said, we've got maximum numbers in groups which make the experience also more realistic, safe, comfortable. I personally, I still hate going to places like SIPADAN where there's a young divemaster and there's twenty five people following him. Yeah, that's not right. So I tend to err on the side of caution and safety. Kerry Newsome: [00:23:38] Yeah, they're my favorite words when it comes to things like that, and I'm sure it is for a lot of people listening. Talk to us a little bit, Jeremy, about the best time of the year to come to Vietnam. You mentioned you know, the various sites around the country. I mean, Vietnam's that long, skinny dragon. And, you know, top to bottom it is different as we go along. But maybe you could speak to some of those locations and give us the best time. In other words, if we want to go to Nha Trang. When would be the best time to go? Yeah. Talk to us a little bit about the best times for each region. Jeremy Stein: [00:24:20] Ok, as you say, it's a long, skinny country. It's actually about 3200 kilometers of coastline and therefore it does have different seasons. Nha Trang, Hoi An, and Whale Island are best in February to October for that diving and for the weather conditions. Nha Trang is open and dives all year, but we're realistic if people are looking to book in the rainy or the quiet season we will advise them realistically what the conditions are.... What the water temperature is, what the visibility is. And for a lot of people, if they're coming from Europe, then the conditions, we're saying, well, you've only got a few metres visibility. That's luxury to them. They are used to diving in zero visibility where it's basically brail diving. The diving, you only know by what you feel. Con Dao is beautiful from March to September and then Phu Quoc comes into its own from September through to April. So as I said earlier, 12 months of the year, you can dive through Vietnam. And one of the things we find with people coming to Vietnam, if they're spending a week, 10 days diving, then in one location you're going to get a little bit bored with the options. Jeremy Stein: [00:25:50] [00:25:50]I would always recommend a multi destination holiday. Yeah, Nha Trang and Whale island are the perfect combination. Nha Trang, Whale Island and Hoi An works very well. Now because of the rural location of Con Dao, it can make the trip a little bit longer because you need to add in a couple of days flights in between the islands. [00:26:22] Jeremy Stein: 00:26:22] Nha Trang Whale Island is such a great combination because you can dive 2 Dive's in the morning in Nha Trang and have lunch.... Hop onto a bus, which takes two hours to get up to Whale Island. You can do an afternoon beach dive and a night dive in the same day, and then you stay there for a few days. And if you're really serious, you come back to Nha Trang and do a couple of dives again on the way back. Kerry Newsome: [00:26:44] Good to know those combinations, because you're right, you could get bored just sitting in one spot, but to connect Nha Trang and Whale Island that's really interesting. And from what I understand also in Nha Trang they've developed, kitesurfing and some other watersports that you could add to your diving or your water sport kind of holiday, right? Jeremy Stein: [00:27:13] Absolutely. Yes. So if you're looking at kitesurfing, jetskiing, that sort of stuff, it's all available from the beach. They've got regular hydrofoils going across. And you've got a big sort of fun park there with an aquarium. Yes. So you either love them or hate them, but tourists do flock there. Kerry Newsome: [00:27:44] In Nha Trang, also, there's a really nice beach scene, isn't there, like beach bars in really nice kind of casual, you know, like this. There's a nice vibe there, I think, to absolutely. Jeremy Stein: [00:28:02] It's a great metropolis. It's a busy seaside city destination with some stunning bars and restaurants. Hotels range from six star to the local backpacker dormitories. And certainly twenty five years ago, the skyline was very, very different to what it is now. Back then if you wanted to stay in a four star hotel, you had one choice, and a five star, one choice. Now, I think at the last look, and I haven't been diving there for a couple of weeks, there are probably close to one hundred, a hundred and fifty -four and five star hotels there, not many of them full at the moment. So some great deals to be had. Kerry Newsome: [00:28:45] Absolutely. Absolutely. Just before I forget, tell us about the night diving. That sounds intriguing! Jeremy Stein: [00:28:55] It's something which after you've done it, you either love it or you're glad to have ticked the box. Yeah. Basically, you're diving. It's recommended the same site that you've been to in daylight. But of course, it's dark. So you're not going to see anything unless you have a pretty good light. So you're underwater with your underwater light, swimming around, looking at things that people say. Why do you want to dive at night? It's pretty much like Sydney in the in the daytime, you're going to see a certain type of person doing certain things. And then as soon as it gets dark, you've got a totally different type of person out on the streets of Sydney doing different things, exactly the same underwater. Kerry Newsome: [00:29:53] Have you got any great tips that people should think about before they book their holiday. While everybody's doing everything online, just things people should look out for. I'm going to put all your links in the show notes, so people can deal with you directly. But maybe some questions that they need to ask themselves. If they're coming as a family, if they're coming as a couple or just solo travelers, just things that they should keep an eye out for while they're making decisions and trip planning. Jeremy Stein: [00:30:25] Yeah, I mean, the list would be extensive. As with any trip, it's being realistic. With everyone having access to the Internet these days. Any questions you want to ask? Isn't the answers available on the Internet? And if you don't find the answer you want, you just keep asking the same question and then take the answer you want. Jeremy Stein: [00:30:51] Personal feedback is invaluable. And as you say, you're going to put the links in the show notes. And I'm happy to talk to anyone at any time about the country itself, the diving here and also some of the surrounding Asian countries, which also have excellent diving. I've dived most of the Asian countries and quite a few of the other glamorous places around the world. But the personal contact being able to actually email somebody who's there and say, hey, should I do this or what's a must do thing? It helps a lot. And as I say, the Internet is wonderful, but you can find the answer you're looking for if you ask the question often enough. Kerry Newsome: [00:31:38] I agree totally. And I think that the personal aspect is a big thing. And talking to somebody that you can trust, that you feel has got a lot of history in the place and reputation. And that's why I was glad to have you on. Because you have had that experience and reputation. Look, great to have you on. Won't take up any more of your time. Thank you again for your time and information. Everyone that's listening, I'll be able to put Jeremy's information in the episode notes. You can go to the website at www.whataboutvietnam.com and a page will be there devoted to this episode. You can always reach out to me any time and I will put you in contact with the right people. Thanks again, Jeremy, for being on the show. Jeremy Stein: [00:32:25] Ok, Kerry, lovely to see you and hope to meet up for a cold one in Vietnam soon. Kerry Newsome: [00:32:30] Absolutely.!!! Check out the episode notes. See the page on the website - www.whataboutvietnam.com Speaker1: [00:32:32] Don't forget to subscribe, write and review and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam. What about Vietnam!

S5-E26 Wellness Tourim - A fresh take from Hoi An S5-E26 - Wellness Tourism in Vietnam – A Fresh Take from Hoi An Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. I'm delighted to be here in Hoi An and learning more about wellness and the various modalities springing up all around the township. You know, in my short time here, I've been amazed to find some new and interesting variations on the theme designed to build our strength from yoga classes and even TRX on the beach to learning about what ails us through our hair follicles and a hair follicle analysis and treatments like vitamin C, IV drip procedures. And then following right behind you, you'll find on every single corner, a massage and spa establishment, promising everything starting with pampering and blissful moments of relaxation at very affordable prices. You can possibly afford to do more than one during your stay. And don't miss the new hair baths. They are divine. More on that. And I'll put some links in the show notes. first a little bit about my guest today. As our focus in today's episode is going to be on the peaceful riverbanks of Hoi An at the beautiful Namia River Retreat, joining me is someone I really admire, and that is Michelle Ford. Now, Michelle is not only the general manager of NAMIA, she is also the founding partner and CEO of Lumina Wellbeing, a consultancy shaping integrated wellness experiences across Asia. She actually brings decades of experience to the table, having launched over seven wellness lifestyle hotels in Vietnam and managed 15 luxury spas across Thailand and the Maldives. She's been on the show before, and while we did it remotely, it's been lovely to spend some time with her and do this interview with her on location. So just great to have her on board. You might know her name more from her pioneering work at Fusion Maya. I mean, a location that really hit accolades under her leadership and earned some global notoriety in the time. Michelle is now leading the charge at Namiat River Retreat which opened under her guidance in late 24. So it's a real newbie. With a deep respect for Vietnamese healing traditions and a passion for mindful, sustainable luxury, Michelle is setting new standards for wellness hospitality. Deanne Pham, also on the show as Director of Sales, she will be joining us and I'll be happy to share her extensive background as well a little bit later. I hope you'll settle back. We've got a big show ahead. Wellness is our focus today and if you're looking to build that into your holiday in Vietnam, you're in the right place. So let's get to it. Firstly, over to you, Michelle. Lovely to have you on the show. Great to see you after all this time. Michelle Ford: Thank you for having us. It's so nice to see you in person this time too. Kerry Newsome: Yes, that remote thing is kind of fun, but not quite as nice. I really want to dig deep into this subject and I know you're well positioned to ask these questions. So forgive me if we kind of get a bit deep and meaningful, but I think that's going to help people make some choices about their wellness state in Vietnam. So can you give us just a bit of an overview of the current state of wellness and wellness tourism in Vietnam? Michelle Ford: Yes, I would say it's really on the rise now. There's so much awareness for wellness tourism. I would say almost every project now is interested to integrate wellness in some way into their offerings. And the market is demanding it too. So it's really at its infancy, but on the rise fast. Kerry Newsome: And I think if I was to say that Vietnam probably wouldn't feature as number one on the list of countries in the Southeast Asia region, that'd be fair to say, wouldn't it, at this point? Michelle Ford : Yes, absolutely. We still see much more awareness for tourism and Bali, sorry, not for tourism, for Thailand and Bali. India, you know, all these have a stronger reputation for wellness and retreats and wellness programming, but Vietnam has all of that. It's just not had the same level of awareness and opportunity to showcase what is on offer in terms of Vietnamese wellness. Kerry Newsome : And like, I think if I was to draw on my own personal experience in Vietnam, It is an evolving landscape. I think that wellness and spas and spa resorts and things like that, whilst they were used as words to describe some places in Vietnam, they didn't actually kind of go hand in hand with luxury. They didn't kind of go with a very holistic approach, did they? They were kind of started up and they'd have a spa room and then they'd kind of advocate to be a spa and wellness retreat, where that wasn't really quite the go, was it? Michelle Ford: Yes, I think the whole holistic package didn't come together in the more affordable segment or in the luxury segment. Both had their own strengths and weaknesses. But now you really see with the better awareness of wellness and what it means, the skills on the rise in terms of wellness practitioners. spaces being designed better to accommodate retreats and programs, we really see that we're getting to be in a better position to offer the market the same level of luxury wellness that you can find abroad. Kerry Newsome: And I think that's where the comparison is going to come. I think particularly for the Westerner, as in you're Australians, you're US, you're Europeans, UK, you know, a lot of my listeners are coming from these regions. So their expectations are quite different, I think, to our Vietnamese neighbours. So if you're talking about Japan, Taiwan, Korea, all the rest of it. I think those countries are looking for something different to us. Would that be fair to say? Michelle Ford: Yes, for sure. I think also as our modern lifestyles in the West have got more stressful, more pressured on time, we really value our time away and we really need much more deeper relaxation than before, where a general holiday would have sufficed. Now it's not really enough. And in terms of our current lifestyles, it's already much more modern too, in terms of better food, doing our yoga practices at home, and we really want to continue that on our