f633923d-dcb9-4cc1-b5e2-02708a05122dTam Ky and Tam Thanh beach - not on the regular tourist track yet! Tam Ky and Tam Thanh Beach - Not on the regular tourist track Episode 4 Tam Ky and Tam Thanh Beach - Not on the regular tourist track 00:00 / 23:23 Vietnam has so much to offer the tourist. You have all heard this said before! However, not all of its lively cities, or tranquil beaches, are played out in mainstream media or travel guides. Tam Ky is the capital of Quang Nam ( The same province Hoi An is located in) and Tam Thanh Beach are two of those places the tourist's HAVEN'T overrun or for that matter know much about. Meet Sander Seymour, my guest, today on the program. A fun American guy who came to Vietnam over 4 years ago, and try as he did, couldn't leave, He literally fell in love. With Vietnam and a lovely local girl from Tam Ky. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

420eb988-0e37-4d4d-b111-0c95c2f050f7Fast becoming a major draw card for adventure seekers. Vietnam's Phong Nha Caves - in depth Episode 22 S3-22 Phong Nha Caves in depth 00:00 / 58:17 Phong Nha as a location, is fast becoming the major draw card to Vietnam for adventure seekers. If its magical scenery and surprisingly clean and green flourishing forests you are seeking, then you will want to give some serious thought to Phong Nha caves. It has been said, passing through the different caves, that the stunning landscapes will make you believe the myths about fairies, and magical kingdoms, while the magnificent scenery will continue to enchant you. And let's not forget the enormity of some of them. Some are big enough to fit skyscrapers in. My guest on the show, is Howard Limbert. Howard has been caving for 32 years and was part of the leadership team which discovered Son Doong, in 2009. Just in case you didn't know, this cave is now touted as the largest cave on the planet. I was fortunate to catch up with Howard and he has a great way of describing the caves in such a way that you feel you are already there. OR, it is something you'd love to experience. There are literally hundreds of caves and a tour variety for all types of explorers. This show covers the main Oxalis run tours, that operate over 1,2,3 and 4 days. It covers EVERYTHING you need to know to make a smart choice for you and your group. Photos by OxalisAdventures.com. Click on the link to the right to see the Oxalis video. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S4-01 Art in Vietnam Art in Vietnam - story telling at its best Episode 1 S4-01 Art in Vietnam 00:00 / 46:18 Art in Vietnam is everywhere. Sometimes it’s hard to actually know what you are looking at. As a tourist busy trying to cram so much in to a stay in Vietnam, the artist’s true technique or storytelling, is often lost on us. Art takes many forms in Vietnam, as in Lacquerware, paintings, silk, lanterns, pottery, fashion, homewares, and as you will learn in this show, there is a difference between an “Artist” and a Craftsman, who may produce the same style or product many times, yet it takes true skill to do this. We discuss the differences. And then of course how do you know what’s real or fake? Believe it, or not. Not everything is a copy, or fake. With the advantage of my talented artist Bridget March, we are going to take it back 100 years and really talk about how Vietnam has developed in the art world. Bridget is a brilliant story teller. An artist herself of considerable note. She has published 3 books about Hoi An, Sapa and Saigon and has had 7 solo exhibitions of her paintings and drawings in Vietnam galleries and at International hotels. She is also well recognised as the curator for the wonderful art gallery space at the Anantara Hoi An Resort. She has her own delightful gallery located in Hoi An – See our special offer coming soon. For her list of favourite galleries – see the transcript for links. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

878767d7-cade-4a2f-931a-1b2265549a6bWe share with you some of the history of Hoi An. What About Vietnam - Series 2 -1 Hoi An - Taking a step back in time Kerry Newsome: Xin Chao and hello everyone welcome to What about Vietnam, the traveler experience series, this is going to be the series where we get to talk to previous travelers to Vietnam. And some of those have actually decided to make Vietnam their home. Look, there's so much to cover in Vietnam, and I thought, what better way to do it than to do it through the ears and eyes and the voices of previous travelers. Those people who have decided to venture to Vietnam and have had a wonderful time and want to share their tips and hints and insights into this country today, we're going to talk about a place in Vietnam, which I call my second home. When I go to Vietnam, I tend to always base myself in this place. And this city is called Hoi An. Hoi An is based in the central part of Vietnam. So, pretty much it's about 25 minutes from the Da Nang Airport. It gives me the luxury then of being able to go North or South as I play. So, it's a great location. It's a very easy, comfortable style place with access to the old town and then access to the beach. And it's just, delightful, not too many motorbikes, which makes it even better. I decided to kick it off with Hoi An because it comes up so many times when I talk to travelers as their favorite place, as it is the most popular, and always seems to appear on any Vietnam tour that you would look at. So, today I'd like you to welcome Paul Simpson to the program. Paul went to Vietnam originally, I think in about 2012 but decided to make it his home, about three years ago, he's General Manager for a hotel within the little Hoi An hotel group in Hoi An, they have about five hotels. I met Paul about three years ago, he's a very well-traveled person and he just fell in love with Vietnam a bit like me and he also knows I love Hoi An. So, we're sort of on the same page as far as the city is concerned, but Paul is going to share with you some of the history, some of what makes Hoi An almost let you take a step back in time. It's a very old city, it dates back to the 16th century in some areas and on those streets. And when you see those shop house doors, if only those doors could talk. So, please welcome Paul Simpson to the show. I'm sure you're going to learn a lot more about Hoi An through his experience. Paul Simpson: The old town was the trading port for the Champa people, which is a regional little medieval kingdom set up at the My Son temple ruins, which was the religious political and cultural capital of this little area. Hoi An was the dynamic engine, the economic drive for that because it was situated on the river. Sailing ships could come in, get fresh water, make an easier approach, trade with the locals for textiles, ceramics, get fresh water and foods. It was an important place and if you look at the map of Southeast Asia, it's all centrally located. The Royal family that ran all this from the My Son temple ruins k died out, but all of the traditional venues that kept their little kingdom going, kept going in their traditional sense; silk, ceramics, fishing and farming. That was everything that drove Hoi An and to their credit people are creatures of habit and change doesn't always come easy. They still do so many of those things today, the same way so, that it has made Hoi An a very unique step back in time where ceramics, silk, farming, and fishing are all done the same way. And that has created a very wonderful tourism draw. You can come here and see how those things are done in a beautiful, charming place, similar to and as visually pleasing, like Portofino on the Italy or the Columbia zoo. And so, all of these things you can do in Hoi An, and you can spend a month here. It's picturesque, so, if you're a photography buff, you can come and see all the places and discover new ones, where to take photos different times a day, different lighting, kind of like Monet. You can come to Hoi An and ride in a basket boat. They make baskets, giant baskets and turn them into boats. Very creative use of bamboo reeds and palm fronds. You can go to the Tra Que village to learn about local farming techniques and how they still do things by hand. And the foods that you eat in the local restaurants and in your hotels are all farmed here. It's wonderful, very fresh. You're eating literally from farm to table. You can see how they make silk, where the industry really hasn't changed in the last 500 years. The only thing that's changed is they've mechanized it, but you can still see them using a loom, handweaving things, and they're for sale. They're still here. You can, you can learn that pottery, the pottery village here still uses a giant earthen oven. They feed it full of wood and charcoal to heat it up. Then they hand-make all of the ceramics and put it in using what looks like a pizza. What do they call it? Pizza wheel, they put it in using a pizza wheel, and a few hours later, they take it out and it's ceramic. Hoi An was known for its lanterns. Everyone in Southeast Asia going back four or five, 600 years, they knew about the silk lanterns hanging in the streets of Hoi An. And they're beautiful, they're decorative, they're everywhere. Anyone who comes to Hoi An takes a silk lantern home. You can learn to make them hang them in your house, they're beautiful softly lit. So, you can come to Hoi An, and get the best of pretty much all vacations, you can get, all of those. You can go golfing at one of four premier golf courses. You can take cooking classes and learn how to cook amazing Vietnamese cuisine, the fusion of flavors. You can come to Hoi An and go to the beach, we have beautiful beaches here. You can enjoy strolling through the old town and see the history. You're walking down a street that was laid out 500 years ago. The houses really haven't changed, it is an earthen ceramic structure made with ceramic bricks. And hand-carved and hand turned wood accents on the doors. The doors aren't really doors, they're wood slats that they stack up on top of each other. They're still using those, but windows are the same, they have shutters, there's no glass, they're all open. This little town is a United Nations world heritage site because they haven't changed it, they haven't messed it up. Instead of they've preserved it for centuries. Come and explore it, is what I say! Kerry Newsome: Thank you, Paul, for your wonderful insights into this beautiful city I can't wait to get back. I hope you enjoyed listening to Paul today as he talked about Hoi An and its many offerings to the tourist. It was nice to hear him talk about the historical side of Hoi An and its background to many activities that still go on. Sometimes it's very easy to take that all for granted, but it is a big part of what makes Hoi An unique. Hoi An is undoubtedly one of the most comfortable cities in Vietnam to visit. And because it is a hot spot for tourists, we will hear more about it from all the travelers in future episodes. So, stay tuned, please get your free subscription as then you get notified of new episodes as they come up, please review, and share with potential travelers. Thank you for listening and until next time stay safe everyone.

3da374fb-b972-4815-9137-a9ede5e9a1dcExpat guides us through the top 10 must do things in Hoi An. Top 10 must dos in Hoi An - an ex-pats guide Episode 7 Top 10 must dos in Hoi An - an ex-pats guide 00:00 / 41:42 Hoi An hits your visitor radar! Again. You have limited time, and you want to know what are the best things to see and do in Hoi An? Who do you trust to give you the best advice? Give me a local anytime? I love to get the unfabricated, hidden gems, and the inside story from a local. A local Expat is even better, as most likely they have similar tastes, and standards, maybe even expectations; and there isn't the language or translation barrier to overcome. Today's episode is a gift. I guarantee you, you will be transported by Sharon Sweeney to those Top 10 things to enjoy in Hoi An, over and over again in your mind. Even before you set foot in Vietnam. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S4-15 Travelling as a solo woman What makes solo female travellers love Vietnam Episode 15 S4-15 Travelling as a solo woman 00:00 / 45:08 There are many reasons why Vietnam is a stand out favourite destination amongst female solo travellers. One of the dominant reasons is safety. The other reasons we explore more deeply in the show as they stem from the Vietnamese people themselves, and how they recognise women empowerment in their own culture. I hope my male guests will forgive us for making this show about the female solo traveller. You needn’t worry, I have a male solo traveller show on the drawing board featuring bike riding, golf, sports, adventure and lots of other cool stuff. So, stay tuned. However, the aim of this show is to allay any fears a female may have about taking a solo trip to Vietnam. You are going to hear from both a westerner as in myself and a Vietnamese hospitality professional living in Saigon. My lovely guest is Camellia Dinh. With over 10 years of experience working in the hospitality industry for some of the world’s most prestigious hotel brands including Park Hyatt, Sofitel, and the M-Gallery Collection, Camellia has a wealth of experiences and local knowledge to share. Currently she holds the position as Director of Sales at Fusion Original Saigon Centre Camellia tells us it is not always convenient to travel with friends or family as matching up schedules with study and jobs makes it almost impossible. She says that she started travelling alone as young as 13, and over time has come to really enjoy her trips alone, and it has afforded her some fun experiences. That’s not to say she doesn’t love travelling with friends and family when she can. Together we’d like to share our own personal experiences to ensure women considering doing this, can do so with confidence. Especially if the female traveller loves food, culture, scenery, shopping, pampering, wellness, adventure and making new friends along the way. The doors for a “female solo traveller” are about to open, and Vietnam is waiting to greet you with open arms. You can find more about Camellia Dinh here - https://about.me/camellia_dinh Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

dd9c254b-bab3-4e64-b3ce-72319edc2c2cThe Alba Wellness Resort - a great destination Vietnam - Your next Wellness destination Episode 23 S3-23 Your next wellness destination 00:00 / 40:46 Vietnam in the past 2 years of lockdown has really seen an opportunity to develop itself as a “Wellness destination”. The country not only offers sheer beauty, open spaces to explore and discover, hot springs, culture, over 3,000 kms of coastline, quality food and wellness practices such as meditation and yoga are becoming easily accessible in properties and locations around Vietnam. Today we talk about one of these Wellness retreat properties in detail. This will give you one true example as a point of reference. Plus, you will hear a little bit about the Imperial city of Hue. Hylton Lipkin is my guest today and is one of the champions influencing the change towards wellness and sustainable tourism in Vietnam. He is the GM of the Alba Wellness Resort, located just outside of Hue in Central Vietnam. As an International Fitness Presenter, and Ambassador for the World Wellness Weekend in Vietnam he plays a key role on the world stage of growth in this sector in Vietnam, and fosters his other passion of Environmental Wellness. If it is a Wellness vacation you are looking for, you definitely should put Vietnam on your list to check out as the array of experiences are extensive and by world class standards good value for money. Lots of good advice in this episode. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

f984edd2-9297-48d7-bb3c-1b5898f9e2ddThe big Decision. A packaged tour or DIY The big decision. Packaged group tour or DIY Episode 8 S1-08 Join a packaged group tour or DIY 00:00 / 39:53 Let’s get real about travel planning to Vietnam. 
If you're heading to Vietnam, there’s one big decision you’ll need to make early on:
Should you join a packaged group tour… or plan your own trip?
Do you map it out yourself—or get expert help? This isn’t a simple yes-or-no answer. It’s one of the most personal choices you’ll make in your travel planning—and one that can completely shape how you experience Vietnam. In this episode, I’m pulling back the curtain on both options, sharing the honest pros and cons, and helping you figure out which style fits you best.
No fluff, no sales pitch—just personal and professional insights from years of experience as both a traveller and a travel advisor to Vietnam. Because I consider this decision one of the biggest you’ll make in setting the tone for your trip, I break down these key elements: • The structure and convenience of group tours—and when they shine • The freedom and deeper connection that individually planned travel can offer • Why group tours can sometimes feel like a blur of bucket-list stops • The trade-offs of a tightly scheduled itinerary versus one you design yourself (or with guidance) • Real talk: what people loved (and didn’t) about both styles If you follow this show, you’ll know from other episodes: the best trips happen when your travel style matches who you are.
Whether that’s with a group or through your own custom plan—choose what fits you. I truly believe that if you give Vietnam the thought it deserves, it will give you everything you’re looking for—and more. Link to Food and Textiles Sml Group tour spoken about on show - https://www.brunswickkitchen.com.au/food-and-fabric-tours-vietnam-2025-2026 Head to our Travel services page to secure a Trip Plan tailored to you - https://www.whataboutvietnam.com/request-form Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

Vietnam travel podcasts featuring stories and interviews about the food of Vietnam Food in Vietnam S2-23 Vietnam Cooking Classes Go to Episode S2-19 Culture History through food Go to Episode S4-18 Luxury Brand Travel Experiences Go to Episode S4-06 Craft beers in Vietnam Go to Episode S4-13 Citizen 44 podswap Go to Episode S4-05 Nha Trang 10 best things Go to Episode S4-10 Hanoi A Foodies Paradise P2 Go to Episode S4-02 Fine Dining Vietnam Go to Episode S4-09 Hanoi A Foodies Paradise P1 Go to Episode S3-20 Learn "special dietary needs" Go to Episode S3-07 Positive tourism Go to Episode S3-13 Vietnamese Noodles Go to Episode S3-04 Dishes of Danang Go to Episode S3-11 Saigons Covid Recovery Outlook Go to Episode S3-08 Food Adventure Go to Episode S5-E25 Hoi An in Focus - ten things to love Go to Episode S5-E12 Out and About in Mui Ne - Laying bare the winds of change Go to Episode S5-E3 Heritage and Discovery in Saigon Mekong Delta & Dalat Go to Episode S5-E24 Ha Giang Insider tips for an Unforgettable Adventure Go to Episode S5-E10 Out and About in Saigon - the Uncut Edition Go to Episode S5-E1- Vietnam Visa Update and Land Travel Tips Go to Episode S5-E22 10 things travellers may not know about Vietnam Go to Episode S5-E7 - The Rise of Vietnam's Unique Dining Experiences Go to Episode S5-E18 Hanoi Below the Surface Go to Episode S5-E6 Explore the ‘Land of Lychees’ – Bac Giang Go to Episode

