3f489e6a-8dfa-44cc-825b-69aabdfd9d88Why you should do more than one cooking class What About Vietnam - S2-23 – Cooking classes in Vietnam, why you should do more than one! Kerry Newsome: [00:00:36] Xin chau and welcome to what about Vietnam? I'm very excited about today's program because it's not often that I get somebody as talented and as gifted in the art of cooking as my guest today, Chef Tracey Lister. I'm going to give you a little bit of background about her because she has a long history, having lived in Vietnam and she's been part of some very interesting growth areas in the area of cooking classes, etc. And I just think she will bring a lot to the program. We're going to be talking about cooking classes, which is a really fun thing to do in Vietnam and a great way to learn about the country and the culture of the country through its food. So about Tracey. Tracey has, as I said, been going back and forth to Vietnam for over 20 years. She did actually live in Hanoi back in 2008. She's a well-published author. "A Culinary Journey Through Vietnam" was released with her husband back in 2008, sold over 9000 copies around Australia, Japan, UK, and the USA. She brought out a second book in 2011 called "Vietnamese Street Food", and that's been translated into German and Finnish. And her most recent books in 2017 called "Real Vietnamese Cooking" and “Made in Vietnam” came out and is a really great third addition to her list of writings. She is currently based in Australia, in Melbourne, and she's opened up her own restaurant and cooking school called “Brunswick Kitchen”. I really suggest if you come to Australia or you live in Melbourne to check out her restaurant. I'll put the link in the notes. It's a fantastic opportunity for you to learn the art of cooking Vietnamese food, but also extends to the art of even making your own gnocchi. So there's lots of opportunities for learning there just to end off some history. Tracey was very instrumental in forming KOTO and KOTO is a grassroots charity and restaurant that helps street kids to free themselves from the poverty cycle through vocational training. I've been to the restaurant several times over the years. It's a fantastic project. She was a major contributor to the training aspect of some of these kids to make it what it is. And it is a great culinary experience. If you do get to visit Hanoi I and I suggest that you definitely go to the KOTO restaurant. I hope you're going to enjoy this episode. Tracey has a lot to offer and advice in choosing a cooking class to attend what you can expect to get from the class and just all of the stuff that you would come to expect on this show. Let's welcome to the program. If I sound a bit excited, I am. Tracey, welcome to the show, we're going to talk cooking, one of my most favorite things to do in Vietnam. How are you? Tracey Lister: [00:04:25] Hi, Kerry. I'm great. Thanks very much. Yes, talking about Vietnamese food is one of my favorite things, too. Kerry Newsome: [00:04:33] Ok, look, one of the things that does come up on a tour to Vietnam is definitely the option for people to do cooking classes. So what in your experience and considering you've been at the front of the room mostly of late doing cooking classes, what can a person expect to get out of a class? I mean, I'm taking into consideration that, you know, not everyone's into cooking. And sometimes, you know, for couples traveling to Vietnam, maybe the guy's not that interested. So what would you say to that? Tracey Lister: [00:05:14] Well, I think doing a cooking class in Vietnam is well worth it. You will walk away with it being one of the highlights, even the people that don't want to do it and totally enjoying it because the food is fantastic, but it's so much more than the food. It's really about the culture and traditions associated with that. Most cooking schools will take you to the market and the market is the soul of a Vietnamese community. You know, you go there to find out the latest news and what's happening. And it's busy and it's vibrant and just a fabulous experience. Even if you're not really into the cooking side of things, you do get to eat some delicious food afterwards. Kerry Newsome: [00:06:02] There's a character that goes with the cooking class itself, because I think if you take into consideration things like the location of the school, you know, there's always something of value to that. Like the actual if it's a restaurant, it's usually got some history to it. So you learn something from them and then a lot of them, as you say, don't just minimize it to, you know, chopping, cutting and cooking. The class is usually about a half day event. Tracey Lister: [00:06:49] Yeah, that's correct. And so you keep going to the market as well. I think you need to do them everywhere you go, because food in Vietnam is very regional and as you say, there's all different characters, but there's always wonderful regional differences. So I’d do a class, Saigon and do one in Hoi An where there are plenty of cooking classes. But don't forget Hue. Hue has amazing cuisine, has rich vegan history and culinary traditions because of all the pagodas there in the imperial city. And then you've got Hanoi food. And then even when you go up north into Sapa and around the Chinese border, the cuisine changes again. So do them where you go, I think, and just make sure that when you're doing it, class is not repeating the same thing. Kerry Newsome: [00:07:56] I agree with you. So walk us through just roughly what a school would include from start to finish. What would it typically include? Tracey Lister: [00:08:13] Well, generally, a welcome and an introduction to Vietnamese food and a bit of advice about how to navigate streets in the market before you head out. I would spend probably a good forty five minutes to an hour at the market. It might seem like a lot, but it is such an exciting place and it is so different to what we're used to here. Like, I would walk and talk about the rising importance of fish sauce into the market, looking at all the various eggs, including, of course, the fertilized egg and then there is somebody selling votives So for a funeral paying respects at the old church, you can purchase your votives there. So when you go into these markets, there's no refrigeration, there's no running water, but there's no odor. They are so clean. And that's because the women (and it is mainly the women who work really hard to clean.) A busy market will have two kills a day. The meat is killed in the morning and that's for lunch. That's all gone by around 11:30 or 12:00. Ladies have a siesta and then it's back on again at 3:00 with a fresh kill. I’d loop back around and go through all the amazing products, including a woman that would be selling bouquets for hair washing. So she was your pharmacist basically so she could put a little bouquet together for you to wash your hair and beautiful aromas from that. And that's a very small space, but probably about a quarter of the size of your average big chain supermarket here. Kerry Newsome: [00:11:32] And I think all that fresh produce that you mention, I can remember in very early days when I took someone to the markets because of the no refrigeration, because of the space elements and because it is in normal circumstances kind of open and out there, isn't it, it's kind of as you say, the meat is freshly chopped and cut in front of you. There's eels jumping around in a plastic tub and crabs in similar kinds of circumstances. So for me and certainly for people that have never seen that, it’s a little bit in your face, isn't it? Tracey Lister: [00:12:20] It can be very confronting. And I have had people that have had to leave the tour. I'll always have someone with me and they would take that person back. But in 10 years, maybe five people have had to go back because of the humidity and all that sort of stuff as well. Yes, I tend to get warnings. So, you know, it's coming up to it, chopping the heads off so you can go another way. The rest of us will walk around that way. Same with the fish, they're not killing chickens in the market anymore since bird flu and the porks are killed at an abattoir. But it comes in as a dead pig in the west, where you see a very sanitized fillets and no bones. And we've got so far removed from what we're actually eating. We don't even have to acknowledge that it's a dead animal. And I know, I really think the Vietnamese approach is much better. There is no wastage. They're not squeamish about having the blood of the duck or any of the organs. In fact, they're all the best bits. And the bits that would go first for staff meals. But it's. You know, we don't see that in the West.I totally understand being a vegetarian. Or a vegan, but if you're going to eat an animal, you need to acknowledge where it comes from and you should also eat the whole thing and not have the wastage that we have here in the West. Kerry Newsome: [00:14:15] Yeah, and I think that's where some of the education that comes in, one of the things that I learned very early on was the way that they would make use of absolutely everything, whether that's a plant, whether that's a vegetable or whether that's an animal and just how they could talk about the loaves and fishes. I mean, man, oh, man, they really know how to do that well, and as you say, we live in such a high wastage environment where we want to cut the fat off and we trim it. And it's hardly recognizable in the end, as you say, where it really came from. So I think it's a really good point. Tracey Lister: [00:15:01] And you mentioned not wasting fruit and vegetables either. So that's not being wasted, taking the peel of citrus fruit, drying it out with beautiful oils in there and taking them home and using it for hair washing or selling it so it's not a waste. Kerry Newsome: [00:15:39] And I think one of the other things I'd like to mention at the markets, which I found fascinating, was making noodles. Tracey Lister: [00:15:49] Yes, the noodles. Kerry Newsome: [00:15:52] And tell us a little bit about why these noodles are better than ours in the sense that they don't kind of clog up my gut like noodles at home. Talk to us about that. Tracey Lister: [00:16:07] Noodles in Vietnam have a shelf life for three hours. They don't throw them away after three hours. Again, no wastage. They will sell them cheaper. They might have them themselves for lunch. Often you get two baskets of noodles and that's for breakfast, but your breakfast tray and then you get another delivery coming through a couple of hours later with noodles for your lunch. And when you go there, you can actually touch the baskets that the noodles are in and they are still warm. They've been delivered from one noodle village into the markets and they're still warm. And when you go to a street vendor, you'll see motorbikes coming in all the time with fresh noodles. And you see the motorbikes around town, I might have five baskets on the back of the motorbike and stacked up on top of each other with the fresh noodles. And unfortunately, we just don't get that freshness here. Kerry Newsome: [00:17:28] It's just it was one of the things I first noticed, and in particular in Hoi An with the dish Cau Lau which has got noodles and one of my favorites; are they still made from wheat? Tracey Lister: [00:17:48] It depends on what noodles you're talking about. the most common noodle that would be for banh pho which is what goes into the soup and they are a flat rice noodle. Bun is another one, and that's a smaller rounded noodle, and that's when you grill pork belly and pork patties. and the rice in the noodle is slightly fermented. So the majority of noodles, I would say 90%, are rice. There is a little bit of wheat noodle. And then, of course, there's cellophane noodles which is what you put in a fried spring roll, or you might be certain other soup dishes, and that's made from some sort of starch.ht be certain other soup dishes, and that's made from some sort of starch. Kerry Newsome: [00:18:54] Right. So if you have gluten intolerant people on a tour, what dish would you steer them to then? Tracey Lister: [00:19:03] For traveling and being gluten intolerant in Vietnam and is pretty easy. Well the staple in Vietnam is rice, rice and fish sauce, and they can appear on every table and so pretty good with that. I’d just stay away from the Banh Mi. But there's so many other options and so many varied rice dishes and noodle dishes. Every village has its own kind of noodle dish or every region has its own dish that you have to try. There's not a lot of soy sauce used in Vietnamise cuisine, so again if you're gluten intolerant, It's not like going to mainland China where it's kind of appearing everywhere. My sister's gluten free and she visited quite a lot and it was never a problem. Kerry Newsome: [00:20:02] I think that's good to know. So what would be some of the dishes you would learn to cook? Well, in a class we mentioned. Tracey Lister: [00:20:19] On a talk about banana flour well banana flour is just absolutely beautiful, beautiful long purple bell shape. And as you peel off the outer layers, you can see what would become the banana, the hand of bananas underneath. But they are immature. So they are generally not Asian.You see the ladies in the market doing it and I do it with a knife no chopping board straight into water with a bit of acid. But chop it finely, as you can get it, put it in some water. It's a little bit of lime juice or some vinegar and that just washes off the slime because you'll feel your fingers are quite sticky and it also softens a little bit and stops going brown. Then it will start to brown a little bit in the same way a banana does want to cut. And then depending on what you want to put with it, it could be some carrots and beans. And again, there's all sorts of regional differences. There's a beautiful, vegan one where you use tofu and fresh lime to make the dressing. Kerry Newsome: [00:22:03] How selective should you be? Should you kind of look at the menu each time that they offer or see what they're going to cover in the class? That would be definitely a good class to do versus another one. Tracey Lister: [00:22:46] A lot of cooking skills or some cooking schools will have different menus they offer at different times of the day or on different days. So I'd look at that. And maybe when you're planning your schedules have a look. We would offer six different classes. Kerry Newsome: [00:23:13] And this is when you were doing these in Hanoi. Tracey Lister: [00:23:16] Yeah. And a very good friend of mine, she does amazing cooking classes and I know she has a couple of different menus and is very happy to adjust them or cater to people's tastes and requirements. So I just find out what's on offer. When I was in Hanoi, we would have six different classes, so we would have street food class food from Hanoi, a vegan class, one just about spring rolls, a seafood class. Kerry Newsome: [00:24:01] oh, that's a good variety, Tracey Lister: [00:24:02] Yes, so you could just look at the website and choose which one on a particular day you might want to do. And perhaps if someone is already locked into food from Hanoi, people will often say, let's go to the mausoleum. But to stop for supper when I come back, that's when you're doing your vegan class. So I look around and say, see if there are different classes on offer from the one that's I. Kerry Newsome: [00:24:30] Yeah, that's a good point. So we've kind of mentioned a little bit about the locations as in and your suggestion, I think to do a cooking class in each location that you visit, I think is a definite great idea. But talk to us a little bit about just what those differences are. So what's the difference between something that you choose to wait in Hanoi versus Hoi An versus Saigon? So give us some food. Tracey Lister: [00:25:04] In Vietnam it is very regional. What is consistent throughout Vietnam is the concept of five flavors. So Vietnamese meals need to be balanced, sweet, salty, spicy, and sour. So not in every dish, but in the five dishes that are making up that meal. Those flavors should be present some way, one or two might be more at the front, but might be more salty with the fish sauce and chili, but the other things might be there in the background like it's part of the salad mix. So that's consistent throughout the use of rice and fish sauce. It gets quite cold in Hanoi in December andJanuary. People can often be a bit surprised when they get off the plane. It's very much like a Melbourne winter, but it is short and only goes for about two months. So the food reflects that. There's a lot of hardier dishes in the north. For example, the spring roll that's very common in Hanoi is poached seafood bound with mayonnaise in a rice paper, wrapped egg and bread crumb and fried. So it's picking up a bit of the French tradition. It looks like a little croquet, but the mayonnaise is there, and that's perfect for the winter food. There's also the use of Chinese influence in the north because of the proximity to China. And I suppose in some ways it's a little bit more austere in Hanoi not to show, you know, it's kind of a quite a sort of place, a bit more conservative. Yeah. It's like Sydney, Melbourne, you know, it's kind of Sydney's beautiful and it's out there and it's bright and that's kind of Saigon and Hanoi. You've got a look for things a little bit more, but it's all there. And it's the truth. It's when you get to choose to find that and explore that. So when you get down to the centre a little bit more of the Thai influence, it's coming again because of the proximity to Thailand. So more lemongrass, more chili, the food gets to be hotter around more than people often prefer Hoi An food because it's probably more similar to what they've had back home. Tracey Lister: [00:27:43] They're probably more familiar with Thai food than they are with Vietnamese and as you get further south, getting more of the tropical fruits coming into a fruit can be used either to sweeten the dish or it can be used. If it's not, fruit can be used to sour the dish. And then we've got a lot more use of coconut milk down south. And then when you get down around the Mekong, you're picking up a lot of those could be in Malay spices coming into it. So the chicken curries that you might have had back in Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane or whatever, they're generally from down south. But it's all delicious. Kerry Newsome: [00:28:33] It is delicious. Yes,I don't think I've had a bad meal in Vietnam. I really don't. And that's a rarity, I think,So, yes, I suppose I have a bit of an inside running. And, you know, for people listening, I'm hoping to give them the inside running to so that I can come away with a great experience. So when we talk about some of the cultural aspects of food and cooking in particular, I think you and I both agree that a great way to learn about Vietnamese and just some of their cultural history is through their food. You and I, the other day, we're talking about some of the funny cultural things to come out of what you know, and I think there was an egg story. Do you want to start with the egg story? Tracey Lister: [00:29:31] Oh, yes. So if you're taking a child to school and they're going to be sitting an exam, you don't want to give them a hard boiled egg on that day because an egg shaped like zero and you don't want them to get zero. That would be bad luck. But, you know, that might be strange to us. But when I was in Vietnam and we used to make hot cross buns every Easter for the expat community, the Vietnamese staff would just ask what is it putting on top of what is the cross and why are you doing that? So we have our own kind of tradition. But otherwise in Vietnam, it is linked more to culture and traditions and the diet will vary greatly. So foods are hot or cold, not the temperature, what it does to your body. So if you've got some sort of skin allergy, your blood's too hot. So you need to have foods that are going to come down. And that's kind of just ingrained in a lot of people in Vietnam. But wonderful food traditions like- don't eat ducks on the first of the lunar month. That's very unlucky. Not for the ducks, obviously, but for the very unlucky day. And maybe these things were originally about breeding cycles, these traditions in the same way in Europe, there are different Starkweather being different things on different days or don't eat at all. So I think that it probably related to perhaps breeding cycles at some point, but it's become part of the culture and the traditions. There's another great one that I love and particular day of the year you eat fermented sticky rice and it just suddenly appears and it's everywhere and you have to eat on that day and that gets rid of any worms. And I don't know whether it worked, but I certainly ate that fermented sticky rice on that day every year because it links you in and it brings you part of the community. It's something to do together. I mean, sharing food is such a beautiful, beautiful thing. Kerry Newsome: [00:32:06] Exactly. And I really love the reverence they have for food. They kind of treat it with respect. They use it as a means, as you say, to bring people together to share. They are always so welcoming. So no matter what there is on the table, if someone comes in, they'll always make room for you to join them. And I've had that experience many times and just overcome by their generosity. Tracey Lister: [00:32:42] Yes, there is a saying in Vietnam, which is “have you eaten rice yet?’ most people probably know anyway. And that's really saying, are you being taken care of, are you nourished?. And I used to find that really weird when I first lived there and it's like, why are you asking me all the time? Have I? And it's not like you had breakfast? It's eaten rice because rice is central. And yes, it is very important to have certain dishes you put on your altar at certain times of the year and then that all the food from the altar, of course, is always Asian and it's very special to have that food from the old. And so if someone takes an apple from the altar and gives it to you, even if you don't want to eat that apple, that is such a beautiful, generous gift and they pass on any good luck to you. Kerry Newsome: [00:33:39] Yes, and of course, the special food that comes out when they celebrate!! Tracey Lister: [00:33:46] Isn't there yet. So the Lunar New Year is the most important holiday in Vietnam and the most important food item for Tet. It is a sticky rice cake that in the center of it has mung beans and pork, it's wrapped in leaves and then it's cooked and it has to be cooked over flame. It can't be cooked on an electric flame or gas it has to be a wooden fire that it's cooked under for about nine hours. So generally everybody has a role like the children in the family will wash the leaves. The women would wash the rice, the men would cut pork, and then it's assembled and generally you might. 20 of them, it's a bit like your auntie who was in charge of the Christmas puddings for the family and she'd make 10 of them and give them out spread between the family. So somebody would be in charge of that. And actually riding around Vietnam on your motorbike a few days before Tet you'll see lots of big pots out on the footpath or on the road with the wood underneath and people just sitting around watching the cooking. And that's probably the most important. Dish, but. It's also one of the reasons why it is important that no further cooking is required, so you don't actually want to; you don't want to be cooking on the first couple of days of Tet. Kerry Newsome: [00:35:48] Yes and you know, we won't go too much into Tet some of the ceremony around the first day and we won't go too much into that because that's that's a whole episode just on its own just to talk about Tet but what I would like to grab you and your thoughts and your experience obviously in is social enterprise in the sense of the work that you did with KOTO. And and once again, one of my favorite places to visit in Hanoi. Tracey Lister: [00:36:22] Yeah. Kerry Newsome: [00:36:24] Is it particularly very special, so maybe for people as a great starting point and a means to, I think, give back if that's the best way to describe it to Vietnam? I always recommend a visit to KOTO. But because you have had such a very big role in KOTO, I thought maybe you might speak to us a little bit about KOTO history and what KOTO was about. Tracey Lister: [00:36:55] KOTO an amazing project training restaurant in Hanoi. I was lucky enough to meet Jimmy Pham, who's a Cabramatta boy, Vietnamese Australian man at that time he was only twenty-six. So he was quite young, went to Vietnam as a tour leader and just met the kids on the street, started buying meals and paying for them to go to school. And what they said was what we really want to do if we want to work and we want to take care of our family. And he said, well, what do you think we could do? And like a lot of people, I said we could run a restaurant. And that's where I met Jimmy and heard about his vision and thought he was crazy. And he's like, oh, look, I came back and there were problems along the way, but it's still going strong. So when we opened in 2000 had 17 kids off the street and KOTO is now recruiting, I think, class 30. And it's about 200 kids going through the program at any one time. And it's a two-year program. They receive a Certificate three from Australian training institutions. So it's very important to me that quality training was given and they stayed with the program for two years and covered things like life skills, integrating them back into the community, sometimes the kids are quite frustrated because. Estranged from their families and society. So it's sort of linking him back in money management, numeracy and literacy skills. So yet an amazing program and it's helped thousands and thousands of kids and their families all. I'll go and visit the families of some of the first and second classes that were my students. And when I first went there, they had a dirt floor. And I bet now they've got towels on the floor and they've got an extra real bathroom. All that sort of stuff. So it's an amazing program. So, yeah, when you go to visit them, make sure you go there. It's open for breakfast, lunch, dinner and coffee. You can go and have a Lamington. It's great for kids. So, you know, sometimes you're a bit exhausted after traveling. The kids are getting restless. And you want to take them somewhere with that great energy from you working at KOTO plus being able to have a toasted sandwich perhaps, or pasta, just settle down a little bit. So it's a good great spot. Kerry Newsome: [00:40:12] Yeah. And as you say, the food's good. The service, when you understand the history, the people that are serving you are really doing it from the heart. And you know that as a student, they're in a learning kind of phase. But the whole vibe, the whole energy of the place is always divine. And as you say, if you want a bit of a treat that reminds you of home or you're a little bit over rice or noodles, et cetera, you can definitely get some of those home traits. Tracey Lister: [00:40:45] And its supporting kids through the program. Kerry Newsome: [00:40:49] Exactly.As far as I'm concerned, Tracey. Look, I could sit and chat with you for hours about this subject, but I know you're busy, lady. I'm going to put some links to your restaurant and your cooking school in Melbourne, the Brunswick Kitchen. And so everything will be there for everyone that wants to get in touch with you and maybe attend one of your classes, because I know that would be fabulous. I know you're an author, so we're going to put links to your books. And I've also got a copy of that, which is most handy at times. Lovely to have you on the show. Really grateful for your time, your expertise and knowledge.

