S4-02 Fine Dining Vietnam What About Vietnam S4-2 Fine Dining in Vietnam Kerry Newsome: 00:18 Xin Chào and welcome to "What about Vietnam!" When you think about Vietnamese cuisine, I'm not sure whether you do the same thing as I do. But the first thing I think about is bánh mì, my absolute favorite snack food. I think about Vietnamese phở and I'm thinking about all those beautiful, fresh aspects of Vietnamese cuisine because they're fruit, vegetables, seafood, etc., is just so fresh. It's straight from the farm to the table. And the flavors are definitely rich. I think it's those flavors and the variance there is available for chefs coming to Vietnam or developing their skills and their training in Vietnam that is really springing forth some “fine dining” experiences that are worth talking about. 01:34 And worth talking about with my guest, Raj Taneja. Raj has a very deep level of understanding of fine dining, as he's very heavily involved with La Chaîne. He’s going to tell you more about that involvement, and really where that fits in developing the Fine Dining industry within Vietnam. We're going to meet some chefs. He's done a fabulous job in being able to step inside some of these restaurants to have a quick word with some of the chefs that are really changing the landscape of what the “Fine Dining” experience can be for us in Vietnam now. So, we really get inside their heads. 02:21 I'm hoping that's going to make it a richer experience for you, when you go and visit some of these restaurants. I know certainly, I'm going to check them out. So, stay tuned for the episode. It's a real different mix this time because we do have some interviews, so you'll have to be a little bit forgiving of some of the noise which really belongs to Vietnam, it's a bit of a noisy country. So, it's really hard to clip those out. Raj has got some great insights for us to better understand the growth of fine dining in Vietnam and what we've got to look forward to at those tables. Please welcome Raj to the program. And please enjoy. So, Raj, maybe tell us a little bit about what you do and how fine dining with great chefs, hotels, sommeliers, is broadening the scope of food experiences in Vietnam. Raj Taneja: 03:26 Right. So, Kerry, my name is Raj Taneja, and I'm the president of an ancient culinary organization called La Chaîne des Rôtisseurs. We were founded in 1248. So that's 774 years ago, by King Louis IX, now known as St. Louis. He was an epicurean, a very special king in the era of the Crusades of France, and very well respected for his love of food. And also his straight pointed approach towards things like law and settling disputes. So, the way that I got involved with this organization was that I started as a chef when I was very young, at an Institute in my hometown, Calgary, Alberta, Canada. And I became aware of the chain at that point in time. 04:15 The organization itself was very difficult to join, so they actually have a limit on members. The organization is a group of people that enjoy or love fine dining. And the idea of this group is to both celebrate conviviality, so celebrate coming together on the table, but also to challenge and improve the world of fine dining and hospitality. So, here I am in Vietnam, looking around, and going where’s this great organization that promotes fine dining culture and is great with hospitality? I’d go to the host hotels and know everyone and that didn't exist here. 04:54 So, it was kind of odd to see that Vietnam, such a vibrant food country and such a rapidly advancing country didn't have this association. So, I put my hand up. And I thought it would be easy. I thought I'd come to Vietnam, and I would basically find my successor and make some friends and have some great dinners. Then be able to go on my way as sort of an advisor, what it's really become is my life's work. It's become a really hands-on thing. And I'm really grateful for being able to do this here. Kerry Newsome: 05:25 Okay, well, I imagine with that kind of challenge on your plate, so to speak, no pun intended, there would be a lot of opportunities for exploration and experience and meeting new people, trying new food, testing out different locations, all sorts of things. So, talk to us a little bit about just how you've gone about establishing this. And what are some of the experiences that you can share with us? Raj Taneja: 06:01 Right. So, look, I've been active in this market, would say I've been looking at this market or looking at Vietnam since 2014, hosting events or dinners almost monthly since 2016. We consider our dinners to be challenging dinners. So, when we go to a hotel, or we go to a restaurant, we say this is who we are as an association. Although most expats chefs and most expat hoteliers will know who we are, they understand that we carry a lot of weight. They understand that when we host an event, their peers are watching. So, their peers are actually evaluating whether or not they're doing a good job. And it can mean a lot for career advancement for people, if they do a great event with our association, we make sure that it gets to the right people. 06:50 We have been doing that type of work since very early on. And that's very similar to what you'll find in many other countries, whether you go to the US or to Germany or France or Italy. But really our work in Vietnam is a lot more. My job as the president means that I'm continuously in the air. I'm continuously trying all sorts of food throughout the country; I'm trying all sorts of hospitality. So, if there's a new hot five-star hotel being built out there, if there's a new restaurant that's opening, I try to get there. I try to interact with the chefs and the owners, as well as, the hoteliers in this country. Really, that's the first step of it. 07:31 Behind what we do, obviously the dinners are great, they produce great photographs, they produce great media and attention for this country. And because of that, certain groups are definitely looking at Vietnam to invest in this country, because they see us as a trusted organization within Vietnam. So, they can look at Vietnam through our lens and see how Vietnam is performing, whether positively or negatively based on the type of activity and the amount of activity we're getting. We also do things like, we work with young chefs, and we're actually trying to host international and national competitions. 