7a9010db-6536-4892-bc86-bd98867e1185Finding the best nightlife in buzzing Saigon What About Vietnam - Series 2 - 20 The inside "scoop" on the best nightlife in Saigon 2020/21 Kerry Newsome: [00:00:35] Xin Chao, and welcome to what about Vietnam, I'm calling today's episode an insider's view into the best nightlife in Saigon. And the reason I'm doing this is that I'm actually talking to an insider, a lovely girl who at the moment is living in Saigon, Vietnam, and managed to find herself there just prior to covid lockdowns. So we're kind of getting the best and the most up to date information about this city. And the focus of the program is definitely going to be on just all the great things to do after dark. I mean, let's face it, a lot's changed and I've wanted to make this show. All about Saigon and certainly about after dark and the best way I thought to do this was to let Selene showcase her knowledge. So you're not going to hear too much of me and me interjecting in any way. I just really wanted to, I guess, put a proper focus on all of the aspects of going out she was able to share in a way that you could relate to it, and I guess consume it in some ways. The pandemic did have an effect on Vietnam, but certainly not as drastic as in most Western countries. You'll hear from Selene how the Vietnamese and the local expat fraternity decided to make the most of it. You're going to hear about how locals love to get out and about at night in the cool air. What and where are the places to go that make this city get talked about so much as a fabulous nightspot? Is it safe? She put some really good insights for you as a traveler to think about that. Kerry Newsome: [00:02:41] I'm happy to report the answer is yes. So what kind of experiences can a new traveler expect to see in Saigon when they do eventually get to come back to Vietnam? I think Selene's insights into that will be interesting for you as well. She talks about cocktails and venues and experiences that will suit all types of travelers. So whether you're a family, whether you're a solo traveler, in particular, a female or whether you're a backpacker, there's just something for everyone. So as we sit here still in trip planning mode, you're going to be considering the cities that you first enter into the country. They are most likely going to be Hanoi, Saigon or possibly Danang. You may want to consider definitely including a couple of nights, especially after this episode, having a couple of nights in Saigon as part of your trip, because there is a lot to do in this city. But from my personal experience, my best experiences of Saigon have been when I've had the value of people's experience. And, I've done some research because it is a big city. It's got lots of districts and they each offer something unique. So to get about, when you sort of come into the country and like your head's doing a 360, I'm hoping this episode, along with some of the others in my series, maybe you might want to check out the shopping one and maybe the food ones that are coming on. I think if you have those in your backpack of things to do, it's going to make you enjoy the city so much more. Just a little bit about Selene. She's an Australian girl. [00:04:40] She's been traveling back and forth to Vietnam since 2005. She decided, as I said, to make Saigon her home. Just prior to Covid hitting. But,she's never looked back. You will hear how she absolutely loves Vietnam, Saigon and certainly the Vietnamese people. She comes from a very dynamic and diverse career across film and media to product manufacturing and brand development. She's made documentary films, worked as a digital producer and currently manages a small printing and sewing factory in Vietnam. She's the owner of two brands,CushionArt and XXXX Beautiful Homeware products you might like to check out on the links in the show. She's had a career in film and media that spans almost 20 years. She's an excellent speaker, which is another reason why I decided to make this episode really all about her and what she can share for you as the listener. She's an award-winning producer of short stories and documentaries such as The Demon Fault featured on SBS TV, plus Going, Going, Gone. And Every Story Has a Happy Ending, which has received over 300,000 views on YouTube. More recently, Selene has returned to her passion of writing stories for the screen and is developing a TV series. She's proficient in English, French, Vietnamese, and would you believe some Spanish. I know you won't be able to write notes fast enough to capture all the gems that Selene shares on the show. So please relax. I've included lots of the links here. I'll feature some on the episode notes and you'll also be able to find them on my website:- What about Vietnam.com I really want you to enjoy this program, nothing more from me, you're going to just have the voice of Selene as she shares her thoughts, her experiences and her passion for Vietnam. So without further ado, let's say hello to Selene in Saigon. Selene Alcock: [00:07:00] Vietnam is a sort of very bizarre case in the world, there aren't very many countries in the world that managed to avoid the Covid crisis, but Vietnam did that really successfully. Selene Alcock: [00:07:15] Obviously, there has been a flow-on effect of NO tourists, no international flights and the tourists being able to come into the country. One of the most noticeable changes of that is that the Ben Thanh Market, which was the big central tourist market, has now completely closed, which is quite sad to say, because a lot of people have lost their livelihoods from that. And that was also like a night market right next to that market, which is also closed. So definitely no international flights and no tourists has really affected the heart of Saigon and also the morale of the people, because there are a lot of hotels, restaurants, businesses that reliant on tourism and some other places have been lost. However, there has been a rise in the local and also expat international scene. So whilst the tourist nightlife scene has died somewhat, the local ex-pat international and also the local Vietnamese nightlife scene is okay. Actually the reason I have to say that right at the moment, there isn't much nightlife happening because we had another scare here. So we've gone back to people can go to events, but generally, it's limited to 30 people. So there's not a lot of raging nightlife right at the moment, but it was, most of 2020. They love to get out and that they're very proud of their food. And as you know, they have an extremely strong and vibrant street and street food culture. So a lot of Vietnamese nightlife actually centers around that. Selene Alcock: [00:09:05] So basically people will go out, they'll eat something on the street, they'll drink something on the street, or they'll go to kind of like a specialty eatery place. It could even be a coffee shop or a bubble tea place, which is pretty popular here. Generally, Vietnamese youth love to be out and about, hanging out of coffee shops and beauty shops so they're not drinking alcohol. They'll find another kind of venue. But a lot of these places, like a lot of Asia, are open till 10:00, 11:00 at night. So there's a vibrant nightlife that's not necessarily alcohol-related. Selene Alcock: [00:09:39] That's the first thing. And then all of a sudden, you get hungry at 11:00 or 12:00 or one 1:00 a.m. there's usually a place that you can go and eat to the side of the road. Selene Alcock: [00:09:49] So that's also part of the nightlife, I say, because people are generally out and about on the streets doing things, chatting, eating, drinking, etc. So the locals saying there are nightclubs as well for the Vietnamese people. We can go into that in a minute. But the locals say generally over nightlife in Saigon, Vietnam has always just been let's hang out on the streets and let's find something to eat and drink. Selene Alcock: [00:10:17] People love to get out and about at nighttime because it's cooler. So that's one of the reasons that many people in a hot tropical climate, especially when you would love to get out and about at night, and also the masters of napping, so they can have a nap the next day. Selene Alcock: [00:10:32] So it's all good to be out at night. It's not a big deal. Getting to bed, kids as well, at this hour. And it's like, oh, well, the Saturday whenever you have a nap later. So very relaxed. And I think that's what makes it fun to be out at night because nobody's stressing out about we've got to get home to get to bed at night. Selene Alcock: [00:10:55] Well, we'll sleep when we need sleep. It's a different mentality. I find that with a lot of Asian cultures and there's some obviously southern European that it's like, well, we're tied loosely. If that means we have to sleep in the middle of the day, that's fine. Selene Alcock: [00:11:11] Yeah, what's the deal so, Kerry, you know the ex-pat culture. Well, The ex-pat culture is also really as I mentioned, I first came to Vietnam and to Saigon in 2005. So there were very specific ex-pat cultures back then that tended to be, you could say, not so desirable, the older men sometimes. And then also backpackers and travelers, people may be working as English teachers.Now there is a variety of reasons why people are here now Saigon, 20 or so years prior to that and ongoing is a completely different place. For starters, it's an entrepreneur's hub, I think. Richard Branson said Saigon was one of the top five cities in the world. Now, something like that, as a sort of an entrepreneurial hub. So that is definitely changing the face of Saigon. In addition to that, we had covid-19. So you had a lot of people who say in the creative fields, music scenes, even English teachers who dropped into Saigon at the end of 2019 or early 2020, probably expecting only just a couple of weeks or a couple of months. And they now call Saigon their home. So we've had a really big shift. Selene Alcock: [00:12:31] Now the other thing is that when a bunch of foreigners get stuck in a place together, we won't say stop, but end up living. They start saying, oh well, I live here now. What can I do here? Selene Alcock: [00:12:43] I can't travel outside of the country. I'm an international DJ. Well, I can't go to the full moon party or IBiza or do any of those things anymore. Selene Alcock: [00:12:53] So I might as well make the most of the scene here. And that's exactly what happened. So there's the usual for example, if you're a tourist, you come to Vietnam. There's an assortment of nightlife experiences you can have. We can talk about that in a moment. But if you're a local living here, a Vietnamese local or an ex-pat local, there's a more diverse range of things you can do. Selene Alcock: [00:13:18] What's happened is that a lot of stuff has evolved over the past few years, but particularly I found in 2020. So we have a lot of kind of "alternative bars", underground bars, alternative scenes. Selene Alcock: [00:13:32] You have a rise in things like a "drag queen" scene also happening here from Gender Funk; they are very kind of proactive in that area. I've been to a few drag shows myself and they're fantastic. Selene Alcock: [00:13:47] The other thing I might just add in here, I mean, I'm going to do lots of the different scenes. Here is what I find interesting about Vietnam and Saigon. And I think this definitely feeds into the nightlife. Selene Alcock: [00:13:57] Is that because Vietnam went through a lot of conflict in its history, a lot of wars, a lot of foreign invaders, colonization, very overpowering, other countries trying to always overpower them from China, French, even Japanese, having sometimes grueling war with the US, et cetera, et cetera. You would think that they were very averse to foreigners. However, I find Vietnamese people to be. Selene Alcock: [00:14:29] Extremely open to foreign input, but at the same time extremely proud of their culture and who they are and also what they've achieved in terms of their independence and becoming a strong nation. Selene Alcock: [00:14:42] So I have very deep respect and love for the Vietnamese people. And I love them because it takes two to tango. You can't just be a foreigner. Rock up here and say, I want to do this, that and the other. You have to have the Vietnamese people saying, we want to do that with you. Selene Alcock: [00:14:57] And generally, you know, everybody has their obstacles. Generally, the Vietnamese being very open to this experience. And what you've got is this kind of really lovely fusion thing taking place. So when you've got this openness going, you get a lot of like speakeasy bars in alleyways and stuff. Selene Alcock: [00:15:15] Often there's a French owner behind it or whatever, but just the mix of flavors. And then people also kind of saying, all right, well, even in the making of the cocktail there is a fantastic cocktail scene here and fantastically well-made cocktails now and. Ok, let's go into cocktails, so. Selene Alcock: [00:15:37] The thing I like about Saigon is that you've got this labyrinth, labyrinth and kinds of streets and alleyways and stuff. So you've got all these fantastic little bars that would have been either in somebody used to be house or shopfronts or whatever that's been converted to a bar. So you've got a lot of really fantastic alley bars and even mentioned this intersection. You've got like, whole areas which are like alley bars or bars, that are in alleyways and stuff. So you've got this really fantastic on-the-street culture where you can go into a cool cocktail bar. Often there'll be a big, fat, heavy door and you can hear the sounds of music thumping on the inside because, I mean, you want to block out the sound from motorbikes and whatever else is going on in the street. And suddenly you open the door and you go in. There you go. Oh, my God. Selene Alcock: [00:16:27] I've really come into a whole new world that I didn't expect. Well, you've gone sort of down an alleyway and then you found an entrance and then you come down a corridor, and then you've gone up a flight of stairs, and around the corner and everything. And suddenly you end up in this bar and you're like, oh, my God, how does this place exist here? Selene Alcock: [00:16:47] So you think about coming to Vietnam as an expat or even as a tourist to be able to discover these kinds of places. You hear about a place and you discover it often. You get lost trying to find it. So you're like, is this the right number to walk down this dirty alleyway with cats, and dogs and rats and things coming at me? And then I've got to go down here, and up here and around here and then somewhere you end up in this glamorous cocktail bar, groovy music, and stuff, and you're like, oh, wow, this was exciting. [00:17:18] It is because it's also a discovery process of finding the essence of Saigon as a treasure trove of interesting bars and cafes and people and scenes and all sorts of things. So the city lends itself to that. [00:17:43] You've got your kind of tourist strip, you've got your rooftop bars, cocktail bars, you've got five star hotel bars, which are often rooftop bars as well. [00:17:54] We've got like classic Vietnamese nightclubs, which tend to be a bit fast and furious. And then you've got like this whole scene, which is a mix of local Vietnamese and expats, and obviously not really so many tourists these days or no tourists these days. But probably in the past, some troops would turn up, but many expats would go there. And those kinds of scenes, they're just a bit more they're not necessarily all alternative. They're just a bit more underground or not so well known. So there's some really interesting I'll give some examples. So there's a Frenchman here. And I think when we were chatting, I told you I've been on this thing called the Secret Weekend. I've been twice, and I absolutely loved it, which we can talk about in a moment. So the people that organized the secret weekend called Saigon Dub Station. They also run a place called Indika Saigon. And it is a little bit more alternative. As you can turn up in your hippie clothes. You can turn up as a funkster. It just depends on the day and the night. But it's a bit like a little house. And then they've got like it's kind of little house of curios anyway. And then they've got like an outdoor area with a lot of the plants going into the concrete. The trees are going into the concrete. So it's just like a cool. And they've got a vegan restaurant attached to that as well. So it's just like a cool place. And this is got a bit of a hippy alternative vibe to it, I suppose. You know, then there's a really cool place in District two or Tandim, which is where a lot of the foreigners live. A Lot of these places increasingly run by French people or started by French people. [00:19:54] WAM stands for "we are monkeys" and their decor reflects that. It's a very small place. It's very popular. I've been there a lot of times. They get great DJ's, great music as a very small place. Down stairs is like a little counter bar kind of scenario. And everyone hangs out on the street outside drinking so you can get some craft beer on tap. There's this kind of cool lemonade like alcoholic lemonade on tap, which I've had a few times, great cocktails. And then upstairs it's all, it's got this amazing decor and it's all sort of like wallpaper of monkeys and jungles and bananas. Selene Alcock: [00:20:34] And they've got written up there. We are monkeys in a kind of light sign. And it's just a cool, little funky place and just small. And they often have nights there. Selene Alcock: [00:20:48] They're like there's a group called Saigon Pundit's run by an American guy. And so they do talk nights like they did one called " this ex-pat life" and one on "polyamory". [00:21:04] So really interesting topics. So people sort of gather there and talk and drink. So, yeah, I just find Saigon's a real melting pot of people, people from different age groups, different nationalities. As I mentioned, a lot of people who maybe only plan to be here for a short time but ended up living here. Thats only two places I've mentioned. Oh, there's the observatory, which is a really cool late night spot. [00:21:29] It's a bit of an institution that's been going for a while. It's a good place to end up. Vietnam, as in Saigon has become a bit of an entrepreneur's hub. It also has a lot of teachers,and generally, a lot of the people living and working here tend to be in their twenties and thirties. You get like older professional type people who are working in manufacturing because, obviously Saigon is also a big manufacturing hub, particularly in textiles and garment and shoe manufacture. Selene Alcock: [00:21:57] So you get a lot of like families as well. You get a lot of older people in their 40s, 50s who have careers in those areas. They're not necessarily the ones out clubbing. Not to say they don't go out. I'm in my forties, I go out and party. And yet probably the majority of the people I'm partying, partying with are in their twenties and thirties. I don't care, because I'm out there to have a good time. So, yeah, definitely. But I mean, it's just like anywhere you go. If you suddenly were in Sydney and you said I'm going out raving and partying all weekend, you're more likely to find yourself hanging out with a bunch of twenty and thirty-year-olds just because younger people tend to have more energy to party! Selene Alcock: [00:22:38] So they think,....., I think there are no limits. I'm going to keep partying till I'm a 90-year-old granny, at which point I'll become a DJ myself. Selene Alcock: [00:22:54] So the rooftop scene has really expanded as well, so as you mentioned earlier, Kerry, you've been to the Caravelle Hotel, so they have a quite well-known rooftop bar called "Saigon Saigon", and they've had LIVE acts, and they make great cocktails. There is a little outdoor section. You can see the city skyline. Selene Alcock: [00:23:15] Obviously, Saigon has an ever-growing, ever-expanding city skyline because of the nature of it expanding as a city and construction booms. Selene Alcock: [00:23:28] So you also have the Rex Hotel, which is very close to the Carevelle and has a very interesting history. And it's always had a rooftop bar as well. So that's another nice, more relaxed, chilled out place. Selene Alcock: [00:23:42] Often they'll have live acts at some of those five-star hotels. Selene Alcock: [00:23:45] They'll have a rooftop bar and they'll have like a live band and sometimes the ubiquitous Filipino band. But then what's happened in the kind of local Vietnamese scene? More than an expat scene, obviously, if you are an expat or a foreigner, you can go there. Selene Alcock: [00:24:02] We have Chill Sky Bar, which is a bit of an institution. It's probably one of the better rooftop bars in terms of how the bar actually looks. And the view from the bar. Chill Sky Bar is in the AB Tower and it's down towards the sort of traditional tourist area like Bui Vien street, right near the New World Hotel, actually. Selene Alcock: [00:24:28] The view from there is fantastic because you can actually see one of the biggest roundabouts in Saigon, so when you're looking over it, at night, not you can see all the bikes and cars going around, all the lights, you know, especially going around the circle. That's a cool view, plus there's park. From there you can see a bit of greenery and the DJ's Box is a sort of circular box, and it's right in the middle of the bar. So you can be getting your drinks, partying and dancing. And the DJ is sort of there in amongst you. But I think actually it's slightly elevated. Selene Alcock: [00:25:04] So you can sort of walk up the stairs and see down onto the stage and then down onto the street. So there's some really great views from all different angles. A chill sky bar is is is a great place to go, especially as a tourist, because it's got a bit more of a local view. Selene Alcock: [00:25:22] Lots of beautiful Vietnamese girls there as well. A new one that just opened up. Another really great one is Glow Saigon that opened, I think a few years back, I had a birthday there. So actually that's also sort of similar to Chill bar, plus a new one that's opened up is the Epic Sky Lounge. Now, I did pop up there briefly last year and there was some extreme hip hop night going on with extremely loud music. And we went back down the elevator. There are other we were talking about the alternative scene, there are other quieter rooftop bars where there is a bit more of an international DJ vibe. Some of the Vietnamese clubs can be quite commercial and loud to the point of distortion. So there's a mix of people that go to these bars. So there's Broma; Not a Bar which is slightly rooftop. I mean, it's like three stories high. Selene Alcock: [00:26:31] You asked a good question earlier about wining and dining, there's a lot of very up market places. There's one that's been around for a long time. I haven't been there for ages. It's called Shri. It's Shri Restaurant and Lounge or something. It's in the center of town. So you have to go into these office blocks as well and they're at the top of an office block. So Shri is great because it's very useful. It's got loads of water features and stones that you step over and it's very upmarket food. So it's upmarket market wining and dining, but you get a nice view of the city. It's a world away. Selene Alcock: [00:27:08] It's a more quiet, ambient version of a rooftop bar. Selene Alcock: [00:27:13] We also have if you're a tourist in the downtown area, which is in Bui Vien Street there's a place called The View Rooftop, which is in straight. It's at one extreme end of that kind of tourist strip. And so if anyone listening out there, its like the Khao San Road tourist strip in Bangkok, it's kind of the equivalent of that now. Selene Alcock: [00:27:44] So you want a karaoke night out in Saigon, no problem, karaoke everywhere and Vietnamese people love to sing. So I went down there once and I had two friends and they basically went, Yeah, yeah, come on, sing. And then my friend got up and started singing an Elvis Presley song or something to this group of about 40 Vietnamese people in that street. Selene Alcock: [00:28:06] It was pretty hilarious. I think a videod it too, you know, you can have just random experiences like that. You can just join a bunch of people and start singing with them, that's the other area I'm talking about is actually the tourist strip with all the backpacker hotels. Selene Alcock: [00:28:24] So it's more like a boom boom kind of, you know, clubs, bars, but with lots of girlies, dancers in Vietnamese girls in short skirts serving you Heiniken or Tiger beers. So they're kind of more like that. and it didn't used to always be that way, because as I said, I went there in 2005. But that's also been turned into a pedestrian strip. Now, that is quite the circus experience. If you want to go down there, you can sit on the side of the road and eat some local food, and drink some beers and watch people walk by, bicycle by, because I think they allow bicycles and stuff and all sorts of stuff goes on. There is a soap opera taking place on every corner. Selene Alcock: [00:29:12] Thats, the great thing about Vietnamese sort of street life and nightlife is that you can actually just sit on the side of the road and observe. And it's more interesting to watch people. Certainly more interesting than watching television, there's a lot going on. You can say "those people over there having a domestic" and see if it "is a love affair going on over there". Someone's moving their cyclo and bikes and all of this. Some with guinea pigs on a bike and 28 water bottles trying to get down an alleyway. There are all sorts of stuff going on because obviously, people try to load up a lot of stuff. As I say, this is kind of a motorbike-free zone, I think now at night. But people still go down on bicycles. Selene Alcock: [00:30:02] Yes, totally. I mean, if you want to go on the experience I just described, if you want to go and have a beer on the side of the road and some sort of local snack food kind of thing, it's cheap. Selene Alcock: [00:30:15] So the word for a sort of beer on tap places could be a bia hoi So there are a lot of these kind of street places where they have, you know, they'll have an actual shopfront, it's not just purely on the street food. Just to clarify the street food that is purely on the street. They've got all of the bits and bobs that they need to set that up. And cook it on the street. And then there is sort of more like sitting on the street. But there's an actual place or restaurant doing the cooking. Yeah, yeah. And they'll have a toilet and all that sort of stuff. So those kinds of places they normally call a Quan to you, and so it's more like a local place that usually has a certain kind of food. So whether it's bia hoi food, it will typically have food that goes with that, sticks of barbecued things. Usually, you don't get fried rice, it's usually non rice-based. It's barbecued salty things or sort of snack food to go with Beer because essentially you are there to drink beer. Then you have a street food place which will just be eating food and might not have a beer. So if you go to one of these places, you could eat food and drink quite cheaply if you go to a local bar. Again, you can buy inexpensive drinks, but if you suddenly want to go to an upmarket cocktail bar, which there are now many, certainly the prices go up. Selene Alcock: [00:31:44] But as you just mentioned, the comparison to Australia or Sydney, things to keep in mind is that if you want to drink and of course you're not going to drive, your taxi fare is super cheap. If you've got kids and you've got to pay for a babysitter, your babysitter is super cheap. So and then you basically, if you wanted to go for a similar culinary or drinking experience as to somewhere like Australia or Sydney, where I'm from, you can have the same or better quality, in my experience, for definitely a fraction of the price. So you can probably pay a quarter or a third and get the same quality. As I said, the cocktail scene has really gone off. I know somebody who started a bitters company here and he actually makes the best out of a lot of the local products or resources from Vietnam. So, I mean, things like Cinnamon Saigon is famous for cinnamon, lemongrass, ginger, obviously. So there are a number of spices. And obviously, it's become a chocolate country. It's the second-largest exporter of coffee in the world so all of these things are going into his bitters. I love the beaches. It's called Saigon Bittesr Company. And so a lot of the cocktail bars are using these and they just add that extra little touch. So but also, you know, the Vietnamese are really they embrace so much. [00:33:21] So, you know, some of these bars and new ventures, a run or initiate have been initiated by foreigners. But Vietnamese are getting up and making fantastic coffee shops, bars, and they have a strong coffee culture. Nothing to do with foreigners. I mean, obviously, first introduced by the French, but they are fantastic at running their own coffee shops, bars and everything. And they're fantastic cooks have got an amazing cuisine. So they just know how to mix things up, and that applies to drinks and cocktails. So they're just getting really good in the whole cocktail-making department. [00:34:03] A new thing that started last week with Secret Weekend, they've done three secret weekends, it's run by a guy called Morgan. He's French from Saigon Dub Station. And the last one I went to weekend three was just outstanding. I had a fantastic time. So basically what it is, I think the next one is going to be in a different location. But the last two, we're at a mud bath, hot spring resort, about two or three hours north of Saigon. So I'm not sure if it was five stars, but It was very beautiful Resort. You Could stay in a villa or stay in a room depending on your income. So basically, to go on this secret, you pay a certain amount. [00:34:50] And then they had a party in the forest area of the resort and they had a giant carved bear which has a tree coming out its head that had a lot of fantastic lights and a lot of international DJ acts. [00:35:07] So there was a bit of a spontaneous drag show performance and also some live music. Some guys were mixing beats and performing, singing at the same time and playing some instruments, the Vibe Mechanics. They are my new favorite thing, I just saw, they're playing again soon. So it's just what I was saying about the alternative scene. There's just like a lot of people really great creative people about, particularly in the music scene and mixing and creating these exciting kinds of things. [00:35:35] So a lot of people compared it to Burning Man, which I've not been to, so I can't really say. But it was like a weekend outdoor - 48 hours of music. They also have music by the pool, so it is like nonstop DJ's back to back and all international DJ's as well as Vietnamese, just fantastic music and really chilled out people having a good time. They had some TP's set up outside. The lights. I mean, the photos I saw from this weekend, just amazing. And then you can go and hang out in the hot pools. And we were actually sitting in a villa and we had a hot pool. You know, like a 40 degree hot pool. Yes, after a hard day of dancing in the forest, you can get into the hot pool. Selene Alcock: [00:36:30] Thank you for asking me and definitely, I'll provide your listeners with a cool rooftop, cocktail lounges, alternative craft beer, list. We can do a whole kind of wrap-up, with names of the places, and then hopefully when Tourism returns and tourists can come and check out a lot of these places. Thank you for listening. Kerry Newsome: [00:36:55] Check out the episode notes for more information. What about Vietnam? Kerry Newsome: [00:36:59] Don't forget to subscribe, write and review and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam.