5497c6da-0f62-4f67-8da4-fe3c637ff35dTravelling Vietnam for the first time? What About Vietnam S1-E09 Vietnam Travel – First Impressions Kerry Newsome : Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. My name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host. Today we're going to do something a little bit differently in the sense that I wanted you to meet someone to talk about first impressions of Vietnam. It's a little bit hard for me to do that now because obviously traveling back and forth over many, many years, there's probably a big chance that I have become a little bit desensitized to some things and maybe don't notice them as apparently as they are for a newbie to the country. I'm really delighted to have Meghann on the program today, as her and Zach came to Vietnam in March of 2025 to do the Son Doong Cave Trek, which is a marvelous thing to do, a highly skilled thing to do for, you know, I don't, I wouldn't put that in the barrel of, you know, just something for the average bear. So, you know, they're skilled trekkers, they've done that before and, you know, they've got experiences to draw on to do it. But we're going to hear more about from Meghann’s point of view, just those first few hours, the first few days you know, traversing the traffic, ordering food, meeting some wonderful people, you know, getting their take on Vietnamese war history and understanding and appreciating the Vietnamese and their culture of forgiveness and just, you know, really starting to immerse themselves into the country and get a feel for the region, especially of Phong Nha, where I think they got to, you know, spend some quality time with some locals. Meghann is very honest and open in her sharing. She's got a delightful story, which you have to hang on for till the end, about souvenirs to take home. So, well worth the wait. But, you know, I put this in the Season 1 series because it's part of what I think you as a first-time traveler will get some benefit from hearing because it's not talking about Vietnam of old, it is talking about some of the aspects of Vietnam as it sits today. And I can't do that effectively without someone like Meghann who you know, coming from the US, coming fresh into Vietnam and Southeast Asia. You know, Meghann can do that justice where I can't really do that. But it was great to share with her and remember some of the aspects that I found, you know, way back in 2007. So, you know, sit back people. I've put a link to the blog that Meghann and Zach put together called The Grah Life, so you'll see that in the show notes that you can see some of their other adventures as well. Sit back, stay tuned, there's a great show ahead. Let's say hello to Meghann. Hi, thanks for having me. Maybe give us a little bit of background to yourselves, yourself and Zach, and yeah, we can take it from there. Meghann Grah: All right. So we are travel bloggers under, we call ourselves The Graw Life. It's a play off the good life using our last name. And we just have a love for the outdoors and inspiring others to get out there and try new things. And we're based in Washington State, so we are American. And Vietnam was like a very big, big trip for us. Kerry Newsome : Meghann, tell us the year that you went to Vietnam for the trip. And I know you did Son Doong, and I'd love to talk to you about that, but we probably won't get that in this show. But what year did you go? March of 2025. Wow. So, nice and fresh. Fabulous. Let's roll it back. Let's talk about your first impressions of Vietnam. And you can be blunt, you can be open, but I want you to share what your first impressions, the city that you landed into, your flight to there, because I have a lot of US clients. So, you know, Share away. Meghann Grah : Okay, so we flew in and out of Hanoi, and I'm not sure if it was the 20 hours of travel, but when we arrived, being in the city was just very overwhelming, very overstimulating. I was pretty tired of planning by the time we got around to booking lodging, so I took recommendations from a friend about where to book lodging in Hanoi. We went to the Old Quarter, of course. And they recommended this Airbnb on a street that closes on weekends and becomes a walking street. I was like, perfect. We're going to arrive on Friday. It'll be nice and quiet. And I had read that a lot of lodging is really noisy. So I was like, OK, even if it's not as noisy as other places, it's still going to be a little quieter if the street closes. And then we arrived. And they were having a celebration for International Police Day. I believe it was, there was like an entire stage set up that was like the size of a three-story building, like right outside the Airbnb. And they spent all of Friday practicing and doing sound checks up until midnight. And then at like 7 or 8 AM on Saturday, they started with huge drums. It was fine because we were waking up early that day to go to Hoang Bay, but it was just so funny because we were like, oh, like, you know, thinking like, we'll get a quiet Airbnb on our first night in Hanoi. And it was not quiet. I was going to say, um, I was lazy and I booked that Airbnb for the weekend that we left Hanoi to, like left the country. So that was our last Airbnb. I was thinking like, all right, it's still going to, you know, the street will still close to cars. Um, it'll be much quieter this time. There's not going to be a huge festival there. We got into town and could not figure out why there was just massive amounts of people outside of the building after it took us all day to figure out what was going on. But, uh, the building that's like on that end of the block was being demolished. or it was like set for demolition, I think later that month or something. Yeah, so everybody was going to take pictures and see the building one more time before it got demolished. So again, it wasn't quiet at all. Kerry Newsome: How do you explain that to people, that offense to your senses when you arrive into Vietnam? Do you think it's the motorbikes or do you think it's the sounds? Do you think it's just the chaos? Yeah. Do you think that's the overload? Meghann Grah: I think it's a little bit of everything, but it was also just like the amount of people there and everybody's on a motorbike versus like in cars. I've been to New York and there's lots of cars and lots of people. It seemed like Hanoi had more people and more motorcycles and maybe more noise too. So yeah, just more of everything. Kerry Newsome : Yeah. And as I said, I, uh, I'm bad because I, I don't really appreciate that enough for people. I think when I talk to people about their first time to Vietnam, I forget to ask them about those first impressions and to probably set the expectation for people that it is going to be you know, quite confronting about your lodging, where it is. And the other thing I think to add to this is that Vietnamese don't seem to notice it. You know, they don't understand space, like they don't understand the effects of whatever they do is going to affect another person. They don't seem to be able to moderate those situations for Westerners because it doesn't matter whether you're in a crowd or whatever, they can't conceive what would be upsetting you or what you would be struggling with or find difficult. And I know this because when I've traveled and I've had a guide and I've said something to the guide and said, like, why are all these people here? And he would say, you know, what people like, this is just kind of an ordinary average day. And I'd say, oh, okay. So, I'd have to kind of readjust my thinking. And that's why when you go out to some of the outer areas where, you know, you're in rural landscapes and things like that, you kind of breathe a breath of fresh air because you go, oh, okay, this is kind of more what I'm used to because there's more space, less noise and more nature to help offset the urbanization, I guess, of the city. How did you find getting around? Did you decide to just walk it and and kind of figure it out on your own? Or did you get a guide? How did you decide to navigate the landscape? Because you didn't have that long before you went to Halong Bay, did you? Meghann Grah: No, so we only had one night in Hanoi before we headed back to Halong Bay. So our trip was a little chaotic. I don't know if chaotic is the right word. I mean, I don't want to say not very well organized, But our whole trip was planned around when we were in Song Dong, the cave. So we flew into Hanoi, spent the night there, went to Hoang Bay, spent the night there, went to Ninh Binh, had one night there, then had to go back to Hanoi so we could catch a flight to central Vietnam to get to the caves, and spent two nights there. And it was just like a lot of ping-ponging around as much as like seeing as much as we could before we headed to the cave. Kerry Newsome : Direct flights because you would have had to get to Dong Hoi to get to Phong Nha caves and you would have had to go back to Hanoi to get the flight because that's the only connection that you can get because Phong Nha is sort of like it's relatively easy to get to but as long as you're on the main routes Let's talk about expectations versus reality in the sense of, okay, you're in Hanoi. How did you go crossing the street? How did you go ordering food? All of that kind of stuff. Meghann Grah: All right. We knew that crossing the street was different than here in the States. The traffic never stops and it goes every direction. I think the second time Zach crossed the street, he said, “I was born for this”. I love it. And meanwhile, I'm just saying, don't cross the street without me. And I'm like clinging to him like, wait for me. Cause I didn't like it, but he loved it. Kerry Newsome : I love that. I was born for this. Like I, because I'm, uh, I'm, I'm small, I'm quite short, And I mean, okay, I've got blonde hair, so I kind of stand out a little bit. But in the speed of the tracking, I've learned these really clever techniques about crossing a road. Because being small also, you can get easily missed walking across. So when I see somebody about to cross the road, be that a local or be that a couple or a group of people, I kind of jump in and join them just to create more bulk when you're crossing into that. And then my second technique is around picking my points. So there's no way I'm gonna cross five lanes or six lanes, et cetera. That's putting my life at too much risk. But maybe if I go further down the road, it'll be reduced to two lanes. And even though they might be merging, because there isn't lights or whatever, it means that there's less in that corner or less in that intersection. So then I can cross that with quite a good level of confidence. Meghann Grah : That's how I cross the street as well. And then both of us would also just try to be strategic around what vehicles were passing by. And if there was a larger car, you can kind of use them to block traffic for you in one way or another. So, yeah. But I did find that going with a group of people, whoever happens to be crossing, was the way that I felt most comfortable crossing the street. Zach was good to just go on his own. Kerry Newsome: Yeah. And because, see, the other interesting part about it is that people think, oh, there's cars there, so that gives it some sense and sensibility. It actually doesn't. The cars are the ones that can cause the most damage. And obviously they don't have quite the same agility as the bikes. The bikes often aren't going very fast. They're going probably about 40 K in some areas, maybe only 20 or 30 K. And plus they can stop, you know, like on a heartbeat where the car is bigger. The conversation I have with people around the people who drive the cars, is that some say people that are driving those cars are driving them like they're bikes, but being aware of the stream and the kind of car or bike or whatever that's coming down your way or coming towards wherever you are, this is kind of all happening in your brain at the same time, don't you think? You're picking your point, you're managing the whole situation around this would be a good time, this wouldn't be, let's wait. And so you're kind of adjusting to the environment without you realizing it, but it's kind of happening in the background of your brain. Meghann Grah : Yeah, definitely. I felt like it was, I wasn't ever so used to it that I wasn't realizing it. I was very much aware of being strategic and and choosing the right place and time. Kerry Newsome : And what happens with your brain once it starts adjusting to this, it also starts to become less sensitive to it. So you do become conditioned to it over time. You get into some kind of rhythm with it and it kind of calms down. I try to say to people, and we're going to talk about the food in a minute, but I try to say, just give yourself a few days. You will find there is, it might look like chaos, but it'll become organized chaos to you. And you will get to manage it so that it doesn't feel like such an affront every time you step out the door of the hotel. Would you say that's right? Meghann Grah: Yeah. Yes, definitely. And after you're there for a few days, you see how efficient the traffic is too. It's like, wow, everyone is getting to where they need to be and minimal delays, no stopping at stoplights. It's, yeah, it just flows. Kerry Newsome : And I like the, just the whole ease of it that you can get on the back of a bike. Like one time I stayed in a hotel and I wanted to get to a certain region. And it was kind of, oh, I could get an Uber and whatever. And I'm just chatting with the receptionist and I'm going, you know, I need to buy this. Where would I go for this and blah, blah, blah. She said, look, do you mind? I can actually take you. I'm finishing my shift. I've got a spare helmet. You can jump on the back. So literally, within minutes, I'm on the back of her bike. with the spare helmet that is from the other receptionist that's at the hotel. And then she's driving me through the traffic to get there and then pulls up right at, literally right in front of the glass door of the boutique that I wanted to go to. And I'm going, No parking station like two blocks away that you've got to pay with a machine to park your car or whatever. I'm going, I love this. A bit like Zach, you know, I was born for this. I'm going, I love this. This is, you know, kind of what really gave me a buzz. We're talking about, you know, ordering the food and things like that in Hanoi. How did you find adjusting to that? Meghann Grah : So I guess let's preface this. I have celiac disease, which means that I can't eat gluten, which is found in wheat and some soy sauce, stuff like that. So generally here in the US, I will look up a restaurant online and see what their menu is. you know, see if their hours say that they're open. Um, and just, just to know that I can like eat there. And, uh, so when we arrived in Hanoi, we did that and it's laughable now because the hours that restaurants say they're open on Google maps is not accurate like whatsoever. Uh, so we ended up just walking around and you find spots to eat, you eat, where places are busy, so food is turning over. Yeah, so that was my biggest thing. It was like, don't rely on Google to find restaurants. Just go walk and explore. And eating with celiac disease was really easy. One thing, you have to use very simple language. If I say, is this gluten-free, I'd get a weird look. Kerry Newsome : What are you talking about? Meghann Grah: Yeah, but if I said, is this rice or wheat? I would say like 75% of the time they'd say rice. I'm like, okay, cool. So it was very easy to eat having celiac. Kerry Newsome : What was your mainstay dishes as a celiac? What would be? Because I have the question come up a lot with people that have celiac or they want gluten-free or yeah. So this is really handy information, Meghann. Meghann Grah : Oh, good. I liked Bonsaio, the crispy pancake. Kerry Newsome: Love it. Meghann Grah: My favorite. To die for. Yes, it's so good. I think I ate that, I don't know, at least four times, if not more. Let's see. Oh, I think it's rose dumplings in Hanoi, or I mean, no, Hoi An. Kerry Newsome : Is that right? Rose dumplings? Yes, they're particular to that area, actually, the rose dumpling. Yes, I could live off of those. Meghann Grah: And yeah, just knowing that having dumplings at all is really cool and special because dumplings here in like the Seattle area almost always have wheat. So I haven't had dumplings in like 15 years since I became diagnosed. Kerry Newsome : So, because, yes, because I'm thinking a lot of what they make as far as like noodles are all rice flour. So that suits you perfectly, doesn't it? Meghann Grah: I honestly, I have not traveled anywhere that was like so easy to eat. A lot of pho, I loved that for breakfast. Yeah, just like spring rolls and stuff like that. Kerry Newsome : Yes, because it's good for vegetarians as well. Meghann Grah : We did a street food tour and it was really, really fun because we were trying things that we probably wouldn't have found on our own. and a lot of dishes, new dishes as well. But it also just gave us the confidence to try more street food and to be aware of what to look for. So I highly recommend that. It was really fun. Oh my god, we ate so much food. It was so good. Some of the bonseo we had on that street food tour, was better than the bon sale I found at a Michelin star restaurant later in the trip. Kerry Newsome : So in that, are you saying that it's probably a good idea to get on a tour or have a guide or whatever? Because I try to say this to people when I'm planning their trips. You don't know what you don't know. You don't know where you're going, whether or not it is the best place. It might say on Google. Do you really want to trust that? Meghann Grah : Yeah, I would say it's definitely worth it to book a food tour. you know, whatever kind of food tour you want. We wanted street food because that was like what we were most uncomfortable trying and wanting to learn about. And then our street food tour host also gave us lists of restaurants and dishes to try in the cities that we were going to next, which was Hoi An. And we would not have found one of the restaurants she recommended, like, you know, without her, you know, you walk into an alley and there's a restaurant there and that's like it was just full of Vietnamese people whereas like a block or two away it was restaurants on like the the main strip in Hoi An the night market street and those ones looked okay but they looked uh they were just obviously touristy and not the kind of experience we wanted And this restaurant was authentic. There were locals eating and obviously like great food. And our food tour host gave us specific dishes to try in each place. So we were like, okay, like, I don't know what that is, but it's on the list of food to try. So we have to do it. And that was really fun because we might not have eaten or tried those things had we not had that list to reference. What about seafood? Oh yeah. Gosh, we tried all sorts of stuff. There was a fish dish that we never caught the name of on the street food tour. When we were in Halong Bay, they served us lobster and shrimp. Kerry Newsome : It's amazing, isn't it? Back in Australia, lobster and crayfish is really expensive. I mean, it's good, but in Vietnam, it's just normal for people to order lobsters and crayfish. and it's so fresh because they've brought it in on the day. I love the food in Vietnam. Meghann Grah : The food is amazing and it's all so fresh. Here in the States, I'll buy groceries like once a week and you can tell that everything is, it's delivered that day. It was probably picked that day. And it's so fresh. It's a big difference. Kerry Newsome: It is. And I love how they use dining and having a meal together as a real celebration, like they really celebrate food. And you can understand from where they've come from over the years of hardship to really appreciate and there's a lot of gratefulness around food for everybody. So, you know, they do place a lot of emphasis and care about it and they love their food and they're really excited when you want to try it. And, you know, it's really a joy. How did you find just handling the pace and kind of, I guess, the social norms over there? Meghann Grah: I guess culture here in the United States is very busy, you're always on the go, you're always doing something. It was a huge contrast. The pace was very relaxed. It's normal to sit down at a restaurant for an extended period of time to eat your meal, or you can sit at a cafe with one drink for as long as you want. Yeah. We've been to Europe, so we've experienced that before, but it's still just as shocking experiencing it again after being out of that area for a while. So yeah, it was just very relaxing. And at first, it's hard to- Slow yourself down. Yeah, it's hard to slow yourself down and relax. But by the end of the trip, we were like, let's just go find a cafe and sit down and watch the traffic go by. And it was interesting because even though it was very relaxed and we had read that the culture was very go with the flow and timeliness is not emphasized or made into a big deal, like we had rides scheduled throughout the trip and every time we had a ride scheduled they were there like five minutes early so like they're very timely uh we had rides scheduled with um like different tour operators or guards yeah different tour operators and whatnot uh just because we had some some big rides so it was just interesting to have such like a relaxed culture but then like you know obviously you want your ride to be on time um we're like you know maybe maybe they won't be because the culture doesn't value timeliness as much but they were always early or at least on time like it was cool to be able to like depend on them when it was important but also to be able to like relax Kerry Newsome : If I think back to 10 or even 15 years ago, Vietnam had a much more relaxed approach to time. Schedules were flexible, delays were expected, and things just moved at a different rhythm. But today it's very different, especially in the major cities and key tourism areas. Vietnam's now handling a much higher volume of travelers with more organized tours, tighter logistics, and busier roads. As a result, operators have had to really sharpen up. Particularly the reputable ones have become far more punctual and professional in order to keep everything running smoothly and get everyone where they need to be on time. That's not to say it's the same everywhere. In a regional area, things can still feel very slow, more spontaneous. But in general, the country's pace has picked up and there's a stronger culture of time awareness than ever, ever before. So when Meghann talks about guides showing up early or tours starting right on time, that's not a fluke. It's actually a great reflection of how Vietnam's tourism industry is evolving and in many ways maturing. You do have to kind of pay attention, I think, to the local environment and get into the swing of that. Out of the places you visited, where did you spend the most time? Meghann Grah : Yeah, that was Phuong Nga. So our cave trip was Yeah, well, four days in the cave. It was like five days total. And then we had one extra day. We arrived one day early. So we had six days in Phong Nha. And the next place we stayed the longest was Hoi An. That's where we headed afterwards. And before the caves, we were in northern Vietnam and hitting up all the places. And we only stayed a day in each place. And it was exhausting. traveling between each place took longer than we anticipated. Google is not accurate again. I totally agree with you. I think if you're going to spend the time to get there, you should take a couple of days to enjoy it and get a sense of it. Kerry Newsome: The thing is, it takes you sometimes almost a big chunk of the day to get to the place. So you're arriving, you know, in the afternoon. So then you get the evening and then you get the day. But then at the end of that day, you're moving on and you go, God, you know, I just got here. Meghann Grah : The first half of our trip was too fast. And I, we loved getting to see Halong Bay and Ninh Binh. Um, but I like, we both agreed like, Oh, okay. If we would have had at least one extra night in each location, that would have been better. Kerry Newsome : And, and that's, I think, uh, the kind of, message I try to get to people about, you know, what you see on these websites and what you see. And even in some of the group tours where they're going, you know, it's like a bucket list of tick that box of, you know, Hanoi, Hoi An, Hue, Nha Trang, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, if you're doing all that in 12 days, it becomes a blur. People become exhausted. That's all they remember about the trip is the exhaustion, not the actual place. because they're kind of just seeing it through a very quick window. And I don't think it does the places justice either. Let's talk about climate, because if you've ever traveled in Vietnam, you'll know just how much the weather can shape your experience. Vietnam stretches a long way from north to south, and with that comes a lot of variation. You can be soaking up the sunshine in the south while it's still cool and misty in the north, or even caught in an early downpour somewhere along the central coast. For Meghann and Zach, they spend a good portion of their trip in Phong Nha, a stunning region known for its caves and lush landscapes. And they were there in March, which can be a bit of a transitional month. In fact, I was there 2024 and it was super hot, which wasn't characteristic for that time of year, but you get what you get. So, you know, March is not quite the dry season, not quite rainy, just that in between when things can shift quickly from warm and sunny to cool and damp. So, I was super curious, how did Meghann and Zac find adjusting to Vietnam's climate, you know, overall? And did their time in Phong Nha throw any surprises for them? Let's hear what Meghann had to say. Meghann Grah : Okay, so Zac does not do well in humidity, like heat and humidity. So, we chose to visit in March because, you know, in cooler climate, not too humid then. I think when we arrived in Hanoi, I think it was like really hot that weekend or something like that. I can't remember. It was like, yeah, or, oh, I think they had just had a heat wave and it was cold. Yeah. Um, but it was cold. So the locals were like bundled up and we're in t-shirts like, oh, this is too hot. Um, and I think it was 70 or It wasn't above 80, I don't think. But to us, it felt really warm. So it did feel like a heat wave coming from Seattle in winter, where it's no warmer than like 50 degrees in the winter in Seattle. That'd be warm. Yeah, it felt very hot to us. It still felt humid to us as well, even though it wasn't too horrible. So we had originally thought we'd spend all of our trip in northern Vietnam just so Zach wouldn't, you know, suffer in humid Vietnam. Spontaneously, I decided the last chunk of the trip after the caves, we'd go to Hoi An. I was like, you're just going to have to suffer. That's what we're going to do. Thankfully, they had a period of cool weather. Kerry Newsome : It was cold. I was there in March as well. It was cold. I had to buy a parka. It was freezing cold when I got there. It was early March when I was there. We were prepared. Meghann Grah : We had packed for all kinds of weather because the caves stay a certain temperature year round. So we needed warm layers for that. And then we were expecting warm temperatures. So we were totally prepared. We were really happy that it was cold while we were in Hoi An, but it was unexpected. Kerry Newsome : Yeah. I purposely don't go to Hoi An until I get that really nice temperature period, which is around March, April. this March, April of 25, it was really cold. Meghann Grah: Yeah, I did like plan that trip thinking, oh, we'll probably have a beach day. No, where are we going to the beach when it's this cold? So that did affect our trip. Kerry Newsome : If you were to talk to someone about their planning as a guide, what would you say about the North to the Central and talk to us a little bit about your Hoi An experience because Hoi An is getting a lot of traction these days and is becoming quite busy. That has a kind of a positive and a negative effect. So talk to us about the difference between the North and the Central area. Meghann Grah : Okay, so the first thing we noticed was the prevalence of English In Hanoi and the North, we were using Google Translate pretty often. If we got grab rides, they wouldn't speak English and yeah, so stuff like that. A lot of Google Translate. Kerry Newsome : Rural areas in particular, yeah. Meghann Grah : Yeah, and the farther we got, like down South in Vietnam, the more English was used and the more people knew English. So in Hoi An, we did not use Google Translate at all in Hoi An. And it was very touristy. Because it was cold, we didn't go to the beach. So it was like, there's a lot of shopping. So if you like shopping, go to Hoi An. Kerry Newsome : Tailoring in particular. Meghann Grah: Yeah, and we did get some tailoring done. So that was fun. And then we went to My Son's Sanctuary. Kerry Newsome : Marble Mountain. Meghann Grah : We didn't do Marble Mountain. The day that we would have done that, we went to My Son Sanctuary. And when we got back to town, someone was saying that it was foggy and they didn't see anything. So we were like, aha, we chose right. Excellent. But yeah, we just, it felt like Hoi An was much more touristy than like Phong Nha and Ninh Binh, even though like, Phong Nha and Ninh Binh, they have plenty of tourists there. But it seemed like the local towns catered to them less. In Hoi An, it's like everybody's trying to sell you souvenirs or food or whatever. And in Ninh Binh, you just got the local little grocery store, uh, tucked on the side of someone's house and all of the activities are very touristy and very popular, but it just felt different somehow. Kerry Newsome : It's a little shanty town. I mean, there's not much to Phong Nha at all. To me, it kind of, Phong Nha doesn't have any character of its own. It is there for the caves. It's the entry point to get on the boats and go into the caves and explore nature. To me, it's a nature town and you're going to be doing more things out on some bike rides and going up the Ho Chi Minh Trail and the caves and all of that kind of thing. The town itself is, it doesn't do anything for me, but the region, I love. I really love the region and there's lots of fun, the ducks. Did you do the duck stop? I probably didn't have time. Meghann Grah : We didn't, unfortunately, but we did ride bikes all over the place. Yeah, fabulous. Kerry Newsome : What would you say would be some of the things in your trip that you found the most challenging or the most difficult to overcome so that they can enjoy it more? Meghann Grah : I guess, yeah, just expecting it to be busy. And if you have a long travel day to get there, it took us about 20 hours to get there. So after that, you are going to be tired. Whatever city you land in, it is going to be overwhelming. And then just know that Yes, you're going to feel tired and overwhelmed, and then maybe the next day, that's when it starts to become much more fun. Kerry Newsome : So it's a bit in the planning? Meghann Grah : Yeah, and setting expectations. Just knowing if you have a long day of travel, it's going to be very tiring. Kerry Newsome : Is there any stories or areas that you feel are underrepresented that should be spoken about more? Meghann Grah : So we just talked about Phong Nha, but, and I agree, the town is very simple, but we felt like it was underrepresented just because there was so much history there. And that is where we spent the most time and got to, you know, chat with locals more so than anywhere else. So I definitely feel more connected to that area than elsewhere. It's just such a special area. The history with the American and Vietnam War is very intense for that area. If you look at a map that shows you what areas were bombed in the war, you will not see a spot that doesn't have a mark in that area. whole area was bombed. There's the Ho Chi Minh Trail that goes from Phong Nhat to Laos. We were told about how volunteers made that road during the war. They'd have scouts in what they called bird nests up in the trees. They'd send a signal like, there's a plane coming, which means there's bombs coming. the people working on the road would dive into little caves they had made in the side of the cliff to dodge the bombs. The plane would pass, bombs would hit, and then they'd come back out and continue working on the road to get supplies through that area. Kerry Newsome : It's amazing, isn't it? It just blows your mind. Yeah. I thought the same. Meghann Grah : told us about their fathers. Their father's job is deactivating bombs in the area. Kerry Newsome : Unexploded devices, yeah. Meghann Grah: And it's a career path to do that. There are still children and people finding bombs and landmines and getting hurt or killed from them today. Kerry Newsome: Or maimed. Meghann Grah: The history is very intense, and the people are so kind. Before we left for the caves, our guide is standing next to bombshells that are taller than I am. And, you know, showing us like these are bombs that were found here in Phong Nha. And they're like used as decoration, kind of, you know. But you can just tell that they're so proud of everything they've overcome. And they ended the conversation by saying, the war is over, we're happy now. Kerry Newsome: It's just so impactful. It is, it is. And I'm kind of glad, Meghann, that you got to experience that because I have as well. And it's quite, I don't know, I always feel quite moved by the capacity of the Vietnamese to forgive. They've had many an invasion of their country. They've had many countries try to take them over and yet they come back. And what's lovely about the country now, they've been without wars now for 50 years. So, you know, they've had some time to reinvent themselves, re-engineer themselves. So, some of the youth of Vietnam don't even really recognize some of the history. If you talk to some of them, they don't even know about the American war. They don't, you know, they kind of hear that from their grandfathers or their grandparents. So, you know, it depends what area that you're in. Some areas were more impacted from the other. You'll also get a different sense of it from the North Vietnamese to the South. The Southerners have another, you know, kind of voice on the subject. And of course, you know, a lot of vets come back to Vietnam to visit and kind of see the country and how it is at this, in 2025, in this era that they're living in. And, you know, it's remarkable how they have overcome and they're proud of their history and they're proud of their ability, I think, to overcome that. And I think a lot of that is to do with their religion. Also, most of the country is Buddhist. They just have a huge capacity and a wonderful spirit. And I always feel, I don't know, when I come back you know, to Australia and I see a lot of people whinging about stupid shit. I go, oh God, you know, like if you only knew how lucky, you know, we are to have what we have. Son Doong obviously is the queen of the tours. It is life changing as I've spoken to people. I've spoken to Howard Limbert on this show, who was one of the people that discovered Son Doong. So he was one of the British team of nine that actually stumbled upon it because it's not that old. My husband did the Tulane Cave Tour, which is kind of, it sits a little bit alongside the Son Doong Cave. I might even grab you on another time to talk about Sondung because it's pretty special. Anything you'd like to kind of add you know, like things you wish you knew about or, you know, that kind of thing. Meghann Grah : Yeah. I guess the last thing I'll mention is the best souvenir that we bought was a mixed bag of candy. And we just went to, I guess, I don't know what it's called in Vietnam, but we just kind of referred to it as like Candy Street. There's stalls with candy set out and they just have tubs. Kerry Newsome : Oh yeah, this is in Hanoi. Yes, yes. I have Candy Street and it's just one after another. Meghann Grah: Yeah, so we went to Candy Street and just filled up a bag and I think it They kept trying to get us to buy, I am thinking in pounds, a certain amount. And I think we bought like half of whatever they were suggesting. But just fill up the bag with anything that you think looks interesting because it's all going to be in Vietnamese or Thai or other languages. You have no idea what you're getting for the most part. So we just started filling the bag. After a little while, they started giving us samples, like, try this one. And we'd try it, like, oh, that one's really good. Take a handful of that. So when we got home, we shared that with our families. And we were thinking, this could be hit or miss. Either this is going to be really fun, or it's going to be terrible, and they're not going to like us. But it was really great. it was it felt like we got to share our love of travel of like trying new things and not knowing exactly what you're getting into um here at home it i think we got to share it with two different sets of people we thought like you know half a bag of candy is gonna last us like two weeks something like that no it lasted us like couple of days when we got home because everybody loved it. They were like, oh, I'll try this one. This one, you know, why is this one shaped like an orange? I don't know. Everybody loved it. It was really fun. It was a very interactive way to share our experience. Candy. Kerry Newsome : I have not heard that. That's, that's a new one, Meghann. Highly recommend. Candy in Hanoi. Yeah. Good to know. Any other advice you'd give people? Spend as much time there as you can. Okay, now tell people about your website. Meghann Grah : All right, so our website is TheGrahLife, it's T-H-E-G-R-A-H-L-I-F-E dot com, and you'll find us on social media under that name as well, on Instagram, YouTube, and Pinterest. And we've written about Son Doong, and Hanoi, and Everywhere that we've been to in Vietnam, we've got blogs on and packing lists and yeah, tons of information on Song Dong. So definitely look into that if you're going to hike. Kerry Newsome : And I really recommend people to visit their site. It's great. It's got some fabulous tips and I think it would be really helpful to anyone planning their trip. Thanks for being on the show. Meghann Grah Of course. Thank you for listening. Check out the Grah Life Vietnam here