holidays. Kerry Newsome : So, Michelle, let's explore a little bit more kind of post-pandemic trends. I mean, we can't leave COVID out of the picture. And I do think it influenced some wellness tourism advocacy for Vietnam. And I think even Vietnam tourism saw that there was an opportunity for this genre of travel to grow. What would you say were some of the big factors there? Michelle Ford: Yes, I mean, there's such a strong awareness after COVID in terms of understanding what is wellness and why it's important to us in our lives. In the Vietnamese market, particularly, health and wellness come hand in hand, very strongly focused on types of food and organic, natural food, but also the pollution on the rise in Saigon and places like that. They really value also the fresh air and the nature connection. Other activities linked to wellness like trekking really became super popular, just getting out into nature. In terms of the industry itself, I had attended a hospitality event prior to COVID as a speaker and there was almost no interest in wellness and the wellness was not on the conversation in this event at all. And last week I attended another event in Saigon and every single operator was talking about wellness. Wellness was the main subject of this event. So we're talking about that level of awareness in three years from almost nothing to the main subject on the table. Kerry Newsome : And I find that fascinating because, as you say, if COVID did nothing else, it forced us to evaluate our level of health from a very holistic perspective. And then also, I think when the doors opened, I think people then took great care and consideration around where they were going to go, that they felt safe. And they, you know, because Vietnam kind of weathered the storm relatively well, I think, in terms of other countries. But also seeing Vietnam take that and be able to step up now onto the plate of wellness is just It's really inspiring and I've seen it myself in various locations around Vietnam, not just in Hoi An, but certainly, you know, up in Yen Bai, I was visiting up there recently and beautiful property up there called Garia. And, you know, I've been to Hue and you would be aware, Michelle, of the Alba Resort. And, you know, now here we are in Namia And Hoi An really needs this level of wellness, I think. Even though you may be a little bit remiss by thinking, oh, it's got spas and massage places and all the rest of it, that doesn't actually equal wellness per se, does it? I think people say, oh, it's got spas and you can get a massage and whatever. But for me, when I come to a wellness retreat, I'm looking for something more than just a spa and a massage. I'm looking for a feeling. I know it kind of sounds a bit cliche, but it's that zen, isn't it? It's just that quietness. So talk to us, Michelle, about you know, how you see that being created in Vietnam? Because it's a fairly noisy place. Yes. Michelle Ford: I think Vietnam is really good that we can create this middle way of wellness, if I can call it like that. where it's not a normal resort with just a spa that's kind of a luxury service here and there during your stay, but it's also not a strict regimented retreat that you've chosen for a specific purpose or a need that you have in your life at that time. Having this middle wellness lifestyle orientation, I feel, is something that we can all integrate into our daily lives and be sure that it's something we do while we're on holiday, but also while we're at home. So we gather these practices and things to take with us. So when we do it that way, it's not just the spa, it's the food, it's the philosophy of the team, it's the activities. It has to be a good quality yoga or an excellent quality meditation, not someone that was trained without all the qualifications behind it, for example. and someone that can really hold the space to guide this gentle transformation or give us new awareness that we didn't have back home because we are practicing yoga or meditation already. Kerry Newsome : And I think one of the things that I noticed about coming into NAMIA was, as you say, the level of training and the quality of staff, because it's almost the devil of detail, isn't it? Yes. It's the, you know, like I just absolutely loved, you know, being told about a ritual bath. to help sleeping. Now, being an insomniac, just the fact that that was something that this retreat had been thoughtful enough about to consider, see, that's another aspect to me of wellness. So not only is it a peaceful environment, as you say, with great practitioners, but I think a place that can envelope a very broad spectrum of holistic wellness, I think is going to be a game changer. Michelle Ford: Yes. I think firstly, if you're doing wellness in this way, the philosophy and the training of the staff have to be there because that links very much to our way of life, our mindfulness practices or our sustainability practices, which again, we'll be able to touch on better. And in addition to that, in terms of the wellness products, it's not just selecting a nice scent that's relaxing. It's being more targeted that we're building a program, speaking to the herbalist to understand what is going to help us achieve the goal of deeper rest or better sleep. Kerry Newsome : And where do you see the greatest challenges coming down the path for wellness in Vietnam? Michelle Ford: It is always partially people because the hospitality already has difficulty in some way to attract and retain people. But I think on the other hand, there's opportunities for those willing to invest in the people because if we, for example, train newcomers to the wellness industry, we will get them on a path that set them for life. We have to invest more time, energy and resources in the beginning, but long term, we have a much greater impact, not just on their lives, but also how they bring it to others. Kerry Newsome: And as you say, I mean, The challenge with staff I don't think is unique. I would say most hotels and resorts that I get to stay at, and I've got to know over the years, I think have all found, and especially since COVID, there was a lot of people that left the industry as a result of COVID and chose other careers. So that kind of left a bit of a gap, I think. And finding you know, people to bring back or new people to start investing. And then, you know, where is the schooling coming from? It's got to be coming from organizations, as you say, that are willing to invest in those people to train them because, you know, there's there's no actual major tourism training and, you know, F&B kind of stuff available in Vietnam. Michelle Ford : There's starting to be, you know, in terms of one hotel school in Fukuoka as well. But I would say hoteliers have to invest on the ground with their people. We have to start where we are and then the rest will take place. And it becomes so critical because people are joining for these values. And if you are not showing that you are living by these values, they don't want to join also. You know, so we have to really understand the mindset shift of people that want to join. They want to know that they're connected to this value and this vision. Kerry Newsome : So when I'm looking to advise my clients about a wellness package or a wellness stay in Vietnam, what should I be telling them that they should be looking for as far as a minimum standard that they should look for? And what kind of price levels are they having to expect that they need to pay to get that? Michelle Ford: Maybe I have to think for a second. Kerry Newsome : Okay, that's okay. Maybe I'll put it another way. So, when I'm talking to my clients, which as I said, my audience is global, so when I'm doing trip plans for people and bringing them over, some will ask about a a small chunk of that stay that they will want to go and stay at a wellness retreat. They want to break up the trip. They're coming maybe for 20 days or something like that. And they want to have three to five days where they just want to get away from it and they want to spoil themselves with a retreat. So what should they be looking for? What should I say to them that is a minimum standard that they should expect as a wellness retreat? Michelle Ford: I think a cohesive program, you know, not just the spa services and then you can have the meal in the restaurant off the a la carte and so on. I think it should be a designed program or package that includes the meals, the food, the activities, the treatments, all under one theme and one targeted goal. Because without that, the experience will feel a little bit ad hoc. Kerry Newsome : So, so that I understand, so you are saying that a room rate actually comes with an all-inclusive kind of activity package, which it essentially does here in Namia, which I liked. And the reason I liked it, and I don't know whether it's appropriate to say this, But then I have the choice to say no to any of it, but I have the choice to say yes to everything without feeling I've got to put my hand in my pocket again. So that's a luxury in itself. You know you've paid for your room rate and appreciating the fact that it's probably more expensive than you would pay in an average hotel. But the fact that it comes with, you know, your beautiful breakfast, you know, your ritual bath, your access, free access to the gym, you know, your lovely spa treatment and all those things without thinking about it. I can just leisurely take all that in without the fear of, oh, can I afford that? Or, you know, should we do that or that kind of thing? Michelle Ford: And you know, money is one part, but the other part is also this feeling, this like inner guilt that we carry to take that time for ourselves. That is. And now that it's kind of assigned to you, there's something that releases that inner guilt that, can I take 90 minutes now? You know, I should spend it with the family or I should do this. You know, all of that is released and you feel more interested and willing to join something with a peace of mind. Kerry Newsome: I totally agree. I don't know why we're guilty about looking after ourselves or treating ourselves, but we are. And I hope we can inspire people to rethink that through the show. But lovely to have you on, Michelle. Is there something else you'd like to kind of share with my listeners about the wellness spectrum in Vietnam so that we can wrap up? Michelle Ford: get in while you can, because it's going to become more and more and more popular. And what it's offering right now is very fresh, very authentic, and very unique. Kerry Newsome : And I think one of the things, if I can just add to that, I think there is a feeling that Vietnam really wants to impress. They really want to step up to the plate. So there's no complacency. You know, it's the new kid on the block, really, in as far as comparisons to other Southeast Asian countries like we talked about with Bali and Thailand. And I think the fact that it does want to impress means that they are well tuned to go the extra mile. And I think that's what I'm seeing. Michelle Ford: Absolutely. When Vietnam starts a movement, it moves fast. They've got the resources and the people to make it happen. So I believe Vietnam will be a major player in the wellness industry in the future. Kerry Newsome : Michelle, thanks for coming on the show. It's been lovely to chat and we will share more about NAMIA because I'm going to bring the lovely Deanne on and we're going to dig deep into NAMIA. As we continue our deep dive into the wellness spirit of Namia River Retreat, I'm delighted to introduce another key voice behind the magic. Deanne Pham, Director of Sales at Namia joins us. Deanne brings an inspiring mix of sharp commercial insight and soulfulness to the show and Her wisdom in this role is quite expansive. She's had 15 years across luxury hospitality, inbound travel, international media, and destination management. She's played an essential role in shaping NAMIA's market presence. I first met Deanne in her role at the Alba Wellness Retreat. So it's a welcome and joyful surprise to meet up with her again at NAMIA and have time with her here on location. I think what really makes Deanne's perspective special is her holistic background. She's not just a sales leader, she's also a certified yoga teacher, a Reiki master, and a holistic health coach. Her lived experience in wellness allows her to connect Namia's vision with what today's mindful travelers are truly seeking. And I think she's got some good homegrown instincts to that. She has this incredible ability to bridge the practical and the spiritual and I can't wait for you to hear how she weaves those together in today's show. So let's welcome Dien the program. Now, Deanne, it's great to have you on the program. It's been a while since we've chatted. Last time I got together with you, we were talking about another wellness retreat, which is called ALBA and it's in Hue. And I had a divine stay there. Oh, that's probably pre-COVID. And to me, that was kind of my early journey into wellness in Vietnam. So, you know, being knew with the podcast and I was only a couple of years into the podcast at that stage. I felt I had to get my head around wellness. I could see the change coming and I could see development everywhere and it was a great start. But now here we are in Hoi An with Namia and great to see you now in the role of Director of Sales. So let's dig deep. Deanne, how does Namia Retreat cater to kind of the ever-changing needs and expectations of travellers? Because, you know, let's face this, you know, us travellers can be demanding at times, you know, what are they looking for in a wellness retreat at Namia? Dien Pham : Yeah, when I experienced both, let's say, a comprehensive and intensive wellness retreat and also now at Namia, I think that nowadays people looking when they come to the wellness retreat, let's say Namia River retreat, it's more lifestyle retreat rather than hardcore. When I come to some wellness show and expo, and people a little bit hesitate about hardcore health, then they have