S4-11 Revisiting Vietnam Revisiting Vietnam post Covid - First impressions Episode 11 S4-11 Revisiting Vietnam 00:00 / 19:53 Finally, as your host of the What About Vietnam podcast, it's my turn to revisit Vietnam and check it out for myself.
 In this show I share with you my experience from leaving Australia to arriving into Vietnam. My first visit back since March 2020. 
I share what the travel experience is like entering the country? How does it feel? 
What are my first impressions? Has HCMC changed and where are the changes most noticeable.
 Plus, my first time back in Vietnam would not be complete without me sharing with you my welcome back into Hoi An. I likewise share with you my take on getting around Saigon; Best insights into the coffee culture and just how it feels being a minority in the domestic traveller demographic. 

If you want to hear first-hand just how easy it is to travel in Vietnam in September, 2022, then this is the show for you. Straight from the horse’s mouth...so to speak!

 Time stamps to help guide you through the episode: 00.38 The Visa process in action 04.24 Arriving into Vietnam – what to expect 06.17 The domestic travel experience 08.03 HCMC – most significant changes 09.52 Getting around HCMC 13.27 Dining out and the coffee scene Saigon 17.32 Hoi An – Welcoming me back 

Mentioned in the show the A by Tung restaurant To get a little more in depth about Fine Dining in Vietnam check out The Fine Dining Episode with Raj Taneja here Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

3f0e6c92-f3f3-4950-8fa3-5b1ae46c7755Five golden rules on getting the best accommodation Accommodation in Vietnam Episode 5 S1-05 Accommodation 00:00 / 22:51 It's time to book accommodation. This is the exciting part of trip planning because if you are like me, this is when you really feel like "THIS IS REALLY GOING TO HAPPEN". I'm going! Listen up to my 5 golden rules - to ensure you get the type of stay, and value for money you are always hearing about in Vietnam. It's available. Let me show you where. It's not always written in the detail, or reviews of the hotel you are viewing. You take those on face value. The question is:- Does it fit that picture in your head of your perfect stay? Let me give you my hard-earned truths about finding the right kind of accommodation for your visit. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

971b2c29-b5dc-4a86-ac7b-6ac56695c545When it is about the food it is because it is fantastic What About Vietnam - 2-19 Discover the culture and history of Vietnam through its food Kerry Newsome: [00:00:35] Xin Chau, and welcome to What About Vietnam? Kerry Newsome: [00:00:38] Look, when someone tells you they think Vietnam has put a string around their heart and brings them coming back for more. Year after year, you know, you have to have them on the show. That's just it. Have you ever heard that saying “you can feel the love” or “you should listen to your heart?” Both those sayings speak. directly to my guest today when she talks about her love and her genuine knowledge of Vietnamese cuisine and the Vietnamese people. Monika Czerveniak is my guest today. And as an enthusiastic traveller of South East Asia, she has worked in the hospitality industry for many years as a consultant. She's a food blogger and she runs Chow Down Vietnam Food Tours. And in her spare time, she is the face and creator behind fearless cooking classes and workshops in Hoi An and Vietnam. Vancouver, B.C., Canada, where we're talking to her today. And, you know, she pretty much goes wherever her taste buds will let her. Being born and raised in Austria to a family of restaurateurs. Monika speaks of the importance of fresh food; ingredients that burst with simple flavours and yet delight the palate. The smells and excitement of growing up in a restaurant inspired her further education and training in Austria and to her broader travels throughout Europe and Asia. She tells me a few years ago she felt completely in love with Vietnam's magical culture and people while crisscrossing the country several times and indulging in their amazingly fresh and healthy cuisine. Finally settling in Hoi An for eight years, her beloved tours and experiences of food in Vietnam will not only open your ears, hearts and imagination to Vietnamese food you can experience during your stay, but I'm betting it may be the subject that you talk most about when you get home. So let's jump in and hear what this fun loving, fearless chef has to tell us about Vietnamese food and what you can expect on your visit. Kerry Newsome: [00:02:55] Monika, it's great to have you on the show. Welcome. Monika Czerveniak: [00:02:59] Welcome. Thank you for having me. Kerry Newsome: [00:03:02] It's absolutely delightful to have you on. We've got a lot to get through. So I'm going to start by asking something I've been meaning to ask you when we began chatting. What inspired you to visit Vietnam that very first time? Monika Czerveniak: [00:03:22] Well, that's very simple. In 1980, and 19992 a movie came out in the U.S. and in that movie was Catherine Deneuve. And I was crazy, crazy about this woman. She was beautiful. I mean, she still is today. Anyway, the movie has really touched me not only for herself as an actress, but the whole thing about the story of Vietnam or in the scene and the French and so on, so forth. So it really inspired me all these years. That's what I want to do one day. So and that's what happened. So I was working in Beijing and Singapore and all of a had to leave for about 30 for 30 days of working to leave and go somewhere and come back after a week with a visa requirement. And so I went everywhere except Vietnam and it never happened. So after I retired, I finally did go to Vietnam for five weeks and I travelled the entire country and I totally fell in love with the country and thus came “chowdownVietnam”. Well a little later. But yes, through my travels and through my interest and my passion, which is food, people said, well why don't you do a full tour. Kerry Newsome: [00:04:56] Ok, and I think we said you'd been there about eight years. So that's quite a long time to get around Vietnam. Monika Czerveniak: [00:05:05] Yes. And I still don't know everything. Kerry Newsome: [00:05:09] Now, it's an ever-changing landscape, that is for sure. So before we get tangled up in in too much of that, I mean, we've got some stories to cover. I don't want to get caught up in noodles and sticky rice just yet. But look, try it if you can, to just give us a little bit of history about the influences that make Vietnamese cuisine quite unique, amongst other Asian cuisines. You know, sometimes it gets kind of put in the Asian food general bucket. And you and I both agree that's not the case. But talk to us, if you can, just a little bit about what the influences are that make, Vietnamese food so special, so unique. Monika Czerveniak: [00:06:05] Well, I think I need to start with a little bit of history of the occupation of Vietnam. They have been occupied for over thousands of years by the Chinese, the Japanese, the French and the British were there for about a year. So they had a lot of influences coming to them. And after the war, all I would say more, less 20th century, 20th century, their cuisine has sort of come about and changed completely because of the French influence, the French when they occupied. They were almost 70 years in Vietnam when they occupied Vietnam. In that time they created beautiful buildings, streets and sidewalks and beautiful houses. And they brought their cuisine. They brought their Pho, which is a chicken soup with vegetables in France. They brought their pate, they brought the breads & baguettes and all these things they brought into the food. And what happened was the Vietnamese sort of adapted it to their style and they created something out of it. So this is why they have a fabulous spread. This is why. They have amazing coffee, amazing noodles and rice, because, you know, they had nothing, especially after the war. There was not much rice in the. north. So in the south, there was a lot of rice, rice paddies coming up in order to feed the country. So as it is of the day, it has really been influenced by all these different cultures, But, especially the north, the north has very much been influenced by the Chinese over these years, so the cuisine in the north is over; taste is a little bit different than from the south. So there's quite a difference in that because of agricultural ways in the north. So it's colder there, so theres more noodles, whereas the South is doing the rice because there's plenty of food and lots of fruits and vegetables and herbs and they've grown all that in the south. So to do that, whether because of the weather as well, the South is always heart and soul is rice. Monika Czerveniak: [00:08:43] And so things are going different. So everything tastes a little bit different. And it's almost like two cultures, both doing the same thing. Kerry Newsome: [00:08:54] Yeah. And, you know, it's something that I learnt very early on in my trips back and forth was that, you know, I tried to get one dish in Saigon, and then try to order the same dish in Hanoi and either ,I couldn't get it, or be it just tasted totally different. And I was like, what have I missed here? Like, yeah. Can you explain? Monika Czerveniak: [00:09:24] Well, it is because of the Chinese influence in the north. So they are more into. And it's the fish sauce in the south, the focus is on fish. Kerry Newsome: [00:09:33] So, the Chinese influence is very strong in the north. Monika Czerveniak: [00:09:38] Even you don't mention that word of it, but you know, it is their cuisine. Monika Czerveniak: [00:09:45] So they're very proud of that. But I think and I know that this is the main concern or the main difference that the weather and what they're growing, that's what it is all about. So in the north, they have more pork and chicken and more proteins basically, and not as many vegetables and not as many fresh foods as the South has. It's because of that also the way that basically their own cuisine that's what happens. If you have a buncha, for instance, which is a national decision in Hanoi, which you must have if you have it in Hanoi, it will taste completely different. It’s the same as spring rolls or just noodles or whatever it is, it's all a little bit different. And also in the in the north, they don't serve their food spicy. You will get spicy condiments that you use yourself. But they don't add them in. You put it yourself into the soups or into the things, but they're not making the dishes spicy, is they do in the south. You get a little bit more "Umph" Kerry Newsome: [00:11:05] Yeah. Monika Czerveniak: [00:11:05] Well what is happening with the food is incredible harmony about flavours. It's very important. It's like, you know, the four or five senses of cooking. It's sweet, sour, spicy, pungent and salty. So and they also have the little marny flavor because of the fish sauce. Kerry Newsome: [00:11:28] So I know it does. Kerry Newsome: [00:11:33] And it makes sense to me when I did some street food tours and certainly also when I did some cooking classes to just say the additives of when you mentioned, I think you said sweet, sour and punchy, which is chili and things like that, but the amount of sugar that goes in some and the amount of salt and the amount of chili does vary quite dramatically in each area. And I mean, to me, that kind of adds some of the excitement about it. If you let your taste buds take you to various locations, it's never the same. I want to talk a little bit about street food, and I want to do that because it comes up a lot. And some people, I think, have a little bit of a reservation about eating street food. I mean, I I've been a fairly game traveller, I suppose so I will eat it. No matter what country, if they're serving something that's cooked. If that smell and that aroma is drawing me in, I'm there and I'm buying that shish kebab or that stick of pork, you know, something to try. Much to the amazement of who I'm traveling with. You don't know what's in that. And that could be this and that could be that. So talk to us a little bit about street food and Vietnam to me. Monika Czerveniak: [00:13:21] The first thing I would like to suggest to anyone who visits Vietnam, take a food tour, don't be cheap, good food to eat because you learn a tremendous amount and your eyes will be open. Monika Czerveniak: [00:13:38] And the guys, which is all speaking really well, English, and they see they know everything and they know where to go. I highly suggest that, you know, if you walk around the first few days and see what's going on, but your curiosity will get the better of you, because you see food everywhere and you just ache to try it. You’ll be watching the food being cooked and then three minutes later, there's some fabulous things in there and there's all this. So, add in salads and, you know, with one second you have this amazing noodle dish that you have no idea. A minute ago it was there and I was there and now you're eating it and the flavors and the taste of it and the freshness of it. So that's what needs to be seen in the midst of the experience. But the most important thing is, yes, there's a bit of a problem. I mean, food safety, we're not in North America. When I was in Australia, when you go to Asia, you have a certain bit of resistance in your stomach to what you eat. Mind you, you can get a food safety program, even in the best hotels. Kerry Newsome: [00:15:00] It can happen. Absolutely. Monika Czerveniak: [00:15:02] So when you see what was one of my philosophy, I always go where there are people. So the more people, more are on the street in that place. So, you know, lounges. And I'm going to say this fast. Well, I know the pork’s been out all day, but it's unheard of in our country that that is what you have this out on the council. So, yeah, you need to go, to know where to go and what to do. The thing is about three, four days. And when you watch this and I've watched so many, many times and I love watching it is when you go to the markets and you see all these little shops and these little LB's and there is not much food around, the food comes constantly fresh. There's fresh chicken coming. It just killed is around the corner that is coming. Monika Czerveniak: [00:15:54] And, you know, it's just everything it's fresh and it's coming to you live with these guys on the motorbike vespa’s and got all the chicken hanging up a little bit and just five minutes ago. Monika Czerveniak: [00:16:05] And you get the freshest of the freshest and you get the first chance and maybe to drive once. So, you know, there's a lot to watch. But I think you just have to let go and try everything. If you don't go to Vietnam to experience the food, I would say don't waste your time to go there. Kerry Newsome: [00:16:25] I fully agree, I think it is. [00:16:29] And I think there's always some lovely characters that come with that. and some experiences like the people or the vendors that are selling it. You know, you can kind of strike up some kind of communication with them. You know, the stories told sitting on little red chairs. They absolutely fascinated me when I first came to Vietnam. I thought, my God, this country has just had a bulk sale in red chairs, what's the story behind the red chairs. Monika Czerveniak: [00:17:03] I don't know where they came from. Monika Czerveniak: [00:17:06] Well, I always make up the stories as the French left a little chair from the kids playground. Or something and like that. Monika Czerveniak: [00:17:12] And they wanted to open up the shop. Monika Czerveniak: [00:17:15] There's not much room and they want to get as many people into their little shop. So, you know, they are perfect for that. Monika Czerveniak: [00:17:24] And then I always feel like I'm playing house like a ten year old again, that, you know, it's like I remember the first time I was in taking a hike up in Sapa in the northern parts, and we had this fabulous tour guide. This woman with a baby on the back. And the walk was for, you know, six, seven hours a day. And at the end of the tour, she said, I would like to invite you to my house. It wasn't really a house, it was a little contraption, a shed kind of thing where you could look through the walls and it was like two by fours kind of put together. And she said, sit down and I'm making you some dinner. Monika Czerveniak: [00:18:09] And there she is on the floor chopping up cabbage and putting boards there. And she's kneeling on the floor. And as they do and then chopping up the leaf. Monika Czerveniak: [00:18:22] And in a half an hour later, it's amazing you know. I will never forget that. And then how much they put in to show you how much they love their country is unbelievable. And they will do anything for you. Food to love it. Kerry Newsome: [00:18:38] Yes. Well, yes. Yes, I agree. Kerry Newsome: [00:18:42] I think I mean, I purposely did cooking classes and took food tours because I think the best way to get to know a country is definitely through their food. And as you say, they are very proud of their food and their cuisine, the spices, everything that they put into it. They do it with such love that, you know, you feel like you’re a part of their family almost when they are serving a dish, which is absolutely just delightful. But tell us, like you run ChowDownTours, which is a fabulous concept and I know very successful. Talk to us a little bit about some of the experiences along those tours with people, because obviously, people listening to us are saying, oh, gee, you know, is that me or not? You know, people have expectations or some preconceived ideas. Talk to us a little bit about some of the experiences that you've enjoyed with people on your tours. Monika Czerveniak: [00:19:57] Well, first, I want to say no to tours are ever the same. Everything I do is a little bit different. So different areas, different food, different things that we do, mainly because I have to say I'm very selfish. Monika Czerveniak: [00:20:12] I like to be excited about things that I do. So I don't like doing the same thing all over again. So during my tours, I mean, I will take people and always start in Hanoi because that's where you need to start, in my opinion, in order to get to know Vietnam, to see the difference and everything else and see how people are. But we usually start in Hanoi. We went up to Sapa before this year. Monika Czerveniak: [00:20:40] Now we're adding in Phong Nha is where we go. My last tour in Vietnam was two years ago. Monika Czerveniak: [00:20:54] And I've taken 16 people on the Ho Chi Minh Trail for five days. So we did that on a motorbike. So everybody was sitting on the back of a motorbike. And some of us were driving our own little bikes. But it was an amazing tour. And to this day, and this has been two years now, people are still in touch with me. And they say it was the best trip they have ever had in their whole life. Monika Czerveniak: [00:21:21] So seeing Vietnam in a different way, different areas, it's just amazing. So and then we're going down to Hoi An, which is why I decided it's the most beautiful part of all of Vietnam. And my idea of beautiful beaches. So there we are. We do bike rides. We find how rice is cultivated. What they're doing with it in April, then in April, October, we'll be watching a rice harvest and how they're processing the rice and what's involved and actually showing them the real hard work that's involved. And they have earned five cents on a bowl of rice to feed the family. We also go to cooking classes and I do two, three, day cooking classes sometimes where it's not only Vietnamese, but it's also very, very much into fresh food and also not wasting food. So this is where fearless cooking comes out of ChowdownVienam. So, that's what I'm continuing at the moment here in Canada, because, you know, we're kind of stuck. Kerry Newsome: [00:22:41] Yes, I’m right with you on that one. When we talk about fresh, speak to us a little bit about the freshness side. And they don't waste anything. That was the thing. I think we started cooking something with the pumpkin plant, and I couldn't believe that they used absolutely every part of the pumpkin, the flower, fruit, the vegetable. So talk to us a little bit about the freshness side and, and just about theire need to not want to waste anything. Monika Czerveniak: [00:23:20] Well, that's I think that's the number one thing about Vietnam is the Vietnamese food is the freshness and one of the reasons everybody has their own voice. They have a community, community gardens, community-wise is that they share in the villages. The government has given them all of so much land that they can harvest. It's theirs. And then the community goes together. So everything is fresh. They don't go to the supermarket, you know, I mean, the bigger cities they have, but they don't have supermarkets, so they don't have processed food, even though I have to say that's coming in and the children are young people is getting into that, unfortunately. But the freshness is there because they live right there, and they put it right there in their own house. They got the rice outside and they harvest the spinach and herbs and they're selling it goes to the market and making the news in the morning or the rice gets cooked in the morning off they go to the market and it so that's a very natural thing. They don't understand that. And nothing gets leftover. Everything gets eaten and then they start all over again. And, you know, when they have dinner, they're about six or eight dishes or whatever, you can just have fun like we do spring rolls. And that's our dinner. No, no. There's a whole lot of vegetables and herbs. The whole is incredibly important to Vietnamese cuisine. Monika Czerveniak: [00:24:52] And, you know, I mean food. So you have amazing flavors in there. This is unbelievable. So it's always for them. Kerry Newsome: [00:24:59] It's awesome. It's always if I can just interject that it's always amazed me because they have in some ways a high vegetarian but high carb diet, which, you know, because of the noodles and because of the rice etc. But they're so tiny as people. Kerry Newsome: [00:25:19] What is in their rice and their noodles that isn't in ours? Monika Czerveniak: [00:25:29] I think it's the combination of there's never just rice, it's all this rice goes with vegetables. And you must have this. I mean, the amount of vegetables that the amount of greens that they are eating, that's what makes them really healthy. We don't eat that amount of wheat. When you look at, you know, the spinach and the herbs and there's a plate of green on the table. This is enormous. It's huge. And they're not eating like us. A whole big bowl of rice, even though they are. But it's mixed and slowly and enjoying it. We are rushing our. - Breakfast, lunch and dinner. For them its an art form. You don't just throw all of that away and not care. Monika Czerveniak: [00:26:14] You know, you're enjoying it and you are meeting your friends. You're talking to your family. Monika Czerveniak: [00:26:20] Food is the most important thing for Vietnamese kids. I mean, there's nothing else but food, you know, money. We want to make money and make a living. But food is the priority. And when they need you, they will give you food. Monika Czerveniak: [00:26:36] You must have food. You must take food, food for them. This is an extension of who they are. And I think they're sharing it with us. And it's fabulous. It's really is an amazing thing. Kerry Newsome: [00:26:51] And it took me a while to grab that concept because, you know, I have very dear friend, she's Vietnamese. And I actually met her when she delivered a cooking class. And we just got on so well and have been friends for years. But it's kind of almost ritualistic, isn't it? It's celebrating. Yes. It's being respectful of the food, grateful for the food and their appreciation of your company to enjoy it. And they slow down. As you say, they're not like us that are just gobbling food and shoving it down our throat. They do it meticulously. They do it very artfully, almost how they will set it up and they will bless the food and then eat it. And it really forced me to take a real look at just, you know, what I do when I come home. When I am back home cooking food, as we do with a family or whatever, and, you know, I've sat at the table and I've said to people, just slow the heck down. You know, we can enjoy this food and we should be more grateful for that. We have it. So I'm glad you brought that up. But where should a traveller start and finish and what locations and maybe dishes they should try? Geez, there are a lot questions. Monika Czerveniak: [00:28:48] I'll make it firm, you know me! Monika Czerveniak: [00:28:50] I mean, first of all, I know, You need to start in Hanoi, and I know it has amazing food. Monika Czerveniak: [00:29:02] And as I mentioned, you need to first of all, have Pho, you need to have the food, the soup for the food, whatever you want to call it is an important start. It used to be in the old days. It used to be for Vietnamese that it would only be available in the morning if that was a breakfast and so forth because of the influx of the tourists of wanting more and more and more. Now it's getting served 24 hours. Monika Czerveniak: [00:29:33] I mean, you can have Pho anywhere and that's where you need to have that in order to try to sit down in the south. Right. In order to see the difference. The other thing is Buncha, it is Bún chả it is ground PORK it comes with noodles and it comes with special sauces. And it's just an experience. So you just you might look at it and say, oh, that looks like burger patties, but it is so much love and taste and flavor in these things and how they ARE making. And it comes with very special spring rolls. So that's another dish that you need to try and over the other one IS CHA CA LA VONG, which is a fish DISH. And there's a whole street dedicated. It's actually called CHA CA LA VONG in the old QUARTER dedicated to that. And some restaurants, there are some of them over a hundred years old and you don't have to order anything. Monika Czerveniak: [00:30:30] It's just sit down and they'll bring these COOKERS and they bring you a big frying pan. And the thing is sizzling on it and you start cooking it yourself and turning everything and dipping it here and adding the noodles. And it's fish. And the sauce is a very special dish. It's a white fish. It's very tasty. It's not a FATTY FISH. It's very, very, very, very good fish, very tasty. And it comes in a DILL sauce. And that's that's an amazing, amazing dish that a lot of people don't know about. And it's very, very important that they TRY that. And of course, you want to have your first introduction to a BANH MI, which is A BAQUETTE with various things. And you can have is one of the first words I learned was Op LA and Op LA means eggs and so is you in the morning, walk around, you see these people with these BAQUETTE'S selling you stuff. You just go Op LA and they give you some eggs and amazing herbs and special sauces that they make. Everybody makes a little sauce and it's something to die for. So you start off with that and then you make your way down to the to the middle part of the southern part and things start to change a little bit there. But again, go for the BANH MI -one of the best BANH MI in the whole world is IN HOI AN. And there's nothing better than that. Kerry Newsome: [00:32:03] Yeah. Yeah, you do. And once again, as you say, the baguettes, as in the bread that they make is, is just as you say....to die for.. Monika Czerveniak: [00:32:14] It is to die for myself. And one of the ways it's made with white flour, there's a little bit of wheat flour. Monika Czerveniak: [00:32:21] I had the pleasure of working in a bakery for the night and it was quite interesting. None of them spoke in English. And my Vietnamese is yes, no, not the non existing, but it was amazing. Monika Czerveniak: [00:32:36] I thought it was just flour, but yeah, no, it's rice mixed with a little bit of wheat flour, and it's unbelievable. Monika Czerveniak: [00:32:45] One more thing. I like to add is that people need to try in Hanoi, and that is an egg coffee. Vietnamese is very famous for their coffee. And you need to try any kind of coffee, its like a coffee that is black, with AN egg THAT IS WHIPPED on top, which is like you know, when you whip up some eggs , with some wine, which is not in there, it's called SABAYON. So that is put on top ONTO THE COFFEE.. And so the affect to the coffee is unbelievable. Forget the 5000 calories, but it's fabulous. Kerry Newsome: [00:33:25] Yes, I know, I'm one of these people that even when I order a juice, I say no sugar because I can get a bit sugared-up over there if I didn't love the sugar or sugars or something. Monika Czerveniak: [00:33:41] Yes. Kerry Newsome: [00:33:42] So we finish up. We finish up, we stop and we go to Hanoi. And I think another thing that I've enjoyed, I'm sure you have to in Hoi An and Danang is seafood and being able to eat just beautifully freshly caught seafood when you're selecting it out of a bucket. Pretty much, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah. Monika Czerveniak: [00:34:13] No, they're great with the mussels. With the clams in this fabulous thing with clams. They just throw them on the barbecue. But they have a different system that we have on barbecue deal, making it steamy hot and they're waving something around. So in order to put the heat to go right into it, I mean, you will see a lot of men on the street that are actually barbecuing in front of the house and selling it. And they're taking great pride in that. And that's a whole system of holiday barbecue and how they're fattening it and how which way to do it. But the seafood, yes, it's it's fabulous. Kerry Newsome: [00:34:51] It's really fresh. Monika Czerveniak: [00:34:54] So with everything so we do Banh Mi and we definitely do seafood in Hoi An and then we head down further down south and we end up I mean, Monika Czerveniak: [00:35:10] If I may interrupt for a second, there's Cau Lau in Hoi An. Monika Czerveniak: [00:35:14] Oh, How did we forget Cau Lau it's a very, very special dish that's is only going to get in Hoi An. And so this is your chance. If you get it somewhere else, I can tell you it's not going to be the same. So that is there is a very special well in Hoi An, that they are taking the water in order to cook from the water from the well. Monika Czerveniak: [00:35:40] And that's right. Ba Le Well. Well, and it's very important. Kerry Newsome: [00:35:45] So is that true? Kerry Newsome: [00:35:48] I thought that was a myth! Monika Czerveniak: [00:35:55] Some of them are not. But the myth is this is the water and that's the only way of getting the right flavors. So they are cooking the dinner. So it's a broth and it has some herbs in it. And, you know, it's basil and all kinds of things. And it's just a very aromatic soup that with noodles and meat and very thin slices of pork. Kerry Newsome: [00:36:21] And it's just so delicious too. It’s all about the broth, isn't it? It's the most important thing. And the crunchy pieces of pork. Kerry Newsome: [00:36:33] Oh, yes. I can't say enough about what to do with pork bellies, that's for sure. Kerry Newsome: [00:36:41] I sure do, but absolutely do. So if we leave Hoi Am, where would we go to next, do you think? Monika Czerveniak: [00:36:49] Well, you can go straight to Saigon but if you want to have some really experience, that is completely different. I'd like everybody to go into every part of the country but you should go to Dalat, as it is completely different which is in the mountains, which is of oh my goodness. French friends used to go and build mansions in the mountains for the summer and just enjoying themselves and the nice cool temperature and the last. And it's beautiful, beautiful agriculture is they have a lot of silkworms where they make silk out of it. So you can watch them. You can eat silkworms there. You can eat silkworms anywhere. But if you were to eat silkworms, I would say you have to do it in Dalat with a little bit of garlic and white wine sauce is absolutely delicious. Monika Czerveniak: [00:37:45] I know a lot of people go big in the in the in the U.S., but it is a delicacy Monika Czerveniak: [00:37:53] They also believe in love and have crackers and all kinds of animals up there, because let's remember the war, there was nothing to eat. So after the war, there was nothing there .No rice. So they were starving. So they went with insects and all kinds of things. Yes. Have been using in the past cats and yes. Is still using dogs in some special areas, unfortunately. But we have to also understand the culture and that out of neccesity they come from them. And a lot of these old timers, especially men like that kind, can’t change. Monika Czerveniak: [00:38:35] But anyway, it's an interesting, very beautiful monastery up in the last beautiful coffee country. It's lovely. Strawberries, flowers, all the flowers from Vietnam have come from the lot. Kerry Newsome: [00:38:51] So it's very good. It's a beautiful place. And they have everlasting flowers and strawberries the size of eggs. I've never seen such big strawberries. Yes, you can actually taste them. Exactly. Yeah. Kerry Newsome: [00:39:10] So then would we go to I want to grab you before we finish up, because I know you've got a little bit to tell about Phu Quoc, but I want to just grab from you in Saigon. What dish would you pick to make sure that you try. Monika Czerveniak: [00:39:30] Well, there you go again. You have to have seafood's in Saigon. You get the best fox and the best the best seafood anywhere. I mean, I would highly suggest you go on on a food tour with a motorbike, you know, several tour companies and I mentioned my favorites to accompany there. Monika Czerveniak: [00:39:55] If I go on Vespas, which I go in Saigon. This visit is an adventure that you can have in every town. But if you don't have time up north, I highly suggest Saigon to do it. It's an experience you will never forget on the back of a motorbike at six o'clock is rush hour. You have about nine million motorbikes out there and going all in one direction. And then people go and they stop in various places in order to have frog and crab and very delicate things, and the stuffed squid and things like that. Then you go to to drive around and you see the town, the city lit up. Monika Czerveniak: [00:40:45] And it's just beautiful seeing it like this and everything. Monika Czerveniak: [00:40:48] And then you go into a nightclub but don't actually go into a bar. They take you to a place where you go down some back alley and it goes to show, some people's houses and you go upstairs, and you up on some top floor and you find a great jazz band playing. And it's just the most intimate, beautiful kind of music. There's no microphones. It's organically done, and it's an experience of it's own. And afterwards you go to a nightclub and there is something else. Vietnamese like to dance. They all like to dance and they love music. They're great musicians, and they're just having a good time enjoying life so much, so much more than we do in reality every day. Monika Czerveniak: [00:41:38] Absolutely. I'm out with my friends. Monika Czerveniak: [00:41:41] Yeah. There's no weekend. I'm going with my friends. So it's always every day, they are out and about. So highly recommended is the highlight of my summer and it's an experience they will never forget and you will be able to do the things that you've never used before. Kerry Newsome: [00:42:00] All right. Well, knowing how you and I can get we could be here for hours, but I'm trying to be aware of time. Can you just talk very quickly? I just want to finish up with a little bit about Phu Quoc, because not many know much about it. But I know we talked about Pepper and we also talked about fish sauce. And I just thought very quickly, you could tell the importance of that and just how it relates to Phu Quoc, the island in the South China Sea. Monika Czerveniak: [00:42:44] So what it’s really famous for, is for the fish sauce. And it's in all the other parts of Vietnam, fish sauce is made with squid. This one is made with anchovies. And it really sets it apart from any other fish sauce that I've ever tasted. Firstly, I like Red Bull fish sauce, which is amazing. And I realized it is now in a lot of different countries and I was finally able to export it. And it's really made a name of itself. But also, it is a pristine beautiful island with fabulous beaches. There are some parts where, you know, the Sheridan and all those big conglomerates have appeared. But there's also a jungle there that you can get lost in a very easy. But if you're looking for food, seafood, it is. I've never in my life seeing prawns like this. They were like some of them were like, you know, 10, 12 inches long. I've not ever seen one. So huge, they're like little crayfish, almost little lobsters. That's how big. Monika Czerveniak: [00:44:17] Wow. So are you. And tasty. Oh, fantastic. Fantastic. And you know, in Vietnam they have this very special dipping sauce. Everything goes into it. Monika Czerveniak: [00:44:27] And it's it's basically made from water, sugar, lime juice and of course, fish sauce and chili. And so this is unbelievable. But in Phu Quoc, because it has such fantastic pepper, it's one very, very aromatic pepper. And unfortunately, I just ran out the other day, so I need to go back. Kerry Newsome: [00:44:52] We definitely have to go back. Monika Czerveniak: [00:44:54] Yeah, absolutely. But what they are doing is taking the beautiful pepper. ….they grind it up with a little bit of salt and then they're mixing it in a little bit with lime juice. And that's what you dip, your giant prawns and shrimps in. Oh, my God, I'm salivating right now as I speak. But it's unforgettable, an unforgettable taste. Its just Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: [00:45:27] Monika, look, this is definitely going to be an unforgettable episode because we've covered so much and I'm so thrilled to have done it with you. Maybe might kind of grab you for another episode down the track. We might even get you to talk about a recipe maybe that people can try at home. Maybe we do something like that. Kerry Newsome: [00:45:51] What do you think? Monika Czerveniak : Id love to love to do that. Yes. Fantastic. OK, Monika, I'm going to have to say farewell. Thank you for your time. And I hope to be in Vietnam with you very soon. . Thank you for listening. Kerry Newsome: [00:46:16] Check out the episode notes for more information. What about Vietnam? Don't forget to subscribe, write and review and stay tuned for more on adventures in Vietnam.