08:10 The other thing that we try to do is we're trying to provide international food support and aid to those in need. So, we're working with groups like STREETS International and La Boulangerie Frances, two great groups. It's actually a unique opportunity, they take the impoverished people and try to break the chain of poverty. This country has a really beautiful set of indigenous people that really could use the help. And I think it's a great idea to be able to tap this fantastic resource of people and bring them out of what they're doing now into what could potentially be the world's greatest chefs in the future. So, it's a huge opportunity to take the indigenous and teach them some skills that will change the course of their lives and of course of their family's lives forever. 09:00 Finally, we're also working to develop training in the hospitality, food and beverage industries. What that means is by bringing an accredited organization, accredited school, not just vocational but something that carries weight. So, someone can go to school in hospitality, or someone can go to school in food and beverage and use those papers, use that certificate to work anywhere in the world that will then open a lot of doors for Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: 09:26 Okay, so if I am an international luxury traveler, and I'm aware of your organization, I possibly have attended some dinners in other places. How would I go about finding those restaurants or tracking those restaurants down? Do you have some particular favorites you'd like to share with us that we can warn everybody about including myself? Raj Taneja: 09:58 I'm certain that we're going to grab dinner at some point in time when I get back to Vietnam. So yeah, there are some favorite restaurants. It's unfortunate because of COVID, some people have packed it in, but others have persevered. So, the top of my mind is obviously T.U.N.G Dining. Tung is a very special chef. He's now been in Vietnam for three years. He comes from a fairly humble business family and had never wanted to or had been told not to go into the culinary arts. He found himself in Scandinavian countries, really falling in love with this and came back to Vietnam. 10:36 I believe it was something like 2017, he competed for the James Beard Foundation here in Vietnam solo against hotel teams that had five or six people and came in third place. That's when he sort of said, "Maybe I need to be here in Vietnam." I guess a few months later, he founded this company called Tung Dining. This is the first chef that has brought the biggest tasting menu to Vietnam. So, imagine going to a restaurant and they say, "Okay, this is the menu." And someone might say, "Well, I want this and this." And they say, "No, you get everything on this menu." People are really perplexed. He changed the food culture in this country and he's a maverick. Kerry Newsome: 11:17 Raj managed to catch up with the Chef at Tung Dining just very recently. So, let's just go to that interview now and then we'll be back to the main program. Raj Taneja: 11:33 How would you describe the food here at Tung Dining? Chef Tung: 11:36 I think, I really don’t do the fusion because it’s about a lot of different things from me, but I do a lot of modern cuisine, and contemporary cuisine. I don't want to make any borders for the food, like I feel the need to cook specific kinds of food such as French, Vietnamese or Western. My duty is to bring the best flavor, the best experience to the guests through the tasting menu. It can come from different corners of the world. Maybe I get inspiration from Nordic, get some very local hobo in Vietnam or something but for me, I'm a person who combines everything to make a slightly more memorable journey for the flavor. It's quite contemporary modern and for me I cannot specify what type of cuisine it is. I mean, it's quite International. Raj Taneja: 12:28 Well, now that we're recovering from COVID, have you thought of your cuisine? You thought about this restaurant, is there anything new you're bringing to the table? Tung Hoang: 12:37 The menu I'm thinking about coming up with is always questioning the local things. What does the Western world think about that? I put my foot on the balance so both the experts can enjoy it and most locals can enjoy it. It's quite an international flavor. And that is the way I want people to get used to. I don't go too extreme, you need to do a lot of fish sauce, and you need to do a lot of different kinds of local things. I don't go too much or borrow too much of everything. Because I'm Western chain, I use a lot of high Western techniques, but I also try to put some touches that can satisfy the Asian flavor. 13:22 That's the way I think and how I come up with the food here and COVID is just the right thing to do. Before COVID 60% of the Western, 40% of the local, something like that. And after COVID, locals still come to us because our flavor also can satisfy them. If the experts are not here, tourists are not here, but we still fight on the way around. It's a good test for us. Our concept is the right way to make both locals and foreigners enjoy it. Raj Taneja: 14:03 So, what is it that you would say is the ideal person that comes to this restaurant? Tung Hoang: 14:07 I mean, open minded people because I think for this cuisine, the most important thing is open minded. Because the cuisine is very diverse and the taste is also very personal. So, whenever you come to the testing menu, the beauty of that is that you try things that you never tasted before. You have the experience of some techniques. If you don't have