to stay disconnected. Or when they have to strictly go vegan, I mean it's very good, but to the majority of people, It's more about lifestyle wellness and they can be also be educational, very light. They can bring something home to start and transform their lifestyle. So Namya Refugees have a tackle on that angle of the needs of people to be on both relaxation and culture, but still experience something about lifestyle wellness and they can take home. start to restart their life in the ways be easier and more wellness-oriented. Kerry Newsome : And are there specific experiences that they're looking for that they have highlighted that they really want to experience here? Dien Pham : I would say in terms of the wellness, the first thing is the traditional Vietnamese herbology or called Tuoc Nam. So that is inclusive and 90 minutes wellness journey every day inspired by Vietnamese herbology . and also all the mindful moments, also inspired by Vietnamese ways of mindfulness. For example, silent walk, inspired by Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh. The lantern ritual, very much inspired by Hoi An lantern releasing. Also Vietnamese Zung Sing or Tai Chi, the way that Vietnamese people practice in the morning around the Hoan Kiem Lake. For some cultural experience, like morning guided bicycle trail to see the old town in the morning, which is very authentic, sitting by the river, have some coffee. So that is the experience I really want to highlight. And last but not least, the Hoi An, the Two Bone River is very beautiful and stunning with the sunset. And we offer complimentary sunset cruise all the way down to Old Town. And you can see beautiful, stunning and peaceful sunset with some cocktail and canapé is the iconic experience you shouldn't miss when you stay at Namia. Kerry Newsome : And what's the kind of feedback that you're getting from clients after they have their stay and they experience some of these things? What are they saying to you? Dien Pham : One key word to pop up in my head is quality sleep. Kerry Newsome: I can relate to that. Dien Pham: Yeah, because we incorporate the thing that the environment of Namia is surrounded by the river, which already make you feel impregnated and calm and combined with the quality of linen on the bed and the atmosphere and all the treatment about Vietnamese herbology. and also good food. And I got some people said that I sleep like a baby for a long time, especially some busy people, some people traveling, jet lag, or busy thinking like us. And they can be able to switch off, reset in very short time and have quality sleep. And that also combined with the sleep yoga as well. Kerry Newsome: Are you targeting a particular audience? Are you targeting a particular age group? Talk to us about the people that you're attracting. Who's coming to NAMIA? Dien Pham: I would say there are two major targeting audience in terms of demographic. The first one is something people more mature, let's say from 30 plus, wealthy and well-educated and very strong focus on sustainability as well. So they are busy people, well paid, but sometimes they get very little me time, so they're looking for some retreat that they can reset, retract, and rejuvenate as well. The second audience, or let's say targeting client, I think that even now with young trend setter, I mean, we're talking about Gen Z, the people now are so young, but they catch the trend. They want to stay something they can look after themselves when they still can stay hybrid and working when they travel. So they love something funky. but still sustainable, but also photogenic as well, and some well-tech in terms of the well-being. Kerry Newsome: Okay, so this is a good segue into talking about sustainability. How does NAMIA integrate sustainability into its wellness programs? Dien Pham : We think when we're talking about client needs and the journey, and we always see that wellness, luxury and sustainability, it's three very crucial angle and go harmony with each other. In terms of the sustainability at NAMIA, we will divide in terms of economical sustainability, social and environment. For that, we will practice, like eliminate all the single-yield plastic within the resort and set up different refilling water station in the resort. For social, for environment, we use all the eco-friendly cleaning supplier. Try to good for the team, good for the environment, but also for the guest feeling. We also recruit, I think, 89% of the local staff to really bring the livelihood and the career opportunity for the local people. And with all the beautiful product setting in the spa area, in the breakfast and in the area, we try to go as much hyper-local supplier as possible. to really showcase what the best we have in the local area to showcase to our guests and that get a feeling of very authentic. Kerry Newsome : I must admit yesterday I was really impressed with my time in the spa, not just about the spa, but the use of your local herbs and the infusion of those local herbs into the spa treatment. So like when this lovely girl broke those leaves of that beautiful basil and all those, the fragrances, the aroma was just so enriching, that aroma kind of stayed with me like nothing else has whenever I've kind of been in these environments. So I'm really impressed with that. And as you say, I think the harmony that you've been able to create with the villas and the closeness to the river and the foliage and the beautiful greenery setting, You know, you do feel like you are a world within a world in Hoi An. And, you know, I'm a regular visitor to Hoi An as as you would know. So I've been coming for probably 14 years. So it's it's kind of crazy to me because. As many times as I've been here, I don't think I've felt like I've been in Hoi An but out of Hoi An. but I'm still in Hoi An while I'm here in Namia. So I can access it very easily, which is great. But I don't feel like I've got the hubba hubba of Hoi An right on my doorstep. You know, I'm not going to have karaoke start up next door or all that kind of thing. So it is delightful in that. And I think that's a joy for your senses as a person. And, you know, as you say, you're attracting that busy person and certainly a lot of my listeners are busy, well-educated, you know, above that 40 range where their careers are on fire and they've got, you know, demanding families and, you know, they're looking for an escape. So, you know, it's great that you now offer this so close to the beautiful town of Hoi An and everyone can access that. What would you say, you know, would be key for people to experience at Namia that as a minimum thing, they have to at least do this to get the best out of Namia? What would that be? Just the spa treatment or is it something else? Dien Pham : Let me think for a minute. Kerry Newsome : That's OK. I mean, I would I'll tell you what I would pick. I'm going to definitely do the bath ritual. because that's something I have not experienced. And maybe you can explain how it works, but from what I understand is the bath has some herbs in the bath and you enjoy a tea with it. Is that right? Dien Pham: The bath and the tea is separate. So one day you can have a bath soak ritual and the other day can be sleep enhancement tea. So that not go pair up but separate alternatively. Kerry Newsome : I might pair it up just because I'm an insomniac. I need a lot of help in sleep. Dien Pham : Yeah, but when talking about apart from some key thing you shouldn't miss, so that I would say the evening in-room ritual and emphasize that is the herbal bath ritual. I can spend a week to talk about that because I keep talking with Michelle. Let's say our Heartful daily life ritual and I have been experiencing that since my childhood because We really want to bring something very authentic in our Vietnamese well-being ritual and introduce to our guests. Because in my childhood, whenever we get sick, get cold, stomach upset, my mom always have extra herb remedy ready to make decoction for us or to make the bath so we can soak our entire body into the steam with the herb scents beautifully. And for me, the bath ritual is not only way we're looking our body, but also our soul, because my mom passed all the compassion, the love to us. And then when we get sick, we serve into that, we serve into the recipe of the heartfelt care, and we recover very quickly. And that's the way we try to transform our daily ritual to the guests also. And I hope our guests can feel that when they enjoy everyday bath ritual at Namya River Retreat in the private pool villa. Kerry Newsome : And would you have like a memorable experience or a feedback from a client that stick in your mind that they really enjoyed? Is there someone or an experience of someone that they shared with you about their stay that you can recall? Dien Pham : Suddenly, I remember the moment in tears about one of the clients, one of the ladies. She accidentally got cold when she traveled and the stomach upset. And then we tried our best with our nurse coming to look after her, give her some of the facial reflexology and some electrical stuff as well. And then she recovered and she got all the treatment, she got all the herbal congee. And then when she checked out, she said that usually she complained when she got sick on traveling. But now she feels so grateful because without that, she didn't know that is how efficient and so beautiful is our Vietnamese herbology treatment is so efficient. And also she has been looking after by all amazing people that she feel as a family. And she checked out in tears. And then after one month, she go back to Vietnam. She come back to say hello, everyone. So that moment really touched our heart that when we serve by our heart with all the emotion and the care we get and we didn't expect anything back that how Vietnamese people and Vietnamese hospitality is and that make us very unique compared to other culture as well. Kerry Newsome : And I think traveling, whether you like it or not, especially long haul travelers, I think it's something that I'm most careful when I'm doing trip plans is to remind people about the rigors of traveling. Traveling is quite harsh on the body and on our minds, et cetera, as well. But I think people, if you are thinking about a stay in Vietnam, I think you would be wise to incorporate some level of wellness and some kind of stay like this, just to go home feeling like you are recharged, not feeling like you've rung out and you've been everywhere in Vietnam and ticked all the boxes, but like you get home and you're exhausted and you haven't got that good feeling. You know, for me, I've always tried to go home feeling better than when I left. And, you know, I have to be well aware that whilst I've wanted to see a lot of Vietnam and there's so much to see in Vietnam that you want to do, try and incorporate just those few days, two to three days probably even. If you've got more time, more time. And I've got some clients that spent four or five days and wish they'd stayed seven. You know, I think everyone is unique, but I think incorporating some wellness into your stay in Vietnam will bring you back to Viet more times than, you know, your rush, rush, rush, tick the boxes, top to bottom, bottom to top type tours, which Vietnam was very characteristic of certainly leading up to COVID. But Michelle and I talked about post-COVID and I think we are a changing landscape. Dan, can you share with us where people can find NAMIA? So your Instagram, you're on Facebook. Yeah. Dien Pham: Yeah, so people can find us on Instagram, Facebook, on LinkedIn, by type Namia River Retreat. And we are so delighted to share all the meaningful and beautiful moment on social media. Kerry Newsome : Excellent. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that I should have asked you about Namia that I should be telling everyone that's listening. Dien Pham : Yeah, I think that's short and sweet enough to stick in the memory. Kerry Newsome: Okay. Thanks. Thanks, Deanne. Look, Vietnam's always on the move, evolving, shifting, growing. It makes it hard to predict exactly where wellness traveler will land next, but I'll tell you this. Vietnam is climbing the ranks fast. And when I say wellness travel, I'm talking about real rejuvenation, mind, body and soul. What's really elevating it now is the luxury factor, stunning resorts, top tier service, incredible food and a wealth of healing treatments delivered by people who really know their stuff. What each of us looks for in wellness is different. It's deeply personal, it's shaped by where we come from, our culture, our past travel experiences and of course our budget. So what works for me might be totally different from what works for you. That's why it really pays to stay curious, ask questions, dig a little deeper, do your homework, and most importantly, stay open to new experiences. As I said, be aware of those fresh herbs, that local feel, that authentic cuisine, and those beautiful warm smiles. If you don't get them, you're in the wrong place. you might just discover something incredible, as I said, a world within a world. I'll share some more details about my experiences in Namia and in Hoi An as I've experienced it this time. And I can honestly say I'm really impressed and truly loving my time. Thanks, Dien.Thanks, Michelle, for being on the show. Michelle Ford : Thank you so much, Kerry, for having us. And so lovely to be enjoying this with this stunning view of the river today. Kerry Newsome : It's just a gorgeous day, isn't it? Thank you. I'd like to extend a very heartfelt thank you to NAMIA River Retreat for sponsoring this episode. While NAMIA is a valued sponsor, I want to assure you that the thoughts and insights I've shared throughout the show reflect my own genuine experiences and observations As always, my goal is to bring you honest, inspiring stories to help you make the most of your travels in Vietnam and more particularly help you make wise choices. So, I hope you've enjoyed the program and I look forward to bringing you many more in the future.