Vietnam travel podcasts featuring stories and interviews about a variety of special interest activiies and adventures in Vietnam Special Interest S2-25 River Cruising Vietnam Go to Episode S2-18 Masterminding your trip Go to Episode S2-11 Golf in Vietnam Go to Episode S2-23 Vietnam Cooking Classes Go to Episode S2-17 Wellness and Healing Go to Episode S2-10 Dental Holiday in Vietnam Go to Episode S2-21 Vietnamese Trail Marathons Go to Episode S2-14 Social Enterprise Travel Go to Episode S2-06 Top 5 Photography locations Go to Episode S2-19 Culture History through food Go to Episode S2-13 Skin Wellness retreat Go to Episode S2-08 Vietnam wedding Destination Go to Episode S3-24 Phu Quoc A scenic island paradise Go to Episode S3-18 Emerging comedy in Saigon Go to Episode S3-12 From Tourist to Resident Go to Episode S3-23 Your next wellness destination Go to Episode S3-17 Mui Ne Beach bliss experiences Go to Episode S3-10 Top 5 Travel Podcasts Go to Episode S3-22 Phong Nha Caves in depth Go to Episode S3-16 Things NOT always in a tour Go to Episode S3-09 Photographic experiences Go to Episode S3-19 Learn "Greetings" Go to Episode S3-13 Vietnamese Noodles Go to Episode S3-08 Food Adventure Go to Episode S4-25 A fun Guide to droning - Photos Part 3 Go to Episode S4-21 Beyond the Phong Nha caves Go to Episode S4-15 Travelling as a solo woman Go to Episode S4-24 Take beautiful photos Part 2 Go to Episode S4-20 Life changer for singer songwiter Go to Episode S4-14 Con Dao Islands Go to Episode S4-23 Take beautiful photos Part 1 Go to Episode S4-19 Vietnam wins the heart of the daring Go to Episode S4-13 Citizen 44 podswap Go to Episode S4-22 Trekking in Sapa A wide lens view Go to Episode S4-17 Vietnam Traveller Insights 2022 Go to Episode S4-12 Contemporary Art in Vietnam Go to Episode S5-E27 – Discovering Catholic treasures in Vietnam Go to Episode S5-E23 Caving and Trekking in Phong Nha’s Tu Lan Cave System Go to Episode S5-E19-Facelift and Dental surgery Vietnam – A good news story Go to Episode S5-E26 Wellness Tourism in Vietnam Go to Episode S5-E22 10 things travellers may not know about Vietnam Go to Episode S5-E17 Motorbike Riding in Vietnam tips and adventures Go to Episode S5-E25 Hoi An in Focus - ten things to love Go to Episode S5-E21 Vietnam Tet Holiday - Preparation and Tips for Tourists Go to Episode S5-E16 Smart phone apps and tech tip Go to Episode S5-E24 Ha Giang Insider tips for an Unforgettable Adventure Go to Episode S5-E20 Saigon Unseen The sights you might be missing Go to Episode S5-E15 Yen Bai Luxury in the Heart of Nature Go to Episode