40fb91b1-df13-4a4f-959b-2016c5181459Pgu Quoc is a highly sought after destination What About Vietnam - S3-24 Phu Quoc - An unbelievably scenic island paradise Kerry Newsome: 00:01 Xin Chào and welcome to “What About Vietnam ". I'm very excited because we're now going to be talking on this show in the present tense of being able to travel to Vietnam. Yes, I'm talking to you as of the 22nd of March. And we are just over a week into the country opening up to general tourism, I put a special document together for you to go to on my website: just hop on the website, go to this link . And it'll give you all the details that you need to know to understand just what the process is to enter the country. Some countries are exempt, and some are non-exempt. And pretty much the country's entry processes have gone back to really as they were prior to COVID, mainly. 00:58 Obviously, there's a few items that need to be ticked in the sense of: · Having a PCR test 72 hours prior to your flight. · Or a rapid antigen test 24 hours. And as long as they're negative, then you can enter the country with no quarantine required, you just need to monitor it for 10 days and download the app. So that's pretty much the basics of it. But I would hop on to get that guide. It's a PDF so you can print it off. And just make sure if you do need to get an E-visa that you go to the Vietnam’s official site for Visa Applications -, which I've listed for you. 01:41 Now, today, I'm excited also, because we're going to be talking about an island, which I'm not sure everybody kind of associates with Vietnam, but it is part of Vietnam. And that's the island of Phu Quoc. It is a very short plane ride from Ho Chi Minh City, in fact, only 45 minutes flight. And it actually is located in the Gulf of Thailand. So, in fact, it's really closer to Cambodia than it is to Vietnam. It's a beautiful island very well known for its beaches, for its beautiful corals and the opportunity to snorkel and etcetera, as far as activities are concerned, and it's also got some beautiful resorts that have come up in the last few years. 02:33 My guest today is Patricia Marques, and Patricia, I managed to catch just a week ago, before she was embarking on a trip to Phu Quoc, it's one of her favorite places to escape. She's got a very demanding job. She's the general manager for Starbucks in Vietnam. And she's been in that role for the last 10 years. So, when she does manage to get away, this is the place that she will jump on a plane and go to as her R&R vacation. 03:07 So, we've got lots to cover in the show she's going to share with you some of the things to watch out for. There's an absolute myriad of things to do or not do, as you choose. She's a seasoned traveler. So, she's got really good comparisons to know, just what to look out for and what's good to focus on. And we just got a lot to share. And I think you're going tolove it. And I'm hoping this is helpful for people both in Vietnam, and for people who are planning their trip, and maybe want to consider coming into Ho Chi Minh and just slipping across to Phu Quoc as a couple of days in R&R for possibly a long-haul flight home. Please welcome Patricia to the program as we talk about Phu Quoc. 04:03 Good morning, Patricia. How are you? Patricia Marques: 04:06 Good morning, Kerry. Doing great. Kerry Newsome: 04:09 That's terrific. Patricia, I think today we're going to get to explore one of your favorite destinations, if I may be so bold to say. It's definitely a beach destination, which I know is something that you're very keen on, and there's lots to explore in Vietnam of that nature. But we're going to focus on Phu Quoc, and I'm delighted to talk to you today because I know that you've just visited there. So, for my listeners, this is going to be super-duper up to date. So, I am talking to you, and it is the 17th of March 2022. The borders have just opened, so it couldn't be a better time to be talking Interview about this island. So firstly, tell us a little bit about why you love Phu Quoc so much, maybe over other beach destinations. So, talk to us a little bit about your love of Phu Quoc. Patricia Marques: 05:18 Sure, you are exactly right. I just came back from Phu Quoc on Sunday. And after a very nice two and a half days of a very short, but well-deserved holiday. We were working very hard like everybody and very excited about the reopening of Vietnam. So yes, I think it's a perfect timing. 1. The reason I love Phu Quoc, probably more than other places, other beaches in Vietnam, is how simple it is, fast, and the number of options I have in this island. So, it is 45 minutes away from Ho Chi Minh City, it is a super-fast flight, you have plenty of choices at what time of the day you want to fly. So that's my biggest, my first reason, probably because I just sneak out of my office, go to the airport, jump into a plane and get there. Super simple. 2. The second reason, as I said, because you have plenty of options. It is a well, good sized island, where the North is very different from the South, and so is the East from the West. So, you have different opportunities. 3. And the third reason is because of the ocean itself. It's a wonderful white sand beach. Kerry Newsome: 07:16 And it's interesting to talk about the position of the island and obviously when you see those sunsets and sunrises, etc., because the island actually lies off the coast of Cambodia, in the Gulf of Thailand. So, I guess getting your head around, just where the island is in relation to Vietnam because it's actually closer to Cambodia than it is to Vietnam. And it's a very small island, from what I understand, it's kind of made up of separate pieces, I think there's something like about 28 pieces of land. And it's roughly about 600 square kilometers. So, for a very small compact island as you say. 45 minutes in an aeroplane to get there. I think the other thing I liked about it was that the airport to your resort or wherever you're going is a very short drive. So, it's not kind of complex, getting out of the plane to the resort that's all very quick. So, I agree with you, I think that handy aspect, that if you're coming into Ho Chi Minh, in and you're looking for somewhere to either begin your travel or end travel in a very relaxing way, it's got a lot to offer. So, on that aspect, it does have a lot to offer. What are some of the to-do's that you would put up there as “must-dos?” Patricia Marques: 08:51 Let me clarify that the hotel where I usually go, I choose that because of convenience. It is 7 kilometers distance from the airport and makes it super easy to land on a Friday afternoon and get back on a Sunday evening. However, there are an enormous array of choices for hotels and resorts. So let me answer your question about different choices. If you go north-east of the island, there are a couple of big resorts known to accommodate families. They have recreational parks and a lot of activities for children, which makes it the best destination for families. If you go north-west of the island, that will probably take you a little bit over an hour on a taxi. You can visit a very large national park. Very interesting, very jungle-like, because, of course, of the weather that the island offers. There are other locations on the west side, meaning if you were in the west side of Phu Quoc, you would be looking at the ocean. And further. It will be Vietnam on the southern tip of your eyes and Cambodia right in front of you, to your point of how close it is to Cambodia. As a matter of fact, there are ferries to Cambodia. So, you can take a ferry and go to Cambodia. Kerry Newsome: 11:01 Is that a long trip too on that ferry? Do you know? Patricia Marques: 11:04 Yes, yes, it is five and a half hours something. Just because of where the port is. So, the port is located in the little bit south-west of the island. So convenient wise, if there was a port on the north-western side of the island, it would probably be a four-hour trip to Cambodia. There are two ports on the west side of the island. That makes it interesting to visit. There is also a factory where they produce fish sauce is very famous. Fish sauce, pepper and pearls come from Phu Quoc, and there are different tours to visit all of those. To visit the fish sauce factory, you have to really be willing to visit because it's a very smelly place. Kerry Newsome: 12:17 I've been, yes. Patricia Marques: 12:19 Yes. And then if you go towards the southern tip of the island, you will encounter small islands in the very bottom south of the island. Very interesting. And for those who visit the islands for diving purposes, this is the best location for that. Kerry Newsome: 12:45 Okay, so that's in the South because I know I've been talking to some people around some of the watersports in Phu Quoc, and yes, definitely diving and snorkeling and I think there's some nice boating trips, where they take you out for lunch for the day and things like that. The water looks absolutely beautiful. Patricia Marques: 13:07 Yes, there are plenty of those four- or five-hour tours that take you on a boat for snorkeling after, that makes it very interesting. Kerry Newsome: 13:21 Also note, you are mentioning the National Park. I understand that is very interesting as it features lots of like hiking trails and things like that. So, I think for the adventure traveler who's looking for some exercise, but then a lie on the beach later in the afternoon. That's definitely the go-to place for that. And I understand that there's also some waterfalls up in park or area, Suối. S U O I-- Patricia Marques: 13:54 Suối Tranh. Kerry Newsome: 13:56 Suối Tranh? Yes, that has a waterfall, I believe. Is that nice? Patricia Marques: 14:02 Yes, I actually have been there taking some friends. It's a nice hike to get to the waterfalls and is located not far away from the airport. So, if you plan your trip, to do some stops, it can make it very convenient to do those and then head to the airport. So, it's very easy to enjoy a weekend in Phu Quoc. Those are very highlights of why I particularly choose to Phu Quoc. When I want to get away from the hustle and bustle of Ho Chi Minh. Kerry Newsome: 14:45 I think the one thing I did note, when I went in, and I went back in like 2018. So, a while back and at that point in time. It was undergoing a lot of construction. So, there were cranes, and heaps of trucks and just a lot going on at that time. So, I wasn't particularly drawn to it at that point, because it just looked kind of a bit messy. And the other thing that struck me was I couldn't get a fix on the township side of it. Can you talk to us a little bit-- Vietnam is very well known for their towns and their markets, and things like that, but I couldn't get it-- I kind of didn't know where it started, or where it finished? Or is there really a township? What's your thoughts on that? Patricia Marques: 15:46 Yes, there is one. It is actually just north of where I stay. I stay in Long Beach. So Long Beach would be straight east from the airport. And it runs probably around 12 to 15 kilometers on the eastern side of the island, that piece of Phu Quoc is called Long Beach. And it ends in the town, in what we call Downtown Phu Quoc, if we might use very freely, that title of downtown. There is a small township where you will see the typical night market. You can head there for fresh seafood. At the very similar style than any night market food, night market of Vietnam or Southeast Asia for that matter, very similar. Kerry Newsome: 17:05 Do most people choose to go to these restaurants in the downtown area, or do they tend to move amongst resorts and try the resorts restaurants? Because one thing I got out of Phu Quoc from recent investigation was that there are some amazing five-star resorts that feature kind of signature restaurants and there's some Chefs moving into these areas as well, that are highly skilled. And so, I wasn't kind of sure, that's why I was glad to talk to you. Because: · Would you go to downtown? · Would you choose a particular restaurant, you might want to mention one if there is one or two there? · Would you eat in your resort? Because it's just convenient. And it's just lovely, and you're overlooking the water? · Or you might go to another resort? Because you've heard of that restaurant all that way. Patricia Marques: 18:06 That's an interesting question. I don't want to steer anybody away from visiting the night market, perhaps once, but there are no restaurants in that area, there are more like stalls, that get together for the market service. Kerry Newsome: 18:25 So, it's street food. Patricia Marques: 18:26 Yes, very much, street food. The seafood is alive. So, you can see like in Thailand, like many places in Southeast Asia, you can choose what you want to eat, and you know it's fresh. However, two things will probably steer me away from doing that often. One is you might be staying in the northern tip of the island or in the south. And then it would be very inconvenient to head there only for a dinner, because you would be in a car or on a motorbike for over an hour perhaps. And it's not worth it. You have so much, with regards to food choices that I wouldn't recommend anybody to go out of their way just to visit. You're absolutely right. Not only the hotels have amazing restaurants and many choices, but most likely outside your resort, you will find street food that is readily available within walking distance from your resort. Kerry Newsome: 19:48 Yes, and that's exactly what I got from my last investigation because, why would you go all that way. And the most ideal transport, I'm told, is a bike. And you might not choose to want to do that, or you're in a group and things like that, it's a bit harder to manage. So then if you're getting a taxi, it's an hour there and not that the taxis are expensive. But I just think for the effort when most everything you will want is at your doorstep of your resort or a walk along the beach not far from, because the resort is in some areas go back-to-back along the beach. So, I just thought that was an important point to note for everyone. Because people when they're trying to think about things, they’ll think of it in a logical sense, and think they'll go to downtown to a restaurant where, in this situation in Phu Quoc, it is not possibly the most ideal, yet, you probably should go and have a sticky beak once, depending on the length of your stay. For me, the most interesting was a couple of day activities I did, which was going to the pepper farms. And I came away with pepper. In fact, I've only just run out, so I really want to go back. But the pepper is amazing. As they have various mixes of it. They put it in chocolate. It's truly amazing. And I believe that as an exporter of pepper, Phu Quoc is quite famous. Patricia Marques: 21:37 Yes. And the plantations are very interesting. Aren't they? Very unique. The way pepper grows, and people don't necessarily know and why would they know? And they probably never been in a pepper plantation. But it's really beautiful. I agree. And that tour is very sought-after. Because of weather they have pepper year around. Kerry Newsome: 22:09 Yes. And I had a guest on my show, jumping from pepper back to fish sauce. She's a foodie, and she runs her own chef programs. And she's just so into Vietnamese cooking. And she was saying that the fish sauce from Phu Quoc is the premium fish sauce apparently. So, she was taking bottles of that away God, you wouldn't want that to break in your luggage? Would you- on your way home? So, in talking about your average stay on the island now, as you said; for a weekend, for two, it's ideal. Do you think that is the best amount of stay, two-three nights? Or should you allow more time? Patricia Marques: 22:58 I think it depends on what kind of traveler you are. If you're a solo or a couple, I think three days, two nights is probably perfect. And you don't have to go out of your way to make it longer. However, if you're with children, then you're probably have to go to the northern tip or the southern, where you have several hotels or resorts that cater to them. And that'll probably be worth staying a couple more days. Kerry Newsome: 23:38 Absolutely. And we can't not talk about Vinpearl Amusement Park. as a “wonderland” it's been referred to as Disneyland almost. So, for children for a family, you can definitely chew up a couple of days just going through that location. Another question I wanted to pose to you is just value for money. Do you think it is good value for money? Do you think the hotel stays; nights are well priced? Its food, alcohol, that kind of thing? Can you talk about that? Patricia Marques: 24:18 Sure. I consider it to be very, very reasonable. Once again, I'm going to go back to state how many choices you have. There's really an abundance of choices. Whether you go you're decide which part of the island you're going to visit. I am sure you can go from a five-star hotel all the way to renting a little studio or a one-bedroom Airbnb and be very close to the beach or close to the national park or the waterfalls. It depends on what is your liking, but I certainly consider it to be very reasonable. Considering the choices, you have, the choices in food, how fresh everything comes. I also wanted to add to one of your questions that, in my last couple of trips, I've noticed that there is an abundance of activity happening in front of the beaches. So, if you were to just come out of your beachfront hotel, and walk north or south on the beach site, you will run into little cute bars and barbecue, little stalls. So, you can literally have different experiences while not venturing far from your hotel. Kerry Newsome: 25:58 And that I think, is ideal. I think that's perfect. And to me that's getting very stylized to Nha Trang, where you really- you're not wearing shoes, you're walking on the sand and you just keep walking and then all of a sudden, pop up! there is some locals that have put something together there that you can eat or whatever. And the food's always delicious and fresh. And yeah, that's sort of kind of where I was leading to where you don't necessarily have to go to downtown. For me, there wasn't a lot there. I've been to night markets. And I didn't really, I bought some pepper, more pepper there. But you know, it didn't really- wasn't a draw card for me. Can we just let everyone know about the weather? Now it's March now. So, you went just last weekend. So, do you have some like. “best times” of the year that you choose to home in and say, "I really want to go those times, because they're the best", and you try and sneak your weekend there. Patricia Marques: 27:06 So, Vietnam in general has- the southern part of Vietnam has the very hot weather, very hot and humid the rainy season. Phu Quoc is similar, and until April, you can be sure that you will have nice long hours of sun without being interrupted by scattered storms or rain. However, in probably April, if the weather continues the way it's supposed to be, April, May, you will start with a rainy season, all the way to October, November. It doesn't mean that you don't have the opportunity to enjoy the beaches. The rain in Vietnam is different than in other countries of Southeast Asia, we don't have continuous rain. It rains every day, maybe a couple of hours. But we don't have days of rain. So, your holiday will not be ruined by one of those, unless there is a specific storm coming. But I wouldn't doubt going to Phu Quoc any month of the year, considering that during some months you will encounter rain. Kerry Newsome: 28:43 And I think that's a reality check for everyone. I think you're right. I think sometimes, you will choose not to go to a place because you think, it's going to ruin your whole stay. But it usually, means you can stand in a restaurant, you see the rain coming down, you finish your coffee and it's all over. So, you can get those kind of flash downpours and then you can go on your merry way. Just another question Patricia, I wanted to add, which I think is relevant to is, you're an attractive woman traveling, possibly solo on this trip, what's the safety aspect for people moving around the island? Do people have to be really on their guard or how did you find it? I'll share with you how it was for me. Patricia Marques: 29:41 I have never encountered a problem. Literally never. Probably, because I'm here for such a long time. Pretty comfortable and I know my way around. So, I know where to venture and where probably not to. However, you mentioned before how much construction was going on when you visited in 2018. Which means, of course, that there is a large number of new developments that have happened recently, and some are done beautifully. Others probably encroaching a little bit too much on the water side- on the seaside. But this promotes, of course, people relocating to the island, there some permanent residents, much more than 10 years ago, definitely. So, it has changed. However, I have not been in a situation where I would say, I felt threatened or I was robbed, or no. Kerry Newsome: 31:09 Yes, and that was my experience as well, I had to go through quite a few hotel inspections to have a look at some various properties and obviously go out and have some certain experiences, so that I could say that I've been there and, could speak to it with some attention to detail. So, you're right, I found the staff very helpful, the guidance, very helpful, the tour was very knowledgeable. So, I can only imagine that has improved, although there has been some talk in hospitality industry circles, that it's been hard to find the manpower back into Phu Quoc, and to ramp things up, because as you would be aware, Phu Quoc was the island that Vietnam designated, it would open up as a sandbox entry to Vietnam for foreigners back last year. And I think that maybe helped it expand and grow and increase the manpower to meet new tourism. But I just wondered, what was your experience with staff and the quality of service, just the care factor, I guess. Patricia Marques: 32:32 Sure. I happen to think that has improved throughout the years, my first visits to Phu Quoc, 11 years ago, I can say that it was very basic, and catered probably to a very basic tourism in general. Things have improved, and you still have those choices. Not all hotels, for example, have TVs, or they actually cater to a more natural and more organic traveler. But nowadays, there is an abundance of good choices. 3, 4, 5-star hotels, you don't have to be the most expensive. And I think that maybe because of that demand and the number of hotels, hotel owners and operators do take very good care of their people. Because there is enormous competition. So, you actually see, and you can talk to them. And they will be very chatty and share with you that-- kids in my hotel have been there for three, four years. And they would not go because they were very well taken care of during the pandemic, for example, when most lost their jobs, I think Phu Quoc was very smart in keeping them. I understand many hotels gave them room in-board. So, they felt safe and protected. So those hotels are now reaping the benefits of loyal employees. Kerry Newsome: 34:36 That's really great to hear Patricia because you're right. I think there was a lot of confidence lost in the industry with hospitality where many people were laid off because, if you can imagine pre the pandemic, I think Vietnam was receiving over 18 million tourists to the country. Where- it's been less than 3 million over the last two years. So just one last thing I wanted to talk about was, the dogs. Can you talk-- I'm not going to say anything else, I'll let you talk about the dogs. Patricia Marques: 35:19 Yeah, there is the famous Phu Quoc breed that is originally from Phu Quoc, andvery sought-after. I love dogs, and I happen to have a couple of friends that own Phu Quoc dogs. It's a beautiful animal. It's supposed to be a big guardian. It is a guard dog, and it can be threatening just to look at them. But they're beautiful. Kerry Newsome: 35:56 I also love dogs, but I found the quantity of them and their unique physique, having the ridged back. So, it's kind of a distended spine almost, that runs down the middle of their back. So, you're right, they can look quite fierce and intimidating, but as you say, with their owners, and with the people, they can act as a little bit of a guard dog, but you'll find them roaming around and they are treated with great respect. So, it was just something I wanted to mention. I can remember saying to my boss on the trip, I said, "Gosh, where are all the dogs coming from? And how unusual are they?" And so that was just kind of a story I thought was worth mentioning. Any things we should really watch out for? Do, OR not do? Patricia Marques: 37:00 Maybe consider that, because it's an island. Most of the ingredients are seaworthy, you will be eating lots of fish and seafood. So, to those that do not consume seafood or fish, I guess my recommendation would be to steer towards the four- and five-star hotels, that they probably have an assortment of other dishes. Definitely, what you will see and find in street food will be seafood base. The fruit is wonderful in general, and Vietnam has plenty of fruits and vegetables, and they are delicious, fresh, they might not look as pretty as other countries, where they probably cater more to the visual. But the fruit and vegetables in Vietnam are absolutely delicious. Kerry Newsome: 38:13 Yeah, and I've never tasted fruit like it is in Vietnam, you can actually taste the flavor. I feel like in my country, the supermarkets and the fruit stalls, etc. Here, you can have a tomato, or you can have another piece of fruit and you're struggling to get flavor out of it, it's just got so many chemicals on it. So, I think people will love the fresh fruit. And I think you're right, I think five-star hotels would offer more variety and probably more Western food options. If you're traveling with a family. And they don't like this, but guess what, they do chips, so as long as they do chips, we are all good. Patricia Marques: 38:59 They do chips and they do pasta everywhere, so, kids are safe. Kerry Newsome: 39:05 Exactly. Okay. Patricia, thank you so much for coming on. I was glad I caught you just at the right time just before your trip and your photos look fantastic. So, I'll make sure that I share those on the website. And hopefully I look forward to maybe catching up with you later in the year at Starbucks. Patricia Marques: 39:28 I hope so Kerry, I look forward to everybody coming back to Vietnam. We certainly miss all that hustle and bustle that the tourists bring, and I hope everybody enjoys beautiful Phu Quoc and wonderful Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: 39:50 Thanks a lot. Patricia Marques: 39:51 Thank you.

ec8280d1-e874-4b14-8ce4-6df2779388afJeremy Stein takes us diving in the best locations What About Vietnam – S3- 6 Diving in Vietnam - Everything you need to know 2021 & beyond Kerry Newsome: [00:00:35] Xin Chao and welcome to what about Vietnam? Today, we take a deep dive literally into Vietnam with my guest, Jeremy Stein. Jeremy is an English guy who came to Vietnam about 25 years ago, and, kind of never left. He fell in love with Vietnam and set up originally in Nha Trang. He is an English-trained Padi course director, and in his twenty five years in Vietnam, he has set up over five dive centres and trained thousands of people in the skill of diving. Kerry Newsome: [00:01:18] He has a lot to offer people who may consider coming to Vietnam as a destination to do diving; to learn, diving or to have diving as part of your holiday experience. Because, as he says, you can add to a diving holiday so many other things because just of what Vietnam has to offer. He has some tremendous information about what you're going to see in species under the water, coral and just, you know, best times of the year. It's a really informative session today. And I think for anyone who maybe hasn't ever thought about coming to Vietnam to dive, you're really going to be surprised at just what there is on offer. Please welcome Jeremy to the program. Jeremy Stein: [00:02:20] It's great to be here Kerry Newsome: [00:02:23] Now, Jeremy, tell us, just how did diving start as a sport in Vietnam? Talk to us a little bit about that. Jeremy Stein: [00:02:32] Ok, well,25 years ago, I was living in Saudi Arabia and decided to take a two-week holiday trip to Vietnam. Flying into central Vietnam reminded me a lot of flying into Cairns when I dived there a few years earlier. In Nha Trang, in Vietnam, there was no organized diving, but it did have a pretty laid-back hut on the beach, offering some infrequent daily diving. I convinced the people to take me diving every day and just loved it. And at the end of the two weeks, I decided not to return to Saudi and actually took over the beach huts and set up there. Then I became the first PADI dive centre in Vietnam. From there, I just continued exploring the rest of the country underwater and opened up five other centres over the years. So now, when it's rainy season in one part of the country, there is always somewhere else in the country with great diving conditions. Kerry Newsome: [00:03:32] Ok, then, I mean, Nha Trang is a nice place to start from what I remember from my visits to Nha Trang three or four years ago, so very pretty spot. Jeremy Stein: [00:03:45] Yeah, absolutely, yes, yeah. Kerry Newsome: [00:03:48] Ok, so you said there's several other places around the country, I mean, my experience is pretty limited as far as diving is concerned. My experiences to Hoi An and was going out to the Cham Islands, that's as far as it extends. Talk to us a little bit about the expansiveness of the diving, like the marine life that you can expect to see, because I would think that would be of particular interest to a diver. Jeremy Stein: [00:04:23] Yeah, absolutely. Sure. I mean, Vietnam diving will never compete with your Great Barrier Reef or places like SIPADAN OR GALAPAGOS. But I guess what it does offer is some safe and fun diving in an amazing country. I've always promoted Vietnam as not just about the diving. But a complete cultural experience. For example, in Nha Trang, as you mentioned, We have over three hundred and fifty different species of corals, that’s actually more species than you’ll find on the Barrier Reef itself. However, we don't regularly have THE BIG PELAGICS but the marine life which abound on coral reefs here are awesome. The macro marine life here is excellent. So from frog fish to sea moths, ghost fish, gurnard lionfish, snake eels, as well as usual, suspects like cuttlefish, octopus, mantis shrimp and of course, lots of NEMOS [00:05:19] nemos Nudibranch lovers will be in paradise here. We've got hundreds and hundreds of species and so many unrecorded [00:05:30] Kerry Newsome: [00:05:31] So for the inexperienced diver, what would you suggest then as far as best locations? And would they be diving or would they be snorkeling to enjoy these dive sites? All these locations? Jeremy Stein: [00:05:51] Both, of course, in between dives. If they are diving, they can snorkel as well. And most of the sites throughout Vietnam are perfect for all level of divers and snorkelers. If we just briefly look at each destination, Nha Trang, as we've said, is the home of diving in Vietnam and all diving takes place on HON MUN Island, which is a marine park. We established 15 years ago and there's about 10 different sites. So those of you who've read about Vietnam or been to Vietnam will remember some of the iconic names like [00:06:25] Moray Beach, Tiger Wall, Debby's Beach, Madonna Rock. The Electric Nose is probably the only site in the Trang which Wall Dives down to about 40 metres. About two hours north of that Nha Trang, you've got a remote eco-resort, which is called Whale Island. It's definitely far from the madding crowd and total relaxation. We've actually dropped a couple of small wooden wrecks in the bay down in about 12, 14 metres. So the beach diving's really cool there as well. And you mentioned we got HOIAN with Cham Island and the surrounds. It's pretty much in the middle of Vietnam and offers very similar diving to that trying. CON DAO Island is about two hundred and fifty kms south of Saigon. It's remote and .... Actually Last week, we're diving there around 30 metres. We found a wreck. So lots of exploring still to do there to find out what it is, ie what it did, how long it's been there? But fascinating stuff. Finally, Phu Quoc Island. This is three hundred and fifty kilometres west of Saigon. It's actually in the Gulf of Thailand, just off the Cambodian coastline, but still very much a Vietnamese island. It offers safe, easy diving. Kerry Newsome: [00:07:59] Yeah. And just to go back on a couple of those places, was Whale Island originally only open to Vietnamese? Jeremy Stein: [00:08:09 ] Originally Yes, I think that changed as part of the fame of the place. As this is where Jacques Cousteau actually moored his boat and did some diving, [00:08:21] though, from the Calypso. [00:08:22] But, yeah, initially it was very much a Vietnamese island for Vietnamese, but that's very much changed now. And over the years, it's probably 60 percent foreigners and 40 percent Vietnamese. So it's a nice cultural mix. Kerry Newsome: [00:08:40] Yeah, oh, that's good to know about Con Dao. My Vietnamese is shocking. I'm sure that's not even how you pronounce it, but they seem really nice resorts or beautiful hotels that are starting to spring up on that island. So that makes for a nice break in the afternoon. Jeremy Stein: [00:09:02] Absolutely. The world-famous hotel chain of Six Senses. They've probably been there six, seven years ago. Pretty expensive, but pretty remote. Pretty exclusive, very nice. But it's a total mix of accommodation on the island. You've got the Six Senses, which is US Dollars about a thousand dollars a night out. But you have still got the backpacker places from $20 bucks to 50 bucks a night. 4 * up to Hundred dollars a night. It's a good mix. Kerry Newsome: [00:09:45] Traditionally, Vietnam hasn't been highlighted as a destination for water sports, but it's certainly coming of age, don't you think? Jeremy Stein: [00:09:55] Yeah, indeed, it's a shame because one of the first things I did when I moved to Vietnam twenty five years ago was travelling to the world trade shows or the dive shows, putting up a big Vietnamese flag and talking about Vietnam as a new destination. I must admit, in the Americas, it did upset a few people having a big yellow and red flag there. But now, since then, we've had a lot of those people I've met at all these different exhibitions around the world visit Vietnam and been very surprised and very happy. Kerry Newsome: [00:10:29] And for my listeners, I'm sure there's a mix amongst them that are serious divers, that are kind of leisure divers. And then there would be the total novices that would consider coming to Vietnam and maybe using Vietnam as an opportunity to learn diving. Can you talk to us a little bit about that, about the opportunity to learn? I mean? Jeremy Stein: [00:10:57] Absolutely. We are the PADI flagship here in Vietnam, a lot for the complete range of [00:11:03] PADI courses from the initial TRY dive [00:11:06] and the open water course right up to the divemaster, instructor, staff instructor courses. [00:11:12] The tri dives [00:11:13] can be done in one day, and [00:11:14] the open water course in three or four days. The advance course is two days. And the dive master and I'd see IDC that's the instructor course take from two to three weeks a popular option for the professional level courses like Divemaster. And an instructor is to take the courses as an internship and spend three to six months diving and learning on all the courses. PADI Now have the facility to learn online, which means that you can complete the theory before coming here and not, say, spending a day in the classroom while you're on holiday. [00:11:49] Kerry Newsome: [00:11:50] Hmm, sounds like a good idea so that you can do the online part of it before you come, and then you take them out after that when they arrive here? Jeremy Stein: [00:12:02] Absolutely. Yes. Kerry Newsome: [00:12:05] Ok, so, you know, I've always thought diving was such a speciality and was only for the hearty and the fit swimmer. And so I kind of never went there. Not that I'm not fit per say, but I always felt that it was for the adventurer that was prepared to do that kind of thing. So explain for us just the person or type of person that best suits diving and diving in the locations that they're coming to in Vietnam. I guess where I'm coming from, Jeremy, with this is that I'm sure there's some sites around the world that would only be for your serious diehard Diver, where maybe Vietnam offers sites that aren't going to be for the diehard diver. They are more for a leisure diver or one that just wants to have a holiday, enjoy it, etc.. I'm trying to get that difference if you know what I mean. Jeremy Stein: [00:13:16] So the leisure diver sums it up nicely. This can be the people who've made 10, 20 dives or a thousand dives plus and still enjoy the diving. As I said, all of the sites are suitable for both ends, from the novice up to the professional diver. For example, we actually get groups of photographers from the US, from Australia, who as a group, they'll be eight or 10 of them who will come armed with the photography equipment. And they've got a wish list of things they haven't seen, but they want to be able to photograph. They always leave with all of their list ticked and a few more added, which they didn't even know they wanted. So we can pretty much cater for whatever people want. If you want shallow safe, easy diving, we can do that. Some of the more adventurous dives, like I said, [00:14:18] the Electric Nose in NHA TRANG or the Three Kings and Whale Island. [00:14:22] Yeah, these are a little bit more adventurous and therefore experience matters. But whenever we take anyone diving, we always check how many dives they've made. When was the last dive so that we can gauge what sort of experience they've got and we will plan dive sites suitable for them. Kerry Newsome: [00:14:45] Oh, and that's a really good thing to know, because I know myself, if I was going out, I'd really want to know that people knew my skill level and what I was capable of so that I could confidently go out there to have a good time. It was going to be a good all-around experience. So that's good to know. Jeremy, talk to us a little bit about the safety side of things as far as diving is concerned. Jeremy Stein: [00:15:12] Ok, as I say, PADI have very strict guidelines and standards that must be followed, mainly for the safety of the students. Of course, safety, for the staff also is one of my major concerns as well. All the staff are professionally trained. They know what they're doing. I have a full team of senior PADI instructors working with me. Also, over the twenty-five years I've trained quite a few Vietnamese up to instructor ratings. [00:15:49] So everybody is aware of what they need to do at any given time, whether it's on the bus, on the way to the harbor, whether it's getting from the harbor onto the boat or on the boat, heading out to the dive sites. There are strict safety procedures in place. We like to take people diving, but it's also pretty important to bring them back as well, Kerry Newsome: [00:16:15] Kind of in the same condition that they left. Jeremy Stein: [00:16:18] Yeah Hopefully in a happier condition. Kerry Newsome: [00:16:23] Absolutely. I was thinking more about the Kerry Newsome: [00:16:27] Equipment level, the kind of boat experience, because, you know, you look at some boats out there and you think, oh, would that get me out there very safely? And would it, get me back? I'm not sure about that. So I know under the PADI flagship, obviously, to be qualified to do this, you'd have to tick all the boxes. But maybe you can just speak to people anecdotally about making sure that when they see that trip online, that they ask the right questions for sure. Jeremy Stein: [00:17:04] Certainly for the first couple of years when I was organising diving from my laid back beach huts in Nha Trang, the boats were pretty much we had to do with what we could get. Which on some occasions there wasn't a suitable entry platform. So it was a back roll from a fairly high-end, high-sided, I suppose, you'd call them fishing boats. Jeremy Stein: [00:17:30] However, over the years, with diving, directly and indirectly, being a multi,-million dollar tourist industry, the boats now are made in Vietnam still with the emphasis on looking like a fishing boat, but they are designed with dive safety in mind. So they all have dive platforms. They will have ladders, they have cages around the propellers. You've got state rooms on the boats, [00:18:04] you've got toilets, you've got showers. They'll take about twenty five to thirty customers at any one time and that includes about 10 to 15 staff. We always make sure that when we're teaching or when we're guiding, we have pretty strict ratios of maximum of four divers in a group with that dive guide or with their instructor. Now, this is well, well within any international standards, but it's something I felt was right 20 years ago. And I still feel it's right now that are we err on the side of caution. [00:18:40] Kerry Newsome: [00:18:46] Who who's driving these days, Jeremy Stein: [00:18:49] Traditionally over the last twenty, twenty five years? Foreigners with very few Vietnamese; the clientele were mainly backpackers looking quite surprised that they'd find somewhere in Vietnam to go diving. Now, I would say sixty five seventy percent of diving is all pre-booked online and the ratios have changed quite dramatically, I would say. Seventy five percent would be foreigners. That includes the resident expats here with twenty five percent being made up of the Vietnamese divers. [00:19:35] That’s partly down to us having trained the Vietnamese to dive master level and instructors. So they've now opened their own dive centres. They need to now do their own promotion and we all work fairly closely together on this. Jeremy Stein: [00:19:51] But certainly, since COVID, where we've not had the luxury of seventy-five to eighty percent of tourists coming in. We've developed quite successfully the expat market here and the Vietnamese market, so we can still offer diving to them. Jeremy Stein: [00:20:12] One of the centres I didn't mention we have and that's actually a city centre location is in Saigon or HCM city. Obviously, it is landlocked, apart from the river which runs through it. But we use it to teach CLASSROOM-WORK for all PADI courses. And we have swimming pools here so we can teach people the basics of diving. Then when they've got there, they can come down to an island location and spend two or three days finishing the course and getting certified. [00:20:48] It's also a great excuse for the expats before they head off on their exotic holidays to the Barrier Reef or Sipadan Bay area. They can get in the pool here, spend a session, get refreshed, get comfortable with their skills again. Kerry Newsome: [00:21:02] Oh, that's fantastic, and Jeremy, talk to me about the the cost to do these courses or to to go diving, I mean, there is sometimes a label that Vietnam gets that everything in Vietnam is cheap. It isn't quite right anymore, and I think you pay for what you get, but tell us just a little bit about how it compares. I mean, if you do diving, I mean, you can't even rent a surfboard in the Maldives without it costing you for fortune. So if we could just do some comparisons for people so they can know whether it's affordable. Jeremy Stein: [00:21:44] Sure. I believe we offer value and safety for money. A great analogy I would use, first of all, is if you came to a third world Asian country and wanted to do a parachuting class, would you really choose the cheapest option? I don't think so. Kerry Newsome: [00:22:06] So. Jeremy Stein: [00:22:07] Scuba diving for certified divers, which is around seventy-five U.S. for two fun dives, including equipment compared to the rest of Asia. I think that's excellent value for money. And the good thing is a lot of divers are realistic about safety because when they see some of these smaller local dive centres offering the same same but different diving for half that price, they're not stupid. They realize that it's too cheap. Yeah, people don't want just cheap, as we've said a couple of times, they want to go out to dive, enjoy the experience and come back in the same state as when they left. Jeremy Stein: [00:22:53] A PADI open. water course over four days will cost you around four hundred to US Dollars. And an instructor course will cost you around Twelve hundred US Dollars, which is pretty much in line with the rest of Asia. But as I said, we've got maximum numbers in groups which make the experience also more realistic, safe, comfortable. I personally, I still hate going to places like SIPADAN where there's a young divemaster and there's twenty five people following him. Yeah, that's not right. So I tend to err on the side of caution and safety. Kerry Newsome: [00:23:38] Yeah, they're my favorite words when it comes to things like that, and I'm sure it is for a lot of people listening. Talk to us a little bit, Jeremy, about the best time of the year to come to Vietnam. You mentioned you know, the various sites around the country. I mean, Vietnam's that long, skinny dragon. And, you know, top to bottom it is different as we go along. But maybe you could speak to some of those locations and give us the best time. In other words, if we want to go to Nha Trang. When would be the best time to go? Yeah. Talk to us a little bit about the best times for each region. Jeremy Stein: [00:24:20] Ok, as you say, it's a long, skinny country. It's actually about 3200 kilometers of coastline and therefore it does have different seasons. Nha Trang, Hoi An, and Whale Island are best in February to October for that diving and for the weather conditions. Nha Trang is open and dives all year, but we're realistic if people are looking to book in the rainy or the quiet season we will advise them realistically what the conditions are.... What the water temperature is, what the visibility is. And for a lot of people, if they're coming from Europe, then the conditions, we're saying, well, you've only got a few metres visibility. That's luxury to them. They are used to diving in zero visibility where it's basically brail diving. The diving, you only know by what you feel. Con Dao is beautiful from March to September and then Phu Quoc comes into its own from September through to April. So as I said earlier, 12 months of the year, you can dive through Vietnam. And one of the things we find with people coming to Vietnam, if they're spending a week, 10 days diving, then in one location you're going to get a little bit bored with the options. Jeremy Stein: [00:25:50] [00:25:50]I would always recommend a multi destination holiday. Yeah, Nha Trang and Whale island are the perfect combination. Nha Trang, Whale Island and Hoi An works very well. Now because of the rural location of Con Dao, it can make the trip a little bit longer because you need to add in a couple of days flights in between the islands. [00:26:22] Jeremy Stein: 00:26:22] Nha Trang Whale Island is such a great combination because you can dive 2 Dive's in the morning in Nha Trang and have lunch.... Hop onto a bus, which takes two hours to get up to Whale Island. You can do an afternoon beach dive and a night dive in the same day, and then you stay there for a few days. And if you're really serious, you come back to Nha Trang and do a couple of dives again on the way back. Kerry Newsome: [00:26:44] Good to know those combinations, because you're right, you could get bored just sitting in one spot, but to connect Nha Trang and Whale Island that's really interesting. And from what I understand also in Nha Trang they've developed, kitesurfing and some other watersports that you could add to your diving or your water sport kind of holiday, right? Jeremy Stein: [00:27:13] Absolutely. Yes. So if you're looking at kitesurfing, jetskiing, that sort of stuff, it's all available from the beach. They've got regular hydrofoils going across. And you've got a big sort of fun park there with an aquarium. Yes. So you either love them or hate them, but tourists do flock there. Kerry Newsome: [00:27:44] In Nha Trang, also, there's a really nice beach scene, isn't there, like beach bars in really nice kind of casual, you know, like this. There's a nice vibe there, I think, to absolutely. Jeremy Stein: [00:28:02] It's a great metropolis. It's a busy seaside city destination with some stunning bars and restaurants. Hotels range from six star to the local backpacker dormitories. And certainly twenty five years ago, the skyline was very, very different to what it is now. Back then if you wanted to stay in a four star hotel, you had one choice, and a five star, one choice. Now, I think at the last look, and I haven't been diving there for a couple of weeks, there are probably close to one hundred, a hundred and fifty -four and five star hotels there, not many of them full at the moment. So some great deals to be had. Kerry Newsome: [00:28:45] Absolutely. Absolutely. Just before I forget, tell us about the night diving. That sounds intriguing! Jeremy Stein: [00:28:55] It's something which after you've done it, you either love it or you're glad to have ticked the box. Yeah. Basically, you're diving. It's recommended the same site that you've been to in daylight. But of course, it's dark. So you're not going to see anything unless you have a pretty good light. So you're underwater with your underwater light, swimming around, looking at things that people say. Why do you want to dive at night? It's pretty much like Sydney in the in the daytime, you're going to see a certain type of person doing certain things. And then as soon as it gets dark, you've got a totally different type of person out on the streets of Sydney doing different things, exactly the same underwater. Kerry Newsome: [00:29:53] Have you got any great tips that people should think about before they book their holiday. While everybody's doing everything online, just things people should look out for. I'm going to put all your links in the show notes, so people can deal with you directly. But maybe some questions that they need to ask themselves. If they're coming as a family, if they're coming as a couple or just solo travelers, just things that they should keep an eye out for while they're making decisions and trip planning. Jeremy Stein: [00:30:25] Yeah, I mean, the list would be extensive. As with any trip, it's being realistic. With everyone having access to the Internet these days. Any questions you want to ask? Isn't the answers available on the Internet? And if you don't find the answer you want, you just keep asking the same question and then take the answer you want. Jeremy Stein: [00:30:51] Personal feedback is invaluable. And as you say, you're going to put the links in the show notes. And I'm happy to talk to anyone at any time about the country itself, the diving here and also some of the surrounding Asian countries, which also have excellent diving. I've dived most of the Asian countries and quite a few of the other glamorous places around the world. But the personal contact being able to actually email somebody who's there and say, hey, should I do this or what's a must do thing? It helps a lot. And as I say, the Internet is wonderful, but you can find the answer you're looking for if you ask the question often enough. Kerry Newsome: [00:31:38] I agree totally. And I think that the personal aspect is a big thing. And talking to somebody that you can trust, that you feel has got a lot of history in the place and reputation. And that's why I was glad to have you on. Because you have had that experience and reputation. Look, great to have you on. Won't take up any more of your time. Thank you again for your time and information. Everyone that's listening, I'll be able to put Jeremy's information in the episode notes. You can go to the website at www.whataboutvietnam.com and a page will be there devoted to this episode. You can always reach out to me any time and I will put you in contact with the right people. Thanks again, Jeremy, for being on the show. Jeremy Stein: [00:32:25] Ok, Kerry, lovely to see you and hope to meet up for a cold one in Vietnam soon. Kerry Newsome: [00:32:30] Absolutely.!!! Check out the episode notes. See the page on the website - www.whataboutvietnam.com Speaker1: [00:32:32] Don't forget to subscribe, write and review and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam. What about Vietnam!