S5-E23 - Caving and Trekking in Phong Nha’s Tu Lan Cave System S5- E23 – Pushing Limits, Finding Magic – Caving and Trekking in Phong Nha’s Tu Lan Cave System Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. I thought I'd just jump in with a little bit of an intro here to this recording. It was done with my husband in Hanoi and it is a podcast that's just going to focus on one particular experience and that is the experience of the Tu Lan cave system in Phong Nha through the OXALIS tour group. And this experience was one had by my husband, so rarely will you get him to come on and do something like this, but I was thrilled that he did and I think you're going to get a lot out of it. I hope you will see it as some kind of insight to help you make a decision as to whether or not you would like to do caving or trekking or hiking, as Andrew goes into quite a bit of detail about what you can expect, what kind of fitness that you would need or don't need to do it, and just how well-organized Oxalis is in delivering that program for you. As I said, this is actually recorded in Hanoi. There is a little bit of background noise, so I hope you'll be forgiving of that, but you can't get any more authentic than this, I can tell you. So sit back, enjoy, and please welcome Andrew Newsome to the program. Now, people, this could not be any more authentic if it tried. I'm sitting here on the balcony of our hotel in Hanoi, just having come back from Phong Nha, and I'm sitting here with my husband, and this is… a happening interview, which I never thought would ever happen, as in I would ever get the chance to interview my husband on this show. But it's only because, and he's only agreed to do it because he has had such an amazing experience in Fongya doing the Tu Lan (4) four-day expedition with the Oxalis Adventure Group Company. And I didn't want to let time lapse before I interviewed him because he's been on such a high and he can remember everything and it's kind of vivid. I just wanted to do it now. I'm just hoping that there's not too much street noise, and if there is some background that you do pick up, people, please forgive me, it's just authentic Vietnam in its truest, most realistic self. Please, will you welcome Andrew Newsome to the program. Hello, Andrew. Andrew Newsome : Hi, Kerry. It's great to be here. Kerry Newsome: Okay, I'm going to treat you gently, but I'm going to definitely pick your brains about this day because I have to say that this is all about the expedition. It's all about those four days doing this caving trip, and I'm sure you're going to get a lot out of it from Andrew. So, Andrew, Maybe can we start with your motivation to do it in the first place? When we were sitting back in Australia and making up some plans for Vietnam, it was always on the map, but why this one? What was the kind of the reason behind you wanting to do this two-land, four-day expedition? Why this one? Andrew Newsome: So I didn't even know that there were caves in Vietnam until I heard your interview with Howard Limbert, who helped set up Exalis and discovered quite a few of these caves. And then from that, I had a look at their websites and I just thought it would be a fantastic thing to do. The Son Doong Cave, which is in the same area, is like the largest cave in the world and there's a whole bunch of other cave systems. I have done some caving before when I was in like Boy Scouts as a kid and a little bit in the army as part of adventure training, so I knew I really enjoyed that. I quite enjoy hiking and jungles and wildlife and all that sort of stuff. So when I had a look at the Oxalis website, they had a range of available guided tours ranging from like a half day trip that's suitable for the whole family all the way up to four and five day adventure treks through the jungle and the caves. The Son Dung cave is kind of the, you know, like the flagship trip and you basically spend the entire four days traversing through and sleeping overnight in Son Doong cave but that only has very limited spots available. And by the time I got round to booking, that one wasn't available. But when I had a look at all the other tours, the two-land, four-day expedition looked like a really good combination of trekking through the jungle and going through a range of different types of caves. So I thought that was probably the best one for me. Kerry Newsome : So, for everyone out there who's, you know, considering doing the same thing, it is an exciting thing to do, but there's a lot of talk about levels of fitness, you know, what trip and what activity would suit you best. Maybe, Andrew, you know, kind of speak to people about level of fitness to do this. Now, I want to preface this because The occasion that we did this trip and had time in Phong Nha, would you believe it, it was a heatwave. So, we're talking like 40 to 43 degrees at the time and it is April 2024. So, that was kind of not expected, not planned for and neither hoped for. So, that added a level of difficulty to it. But, Andrew, speak to us a little bit about just what level of fitness you need to do something like this two-land one. And on the day, on just talking generally about the people that joined you on it, what their level of fitness was as you witnessed it going about? Andrew Newsome : I've only obviously done one Oxalis tour, but it's obvious from the website that they have a range of tours that suit different levels of fitness. The Tu Lan, four-day expedition, the Hang Ba deep jungle expedition and the Son Doong expedition. sound like they're the three most difficult ones. Kerry Newsome : Level six, does that mean anything? Andrew Newsome : Yeah, Oxalis have like a six level system and they filter all their trips across those different levels and you can see that on the website. But for the hardest ones, I think you would definitely not only need fitness, but you probably want experience as well, so that you have the confidence. So, you would need experience. Trekking. Overnight trekking experience, climbing up and down steep terrain, rocky terrain, scrambling over rocks and boulders. For this one, there's swimming through the caves, so you need to be a reasonably confident swimmer. You don't need to be a strong swimmer. There's no strong currents. You've got a life jacket on, but you need to be comfortable in the water so that you can get in the water and swim through the caves and enjoy it rather than worrying about the environment. Kerry Newsome: And just that swimming bit, that's like fully clothed with your trekking boots on and everything, isn't it? Like, we're not saying strip down to your swimmers and take a nice dive and walk through. We're talking about from one side to the other with your backpack on your back, fully clothed, sort of getting out the other end, am I right? Andrew Newsome : Yes, but I certainly didn't find that too difficult or too unusual. And because of the heat, it was fantastic to get into the caves, which are much cooler than the outdoors. And the water in the caves and in the river systems is much cooler. So being able to cool down in the water and then continue on with wet clothes was actually a benefit. If you came in the cooler part of the year, around December, January, I believe it gets quite cool. So then, you know, doing that swimming and then getting out with wet clothes would be more challenging. Kerry Newsome : Alright, so let's start with our itinerary so we can take people through it so they can, you know, know right from the get-go what they're looking at. So first night, what are we looking at? Andrew Newsome : So the first and the last night are in, you know, in some ways not part of the expedition itself. The first night was at local farmstay, which was just some bungalow accommodation by the river that Oxalis use. I think you can stay there separately, but it's mostly used by Oxalis so that they can get everyone for all of their tours together in one place and make sure that they can start on time. on the first day. So I stayed there overnight and then got picked up by a minibus with all the other people from my tour and driven to Tulane Lodge, which is in close vicinity of the Tulane cave system. And that's where we got all our equipment and got ready to go from there. Kerry Newsome : What I'm hearing and what I've heard from other people too is you got a really good feeling really from the get-go about just the level of planning, organisation and training that you were going to get to use equipment and the people involved. So, maybe speak to us a little bit about that. Because for me that would be a big thing if I kind of from day one got that confidence that, you know, the people really knew their stuff, that would help me be confident to keep going. Andrew Newsome: First thing in the morning at the local farmstay, there was like four or five different groups and, you know, the staff were running around trying to sort us into the right groups so that we all got on the right bus and went to the right start point. And that was a little bit interesting. But once we got through that, it was fine. We got to the Lodge, got like a series of little sort of outdoor briefing rooms, and there's a PowerPoint, and they take you through all the stuff you need to know, all the safety, what equipment they're going to give you, what stuff you need to bring yourself, the system that they have where you carry the minimum amount of stuff. They have porters who carry other stuff. You can get rid of dirty and wet clothes each morning and it gets brought back to the lodge and you pick it up at the end and through all those different systems so that you understand how it's all going to work. Kerry Newsome: And it sounds, when we were talking about it just between you and I, it was just good to get a feel for the group that you were in was kind of mixed and maybe speak to that so people can feel like not everybody in the group is these you know, high-end or high-octane adventurers, you know. I think for me when I first envisaged it, I envisaged very young people, very active people, you know, everybody be there in the super-duper gear and all that sort of stuff, where that actually wasn't the case, was it? It was kind of your, more your average type person, Andrew Newsome : It was very much, it was a bit of a mixed bag. So the trip that I did was over the reunification day, long weekend. So Oxalis were very busy. And the number of domestic tourists from Vietnam that are doing these tours has only increased in the last couple of years. And because it was a long weekend here in Vietnam, there were even more. So, from my group of seven, there were five Vietnamese, myself and a French guy who's been living in Australia for the last 10 years. And from the various other groups that I saw or that we passed on the trail, I would say maybe two thirds to three quarters of the participants were Vietnamese and the other, you know, 30% or so were various different types of Westerners. Kerry Newsome : But all mixed levels of capability, I guess, in this kind of experience. Because what I found outstanding about this, and we didn't really know, or I didn't really know until later, was that the Tu Lan expedition is actually touted as more difficult than the Son Doong for strenuous activities and involving kind of endurance factors that you don't need as much in the Son Doong Cave. So, because this has got trekking and it's got jungle and it's got caving, those three levels combined makes this kind of the most difficult. But you found that there was varying levels of skills amongst your group. They weren't really, you know, the high level achievers. Andrew Newsome : I'm pretty sure everyone in our group had previous experience doing tracking. So, they may not have all have done something as difficult as this, but I'm pretty sure they've all done similar stuff or, you know, maybe not quite as hot or not quite as long. But I think they definitely all had some experience. So everyone in our group completed all the activity. The two safety staff who came with us in addition to the lead guide were obviously very experienced. They recognised which people were less confident than others and they sort of provided a level of assistance to them. So like when they're scrambling up over rocks, they're like, you know, put your foot here, grab my hand and I'll pull you up a little bit. helping them with their balance over the uneven terrain and that sort of stuff. Kerry Newsome : Okay, so let's talk about some of the activities then individually. Talk to us a little bit about the hiking element. Andrew Newsome : So, it