b868f2ec-a4d3-44f8-858f-22a338ceff8eDiscover a world time forgot at Bac Ha markets What About Vietnam - S2-24 Explore the Bac Ha Markets – Rich in colour and tradition Kerry Newsome: [00:00:32] Now, today, I'm going to be talking to you about the Bac Ha markets. Now, this is a region that has fascinated me for a long time, and the reason being that it has so much color to it. I know a little bit about the color aspect being in the flower Hmong people, which the market is really all about. So just to rewind the clock back a little bit to give some context, tell us, Mike, how you first came to visit the Bac Ha markets and like, what attracted you to go there in the first place? Mike Pollock: [00:01:14] Well, the story really begins with Sa Pa. I went to Sa Pa for three days, I knew nothing about Sa Pa. I did zero research on it. I just got on a bus and went up there and I loved it. I was absolutely fascinated by the people. Their wonderful way of life is fascinating. And of course, the landscape and the scenery are just spectacular. So after my three-day trip, after three days, I left Sa Pa for about three weeks. I rearranged my entire life and I ended up spending a great deal of time there. I learned more and more about the region. I made friends with people who are happy to be in the travel business, their tour guides, tour organizers. So that's all you have to go to. You have to go to Bac Ha. So on the first trip to Bac Ha, I was in love with Bac Ha, too. And again, it's a combination of the people, their way of life, and the stunning season. Kerry Newsome: [00:02:28] And as you say, the stunning scenery, the people, because of their beautiful costumes, just the whole landscape, everything there is has got to be for a photographer like yourself, like, oh, wow, I could spend a lot of time here, right? Mike Pollock: [00:02:50] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Kerry Newsome: [00:02:53] Because you see the photos everywhere when anyone is selling Vietnam when you look at a brochure or whatever. I don't know. But you'd swear to God the flower Hmong people were everywhere in Vietnam, not just in the north. Sure. Yeah. Mike Pollock: [00:03:08] And the same thing with photographs of the iconic rice terraces, too. You see the same pictures of the same rice fields all over the Internet. Kerry Newsome: [00:03:18] Exactly. And like when people arrive in Vietnam and they're in Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh and there are 300 million motorbikes, they're not quite the same as the rice field picture, I think. Mike Pollock: [00:03:31] Well, that's another thing, too. I mean, far northern Vietnam is radically different from other urban centers. It's so much different. You know. Kerry Newsome: [00:03:44] It is. Let's dive a little bit deeper now into how do we get to Bac Ha, because it's a trip, isn't it? There's a trip involved. And it's not just getting to Sapa, it's beyond Sapa. Now, you've written a great article on your website, which I'm going to put the link on the episode notes, too. But can you talk to my listeners just about the mode of transport, the best mode of transport and just timings? Do you know how we had a joke before about how long things take? If you could just speak to that, that'd be great. I think everyone would benefit. Mike Pollock: [00:04:23] Well, you hear of a few different options. And, of course, that combines very easily with Sa Pa.. And if you think, of course, both these are districts and provinces, Lao City is the transportation hub of the province. So if you're going to go to Sa Pa. Or you're going to go to Bac Ha, chances are you're going to at least drive through Lao Chi Lao City. So to answer your question, now that I've gone through all that, you have several options. You can take the train up to Lao City, which I believe you know all about. And then from the train station in Lao City, it's very easy to get either a van or a minibus , which is roughly two hours from Lao City Center. You also have the bus option, you can take a bus to the city from Hanoi. And there are a few direct buses running between Hanoi and Bac Ha. There was a night bus for sure, some of us don't really care for nine buses and there's also a daytime bus that runs all the way up to a similar high. So you have a couple of options there. And then, of course, if you're going to combine back and Sa Pa, that's very easy to do with a combination of either public bus and local bus. And there's also a shuttle that runs directly from Sa Pa to Bac Ha every afternoon and Sa Pa to Bac Ha is roughly a three-hour journey. Kerry Newsome: [00:06:12] Ok, and I wanted to bring this up earlier with people because I wanted to set some realities for people in the journey side of things, because if you've done the overnight train and you kind of get out of that train in the morning, and I remember I was pretty shattered. And then the thought of then another two to three hours onto that, that was kind of a bit for me to take on. And I've heard some of the other people that have traveled into this area, they've kind of said, oh, gee, I wish that I sort of got off and been able to chill out for a while, maybe in Sopore itself and maybe have a rest day and then do it the next day or try and add some more time into the day and the whole adventure of the region because I think if you go into these places and you're tired. Your weariness inhibits you from enjoying it to the full max because you just weary and you kind of need to take a breather. No one will tell you the real time in Vietnam is to drive me crazy because I'd say I'd get in a car or a van or know how long it is going to take. And they don't want to tell you that the road is got, you know, twenty-five switchbacks and it's going to take.. Mike Pollock: [00:07:45] You three hours. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Travel overland, travel in and around Vietnam and all of Southeast Asia can be extremely slow. And it is difficult to say exactly how long the journey is going to take, you know, so you have to have some patience there. But the thing about these markets, I should mention this is they start very early in the morning. People are setting up their stalls before sunrise. And the market by the Bac Ha market, in particular, will be very busy by about 10:00 a.m. And then by about noon, people are going home. So the best way to tackle this is to get there the night before. And you sleep there the night before, if you sleep in Bac Ha on Saturday night and they have what they call a night market cultural show, and it's really not so much of a night market, but they do have a stage in the town center run by the little temple downtown, uptown Bac Ha. And every Saturday night there's a performance of not just Hmong people, but also to forget all the ethnic groups that get on the stage and their full costume. And they do a dance show. And I don't think this is really a tourist-orientated thing. They just they're really the people that are really into the culture. We've talked about this before. Mike Pollock: [00:09:16] They're very into the traditional costume, traditional music, traditional instruments, a traditional dance. So anyway, so you get to Bac Ha the night before you get up early, get to the market early before it gets too crowded, particularly if you're a photographer. This is key. You want to get to the market before it gets crowded and before the sun gets too high in the sky so that you can get some nice clean images, and have some nice light. And then depending on your interest, a couple of hours in the market might be enough, and then what you can do is head to the north of Bac Ha anywhere and back our head up north towards the border of China. And the scenery is just absolutely beautiful. And that's easy to do. You can rent a motorcycle if you're qualified to do so. You can hire someone to drive you around on a motorcycle you could hire or car. You can even do some of it. If you're a little bit adventurous by public transportation or buses that run north of the city, that'll get you to a foreign city. If you're into trekking, you can hire a local guide to take your truck in or you can go trek around by yourself. But the district is absolutely beautiful. It's a typical rural Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: [00:10:37] So, you know, good lead in to just talking about Hmong people, because everything I've read is that this Sunday's a big day for them, isn't it? They come from far and wide and the women in particular dress up, if that's the word, in the traditional costumes. So talk to us a little bit about what they sell, what they try. You know how the gig actually, guys, what can I expect to say? Mike Pollock: [00:11:08] Ok, well, if you read any Vietnamese travel articles or travel blogs about these markets, what it translates into English, it always translates into fair. People say there's a Sunday fair in Bac Ha and that's kind of what it is. And you're exactly right. That Hill people not just from Bac Ha but they'll come from neighboring Hoang Su Phi, Ha Giang Province. They'll come from a long area to go to this market exactly, and they will trade many traditional things. livestock where they trade buffalo, horses, goats, pigs, chickens, ducks, that sort of thing. But they also sell handmade farming equipment. I mean, these people are farmers. They might have a side job of some sort, but somewhere during the day, they're going to do some farming. And the Hmong people are famous for making steel implements that range anything from a knife to a machete. They are the working part of a wooden plow, the steel pulled behind a buffalo. So there's a lot of traditional handmade tools in addition to the clothing that we've talked about, the cloth of the dye, the thread necessary to make these products all kinds of local potions, Kerry Newsome: [00:12:34] Happy water, Mike Pollock: [00:12:35] Happy water. Yeah, we can talk about a lot of water and people come and people come to the market and they make a day out of it themselves. The food stalls are always full, chock full of locals eating fall or whatever it is. And it is a big day out for them too. You'll see the little children running around getting ice cream and dads having a little hot water while mothers sell corn or whatever it is. It's a big day for the people. You know, it's not even the tourists who go to these things. It's not really directed at the tourists. It's a local thing. Kerry Newsome: [00:13:18] And that kind of for me, begs the question on how to best experience that from a language perspective, because sometimes when I go to these places, especially because I try and get there early before the typical busload arrives and like we don't know in the future with covid, et cetera, maybe they won't be big busloads like they used to be. It kind of crosses our fingers on that one. But like, when you do get there, I almost feel like a bit of an invader because like I say, I've got blond hair, so I stand out like the proverbial and but when I get in there, I do feel a little bit noticeably. A tourist, and then I feel like I'm kind of inviting in this space. Do you recommend going with a guide to get a better experience or language-wise? It's a little bit tricky. Mike Pollock: [00:14:21] I, I will hire guides to go to markets on occasion. And the main reason is just the language barrier because I really do want to have a chat with people. I really want to find out exactly what that funny-looking herb is that they're selling on the table. You know, you see the potions in the powders. I should have put your picture, but you know that you have these strange exotic herbs and tree bark and mushrooms and powders and more happy water. And I want to know exactly what this is. So it is useful to have a guide, Kerry Newsome: [00:15:03] In the soup. I always ask that question because, you know, let's just let's identify what I'm talking about. And I'm not a big fan of blood, bone, blood, anything that starts with blood. That's when I have a steak. It's well done so I can have it all. Mike Pollock: [00:15:28] But the thing is that any of these markers that you go to, you don't need to go into that section. You don't need to go to the butcher shop. You can stay in the vegetable market or it's nice. Kerry Newsome: [00:15:39] But if you want a snack and you want to have some soup and it kind of smells OK, but then. You know, Mike Pollock: [00:15:50] I think you don't fight, they give you order chicken soup when we say guy, you're getting chicken soup, it's time to bring this to the big mystery, Kerry Newsome: [00:16:03] All right. So suggestion wise is that. Yes, definitely get it. God, I mean, I. I always get a guide for language reasons. And because I think that they can just give you some insights that you wouldn't pick up on otherwise, you know, you're going to look at it with very Western eyes, but they're going to say, oh, well, that means that. And, you know, they can give some reference points, I think, that is most helpful. Mike Pollock: [00:16:31] Yeah, I agree with you for sure. Kerry Newsome: [00:16:34] All right. So when we're talking about, you know, things to buy for a Westerner, OK, we're not going to take any shovels or picks home with us. I'm certainly not riding any buffaloes or, you know, they're not doing trick or treat like that. So what am I going to be looking to buy as a souvenir. To take home. Mike Pollock: [00:17:02] Well, there are a number of stalls in these markets that cater specifically to tourists, tourist trinkets, many of which you will have already seen in Hanoi. But there are a lot of traditional handcrafts produced there that are traditional and handmade. And what you need to do is just look at the product before you buy it. Obviously, if it looks like it was made in a factory, it probably was. If it looks like grandmother made it at home, you know, it's very soft. It's got a little layer of dust on it. You know, that's a product that's handmade, handmade cloth, hand-done embroidery. I think you can figure it out. And if you dig through these stalls, you'll find a tremendous amount of traditional pieces. You just have to kind of scan around to look around a little bit. But I know since you mentioned that I don't have the proper name for it, but the Hmong flutes, you've probably seen pictures of the musical instruments you can buy. Those are so nice. That's a nice souvenir among musical instruments. Kerry Newsome: [00:18:15] Yeah, I have bought bedspreads. They are spectacular color-wise. You know, they buy and hang them up and you can go through and you choose the ones you want. And I kind of have a laugh with people like the ones where the threads are hanging out and there's probably a good chance that when you wash it the first time it'll fall apart. The authentic ones. If you wanted to stay together, you're probably better over that stall where it's probably made in a giant factory. You know, there are pluses and minuses, but I still have it because I love it, because when I touch it and I smell whatever, I feel like I was really bad. So, it does have some beautiful memories, but I wash it very, very carefully. Very delicately. All right. Let's just talk about times of the year, because another fascinating fact about Vietnam, which I think always seems to faze people, is that everyone thinks that Vietnam is hot all year round and they kind of just, what, Vietnam over and say, oh, you know, it's that hot. Yet I think you're going to agree with me in the north. It gets bloody cold all over. Mike Pollock: [00:19:50] They had a brutal winter last year. Kerry Newsome: [00:19:54] Certainly in this particular area in Sapa, it can get to freezing. It can get to snow. Mike Pollock: [00:20:03] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Basically in December, well into March, it is winter and it can be very cold, windy, and it can also be extremely foggy. Yes. What we call black fog or you or you can see 50 meters in front of you and that's about it. And the fog will get so thick and it basically starts to drizzle and everything is covered and covered in a mist. So the wintertime can be challenging. Yeah. Kerry Newsome: [00:20:38] And I think that missing all that fog that you talk about was something I didn't count on, and I think for a photographer that might strike you a bit crazy with the fog because you can't say 50 feet in front of you. Mike Pollock: [00:20:54] Well, yeah, the weather, in general, is very challenging there. But that's also sort of the magic of the place as well. You know, you wake up and it's your blanket in fog and mist and maybe a little bit of drizzle. And by noon, the sun is out and shining and it's extremely hot. And then the cycle repeats itself in the afternoon. Yes, the weather makes travel there interesting and it can make it a bit challenging. So like I said, winter times are tough and you need to bring warm clothes. You need to dress in layers and wear some kind of outer waterproof shell, carry an umbrella. Kerry Newsome: [00:21:34] Yeah, but if we're talking around that kind of march through til, what would we say, June, July, that's pretty pleasant, isn't it? Mike Pollock: [00:21:47] Yeah, I would say April is kind of the threshold. March can be, as I said, very challenging. But once you're in April, things are looking good. But then you have to remember that by June you're in the rainy season and it can be very, very wet there and during the rainy season. Kerry Newsome: [00:22:07] So peak times to visit, we should say, April. Mike Pollock: [00:22:12] And April, May and October, November, Kerry Newsome: [00:22:18] October, Mike Pollock: [00:22:19] November. Yeah, I like it. Well, September, you have all the rice. The rice is maturing and you have the beautiful rice fields, so I love September, but there's a good chance you're going to get a little wet now and again. Did you notice all the ladies in all carry an umbrella? Everybody carries an umbrella. I do, too, because when it's not raining, the sun comes up, the sun cooks the back of your neck, you break out your umbrella. Kerry Newsome: [00:22:48] It is genius. And I'm all for it. And you don't look, in some countries, they would kind of think you're a bit of a bit of a nut case. But in Vietnam, not a problem. I do it in a lot of places because you're right, it's handy for the wet when it just does a downpour for 20 minutes and then it's gone and the same when the sun comes out and with my skin. I gotcha on that one. Look for some areas a little bit around back that I did a little bit of research on. You mentioned the temple and and the and the Saturday night features, but there's a few little places around back. How did you venture further into those areas? Mike Pollock: [00:23:38] You see a significant portion of the district. As we mentioned earlier, there's many certainly America's most famous. And then there's a Saturday market about 19 kilometers to the north and Can Cau. But there's markets there, small markets every day. There's interesting markets. So I think six days a week. So you can if you missed the Sunday market, there's a Tuesday market in Coc Ly For example, Kerry Newsome: [00:24:08] I was going to mention Coc Ly. Mike Pollock: [00:24:09] Coc Ly’s setting. It's absolutely beautiful. It's off the main road. It's absolutely stunning season scenery. And you can combine that with hiring a car and driver, for example, take it from Sa pa to Coc Ly and then to Bac Har and make a road trip out of it. And there's another market on Wednesday, a market up by Si Ma Cai which is very worth doing as well. They have a nice buffalo market anyway. But as I mentioned before, these markets start early in the morning. So you get going early in the morning. You do a couple hours of the market and then you continue on and you can do some more sightseeing or trekking and explore the district. Kerry Newsome: [00:24:57] At your leisure, Mike Pollock: [00:24:58] At your leisure, exactly. Kerry Newsome: [00:25:01] So would you allow it properly, would you allow two nights, three nights? Mike Pollock: [00:25:07] Oh, easily. I could do that easily. And the other interesting thing about that is that for the weekend, markets are very well known. They're very popular. The town is quite busy. But Monday through Friday, the town itself is very, very quiet. If you want to escape the hustle and bustle, that's the place to do it. It's a very relaxing, quaint little town. Kerry Newsome: [00:25:32] So would you say this is the kind of thing that a family could do, like, you know, like a young family, you know, like, I think it's definitely a family thing to do and kids and anyone would just find it fascinating or do you? Mike Pollock: [00:25:49] Absolutely. I come across many, many families. And Bac Ha, you know, a lot of a lot of people do organize tours or I do have a car and driver, and it's very common to see families traveling that way. Kerry Newsome: [00:26:06] I would, however, suggest for people with, you know, like any difficulties as far as walking or, you know, they're not they're not good with the kind of endurance in heat if if if they're going at that time of year, maybe they take a Good car and I can drop them around a few places. Mike Pollock: [00:26:29] Well, the market in town is not an issue. It's in the infrastructure that surrounds the town. So there's no problem walking around there whatsoever. As far as the heat goes, as I already mentioned, you really want to get there early because the markets are done by and by high noon when the sun is cooking and Bac Ha can be very hot. We talk about holding it in the winter. In the summertime, it's pretty hot. So you want to get out early before it gets too hot. So some of the other markets could be a little bit challenging if you have some mobility issues. Yeah, not necessarily a deal breaker, but you have to maybe choose accordingly. Kerry Newsome: [00:27:19] Yeah, for sure. For sure. Let's talk just a little bit as we kind of finish off the episode, just about accommodation in the area. You and I had a bit of a laugh about home and just how liberally that that term gets shared around. So talk to us about it. Stay there. It's not, it doesn't have to be expensive. But just so people can manage their expectations about home status and accommodation, can you talk to us a little bit about your experiences there? Mike Pollock: [00:27:52] Yeah, well, there's the issue with the homestays that it's used to describe a big variety of accommodations. It's used literally: a homestay could be living in a traditional house the size of the mountain or you're sleeping on the floor with the chickens. Or it could be more like a guest house or whatever the United States we would call a motel. So, yeah, it varies widely. Generally speaking, I sleep in the hotels in the back of town. There's there's quite a few of them. They're very typical Asian Vietnamese style budget accommodations. They're very inexpensive, but they're very simple. And it makes it easy. Roll out of bed. You're at the market. If you go to the market, you need a little break. Very easy to find a place to have a coffee or a bowl of soup, as we mentioned earlier, run back to the hotel to get fresh batteries for my care or something like that. But surrounding the town itself, yes, there's many, many home stays and they really do range. There's a big range of homestays, I guess you have to choose your home state wisely, do some research on it. Kerry Newsome: [00:29:08] I know because I work with a tour company out of Hanoi and we have people who say to us, oh, no, we want to have the real authentic experience. We want to. And we tried to say, well, yes, we can do, but please understand that. And it's really hard to get a visual or give people a visual of just how humble some of these are, because you're talking about people's homes, how they live is how they kind of invite you into their typical home. So I always try to emphasize to people to get a real understanding of what that authenticity is. Can look and feel like when really you want a hot shower and a comfortable bed after a day out exploring, so I don't know whether you've actually invited friends, if your soul or shared home, stay home, stay indoors with people. But you're right, it's from one level of the needle to the other as far as, you know, what you can experience with home stays in that region in particular. Mike Pollock: [00:30:26] Yeah, a true home state. I said the traditional home state is just a couple steps above camping. Kerry Newsome: [00:30:34] Yeah, not even as good. Mike Pollock: [00:30:37] Know you are you're still you're sleeping on a bamboo mat, which is local style bamboo mat, Kerry Newsome: [00:30:44] Perhaps no chickens on my camping trip. Mike Pollock: [00:30:47] Ha ha ha ha ha. Kerry Newsome: [00:30:49] Right now, I leave them at home. Mike Pollock: [00:30:52] I will say one thing about the hot water, though. Anybody in North Vietnam who's serious about doing any sort of homestay has built a structure. Separate from the main house that contains a shower with hot water and a western toilet and a proper sink, pretty much every home stay in that area is going to have those basic amenities because the locals like hot water too. Kerry Newsome: [00:31:21] Yeah, and I think it's good to mention Western toilets because, you know, South East Asia is not always famous for Western toilets. So I like to hear that there's more and more Western toilets in that region. So that's good to know. Mike, just to finish off, I've been asking my guests recently to give me a word to describe travel and what it means to you. I mean, we're sitting in a very different world at the moment. You're sitting in Bac Ha. I'm sitting in Australia. And neither of us can go anywhere, but we're still both lap travel. So if I was to ask you what your word is, what would your word be? And then I'll tell you what mine is. Describe putting you on the spot. Yeah. What it means to you, what it means to you. What does travel mean to you? In a word. Mike Pollock: [00:32:20] In what word? In one word or one…..Discovery. Kerry Newsome: [00:32:28] Discovery. I like it. Why discovery? Mike Pollock: [00:32:33] Well, that's what you're doing, aren't you, even if you go to a place that's been well traveled, many, many people have been there before you, you're just going to new to you. You're discovering all this for yourself for the first time. Kerry Newsome: [00:32:49] Great work. Love it, and I think what I miss most about travel is discovery and certainly at times nicely with my word, which is revived. One of the reasons I'm doing this podcast is I want to revive people's spirit in the form of discovering new places, new cultures, new food. And so revive is my word. And I'm trying to revive and keep that spirit alive in people. So with the help of people like you who came discoverers, I'm hoping to do that for Vietnam might. Lovely to have you on the program. Really great to get some some insights into the Bac Ha markets. I've learnt a lot and I'm sure my listeners have as well. So thanks for being on the show. Mike Pollock: [00:33:45] Thank you very much. Have a great day.

S4-14 Con Dao Islands Con Dao Islands with Conor Kelly Eprisode 14 S4-14 Con Dao Islands 00:00 / 30:31 My guest describes this destination as, “it's probably my favorite spot in Vietnam, and maybe ever, just due to its complexity and beauty”. Today we take a deep dive into the Con Dao Islands with Conor Kelly. Conor shares with us a short break he took to the Islands and some of the things that took him by surprise. It’s great to welcome Conor back to the show. We have worked together before on his own Podcast called The Comeback, where I was the guest. While Conor has high praise for the islands, as we explored the activities during his stay more deeply we discovered some of islands dark history and limitations. We unpacked the “how to get there” travel experience, and how much time you should allow for a stay. If I could call this show the “reality Check-in to Con Dao” I would. As while it features some of the best beaches in Vietnam, it is not geared for the tourist looking for some serious beach side bar and restaurant action, similar to that of Danang, Phu Quoc or Nha Trang. If you are the luxury traveller, this place has your name on it. As it features a stunning Six Senses resort. For those seeking a restful quiet chilled-out stay, Con Dao should be your first choice. Ranked No. 1 Best Resort In Southeast Asia. Travel + Leisure World's Best Awards 2021 No matter what your budget, if you are starting to investigate beach side holidays in Vietnam, Con Dao will come up, and it is the perfect “get away” from it all. So, bring a good book or a good podcast and enjoy. Time stamps to follow 4.43 The “hidden gem” aspect of the islands 7.01 First impressions 11.11 The accommodation scale 12.29 Nobody knows you are here – the feeling of isolation 16.30 Discovering the islands “things to do” 19.15 “The war place” 23.09 The food experience 24.57 “Time out” – how long is long enough? 27.11 Must do’s and don’ts – Watch for flights in and out Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

Vietnam travel podcasts featuring stories and interviews about the culture of Vietnam Cultural S1-07 8 Tips for travel during Tet Go to Episode S1-06 Culture and Visas Go to Episode S1-01 Vietnam Travel Planning Go to Episode S2-24 Explore Bac Ha Markets Go to Episode S2-07 Hoi An Top 10 must dos Go to Episode S2-14 Social Enterprise Travel Go to Episode S2-04 Tam Ky and Tam Thanh Beach Go to Episode S2-05 Explore Mai Chau Go to Episode S2-06 Top 5 Photography locations Go to Episode S4-22 Trekking in Sapa A wide lens view Go to Episode S4-16 Mystical Ninh Binh Go to Episode S4-07 Hue the city Past Present Future Go to Episode S4-21 Beyond the Phong Nha caves Go to Episode S4-12 Contemporary Art in Vietnam Go to Episode S4-05 Nha Trang 10 best things Go to Episode S4-18 Luxury Brand Travel Experiences Go to Episode S4-10 Hanoi A Foodies Paradise P2 Go to Episode S4-01 Art in Vietnam Go to Episode S4-17 Vietnam Traveller Insights 2022 Go to Episode S4-09 Hanoi A Foodies Paradise P1 Go to Episode S3-23 Your next wellness destination Go to Episode S3-07 Positive tourism Go to Episode S3-11 Saigons Covid Recovery Outlook Go to Episode S3-04 Dishes of Danang Go to Episode S3-10 Top 5 Travel Podcasts Go to Episode S3-03 Saigon HCMC Districts Go to Episode S3-09 Photographic experiences Go to Episode S3-02 Mu Cang Chai Go to Episode S5-E27 – Discovering Catholic treasures in Vietnam Go to Episode S5-E22 10 things travellers may not know about Vietnam Go to Episode S5-E12 Out and About in Mui Ne - Laying bare the winds of change Go to Episode S5-E25 Hoi An in Focus - ten things to love Go to Episode S5-E21 Vietnam Tet Holiday - Preparation and Tips for Tourists Go to Episode S5-E7 - The Rise of Vietnam's Unique Dining Experiences Go to Episode S5-E24 Ha Giang Insider tips for an Unforgettable Adventure Go to Episode S5-E20 Saigon Unseen The sights you might be missing Go to Episode S5-E6 Explore the ‘Land of Lychees’ – Bac Giang Go to Episode S5-E23 Caving and Trekking in Phong Nha’s Tu Lan Cave System Go to Episode S5-E18 Hanoi Below the Surface Go to Episode S5-E5 Hai Van Pass Experience from a seasoned traveller Go to Episode