a49788fb-0cb3-4201-bdcd-7bee9e2f767bExploring the threaded history of textiled in Mai Chau Explore Mai Chau and its threaded history Episode 5 Explore Mai Chau and its threaded history 00:00 / 23:37 Mai Chau is an up and coming place of interest in Vietnam and one I had the privilidge of visiting a few years ago. Howveer my guest Cynthia Mann is a regular visitor to this region and amongst the craziness of 2020, she was able to do a quick trip there to purchase new fabrics and items for her showroom called Future Traditions. Now Mai Chau is one of those places a little off the grid. About three hours out of Hanoi, but it is absolutely wonderful experience. Specially if you are looking for a place in Vietnam that is steeped in the history of local minority groups; Mainly the the Hmong people and the Thai people in particular. Cynthia has some lovely aspects to share in this episode so I hope you will love hearing about this very up and coming tourist location with a very eco style to it. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

5497c6da-0f62-4f67-8da4-fe3c637ff35dTravelling Vietnam for the first time? Vietnam Travel First Impressions Episode 9 S1-E09 Vietnam Travel First Impressions 00:00 / 53:49 Ever wondered what it’s like to set foot in Vietnam for the first time? In this episode of What About Vietnam, I’m joined by Meghann – one half of the travel blogging duo behind The Grahlife – as she shares her and her husband Zach’s first impressions of Vietnam during their adventure in March 2025. From landing in Hanoi to trekking the famous Son Doong Cave, Meghann walks us through the culture shock, the sensory overload, and the unexpected joys that came with their first few days in the country. We don’t just cover the obvious stuff, we talk about: • Navigating the infamous traffic (Zach famously declared: "I was made for this!" after only his second street-crossing), • Ordering local dishes with curiosity and courage as Meghann is a Celiac. • Experiencing the kindness and compassion of the Vietnamese people, unexpected! • And reflecting on the powerful legacy of Vietnam’s war history and its place in the modern-day cultural landscape. • Plus best take away souvenirs you’d never think of This is a candid, light hearted, and insightful conversation about the magic of those first encounters – the sights, the flavours, the energy – that make Vietnam such an unforgettable destination. Tune in and see Vietnam through the eyes of a first-timer. It might just inspire your next big adventure. 🎧 Listen now on your favourite podcast platform and don’t forget to check out the The Grah Life to follow Meghan and Zach’s journey’s and their adventure discovering Son Doong - https://www.thegrahlife.com/vietnam Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

5e9ff723-f389-4d55-a827-80295ca29276As 2025 draws to a close here are some reflections. What About Vietnam S1-E11 Last words for 2025 Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. This episode is going to be a little bit different. I wanted to take this opportunity to say hello to everyone and to kind of embrace this time of the year as we get closer to Christmas and turning over the calendar to 2026. If you are here, then I'm thinking that you are thinking about a trip to Vietnam and I definitely hope that through the podcast series and the website whataboutvietnam.com, I can offer you lots of information to help you plan your trip. Conversely, you can always reach out to me to create an itinerary for you. So, as I said, the episode is going to be very different. Today, instead of taking you somewhere new in Vietnam, I wanted to take you somewhere a little closer to home to reflect, to thank you and to share what's next. When I first started the What About Vietnam podcast back in May 2020, Really my only goal was to share the magic that I felt every time I traveled there. The smells, the sounds, the people, just those really genuine moments that made me fall in love with the country. Now, if you recall, at that time we were all home during the pandemic, so travel felt a long way away. The podcast became a way to travel through stories, to meet locals, guides, expats, returnees and to kind of shine a light on the Vietnam that lives beyond the brochures and the guidebooks, etc. Try and put some feet on the ground to it, I suppose. And certainly, you know, through the show, I can't help but share with you my experiences and my takes. But as we understand, everyone's experience is different. Now fast forward three years, a bit over three years actually, a hundred episodes later this podcast has become so much more than I ever imagined. It's been downloaded in over 70 countries and I've had the joy of talking with people from all walks of life. Historians, chefs, wellness leaders, adventurers and of course travellers just like you. To every guest who gave their time and voice, I want to send you a very sincere thank you. You brought this show to life. You, in fact, gave it the personality, the energy, the self-expression and the passion that you have. are for the country and for your time there. So extremely grateful. To my listeners, your messages, your questions, your stories about visiting Vietnam after hearing an episode They have meant the world to me. You've kept me inspired through every series, every late night edit, every challenge, every thought provoking thought I've had about, you know, what can I do differently? What can I do better? You know, what is important to you? What do you need to know? And how can I bring that to you in a way that is understandable and easy to comprehend? One of the things I love most about this show is that the stories are evergreen. Whether you're listening today or three years from now, the insights and emotions are still there, waiting to be discovered. If you've just joined us, There's a whole library of episodes to explore, from street food adventures in Hanoi, to the quiet beauty of Yen Bai, to the joy of wellness retreats, and even a few episodes about dental and cosmetic travel. It's all there, told through real experiences and open hearts. So even while this mic takes a rest, the stories live on. Okay, time to pause. After three wonderful years, it feels like the right time for me to take a step back and take a deep breath. I want to give myself space to reflect on everything what about Vietnam has become and to imagine what it could be in the future. I kind of need to put my tourist headset back on and have that freedom of curiosity to expand what I want to do with what about Vietnam in the future and how I want to bring the stories to you. So it may not look the same. Maybe it returns in a new form in 26, maybe with fresh voices or a new way of storytelling. I'm not sure yet. And I hope that's OK with you. But unless I do that, I just don't feel I'm going to give you the best of me. Sometimes, as we say, you have to stop for a while to truly move forward. While the podcast takes a little time out, I'm not going anywhere. I'm not dropping off the planet. My love for Vietnam and helping people experience it is still very much alive. So if you're planning a trip, I'm still here through my trip planning and itinerary building services at whataboutvietnam.com. You've only got to see the pages there to reach out to me to request a trip plan. So that's where I'm going to be focusing most of my energy, creating bespoke journeys for travelers who want something authentic, something crafted with care for them in particular as a private tour. And I'll continue to share travel updates, news on visas, and some personal stories through my social channels and website. However, I may not be as full throttle in social media as I am currently, as I want this pause to be in content creation as well. Otherwise, you know, one kind of cancels the other out. I wanted to leave you with five thoughts or maybe five lessons . (1) Stay curious . Vietnam will surprise you every time. And that couldn't be more pertinent than in recent months with typhoons, with, you know, weather conditions really changing things up for people. So, you know, keep an open mind about how your trip is going to take form. You know, holding steadfast to some things can, I guess, kill off other opportunities and can also not give you the fluid options that you might discover something else just as wonderful. And even engaging with people under some, you know, conditions which aren't ideal can bring you closer to understanding the Vietnamese and how resilient they are. in times of change and challenges that can come up during a trip. You know, open that door, try that dish, you know, go in through an alley that, you know, in our own country we would never go down and see what you can find. You'll be amazed. I'm still amazed every time I make that decision to poke my nose in places that, you know, I wouldn't do in my own country. (2) Number two is travel slow. Sometimes the magic kind of happens in the quiet moments. Give yourself a break. It's really important in the travel mix to build in some days of rest. Otherwise, it can kind of feel like a work plan, like you're going to have to tick off everything every day to make sure that you've You've seen it. So I really stress if you can make some time to just chill out, people watch, muse, read a book, soak up the sun, view a sunset, go for a walk on the beach, maybe even go to a pagoda, say a prayer, read something profound. take in and breathe where you are and just accept that this is an experience that you're never going to get again. So taking those few moments to just slow down is going to help you really appreciate where you are and the aspects of everything you're experiencing. (3) Connect deeply is probably my number three thing I'd like to leave you with for 25. It's about connecting with people and sometimes just saying Xin Chao, saying hello to somebody can open a door. I can remember years ago, I did a cooking class and I met the owner of this restaurant that was running it in An Bang in Hoi An. And just through that connection and meeting this lovely lady, You know, I made a new friend. She could speak really good English. She wanted to know. She was just as curious about me as I was curious about her. So, you know, we shared many journeys since then. And just that moment in time when I could have or could have not kind of stepped out of my normal reserved self, it opened a door. So if you can, connect with the people that, you know, are guiding with you or, you know, you're meeting at various locations, etc. You'll find the Vietnamese are very welcoming, very friendly, and as I said, probably just as curious about you as you are about them. (4) I think for number four, where you can support the local environment , your choices really do help communities thrive. There's lots of opportunities to do that. In fact, I do a podcast about human trafficking with Blue Dragon. and the services that they offer to help rescue people and rehabilitate people who have been trafficked. You know, you'll be surprised that when you walk around various communities, especially in the more rural areas, you know, you will see opportunities to be able to provide some assistance where you can, and it doesn't have to be much. But, you know, making choices about how you dispose of rubbish and, you know, that all sets a really good example as that's not something that, Vietnamese have really understood but are certainly coming to grips with now. (5) Lastly, I'd like you to really keep dreaming about travel like life. It's an ongoing story. I think as Vietnam is growing and certainly opening up to the world as a fabulous destination, it's a big country and it's got a lot to offer. And I don't ever want to see Vietnam limited to about five places, I think, you know, look left and right, do your research, get in touch with me, ask questions, you know, really do some homework on where do you want this dream holiday to take you. If you want a certain type of experience that, you know, evokes more quietness, more locations that are rural, ethnic, then you might need to kind of get off the tourist map. If you want beautiful resorts, if you want luxury, if you want fine dining, well, you know, then I'm possibly going to steer you to another part of Vietnam. So don't ever feel limited, keep dreaming and I think you're going to have a wonderful time in Vietnam. In closing, from my heart to yours, thank you. Thank you for listening, for sharing, for being part of this journey with me. Every download, every message, every moment you've spent here has meant a lot. So for now, this is me, Kerry Newsome, signing off from What About Vietnam. And until we meet again, online in Vietnam or somewhere along the way. Take care, keep exploring, stay curious and have a wonderful Christmas and New Year.

S5-E16 Smart phone apps and tech tip S5-E16 Smart phone apps and tech tip Episode 16 S5-E16 Smart phone apps and tech tip 00:00 / 48:24 No one travels these days without their phone. So, it makes sense to invest in some extra smartphone skills that can significantly enhance your travel experience if Vietnam. In this show we arm you with some of the best Tech Tips and Apps to enhance your experience of Vietnam, including : staying in touch with family and friends back home; Not getting caught out with home country phone fees; saving money on tour costs: feeling confident about exploring outer regions, and not necessarily having to do it alone. In this podcast episode, I am joined by Michelle Chang from Intentional Travellers, a business offering tutorials in Smart phone upskilling for travel to countries all around the world. Through Michelle’s worldwide travel experiences she is able to explain the benefits of having these skills and how they can help travellers answer unexpected questions, deal with challenges, and navigate unfamiliar places more effectively. Michelle highlights the significance of using essential apps such as Google Maps, Google Translate, WhatsApp, and ride-sharing apps like Grab, but that’s only the beginning. Additionally, we cover;- * Currency conversions Apps – to help understand local currencies and lots of zeros. *Phone battery management *Making the best use of Google Maps *Data management and phone calls made easier *The ride share advantages *Working remotely in Vietnam *Online booking tools and Apps to get the best offers *Using your phone to manage communication with tour operators Moreover, the conversation on remote work in Vietnam highlights the robust internet connectivity and the extensive use of technology for business. Michelle notes the widespread availability of free Wi-Fi in cafes and co-working spaces, emphasizing the increasing appeal of digital nomadism. By utilizing smartphone capabilities and modern technology, travelers can effortlessly integrate work with leisure, maintaining productivity while discovering new destinations. If you would like to know more about Michelle’s tutorials and online programs you can connect directly with her here - https://intentionaltravelers.com/ For a great experience with a buddy to help you enjoy local areas, business situations, translations and possibly medical appointments, why not book a Travel Buddy through https://www.tubudd.com/ Use the Promo code KERRYVN5 on the payment page in the booking TUBUDD App to receive 5% discount on hourly rate of services. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

ed10c13c-1fb0-41e6-adce-273e1b6a9b72How should you travel to and in Vietnam and is it safe? What About Vietnam - Series 1 - 3 How should you travel within Vietnam? Xing Chau and Welcome to What About Vietnam. My name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host. You are listening to the what about Vietnam series - everything you need to go before you go. My aim is to pass on as much information as I can to ensure you have a great trip. In the previous episode we covered off that age old question “When is it a good time to go?”. In that session I hoped I explained a little bit about how Vietnamese festivals and the weather impacts that decision. However today we are going to cover off the “How should you travel to Vietnam as in what style…. as part of a tour, through a travel agent, do it all yourself, online ???, and the best way to get around. There isn’t really any guide book or website page to help you with the decision of whether to travel to Vietnam, as a solo traveller, couple, in a group, or should you take your extended family. Or maybe you are thinking of a girls getaway? A flop and drop romantic breakaway ? Are you a thrill seeker, intrepid, Cave discovery, Eco, hiking kind or traveller? Should you take kids? Is it safe? Will the kids get bored?Will you be able to eat the food? It is such a personal decision. But what I can tell you is what I know to be true from personal experience and that of many travellers I have dealt with over the last few years working with travel agents and service providers in Vietnam. It depends on a couple of things. Your budget and the kind of experience you want to have. You can buy a 2 star to a 5 star stay in Vietnam. Online there are agencies in all languages. My only advice dealing with an agency, make sure its a reliable one and offers value for their service. To me the biggest advantage of an agent is most in their ability to look after you while on the trip, as in if things go to clay you have a person in charge of your tour who will chase things or fix things for you in the case they don’t work out. Online with Online Travel agents that is not alway so easy and can be problematic. Intrinsically how you book to go, depends on your preferred star rating of travel, budget and level of comfort desired. I have stayed in 2 star to 5 star and everything in between and I have my preferred way but that may not be yours. Im a safety conscious traveller and will not stay anywhere that is a lesser standard of my home, so it least needs to be at that level or above preferrably. Othewirse in my opinion, why leave home.?? Personally I can speak with authority about travelling to Vietnam as a solo traveller. Is it safe? In my experience yes. But like any traveller in any country you need to travel with your wits about you and use common sense when it comes to getting yourself around. I like to think having travelled to many countries I have a ‘sick sense” about impending danger and try where possible never to let myself be in a position to be vulnerable to that. So Where are those places ...like in any country, Mostly in the main cities of Hanoi and HCMC, there are a few areas, I would not choose to go alone. But again, thats just common sense and mostly because, if I found myself in trouble in those areas that don’t see many western tourists, I would stand out like the proverbial. And probably struggle to get help other than hailing a taxi or calling a Grab car. But if you go to outer regions in the country, the locals despite minimal English are always kind and welcoming...in my expereince. And i can only speak from my own experience. You should see what I can do with hand gestures...facial experessions, you can achieve a lot. As you may have already guessed I cannot speak Vietnamese and have zero skills in pronunciation. So you will just have to accept that. In remote areas I would suggest you go with a guide to get the history of the minority groups. Places like Mau Chau, where you will find The White Thai (Thai Trang) Different from Thai people in Thailand. You will also meet the Hmong people living in and around the Pa Co Nature Reserve. Living as they have for many hundreds of years. So for adventurers... solo, or as couples,...or families you can feel confident about planning your trip to move freely about Vietnam, with the utmost safety. The most enchanting areas in the north west of Vietnam, and even around the Mekong Delta, you will see a side of life that is existing…. in some ways as it has done for centuries. Hard as that may be to imagine.The friendship offered by the Vietnamese is well documented and continues today. You will be overwhelmed if my expereince is anything to go on. So getting back to tors, what you want from Vietnam depends largely on your budget and time available. Should you hire a motorbike and ride through Vietnam? Yes, if you are an experienced rider and you have time on your side. Will all the roads be paved. No. Will there be areas where the roads are windy and dangerous, Yes. But will you have the time of your life...ABSOLUTELY. I have known many travelers who have done this and in my new series I will be sharing with them some of these experiences. So stay tuned. For a family, you have all types of travel at your disposal. Kids have a plethora of experiences open to them, many made available through the VinPearl group, who has hotels and theme parks like you would get in the states! But in addition to that you have cultural experiences to open their minds. The chance to visit places to learn how to grow chocolate, make rattan mats, paint masks, make paper lanterns, climb mountains, and visit amazing caves. In addition they can enjoy affordable water sports at some of the most picturesque beaches in the world. I took my grandson last year, who is 16, and I thought without his devices he would be bored, but quite the contrary..he was fascinated with the adventure of seeing a new culture, experiencing the beaches at An Bang at Hoi An, visiting the Old town and seeing the Hoi An Memories show; climbing Marble mountain and even participating in a cooking class which his parents would never have believed had I not taken a video. So you can relax, finding things for your whole family to enjoy will not be a problem. We will talk more about specific locations in future episodes. Vietnam is generously available to all travel types. You can come to Vietnam and get around to most parts by Air, bike, Train, private driver, bus and or river. You cannot however hire a car yourself...as you can in most other countries in the world. Thus you wont see any car Hire places like Hertz or Europcar at the airports. But arranging a quality driver and car with aircon is very easy at any tourist desk in the main cities. And reasonably priced. These tourist desks exist as an easy place to organise your own day tours and adventures. You can do this from your hotel as well if you feel more comfortable, but you will pay more. One visit, my husband and I stayed in Hanoi for a month. Staying at a homestay hotel, at $30 AU a night, we used the city as our base to plan day and over night trips to Ninh Binh and Sapa. All very affordable and easy to arrange. The overnight train trip to Sapa was something id wanted to do, and Im glad I did it, just for the experience. Most places of interest are connected by bus and now Air. You can reach most places within Vietnam by air in about 1 hour - 1 hour 3o mins. Flights are available through: ASCO Air Vietnam JetStar Pacific Airlines Vietjet Air Vietnam Airlines Air Mekong Air is the way to go if you are strapped for time and the terrain you are traveling in between uninteresting. As I have said bus is a common and very cheap form of travel. But slow. And not always comfortable as many roads a windy and the buses old and rickety. Not my preferred way to travel when its easier to get a flight and it is NOT that expensive. I do have it on good authority that some train trips, especially the one from Danang to Hanoi through the Hai van Pass offers some great views so it may be something to consider given you have time as the trip is long 10-12 hours. In regard to bike trips, I will save some of the hair raising stories of fun, and exhilarating experiences for my guests in the next series. I certainly have loved getting around small towns like Hoi An on the back of a scooter within a group tour or with a friend. I do not have a bike licence so that it my only, ….legal option. To ride as a passenger. I wont get into those that still do hire bikes without a licence as its fun, until…...its not when an accident happens. 90% of Travel Insurance companies do not cover bike riding in Vietnam. Lastly, many ask me, if they should book everything before they leave, or wait and book over there. My advice comes back to a question. What are you most comfortable doing? If you do book EVERYTHING before you leave, you are committed and that may be a good thing or a bad thing. Personally, I like to book my flights and some accommodation over there, and then make it up as I go using the various Tour desks. The advantage of group tours, is the pricing and the chance to hang with a group of people and possibly make new friends. ls there is safety in crowds...I guess. I loathe BIG group tours, as I feel they show the stadium experience of Vietnam and not the grass roots version. You only get to eat at and visit places that can accommodate large numbers, and they aren’t always the prettiest versions or the most authentic. Not all, but some as I hate to generalise. Large groups are not well liked for how they treat the environment. So be careful and choose wisely. I deal with all types so please send me a question if you are unsure. In regard to the food. I have mixed it,.... with all kinds of tastes, allergies and nerves about the quality of food and I am glad to say, I have always found options for all paletes. The food is amazingly fresh, cheap if you are prepared to eat like Vietnamese and lushous if you are prepared to pay extra. Seafood is bountiful ….as is fresh fruits. I have one friend who is a seasoned traveller and prefers to eat seafood selected from the buckets where you can pick your own. I could spend a whole session just talking about the amazing food. But I will save it for some experiences I have to share in the next series. I hope I amwetting your appetitie for the next series. So in wrapping up this session, “How should you travel to Vietnam as in what style, as part of a tour, through a travel agent, or do it all yourself???, and what is the best way to get around?? Now you are gathering more info about Vietnam, ask yourself the question, How committed do you want to be before you leave, and what are you prepared to leave to Chance??? Knowing you have lots of options to DIY. In how to get around:- I rate Air, Car with a driver, train for experience, river boat for experience in the Mekong, ….Bike if you have an International bike licence, not just a car licence,( POlice cracking down on this more and more) and lastly bus. For solo, couples, families, kids and intrepid travellers, Vietnam has it all, dependant on budget, and time basically. Please check with the Episode notes for any links mentioned and feel free to contact me anytime. I look forward to paving the way for you to have a magical time in Vietnam as I share more trip planning tips over future episodes ... ….stay tuned for more to come in the super 6 series, Whatabout Vietnam - before you book. Thanks for listening…..Bye for now...