was almost all through the jungle. There are a few patches where you're going through a valley where it's a bit more open, but most of it was through the jungle, and a lot of it was quite steep uphill or downhill, and quite a bit of it was over very uneven and rocky terrain. So often you were kind of scrambling over boulders and rocks. you know, the slopes were often around about 45 degrees, which is quite steep. Fortunately, considering the heat, when you're in the jungle, you're pretty much always in the shade, which made it a little bit cooler. And then it just opened out a few times around the valleys and around some of the rivers. Kerry Newsome: And then the swimming element. We talked a little bit about that before, but maybe give us a bit of a deep dive into that. Andrew Newsome : So there were quite a few rivers that we had to get across. Some of them we just sort of walked across because they were like knee deep. There was a couple that we had to swim across and a few of the caves were wet caves, which basically means, you know, the cave's half full of water and you need to swim all the way through it. Anytime we were actually swimming, there were life jackets provided and we all had to wear them. I'm a reasonably strong swimmer and I'm confident I could have done any of the swimming without a life jacket, but I had no issues wearing it. You're there to experience the cave, so just being able to float along and look around rather than having to concentrate on swimming was great and definitely, I think, added to it overall. Kerry Newsome : And I imagine just from the pictures I've seen that just that lovely coolness of being in the water, just being able to look up 360 degrees must have been awesome. You mentioned also about rafting. So, talk to us a little bit about, I mean, I know you said there was no rapids or rough water, but there was definitely crossing rivers inside the cave, believe it or not, and you were rafting. So, talk about that. Andrew Newsome : I think to mix it up as much as anything, there was like a river crossing that we could have swum across, but they had like a big inflatable raft positioned there and we used that to get across. And then in one of the caves later on, where we were abseiling down off a cliff into the water, Instead of, obviously it takes a little bit of time for each person to individually abseil down, so instead of having people sitting in the water, waiting for everyone else to abseil down, you abseil down onto a raft, and then sat there on the raft until everyone else had come down, and then you could either stay on the raft and paddle out, or you could get into the water at that point and swim out of the cave. Kerry Newsome : Okay. And you mentioned also something about ladder climbing. What's that? Andrew Newsome : Yeah, so there was just one part where we needed to go up an almost vertical section and it wasn't really suitable for climbing or scrambling up. So there's a permanent ladder there that went up about probably 15 metres. And just as a safety thing while climbing that ladder, you put your harness back on and you're clipped onto a line so that if you slipped off the ladder you wouldn't fall. Kerry Newsome : Okay, so one of the things that I was really impressed about when we were talking about it afterwards was your impression of the organisation. Like, you just couldn't speak highly enough about the planning, the safety briefings, the descriptions. And considering you're coming to a country, you know, that English is the second language. You know, you don't have that kind of familiarity to give you some sense of confidence. You really raved about it. Can you speak to us just a little bit more about that? Because I think that for people who are making the journey to come to Vietnam in the first place, coming to Phong Nha and then doing something like this, I just think, let's answer that. Let's really put to bed that so people can feel really good about it. Andrew Newsome : Yeah, I thought from go to woe, the whole thing was very well organised. Obviously, they've spent a lot of time refining their processes and their itineraries and putting everything in place in the background so that everyone who comes on the trip can focus on having a really good time and all the logistics and all the stuff behind the scenes is taken care of. Kerry Newsome : Yeah. And, you know, I presume that kind of went also for your guides and the staff and, you know, you spoke of your guide, Annetta, and, you know, how great she was in leading everyone. So, porters and I heard even the food's good. Andrew Newsome : Yeah, yeah. So, Annetta, the lead guide, was fantastic. She spoke very good English and she explained everything that we needed to know twice, obviously once in Vietnamese and then once in English. She did a really good job of making sure all of us were having a good time, if we had any issues or anything that she or any of the other crew could fix, they were all over it. The itinerary was very well paced, so we never felt like we were in a rush or that we couldn't take the time to enjoy everything, but at the same time, it didn't really feel like we were ever wasting time. When we were hiking, because of the heat, we took quite regular breaks. You could cool down and drink and catch your breath if you needed to, and then we'd keep going. But we still got everywhere we needed to go, did everything we needed to do. It was really good. Kerry Newsome : And you haven't yet talked about the food. You raved about the food. Come on, like, let's get on to the food. Andrew Newsome : So the food was really good. Obviously, you're eating out in the jungle, but like it might be at the mouth of a cave and they throw down a tarp. And I don't know where all the food came from. The guys just kept opening their backpacks and pulling out more stuff. I guess you'd call it simple but traditional Vietnamese food. So there was a lot of pork, a lot of chicken. The first lunch we were making rice paper rolls and eating them at the entrance to a cave. Soups, fruit, all sorts of tasty things. There was a vegetarian in the group and there was extra stuff for her. And there was always plenty of food. Kerry Newsome : And, you know, it was something that I was worried about in the heat and, you know, thinking about how were they going to keep that food fresh, you know, along the duration of that time period, especially in the heat. But you said it just kind of seemed to come from nowhere and, you know, it was fresh as and you really enjoyed it. So, that was a good thing. Andrew Newsome : Yes, so the porters weren't walking with us, like we saw them at night, but during the day, as we were making our way through doing all the caves, they were obviously walking backwards and forwards to various pickup points that could be accessed by road or scooter or whatever. And they were picking up the food for that day or dropping off everyone's dirty clothes that we could get them at the end or whatever was needed to make it all happen. Kerry Newsome : So, if you were to provide everyone thinking about this, what tips would you have for them? Andrew Newsome : I think you definitely, to get the most out of it, you need to pick a tour that is suitable for your level of ability. Yeah. Kerry Newsome : And we knew that it wasn't for me, right? We knew that definitely. Andrew Newsome: Yes. Kerry Newsome : So, I think you've got to call it, haven't you? Andrew Newsome: Yeah, you know, you're probably going to be planning it in advance. So you might look at the tours and what's required and say, well, you know, maybe I can only do level two or level three. But if you're six or 12 months out and you spent that time doing a bunch of hiking and some overnight stuff, you could probably get to a higher level of fitness by the time you set out to do it. So I think Be realistic, but also don't sell yourself short, because I think I can't comment for any of the other tours on the website, because I've only done one of them. But I suspect if you push yourself just a little bit, you'll get the most out of it. Kerry Newsome : And as you say, it's just a matter of confidence and if you've done a few bits of trekking and a little bit of that kind of exercise to feel that way, you're going to be able to relax into it rather than treating it as a bit of a stretch or a challenge. I think to enjoy those kinds of things, If you go there relaxed and confident, then you enjoy it and you don't treat it like an arduous challenge that you've got to kind of competing with yourself to enjoy it. Before you go, I just, look, I know this is gonna be a challenge for you, but was there any, like, aha moment? Like, did you come to a point, because I thought your aha moment was actually right at the end when you rang me and said, you know, it was through, it was just absolute amazing, but was there any aha moment while you were doing it that you went, God, I'm just glad I'm here and I'm doing this. Was there anything in that? Andrew Newsome : Look, we've talked about a lot of stuff, but we haven't really talked about the caves. And I mean, obviously, the caves are mostly what it's about. Kerry Newsome : Knock yourself out, Andrew. Talk about the caves. Andrew Newsome: And just the caves themselves were amazing. The scale of them. the pristine nature. I'm not sure exactly what the system is, but access to these caves is government controlled. Exalis have got some sort of permit where they can only let so many people per year through them. Obviously, Oxalis are very invested in looking after the caves, so there's some areas you can't go into. You know, there's no rubbish. If anyone sees the tiniest scrap of rubbish, they pick it up and take it out with them. Kerry Newsome : That's great to hear. Andrew Newsome : Yeah, they're just beautiful caves. Some of them are massive. There's all different types of formations. As we were going through, Annette had a lot of information about how different types of formations formed and the calcium carbonate and the silicon dioxide and various other things that I can't remember now. Kerry Newsome : But would you have said prior to doing this, you were really into caves? Because I've been married to you for 20 years and I can't really think that you were into caves before. You'd go, yeah, you know, like we're going to go and visit caves. So, for you to go, oh, we haven't talked about the caves and how amazing they were. Andrew Newsome : I don't have a good answer to that. But seeing the photos of the caves in Vietnam and realising that they were something above and beyond what I've ever seen before in Australia, it just really looked like something that I knew I would enjoy. But even expecting that, I was just blown away by the variety, the scale, the unspoilt nature of the caves. It's fantastic. Kerry Newsome : Yeah, and I think they're really strong on keeping that unspoiled nature of the caves that, you know, that footprint of the tourist is very well monitored and they're under very strict conditions to do so. So that is good. But I think you also mentioned that there was some beautiful natural light coming through from various aspects of the caves, which they try and capture on film, but you got to be there really, don't you? Andrew Newsome : maybe one part of a tour that I was less into. was they have, at different points in different caves, they have some opportunity for some staged photographs. They know the best way to do it. They know the best settings to put on your camera or your iPhone to capture it. And you can do poses or whatever you want and get some really fantastic photos of you to put on your Instagram or whatever the kids do these days. Kerry Newsome : In just wrapping up, Andrew, is there anything I didn't ask you, anything else you just want to mention? Because this is your story, and I want to make sure that for you and for everyone listening, they just get everything they can from you on this tour. Andrew Newsome : I think we've covered it, Kerry. I can't recommend it enough. It definitely exceeded my expectations. If you're interested in caving, jungle, nature, trekking, a unique experience that it's difficult to get anywhere else, and you're in Vietnam, then I would absolutely recommend one of these trips. Kerry Newsome : Thanks a lot. I really appreciate you doing this because I know how much you love doing this kind of thing. I think everyone, you want to feel really honored to get this because this is really heartfelt and I think it's just fabulous that it turned out to be as good as we hoped. Andrew Newsome : Anything for you, my darling.