22d51e23-8e77-4448-b2e9-230c6f281ad0The best locations in Vietnam for photographic scenic delights. Top 5 travel photography locations in Vietnam Episode 6 Top 5 travel photography locations in Vietnam 00:00 / 36:31 If there's one thing I know about travel, it's that we all love to take photographs. We all want to record those special moments in time so that we can revisit them later on and share them with our family and friends. But finding the best vantage points is a key component. Today, I'm going to be talking to someone who knows a lot about this subject, as he runs his own photo tours all through Southeast Asia, but in particular, his favorite spot is Vietnam. Etienne Bossot joins me on this podcast as he reveals the Top 5 photography locations in Vietnam that a traveller with an interest in travel photography should seek out. Etienne is well known in Vietnam as someone who knows a lot about this subject, as he runs his own photo tours all through Southeast Asia, but in particular, his favorite place is Vietnam. In particualr Hoi An. Etienne shares his tips on how to handle taking photos of people and how by driving just five to 10 kilometers outside of town, like Hoi An you are 20 years behind Hoi An. You suddenly reach this countryside where people have never seen a tourist before. For the budding photographer its a must listen to show. Check out some of his photos here on this page. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

f9b791be-473a-40c9-aff8-10fae46871a0Phil Hoolihan takes us beyond the tourist tracks What About Vietnam - Series 2-15 Find out more about Sapa as we go beyond the tourist tracks Kerry: To set the scene for my next guest, Phil Hoolihan. Phil lives in the Sapa region, I've said region as Phil will explain a bit more about that later. Phil came to Vietnam from the UK about 20 years ago on a science project, studying biodiversity, he went back to the UK after that, but only to return after he completed his degree. I find out a bit further that he had many trips in that time back and forth and probably chewed up most of that three-year degree time in Vietnam, as it says, Phil is going to give us a very grassroots take on the Sapa that features regularly in most extended tours to Vietnam. And he's going to do that versus what I keep calling and referring to the extended region, because usually the snapshot view or the snapshot tour, two to three days tour set that you will get on an extended tour, doesn't take into consideration the region that Phil's going to talk about. He's also going to talk to us more about the ethos of the region and what compelled him to stay on and add to that. The social enterprise he is involved with means we're going to soon find out that there's more to Sapa than you think. So, Phil if I could say..”great to have you on the show let's just say I'm in Hanoi and I've just bought a three-day, two-night trip to Sapa, just from a local at a desk, as you know, there's many of them in Hanoi, talk us through what that will look like. So, I'm going to get the train up, coach back as I understand from the ticket and I'm staying in a hotel in Sapa. So, talk to us a little bit about what that would look like for your average, Joe. Phil: Well, I think it's a great start to the area. I think the train itself is a big part of the experiential travel, although it's longer and more expensive than alternative forms of transport as it happens. It's a big part of this area's history. I mean, it was originally built by the French in the early 19th century. It's something that I feel brings you into an area in a unique way to sleep on a train overnight, but a lot of people come up here because of the diverse landscape, and rich culture. And I think generally it's these two elements that make North Vietnam so fascinating for many travelers, that combination of incredible scenery, potentially it often rains, it's frequently foggy and the culture, which of course is there regardless of the weather, fortunately! Kerry: But what am I going to be doing on that three days and two nights? Because the train is usually an overnight train, the time I did it, as you rightfully say, it's a cute trip. As long as you don't get a snorer to share with in your 4 berth cabin. And so, if you get a snorer in there, it's a little bit harrowing, but yeah, you're right, it's neat. The train is a really good entry point, so what happens from there? Phil: Well, generally, I mean, a lot of people think when you're arriving on the train, you're actually in Sapa, the train arrives about one hour away from Sapa in a city called Lao Chai and then it's a minibus or a pickup from there up to your hotel or accommodation in Sapa. And it's a real mix, I mean, the town has grown, I mean, I think there's many positives to the growth for certainty, one of them is the range of accommodation available now from budgets three, $4 a night, backpacker, hostel kind of establishments, right the way through to the high-end four- and five-star rooms. So, generally there's something for everyone in terms of accommodation and food as well. But frequently you'll be picked up by your guide and then most people when they're up in Sapa they are doing some form of Trek and typically those treks follow a certain pattern. If it's a half day event, it will be a village called, Cat Cat which is actually owned by a tour company or alternatively for those doing a day trip or a two-day trip it's to villages called Lai Chau and Ta Van and some people will also visit Ta Phin. So, there's four villages that are very much on the tourist trail and they're comfortable, they've been adapted for us, most of the accommodation has, and again I think most people would welcome this, they have got Western style toilets & hot shower and they offer Wi-Fi. And even the food is perhaps not as traditionally Vietnamese as you might get elsewhere, it's a fusion of Vietnamese or Western dishes. So, all in all its kind of packaged experience that fits your typical traveler in the sense that it aims for that kind of mass tourist, that mid centric person who wants to experience, but wants something comfortable and that's what most people end up doing. Kerry: Yeah, and I mean, if I draw on my own experience you know I felt like it was a well-trodden trail, like including every single stop, every single person as in a local person from a minority group, etc. They kind of were dressed and acting according to the tourists that they were going to be meeting that day, which was us. So, I felt it was a little bit orchestrated and a little bit too finely tuned. And for that I Kind of walked away with Hmm…., is that Sapa? I expected probably a more immersive, more authentic, maybe a bit more raw than I got and that kind of threw me a bit. So, since then, of course I've learned a lot and I’ve met people like you, etc. But certainly, I think it's good to talk through for the average person who's trying to fit a lot in, on a trip. You know, they think, they bought 14 days, but they're going to do an extra three days on a trip like this to Sapa. I think sometimes they want to just get in and get out and that's Kind of, to me, I don't know what your thoughts are, but that's Kind of doing Sapa and the region a disservice because the snapshot you're getting is Kind of what I'm just talking about. Superficial...Would you agree? Phil: It's too well oiled, I mean, the very fact that you mentioned there a tour, it feels like a package. It feels like the places you're walking to and the conversations you're having and the food you're eating has been pre-organized, it feels very much like that. And you know what, there are certain people who appreciate that, I'm not one of them actually. But it's simply down to a little bit of background, I mean, the larger group of visitors to Sapa are actually the Vietnamese Kinh you know, migrant Kinh workers dominate the paid employment. They run the tour companies fundamentally, and they like that Kind of tourism. They want to know where they are going to be, everything's itinerized to a point with which prior to your trip, you could even be given a menu, this is what you'll be eating on day three or day two, for instance. Well, you know, to contextualize what you've just said, those three villages, I mentioned earlier, Cat Cat, Lao Chai and Tavan, I haven't visited either of those places for years. Kerry: In 20 years. Phil: I have, I've been to all of them, but I very, very infrequently visit. I've not been to Cat Cat since I worked there 20 years ago, I haven't been there. It's not somewhere, I think it fits with myself or the audience that I prefer to talk to in Sapa, which is a little bit more sustainably orientated, a little bit more free in terms of what they want to do and the keyword is more authentic. Kerry: Yes, and with that authenticity as I want to remind people, is that they can't expect all the comforts of home with that. And I think that's where the cross section of people comes to, as in there's some people that go, oh, you know, for a couple of nights, that's fine, I can hack that. But then there's the others that go, oh, no, that's not what I bargained for and, you know, struggle. You know, they're tired, they've done a trek in the respect of, you know, some hours walking up those Hills, etc. And they're exhausted and they want all those comforts of home to come back to. And I think that's definitely on offer in Sapa as we've agreed. But I think what I'd like to take time with you today is to talk about beyond that region, you know, that more immersive aspect to the region. Because it's not as well-known and it's not as well publicised, because it is that social enterprise community kind of type sharing. And as you said, you know, the tours that you offer aren't for everybody, you know, it's not for everybody, but I want you to talk about it. So, people are at least aware of it so that they can say, hey I think that's more me rather than the more structured, more tailor-made more westernized tour. So, talk to us a little bit about beyond Sapa, talk to us about homestays that are real homestays and your interacting with the real locals. Phil: Well, I think if you look across the country nationally, you've got 13 national parks. I think there's eight UNESCO world heritage sites, and there's more in the pipeline. But one thing that stands out to me is these 53 ethnic minority groups. I believe there are more, there's also the Kinh the main ethnic group. And interestingly, we work with a lot of those ethnic minorities. And if you talk to them, they typically value nature, they enjoy being outdoors and they value that post-contact with the land and resources they grow and forage. Now, I think this is something that can be reflected very, very effectively in tourism, if you're with them and experiencing their life, inevitably, you are in nature and you're living this kind of simple hand to mouth existence with you. Now, I hope that a lot of visitors to Sapa can find and the wider region, of course, but can find this immersive, sustainable travel, this experiential style of travel far more rewarding. I mean, to a point with which many people have told me that being here is life-changing which I think is a fantastic compliment to this area. But you know, what you've got in Sapa I believe is a mountainous area, one and a half thousand meters above sea level, about six hours from Hanoi by bus. And you've got a temperate climate and that is appealing because it's better to walk in a tropical jungle. You've also got an incredible history, you've got charming little villages and beautiful scenery, but I think the key thing is how will that reflect in people's interpretation of this area? We chose Sapa primarily because the ease of access to 16 ethnic minorities in the region. And I don't mean within walking distance, some of those are three or four hours away by motorbike, but that is the heritage that this area offers. And I think that's something that often goes undervalued. If, for example, you get a Kinh Vietnamese guide who was raised in Hanoi, went to a university in Hanoi, learnt their history and culture from a book, as opposed to someone who was born here lives here can understand how to forage and collect. So, you mentioned earlier about the homestays and I mean, I've got a strange story that happened probably about two, three years ago now. And it was actually an older couple from Wales, they wrote to us in advance and said, you know, we'd like to do a challenging trek. We have three days, one day, we'd like to go on a motorbike trip and the other two were looking for something really authentic, really traditional they said a hard trek. So, we offered them a few different choices, but left it open in the sense that when they arrived, your walk distance, your level of challenge, what you eat, where you stay is all open. I mean, it's certainly not fixed beforehand because of the fluidity of the trip. And they ended up doing a lot less than they anticipated. If I'm overly harsh, I'd describe them as morbidly obese, they certainly weren't the kind of people to do a long, hard trek. We've got a fairly interesting call probably around an hour into the walk from the guide, these people aren't going to make it to lunch she said, they're just not going to get there, you know, she was panicking a little bit. So, we interjected, we spoke to the couple who were very open, they were lovely, and they said they were finding it hard and we talked to the guy and she said, oh, I'll find somewhere near here where we can have lunch, which was great. So, they went in the house, they cook their traditional food together, which they thoroughly enjoyed. And what they realized is the destination, the homestay they had in mind was just not achievable. We said, maybe you could come back into town and get a hotel, but they were determined, they wanted to stay overnight. And we said, right, two choices, it will be where you are now or you can continue to walk a little bit and find somewhere in that area to stay, which they opted for. So, they did their trip, we called them in the evening, everything's fine. They've got a homestay; they were staying in a local home and of course they are extremely traditional. It's a working farm, your cockerels and pigs wandering around; the bed is a sprung bamboo homemade bed, you do get a blanket, but there's no hot shower, there is no bathroom. In fact, many homestays don't even have toilets. That's how authentic they are, but they assured us everything was great. And they came back the next day and they raved about the experience. They said the food was delicious, the guide was knowledgeable. They thoroughly enjoyed it, but and this is the key here, when they wrote their review, it wasn't quite the same. And this to me is fascinating it was a four-star review, they thoroughly enjoyed it. It was a good review and they listed everything they thoroughly enjoyed, but they did describe the homestay is extremely challenging, I appreciate that. What they anticipated is that I think in their phraseology, they simply imagined it to be like a little boutique hotel. We normally stay in four- and five-star establishments, we thought a home stay would be a room or a hot shower, private suite. Now, to be honest, I had sent them videos, we had emailed them, and we even sent them photographs quite how they'd missed all of that, I don't know. But what they described the homestay, perhaps a little bit harshly was medieval. They said it was like staying in a cow shed. Now to some degree, I can understand that I've stayed in these homestays. I know you have; they are extremely basic. Kerry: Raw, that's what I was saying before, very raw. Phil: And that's for many people, you know, sat by the fire with a local family who speak very little English, communicating through the guide, eating local food, helping prepare, talking to the kids drinking rice wine. That experience is absolutely what they want. Well, that's something Sapa can offer, but what this couple did I believe is make a small mistake in not quite understanding the variety of homestays, whether that was their problem, I'm not quite sure because elsewhere in Vietnam, as I'm sure you're aware a homestay, something totally different, it is a boutique hotel go and stay in a homestay in Hoi An. It's absolutely not a home, it's a functional little boutique hotel. Well, these homestays are homes, they are homes you stay in. It's what I believe a homestay to be. And they can be challenging, they can be wonderful. But it's something that I think is important to discuss with whoever you arrange your Sapa trip with. Of course, you can do the authentic option, but there are other options that are more comfortable. Kerry: And I think, you know, this is what it means about meeting expectations and understanding, you know, when you buy that ticket that train trip, that coach back that two nights stay, you know, if it says a homestay, the traveler is possibly best to ask some more questions about that homestay, because if they've just come from Hoi An and they've stayed in a homestay, their expectation could be immediately that it's going to be replicated in Sapa. And we've had many a traveler that has been in shock that they would be expected to stay in accommodation of that kind. So, whilst you're talking about the authenticity side of it and the immersive side of it and being able to be part of a family, they're not there for show, they actually live there, they function there every single day and that they've invited you into their home. That is not for everyone, that is just definitely not for everyone. Phil: Well, I've also heard it the other way round. I mean, I've also heard it where people have arrived expecting authenticity, and they've actually ended up in quite a large group in a purpose-built hostel in the middle of a touristy village and they too are disappointed. Kerry: Disappointed, yes. Phil: It all depends, it's absolutely due diligence. It's preparation it’s asking the right questions and finding the right answers. And I think that's absolutely critical to enjoying your experience in this region. Kerry: Absolutely, talk to us a little bit more Phil, about the social enterprise side of what you do. I really got a lot out of our previous discussion when you were talking about just how, some of the things that you do give back to the community, and I'm really keen for you to talk and expand a bit more on that. Phil: It's a challenging area. I mean, again, I'm talking beyond Sapa now, but you've got a number of ethnic minorities that actually number millions. I mean, you know, they,stretch over five Northern provinces and actually there's a lot of historical issues beginning during the French colonial period where they were kind of supporting the French in growing and trading opium. Obviously that trade has disappeared now in order to monitor and to control that trade these tribes that were historically nomadic were forced to fix and live-in permanent settlements. And that's not how they've traditionally lived, and they found that adaptation really challenging. They went from being semi-nomadic, shifting cultivators, self-sustainable to being in their way trapped and poor, to be honest, they've never recovered. And during the Vietnam, American war, because of perceived persecution by the Vietnamese prior, they were actually recruited by the CIA and ended up siding with the Americans during the war, which had a large impact post-war. You know, if you imagine it from a Vietnamese, these people were seen as rebels and outlaws. So, what you have is what I would phrase as marginalization that can perpetuate in racism. You get people who are treated differently and do act differently, they value different things in society. So, what you tend to find is most people over the age of, let's say 27, 28 years old, never went to school because there were no schools. That means if they are in Europe, they're illiterate. And that's challenging, very challenging when you try and find employment, be in tourism or otherwise, if you walk into any job being illiterate, you find yourself often deemed unemployable. So, what you find is in this area, even though the ethnic minorities are the majority, you know, it's a strange way of terming things, but there are more of them than there are Vietnamese Kinh. The Kinh own the businesses, they own everything, all the homestays, all the restaurants, all the tour companies. Kerry: When you talk about Vietnamese Kinh, tell me what does that mean, is that a rural person, but not a minority group? Phil: They are the majority, so they are the biggest ethnic group in Vietnam, I think they make up about 90% of the population. So, if you're traveling through Vietnam, if you're in Hanoi or Saigon, if you're in Hue or Hoi An, most of the people who live in those urban metropolises are actually Kinh Vietnamese, so they make up big majority. So, the language, the Viet language is actually spoken as their primary language, the Kinh. Whereas these ethnic minorities, they have a different culture, they have different food, different clothing, and their own languages. And this historical marginalization has created poverty, extreme poverty in some cases. And I think that's something that tourism can be a big part of in terms of a solution. If it's done right, our presence can end up providing not only income for otherwise marginalized people, but also acceptance the fact that we are on a trek and staying in a homestay with an ethnic minority person means that we're not judging them on their poverty. We're seeing them as it is, and we're involved with them. And they take real pride in the fact that certainly as travelers, we are choosing those experiences and we're valuing what they offer, there's a great sense of pride. Which in turn helps to support their traditional ways because they understand the value, for instance their language or their clothing, because they know that we enjoy, and we like to learn about that. So, a long time ago, I spoke to a lot of our team who were all from two of the tribes, Muong, and Dao. And we spoke to them about what they thought were the biggest challenges here. They described health, access to employment and we set about trying to find solutions to these. Of course, if you're illiterate, the easiest solution is developed literacy easier said than done. But likewise access to hospital care, you know, I know we had a conversation, a side of our conversation today last week, talking about a young boy who was quite badly burned. Well, the problem his family had is once they arrived in the hospital, they couldn't understand the doctors nor could they fill in the basic forms to allow them to access the hospital, which is where our organization we're able to support, just simple access, access like that. So, I think in terms of tourism, it's great to know that we can come here and enjoy it, whatever type of tourist you are, but at the same time, really support locally. Kerry: Yes. Phil: I don't know if you recall. I mean, did you find that when you were doing your trekking, were you followed by local sellers? Kerry: Yes. Phil: I find that quite challenging because when I'm doing a walk, I don't want to be troubled by having, do we, do we not? Is it right to buy from a child? Should I not? There's too many thoughts when I'm trying to enjoy an experience. The simple reality is those people are selling because it's their only access point to tourism, if they can't get jobs in hotels and restaurants and they're not guides, well where do they earn money? Because they can't grow enough food to eat, so they have to earn an income. The simple solution to me is find and work with them on meaningful employment. They are the guides, they are the homestay owners, they do prepare and grow the food. And as soon as they become integral, then it works. And those sellers begin to dissipate because why would anyone want to follow you for 12 kilometers on a day long trek to maybe sell something, if they could be your guide, do the same walk anyway, and be guaranteed a wage at the end of the day. Kerry: Yeah, exactly. Phil: To me, it's simple. So, you know, my advice here is, when you come to Sapa if you've not booked something in advance, find someone local, find someone is Dao or Muong, someone who's got a good command of the language that you want to communicate in when you trek and make sure that the money is going into the right areas. Kerry: And how do you do that, how do you make sure? I mean, when you've traveled a lot as I know you and I have, you've been to places like India and been haggled and things like that. I found the haggling in Sapa very invasive, I've found it uncomfortable and I felt on the spot. And when you're roaming through that trek, and you've just got this family where children on their back and walking behind you and trying to sell, textiles and things like that. I Kind of felt like it was staged, and I'd rather get the money and go and give it to somewhere where I truly felt it was going to go to the right people. But even though they looked like the right people, they look like the wrong people to give the money to, if there's a way of saying that. And that's a shame because as you say, it is possibly their only way of connecting with a tourist and having the opportunity to earn some money that way. But I think from a tourist perspective, they are more accepting of giving back to the community in ways of buying some of the textiles like, beautiful bedspreads and pillowcases. And I've bought some beautiful pieces, etc. And I bring them home and I love them more than anything because I know the story behind them, I know where I bought it, the woman I bought it from, the village she came from. So, you know, it has much more meaning, but once again I was talking to someone else today and I think there is a perception that everything you do in Vietnam is cheap. So, you know, it's cheap, cheap copy, copy. And everybody expects that they should be getting everything for nickel and dime cheapest chips kind of thing. So, that concept fights hard with the social enterprise who is offering handmade items that are sometimes expensive. They're not out of a little factory somewhere churning out stuff, they are actually handmade. And sometimes, you know, some of the local art that I bought takes months to make one piece and I can feel the shell in the surface, I can feel every inch of that painting, etc. But I had to pay some serious Us dollars for that. And I think that concept is hard for the average tourist to bend their brain around as well. What are your thoughts on that? Phil: Well, I mean, there's two sides to the same story, really. I mean, one is if you were a local seller and you knew that on a given day, there may be four or 500 people arriving and trekking, and they all do the same trek, the same route, where would you go to sell? Of course, they gravitate towards those villages. So, if you end up going to those villages, you will have sellers. And actually, what the sellers have realized is that most of those people are on a fairly tight budget. They've realized that most of them don't really want to buy anything, I mean, why would you want to buy a big blanket and then do a trek carrying this with you. So, they've ended up kind of investing their own time in doing little bit new experiments. There's a lady, Vietnamese lady in town buys huge quantities from China of machine-made textiles. A lot of the Muong and the Dao will wander into town. They'll borrow trinkets from her, borrow them, not buy them. And then what they'll do is loiter around either in the town or in those three villages, I mentioned, and as groups of tourists come, they latch on they'll follow you in the hopes that they can sell, if they do, they'll pay the lady in Sapa and if they don't, they return the objects. Now that's a way of earning a very, very meager income, but I believe it to be negative on every front because you're promoting the purchasing of machine-made fabrics that veer away from tradition, the younger generations are therefore not learning their traditions, which is a major issue. You've also got a poor in my mind, experiential tourism, because we see them as a photo opportunity. They see us as a sales opportunity that isn't rewarding for either party. On the opposite side of that Sapa has, I believe 96 villages and hamlets, go to other areas of the country. Then, instead of seeing, as you as a sales opportunity, if you end up staying with people and eating with people, why do they need to sell to you? Their business is accommodating you; their business is guiding you, that becomes the transaction. And to me, that's more meaningful and it's absolutely available here everywhere you go to anywhere but those three, I'll say four, if you include Ta Phin, villages, that's the experience you'll get. So, we've told all the people we work with at the villages that we work with, this is your tourism industry, not mine. Foreigners who come here have certain expectations, it's important that we make sure that they feel satisfied and comfortable, but at the same time, nobody wants to be followed and harassed. So, we've worked out a simple model, and this is out there publicly. I don't mind if anyone copies it, but in the morning, we buy food from the market, but all the food is bought from locals, local guide, local drivers. We do a walk, or we stop in a local home for lunch. We cook and eat as they do, we share the food together, you continue on your stay in a local home. The following day, you eat lunch in a local home, you come back with a local driver. So, over the course of a typical trip, it could be that six, seven, eight families benefit from you coming well, if they benefit, they don't need to sell you anything. If you ask and you want it's there it's readily available top-quality things, items that they've made cherished with love hand spawn, handle woven, hemp dyed with Indigo, and then embroidered over the course of a year, it's outstanding stuff. You're not going to find that down in the touristy villages. Kerry: No, well, you'll find it, but you'll find it's made in China. Phil: There you go, yeah completely, you're absolutely right. Or printed versions of the same. Kerry: It is, yes and if there's nothing more than I get across with this podcast is trying to give the travelers some insights and educate the future traveler about what to look for. So, that as you say, they can get the experience that they want. So, if it does mean doing a bit of research, listening to this podcast, heaven forbid you know, reaching out to yourself directly, I'm going to be putting all your links in the episode notes, then, you know my job is done because I blindly walked into Sapa and walked away and it took me a couple more goes to see more, to get the benefit of more knowledge and more education. Possibly I was lazy, and I didn't do enough research, but as you say, if you do, it's there, it's available. And as extensive as the area is, I mean, you've mentioned some names of other areas in Northern Vietnam. I mean, I just adore Northern Vietnam, I just think it's that memorable, that every trip I make a point of going to somewhere new in the North. And every time I've never been disappointed. I think if we have done something well today its show them the many sides of Sapa. Phil: And we've won all sorts of awards and I don't say that lightly. I don't necessarily think we've ever tried to get those awards. We've simply had open dialogue with people I respect as friends, constantly. So, my advice generally is to kind of do your own research, find an experience that suits your needs because everybody goes to those three locations. You've got to work out whether those locations are for you. All treks and experiences can be tailored. So, ask your tour company what you would like to do in terms of distance and accommodation. We've talked about even down to food, you know, if you don't eat meat, you're a vegetarian or vegan, of course it's something that we can accommodate as a destination. I'm not talking about our organization. I think it's super important to ask your guide or your company where the money goes, because in an area where 50% of the population are registered as poor, I think it's essential. the income from tourism spreads to more than one individual, more than one company. So, have a look at the literature, have a look at their newsfeed on social media; gauge what they're like as individuals, or as an organization. Are they in tourism purely for profit, or are they involved in community development, village cleanups, education, etc. So, I think that's there if you want it. You mentioned before, it's easy in Sapa to fall into that trap of thinking, oh, well, everyone seems to be offering the same. And I come full circle a little earlier, I mentioned that the Kinh Vietnamese owned most of the tour companies. We did a social experiment some months ago, it was fascinating, we targeted a number of people throughout the town, and they ended up being categorized into three groups, Vietnamese, tribal people, as in the and the Muong and general foreigners, it doesn't matter which country you are from. And what we asked them to do while they were in this region is to come up with the first five words that they thought of while in the area. And I found it fascinating because when we asked foreigners, they came up with the words, culture, forest mountains, heritage, homestay, treks. When we asked the locals, they said, rice, Indigo, forest, Buffalo, friends, farming. There is an overlap, it's a tenuous one, but there is an overlap then the Vietnamese and it was stark. They said, Fanispan, the name of the biggest mountain in Vietnam, Sun World the name of the tour company who owned the cable car up the biggest mountain in Vietnam, Sapa Swing a destination where you can take selfies. Selfie was one of their words when they think of Sapa and the last one, I couldn't believe it, but it's true karaoke. So, what you find with that and the reason I... it's astonishing, isn't it? The reason I raised that point is because culturally you've got a group of people who were organizing tours and, in their mind,, this is a destination for cable cars, selfies, and karaoke. That's not what I want when I come to Sapa. If that's what you want, go to a generic Vietnamese agency and that's what they'll provide. If it's not what you want, you will have to dig a little deeper. Kerry: Yeah, I think Phil that digging a little bit deeper I think we should finish on that. Phil: Yeah. Kerry: That I think is the guts of it, if I can say that. Phil: Yeah, absolutely. Kerry: I think taking it on a superficial level is not the way to go, there is more to Sapa and you just have to dig a bit deeper. Phil, thank you so much for your time. Great to talk to you as always and love what you're doing and look forward to talking to you again soon. Phil: You're welcome, pleasure, thanks for your time today. Kerry: I hope you enjoy this episode, talking about Sapa and the extended region that it is. It offers just such a wide range of experiences, possibly more immersive and authentic than you may have originally thought. I'm truly grateful for Phil's time and the knowledge he shared with us today. I really had no concept of the marginalization in the area and the challenges that brings to local operators trying to make a living from tourism. Hopefully when you start planning a trip to Vietnam, you know, maybe take a bit more time to maybe dig a bit deeper in the areas Phil mentioned just to get that local experience with minority groups in their real habitat. I'll put all the appropriate links in the episode notes, please share, and let us know what you think of the program and how we can improve drop us an email or give us a shout out on our Facebook page until next time.