What about Vietnam blog about travel tips and holidays in Vietnam S1-E11 Episode 11 As 2025 draws to a close here are some reflections. Go to Episode S1-07 8 Tips for travel during Tet Episode 7 8 Tips for Vietnam travellers during TET Go to Episode S1-03 Travel within Vietnam Episode 3 How should you travel to and in Vietnam and is it safe? Go to Episode S1-E10 Getting your Visa right Episode 10 No Visa or Evisa – Getting it right in 2025 Go to Episode S1-06 Culture and Visas Episode 6 Vietnam from a cultural and historical standpoint. Go to Episode S1-02 Best Time to Travel in Vietnam Episode 2 Know the best time to as a travel manager and “its important”. Go to Episode S1-E09 Vietnam Travel First Impressions Episode 9 Travelling Vietnam for the first time? Go to Episode S1-05 Accommodation Episode 5 Five golden rules on getting the best accommodation Go to Episode S1-08 Join a packaged group tour or DIY Episode 8 The big Decision. A packaged tour or DIY Go to Episode S1-04 What can you buy Episode 4 What does your Dong buy you in Vietnam? Go to Episode

< Back Chef Duyen’s Cooking class and Market Tours A TRULY LOCAL EXPERIENCE with chef in own home COOKING CLASS & MARKET TOUR – English and Vietnamese Speaking This is the chance to learn how to cook famous Vietnamese dishes with a fully trained Chef in the comfort of her own home. In my experience this is a truly a unique way to get to know how Vietnamese live in today’s world, and how their food is a big part of their culture, family life and social upbringing. You should try all kinds of cooking classes in Vietnam, however what makes this a stand out, is that the chef welcomes you into her own home to get to a feel for what family life is really like. You will never get that from a restaurant lesson, so consider this a real treat. Chef Duyen adds her own warm and friendly personality to this experience which when you hear about her history you will be amazed at her journey as a young mother, trainee chef and business owner. I did this tour with her in 2018 and can speak highly of her character, warmth and knowledge of Vietnamese cooking. You will learn a lot, so be prepared for a fun day of learning. You can also hear her and I chat about the 5 main dishes in Hanoi on this YOU TUBE Video HERE. Food brings people together and is central to family life. In this experience you can choose the best tour that suits your time frame and food interest. If you have any particular food allergies or intolerances Chef Duyen can accommodate these if you can advise her when you book. This is a fun activity for the whole family including kids as they will enjoy the fun of making food like they have never tasted before. COOKING AND MARKET TOUR OPTION 1 $45 USD per person includes class & market tour, ingredients, recipes, drink & hotel pickup 🍀🍀🍀 Duration 3-4 hours from 9am to 1pm 🍀🍀🍀 Your chef and tour guide for this experience is Chef Duyen who will pick you up from your hotel then take you to visit the local market and show you around her own neighbourhood. You will get the chance to meet local people and enjoy local activities within a friendly neighbourhood setting. You will experience cooking & eating outside people’s houses and watch how produce is sold at local markets. Because the Chef has good English speaking skills the Chef will explain to you about the Vietnam vegetables / herbs and ingredients Vietnamese used for cooking. Then, the thing that makes this extra special, is Chef Duyen invites you to her home which is not so far from a famous Long Biên bridge & the local market . It is here you will get to experience a very homely ‘hands on’ cooking class facilitated by Chef Duyen. You will learnhow to make some of these local delicacies. You will find out more about Vietnamese cuisine and experience the flavours and tastes all the foods after chef duyen show you how to you did in the class and enjoy with beer for yourself in the comfortable home of local Hanoian, 🍀🍀🍀 Menu choices: Dishes from my Countryside: • Caramel Pork • Banana Flower Salad with Chicken • Fried Spring Rolls • Dipping Sauce • Sweet Coconut Soup with Taro (Che) Hanoi Favourites: • West Lake Prawn Cakes • Green Papaya Salad • Bun Cha • Dipping Sauce with Pickles • Pho Cuon • Sweet Coconut Soup with Corn, Jackfruit &Taro (Che) Vietnamese Vegan Dishes: • Tofu Pillows in Tomato Sauce • Banana Flower Salad • Vegeatrian beef noodle soup ( Pho bò chay ) • Vegetarian Fried Spring Rolls • Vegan Dipping Sauce WHOLESALE MARKET TOUR & STREET FOOD TOUR OPTION 2 $65USD per person includes hotel pickup, taxis, street food tasting, coffee & water Please note: 4am pick up /return to hotel approx. 8am, or as negotiated Of special interest to chefs, foodies, photographers as well as foreigners living in Hanoi – a night tour, for night owls or early risers only. Visit the chaotic wholesale market, where stallholders from wet markets, restaurants and other businesses stock up for the day. Fruit and vegetables come in from provinces all over Vietnam and from China, arriving in trucks from 1am. Meat, poultry and seafood comes in around 4am. It’s a tough place to work and the alleyways are narrow and full of people busy earning their livelihoods. Many workers are from poor rural areas and send money home to their families. It is a very different experience to a local wet market. Visitors need to be aware this is a place of business, it’s not for the faint hearted. From the wholesale market you also visit a local market and the spice market at Cho Dong Xuan, coffee and several street food venues, tasting the dishes and learning about their history, from market to plate COOKING CLASSES DEMONSTRATION WITH EVENING STREET FOOD TOUR AND WHOLE SALE MARKET EXPERIENCE FOR SMALL GROUP 4 TO 7 PAX - OPTION 3 $65USD per person from 5pm to 9 _ 9.30pm (approximately 4 hours ) 🍀🍀🍀 includes hotel pickup, cooking class demonstration, street food + 9 different tastings / wholesale market experience 🍀🍀🍀 Chef Duyen will pick you up from your hotel then you come to her own home for the cooking demonstration of Vietnamese food ( Green papaya salad with dried beef and bbq pork with lemongrass skewers ) and testing ( or tasting) Vietnamese Rice Wine soaked fruits by chef Duyen 😊 then she will take you through the backstreets to places known by locals,+ 9 different tastings and learning about lots of different food and how it is connected to Vietnam’s culture. For more information or to book click here LOCAL KNOWLEDGE The insights that come from your Host Chef Duyen and food With Chef Duyen you will get to explore the more popular streets with locals, which have that very buzz of activity that Hanoi is renowned for. You will get to visit the Long Bien market to see the atmosphere of daily life, and how the locals work hard at the night market. This is a big market supporting all the farmers in Vietnam from the south and the north of Vietnam, with exported fruits, flowers and locally grown product. It’s a hub of activity so make sure to bring your camera. phanduyenchef@gmail.com https://www.facebook.com/chefduyen https://chefduyen.com/home https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g293924-d12666110-Reviews-Chef_Duyen_Home_Cooking_Classes_Tours-Hanoi.html For Bookings and more information - Contact What About Vietnam here OR Contact Chef Duyen - whatssap ( +84 ) 0387 941 73

2945b4d5-5239-4aff-b395-b00b0311b983A happening comedy scene for laughs in Saigon Discover an emerging comedy scene in Saigon Episode 18 S3-18 Emerging comedy in Saigon 00:00 / 31:55 What About if I told you there is a “happening” Comedy Scene in Saigon? After the years just passed, I thought this has to go on the "MUST DO" things during your stay in this vibrant city. I am talking about a fun night out in a funky place right in the heart of Saigon. My guest, Niall Mackay is no stranger to the comedy scene in Saigon having lived in Vietnam since 2016. A well known Stand Up Comedian, and Podcaster of his own Vietnam podcast “Seven Million bikes”, and “Did that really happen?”, he is ideally placed to talk about the evolution of English speaking comedy in Saigon. Niall takes us through some great stories of how the comedy scene has matured with some surprising talent and venues. As an organiser, promoter, and comedian himself he shares with us the bevy of talent coming through. From local Vietnamese doing English speaking comedy, to the many Expats who also relish the chance to jump on stage and bring the house down. Niall hopes to be back on stage next week. Check out http://www.sevenmillionbikes.com/ to find tickets to shows and everything about his podcasts. Kerry Newsome Don’t forget - Night out entertainment - COMEDY show - Saigon - its bound to set the right tone for the rest of your trip or for the trip home. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S5-E25 Hoi An in Focus - ten things to love S5-E25 Hoi An in Focus - ten things to love Episode 25 S5-E25 Hoi An in Focus - ten things to love 00:00 / 54:06 Hoi An continues to enchant—and in 2025, it feels overflowing, more layered, and more revealing than ever. That’s why I’ve chosen to revisit one of my most loved conversations on the show—this time with a fresh perspective, and a few heartfelt reflections from my recent trip. You’ll hear from the delightful Sharon Sweeney, a long-time visitor to Hoi An who once co-created the popular website and map guide HoiAnNow (now retired). Sharon still returns regularly, drawn—as so many of us are—by the town’s old-world charm and enduring spirit. As Hoi An grows in popularity, it’s evolving in ways that bring both beauty and complexity. With more international travellers comes more diversity, yes—but also more crowds, rising prices, and the ongoing challenge of preserving tradition in a fast-changing world. In this updated intro, I reflect on my ow personal observations, what’s new, what’s shifting, and what still stops me in my tracks and gives me great joy. This episode isn’t only about ticking 10 boxes ( as per the original show back in 2021 - S2-07) - it’s about finding your rhythm in Hoi An, one authentic experience at a time. Stay curious, stay open—and let’s rediscover the heart of Hoi An together. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S4-14 Con Dao Islands What About Vietnam - S4 - E14 Con Dao Islands – An archipelago of pristine beauty and complexity SPEAKERS: Conor Kelly, Kerry Newsome Kerry Newsome: 00:18 Xin Chào and welcome to “What About Vietnam ”. Today we're going to talk about a beachside location called the Côn Đảo Islands. Now, when you start Googling and researching for a beachside stay, there's a lot of options in Vietnam. You've got a coastline 3200 kilometers long to choose from. Now, but these islands are quite remote, they are a cluster of 16 islands, to be factual. They are less than hour flight out of Ho Chi Minh City. But the island or the Côn Sơn Island, which is the main one in the group, is very isolated and very raw, in the sense that there's not a lot of touristy stuff to do. 01:28 So, if you do want a very chilled out state, this is definitely the location. If you're looking for a very luxurious stay, there are some absolutely beautiful resorts there. But even if you're just looking to do some snorkeling, do some nice swimming, lay on the beach, read a good book. And you really want to get away from the hubba, hubba, hubba of the world, this would definitely be my pick for you. Conor Kelly is my guest on the show today to talk about Côn Đảo. He went on a trip with some friends very recently, and he really enjoyed it. And I think what you're going to get from this is some insights into just what he expected or didn't expect or was a little bit surprised. There is a prison there with a museum. Regretfully there's quite a brutal past to that prison. So, when you do want to go and check out some history on the island. That will definitely come up. But as I said, quite a brutal past and something to definitely take it in with context. 02:46 I think also with Conor, because he's a podcaster himself. He's a great storyteller. He's also a teacher, and he's also a journalist. He lives in Ho Chi Minh City. So, it was very easy for him to pop over to the Côn Đảo islands to take advantage of this short break. But I think for everybody listening, I really want you to just get some insights into what to expect there. When you start planning, how much time you may want to spend there, if you do want to go at all. Let's welcome Conor to the program. 03:30 Hello, Conor Kelly, welcome to the "What About Vietnam " podcast. Conor Kelly: 03:35 Hey, how are you? Kerry Newsome: 03:36 We were just having a quick chat before this around the fact that we're both podcasters, and we both know what's coming next. But I'm hoping you'll allow me to go all over the place with our subject as we're going to talk about a holiday or a short break you took on the Côn Đảo islands. Conor Kelly: 04:02 Yeah, absolutely. I'm willing to go into as much detail as I can, from my personal experience and looking forward to sharing it. Because still to this day, it's probably my favorite spot in Vietnam, and maybe ever, just due to its complexity and beauty. So, looking forward to diving into it. Kerry Newsome: 04:20 That's a big statement saying, best place ever, because there's so many other beach resorts and beach destinations in Vietnam, for it to stand out amongst all of those. That's a big call. So firstly, tell us how did you came to the decision to go there in the first place? Conor Kelly: 04:43 Well, it was one of those ones where you discuss with your friends where to go as, say a vacation or a short break, and I'd been to places like Da Nang, Nha Trang, Mũi Né, Phú Quốc, and the reason why Côn Đảo stands out is because, for example, all of those features, I personally think if I was to go to them and not know where I was, for example, like somebody brought me that blindfolded, I would probably get them mixed up whilst Côn Đảo was something completely different. I think the main reason I use that is because of the amount of litter that's in the other places, the lack of I say, lack of, as if it's a bad thing. But it's good that there's no litter in Côn Đảo, the crystal-clear waters, etc. And so, I think when I was actually arranging to go, I probably can't take too much credit because I went with some female friends, and they were much, much better at organizing than I was. So, they did their research explained to me the “hidden gem” aspect and said, it's better than let's say, a standard holiday to Nha Trang or Phú Quố, why not give it a try, to which I jumped at the opportunity. So that's really how it came about. Kerry Newsome: 05:53 Okay, so you're right, when you say hidden gem, because it's really only come on the radar for tourists, I think really, just pre-COVID. It was starting to get some attention. It certainly comes up in beach conversations, but never as a standout. And for me personally, I always saw it as I have to have a lot of money to go there. Like that Six Senses Resort was really the standout thing about the place. And apart from that, the views from those windows and the sandy beaches and the beautiful, lush hillsides, etc. I had no other perspective. And I don't even know why I didn't look into it more thoroughly. So, I'm curious, what was your first impression, because you've been to Nha Trang, you've been to Da Nang, and you've been to the other places. So, when you went and arrived, what was your first impression? Conor Kelly: 07:01 I think it was probably ‘shock’, because the airport was probably smaller than my office, which really struck me, I thought, "Wow, this is really quite bizarre." Upon that, I rang the hotel that we'd booked to order a taxi. And it was just, "No English, no English. Get another taxi." So, I said, "Okay, cool." So, then I went to the taxi and said, "Taxi here." "No English ." I said, "Okay." So, I got on my phone and did the whole: 'Come to this location.' And then it hit me. Nobody speaks English on this island, which already gives it a different feel, to say, your Phu Quoc’s because generally you will find English speaking locals there, there are normally lots of expat communities there already; as it's touristy,You think this will be something they accommodate too. But this didn't seem to have anything. It seemed very authentic Vietnamese. So, I thought, Okay, this is my first view, and then driving through the mountains, or well, not necessarily the mountains, the windy roads leading up to the town center of Côn Đảo. 08:01 So, this is something slightly different, middle of nowhere, didn't see any bikes really, only two or three. Then upon arriving just how quiet it was, it almost gave me a bit of a shock as in thinking, "Why does nobody know about this? Is this mysterious?" And then from exploring and my research, I was aware of the historical influence of Côn Đảo perhaps in previous times in Vietnam, so maybe it still has that connotation? Like a war Island? Who knows? But my first impression was, I don't know, it was like a mix of mystery. But also, curiosity. And also, I guess, because some of the things I was seeing in terms of just the sunset, the beaches, the mountains, the desertness of the whole place, they seem to have it in quite a positive way. So that's what my first impression was. Kerry Newsome: 08:56 It's a good thing to bring up because I think, certainly, coming out of Ho Chi Minh City, to the quietness of that island would be a shock in itself. Like it's only a 45-minute flight, isn't it? Like it's short and sweet. I already knew about the airport not being of any grand scale. I also knew that there was very little English spoken there. So, you're right, the island hasn't really been geared up for high level tourism. There are no buses arriving and that real over tourism feel to it at all, which is what I understood. But I'll tell you how it was put to me by someone else. They said, "Look, it's absolutely beautiful. It's absolutely pristine, but past a couple of days, you've got to be really imaginative and innovative in what you're going to do. Otherwise, there's nothing. It's quiet, it's serene. But if you get bored with that, after a while, you've really got to start to look further afield." And I mean, you've already mentioned the war side of it, and the prisons, and we can go into that in a bit more detail. 10:20 So, I can understand and totally relate to what you said about the 'No English', it's quiet, like, "Does anybody really know I'm here? How am I going to function as a tourist?" Because there's some things that I think as a tourist, we still want to have this kind of creature comforts, to know that there's an ATM if I need cash, or, like really basics. And when you get to some of these places, they're the first things you think about, "Well, how am I going to get around? How am I going to do things in this place?" So, from what I understand, accommodation wise, there's either on the beach itself, or it's closer to the town, Côn Sơn, is that right? Conor Kelly: 11:11 Yeah, I believe. So, we ended up going past all of the Six Senses and resorts that were 5-stars and ended up luckily finding a place we booked in advance that was of, I guess, normal pricing, I think it was still quite expensive than what you would get in another place. But it wasn't extortion, it was reasonable. Kerry Newsome: 11:33 So, would that be like a 4-star place or 3-star? Conor Kelly: 11:37 If I remember correctly, it was a three star it was almost standard, like hotel room with a balcony, which was fairly nice, TV, etc. But it was a far cry, I guess, from the results that come up straightaway, like your Six Senses, etc., which are slightly further away from the main town center. I think it's still gotten places like hostels, it's just, you have to realize they don't speak English. So, it will be a bit of a tricky one. I still remember just little things like asking for a motorbike, it took 10 minutes, even with Google Translate, when in other places, it's just, "Motorbike yeah? 120 for the day" There you go. So little bits like that. But we ended up in like a 3-star one, I believe, in the town center. So, that suited well. Kerry Newsome: 12:21 Alright, so you were there five days. So, I'm curious, what were some of the things you decided to do to take in the island? Conor Kelly: 12:29 Well, we had an itinerary, which was good, because I concur with that point that after the first couple of days, once you get completely, I guess, once the novelty wears off, that you're on this beautiful, mysterious island, you could get bored. And we had a bit of a weird situation, to be honest. It's a strange one, our flights got rearranged on the way back without them telling us. So somehow, this situation, like transpired where the flight had already been, but we had to get back, and they hadn't told us. So, it was all a bit up in the air. And with that, I ended up getting stuck on the island for a bit longer, which was great. So, that's when it hit me that. Wow, yeah. Because I'm now stuck on this island, I was stuck. I mean, I could go home two days later. That means that, "Oh, what do I actually do?" And as I was thinking about what I will actually do, I thought, "I'm probably just going to sit on the beach, read a book, have some coffee", very basic things, which was great. Don't get me wrong, but I was thinking, "If I was here for an extended period, that's all I could really do." 13:33 We had our itinerary, like going back to what I mentioned, which was to go snorkeling, then was to go hiking, then was to visit the museum and the prisons. And that was really about it. I'm sure there are other things we could have done but fitting it into like our period where we could also have beach time, there we go. So yeah, I would certainly agree with that. We definitely got to see little bits. And we spoke to locals who had to develop their English, I was lucky enough to interview our tour guide for my podcast, which was amazing. But after a while, you can get slightly bored. I probably wouldn't want to go solo. Because I think the beauty of the trip is experienced in this incredible place with people whilst if you're just by yourself, you can feel very isolated because as you mentioned, a great phrase, "Nobody knows you are here". So, it can be isolating and probably lacking in stimulation. Because there are many activities quote, unquote. There are a few bars that we managed to find, but not very expertly populated, but you wouldn't be able to interact. I think I counted five foreigners the whole time I was there, as I'm seeing it now sounds like a lot, because it didn't feel like there was even five. I was looking around, thinking there's no one. So, it's a bit of a strange one. Kerry Newsome: 14:53 Yeah, and I've only been to a few places in Vietnam where I've looked around and I've gone- because I've got blonde hair, and I would look around and I'd go, "I think I'm the only white person here." I get the feeling that Côn Đảo is a little bit similar. And people say, when you see the photos and all the rest of you go, "Well, why aren't more people going?" I think we've actually hit the nail on the head. And that is: It's not super good for trendy bars on the beach. It doesn't have an entertainment aspect to it. Kids wise, they've got to really be into snorkeling and maybe watching the turtles and, and doing that, maybe some hiking and things like that. But there's no artificial aspects to it to add on another layer. I think, in a good way, it's still pretty raw. And I think if you're into that rawness and that untouched aspect, that is what you would enjoy. But as far as a lengthy stay, it would depend on if you really wanted a wellness aspect to your stay where you really do want really quiet and whatever, you'll definitely get it there. I was going to ask you about roosters, whether they still woke you up. But I don't think you're going to get karaoke bars and things like that. Conor Kelly: 16:30 Yeah, exactly, none of that stuff. It was very much like the rawness was its appeal, not for anything like touristy. Kerry Newsome: 16:38 Yes, exactly. So as far as those things to do were concerned, can I break down a couple that I'd just like to know a little bit more about? So, there is a national park. And I believe the National Park is quite beautiful and teeming with wildlife. And that is Côn Sơn. Did you decide to go and venture through that and do some hiking? Or was there any interest in that while you were there? Conor Kelly: 17:05 I think we were trying to. We were trying to find, say, an official hike to do to go with the wildlife. But for some reason, we weren't able to. Perhaps the tour guides weren't available. I can't exactly remember. But we found someone to take us trekking. It has its similarities to a point. Then once we ended up going through the trek and getting to the top of the mountain, quote unquote, even though it wasn't an official mountain. We then went snorkeling, which was something we'd done the day before. So, it wasn't like- snorkeling was great. So, it's not like, "Oh, here we go. We have to snorkel again." But it was like, "Okay! Snorkel again." Just because it's there. In terms of hiking and experience in the wildlife, that's not something that we did, I guess, the official way, but we did some trekking. Kerry Newsome: 17:49 Right. So, on the snorkeling side of it, did you decide to go out? Because I think there's about 16 islands that constitute Côn Đảo islands from a plural sense. Are there any people that can take you out to some of the other islands? Can you do some snorkeling in other places? Because I do believe the coral and the sea life is quite amazing. Conor Kelly: 18:17 Yeah, we were brought out to a few of the surrounding islands, which I wasn't too familiar with. And there's a, there's a small boat that does that for you, where you have the Vietnamese who will bring you and there'll be, say, within five to six people and then your crowd, and they take you from island to island. You do your snorkeling. And then it's rounded off by relaxing on a beach not too far away. The actual experience of that would have been amazing, except for the fact that the waves were extremely rough on that particular day, and a lot of people were getting sick. So, it was slightly mixed, where you'd be getting bumped around. Waves were crazy. People were getting sick. But except for that, if I was to dive like, for example, when the water was calmer, it was amazing. It was just on that note, it was a bit wild. But that's what happens. You can be brought around by the Vietnamese when you go there Kerry Newsome: 19:15 I guess also for historians, and for people who want to delve back into the history of Vietnam. Certainly, the island holds a lot of some brutal history to do with the prison and definitely the way political prisoners were treated in such a brutal way in the prison. So, it's become quite famous. I understand that. Did you decide to go and have a look at the prison or the cemetery or the museum? Conor Kelly: 19:50 Yeah, all of the above. We thought we'd have a look just to get some historical impact. That's one reason just to see what it's about. Well, the second reason is going back to what we mentioned earlier, we've done the trekking and the snorkeling. What else is that by the beach? So, let's try this. So, it was a combination of factors. But upon going there, it's a strange one, because I've been to the war museums in Ho Chi Minh and Hanoi, and I'm sure somewhere else, however, it's probably Côn Đảo. That's probably what's on my mind. So, I don't think it differed enormously from those two, to be honest with you. Maybe if I had to make a distinction, you actually went into the rooms, the chambers that were used, and there are statues and exactly what happens. So, if you go up close and personal, it can be a bit slightly brutal, slightly harrowing, especially if you try empathizing with what was happening, hundreds of years ago. 20:46 So, it's a strange one. That's definitely the distinction. In terms of the museum, it was fairly similar to the ones you get Ho Chi Minh and Hanoi. There was some slight- I guess, more historical context about the actual island and what that was used for, which was interesting. Because I wasn't previously familiar with it. It does explain the mystery of the place where if I speak to Vietnamese. Some of my Vietnamese friends about Côn Đảo, that's the first thing they say. It's not how beautiful the beaches are. It's not about the scenery. It's always "Oh, yeah, at the war place." So, I do think it has that spooky feel about it still, which can deter locals. But expats may not be so put off by that because of the difference of generation. So that's really what it was. They're all fairly near each other, to be honest with you, and not too expensive to go, I think within 50k to 100k. So, fairly near the beach. So, it's easy to explore and check out. That was my interpretation. Kerry Newsome: 21:50 Yeah, it was a dark place to go for me when I went into to do some serious reading on those prisons, and just, how the French built the prisons and what they were used for, right up too, and including the American war. So, that was a dark area of discovery about the island. But certainly, as you say, I think it does have that stigma. And I think it's possibly one of the reasons that Vietnam hasn't decided to consider it or promote it to its own people. 22:40 Getting on to the other things to do. Can you talk to us about food? Like, were there any cute restaurants? Or did you move amongst hotels to get some different aspects of food? Because I'm thinking in my head also that could have been an interesting delving experience. Conor Kelly: 23:08 This is where I feel slightly embarrassed, because usually when I will go to a new place in Vietnam, I'll do some research beforehand on certain types of food that you must get from there, for example. Upon coming to Côn Đảo, I was really just curious about what it was. It was at a point of my Vietnam journey where I hadn't been here. I think I can't remember; I think what I said, I hadn't been here that long. I've been here about a year. So that's long enough. But upon going, I remember thinking, "Oh, what is different about Côn Đảo Vietnamese food?" I was almost just looking at the menu and choosing what I would choose everywhere else. I had this tradition when I was younger, I say younger in my Vietnam journey, where I would look for great western spots abroad, not abroad, but in just different tourist destinations just to I guess, familiarize myself with. If I'm on holiday, I can treat myself a bit more. 24:05 So, there were some amazing western places in Côn Đảo, which surprised me. It really surprised me actually, because I thought that the whole vibe would be very Vietnamese orientated. But I think that was recommended by a friend of a friend. So that's how it all came about. But in terms of the Vietnamese food cuisine there, I'd probably say the seafood. The seafood was up there. The first meal we had, unsurprising, I suppose. But that was definitely something. I mean, it was quite expensive for what you got, but overall, the food was decent. Kerry Newsome: 24:41 It is, being an island, you would think the seafood would have to be good. Actually, it's not going to be good there, like where is it going to be good? So, that's good to hear. 24:58 So, Conor, would you say five days was long enough or too long, or something in between? Conor Kelly: 25:06 Probably just about enough, if not too long, I would advocate three or four days to be honest with you. I think that's enough time to be amazed by the beauty. Also see everything and not get too bored. Kerry Newsome: 25:21 Yeah, and that's been my feeling as well, as far as when people have asked me about a side trip from Ho Chi Minh City. As we've talked, there's Nha Trang, there's Mũi Né, there's Phú Quốc, and of course, there is Côn Đảo. But as far as 'how long', I really am glad you've said that, because I'm like you. I can get just totally overwhelmed with the white beaches, the sunsets, the long cold drinks, but by day three, I'm starting to get a bit of itchy feet, and I'm going, "Okay, so, what's next?" So yeah, I'm glad you've narrowed that up for me. 26:12 I'm also told by my travel company that the best time to go is March to September. Would that be right for you? You mentioned the waves and I have heard out of season; those waves can get quite big, and it can be quite turbulent. So, do you still think March to September is the best time, or later, or earlier? Conor Kelly: 26:36 Yeah, definitely. Because if it rains, I feel like Côn Đảo suddenly loses an enormous amount of its appeal, in terms of the activities you can do. And the scenery, it would lose a huge part of that. So definitely, if you are thinking I would advocate going at that time. I know a friend who went on Tết holiday, I think. I think it was Tết holiday. But for some reason, the weather was-bad. Kerry Newsome: 27:00 February, March. Conor Kelly: 27:02 And it was just nothing. So yeah, go around that time, I'd recommend. Kerry Newsome: 27:11 Is there any kind of must do's or must don't dos? Is there anything to be warned, people should be aware of? You mentioned some of the aspects of not speaking in English. I think that was good to mention, that there isn't going to be that hospitality trend in Vietnam, where most people in hospitality have got some level- good of English to get around. But do you have any like, 'beware of’. I've heard maybe you need to bring repellent for sandflies. Apparently, the sandflies are pretty raucous on the beaches. Conor Kelly: 27:53 Anything you should be aware of. A good book. Yeah, definitely bring good books. Yeah, I'd say, definitely do that. Definitely bring some good books. Kerry Newsome: 28:03 Or bring a good podcast. There is one. Conor Kelly: 28:05 Yeah, exactly. Kerry Newsome: 28:06 You download a good podcast? Conor Kelly: 28:08 Yeah. I have some recommendations, I'm sure. Yeah, make sure you're in good company, which I'm sure you will already have planned. Kerry Newsome: 28:20 You mentioned just about the flight issue coming back. Did you book that directly with the airline? Or did you go through with your friends and through a travel agent? How did you actually go around booking it? I meant to ask. Conor Kelly: 28:34 A good question. I think it was through Vivu Travel. I think so. I can't remember if it was their fault or the airline's fault that we weren't informed. But yeah, that's another thing I should have mentioned actually. The flights can be tricky. There's only three or four a day, both to and from, at very awkward times. I think the latest is 2pm. So, it's not one of those where you can go for a weekend where you'll go on Friday night and come back Sunday night, which I've done with Da Nang, which can't really happen. So, it's a tricky one, I'd say with flights. That makes it slightly more awkward. So, beware of that Kerry Newsome: 29:17 In comparison to Nha Trang, Phú Quốc, Mũi Né, you would still rate it as number one beach escape? Conor Kelly: 29:28 Number one beach escape? Yeah. And the reason is just because of how beautiful it was, as in the untouched waters, the beautiful sand, the weather, etc. In terms of I guess if you want to escape to go partying, for example, for a week or so, or have like a real western spot, then go to Phú Quốc, but I think Con Dao as a beach escape is number one. Kerry Newsome: 29:50 Brilliant.Transcript Outline Time stamps to follow 4.43 The “hidden gem” aspect of the islands 7.01 First impressions 11.11 The accommodation scale 12.29 Nobody knows you are here – the feeling of isolation 16.30 Discovering the islands “things to do” 19.15 “The war place” 23.09 The food experience 24.57 Time out – how long is long enough? 27.11 Must do’s and don’t – Watch for flights in and out