02ac6bda-343e-4b58-9776-faed892cffd7Inspired by love, Vietnam is an idyllic wedding destination What About Vietnam - Series 2 - 8 Vietnam - The perfect Wedding Destination Kerry Newsome: So, Nadine Zeigeldorf we are talking about Vietnam as a wedding destination. There's going to be some places that stands out. What are the most popular cities in Vietnam for weddings? Nadine Zeigeldorf: I think Vietnam overflows with extraordinarily beautiful places. Lots of people say Vietnam in the destination wedding categories as wanting to have something near the beach. For us I think the most popular choices would be the islands down in the south, Nha Trang, which is a really fun beach city; the extraordinary Ha Long Bay is a popular choice, and also of course Hoi An which is without a doubt everyone's favorite in the end. Kerry Newsome: So much charm in Hoi An. Nadine Zeigeldorf: And it's romantic with the beautiful, quiet little town with lanterns in the street. It that's magic. Kerry Newsome: It's pretty. And you know it's got all those beautiful doors and the old town as a great background for photos and I can just imagine it in wedding photos easily. Nadine Zeigeldorf: I think what's appealing about Hoi An in particular is we have an International Airport in Danang thirty minutes down the road. We have beautiful islands. We have fantastic beaches, we have a cute little river, we have the actual town that sits on the river we've got fabulous foods if you even wanted to explore the ethnic minorities, they're not so far away so in one location you have such an overflowing abundance of variety. Kerry Newsome: Yes and I think it's that variety in the mix with culture & food you know. Lots of venues for every budget, all of that kind of thing that would make it extremely attracted. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Absolutely, and activities as well, they are also plentiful here. There is something for everyone. There is something for the kids’ right up to grandma who you may have asked to join in the destination. Kerry Newsome: You know some people may think it's a bit strange to be talking about weddings, you know we're in the midst of COVID but you know weddings get planned well in advance. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Absolutely, I mean we have to two types of couples. We have a couple who are fairly spontaneous who are traveling through. Sometimes, they go...You know it's amazing you know we got engaged in Ho Chi Minh City. We're going to get married in Hoi An. We do get that quite often for those who want to in a loop in terms of the grand celebration, and the celebration with family and friends. In six to nine months tends to be the general kind of planning time, but people like to give the family and friends about twelve months notice, particularly if they've got to book a vacation at work. They need to plan their travels because they are waiting for many people, so you know I'm in Vietnam, it's not just the wedding, there's a whole travel experience that often leads to getting into the wedding point. People do like to give family and friends about twelve months. Kerry Newsome: We cannot wait. I bet. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Yes, and that's great too. Kerry Newsome: But I think if we're talking about some of the aspects that COVID has affected wedding plans.For some people they've got really dashed. You know like their weddings kind of got put on hold, or are canceled outright, or you know they are looking for another way to celebrate, and to get together and maybe in smaller numbers than previously considered. I would think that Vietnam as a wedding destination would definitely hit the note there for people. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Definitely, and I think you know we got a lot of people who are coming from various points across the globe. So to exactly come to the middle ( region of the globe) attention is appealing here, and to have a dedicated amount of time with family and friends. It’s a busy life you often don’t get time like this. So we are finding that numbers seem to be between twenty to forty, maybe fifty to sixty, which is still relatively small for some weddings, but we have you know couples who are coming;- the groom is coming from the U. K; and the bride from Australia for example, so people need to trave,l so why not make an experience out of it. That's why Hoi An is so appealing and Vietnam in general. If people never travel to Asia I think it's a beautiful intro into the S.E Asia region. Kerry Newsome: And I know when we got together to prepare for this. We kind of talked about and had bit of a giggle about the percentage of people that actually will attend? Because you know I thought that was something to think about. Because you know, if I'm going to invite people to an overseas destination, you know, will people come? I'm keen to get your answer for everyone on that one. Nadine Zeigeldorf: It's definitely a thought. The destination wedding side of things is still new to people. I know having a destination wedding is a big deal, because we think people won’t travel, and I always caution people and say please be careful, because from my experience. YES, they will. You will get ninety, ninety five percent of your invited guests will say yes, so do be aware. It’s because Vietnam i s still intriguing to so many people. People want to travel to Vietnam and if you've got a beautiful event like a wedding to travel for, why not. That's the perfect excuse to book that ticket and plan a trip that you've been dreaming off. And then of course you have the culmination of this beautiful love setting you know here in magic Hoi An. But I think I told you about the story where a lovely couple, who were based in Hong Kong. She was from Australia, he was from the U. S. She said I'm inviting two hundred people. I aid, I think about seventy to eighty will come so be careful. I gave them my standard warning and then, sure enough we passed the ninety percent mark quite quickly,and I got a message from her everyday. I don’t believe that four more people has confirmed and it was like this every day. She invited two hundred people and one hundred and ninety nine came. Kerry Newsome: A hundred ninety-nine out of two hundred people came. WOW! Nadine Zeigeldorf: You know I do tell that story very often as my bench mark because it is true. Vietnam is just magic. Kerry Newsome: I don’t think any of us need an excuse to go to Vietnam. But it is a great excuse to add to the process of making that booking, and just to get, you know all of the extras and as you say. The extra time with people, that you don’t see that often. A wedding normally finishes at the end of the event, and that's the norm for a lot of people. This is a chance to sort of hang around and experience the culture. I think it's a great idea. I wish I had thought about it. So now I'm going to get you to give us some ideas. What is a winning program? You kind of mentioned that it has some different elements and some different aspects in combination. Talk us through a wedding program typical or unusual. Nadine Zeigeldorf: When you see the experience beyond the wedding itself. When we first meet our couples, we talk about the importance of it, and the importance that people traveling all over the world potentially, to come and be with them as a couple but also experience this amazing region. We talk about that in the terms of a wedding week, because often that's what we do, we are planning multiple experiences for five to seven days. Because you want to WOW people. Well, with the experienced people, they are sometimes traveling a long way to see you. So I say there's just so much more that we can fit in, to make this experience a lifetime memory beyond the wedding day. Kerry Newsome: Some examples, like I think you mentioned a “welcome event”. Can you talk to people about some of those and some other aspects. I mean I've seen some funny things in places around Vietnam wedding. Nadine Zeigeldorf: I was thinking about who and which couple should I share some weddings experiences with, and the one that came to mind was Jaden Justin she's from the UK, he's from Australia so again that's classic situation, that we find a lot in our couples that someone needs to travel. With these guys they were both living in Australia, and family have met, and a lot of the friends in fact hadn't met so we discussed starting the week off with a bang. So yes okay welcome events of some sort is definitely something we recommend, but because many of these people had met I wanted to do something that would brake the ice a little bit, so we arranged a basketball competition. So if you've been to Vietnam you'll be very familiar with the circular boats on the river. They're not that easy to make to go straight in one line. Kerry Newsome: They are not very steady. Nadine Zeigeldorf : So we randomly call people from different sides of the globe, and different family members, and put them in a situation that forced them to engage, interact, have fun and just have something to talk about. So not everybody goes off with the madness like that, but there are so many fabulous experiences to have here in terms of food and culture and activities. So definitely a welcome event is a sure thing, whether it is a sunset barbecue or one night with a band on the beach. Something in the ancient town is always something of interest; definitely the number one welcome event. Get everyone together to celebrate this beautiful tropical environment, that they've all landed in. And then let me break it down to two smaller groups traditionally. Sometimes we find that “out of the box” experience but it doesn't have to be that way. Sometimes, the bride wants to go off and do one thing, and the groom could do another and people can join them in those experiences. Either way. But we find it gives people a little bit more of an intimate experience. Again, it’s the sun & fun stuff. Hoi An you know, it goes “off” and great photo shots, pampering, some massaging, cocktail parties, cooking classes and those kinds of things. The boys often want to be a little bit more adventurous and they might end up heading down to the big city in Danang. For those that have already met on the first night, it's just a lovely follow on from that. We also definitely encourage families to come to give family time and make it a bit of a priority. Maybe a couple of nights before the wedding, so that there was a bit more of an intimate experience because the day can be so busy. There’s also tailoring which is also a fun experience that we can help with. Kerry Newsome: I think the tailoring is an important one to mention. Because I've seen the whole wedding party, come and get all of their dresses, and the guys get the gear and that's part of the week before. It’s all part of