fdafa5c8-3d69-4212-9948-50f4089dab91Lockdown insights and upcoming travel advice Saigons Covid recovery and tourism outlook 2022 Episode 11 S3-11 Saigons Covid Recovery Outlook 00:00 / 39:15 In todays' world of media there are so many news broadcasters competing for your attention, it’s hard to know which one to trust. 
With the advent of Covid’s most devastating outbreak in Vietnam and Saigon happening in 2021, getting local insights in English has been challenging. Albeit, when many other countries around the world are opening up, it's been hard to comprehend, let alone fully appreciate the ferocity of the Delta variant as it forced Saigon into one of the strongest city lockdowns of the last 20 years.
 Michael Tatarski is my guest and in his role as Editor-in-Chief of Saigoneer, the Vietnamese culture and history website, and author of the Vietnam Weekly newsletter is well respected for his local knowledge and reporting in Vietnam and most particularly Saigon. 

I catch up with Michael just as the October 2021 ease in lockdowns is about to happen. In this episode he talks about what it’s been like during the lockdown from July to October 1st, 2021 and what aspirations and advice he has on travel coming out of the lockdown, both domestically and internationally. It's great having Michael come on the show to give everyone the insights into the behind the news stories of Saigon during this devastating time of hardship. 
 I see this as a historic recording. You may wish to listen to this again before you visit, so you can marvel at the city's resilience and determination. I expect a lot of changes and hopefully most for the good.

 Saigon is a truly vibrant and energetic city bursting with heritage that sits alongside creative eateries, secret alleys, coffee houses, river cruising, artisan shopping and roof top bars, that many a news crew were known to drink at in years gone by. 
When you go to visit Saigon, you may wish to listen to previous episodes talking about the Saigon Nightlife, and Best Districts to visit as great guides to maximise your time there. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S4-22 Trekking in Sapa A wide lens view What About Vietnam - S4-22 A wide lens view of trekking in Sapa [00:00:00] Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to What About Vietnam. Today we're going to be talking about a really interesting area called Sapa. Now if you don't know anything about Sapa, Sapa is located in the north western region of Vietnam. It is an overnight train trip from Hanoi or overnight by bus. And it's just the first point of contact I would think for people coming to Vietnam that want to have a look into the mountainous regions, the very scenic rice terraced fields of Vietnam. Sapa is definitely your first go to place. Today I'm joined with Jack Taylor and Jack's going to take us through this region, the Hoang Lien Son Mountains. And we're going to talk about trekking in this region. He's done some serious trekking and as you're going to see with his cinematography, which is the focus of his trip, you're going to get some really great handy information and tips if you are thinking of going trekking in the Sapa region. The other aspect is he talks about his interaction with the various hill tribes such as the Hmong, the Tay and the Dao. And I will include the link to his YouTube channel which is where you're going to actually see the fruits of his labour I guess. Jack's had an interesting career living abroad. He's lived in Spain for three years, China for four and Thailand for four. Now residing in Vietnam and doing some teaching. He says he decided to start a travel YouTube channel. One of the main reasons he says for doing this was he felt that a lot of the videos out there on travel are definitely featuring the travel destination but they're a lot about the person who's taking the videos rather than the area and he wants to focus on the people, the places, the food and the culture that he visits. And that's what really kind of attracted me to bring him on this show because I love his approach and I love his respect and his mutual love of Vietnam and the people. So I think for those trekkers out there this is definitely the show for you. Let's welcome Jack to the program. Thank you very much for having me. Look we're going to be talking about a couple of places in Vietnam that I've really wanted to get a little bit deeper into and that's a place called Sapa and another place called Ninh Binh. But before I jump into that, Jack tell us how you found yourself in Vietnam. Why Vietnam? [00:00:00] Kerry Newsome: Welcome to the what about Vietnam podcast? Great to have you on the show. [00:00:08] Jack Taylor: Thank you very much for having me. [00:00:10] Kerry Newsome: Look, we're gonna be talking about a couple of places in Vietnam that I've really wanted to get a little bit deeper into, and that's a place called Sapa and another place called Ninh Binh. But before I jump into that, Jack, tell us how you found yourself in Vietnam. Why Vietnam? [00:00:32] Jack Taylor: Why not Vietnam? I've been there twice now. This is my second trip. I think it's one of the best places to visit anywhere in the world that I've been. And one of the most interesting places in Asia. So I l I've lived in Asia now for the last seven years. Three years in China and four years, so four years in China, and now four years in Thailand. This most recent trip we had a long holiday, the world's opening up again. So I finally managed to get out of Thailand. And this is my first, this is my first trip outside of home that I've been to and outside of Thailand for four years now. So Vietnam was the first place where I went to. [00:01:09] Kerry Newsome: It's an easy place to fall in love with I totally get that. And I think what I appreciate most about how you see Vietnam is definitely through the eyes of your camera and your cinematography. And for everyone listening, you're going to be able to see some of the work that Jacks. Created because it inspired me to talk to him. And I'm really grateful that he's here on the show to actually talk about that filming and those experiences. Because when you do see the video, you go, oh gosh, that place is just so wow. It's just got so much. Wow. So let's start with Sapa and Yeah. Like talk, talk us through. Your journey, your setup, like how did you get prepared for Sapa and what was your kind of first experience of Sarpa? [00:02:04] Jack Taylor: So I went to Sapa after a couple of days in Hanoi. And anyone who's been in Hanoi knows it's a hectic crazy wild city. Almost anywhere is a complete change from that. So you take the "love bus", I take the love bus, a small bus with a compartment with my wife. It was a late an hour, eight hour drive up there. And When you first get there, it's actually a bit intense. The one thing that I didn't like about Sapa that much was that I stepped off the bus and people were hasling me for tours already, hiking, tours. Now this was something I'd already soughted out before. Hate to start with the negatives, but that was the first thing that happens as soon as you get off there. Once I found out way to a hotel and you get a look around the place you realize that it's a really beautiful mountain town. You can see the mountains in the distance and some of the architecture of the town's really nice as well. And I suppose in terms of my setup, my camera setup I didn't know what to expect there. In Hanoi when I made a video there, I was able to do a bit more research. I feel like there's a lots of videos and lots of pictures from Hanoi Sapa, less, slightly less so I was just walking around taking pictures, taking videos of the town center and some of the people in it. [00:03:13] Kerry Newsome: And, I'm glad you brought to everyone's attention just a little bit of that different presence of. Of Hagglers or sellers because they don't actually represent the vast majority of the population there. They're actually a very small group of people that, obviously they need to sell things to, to make money, to feed their families and all the rest of it. But I had a similar. Experience, and I found it quite aggressive. And I was quite shocked because even in places like Hanoi, you can go around the old quarter and you can go around places there, but you never get haggled or I never did to that extent. So I was, that was a bit in my face. I'm thinking, God, aren't I out here in rice fields and the hills are alive kind of thing. But yet I'm getting haggled. [00:04:05] Jack Taylor: Yeah I, like I say, I had a similar experience you'll notice as well with a lot of people. It's strange because I had the town experience before I then did the trekking experience, which we'll talk about in a minute. And my first thought when these people were trying to sell me trekking to is that they're dressed in the traditional outfits. What I now know is a Red black Hmong and at first I thought it was a bit gimmicky, but actually it's not. It is the traditional outfits that you'll see once you go out in the countryside and there's no tourists there. It's the same outfits they wear. So it's, I can imagine some people who never get out of the town maybe are overwhelmed by it or think it's a little bit gimmicky, but actually there is, that is part of the culture. So my idea changed after a while. [00:04:43] Kerry Newsome: It is authentic and you can't get over the intricacy of the costumes that they wear. Sometimes they take up to a year to actually make some of those costumes. But I did a program with a guest, oh, over a year ago now, and we talked about, trying to make sure that you get the right kind of trekking guide and one that does. Or is authentic and you know is gonna give you the best experience, but it's very hard to pick them. When you are the naive tourist and you're arriving there, how do you know which one is the. The good one or the bad one when they're all looking the same. And then when you ultimately go out and they're similarly dressed, but not quite the same attitude. So it's a tough one, but I don't wanna, I don't wanna go too much on it, but I just think it's worth mentioning and doing your homework and getting some guidance before you arrive is definitely. The way to go. So let's separate Sapa out into the town itself because you took us through on your video, a little bit more of the town than I actually spent time on. So maybe share with us a little bit of the town itself. [00:05:59] Jack Taylor: Yeah, it's it's quite a livey little town. Like I said to you earlier on. I expect it to be a really quiet, mountainous town. It's not, it's got quite a lot going on. Lots of restaurants, lots of bars, lots of coffee shops. They've got a large town square. There's, there seem to be lots of shows going on there. They're stage set up. A lot of the tourism in the area is based around the trekking or the, like the ethnic minority villages. But they have a large population within the town as well. And yeah, I thought it was it was very different her to Hanoi in the level of hecticness, but it's also, it maintains that a little bit in the town, but it's a nice contrast at least compared to Hanoi. You can look out even though. It's got, it's, the streets are pretty crazy. You can look out on these beautiful mountains and enjoy that too. [00:06:43] Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and I have two experiences which are. A little bit. The first one's a bit funny in the sense that when my husband and I went there, we kept going down wrong way streets on a bike that we hired. So we kept getting fined by the police who were asking for these amounts of money, which, once again, you know, that kind of went. Kerry, I should know better than this. It was in my very early days of traveling to Vietnam, so I was, yeah, one of the very naive ones. But we learned very quickly that there was a bit of a system going on there. And then in the township, I was desperate to get my hair washed. And this, I went to this hairdresser, and this is before like you're talking about bars and a real happening. The town, like we're talking. 2010 probably that we went. I haven't been back since and the township was really small and not much happening at all. And if you weren't into trekking then, there wasn't a lot to do. So yeah, so I went to this hairdresser and she washed my hair and truly I came out and I looked like. Phyllis Diller If you ever remember the American popular star. My hair was like in went straw. I don’t know what she washed it with, but it was like gasoline or something like that. So it was a bit scary. So getting into the trekking side of it. There is a little bit of small trekking to be done, just very close to the town, which a lot of the tourists do when they just do a very one night stay because they don't have time. So they just do this little meander around and it's quite pretty and it's not too pressing, but what I'm keen to talk. To you about is the treking that you've done quite out of Sapa and the advantages of going out and what to experience there. [00:08:41] Jack Taylor: Trekking is something that I do on a lot of my trips, I think it's probably my favorite to do thing to do when I go to a new country. And I think there's numerous reasons for that. One. You get to see the landscapes, which personally that's something that I'm really interested in seeing especially in Asia. Once you get out of the cities, there's some great mountainous. And really u unique, interesting places to visit. You also get to see and meet the real people. I think people who live in cities all around the world, there's some similarities. Okay. Hanoi is different to London. In many ways, but it's still a city. It's still people who have city life. Once you get out into the countryside, that's a completely different culture. You could argue the real people of a country. So you get to kinda see what life is like in, in a more rural setting. In this case, I went to Trekking for three days with the Red Dao tribe. A woman from the Red Dao Tribe and yeah, she taught us first of all, I was impressed by her level of English cuz she taught us a lot about the surrounding area, how they live and their history. And it was a really fascinating experience. [00:09:47] Kerry Newsome: And I think having the local minority groups. There to give you some advice, give you, and if you've got someone that can give it to you in English, whilst, you can always put a lot into hand gestures and pointing and, but having English speaking. Guides is a really big plus I think in these places, just so that you can get a little bit more information to give context to the region because the minority groups are so interesting when you get into their history and. The role that they've played in all of the wars that have gone on in Vietnam and all sorts of things, and their crafts, their markets, all of that sort of thing. So talk to us a little bit about the level of hiking that is required to get the best experience. Do you have to be, a really good hiker or trekker or, can you just be a hobby one like me? [00:10:49] Jack Taylor: I think there's something for everyone. Maybe I'm a bit of a weirdo, but I would say, I said, give us the hardest one. Give us the hardest track you've got. And once she said, once she's, we got AZ at you on the first day. Do you wanna do the easy way, the hard way? We went probably the hard way. What is it? Is it better? She's it's more beautiful. We said, give us the hard way. Like I said, I've done some treks or like I told you before I've done some treks around the world now I've done some treks in China for multiple day ones, some in Thailand usa. So I've got a bit of experience. However, I think it can still be enjoyed as a hobbyist, like if you just wanna do a half day tour. The first towns we walked to were actually within an hour or two of Sapa town center. They weren't the best towns. But it was still beautiful countryside. You could still really enjoy it. I think there's also options to do day trips to, to the villages and then go on tour walking tours around the villages as well. So if anyone listening who is maybe a bit intimidated by doing a three day trek then you, there are still options for you too. [00:11:51] Kerry Newsome: And. Like I, I'm wanting to drill down a little bit on this because I've spoken to other trekkers and never said, oh, it's only about, 25 Ks or 30 Ks in the total track. And some people might go, what the 20, 25, 30 Ks? I don't walk that in a year. So it's. It's trying to put some reality to it because you've got also weather conditions to consider it. It can get quite warm or conversely it can be quite cold. So talk to us a little bit just about, what sort of fitness level do you think and, have you gotta be an avid walker and go, be able to handle. My experience, you've gotta be able to handle hills, you've gotta have good footwear and you've gotta be able to handle that that just, that change in temperatures, et cetera. [00:12:42] Jack Taylor: Yeah, so on the track I did, I think the first day was 17 kilometers. The second day was 25 and then the final day was 13. So it was pretty intense track, especially that second day. Cuz the second day there was this huge valley. And in the video I'm currently making now I'm doing a more focus video on the trekking, which you haven't seen yet. But there's one day we climb up this giant hill. And then we're already pretty tired. And then we go where we at? Hiking to today. She points through the valley and it [00:13:12] Kerry Newsome: Oh no. [00:13:13] Jack Taylor: and we're like, oh, we're going over there. So that was she didn't tell us that until we got to the top of the hill. It was already too late at that point. But I would say on the trek I did, you gotta be a bit fit. The thing I found that was the most difficult like I say, I bring my cameras everywhere with me, so I've got a whole bag [00:13:31] Kerry Newsome: A lot of gear. [00:13:32] Jack Taylor: My wife will carry that one and I carry both of our clothes, so her clothes and my clothes. So I had this too big of a bag really. And over three days hiking that much, it really dug into my shoulders. So it was my shoulders more than anything that I had trouble with. Don't do it in flip flops is my first piece of advice. Bring at least a pair of trainers. I'd known this is one of the reasons I came to Vietnam and to Sapa, was to do the hiking. So I brought a nice big pair of hiking boots. So if you're gonna do the more extreme end, I'd be prepared. Bring plenty of water that kind of thing. And yeah, I'd probably done a, I've probably would try and get some experience beforehand if you're gonna do the three day one. But like I say, there's options for one day. There's options for two day, that kind of thing. [00:14:16] Kerry Newsome: Yeah. And like I think that's really great advice on the shoe wear, because I've seen some amazing. Options of people that have got off those buses and they're gonna do a two day hike. And when I look at their footwear, I just go, oh, are you kidding me? There is nowhere, there's no traction on them. They've got no concept of the slippery slidy places that they're going to be going and, yeah, crazy isn't it? [00:14:46] Jack Taylor: Yeah. The, it reminds me the first trek I ever did was actually probably the longest one, and I was probably in the worst shape. I was in Columbia, in Latin, in South America, and I did it. I was like, yeah, whatever. I'll do it in these. Plimp soul shoes and I came back, it was five days, I think. I couldn't walk for a week afterwards. Everyone that did the trek, they went on to the next place. I was like, I need to stay in this hostel for a couple of days and just relax. It's the same, it's the same in Vietnam. [00:15:11] Kerry Newsome: Yeah, absolutely. And like I've even done, small climbs, et cetera, when you do Marble Mountain near Danang and places like that, that if you don't, some people try and do it in thongs and I go, Like marble, when it's wet, it's slippery. Like you can just so easily do an ankle or, do some damage that then wrecks your whole holiday. So a really good point. [00:15:39] Jack Taylor: and if you're doing it, if you're doing it out there in the Sapa countryside, if you twist an ankle that you've got a hike, either way, you know you're gonna have to get yourself back to a main road somehow, somewhere. And that wouldn't be fun. [00:15:52] Kerry Newsome: No, and depending on who you've hired as your Trekking guide or the company that you are dealing with, likewise them having someone to, come and get you back where you know they've gotta take on the rest of the group. All these little kind of things can go wrong if you don't put a little bit of thought into it. And some people are just so casual about it. It amazes me that they just take. Thought about it so lightly and not think, gee, I better wear, and even the size of their bags I think, you, you're not gonna take that wheely bag. Like they'll be wheeling a small carry on bag. And I'm thinking are you kidding me? Yeah. So [00:16:38] Jack Taylor: Hundred, a hundred percent. You couldn't have done that on this track. Yeah. It would ditch that bag. That bag would've gone. [00:16:43] Kerry Newsome: Yeah, for sure. Talk to us a little bit about your accommodation during the treking. You've obviously stayed overnight in some home stays. [00:16:53] Jack Taylor: Yeah. I was surprised by the quality of them actually. The houses were really quite nice. The village it's very rural. So don't get me wrong, it's not a modern place, but like the quality of the houses, they were well built. We had a bed. I wasn't expecting a bed actually. Like I say, I've done some treks in other places, even northern Thailand. And usually when you stay with the hill tribes there it's a wooden house, which it was here as well, but it. Very much like on stilts. Like it very much looks like it's made in the middle of the jungle and you're sleeping on a mat on the floor. So that's what I'd expected. And then we got there and it was a fairly comfortable bed. It was a bit hard and but that, I can't complain. The quality of the house was nice. The food they cooked was absolutely delicious. So that was probably the highlight. They cooked food, all of it made from local ingredients, cuz they're agricultural people. They, it's, everything was grown locally. I remember they had spring rolls, some stir fried beef lots of vegetables. That was absolutely delicious. And probably the most unique thing about the Red Dao is they do this herbal bath. I dunno if you've heard about the herbal baths. [00:18:00] Kerry Newsome: Oh yeah. [00:18:01] Jack Taylor: And it was again, This was a lot nicer than I was expected. So we got the accommodation and then you offered it costs a little bit more. I can't remember exactly how much it was but it wasn't too expensive and it was definitely worth doing. And they run this herbal bath. I'm not entirely sure what was in the herbal bath, but it's in like a barrel. It's not a bath, it's in a barrel. So me and my wife, we had two separate barrels. It was filled with hot water and it was one of the best things you can do after a long day's hike. When you got all that sweat and all that grime on you, you're in. I wouldn't want it to, I wouldn't want think about how dirty the water would get once out once we'd been in there. But it was one of the best things to do and relax after the hike. [00:18:40] Kerry Newsome: Yeah. Now I've had a guest on the show who traveled around Vietnam with social enterprise headset looking for experiences. Where social enterprise played a role and she found herself in Sapa and in a Red Dao village. And she took that bath and she described it equally as pleasurable and as relieving for those sore muscles. After doing that trek it's interesting just about the accommodation. I get very mixed views about. Home stays an accommodation in those remote areas. Some people say they're really great and very obviously homely, but comfortable enough. And then there's some people who just can't see themselves staying that it's just beyond their comfort zone. So it's interesting. Do I dare [00:19:34] Jack Taylor: that. [00:19:34] Kerry Newsome: ask about toilets? Can you tell, are they western toilets? [00:19:39] Jack Taylor: It did have a Western toilet. Again, I was surprised about that it had western toilet. It did have a shower room, so if you don't wanna do the herbal bath, it had a whole shower room. Yeah I was surprised of the quality and, but I'm the kind of person. Who is quite comfortable with bare bones. Like I say, one of the things I like doing about the hiking is you get to go experience local cultures. The, my only question is if you'd stayed in the non-home stay house, would it have had all that? My guess is probably not. My guess is this was made up for tourists for their comfort zone. So this is Tain Village and I can find you the link for the Homestay I stayed so you can attach it at the bottom, but this one was very nice. This one was very nice. But I also think there's kind of two types of people when it comes to backpacking around Vietnam or other places in Asia. It's some people who. To go there because they can probably afford to places that are more comfortable and maybe more luxurious than what they're used to. It's obviously cheaper than backpacking around Europe, right? If you're backpack around Europe, you're probably staying in cheaper hotels, basic stuff. But if you go to Vietnam you can pay the same price and have. Like really luxurious places. I think there's that kind of person and there's the kind of person more like me who likes the wild side of it, who likes to see the things that you wouldn't be able to see in Europe or other places around the world. And that's what you'll get when you're staying in the villages. Like it is. It is very rural. I don't I can imagine some people, I imagine my family. If they visited, they'd be out their comfort zone. So it is something to make sure you would be comfortable with beforehand. But to me personally, it's one of the most fascinating things you can do. [00:21:20] Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and I think you're right, and I've got both in my audience, so I've got some people who, yeah, they can handle a little bit of raw a little bit of, discomfort to experience that. Authenticity within a region. And then there's some that just say, no that's not me. And, horses for courses like that's fair enough. But what I wanna do in the show, in, in what I do with people is I try and give them the reality side of it, not the fluff and bubble I want to talk about. So you go there with expectations that can be met, so you don't go there with Unrealistic expectations and then get disappointed or the other way around. Talk to us a little bit about how long you think is a good stay there? If people are planning to do this, what would you recommend as far as how long they should give themselves to, to have a really good experience? [00:22:16] Jack Taylor: I would say possibly even a night in Sapa town is enough and a homestay. So I would say minimum two nights, minimum. Two nights. If you are gonna do the treking part, like I say, mine was three days, two nights. So I think I was there four nights total. Like everywhere in Vietnam, I wish I had more time. I would've loved to have stayed in other home stays and there was some things in the town that I didn't check out. Mount Fanispan is one of the, one of the highlights there that I didn't actually have time for. So you could stay longer. I would say minimum two. Before moving on to either Ha Giang or maybe back to Hanoi. [00:22:55] Kerry Newsome: And did you? Did you choose a particular time of year that you wanted to go to Sapa? I'm thinking about your cinematography side of it. Did you say, no, I want to go, when it's this time of year because of [00:23:10] Jack Taylor: My job as an English teacher, so I'm an English teacher in Thailand, so it was when I got the holiday is when is how I decided it. However one thing to note I went after the harvest and the good thing about that, about trekking in that time was it was quite nice, whether it wasn't too hot. On one of the days it was cloudy, which was quite nice. It was nice and cool. The other days it was a bit sunny, which was also nice. It wasn't too hot though. If you come earlier in the year though, you can see the rice patties actually growing. So it's nice and green and as the people working in the fields, so especially what I've seen from a lot of photographers and from some other people who've been there making videos if you go at that time of year, you get to see For people work in the fields in the traditional outfits, and that's must be a beautiful site to see. I didn't get to see that. However, I think the Treking part of it was just that little bit better. Because it was mostly dry, but even I stepped into a couple of puddles and then I had my up to my ankle in covered in dirt. If you've gone closer to the rainy season, I think you're gonna get a lot grimier. It's, the trekking probably gonna be that bit more difficult and I've heard that there can be leeches. So you have to be careful. The leeches [00:24:25] Kerry Newsome: Yeah. So what month did you go? [00:24:28] Jack Taylor: I was beginning of October is when I went. [00:24:31] Kerry Newsome: Beginning of [00:24:32] Jack Taylor: And there was no leeches. [00:24:33] Kerry Newsome: bonus. [00:24:35] Jack Taylor: Yeah. [00:24:36] Kerry Newsome: So is there anything else you'd like to add for everyone listening just about trekking, Sapa would like, to make sure that we get everything out there in, in our chat. So is there anything I haven't mentioned or should have mentioned? [00:24:51] Jack Taylor: Yeah. One thing that I think might be interesting that we haven't mentioned is some of the wildlife that you'll see out when you're hiking. So the main one is the water buffalo. I'd never seen water buffalo that up close before. I've lived in Southeast Asia for four years now, but there we, there's so many water buffalo they live. They live and they work in the fields. And I was a little nervous at first because I remember the first time I came to Vietnam I was doing a bike tour in Hoi An and we, as we were passing the water buffalo, the guide I think he was taking the mick outta me, he told me that the water buffalo, they don't like the white people cuz we smell like milk. We smell like milk. And they don't like milk. They only like Vietnamese smells. I think he said they smell a foot. So he said, you gotta be careful around the water buffalo. Now our guide [00:25:39] Kerry Newsome: no, that's terrible. Oh, [00:25:42] Jack Taylor: cuz I was walking past the, we had to walk pretty closely by them and they get scared, right? So they begin to run away. So I was like, this guy told me that they don't like the smell of us. And she said, no, that's not true. He's pulling your leg. [00:25:53] Kerry Newsome: Oh, that's [00:25:53] Jack Taylor: on top of that, [00:25:54] Kerry Newsome: I'm gonna share that one. That's excellent. [00:25:57] Jack Taylor: On top of that our guide may wander. She got worried at one point. There was a big snake. We just missed it. It s slivered down the hill. But she said it was about this big. I'm, I know about 10 centimeter thick. She didn't really say how long, but it was in the grass and that's s slivered off, so you gotta be a little bit careful. She said some of them are poisonous, but most part they're okay. [00:26:19] Kerry Newsome: I wish you wouldn't have told me about the snake bit. Now I might have to cut that out because like I'm terrified of reptile. So I yeah that's good to know for everyone listening. And especially good for me to know in case I wanna do that trek. In the future. Beware of reptiles. Good to know. Jack, that's really wonderful. Thank you for sharing with us. I'm going to make sure that I put all the links to your fabulous footage that you've done. I really love your work, so we'll make sure that everyone can see that. And yeah. Just want thank you for being on the show [00:26:56] Jack Taylor: Thank you.