S4-25 A fun Guide to droning - Photos Part 3 S4-25 -Drone photography in Vietnam A fun Guide for travellers Part 3 Photography 00:00 Kerry Newsome Xin chào and welcome to What About Vietnam. Now, if you're thinking about Vietnam, you're obviously going to start searching social pages, Googling Instagrams, Reels, you name it. And amongst that search, you're going to find a lot of great photography and in particular, a lot of great drone photography. So when I was putting together the 3 part series, I had to include it as 3 parts because whilst we got a lot out of Thomas, like we really learnt some great tips on how to manage our phones or our cameras to get some great pics in Vietnam. But we couldn't just talk about photography and let it stand alone as drone photography and drone video is becoming, you know, something that everybody can do, even people like me. I was fascinated with it back in 2018 and started to bring a drone camera into Vietnam to take some shots. Unfortunately, on the occasion, the weather was pretty awful. So, I didn't have such a great time of it. But at that time, there was a lot of nervousness around bringing a drone camera into Vietnam and doing drone video for a lot of security reasons. There were some people trying to bring it into the country and just for recreation. And, you know, they were getting stopped at security and asked questions. And, you know, there was lots of talk about being confiscated and things like that. So, it was a bit of a crazy time. But in today's chat with my really well informed and local guest, Anton. And you'll hear me try to pronounce his surname in the show, which I think I get right. We're going to talk to him about how he's kind of started droning in Vietnam, but started back in Malaysia. But let me do Anton justice by giving you a little bit of background to him. He's from Ukraine. And while travel is not easy from there, for the past five years, he's been traveling throughout Asia, starting in Malaysia, where he taught English in KL for three years. He really enjoyed that time. And he decided to venture a little deeper into Southeast Asia and found himself in Vietnam. Oh, surprise. Malaysia spiked his interest in blogging as a hobby. And from there, his interest has grown. And he says, you know, when you travel alone, because timing just doesn't always work to join with friends, you still want to share your experiences with others. And I agree totally. So while his hobby started with Instagram, it's taken on a life of its own and morphed into a YouTube channel where filming from his Lumix G85 and his GoPro 8 was doing a satisfactory job. He said, you know, he just had the urge to take it up a notch. So here comes the drone as the best tool to capture those ordinary moments and panoramic views and turn them into extraordinary masterpieces. With the rise of apps and cutting edge technology that allows fantastic editing, capturing epic images and videos from unique perspectives in Vietnam, look now has never been easier. Anton continues to teach English from his base in Vietnam and says he feels like Vietnam has it all, beaches, mountains, hills to hike and old towns and basically anything you want whenever his schedule permits. He is out exploring more of the country and droning where he can. I've put all the links in the show notes so you can follow him on his YouTube channel and you know, I first spotted Anton on YouTube doing one talking about Danang and I think you're going to get a lot out of that. So definitely worth checking out. From my perspective, Anton was able to simplify some of the basic protocols for using your drone for non-commercial purposes. And that's what we're going to stick to in this show. So. if you're the guy that's going to do the next Tourist in Vietnam love story, you will have to get some special permissions. This is definitely for your leisure and recreational traveler who has an interest in photography and in particular drone photography. It is the third part of the photographic series that I've just put together this month. So I hope you're really going to enjoy it. From my perspective, I've had some great fun using my DJI Mavic Pro 3. It's a bit of a monster one. It's about one kilo. But, you know, just the shots that you can get on the right day at the right time are worth it, definitely worth it. But he's Anton. Let's welcome him to the show and learn a little bit more about droning in Vietnam in twenty twenty three. Today, I'm very excited to welcome Anton Glushkoff to the program. He's having a little smile at me at the moment because I've I think I've got his surname pronounced correctly, but just really happy to have 06:01 Alright Anton you on the program and welcome to What About Vietnam. Hi, Carrie. Thanks for having me here. It's exciting. 06:07 Kerry Newsome You said that's a really good start. Now we're going to be talking about something that I have a great interest in. And that's drone photography. We see a lot of it on your Instagram’s and your Reels and your YouTube videos. And I've seen the recent one that you did on Da Nang, which was fantastic. So I'm really going to ping you with lots of questions about how you came to get involved with drone photography in your interest. So let's start kind of right at the beginning, if I may, and say, OK, Anton, what made you decide to get into drone photography and in particular in 06:51 Alright Anton Vietnam? Good question. Well, I started my YouTube like two years ago and I started with my GoPro. That felt like amazing. It's got 4K stabilization. It was great. But when you start filming, it's never enough. So then I bought a new camera and then it was great. It was awesome. But then again, it felt like not enough. And I started thinking about drone because, you know, it gives you this perspective and it's an amazing tool. I just I can't get enough of it. There's so many things you can do that it can fly. It can film. It's got a stabilization. So any kind of altitude. So, yeah, well, one time I just think like, well, well, that's going to be my next step. I just got to get a drone and I was trying to choose one that would be perfect for me. I chose something not too expensive. I've got DJI Mini 2. So that's, I think, very good choice for a traveler, for a solo traveler. And, yeah, yeah, it did. It works perfectly well. And it's really fun. It is. 07:56 Kerry Newsome And, you know, some of the drone photography that we all see sort of gives a perspective of some places that you can't see from the ground. You just cannot get that perspective and that 360 degrees, which is what I think is fabulous, but getting back to some kind of basics for people who are thinking about bringing their drone to Vietnam, can you speak to us a little bit about just some tips maybe on carrying the camera, how best to do that? You know, we've got lithium batteries getting through security, you know, like some of the pointers there for people and especially just your recreational drone 08:46 Alright Anton flyers that are just in it for fun. Yeah, I've been thinking about this question. I have just posted this video about Danang, right? And it's about just flying a drone. To be honest, it was not the main idea behind it. I just wanted to create a theme for the video and I chose the drone because there were some issues with drone, but, yeah, now after this video, you know, my YouTube is very small, like there's like 400 followers and usually people don't should bombard me with questions, but this time at least six or seven people asked me like, oh, drone, how did you bring it in? How did you fly? Were there any problems? And I was generally surprised, like, what problems? What kind of problems are you talking about? Because I personally have never had any issues with it, never. And like I've lived in Vietnam for two years now. I've owned this drone for a year. And well, there were some issues, but there were more about filming in certain areas, there were some restrictions and sometimes there would be some people who would approach me and say, like, no, you cannot fly here. That that happened a few times. But like I flew in and out two times. I flew once to Malaysia with my drone and flew once to Thailand. So I also I did domestic flights with the drone. And no one ever asked me anything. And I'm a bit of, I don't like check- in luggage. So I always carry everything with me. So they would actually be able to scan my bag and see that there's a phone with those three lithium batteries and they never said anything. There is one thing, though, I guess it works. I'm very tall and I think Vietnamese people, I might be a bit intimidating. I'm like two meters tall and I'm quite big. So it's like, you know, I know I've heard stories not related to the drone, but I know, like, in certain situations, like my friends would be bothered by some guys while with me they would be like,ok!! 10:43 Kerry Newsome Yeah. I think that's fantastic. Yeah. I mean, I know when I mean, I always bring a lot of luggage and I kind of stay my maximum of 30 days, so I've usually have got a fair bit as carry on, as well as check in. But in that carry- on proponent, I would kind of disassemble the drone, take the batteries out, put them in a separate bag and have heaps of chords and that. So I did get the odd look occasionally. And some of the security people would kind of go through things a little bit more thoroughly and asking me what they were, what the batteries were, what they were for, et cetera. And I felt this was kind of like four or five years ago when it was kind of still new in Vietnam. And I'd just say it was for a camera. And that was kind of the easiest way to explain it. Drone was, you know, how do you say drone in Vietnam? Don't know. So I just went for camera and I kind of do that and then I'd get it. And I didn't have any problems. But there was quite a bit of nervousness there for a while about the responsibility as a tourist, you know, that people were taking the precautions about flying and being safe with it. And obviously, you've already brought that up in that video that you did on Danang and for everyone listening, I'll put the link to Anton's video so you can check it out yourself. But it was it was good to bring up things like no- fly zones and things like that. And I've seen some drone photography where I've gone. There's no way they could have done that unless they were standing about there or they were over there or whatever. So I'm not sure. I mean, have you seen much kind of police watching of people with drones or seen other people flying drones irresponsibly, I guess? 12:48 Alright Anton I haven't like personally seen people doing it, but I've seen videos where I know like, this is probably not legal. I have seen that and that is dangerous for multiple reasons. Responsible, you can get other people in trouble and you can get into trouble. Well, I think generally it's not a good idea when you are traveling. You don't want to get into problems. And normally with the drones like DJI application, DJI fly application is really smart and always use the restriction zones. It marks them on the map. Yeah. So it won't let you lift off and they will notify you. But I know like that people have these programs. There are some additional programs. They there's lots of things that can be done to drones and that's not safe. And yeah, in this case, that's a very easy way to get into problems because some of those restrictions zones can be related to government buildings or military buildings. And very problematic. Can become very serious. 13:56 Kerry Newsome And you don't have to do that. I mean, I think being responsible, which leads to my question to you about, can you suggest or would you recommend people do some homework before arriving into Vietnam just so that they get a bit of a lay of the land kind of thing? 14:08 Alright Anton I would sometimes use again the same application because you don't really need to actually fly the drone to access as you can open and you can look at the map. And yeah, I would say I just open the map and look at the area where I'm going to see whether any restriction zones, because like a couple of weeks ago I went to Thailand, to Koh Samui and Koh Tao, and then I decided to check, oh, so what's around these islands? Then I realized, oh, wow, actually, there is a big airport in Koh Samui. And obviously there's a restriction zone. So I thought, oh, OK, well, then it kind of changed my plan about my film because I realized that, well, I won't be able to fly my drone because the airport is just there in the middle and obviously it's not safe and you cannot lift off. So, yeah, that's certainly yes. Googling, I don't know, because I well, when all these questions came about droning, I started checking on the internet. So what does the internet say? And I was like, yeah, you cannot fly to Danang with a drone. You cannot do this. You cannot do that. I'm like, what does this come from? Like, I mean, again, I don't know for sure. Like I talk from my personal experience. So maybe some people have had a bad experience. I wouldn't be surprised. But in my case, like, no, no one really bothered me. Again, maybe because of the size, because I'm flying DJI Mini. It's 249 grams. I've got the pro. If it is, yeah, if it is pro, if it was like one kilogram, 15:33 Kerry Newsome it's different kind of equipment that one. It looks like you're a professional. So you may have some profession in media or, you know, you're going to do something of a professional or business nature versus yours, which is, you know, more recreational, you know, more for traveling. So I think, you know, everyone, if you if you've got a drone or you're thinking about buying a drone and you'd like to bring that to Vietnam and you're not really kind of dead serious about making, you know, drone photography, your business or that kind of thing, I think it's much easier if you buy the smaller model, as Anton suggesting, and I'll put the name of the one that you use, Anton, in the show notes so everyone's got that. Yeah, because I did the same as you. I did a lot of checking of Googling and whatever. And then I found on some website there was some forms that you had to fill in to declare whether or not you were filming for business, you know, professional purposes or whether you were using the drone for recreational. And I was a bit conflicted then because I thought, oh, well, I do a podcast and I put it up on YouTube. Is that for professional or is that recreational? I don't know. What do you think? 16:59 Alright Anton Professional would be something related to bigger institutions if you're making like a big video for a big company that needs to legally check everything, because like if you're making a drone footage for, let's say, Apple, yeah, obviously they need to go through legal restrictions and checking, then yes, if I made a video for that kind of organization, I'd probably be a little more serious because then, yes, that could be checked. If you're making for your own YouTube, I don't think you'd need to do that. I did check that again. There was one person who commented on my video and saying, like, oh, yeah, you must get a license. You must do that. You must do this. And I know that in America now, like if you go to a certain place, you must have a drone flying license. And it totally makes sense. But then I checked whether this is a thing in Vietnam. And apparently, not really. You can get a license. It looks like it's for commercial film. If you're making commercial video, yes. And that's like five hundred dollars. And it's like, as I understood, like for one day of flight or something. And yeah, but that's not exactly what I'm doing. 18:10 Kerry Newsome No, certainly not. And I'm sure if they saw the quality of some of my drone photography or my videos, they'd go, no, she's definitely not making money out of that. So, no. So tell us some tips about flying a drone in Vietnam. Are there any kind of peculiarities? I mean, the little bit of learning that I had was kind of not particularly extensive. The little bit I heard was, you know, things about flying in the middle of the day, kind of not ideal because of the direct sunlight and things like that. So do you have any tips for my listeners about if they are out there drone flying in Vietnam, things they should look out for? 18:56 Alright Anton Yeah, middle of the day, it's my problem too. I'm a little bit lazy. I need to solve it. It's easy. There's this thing called energy filters, like a small filter that you attach to your camera. It's basically like, you know, like sunglasses, but for your drone. And then you can film everything and it doesn't get overexposed. Yeah. And it's kind of easy to buy. And I should because I have an ND filter for my camera because it's the same thing. There's too much sun. I think it's overexposed. And yes, certainly if you want to make nice footage, something like nice and smooth ND filter would be helpful. There was a problem like lifting off sometimes. Like if you want to lift off, you know, Vietnam, there's all these wires and buildings and that would be sometimes a challenge. I wouldn't like it's especially in a city in the time. It's really hard to find like a free spot, a safe spot just to lift off. Because of the congestion. I would struggle with that sometimes. 19:55 Kerry Newsome Yes. And the wires. Yes, of course. Yeah. And what about things like birds? 19:59 Alright Anton Oh, yes, yes, birds. They terrify me. And they are really, really interesting, especially for some reason, swallows. They just like they start circling around drone. I had some footage when you fly it and I see like, wow, those swallows, they are getting quite serious about it. And once I filmed, I traveled in the Ha Long Bay and there were these huge eagles that would be like circling around. You know, swallow is not going to do anything. 20:30 Kerry Newsome It's tiny, but eagle. It could have it for breakfast. It hits the drone. 20:36 Alright Anton Sure. I was like flying around. I didn't film it, but I saw eagle just like one meter away from drone. 20:43 Kerry Newsome I was like, OK, it's not to go back. How do you go navigating the weather? Because let's face it, you can have your drone up there and you're watching the skies and very quickly it can change. So you've got to kind of get, get down and get down quickly sometimes. Have you had that experience? 20:58 Alright Anton Actually, No, I was really lucky. I haven't really filmed anything in the south of Vietnam yet. Like I haven't done in the South, it's the tropical weather that's where the rain happens all the time. North Northern weather is more stable, so it can rain. But then you can see it coming. It would be kind of like a day before it builds up and then, you know, the next day is going to be bad. But it could be windy. The wind is a challenge and it burns the battery really quickly. And sometimes difficult to film anything. Sometimes it's so strong that even the gimbal cannot handle it. It's just impossible. And then it's dangerous because you can't really lift off easily. Landing is challenging. I think wind has been the biggest challenge because it just spoils everything. And then, you know, like you have a pro drone, so it's heavier and it's much more stable. Mine is small, so it's great for travelling. But it's light. So when the yes, yeah. And heavy rain, I would think. Oh, yeah. I mean, rain. Actually, yeah, I was in Bana hills near Danang and the rain was approaching us. Yeah, that just I have to cancel. I see there's rain and, you know, these drones are just not made flying when there's water around it. So, yeah, there are some clouds, a bit of a drizzle. And, yeah, I had to cancel the whole plan because it's just unsafe. The drones do collapse, whatever. 22:38 Kerry Newsome So, yeah, if it happens, then I guess you've got to kind of throw it in, don't you? Yeah, I had a crack at doing Bana hills and it was just fraught with danger. Like every time I tried to set it up to lift off, there'd be some people that would come and I was trying to go like to the furthest point and it was late in the day. So nearly everyone had left. It was quiet. It was quiet and normal. And like, I thought I really wanted to get that kind of as the day was ending, kind of feel and look about it, et cetera. But then the wind came up and started to rain and like I just yeah. So I had to cancel the whole thing. Have you had any success up there? Bana hills? 23:25 Alright Anton No, no. It was in a way a bit of a disaster. But yeah, I was, you know, Bana hills are made with this golden bridge with these hands. I was like, whoa, this is going to be so cool. You know, they build all this artificial village, which is kind of cool anyway. Not really a big fan one. But it is cool. I think so too. Cool. And I thought, wow. Yeah. And then I thought, wow, it's going to be great to fly my drone. And then I get there and it gets covered in clouds like almost immediately. And it starts drizzling. I'm like, OK, well, I can use my camera. It's going to be fine with it. But drone, unfortunately not. And also, like usually they say, as I see it, like on the top of the hills, it's usually almost well, especially for a small drone. It's hard to fly. The wind is too strong. And I've also watched videos that sometimes on the top of the hill, the wind can be so strong that just can carry your drone away and you won't be able to get it back and it's going to be gone. And it happens. So I'm very, very careful with that because like you can fly away. And then on the way back, because of the strength of the wind, you just can fly back. Keep your drone in physical sight or do you let it go? I don't. I do let it go a lot. It's nerve-racking. It's terrifying me still because it's not very expensive, but still it's quite a bit of money. Yeah. So you don't want to lose it. So it's nerve-racking. And yeah, I lose it. I was like, well, very cool because, you know, I need to fly around and see stuff. And yeah, I had a funny case once. I was in Ninh Binh and there's huge complex like temples. It's amazing. It's gigantic. But I didn't want to fly my drone there. So I decided to, OK, we're going to walk around and I get out. And then I lift off just fly around. But I didn't really realize that actually the parking lot is really far from the temple complex, it's like almost a kilometer away. So I lift there and realized, oh, wow, actually I need to fly quite far. 25:27 Kerry Newsome . So you did it? So you lift off from the car park and you had to fly it all the way back to. Oh, right. 25:38 Alright Anton Yeah. It was almost a kilometer. And yeah, like I finally reached it and realized, oh, this is so far away. And it was my literally first trip with the drone. I wasn't really out of physical sight. It didn't go so far away from me. Yeah. And then I started flying around. And then I started losing traction. And one point the screen goes black. Yeah. My heart just drops back. 26:01 Kerry Newsome Yeah. And I find I get that little bit of anxiety with it because I go through that euphoria. Oh, wow. Because I can see what it's seeing and what I'm capturing. So I'm getting excited. But then I'm going, oh, holy hell, this is like a kilometer away or whatever. I've got to kind of get it back. Otherwise, my just anxiety levels just go through the roof and I don't enjoy it then. But in those few moments when I'm really hot or and I'm following a ravine or a river or going around places and behind mountains and things like that, I've done that and yes, it's exciting, but it's a bit scary because you don't want it to crash or not be able to bring it back. 26:46 Alright Anton Just one of the most just one of the most useful lessons that I got from my experience. You know, when you carry your camera, you have this mindset, OK, I need to get in the place and just film around everything I see. That's your mindset. And with drone, it's absolutely different. And I just I'm learning this now that the key point is that you need to find a good vantage point that is like there's no obstruction around you. So it can be maybe 500 meters away from what you actually want to film. But if it is a little bit elevated and there is no walls, no buildings, no mountains, that's like a perfect spot to lift off and film because it would make this mistake. Get very close to the place. And then there is a wall, a brick wall. 27:29 Kerry Newsome And one of the other tips, I don't know that whether you think this is worthwhile, but you almost have to do a little bit of a reconnaissance trip. Don't you think like you can't just kind of arrive and think, oh, yeah, this is just going to be a cinch. Off we go. No, no problems. You almost have to go and do a bit of a surveillance of the area, pick some vantage points where people are not. Do you agree? 27:53 Alright Anton Oh, yeah, totally, totally. 100 percent like the best footage you can make only if you go to the place for a couple of days, just walk around, look what's around, like check the mountains, views, scenery, and then after that, you film stuff. You can get to do it. And that's what I'm going to do in April. I'm going to go to Ha Giang and it's getting my second trip. Like I went there in October, last October. I filmed something, but it was my first trip. So, it was like, well, is this the spot? Is this great? I mean, we need to go further now. I know. So I'm going to go in April and spend like more than a week there. I'm going to film everything there. So, I have time to stop. I know some place that I want to film now. And, you know, but I mean, I live in Vietnam. I had this luxury of, you know, going first and then second. But then the same thing with Koh Samui, I spent like in Thailand, I spent a week there. And yeah, first two or three days were just walking around. And the third, fourth day I just filmed everything. And the footage was amazing. But because I kind of did the recon and I knew where should I go to talk to people? Like, where's the beautiful spot? 29:03 Kerry Newsome Yeah, because that was going to be my next question in just, you know, do you kind of seek out the locals because they always know the great spots? And do you kind of get some advice from them as to help you pick those places and times of day and you should come back in September or something like that? 29:23 Alright Anton Yeah, I think somebody told me before that, oh, well, this is for that season…. 29:32 Kerry Newsome Yeah, I know. Didn't you read that somewhere or listen to a podcast that could have told you that? 29:37 Alright Anton Yeah, yeah, I should. I mean, with drone footage, I actually never really asked anybody because I think it's well, I did, but I not with the local, like with the expats who lived in the area. And I asked them about the rules and regulations, like in Thailand and sometimes in Vietnam to like, where could I go? I would ask them for direction and ask for the places because locals usually know it better. And in Vietnam, things don't really get updated on the Internet. So, you can't really always rely on the Internet and believe whatever they say there, because things change dramatically and people don't always change it on the Google. So you can look at the place and the world can be open, but then you go there is closed and there were, for example, like in the Danang, there is this beautiful temple with Lady Buddha statue and then there's a little peninsula that goes around it. And I thought, wow, this is so nice to go there. Like a beautiful peninsula, like a bit hilly road. And then, no, I couldn't because there was this guy standing and he said, like, no, you're not allowed because you're on a fully automatic motorbike. Only semi-automatic motorbikes are allowed to go to that peninsula for some reason, because as far as I understood, like the terrain there is kind of challenging. So in a fully automatic motorbike, no. So if I had talked to somebody in the Danang, then I would have known probably. So, yeah, it's important. I always talk to locals because they especially like in the hotel, in the hostel, they always know some things that are not on internet. 31:14 Kerry Newsome I think challenging around that region that you're talking about in Sontra is there's a military base also that was very strong there for a while. And I think still part of it is. So I've been tempted to go around, but I've got a shake of head by local police or whatever, saying, like, don't even think about it, you know. So, yes, so it is it is a nice Hai Van pass and all that is awesome. So that would be a great place. So that leads to what places have you filmed that you highly rate so far? I know you've got a few on your list coming up, but what are the ones that you've done so far that are really great? 32:00 Alright Anton Ninh Binh is magnificent. It's just unbelievably beautiful. And like, you know, they compare it to Ha Long Bay and Ha Long Bay is also amazing. But the thing is that Ha Long Bay is on the water. So you film, you need to be on the boat usually, and you kind of restrict it. You can easily walk around to get a better spot. No, you can restrict it. It's amazing. But in Ninh Binh, yeah, you just cycle around and it's fast. It's amazing. Those vast mountains are so beautiful. And like, yeah, the first video I made with my drone was from Ninh Binh and it just it's I couldn't get enough of it. And, you know, there's this point when you're just sitting there, you film and you're realizing, wow, this is unbelievable. This is so beautiful. And yeah, that's one of the best places. Ha Long Bay, I'm going to go there again. 32:56 Kerry Newsome But it's… It is. And I mean, all the photography I've seen, you know, that adds up, absolutely. And I've had people on the show that run tours, Flipside adventure tours, the guys there run motorbike tours and things around. And just the way he spoke, Tom Stone, you know, how he spoke about that area, you could just tell he was just so passionate. And it just came through in everything he said. So I would think Ha Giang and I think places like Mu Cang Chai. I mean, you're sitting in the best seat in Hanoi. I mean, you can go kind of left or right or wherever. You've got plenty of choices up there because I think the scenery is definitely more extensive. There's more of it in the north than the south. And yeah, it's just got those jaw dropping vistas, really, aren't they? So you've got some projects coming up and I know everyone will want to see them. So tell us what you've got in store for yourself. Where are you going to head? 34:03 Alright Anton It's just I spend a lot of time on creating a video. I am a bit of a perfectionist and it doesn't really go well along with YouTube. They want people to post every week very regularly. I don't like that. And that's why my number of my subscribers are very low. But I stick to my strategy. I spent like two months, like one video because I also have a full- time job. So two months is one video. And I travel a lot. So I have a collection of places that I need to still process. Right now, working on one in Hoi An is going to be amazing. One of my favorite places. Yeah, I got just two more weeks to make it. Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's one of my most favorite places in Vietnam. And yeah, I made really nice footage there and a nice story. So that's yeah, that's in progress. But then I also have Nha Trang, I've got Ha Long Bay. What else? Well, in Thailand, Penang in Malaysia. Well, Thailand. I'm going to make a video about Bangkok Hotel. There's like a really strange and unusual hotel. It's called The Atlanta. And it's like really old. It's like one of the oldest hotels in Bangkok. And I stayed there for like four days. I just was running around. It's outstanding. It's got like the oldest swimming pool hotel in Bangkok. It's called The Atlanta. And they kept the design and style. I feel like it's still very, very old, but very well maintained. Then Koh Samui. 35:43 Kerry Newsome So there's about like six or seven videos waiting, waiting to be edited. I can understand. What about places like the Mekong Delta? And you've got Can Tho, Con Dao Islands, Phu Quoc? 35:54 Alright Anton Been to Phu Quoc, it's nice, but at that time I didn't have my drone. So I'll definitely go there again because it's such an easy island to get to. And it's just so nice and relaxing. Con Dao, I haven't been there yet. It's in my plans. So when I go there, I'll definitely… The same thing with the Mu Cang Chai. I haven't been there yet. That's just one of the ideas where I want to reach at some point in the future. Because Vietnam has so much to offer. It's unbelievable. I lived in Malaysia before this for three years and it's great. It's awesome. But then one of the drawbacks is that the number of the places where you can go is kind of limited. Like in Peninsular Malaysia, there would be maybe eight spots where you can go. Approximately. Yeah, nice. But then Vietnam has over 20, 30 places that are just amazing. And that's partially why I'm in Vietnam. I left Malaysia during the Covid period and everything was very restricted and closed. So I couldn't really travel much. So I headed to Vietnam because I got all these opportunities to travel to Hanoi and North. 37:18 Kerry Newsome It's so beautiful. And I mean, you haven't mentioned Sapa. Have you been to Sapa yet? 37:22 Alright Anton Yeah, once. It was it was actually kind of funny story because I did this trip to Sapa in 2019 just before Covid and it was the year when I bought my motorbike. So I got my motorbike. I started driving motorbike for the first time in my life in Malaysia. And I was like, cool. Now I know how to ride a motorbike. So I had a long holiday in December, like one month. And I thought, cool, I'm going to do a trip across Vietnam from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh on my own. And then my friends were like, yeah, can you really get through? No, this, you know, like, no, it's not safe. I don't know? And I was very enthusiastic, but then I decided, OK, fine, fine. OK, I'm going to do Sapa. So I decided to do Sapa trip on my own, my first trip. And it was it was hardcore because it's a long way. It's like over 300 kilometers and I'm not experienced. So, I was I was naive. I thought I would get from Hanoi to Sapa in one go. And like everything's going to be cool because I did some trips in Malaysia. But Malaysia and Vietnam are very, very different. Yeah, like Malaysia is the highway. So you can go like 110 kilometers per hour. And it's easy. It's safe because the roads are built for that. You can go 140, 150. It's just straight. And, you know, there's a lot of space for manoeuvre. Vietnam, like, no, 60 feels dangerous. And so, yes, I had to stop in the middle, like in Yen Bai, because it was too much. And then I had my first motorbike accident there. I fell and I slipped. And, yeah, I got a little bit bruised. And like it was just, you know, first time experience in my life. Like, oh, my goodness, what am I going to do? And I fell. My bike wouldn't stop. My knee was bruised. And there was this Vietnamese guy who just ran to me and helping me. Like, I put on bandages, clean my wounds, like do stuff. And I was like, oh, well, and he wouldn't speak English at all. Like we were just, you know, trying to exchange with gestures. And I like want to offer some money because he helped me a lot. He checked my bike, you know, because I was in a bit of a shock. And when you fall, the hands were trembling and he was so kind. And he's still like, go there, go there, fix your bike. And they fixed my bike. And then it was it happened just, you know, there's this bottleneck road on the way to the winding road. So just I fell right at the beginning of it. So I fell, got injured, bruised, but then I still had to go all the way up. 40:00 Kerry Newsome And especially you're probably in shock and you're riding that bike. Oh, my goodness. Oh, I know people have very adventurous ideas about with motorbikes, but I've heard too many bad stories that, you know, and especially that trip that you're talking about from Hanoi down to Ho Chi Minh. Oh, my gosh, that is fraught with danger. I don't think I know anybody that's done that trip that hasn't ended off the bike at some point, because, as you say, 60 kilometers is fast in some of those areas and the roads not all the best. So when you got to Sapa, was it worth it, like in your mind, did it kind of meet expectations? 40:28 Alright Anton . It was strange. So like I reached it and I reached it really late, exhausted. And, you know, again, I was like it was my first trip in Vietnam on my own. Super naive. I was like, yeah, it's going to be cool. I like these kind of holidays. But again, like now I'm more experienced and now I kind of know what to expect and what to look into. But then, yeah, so I got injured and I didn't book a hotel. I didn't do anything. I was I didn't I didn't do research. I didn't do anything. I just like, yeah, let's go and see how it goes. So I get there and it's cold. It's like there are all these construction sites and everything. And I get into a hotel and it's freezing. There's like no insulation, no central heating. I'm shaking because, you know, like my bruises and everything and the water is cold. It was like, oh, this is a disaster. And I didn't like that sound. It was like, no, no. So I started Googling. Finally, I decided to check on the internet. So what's good? And then I then I Google this place. I think it's a village down from Sapa, basically like 30 minutes ride a motorbike. Motorbike again was exciting. So I decided to go there. So I get on the bike, go down. The road is terrifying. It's just muddy road. And, yeah, I was I was scared. I was so scared. I was thinking my worst fear was that whatever starts raining because this muddy road was dry. So I could get through. But if it is wet and I know I was injured, so I was thinking, wow. It's I was terrified. But that village was amazing because it's located in the valley. And so these huge mountains are round the waterfalls and fields. It is so beautiful, so quiet, so peaceful, you know, and just, you know, it's a village. So everything's kind of simple. You just walk around and go for a little hike. Most of the time, I we're just like in my hammock and just staring at the mountains. And it was that was enough that that was perfect. 42:45 Kerry Newsome I was thinking about your bike trip up to Ban Gioc, I'm not saying that right, either. 42:51 Alright Anton The big waterfall that's on the Chinese border there right at the top. I mean, to this waterfall that you mentioned, I think it's said like “Bunzop” but it's because northern and southern accents are different. So in the south, they'll pronounce in the one way in the north and another way. But when you go to the very north, the border, they'll have some different accents. It's very confusing. But yeah, that waterfall. Yeah, yeah, it's really beautiful. I'm a little bit concerned about flying my drone there because it's right on the border with China. So actually, I think it might be really easy to lose the drone. I have seen people filming with drone there and flying just, you know, around the waterfall. But I feel it might be dangerous. And I heard people were asking not to fly a drone. I couldn't understand why, because, I mean, just across the river, there's Chinese border, you can see all those Chinese walking around. And yeah, but I made a video about it. It was I was really lucky because it's in the middle of the covid outbreak. There was like a little break, like a month break when they eased the restrictions and just got a taxi and went there and was empty. Like the video about it is amazing. It's my channel, too. But any last minute tips for my drone flyers that come to Vietnam? Like when you're filming mountains or buildings, well, OK, let's say mountains. Don't fly over the mountain and behind. That's one of the things that I just need to remember. Like I when I lift off, I want to be like in the middle, like in the valley. And then I fly around the valley. Then the connection doesn't get cut off. But if you see a beautiful mountain and decide to fly above, then it's very easy to lose the drone. I had a couple of these nerve wrecking experiences when the connection goes away. And then normally, normally the screen goes black, but it doesn't mean that you have lost control of your drone, so you can also see like in the corner, there'll be like a small map that shows you where is the drone. You can actually see the drone still follows your controls. So it means like the broadcast has been interrupted, but you still have the control of the drone. So in this case, I'll just turn around, go up and then go back as fast as possible. Yeah, that would be better up to try to regain connection and then return because you still usually have control and then there is automatic. That's always my side card. And you can set the. Yeah, but you need to set the altitude because if you set like 50 meters, it means it will go up to 50 meters and then fly and then land. It's like 20 meters. Yeah, you'll go to 20 meters and then ram into the mountain. So you have to think like what's around. I would not so nice fly like in Hoi An. And I would know that there is not a single building that is taller than 30 meters. It's just very low rise. So I could fly that this is my return point would be like 40. So I know it's even if I lose it. 45:47 Kerry Newsome Yeah, it's a good feature of the of the drone that automatic home button. They should have one installed for everybody on whatever they do on automatic home button. Thank you very much for coming on, Anton. I've loved talking with you and I'm hoping everyone listening has got a few handy tips so they don't either crash into mountains, lose their drone, but still have a wonderful time droning in Vietnam. 46:17 Alright Anton . Thanks a lot for having me, Kerry. It was a great pleasure. It was lovely to talk to you. Alright Anton Danang Video - https://youtu.be/ifTbSl3mgAA Alright Anton Ninh Binh video - https://youtu.be/-z4MNMApXmw Alright Anton Cao Bang – Ban Gioc Waterfall - https://youtu.be/8L0Q0El8mOw