the experience Nadine Zeigeldorf: Yes, absolutely in particular because the girls and the boys may notice each other and that’s such a fun experience. We send the boys off with a beer in hand to the tailor. I'm surprised actually when they come out looking absolutely fabulous, but they've also had a brilliant time together doing that. That's kind of outside the norm of choosing your wedding attire that an experience here in the town. Over five hundred tailors, is always fun and of course for the girls is something really special as well. It's a special time for the girls to be together, because often a couple haven't had time to be with their friends and not seen their family for such a long time. Kerry Newsome: And sometimes I think the people getting that preparation together for weddings can be very stressful. And can be expensive for many of us. And to be able to do that in Vietnam as all part of that wedding week, and do it in a fun environment, do it in a way that is probably going to cost you a bit less is great. The girls get to maybe engage in the design a little bit. Because they can. Because they are all standing next to each other, and looking at each other and making sure the design is the way that the bride wants it to be. Or he's happy to change it and the same for the guys. Sending guys off to get their suits, like normally in western society that's a real bug bare The guys normally wouldn’t be doing that with a beer in hand. And our lovely Vietnamese tailors. Fussing over them and you know getting them to choose fabrics and things like that. I'm sure they have a real wowser of a time. Nadine Zeigeldorf: They do absolutely love it. You can kind of hear them grumbling about it but for real they have to go to the tailors but guarantee they have a laugh. And they all would be fabulous on the day. They can go out casually, whether they are in tailored shorts and nice shirts if the wedding is a little bit more casual, or the guys are in a three-piece suits. Either way they just end up looking fabulous. Kerry Newsome: And you've got some great photographers in the regions, as well now to be able to take special photos of the event. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Absolutely.. Yes, definitely lots of young emerging Vietnamese photographers, who are incredibly talented. Who have learned the art of telling a wedding story, photographing your wedding in more documentary styles? And you've got the stories, the journey of the day or the week. If you're going to engage with the photographers, you need a little bit longer. But, yes definitely, we've also got some great western photographers in the region. Some people do like to bring their photographers from abroad, and that's absolutely okay too. Whatever, it's your wedding in the end, and your memories. Kerry Newsome: Absolutely, one other aspect of weddings that I learnt after our first conversation, was the different styles of weddings that you organize and get involved with. And one of those, I thought was quite interesting, was where a Vietnamese is possibly living abroad or studying abroad, or have lived away from Vietnam and their family for a long time and married a foreign possibly. And, they want to come back and connect with their cultural background and get married in a traditional way. Maybe talk to us about some of the different types of weddings that you get involved with. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Yes of course, we still have our classic destination wedding where people want to leave the shores of the country and have a very special experience. That we find is the becoming less and less popular. What we find more is couples are coming from different parts of the globe and very often we have a situation where we’re contacted by a couple, one or both have inherited heritage. They may have been born here, and have grown up or lived abroad or they were born in Australia or the U.S. or the UK. Wherever it might be, and they want to come back and they want to honor the heritage and we help to facilitate a blended experience. We help them learn about or relearn about the wedding culture. And the wedding customs here and integrate that into the wedding experience, and the white wedding perhaps at the end. Trying to find something, that is a mix, in a blended way to showcase who they are. All couples are different and we work to find the wedding creation that's right for them. The cultures and customs in Vietnam are incredibly beautiful, and very often the bride of the groom wants to share that with the other half family and friends. You're blending families, you're blending customs and culture. It’s a really magic way to do it here. Kerry Newsome: Yes, and I agree and I think that reconnection, all that ability to be back in the country of your origin and express your love for your partner, in that environment and taking that aspect, must be just so rich in feelings and emotion for everybody attending. Because as you say everyone is experiencing it in a different way, but I like that. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Weddings are filled with love any way. But when you’re sharing the more personal side of the bride or the groom in terms of what the family heritage is, it becomes incredibly personal and they're also very beautiful. Ceremonies here like the traditional tea ceremony, where the young couples ask for their blessing from their family members. By offering tea and in return the parents will offer their blessing. Yes, you can marry. But also give guidance and support on how to have a healthy long loving marriage. A beautiful intimate thing like that also involves both sides, and those moments are very special. And maybe a couple still wants to have the white wedding, so that's absolutely okay too. You can do the ceremony separate, we can integrate them together. And of course, showcasing you know the great food of Vietnam; there is just so much here for our couples to like and to share. Kerry Newsome: Yes, absolutely. And we talked about that reconnect, but we also talked about others, like in a Renewal of vows,Second weddings, and then you made a prediction about some people. All this seems to be trending. Post COVID share with us about some trends. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Look, like you mentioned earlier. I think things are going to be smaller. I think, a little bit more intimate. We have been separated, social distance through this experience of COVID. I think these steps of coming back together to celebrate things like weddings might be tentative. They might be smaller and a little bit more cautious. I think we're going to find the experience is going to be incredibly intimate and incredibly emotional. But I also feel post Covid people will potentially be faced with economic situations. As we know weddings are not a cheap endeavor to undertake, so I think you know WOW Vietnam is romantic, it's beautiful, so I think people are going to do that “sneak off” or Elope and I think they're going to commit. Kerry Newsome: Okay I'm going to put that on there !! Nadine Zeigeldorf: So people will just come and say “we've got married”. Kerry Newsome: And you know we touched budget. We touch on the costs in regards to our weddings. I mean how long is a piece of string is as far as cost is concerned. But would you say that the feedback from your plans, weddings are good value in Vietnam? Nadine Zeigeldorf: I would definitely say so. I mean of course, you can go with the full “bells and whistles” here, with five-star resorts and your budget you will pay the same as in the west. But if you choose to have unique experiences. We find that the budget extends. If for example in the west, the couple are unable to cover the cost of the welcome dinner. In Vietnam you will be able to amongst other smaller events. Kerry Newsome: Yes. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Because a restaurant can feed sixty to eighty people actually doesn't end up costing that much money. When you are thinking of the cost of our local beer and local food, it depends on the experience. We work with each couple. What's your budget, what's important over the wedding week and then identify how to create the best experience for them. You know within the budget, also depends on how many people they want to come. And we have tricks that we know even at the five-star resorts. We can help save a little bit of money, that could potentially be used somewhere else. I'm so passionate about Vietnam and passionate about what I do. That I want people to have an incredible experience, the whole time that they are here. Working out with the couples, to make that happen within their budget is what I do. Kerry Newsome: So, just to finish up so we can wrap up. I mean from my start to finish do you have a recommended time that you would suggest that people consider? What is the best plan re getting leave approved from whoever they are working for? What time are you suggesting ….a week? Nadine Zeigeldorf: Yes, and absolutely. At least at least five days you know within the area that you've chosen for the wedding. And then of course you know like we discussed several times; how fabulous Vietnam is and the journey that people take to and from that wedding destination. If the wedding in central Vietnam, people my fly north to experience Ha Long Bay as part of their time in Vietnam, or in the south go to the Mekong Delta. And all the other fabulous things along the way here. So often it's not just the five-day wedding week experience here.There's a little bit more that they will like to take on so you know. Yes, we do we listen to people who are here for five days and then we have people who are here the entire month soaking up the sun in Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: And let's just finish then on maybe be your favorite honeymoon options just sorry we can wrap it up. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Well, I think we are seeing entire families tag along on the honeymoon. The bride says yes, we're going to Ha Long Bay. We want to go there, so they end up with the boat load of people on Ha Long Bay, and for those looking for that beautiful kind of hidden and honeymoon in private experience. Vietnam has amazing resorts here in central Vietnam, and all across Vietnam. One place, doesn't just have to be the sole destination. You know we've got such incredible network to jump in and out of here. Kerry Newsome: And some very beautiful neighbors. Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar. Nadine Zeigeldorf: Exactly, so many great places. Vietnam has it. You really need to plan time to enjoy it. Kerry Newsome: Well not that I ever want to get married again but I...Well I might do a vows renewal. ha!! Thank you very much for being on the show. Nadine Zeigeldorf: My pleasure.