a49788fb-0cb3-4201-bdcd-7bee9e2f767bExploring the threaded history of textiled in Mai Chau What About Vietnam - Series 2 - 5 Explore Mau Chau and its threaded history in textiles Kerry Newsome: Welcome to what about Vietnam today I am talking to the lovely Cynthia Mann, and I'm going to be talking to her about a recent trip that she did to a place called Mai Chau. Now Mai Chau is one of those places a little off the grid about three hours out of Hanoi, but it is absolutely wonderful experience if you are looking for a place in Vietnam that can take you back in time in some ways as its features the minority groups; the Hmong people and the Thai people. Cynthia has a lot to do with these ethnic communities as she operates a business called Future Traditions and has a showroom in Hanoi which I strongly recommend that you pop into. Using the traditional weaving and textiles of all the Hmong people and the Thai people she's been able to create the most amazing contemporary designs in homewares and fashion She is definitely a person in the know and with lots of years of experience in the area. She was able to join us today from Hanoi and tell us a little about her trip. Please welcome her to the show …...welcome Cynthia to the program. Cynthia Mann: Thank you, nice to be here. Kerry Newsome: Great to have you on the show. Look today I am going to be picking your brains about a trip that you did recently to one of my favorite places call Mai Chau. Tell us a little more about where Mai Chau is, where it's actually located and how you get there just so we can appreciate where it is on the map. Cynthia Mann: One of the nice things about Mai Chau is that it's actually like a drive from Hanoi, so it doesn't require flights itself, it’s maybe three hours. Its also quite a good road to get there, so you can leave in the morning and be there for lunch. It's in the mountains with beautiful valleys, it's home to some minority villages in the area. The Mai Chau town itself is quite small it's got a really nice kind of “old world” feeling and community there: there are some beautiful waterfalls and scenery. It's just a really fantastic place to get away from it all, and I don't really know one person there. I mean you can jump on a bicycle and ride around the villages very easily, and it's a lot less physically demanding than Sapa, but yes absolutely not as touristy, which is part of its appeal. Kerry Newsome: Exactly and I think you made a good point about referring it to Sapa. I mean Sapa kind of sits very high on the tourist map but Mai Chau traditionally hasn't, and I'm not sure why. Because like you, I found it fascinating. I went there about three years ago, and I had to ask my travel agent to create this tour for me because you know they said not many people know about Mai Chau . I went well, I'm going, I want to experience it. So where did you stay, and why did you choose the place you stayed? Cynthia Mann: Traditionally I started going to Mai Chau in about 2008 and there really was only one or two Homestays and a hotel called an Echo Lodge. And now there are two Echo Lodges, one on the road, and then there is just a beautiful big one. Yes, and now there's quite a lot of different places to stay but this is where I stay at Mai Chau is a place called “Hide Away”, and it's actually about fifteen to twenty kms outof Mai Chau town, on the edge of this huge hydroelectric reservoir. So very beautiful, one of the biggest in Southeast Asia, so you've got all the options as in kinds of water activities like kayaking and things like that. And we really went after lockdown, as we just wanted to have a bit of a getaway and feel like we were human again. Kerry Newsome: Escape the world. Cynthia Mann: Escape the world. To put it in context, in a sense you know that during the lock down I was locked in the house by myself, so I was really a bit desperate to talk to people and that was partly why it was fantastic. To be there with friends and enjoy their company and wide open spaces. Kerry Newsome: Now you mentioned that the Mai Chau place you stayed at was a Homestay. Cynthia Mann: No, the place we used to stay would be the only option, but now this was kind of a four-star kind of hotel Kerry Newsome: A four-star, okay and what would the average night stay there be just roughly for our guests to understand price-wise. Cynthia Mann: That's a good question can't remember because we got a special deal and I think it was maybe it was about a $100USD for the 2 nights. Kerry Newsome: A hundred U.S. Cynthia Mann: Around that much I think we'll have to check on that one and so. Kerry Newsome: And as a list of things to do around Mai Chau what would be like your top three things to do, if you base yourself at the Hideaway what would you do? Cynthia Mann: If you've never been to Mai Chau town, going to Mai Chau town is essential and spend some time in their kind of tourist villages there, because it's where their ethnic type villages do some weaving. They have a lot of textiles which is my first love as you know. Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. Cynthia Mann: I would go on one of the little boat cruises. Actually sounds a bit glamorous, it's not, its kind of one of those you know, pop ups! Very basic. You know the ones. Kerry Newsome: That’s a good point. Cynthia Mann: It was March and it was very pretty particularly just before sunset. So you go down the reservoir, and then we had dinner at this amazing dinner at this fish farm. So we cruise as the light shadows us which is gorgeous. It's a bit like it is at Ha Long Bay, you know you've got these amazing kinds or rocks coming out of the water. And then on the west side we cruise while heading into the sunset which is absolutely stunning. It was really beautiful and the dinner was incredible. We were the only guests. Their job was cooking all this amazing array of fish dishes , all sorts of different one’s, barbecued with various flavourings, and it was just delicious. Kerry Newsome: Can you explain a little about that fish restaurant because if I got it right it's a fish farm that sits in the middle of the lake. Cynthia Mann: Yeah. Kerry Newsome: And now they built a restaurant around it is that right? Cynthia Mann: In the middle yeah; it's basically a series of farms that supply to the area and I think they also send it up to Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh. It's very locally driven. You would most probably not hear about it, but you get some table you can sit at, and they just bring out the food Kerry Newsome: So glad that's happened because when I was there, they were building it and I actually walked away with a piece of the bamboo that they were using to build the structure with. I planted things in it back at home when I got home. God knows how I got it through customs. I knew all the plans that they had to create this restaurant so it's great to hear that they've done that. I'm sure tourists coming into the region are going to love it. Now I want to get back to something that I know you're going to be able to speak to everyone a lot about. And that's about the ethnic communities and about those textiles that we talk about that you offer in your boutique- Future Traditions, through your handcrafts; tell us a bit about that. Cynthia Mann: Sure. Sure, when I was down there, I actually also did a bit of business I have some textile producers down there. So because I met with them while I was there it is predominantly ethnic and minority communities down there. Hmong and Thai. They do all the famous embroidery, the Thai weaving is famous and it’s incredibly affordable to buy. Kerry Newsome: Do they still hang the bedspreads on the lawn? Cynthia Mann: Yeah, they do. Kerry Newsome: I bought one. Cynthia Mann: They actually made those from recycled Hmong skirts and not actually Thai at all. I love the beautiful Hmong gathered skirts that are made from a number of different pieces featuring appliqué and embroidery, and they construct those, and then make them into this kind of blankets sheets and bedspreads whatever you want to call them. And that's one of the interests I have. But it is no longer hand made because it's cheaper for them to buy in from China and then just to sew the skirt, because for Hmong traditional woman's clothing can take forever, and they could be doing other things. Like rice harvesting. Roasting food and other things. It can take a year for them to make a new piece of clothing, which they usually do, so everybody in the family will get a new set of clothing for the new year. For TET. They now have a quicker and cheaper way to do it. Which on one hand is great, right? Because it’s cheaper, and it’s quicker and everybody will get more time to do other things and perhaps potentially earn more money? But it also means that those integral cultural traditional skills are being diminished. So one thing I do to bring back to the boutique is to take work to a couple of ladies in one of the villages outside on the Province border, who I know still do the hand stitching, applique & ribbon of which is a traditional form of the skirts. They add the red black and white, then do a bit of a floral through it, and then the black and white little squares are added on, because now you can find a similar layer of it, from China, that's machine-made. But it’s just not quite the same. The traditional way is one of the things that I first fell in love with, the first time I went to the Hmong villages. Over time I've worked with some of the ladies that make it, and I've given them fabric in different color schemes so that they then produce a version for me that fits in with some color scheme that I'm working on for the next collection Kerry Newsome: That's really great to know. Cynthia Mann: During that time I use some of those bedspreads or recycled old skirts and infuse some into my signature jackets with antique fabric which is all right and I try to make it work. As often as I can, I go to Paco village and purchase fabrics in combinations I can incorporate into my designs. Kerry Newsome: So, just too to recap on where that situated the Paco village that that you referred to is actually kind of at the back door of where I was staying last time. So that Eco log that set up on the hills you can actually go down the back and through to the smaller villages. Cynthia Mann: Through the back of little villages that are set up between, that's different. Kerry Newsome: It was pretty basic. Not much is there but good to see. Cynthia Mann: Yeah, Paco village itself is actually on the canal. A village, which has a local market there on a Sunday morning. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, I didn't get to. Cynthia Mann: It's kind of like a triangle between the town, where the Paco village is. Kerry Newsome: How long would you suggest a person should plan a stay there, is that a day trip? Or is it an overnight trip, two or three days, what would you recommend? Cynthia Mann: Definitely an overnight if you want to go to the Paco market which is lovely really lovely it's a very small market. Kerry Newsome: Yes, I have heard. But only open on a Sunday. Cynthia Mann: You need to go there early, be there by seven thirty, eight o'clock as it's over by ten. And I would stay, ideally stay two nights. If you start like at the Eco Lodge in the valleys behind much of a Mai Chau Town. Then you can hire a bicycle and just cycle around and into different villages and you know talk to the locals, and it's a really lovely valley to explore and it's really easy to do Kerry Newsome: Just to clarify on the timing you went in, we think around about June. Cynthia Mann: Yeah. Kerry Newsome: Because you and I just love the heat. I like recommending for people the best time to visit. I went in March and it was actually quite cool. Cynthia Mann: Yes. Kerry Newsome: So, I was wrapped up. It was quite chilly but you went in June. When would you think are the good months to go from a timing perspective? Cynthia Mann: Autumn in the north is probably best. Anywhere in the north is probably the best season - starting September October November. Kerry Newsome: September, October, November. Cynthia Mann: And once you get it in December January it can be quite cold, and for February can be quite cold. Tends not to be as humid there which is nice and especially for tourists who are not used to it. When we were there and were chatting with some friends online and they were saying better you're enjoying the cool weather down there. And I looked away and it was actually the same temperature, and it was thirty-nine degrees. But in Hanoi, it was no different in temp, it's not as high, or as cool as Sapa, but it tends not to be as humid, so for a lot of people that's a big relief. Kerry Newsome: I think any time in the middle of the year anywhere in Vietnam is pretty warm let’s face it. Cynthia Mann: And once you enter towards the end of July, we're just starting the rainy seasons. It will be more overcast, and then you will have rain. On the other hand the rain cools everything down. On Sunday we had this huge downpour and an old friend of mine and I just whistled around on bikes in the cool, it was like…. WOW... I haven't felt this for a long time, it was just fabulous. Kerry Newsome: Delicious especially after lockdown. Cynthia, it was great to chat. Cynthia Mann: Absolutely. Kerry Newsome: I just wanted to say thanks again and we will be chatting soon. Cynthia Mann: Excellent. Be safe everybody and look after yourselves and looking forward to seeing you in Hanoi, Vietnam at some stage in the not too distant future.