0996e913-3e85-43d0-94f7-b082c48fd09aInsights into Vietnam travel beyond 2021 What About Vietnam – 3-1 Travel Industry experts share their insights into Vietnam beyond 2021 [00:00:36] Kerry Newsome: Xin chào, and welcome to What About Vietnam. What a week! Can you believe the news that has been coming through about Vietnam? It's staggering. I’m so concerned for Vietnam. I really feel for everyone at the moment. While the numbers in Vietnam have been focused largely on the North and they still are, I think the rising numbers in Ho Chi Minh City is where the most recent concern is coming through. Yes, it's very hard to know. It's a watch and wait and see, just how they can get on top of this as quickly as possible, but I have every confidence that Vietnam can do it as they did in the very early stages of the pandemic back in 2020. Look, just to give some context, I've got the guests on this show, which are going to really give you some industry perspectives, Gary Bowerman and Hannah Pearson from The South East Asia Travel Show. They have their own podcast, and I was on their show a couple of weeks ago. In that show, I was reminded of just how important it is to get really good advice and to get it from experts. If you're like me, I’m getting a lot of information through news feeds and Facebook pages and Instagram groups and all that chatter that is out there. It's very hard to try and feel like you're getting the right advice or the best advice. I’m really delighted to have Hannah and Gary on. In no way in my show am I trying to give you COVID updated advice as in a minute. It's just impossible to do, and it's not really the aim of my show. The aim of my show is to give you the best possible advice I can get you to help you make informed decisions about traveling to Vietnam in the future, so that you can hear from travelers from their own perspectives. Today is just going to give you that extra industry information. We're going to talk about vaccination rollouts in Vietnam. We're going to talk about Visas. We're going to talk about domestic versus international. We're going to talk about just how Vietnam gives priority to their own residents, similarly to all of us, but with a population of nearly 100 million, it's a big deal for them. It's going to be a big deal to get the vaccination rollout there. A lot to be revealed in this program today. I know you're going to love it, and I’m sure Gary and Hannah are really going to give you some insights you may not have thought about. Stay tuned and please welcome Gary and Hannah to the program. [music] Welcome Hannah and Gary to the What About Vietnam Podcast. [00:03:48] Gary Bowerman: Hi, Kerry. [00:03:48] Hannah Pearson: Thanks for having us. [00:03:50] Kerry: I’m thrilled to have you on the show to get a travel industry perspective. Our news feeds fill up hourly with advice on COVID, travel restrictions and latest outbreaks. It's hard to keep up and to know what source to trust. The media is driving much of the information we consume. As hosts of the Southeast Asia Travel Show Podcast, I know you both are heavily involved within the Asia Pacific travel and tourism industry. Gary, I know, is closely monitoring the situation in roles working with the Mekong Tourism Advisory Group, leading hotel groups, tourism boards and online travel agents. Hannah, you provide a very influential weekly report tracking the impact of COVID-19 on the Southeast Asian tourism industry and working hard within the industry tracking trends developing within the Southeast Asian and Muslim travel sectors. I’m sure my listeners are going to be very keen to hear your take on how this region is shaping up as a whole and what's in store for travel in the second half of 21 and beyond. Without further ado, and I’m not sure who to throw this question to, so guys feel free to jump in as you see fit. When you think of Vietnam, what springs to mind first, given the current state of affairs, re-travel, and also there's still a record thus far? [00:05:19] Hannah: Maybe I'll go first then. I think the thing that really stands out for me about Vietnam is just how efficiently they have handled everything so far. To date and I checked out the case numbers this morning, they've had less than 6,000 new cases since the beginning of this thing. That is, for me, super impressive, especially when you look at countries like Indonesia, Philippines who have crossed the million mark. They're countries with a similar population size. They've also got a lot of people, but Vietnam has somehow managed to really control this. I think a lot of that comes down to how fast they react. They react very fast with pretty strict measures, but those seem to be working. What we really saw last year, I think, was they were one of the few bright spots in terms of domestic tourism in the region. Their domestic tourism was really going somewhere. I think when it comes to 2021 things, I’m not saying that they're falling apart. [chuckles] They're not at Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines levels, but we have started to see more increases, more frequency of surges, right? Right now, Vietnam is in this fourth wave. I think it is. Each time they're getting a bit more complicated, so this time I think they couldn't really track necessarily where they come from. There's lots of different origins. There's lots of different variants as well. Things are getting increasingly difficult to manage, but things still seem to be fairly under control right now. [00:06:50] Gary: I would agree with everything that Hannah said. I think it's certainly last year-- as you say, it's a little bit more difficult now because the variance of this virus and its transmissibility across Southeast Asia is proving very, very difficult. Vietnam is just one of the countries that's really struggling right now. Certainly last year and early part of this year, I’d say that Vietnam was the closest to China in terms of the speed that it actually responded and the way it closed down local outbreaks, tracking and tracing, very, very strong focus on that, which is something we haven't had here in Malaysia. I’d say that Vietnam's success was the way that it just responded incredibly quickly to each outbreak. You mentioned there the economy, which is a very, very important part. That's one of the reasons we've discussed on the podcast about "Will Vietnam reopen? When will it reopen?" There's a school of thought that says it doesn't really need to reopen yet because it does need to protect that economy, and it also needs to make sure that it keeps everybody safe and secure, keeps the economy moving because of investment. I don't think there's any doubt that when COVID is done and gone. The two big investment destinations in our region will be Vietnam and Indonesia. That's already happening anyway. [00:08:07] Kerry: Correct. [00:08:06] Gary: That's where international investors are looking for the future. A lot of the investment you already have in the North of Vietnam is companies that were operating in China and have actually diversified some of their operations out of China into Vietnam for a number of reasons. That will continue in future. The economic prospects for Vietnam should be pretty strong in future. The fundamentals are there, but I 100% agree with you, Kerry. It's a really difficult balancing act right now. I would say that international tourism probably isn't the highest priority. It's protecting people and protecting the economy. [00:08:41] Kerry: Getting on to a bigger picture thinking, what do you think are going to be, just from your observations, the biggest changes in the way we travel? Do you think there's going to be some things in the way we travel that are going to be temporary or short-lived or will there be some that are going to be permanent fixtures? [00:09:03] Gary: That is the million dollar question . We get asked it all the time. We ask ourselves it all the time. I think a lot of the work that I do, particularly over the last year when travel has been paused essentially, is that I work a lot in consumer economies, so Vietnam and Indonesia, the two economies that we look at mostly. We've looked a great deal at the way consumers have behaved over the past year. It's been great change. We read these media stories about everybody's moving online. People are buying certain products online that they didn't buy before they're buying more of other products. There are a lot of other behavioral changes as well, particularly in terms of the way consumers respond to media campaigns, the way they respond to video campaigns. Lots of things have changed over the past year. You notice I mentioned before that I think Vietnam and Indonesia are going to be the two strongest economic sectors going forward. There's a lot of projections are starting to happen. This is what happened in travel. When things start to go well, people start projecting 10 years down the road or five years down the road. I think with consumers as with travelers, there's a great deal of uncertainty right now. There could be a lot of the things that we're seeing happening now. I just experienced during the pandemic because there's a lot of things we can't do. We are socially distanced. We have movement restrictions "Which come and go" We have the fear of the virus, which is a huge, huge fear. I think in terms of what travel will be like in the future and the way consumers will respond in future is a great unknown. I think the travel industry itself is looking for all these ways to try and model what could happen in future. They are great unknowns, and I think anybody who actually puts the neck on the line and predicts this is making a big risk. [00:10:42] Hannah: This is something that Gary and I always say that we've never seen so much tourism industry featured in the media in Southeast Asia and worldwide. It's almost the-- I guess this is going to be the last thing that gets back to normal, so perhaps it's what everybody is focusing on, right? "Oh, flights have opened up." People get excited about that because it's like that step towards normality. I think one big change that Vietnam has perhaps seen over the last year is this expansion of domestic flight networks, so we've seen airlines like Vietjet, like Vietnam Airlines and like Bamboo Airways add secondary tertiary routes, linking different destinations that were perhaps never linked before to open those up and a lot more cooperation between provinces as well in terms of promoting one another and creating interesting different routings. I do think that that is going to continue. I don't think that that will be temporary. I think once those routes are there and people see that the markets are there, that's going to continue. [00:11:45] Kerry: Typically Vietnam, they are brilliant at reinventing themselves. They have such an ability to make an opportunity out of adversity. There'll be people that were selling one thing one day and will now realize that they need to go into something else because guess what? The market's changed. Their adaptability is something to be admired, and we're seeing this everywhere in all the major tourist hubs in Vietnam, where people were running restaurants one minute. Now, they've got an amazing takeaway business that will be their new business moving forward. They just adapt and move on. [00:12:31] Gary: I think there's an element of that. I think the adaptability is absolutely true, but I think that it's often underplayed just how much creativity there is in Vietnam, particularly in the major hubs. If you look at Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City, particularly amongst young people, young creatives, young media, young fashion, young lifestyle, young music, they're really vibrant hubs right now. I said this before on the podcast that those two cities really remind me of what I lived in China in the early 2000s. Shanghai and Beijing were going through a very similar competitive scenario where there was a lot of creativity in Beijing, there was a lot of creativity in Shanghai. They often played off each other. The nation was benefiting from that because young people were really at the forefront of creating a new lifestyle in many ways. I see that a lot of parallels with that in Vietnam right now. [00:13:19] Kerry: Yes, and I was talking to a girl. We were talking about Saigon during 2020, and she was talking about how entrepreneurs literally who were found themselves stuck in Vietnam during 2020. We were all locked down, but these people were on the spot, putting together small events. DJs also found themselves, and musicians found themselves in Saigon. They were doing secret weekends away with these great fantastic events. People decided to expand their businesses. There's been further development in craft beers and rooftop bars. People just made the best of it in the best possible way and just turned their entrepreneurial heads. I just really admire them, the way they can do it. [music] What did the industry miss as far as developments were concerned in their forecasting and feeding the media, etc.? What was the most overlooked development do you think so far? [00:14:38] Hannah: I think a lot of it is down to that cooperation internationally. I think we've really seen a lack of nations not working together with one another. We've certainly seen that, haven't we? With the vaccination rollout, and countries very much keeping vaccines to themselves. But just in terms of, you know, you said everyone thought vaccines were going to be the be all and end all. Nobody seemed to think beyond that. "What happens when you are vaccinated? With vaccine certificates, are they going to be issued? Are they not? What format should they be? Should they be digital?" But does it matter what vaccine you had? Does it matter the length of time between these vaccines being administered, the different doses. There's so many different variables. This is one of my big bug bears that I’m always saying, "I just don't know why people didn't think about this sooner." We should be thinking about that this time last year, at the same time as developing these vaccines, so that once the vaccines were ready, everything "Boom" could be rolled out as-- well, never, things are never going to go smoothly, but as fast and as efficiently as possible. That's not been the case. [00:15:47] Gary: Yes, I would agree. I think the major developments in terms of how we respond to COVID-19 worldwide, but in Asia as well, have been scientific. Hannah's a big advocate of testing new testing protocols. There's been a lot of innovations in testing. We've seen saliva test, breath tests, all these different kinds of testing protocols are available now. The problem we don't really understand is the travel industry wants to get back to the way things were before, and that scale, that’s big numbers. That isn't going to happen anytime soon even with vaccines. There is going to have to be some interim period where we allow people to travel again in a phased and staggered manner. That will inevitably involve removing quarantines. We have to get rid of quantities if you're going to have people travel. This simply is a massive disincentive. To do that you need really good testing, and you need to make sure that it's robust, that it works, that it's accurate and is verifiable across countries. As Hannah said, this lack of integration and almost trust between different governments is just palpable and getting worse, I think. The issue we have is the science, the technology, much of it is there, but the bureaucratic side of things is stymieing everything right now. [00:17:05] Kerry: Yes, and I’m really glad you brought that up because that's what I’m saying, too, that cohesion, that transparency between countries, that sharing of knowledge. We thought that scientists getting to be able to create a vaccine in such a short amount of time. That was sheer genius, and that was great cooperation within countries and sharing their expertise. You're right that they got to there, but then, okay, well, how were we going to verify that? Where was the credibility factor going to come in that you or me, we are vaccinated with the level of vaccination that a country will accept us? [00:17:48] Gary: Yes, I agree. I think it's a two-way thing as well. It's not just vaccinations for travelers is vaccinations for residents at the other end. You've got to have people feeling confident and safe and not wary of foreigners coming into the destination for the first time in 18 months or two years or whatever that is. There is going to be a changing mindset as well. I think the other thing that this region is really struggling with at the moment is empathy towards people who don't want to have a vaccine. There are many reasons why people don't want to get a vaccine. Governments are really having this hard view of "Well, you take it, or you don't take it." There's got to be a better understanding of reasons why people don't want to take it and trying to control people rather than trying to use a stick approach. You've got to look at some opportunities, I think. Because I think one of the things we're seeing here in Malaysia is the vaccine roll is incredibly slow. A lot of that is also because people are not turning up for appointments, and in in some cases, simply just not registering. But there is a bit of a slow role. You're starting to see that more people are encouraged when they see their friends or their relatives posting on social media they're getting vaccinated. It's slow, but it does happen. I think there is just this, like you said, this idea that vaccines are a panacea, and that will happen within a few months. We're finding out that that just isn't going to be possible. [00:19:10] Hannah: It's not only this year, but it's what's going to happen next year and boosters. I think a lot of countries see this finite end to it. It's not, is it? It's not going to end once you've got to 70%. It's just going to have to keep going at least for another few years. I think there's still not that realization in governments yet that that's the plan. It's very easy for Laos to say, "Oh, we're going to reach herd immunity in 2022." But by that point, many countries would have already been on the-- they'll be on the booster doses by then. They're not going to be just on the first round of herd immunity. [00:19:47] Kerry: That's how the narrative I can see going. It'll be like, "Oh, well, you had the shot back in 21. You haven't had the booster in 22, so does that make you, then, less of a good traveler or less of the ideal traveler?" When I’m filling out my Visa application to enter a country, are they going to ask me when was your COVID vaccination? When was your last? And is there going to be some algorithm, we'll say. "Oh, no. Cut her off because it's been 12 months since she's had it. She hasn't had the booster." All of this validation kind of stuff, I just see maybe my crystal ball is going a bit crazy at the moment. [00:20:33] Gary: I think that's a really good point. That often doesn't come up. I’ve not heard in discussions. I’ve heard about vaccines that "When did you have your vaccine? Does that actually impact your ability to apply for a Visa?" Not heard much about that. I think it's absolutely true. [00:20:49] Kerry: All right, so I’m going to throw the real curly at you now because I’m going to talk about travel bubbles. Because there's been a few that have burst recently, and I've been watching very closely those travel bubbles that were on the table for Vietnam. Do you see travel bubbles still to be relevant, and can you maybe share what you're hearing that could be the country match-ups there in the Southeast Asian region? [00:21:23] Gary: “ Travel bubble” is the word that we have been asked about and used the most in on our podcast, on interviews, everything. It's a moving feast. I think "Let's go back. Let's look at the origin of travel bubbles." That was Australian, New Zealand back in April last year. It took a year for it to actually happen, but it was proposed by New Zealand, and agreed with by Australia. There were very specific circumstances about that if you look at the two countries, very isolated geographically, strong travel flows between the two countries, manage the virus very well. There is trust between the two populations. There's a lot of people live in each other's countries. They work in each other's countries. They are very complementary in that sense. There's no borders as well. There's no land borders to get in the way. In Southeast Asia, we have very poorest land borders. That was almost the template for travel bubbles, but also I think it was the limit of travel bubbles. I just don't think they work in Southeast Asia. I don't really see how you can have travel bubbles across borders. They're not going to work. I think the idea that it has actually got up and running in Australia and New Zealand in recent months. You've had these slight pauses during that time, but generally it's working quite well. Even Jacinda Ardern, the New Zealand prime minister said last week that they are really only a short-term expedient that going forward, it will be about vaccinated travel. I think that's the way that the Southeast Asia will be moving forward. The terminology of travel bubbles will probably continue to get used, but I think we're looking more-- the reopenings that are being proposed are generally about vaccinated travel. Will they be with specific markets? Well, possibly yes, possibly no, but I’m not sure that's actually a travel bubble. As you say that's because both destinations are looking at absolute numbers, and they are worried about extrapolation of numbers. The problem with that is that doesn't really give anybody any confidence to travel because if you know that you're going to be traveling to a destination where you could get trapped and you wouldn't be able to get back or you're going to have to stay longer than you hoped for. I was listening to a podcast with Tourism Australia quite recently. They said one of the problems that the bubble with Australia, New Zealand is encountering at the moment isn't a fear of COVID. It's a fear of COVID outbreaks occurring in your home destination or where you're traveling to. You're going to have to spend a lot longer, and it's going to cost you a lot more money. That's the problem with bubbles when they're not vaccine related, I think. In terms of Southeast Asia, I think that the trust between countries is so low right now. Whether we're going to have bubbles between countries is difficult. In Southeast Asia, we're so reliant on the Chinese market as well. We're so reliant on Japan and South Korea as well that those markets are so vital in revitalizing travel in this region. Without them, even if you have a bubble between Southeast Asian countries, the way the economies are at the moment, the way the case numbers are, the way that the fear of the virus is right now, the actual travel flows will be pretty low. If you're going to open a bubble right now in the region, you've been looking at long-haul travels. You can look probably Americans or Europeans. We don't really know how long-haul travel is going to-- it's going to pan out right now. It's a very difficult situation. It's very difficult for governments. Governments do get a lot of criticism for the way they're managing this, but the other argument is that most Asian countries are being cautious. They are putting safety first. [00:24:50] Kerry: What do you envisage then for Vietnam for the second half and first quarter of 22? [00:24:55] Gary: I think in terms of domestic tourism, what we will probably see because of the-- I wouldn't say the fear factor, but I think the uncertainty that's been created by this new role as I think we'll start to see more shorter trips, probably day trips, driving trips. I think we'll see a lot more of that. Perhaps in the last quarter of the year, confidence will return, and you might start to see people flying a little bit further domestically. I think for the foreseeable future, there is going to be a bit of caution. I think the industry will have to build that in. [00:25:27] Kerry: Even for the domestic traveler within Vietnam, the possibility that they could end up in 21 days quarantine. That would have to be a serious consideration for them as well because they wouldn't get that time off from their jobs, or they just wouldn't have the luxury of time or money to do that. I think they would have to make a very educated guesses to where they would go for those trips. It would have to be 100% guaranteed, I think, for them to feel that they're not going to get trapped in that. Because as you said, Hannah, Vietnam took very decisive action very early on. If they even suspected for a moment that you could be a carrier or whatever, you were taken to the side of the road, and you were tested, or you were put in quarantine because I was there in March 2020. It was decisive action, and they're still doing it. They will do on-the-spot fines in Saigon if you are not wearing a mask. They deem it if they decide that that could be hazardous to people around them. Yes, it is going to be watching the clock. I am concerned about the roll out of their vaccination. You're right, the population of 100 million, and in certain regions, how they would even get the vaccination to certain regions of Vietnam? Where some people-- I was talking to a guy yesterday said, "Some people work on one side of the border and live on the other." There is cross-pollination happening there. We could sit here and talk, couldn't we? It's a full-time job. Let's face it. [00:27:27] Gary: It really is. When you came onto our podcast a couple of weeks ago, Kerry, we threw a curve ball at you. We said, "What about international travel? When's that going to happen?" You answered it very, very carefully and very, very well. Since you've been on podcast, have you heard anything more-- what are people saying from your contacts about the likelihood of an international reboot? [00:27:49] Kerry: From Australia? [00:27:50] Gary: No, in terms of Vietnam. [00:27:56] Kerry: Look. As I intimated at the beginning of the show, the indications are to me that Vietnam will, and doesn't at the moment, have as a priority travel, international travel. For their GDP, international travel, I think, ranges somewhere between, I don't know, 10-11%. Their manufacturing is going through the roof. Their financial investment is going through the roof. As a country, they're doing really well. I just don't think they want to muddy the waters with international travel as dubious as it is at the moment. So it's not a problem. It is a problem for the future for us who want to go back and travel, I think. What I’m also seeing is Vietnam working very hard at sustaining travel operators and travel businesses by incentivizing their domestic market. If you've got 96 million people being able to move around, you've got a very decent domestic travel market that hasn't really been nurtured in the past. I know Hội An was absolutely in jubilation with domestic travelers during Tết because they had the old town to themselves. It was back to being theirs 100%. We weren't there. There are very few expats still in Vietnam, and not being encouraged to stay, I might add. I’m hearing lots of noise around people with Tourist Visas that are not being encouraged to stay or not being allowed to renew their Tourist Visa. As you say, it's a movable feast, that's for sure, and certainly, keeps me in a full-time role as I know it does you guys, too- [00:29:59] Gary: ( laugh) [00:29:59] Kerry: -just to work out what next and try and to give people the insights that you hear and you find with some level of credibility, knowing that it could change in a heartbeat. [00:30:12] Gary: I think you really nailed it there. One of the most difficult aspects of predicting or even looking at the way international travel will go in future is just this stop-start nature of domestic travel, until domestic travel is on a more even keel. It certainly isn't possible to consider international travel for a number of reasons, not just governmental, but just the comfort and safety and the confidence of local people. I think that is going to be absolutely vital in most countries, in Asia, how they deal with this going forward. [00:30:43] Kerry: Absolutely, look, Gary and Hannah, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a privilege to have you on, given your busy schedules. Let's hope our next chat will be about travel destinations opening up in the region and maybe thriving under some new sustainable travel models. I just want to say thank you again. [00:31:04] Gary: Thanks very much, Kerry. It's great to be on the show. [music] [00:31:07] Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What About Vietnam. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam.

940709d2-c571-4afa-887e-c01f442e35f7Monkeys in the wild at Son Tra Nature Reserve Danang What About Vietnam - S2-22 Visit Danang and see monkeys in the wild at the Son Tra Nature Reserve Kerry Newsome: [00:00:01] Hello Thanh, how are you? Thanh : [00:00:57] Hello, Kerry, and your lovely audience. I am really well, thank you. Kerry Newsome: [00:01:06] Ok, that is great to hear, Thanh. Now tell us something about the Son Tra Nature Education Centre and the Son Tra Nature Reserve. What can you tell us? Thanh : [00:01:36] I believe that a lot of you have visited now the most liveable city in Vietnam. And when you are looking down to the city from the airport, you have you see something green coming up from the water and you can feel curious later on. Thanh : [00:01:54] Upon arrival, you will see that green, lush plantation almost wherever you are in the city. [00:02:04] Son Tra Nature Reserve was established in nineteen seventy seven and the Son Tra Peninsula used to be an isolated island before 15th century. But thanks to the accumulation of silt from rivers, the only way from the city to the peninsula has gradually formed. The size of the peninsula isn't big is four thousand three hundred and seventy hectares. [00:02:47] And can you believe that it plays a significant role in local life? First of all, it is the frontier protecting the city from storm which come from the ocean. Secondly, it can provide oxygen for four million people, not only one million population of Danang and the people who live here or come for a visit. They can see the nature and ten minute, which is incredible. If you travel to the other places in Vietnam, that is not feasible because in Hanoi or HCMC the main city, the traffic is terrible and even the other locations are pretty far away in the remote parts. [00:03:56] So in nature reserve is such a precious gem of the city and everybody here is blessed. Can you believe that they see the blue sky every day and fresh air is just a pleasant life experience. [00:04:29] Unfortunately, the reserve has been threatened by human activities such as illegal hunting and poaching. But the more serious issue is the building of resorts and hotels or mass tourism development. [00:04:53] And it was the reason why Greenviet, a local non profit organization, decided to establish St. Charles Asia Education Center in 2018 and through founders believed that education will have to save the situation before it becomes too late. [00:05:24] And our main visitors are students or university students because they are willing to make changes. Otherwise, they are either fearful or too old to make any changes. [00:05:51] The Nature Education Centre is spacious because. It was built on a rental space in the Sunshine District is the last available, not fully occupied neighbourhood in the city. So the housing price is insanely expensive. Can you believe the housing price is about, two fifty thousand US dollar for one hundred square meter, and it is covid price, it used to be higher. Yeah. So Greenviet doesn't have the money to buy a place. They built a temporary education center with the hope that the city council would appreciate their effort and issue a better location. Unfortunately, since it was established in 2018, our voice hasn't been heard and we have struggled a lot, especially since the Covid outbreak has stopped us from welcoming visitors and donors. Yeah. Kerry Newsome : [00:07:28] Just let me interject here just to give perspective for our listeners. So the reserve is located just a little bit out of Danang, isn't it? About 10 kilometers, maybe five to 10 kilometers. [00:07:53] Kerry, the peninsula is located in the north east of the north, and if someone stays in the city center or an expat neighborhood, the traveling distance would be from 7 to 10 km, but it takes them only 15 or 20 minutes to get there. Kerry Newsome : [00:08:24] Yes. Yes. So it's very close, as you say, and beautiful and green and lush. So for a new visitor, as you say, they arrive into Danang airport. What would you suggest for a new visitor if they would like to come and visit this area? Thanh: [00:08:51] I want to tell you a thing, everybody can rent a scooter, a manual bike and do an exploration by himself, but he is kindly requested to pay us a visit so that he can learn about the biodiversity and what should he do or shouldn't do when he is doing his trip. Because I'm in the peninsula is home of more than one thousand three hundred individuals of restaurant langurs, the queen of Primate's. [00:09:44] If he follows our guidance, he will have the opportunity to see them in the wild. And the other monkeys. Yeah, red langurs, early feeding monkeys. They are so beautiful that they were considered the queen of primates. [00:10:10] So there are more than seven hundred kinds of primates around the world, rushing to the Langurs as they are the most beautiful ones. And therefore it's called the Queen. The Primate. And another name can sound funny, which is the pop monkey. [00:10:35] The five color four refers to the pop's coat, or we have named them the Soldier Monkey because their front head looks like those soldiers hat. Yeah. Kerry Newsome [00:11:00] Interesting. [00:11:01] Yes. Yes, absolutely. So tell us, some of the things a visitor should know before they go into that area like so that they are respectful of the reserve. Thanh: [00:11:18] Uh, first of all, if they want to do a trip on their own, a motorbike is a good option because if they drive around in a day, 90 km can take them a few hours already. Right. And imagine if they walk 90 kilometres, it will take forever. The good motorbike should be equipped with a good brake and gear. Do not forget to fuel the tank or check your tires, because once you go up there, you won’t see a petrol station or a mechanic shop. I myself once had to push the bike for several kilometres. Yeah, it wasn't so warm. And so they should, they should choose the proper outfits. Green or dark colours are really good because they make the large animals less afraid of strangers. Walking shoes, sandals, sneakers are much better than flip flops or high heels. Come on, you don't want to take selfie pictures there because it doesn't matter how much effort you put in. [00:13:05] The nature is just beautiful, breathtaking, and you feel speechless. So if you try to spend time or taking selfie pictures. I highly recommend you to take pictures of the magnificent flora and fauna species which you should learn about before going so. Kerry Newsome : [00:13:45] So let me jump in here. So do you suggest. The person go to the education center first, yeah, and then go to the reserves, so they go in with better understanding of what to look for in the flora and fauna. Thanh: [00:14:03] Mhm. Yeah. Because my centre does organize several excursions upon requests, but we are busy doing researches and arranging meaningful activities for the society. [00:14:24] So some people may not know about us before coming and they won't be able to join our trips so they can go to the center, gain the better understanding and then explore on their own. [00:14:46] We will always give them several survival tips like;- do not feed the life of animals, do not stare at the macaques or some kind of safety instruction, you know, not driving fast and furious. You are not in the movie. You want to come back home in one piece. You know, this is an alarm. [00:15:22] So you have to put your hands on the gears firmly and stay focused. I mean, we really hope that the visitors will spread information about the peninsula more and more people. So, you know, one person can teach others. Kerry Newsome : I get it. So are the monkeys friendly? [00:16:02] Or do you need to be careful around the monkeys? Thanh: [00:16:07] So in southern China, there are several other kinds of parks and recreation, duck, langurs, plush vegetation. So they are nice and kind. They are usually camera shy. So when we see them, we should keep a distance so that they won't run away from us. [00:16:40] We want to take great pictures of their shining coat, the adorable families or their interesting daily life activities. They will be cautious. The fathers make some noises to his family, like, oh, some strangers around, everybody watch out. [00:17:13] But as long as we hold our camera or take pictures with our phones and we don't show any harmful gestures, then we are OK. They can give us several minutes and they leave or some will like us and stay with us for a while by the time we are safe with our friend. OK, Langurs. The attacks, on the other hand, should get some of your attention. Macaques are very smart, but you can think about them as the witches. They like to take your belongings, they wait for your food or they want to scare you. They can scare you to death? Yeah. There are two kinds of macaques, the wild ones and the ones which used to be pets. So the wild ones are really protective. They see you coming and they will make the loud, alarming sound and she will want up play along. They think you are ready to fight back and they call the other members of the flocks and come and start the fight. Or if they see you pulling something out of your pocket, they think that, aha, you are prepared and they like to take your belongings first. You know, like now you are not armed and you cannot cause any harm to them. The second kind which used to be pets, they would be the pain in your neck because they lose the ability to find food on their own. They would rather gather along the main road, especially the parts in front of Intercontinental Hotel. They make the drivers sit on a lot of nerve. The drivers do not want to hit and run away. Right. But it can be unavoidable in certain circumstances. And can you believe you lock the car, you lock your bike and you stand on the pavement, take pictures of flowers and the landscape. And when you come back, they sit on your bikes or under your car looking at you like trick or treat, you know, like give me food or I'm not gonna leave! Kerry Newsome : [00:20:45] How do they attack you? Are they vicious? [00:20:51] Yeah, especially if they see you carrying some food and not willing to give them in their country. And also in India, China, Thailand, Macacs have cost tremendous problems. Everybody love the cute babies and they think, oh, I just want to do him a favour. I cannot resist this cuteness and people have changed their natural instinctive behaviors. Instead of trying to find the food and feeding themselves in the life they have become “sport pets”. You know, in the life market, a baby monkey is asking for one thousand five hundred US dollar, but the owner only wants to keep him for a few months or maybe a year or two later on. The baby monkey grows up and loses the cuteness. He will start to expose the wild characteristics, you know, cranky, fighting or wrecking family. You don't want to have something sitting in your house, right? So the owners will take them back to the forest and say, off you go, let them go. [00:22:44] That time, you know, they have no skill and they have no skills needed to survive. And it is crazy. [00:22:57] But for a tourist, I'm thinking, gee, I'm not sure where I would feel comfortable going there knowing that as you call them, the MACKA could possibly attack me or put me in a position that I was frightened. Kerry Newsome : [00:23:21] So how do you protect yourself from that? Thanh: [00:23:24] Oh, honestly, I would give people advices regarding on which time frame would work. [00:23:38] For example, tell us that if you want to go to Lady Buddha or Intercontinental Hotel and the adjacent areas, you should definitely avoid the late afternoon show from three pm. The local people would love to visit the mansion places because the breeze, the sun, everything is just perfect. And the local people have been blinded by their emotion. They do not care about the warning signs. They carry the food and they even make fun of the macaques. So from three p.m. and onwards, you see my car sitting on the road fighting for food and local visitors are laughing ridiculously. [00:24:46] And I would recommend visitors, foreign visitors to check out those places earlier in the day. And of course, I will be willing to share with you the few map roads you can drive up there and see the last known part of the peninsula where you will be able to see the wild macaques. But keep in mind, there are safety instruction because it's not pleasant being bothered by many shouting noise, you know? [00:25:32] Oh, I'm taking picture…. of why are you trying to make me go away. Please understand that we are intruders. We invade their privacy. [00:25:47] But yes, if they get mad at us, we should feel like it's a part of the experience. Kerry Newsome : [00:25:58] Yes, I know I have been to Son Tra a couple of times, but more to the area where they are developing some small areas where resorts and beautiful beaches and things. And I've also been to the top of the hill, which has got an amazing view of the city and the coastline. But I had been warned about the monkeys in the in the forest. And when I went to visit Lady Buddha, my friend who took me on a motorbike, she said, we go early, very early in the morning so that we will avoid most of the harassment of the monkeys that you mention. And we still get the sunrise so that we can capture the beautiful photography, which we did. And it was an amazing experience for me. I just loved it. But it's good to know from you just a little bit more about the aspect of it being a nature reserve that we need to protect. We need to protect the plant species and the animal species that is their home. It is what is their land, their space and their part of the planet. So, as you say, we are the intruder. So we need to be aware of this. And something I want for the people listening is to still have a look at the options available to visit this area, get a better understanding from your education centre. [00:27:47] I'm going to put all the links in the episode notes that people can jump on and find out more information and then people can use that as a bit of a guide. I want people to go there with some having done some research into this area because it's still worth going. But go into it with your eyes wide open and with some knowledge to make the visit pleasant as possible. Keeping in mind that there is some elements that may not be always easy to manage. Which you have really done well to explain to us that, you know, being mindful of food and the precarious nature of some of these monkeys is not always they tease you and they screech and they can be a menace to you in your experience. The red necked monkeys, they are a little bit different in their nature. And we need to be respectful of that. As you say, talking about taking selfies. Yeah, we want to try to minimize the selfies and take more of the flora and fauna and the area as such and hopefully some beautiful vistas and views. Kerry Newsome :[00:29:19] Just to finish up. [00:29:22] I want to just cover off if we can, what a visitor or a person that has an interest in this area in biodiversity and would like to support Green, what can they do to help support this, your organization. Thanh: [00:29:45] Kerry, that is so nice of you. Of course, my NGO needs a lot of that. And as I mentioned earlier, being a non-profit organization is not easy. So the founders of the NGO have always done our consulting work or extra words so that they can sustain the NGO and do the good things for the peninsular and the local people. We need to protect the primates, including the Clangers and the macaques, because they are considered our ancestors. Let's say the restaurant at languorously they share 98 percent of 80 and similar to with human and the premise they have family structures, they have the similar eyes to us. We caught monocular eyes that can observe different colors and they are really smart. Thanks to the big brains. They take care of each other. They use tools. I mean, there's so much for us to learn from them. They play another role in pollination. Or can you believe that a kidney of Russia's mopac, one species in southern China can be extracted for a few hundred kinds of vaccines that save people's life? So we need to protect them because if they are gone, they are gone forever. [00:31:54] And it's really sad that in the past my country suffered poverty and hunger. People would eat everything. Nowadays, the situation is not the same. But people are using wild animal products, including primates, medicines and makeup, whatever you can name into my NGO founders think that is unfair for the environment. Why the animals have to suffer. They have the right to live their life as we do so they have to try enormously to code for the participation of local people and foreigners. So we need to protect the peninsula. We don't want hotels and resort to be built there because where the sewage will go, how the trash will be handled and if someone is capable of. Controlling the place, we won't be able to go there without paying a fee, you should relate to Ba Na Hills Hills like once upon a time you could go to the nature reserve there. But nowadays you have to pay for the US dollar for a cable car ticket. And it is compulsory. We want to save the place for everybody for this generation and the future to come. [00:33:55] So the most important message would be as individuals or groups, please. Stop taking the peninsula for granted. Primates are not our pets, not our meals or medication. For example, we always need volunteers to help us with giving lectures in English lessons for all ages and our translating documents. Or you can make donations so that you can join us in this long and tiring journey. Kerry Newsome : [00:34:54] Ok, I. I know you have a busy day ahead of you, so we will finish up now. [00:35:01] I just want to say thank you very much. I will put the links to the education centre in the episode notes. And of course, we will share this, so one person or another person will share with another person, hopefully. I hope that you have been able to learn a little bit more about this area, as I have. And I think going into it with your eyes wide open is the best way to do it so that you can have a very pleasant experience of this beautiful area. Thanks, Thanh. Thanh: [00:35:39] Oh, it is my honor. And I really hope that I will be able to welcome you. Together, we can make the place become better and well protected. Kerry Newsome : [00:36:04] Thanks, Thanh