14e1533c-3922-4356-b2d5-5f8c211cf3bbLanguage tips in Vietnam week 1 - "greetings" What About Vietnam - Series 3 - 19 Learn “greetings” in Vietnamese language Kerry Newsome: 00:01 Xin Chào and welcome to “What About Vietnam !”. My guest today is Hà, a Vietnamese girl, who I saw a few years ago on a video she did on, "How to pronounce certain Vietnamese words". It was hilarious. And she did such a great job, I really had to try and find her and track her down. She did it for a website called "Hội An Now " (https://hoiannow.com ), which is absolutely a really fab place for you to check out if you want to know everything about Hội An. And she was so good in the video, I thought now, “How can I best do this and use the podcast, being audio to make it consumable for people?” 00:45 I don't want it to be seen as a pure lesson because we don't cover every word. And we don't do it with an academic headset. But what I've tried to do with Hà in these episodes, which are kind of like mini lessons, is to try and present situations that you'll find yourself in, as a traveler. And these are just some of the most common words or the most words I found myself using or wanting to use. And it would have been handy to know. And because the pronunciation and the tone affect the language so consistently, you really, you really do need a Vietnamese to go through it with you a couple of times, so that you get the hang of it, you'll soon find out my Vietnamese is awful. So, I am definitely the guinea pig for the show. 01:43 I tracked her down, it was great to do so. She's actually living in France at the moment. And she's working there for a UK company doing English Vietnamese interpretation. So, she's really got a very influential job, she really knows her stuff. And I think you're going to love her on the show. The chance to use Vietnamese language comes up very quickly on your arrival into Vietnam, which, as I said, is why we've kind of broken it down into three scenarios. I'll warn you out. Now, Vietnamese is one of the hardest languages in the world. So don't feel like you're strange or inadequate because you can't get the hang of it, welcome to my world. 02:30 The first setting or environment is for "Greetings". So, these are the words that are going to help you engage with the locals. And just offer that politeness. So, they're like: · Hello. · Please. · Thank you and a few other extras. So, I hope you love these sessions. I certainly enjoyed doing them with her and trying to get things right. I'm definitely going to go back to myself for practice when I get back to Vietnam later this year. So please welcome Hà to the program. Hà: 03:03 Very happy to be here on this show. And I hope we have a good time together. Kerry Newsome: 03:09 I'm sure we will. Now, I'm going to admit something to you. And I'm kind of ashamed of it, in the sense that I've been traveling back and forth to Vietnam for about 14 years. And my repertoire of Vietnamese words and sentences is very low, I almost feel embarrassed every time I say something because I know it's going to be wrong, and I can't get that tone and all that. So, you're going to have to use me as the guinea pig and everyone listening, I'm sorry, but I make the excellent guinea pig because this is learning for me, as well. 03:50 I'm hoping that you're going to use this as a resource when you do travel to Vietnam, because when you arrive in Vietnam, everything kind of happens very quickly. You're at the airport, you're getting into a taxi, you are getting into a hotel, and just trying to find those words that are make a nice greeting, make a nice welcome and Vietnamese people that you're going to interact with, make them feel like you're glad to be there. And you've taken a little bit of time and effort to understand their language. And it works very well when you can use Vietnamese words. Would you say I'm right? Hà: 04:31 Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. When you arrive in the country, if you speak a little bit the language, not even Vietnam, everywhere. In China in Korea, if you speak a little bit of the language, it could be easier to interact and then to just have the feeling about the country and yeah, I think you're absolutely right. But Vietnamese is a hard language. So, I understand. Kerry Newsome: 04:56 I'm really grateful you said that. Okay, so we decided that we would try and break it down into scenes or scenarios. And so, we decided we'd start with just general conversational. So, if I was to say "Hello", what would be the Vietnamese word for Hello. Hà: 05:20 The Vietnamese word for Hello would be "Xin Chào". Kerry Newsome: 05:25 Xin Chào. So, in the Episode Notes, I'm going to be able to put how that word is spelt, and then the phonetic sound of it. So, people don't worry that if you're going to try and keep up, you don't get to keep up because it's going to be all in the transcript. But just check me how I'm saying. So, Xin Chào? Hà: 05:48 You are actually making the Chào go up a little. So, you have to go down a little. It's actually Xin Chào. Kerry Newsome: 05:56 Xin Chào. Hà: 05:57 Yes. Yes. Kerry Newsome: 05:59 More down. Hà: 06:00 More down with Chào. Yeah. Kerry Newsome: 06:02 And when we see the symbols on the letters, that gives us an indication of whether it's down or up. Hà: 06:13 Yes, absolutely. Yes. It's very easy for us because obviously, it is our mother tongue. But for foreigners, especially the westerners, it's horrible for them to pronounce this, they cannot make it right, but it's cute. For me, it's cute, it is what it makes it cute. So, I think if you even try just a little bit, no need to be perfect. But when you speak Vietnamese, you give a little bit of effort in that. And I think it's cute, that's good enough. Kerry Newsome: 06:44 So, I think for me, Xin Chào, has been the most common word I've used everywhere. Hà: 06:52 Yes, yeah. Kerry Newsome: 06:53 It doesn't matter what scenario you're in, if you can say that people will at least nod to you, like, that is a greeting. That is Hello. That's Hi. I do also understand we won't go into it today. But there is a way of saying hello. From a relational standpoint, so that you go, you can add to that, so that the younger than you or they are older than you. They are female. They are a male. Now that's where it got really crazy for me, well, I just tried to keep it at Xin Chào. Hà: 07:32 Xin Chào. Kerry Newsome: 07:34 Xin Chào, see I'm getting better already? [laughter] No, no, this is your job. This is why you're here. Definitely why you're here. So, I think you can also just correct me if I'm wrong. You can say Chào, just Chào. Hà: 07:52 Yeah. Kerry Newsome: 07:53 Also, on its own. Hà: 07:54 Yeah, on its own. Yeah, we can just say, Chào. Very friendly. Kerry Newsome: 08:00 Friendly way. Hà: 08:01 Yeah. Friendly way. Kerry Newsome: 08:02 Yeah. All right. So, then the next word I'd like to do is "Please." Hà: 08:08 Okay, so "Please", is “Làm ơn". Làm ơn. Kerry Newsome: 08:14 Làm ơn. Hà: 08:18 Yes. So Làm is actually a down tone and ơn is a neutral tone. Kerry Newsome: 08:24 Right. Okay, that's good. Now, the next most important word for me is "Thank You". Now. I say, "Cảm ơn" Hà: 08:36 Yeah. We can get that. That means Cảm ơn. Kerry Newsome: 08:42 Cảm ơn. Hà: 08:45 Cảm ơn. Kerry Newsome: 08:46 Cảm ơn. Hà: 08:49 Yes. I think Cảm ơn is very difficult for you to pronounce because the word Cảm is the tone is a little bit- how to say it, waving. So, we actually have to say Cảm. Kerry Newsome: 09:06 Cảm. Hà: 09:09 Cảm ơn. Kerry Newsome: 09:09 Cảm ơn. Hà: 09:10 Yes. Kerry Newsome: 09:11 I don't separate them well, but I know what you mean. Now, that's good. So, the next two words, which I think are important, especially when you're going to be moving around and things like that is, "Yes". What is the word for "Yes"? Hà: 09:30 Well, 'yes'. It's a very simple word to say yes. But in different situation. You have another different way. How to say yes. So, let's say yes, as in when someone asks you something, and you say yes. You say, "đá". Kerry Newsome: 09:51 Đá. Hà: 09:51 Đá. D, A, Đá, with a very low tone, and this is very polite. And you usually say to older people, yes. And then there is another way, you can use it with friends or in the restaurant or some places that you are customer or something you can say, "Có", which is C O, and the up tone. Kerry Newsome: 10:22 Right? So, Có? Hà: 10:25 Có. Kerry Newsome: 10:25 So, how would I decide which one to use? Say, you arrive at the hotel, the bus is emptying off your luggage? They point to that luggage, and they say something about, "Is this your luggage?" Would you say Đá? Hà: 10:25 You can say Đá, but this is I just have a feeling, "Oh my God, I'm very bad in my own language. I don't know how to explain it." In your scenario, this specific scenario, what would you say in that situation? You can say another word, which also means Yes. You can say: "Đúng". No. Which means, "Yes, that's right." Đúng. Kerry Newsome: 11:09 Đúng. Hà: 11:09 Which is Đúng. You're trying to make it D, U, N, G. Kerry Newsome: 11:15 Right. Which is counter intuitive because it sounds like 'don't' instead. Hà: 11:25 Yeah. So, you can say Đá, you can say Đá. Kerry Newsome: 11:28 Just say Đá. Okay. That is probably what I've been doing up to now? What about "no"? Hà: 11:36 'No' is very easy. You just have to say "Không". Kerry Newsome: 11:42 Không. Hà: 11:45 Không. Hà: 11:46 Yes. Kerry Newsome: 11:46 Okay, great. So now, I've come into the hotel, say for example, and say, the manager is there, or the staff are there. And you want to say, "My name is Kerry". How do I say that? So, if I want to say, "My name is Kerry", like sometimes the staff- I might go into a hotel, and I'm signing the paperwork, they might say, "How are you?" And I'll just nod and say, "Good". And then they'll say, "My name is", say, "Rose, I will be looking after you." I want to be able to say, "My name is Kerry". Hà: 12:34 Oh, okay. Kerry Newsome: 12:34 "And I'm glad to be staying at this hotel." Just to be respectful and nice to people in their roles, etc. So, how would I say, "My name is Kerry”? Hà: 12:47 You can say, "Tên tôi là Kerry." Kerry Newsome: 12:51 Tên tôi là- "Tên tôi là Kerry." Hà: 12:56 "Tên tôi là Kerry." Kerry Newsome: 12:59 "Tên tôi là Kerry." Hà: 13:01 Yes. Very good. Yes. Which is, "My name is Kerry." Kerry Newsome: 13:05 Yeah. Okay. And then. Say, they didn't say their name. What happens if I want to say: "What is your name?" Hà: 13:16 You can ask them- you can say, "Bạn tên gì?" Bạn tên gì? Kerry Newsome: 13:25 Tên gì bạn? Hà: 13:27 Bạn tên gì? Kerry Newsome: 13:27 Tên gì bạn? Hà: 13:33 Not only Bạn, Tên gì, three words. Kerry Newsome: 13:37 Tên gì bạn? Hà: 13:40 No, Bạn tên gì? Kerry Newsome: 13:45 Tên gì bạn? Hà: 13:47 Oh, bạn is yours. Tên- Kerry Newsome: 13:54 Gì- Hà: 13:56 Yes. Right. Correct. So- Kerry Newsome: 13:57 What is yours- Hà: 13:59 What is your name? Yeah. Kerry Newsome: 14:02 So, what is the word for name? Hà: 14:03 Name is then Tên. Kerry Newsome: 14:07 So, everything is always back to front, isn't it? Hà: 14:10 Bạn tên gì? Kerry Newsome: 14:13 What is your name? Name is actually the last word in that sentence, where you put it at the beginning. Hà: 14:20 It is actually Bạn, Bạn is your, Tên is name, so it is in the middle name. Kerry Newsome: 14:27 Name, Your, What. Hà: 14:30 Yes. Your name what. Kerry Newsome: 14:33 Yeah. That's it. [laughter]. Now I know I'm totally confused and always have been. So okay, so let's just get it right. You say, it because I don't think I have a good pronunciation, but I want everyone that's listening to do a better job than me. Okay, go Hà? Hà: 14:53 It's "Bạn tên gì?" Kerry Newsome: 14:57 Okay, done. All right now I want to just two more and then we can finish off conversational. So, if I want to say goodbye, I finished at the hotel. I'm going home now, and I want to say goodbye to the staff. What is the word for "goodbye" or "see you soon"? Hà: 15:15 Do you want a simple way, or do you want a more correct way? Kerry Newsome: 15:20 I want the simple way I think. Hà: 15:22 Okay, the simple way you, you just say "Chào". Kerry Newsome: 15:25 Just say Chào? Okay. You better tell me the complex way just so I know. Hà: 15:32 The complex way is "Tạm biệt". Kerry Newsome: 15:38 Tạm biệt. Hà: 15:40 Yes, yes, yes. Kerry Newsome: 15:41 Tạm biệt. Hà: 15:42 Yes, Tạm biệt. Kerry Newsome: 15:45 Okay, so that's great. So, I think we now move on to another scenario. English Vietnamese Phonetic Hello Xin Chào Sinchow Please Làm ơn Lam urn Thank You Cảm ơn Cam urn Yes (1) Đá. Ya Yes (2) Có Caw Yes (3) Đúng Du’n No Không Khung My name is.... Tên tôi là... Ten to-ee la... What is your name? Bạn tên gì? Baan ten zi? Name Tên Ten Yours Bạn Baan Goodbye (1) Chào Chow Goodbye (2) Tạm biệt. Taam bi-et