1319efd4-ae5f-4518-ac06-e7d25b28d9e3Fun Hanoi foodie adventure to blow your mind What About Vietnam - Series 3 - 8 A fun foodie adventure in Hanoi that will blow your mind [00:00:36] Kerry Newsome: Xin chào . Welcome to What About Vietnam . Today, we're going to take a real fun adventure in Hanoi. We're going to be experiencing something with a lady named Fleur Sharpe. It's a foodie episode believe it or not. It's a crazy, crazy fun story. I couldn't let it go. I couldn't let Fleur go without telling this story because I think what it did for me originally was just open up my mind, and I'm hoping yours, too, just about the things that you will do on a holiday that is a little bit left-field, a little bit adventurous, risky, a little bit dangerous because it just all adds to the momentum of your trip, your storytelling. You're walking away, going, "Wow. That was crazy, but it was fun. It was just heaps of fun. Fleur is no stranger to food. She runs her own online programs, where she specializes in courses in recipes and learning how to use the Thermomix. If you would like to know more about those, you can reach out to her on the episode notes links as I'll have everything there for you to access her directly and book those courses. Today's episode, as I said, is a crazy adventure with a very fun lady as she shares with us just what happened one lunchtime in Hanoi with her husband when they took on a very, very adventurous food journey. Please welcome Fleur to the program. [music] Fleur, welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Great to have you on. [00:02:34] Fleur Sharpe: Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited to tell you about my adventure. [00:02:38] Kerry Newsome: [chuckles] Well, it's funny. Adventures can come in all forms. I have to say the adventure that you spoke about when we last chatted just blew me away. I'm going to let you tell my listeners what your adventure entailed. Maybe that's not the right word I should be using. In Hanoi, you decided to take up quite a gastronomic adventure I would call it. Let’s hear all about it. [00:03:14] Fleur Sharpe: Oh, well, it was an adventure. That was for sure. I was even a bit nervous as a pretty hardcore foodie, and I pretty much say yes to everything. When my husband first floated this idea of going to this snake restaurant just a little way out of Hanoi, I was a bit like, "Oh." It's one of those things that sounds great in theory, but when you're actually confronted with doing it, it took me back. I was like, "When am I ever, when am I ever in my life going to be back here and be able to go to a snake restaurant." I just went, "Look. Let’s just do it." I steal myself with a bottle of French champagne. I got it on the way. I just was like, "Let this crazy thing roll." It wasn't planned as part of our trip. In fact, the whole trip wasn't particularly well planned. It was a bit of a last-minute thing. We're in Hanoi. [00:04:05] Kerry Newsome: When was it? [00:04:08] Fleur Sharpe: It was actually three years ago this week. Not the best time to be there. It was hellishly hot like, "Oh my God." Coming from Queensland, I'm used to the heat, but this is a whole other level of heat and humidity. You just suck the life out of you. What do we do? We're wandering around. I don't know. What's that lake in the middle of Hanoi in the old-- in the center there? [00:04:31 Kerry Newsome: The Hoan Kiem Lake. [00:04:33] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, we're having, That's it. Well, we're having one of those beautiful egg coffees. Then, David said, "I've just been doing some research and found this restaurant that I think Anthony Bourdain had mentioned in one of his adventures too. I think it was the same trip that he met up with Barack Obama in Hanoi, and they had that famous dinner." Anyway, so he recommended it. I went, "Oh, okay. I'm sold. Let’s go." Off we go, it's about 5 km. It's called The Hung Snake Restaurant. It's about 5 km outside of the Old Quarter. Off we trot, I don't think we had a booking at all. I think we just knocked on the door. It was about midday. [00:05:19] Kerry Newsome: You went midday? [00:05:21] Fleur Sharpe: Midday, yes. [00:05:22] Kerry Newsome: With the champagne? [00:05:24] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, with a bottle of champagne under my arm. They obviously weren't expecting us or anybody to be honest because we had to wake them up. They were all lying on the floor because it was so hot under the fence. [laughter] We had to wake them up. It was so funny. Then, in a heartbeat, they were like, "Come in. Welcome." Basically, the premise is that you choose your snake. You choose a snake, and you pay for the whole snake. I think you can pay by the kilo, but we were in for a penny, in for a pound. Let’s buy the whole snake. We chose a cobra for no other reason than I think it was the most expensive and the fattest. [chuckles] [00:06:06] Kerry Newsome: Isn't there some story that goes with the cobra? I heard that it had extra ??? value] or something about it. It's like the king kong of snakes. [00:06:17] Fleur Sharpe: Oh yes. The cobra comes with its own marketing message, 100%. I'll tell you more about that. We choose our poor cobra, who has been caught in the wild. These people that have been doing it, they're fourth-generation snake catchers in the wild. The owner who was actually the son of the owner was the fourth generation. His name was Dragon. Not sure whether that was his stage name or his actual name, but it was Dragon. He talked us through it. We chose our cobra and then obviously the cobra had to meet its maker. To distract us while that happened, they did a bit of a snake show. I know you're not a fan of snakes. [00:07:00] Kerry Newsome: No, definitely not. [00:07:00] Fleur Sharpe: This would have completely freaked you out. They get the snake out, and they do this snake magic kind of thing. It was fun and terrifying at the same time. [00:07:12] Kerry Newsome: I hope by now you're having the champagne. [00:07:15] Fleur Sharpe: Oh yes. [laughter] [00:07:20] Kerry Newsome: I was going to say you have to have a few champagnes by the stage just to take that show in! [00:07:27] Fleur Sharpe: Then, they sit us down, and the show begins. Dragon presents every course to us. It was basically a 12-course degustation of cobra. Now, I love food. I'm a pretty adventurous bit of a foodie, studying gastronomy. I've had some really great meals in my life around the world. I think there's a reason why cobra hasn't taken off as a gastronomic thing because [laughter] I read the reviews on TripAdvisor. Everyone's going, "Oh. This is a great restaurant. This is fantastic." I'm like, "I don't remember a single flavor with the exception of two." [chuckles] A lot of it was deep-fried, but you've got to go. Don't let me put you off. You have got to go. They come out the first thing they do is that they give you-- Well because I was with my husband, they gave it to him. It was the still-beating heart of the cobra in a shot of vodka. He had to down it. The thing was if you drink it while it's still beating, it gives you longevity. [00:08:31] Kerry Newsome: Long life and-- Yes. [00:08:32] Fleur Sharpe: You're bulletproof. Yes. Then, there's another shot of vodka with this bright-green-like, nuclear green liquid in it, which is the bile, which was for me. [laughs] I've got a slick. [00:08:47] Kerry Newsome: Did you hold your nose or— [00:08:49] Fleur Sharpe: I didn't. I was just like, "Oh, anyway." I was just like, "Okay, it's a shot of vodka. Down it goes." it was like [00:08:56] mild. It was pretty bitter. It wasn't pleasant, but that was my fit. It was pretty much all downhill after that. Oh, with the exception of one thing my husband got because there was only one. He got to eat the penis. There was this whole story. [00:09:09] Kerry Newsome: Oh, lucky him! [00:09:12] Fleur Sharpe: There was this whole story around what eating a cobra's penis will do for a man. Hung, the owner, was totally into it, totally believed his own PR. We bought into it, too, to be honest. We ate that. Then, it proceeded with dish after dish after dish of different parts of this poor cobra, which we had no hope of eating in its entirety. In fact, I think Hung's family ate very well for the next week of the leftovers. [laughter] [00:09:45] Kerry Newsome: But do you add salt and pepper or has it got herbs and spices? [00:09:50] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, there was one that was very much like Kentucky fried cobra. It was off the bone. It was the backbone and was all kind of spicy, crunchy, and all that stuff. Then, there was one that was like spring rolls and one that was in a salad. Yes. Then, it was a blur, to be honest. [laughs] [00:10:08] Kerry Newsome: Oh God. [00:10:11] Fleur Sharpe: It was pretty funny. Then, the champagne ran out. They bought out a bottle of Vietnamese vodka. There's a reason why [00:10:20] it's 4.50 a bottle. It’s pretty rough. [00:10:22] Kerry Newsome: Pretty rough. [00:10:24] Fleur Sharpe: After what we'd been through it, it was like-- whatever. It was certainly an experience. Then, they took us down to where they keep all the snakes, the snake boxes, which would have completely freaked you out. We went down. We got down this-- how they do in Vietnam, those tiny, rickety wooden staircases that go around and around and around. It was like going into the bowels of hell. Then, we went down. We went out to the garden, where there were all these boxes, wooden boxes full of snakes. They explained to us that when they go out into the long grasses, that to find snakes that's where they bring them back to. That was when Dragon's father arrived. I think his name was actually Hung, the hung. [00:11:13] Kerry Newsome: [laughs] [00:11:14] Fleur Sharpe: He was the original Hung. [00:11:16] Kerry Newsome: Do you reckon he ate a lot of penises to be called Hung or…. [00:11:22] Fleur Sharpe: Oh my God. [00:11:23] Kerry Newsome: Is there any correlation? [00:11:24] Fleur Sharpe: How did I miss that? Of course. [00:11:28] Kerry Newsome: I don't know where I went to with that, but I just thought "Hung" and "penis" were like-- Oh my God. [00:11:31] Fleur Sharpe: It's so funny. Well, I think Hung has been doing it for so long. He only had three and a half fingers left. He literally had virtually no fingers left, this old man. Well, he looked like an old man. I said to David, "Look. He's probably 45, but he looked 85." [00:11:52] Kerry Newsome: Did he have 25 children or something because of all these meals?? [00:11:54] Fleur Sharpe: Nearly. Yes, huge families. Yes. [00:11:59] Kerry Newsome: He's worn out obviously. [00:12:00] Fleur Sharpe: Clearly. Yes, clearly. [00:12:05] Kerry Newsome: Did they speak at all about the poisonous side of things or Did that ever come up? [00:12:10] Fleur Sharpe: Well, no. They said that they were removed. The way that they kill it means that that doesn't go through any of the flesh, so it's done pretty well. From what I understand, no one's died yet. [00:12:31] Kerry Newsome: Talk to us a little bit, Fleur, about-- you went at lunchtime so was this like 12, 1 o'clock? Then, how long did you actually spend out there? [00:12:43] Fleur Sharpe: We went about midday from memory. Two of the courses take some time. We were still there. Come late afternoon, early evening, and a lovely American couple came from Texas. We pulled up a chair with them. They didn't do the full 12 courses, so we ended up meeting some really lovely tourists. We shared a cab back into Hanoi with them, which was lots of fun. We shared the bottle of vodka with them. We were there pretty much the whole afternoon. It was the most incredible experience I remember telling you about. I still glow about it. Even though it wasn't a real foodie, foodie experience, it was a fantastic all-round adventure. [00:13:31] Kerry Newsome: You're right in saying that. First, I would put it down to maybe a dare that as a backpacker or something and a whole heap of guys and girls, etc. might go and do. When I spoke to you and because you're a sophisticated lady, you're well educated in food and all this type of thing, that's why I was fascinated. I was thinking, "My God. She was game enough to do it." I definitely couldn't go there just because I can't stand reptiles. I certainly can't stand snakes. The fact that it is an experience you can have in Vietnam, I really wanted to have you on the show to share that with people to say, "Look. You can go as wild as you like. You can be as adventurous as you like. I've got proof. I'm talking to this lady. It's 2021. She survived it. [laughs] She's here to tell the tale, and she had a fun time." You've walked away with saying it was a great experience. Was it expensive? [00:14:35] Fleur Sharpe: Well, the way we did it, which is buying the whole thing. [00:14:37] Kerry Newsome: Well, you started with the French champagne. It kicked off with a good start. [00:14:40] Fleur Sharpe: [laughs] Yes, that was. It's the cobra was about-- I think you pay by the kilo. I think we paid about 250 USD for it. [00:14:52] Kerry Newsome: Wow. [00:14:52] Fleur Sharpe: But that could have easily fed six to eight people with that. We didn't need to do it that way. The other couple that came in were just ordering a few dishes. You weren't killing a whole snake just to feed them. You don't have to do it that way. I'd say if you're adventurous, and you want a good story to tell and good pictures to take home and add to your photo book, it’s certainly a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Yes, I'd highly, highly recommend it. [00:15:22] Kerry Newsome: You'd highly recommend it. Well, that's good to know. I think because we talk about going to Vietnam, some people get a little bit concerned about some of the species of animals [laughter] that can get dished up. Would you agree with me? You've got to go with an open mind, haven't you? [00:15:44] Fleur Sharpe: Everywhere you go over the world. I don't think you've got any business traveling if you're not up for experiencing and saying yes to things. Not taking stupid risks, but come on, don't go to Paris and order a burger. Don't go to Vietnam and expect to eat hotel food all the time. Get out there and try something new. Push your boundaries. That's a whole point of travel for me I think. [00:16:14] Kerry Newsome: Certainly, a cobra at 250 USD. That's a fairly big swag of money for a Vietnamese, yes, in Vietnamese terms. As you say, he is lucky that his virility could afford his wallet because [laughs] if he's got all those kids and that big family, he would need 250 USD, I guess, to spend it. What was the ambiance of the place? Talk to us a little bit. Was it terrible? [00:16:46] Fleur Sharpe: Terrible. [00:16:47] Kerry Newsome: Ow. It was really basic, was it? [00:16:49] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, it was like plastic chairs, but that's like how it is there, everywhere. [00:16:52] Kerry Newsome: That's perfect. [00:16:53] Fleur Sharpe: All I really cared about is it was air-conditioned because, stupidly, we went in July. It was air-conditioned. [00:17:00] Kerry Newsome: And it was the middle of the day. [00:17:01] Fleur Sharpe: Yes. There was an enormous stuffed snake, that was the decorator, that hung over us. I don't know what sort of snake it was, but it was ginormous. It was stuffed, and it was there. That was kind of a backdrop of it. You were immersed in a snake nirvana. [laughs] [00:17:22] Kerry Newsome: Yes, nirvana. Did you have any concerns about health and hygiene because this is another aspect that people come to me about? How did you feel about that? [00:17:36] Fleur Sharpe: I get that from a food point of view like food safety and all that, that's what I really find fascinating. Having worked in food safety here in Australia and the enormously precautious approach you have to take to food safety here. Yet over there, there is literally meat out on the street in the middle of the day in the heat. Food poisoning is actually pretty rare. I think you've got to be pretty smart about it. At the same time, it wasn't really something that I thought about too much because there are other ways of making sure that foods are properly prepared and stuff. That's probably why they deep fry a lot. They also use a lot of salt for preserving. That all helps. I think I wouldn't go, and I guess this is the point of why we're doing this today is giving a recommendation. If we hadn't read the reviews, and we hadn't seen that it had been a good experience for people, then we may not have gone. Do your research, but I think this experience, in particular, is not really for people that are overly precautious. At some point, you've just got to be all in and take a risk in order to have a great experience. I think that is also true of Vietnam [laughs] as a country. It's not a place for somebody that wants everything in its little box, yes, everything is predictable and planned out. It's probably not the country for you. Do you need that? [00:19:12] Kerry Newsome: No. I'm really glad you mentioned that because I think you do have to be realistic. People have come to me concerned about the health and hygiene of food because as you say, you'll go to the markets and there'll be fresh meat and fish and that out on tables. Once you dig in a little bit deeper and actually did another podcast with a chef in Vietnam, and she was saying, "But they do two kills a day." That meat that's out there early in the morning is actually all sold in about two hours, three hours tops. It's as fresh as you can get. Sure it's not refrigerated, but it's not there for very long before the restaurant, all the locals, etc. picked it up. I think the way they cook it and because of the deep frying and the high temperatures, you have got that, as you say, as a safety precaution You're right, if you've got a stomach that is a little bit delicate or some smells or as you say, rickety chairs and cobras stuffed on walls, and all of that's going to upset you, yes, don't go to a snake restaurant. I'm glad you mentioned the TripAdvisor and all the rest of it because I've used the podcast or what I'm doing with the podcast as almost your live trip advisor. People come on to share their experiences. We're in the middle of COVID. Hopefully, we're just coming out of COVID. Cross fingers. I'm really loving talking to people about their experiences of Vietnam. When people do a trip plan, if they want to do something adventurous, they can find you and this episode and go, "Hey, she came out of it with a smile on her face. She sounded like she had a great time." I think that's the whole gist of it for me. [00:21:16] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, I think so. I think that there comes a point. If you continue to keep looking, you can over research something. If it sounds like a good idea, and there are people out there that have corroborated that idea and go, "Yes, it's a good idea," then go with it. I think some people can have depth by research, and they talk themselves out of it at some point just go, "Yes. Let’s give this a go." [00:21:42] Kerry Newsome: Look. It's been great to have you on the show, Fleur. There's no way I would be sharing this experience with anybody. I won't be taking the recommendation, but more because I can't stand snakes, period, let alone eating them. I just want to make sure your husband and you are well and everybody at home is—well! [00:22:08] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, he's still alive. To give you some context, he ran a marathon. He ran 42 kilometers a couple of weeks ago. Maybe it was the snake. Maybe it was the penis. Who knew? But he's very, very well. [00:22:23] Kerry Newsome: Ow, that's fantastic. Fleur, just again, thanks for being on the show. [00:22:27] Fleur Sharpe: Pleasure. [00:22:29] Jingle: Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What About Vietnam. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam.

14e1533c-3922-4356-b2d5-5f8c211cf3bbLanguage tips in Vietnam week 1 - "greetings" Learn "greetings" in Vietnamese Episode 19 S3-19 Learn "Greetings" 00:00 / 17:18 You have just arrived into Vietnam and you’d like to know a few words in the form of greetings, to help pave the way. You are in the right place. English is widely spoken in the main cities, but in the North and in the more remote regions, not so much. It is always nice to have some greetings down pat to help break the ice and come across polite and courteous to those you meet. Vietnamese rate courteous behaviour highly and you will win them over very quickly simply by trying. This episode is 1 of a 3 part mini-series I am running over the next 3 weeks;- Week 1. What About Vietnam – S3-19 – Learn “greetings” in Vietnamese Each week will be a new episode focusing on a particular setting or scenario. Its lots of fun as I am the guinea pig. My Expert Guest joining me in the mini series is Ha Dam. Ha is Vietnamese and well versed as an English-Vietnamese translator. I caught up with her in France where she now lives with her partner and is currently an English to Vietnamese translator for a UK company helping immigrants settle into their new country. A few years ago she did this Video which is why I thought she would be great to have on the show. You can see her by clicking on the YouTube video to the right - Vietnamese 101. My thanks to www.hoiannow.com for helping me track her down. PLEASE NOTE: This not a training or educational language lesson, it is purely for fun and pronunciation and conversational purposes. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

17f693a3-e0d3-48a7-bc50-3b3790001b10Vietnam from a cultural and historical standpoint. Vietnam Culture and Visas Episode 6 S1-06 Culture and Visas 00:00 / 16:29 In this episode, I’d like to give you some general background to the country you will be visiting, from a cultural and historical standpoint. What to expect when you arrive! For most of us, it resembles - organised chaos! Heat, smells and officialdom. Cities where there are more bikes than cars. What is the Visa process amid Covid19, and what are the things you need to watch out for? Do you need a Visa? Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S5-E8 – Empowering the Traveller to fight Human Trafficking S5-E8 – Empowering the Traveller to fight Human Trafficking Episode 8 S5-E8 – Empowering the Traveller to fight Human Trafficking 00:00 / 38:19 Join us for an insightful journey into the pressing issue of human trafficking in Vietnam, and discover how, as a traveller, you have the ability to effect real change. In this episode, I'm joined by Kim Miller, who offers firsthand insights into the challenges and the remarkable efforts undertaken by "Blue Dragon" (see link below), an organization dedicated to combatting human trafficking. As a listener, you'll gain a profound understanding of the poverty and vulnerabilities that fuel human trafficking, along with practical guidance on recognizing and responding to situations where individuals are exploited or in need of assistance. We start off by talking about Kim’s experiences of Vietnam since 2016—Kim shares her deep affection for Vietnam, recounting her experiences living there and highlighting her favorite Vietnamese cuisines like "Phở chiên phồng" (see link below) and destinations you may not have heard about just outside of Hanoi called – "Ho Dong Do lake district" (see link below). Kim shares her bold ambition of raising $200,000 by swimming the English Channel this July to support "Blue Dragon's vital community initiatives". (See link below). Tune in as she outlines actionable steps travellers can take to aid vulnerable individuals they encounter. From simply reaching out or alerting organizations like Blue Dragon, travellers can ensure prompt assistance for those in need, empowering them to play an active role in combating human trafficking. This is an episode that I'm confident will offer you valuable insights and takeaways. Finally, you are one click away from supporting "Kim's cause" (see link below), please check the link here and let’s unite in making a positive impact during our journeys through Vietnam. To date, Blue Dragon has: Rescued 1,431 people from trafficking Represented 261 people in court cases Sent 6,314 kids back to school & training Provided shelter to 1,668 girls & boys Placed 445 teens in jobs Served 672,359 meals Built 262 homes for families Reunited 769 runaways with their families Obtained legal papers for 13,544 people Blue Dragon https://www.bluedragon.org/ "Phở chiên phồng" https://deliciousvietnam.net/crispy-rice-flour-puffs-stir-fried-beef-pho-chien-phong/ "Ho Dong Do lake district" https://vietnam-destinations.com/en/destination/ho-dong-do-ha-noi/ "Blue Dragon's vital community initiatives" https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=3WAmPI-ptISS4uua&v=nl0hJfRc_R0&feature=youtu.be "Kim's cause" https://au-give.bluedragon.org/fundraisers/kims-big-blue-english-channel-swim Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S5-E2 Choosing Hoi An as a Digital Nomad Destination S5-E2 Choosing Hoi An as a Digital Nomad Destination Episode 2 S5-E2 Choosing Hoi An as a Digital Nomad Destination 00:00 / 1:00:24 I’m thrilled to have such an engaging conversation with our guest today about the digital nomad lifestyle. Whether you're a seasoned nomad or just curious about this exciting way of life, this episode is a must-listen! I am fortunate to be joined with Florian Rucker who inspires nomads by providing a unique, friendly, and well fit out co working space in Hoi An called The Hub, to perform this kind of work. If you can imagine having high speed internet, in a glass workspace, in the middle of rice paddy fields, you have it right there! We get down to “tin tacks” as we talk through the evolving landscape of digital nomading and the transformation since Covid. No longer is it just for the youthful adventure seekers, employers are now funding some people to work this way, as they now recognise working remotely doesn’t have to impact output given the right set up. Hoi An and the The Hub provide workers a unique experience in Vietnam and now that the E-Visa stays are being extended to 90 days this looks like being a very viable option for more people. Flo is uniquely qualified to speak to this topic having lived abroad since he was 16. Originally a Berliner, he has a Cambridge education, and has lived in 7 other countries throughout his life. With a background in Development Aid and a IT Agency owner he fell in love with Hoi An after being a customer of the The Hub back in 2017. He bought the space in early 2021 and rebuilt it nearby, in the middle of the rice fields in ‘22/’23. If you would like to know about The Hub – You can contact Flo here – Website: https://www.hubhoian.com/ The Hub social links: 
https://www.instagram.com/hubhoian/ https://www.facebook.com/hubhoian Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here