an open mind, like you have already had a real-life stereotype, you shouldn't come. If you say phở need to be like phở or something like this needs to be like this. For me, it's not a tasting menu. For a tasting menu, you need to be open minded, the cuisine has no borders, and when you come to a restaurant it means you go inside and you test their work. To me it is the most important thing to be open minded. Raj Taneja: 15:01 Okay, final question. Where are you located and what's the best way to book? Tung Hoang: 15:06 My restaurant located in the 2C P. Quang Trung, Hàng Trống district in Hà Nội, and in Saigon we have another restaurant in the 31-33 DANG DUNG STREET TAN DINH WARD, DISTRICT 1. To book at the restaurant, we have the same booking system. You can book through our social media. Many people are booking through Facebook, Instagram or an email or even you can call directly to us to book. So after that we will send you the confirmation asking you about how many people, allergy, any notification or some special event. We will make sure you have a good reservation, and you can reach us through different channels. Now, we have the social media world so it's very easy to get connected with yourself. Raj Taneja: 16:11 He has two restaurants in this country now. We have one in the north, which is T.U.N.G Dining. And then we have one in the south which is "Å", it's actually "au" because it's the A with the circle on top, it's a Scandinavian letter by two. So, those are two restaurants you must absolutely try. The second one is beautiful, and they are both equally delicious to eat at. We also have a restaurant called Cugini, which is helmed by Chef Nico Ceccomoro. And Nico is an Italian chef who works from the heart. He is extremely skilled. I think he's probably one of the two top skilled Italian chefs that I know in this country that is really just balanced, smiling, lovely, and always positive and constructive. Just someone I have the ultimate amount of respect for, and his food is great. Kerry Newsome: 17:04 So, let's just jump very quickly with Raj again, as he was able to catch up with Nico, and Nico was talking to Raj in Hà Nội. And we're just going to have this little quick grab, which I know you're going to love. And then we'll get straight back to the main show. Raj Taneja: 17:27 I'm sitting here with Chef Nico who is the owner, partner, Chef, and mastermind behind the restaurant called Culina which is in Hà Nội. So, chef, please introduce yourself. Nico: 17:40 Hi, everybody. I'm Nico. I'm an Italian chef and I have lived in Hà Nội for over eight years. And we finally launched a new restaurant with a different concept where we are focusing on delivering a new kind of dining experience to guests. So, our cuisine is mostly focused on delivering worthwhile products with the best quality that we can find in the markets. And we match them a little bit with local spices and herbs, and with the vegetables that are actually beautiful in Vietnam. So that's thinking about something tropical like the fruits that we have, the super fresh herbs that we have here. 18:23 And so, the idea behind this is actually to be able to deliver some food that is suitable for most nationalities. We don't have any flags to expose ourselves as a particular restaurant that could be another one like my Italian restaurant, which is called Cugini. So, this one is more focused on developing taste that doesn't represent any nation whatsoever, but it's still very suitable for most people that can go there and enjoy it. Over that we are specializing ourselves on doing dry aging. This is not only about beef, but we also have a nice selection of game foods. So, ducks, pigeons and quails. Sometimes porks from three different countries, including Spain, Japan and Australia. And then we also are doing a new batch of seafood at the moment. So, we are searching for fresh seafood, such as tuna or Buenos or salmon. And these kinds of beautiful fishes and we dry age them to then serve to guests. Raj Taneja: 19:28 Have you had any experience during COVID time, and did it change your concept at all? Or were you always focused on this no flag dining? Nico: 19:37 Yes. Actually, COVID was very effective in not having much success because the restaurant would have been launched about a year ago now. So, it was a pretty long time ago. But unfortunately, we had these lock downs and whatever else coming through that didn't allow us to complete our mission. We changed a little bit and we tried to unify the concepts. It's still offering pretty nice and versatile grand options for our guests. But right now, besides continental breakfast, we also have a menu that's got larger choices for lunch than for dinner. Probably, you know we have a very nice open space with a view on the lake. The kitchen is right in front of guests where they can see exactly how the food is cooked for them. 20:28 And now we keep our equipment and the way that we treat our ingredients. So, I think this is a new thing in Hà Nội because they are still missing a little bit of contact between the back of ours and the guests that come into dine. That, I think, is one of the strong points that we have in our place. Raj Taneja: 20:53 Right. With the open kitchen and the ability for people to look into the kitchen. But not only that, see the smiling chef. And by the way, you have a very smiling chef back there. Nico: 21:01 Thank you, Raj. Raj Taneja: 21:02 Who is your ideal customer? Nico: 21:04 Well, ideal customers are whoever are happy to share time with each other and enjoy time together with a drink and some nice food. So, we do not target somebody in particular, we definitely are in Vietnam. So, I obviously would like to focus mostly on Vietnamese people, because I am welcomed in their country. So, in exchange, I like to give them a service that is missing. So, I think that's really important. But then we have Japanese customers, Koreans, and whatever, from Europe or somewhere else. So, it's actually multinational restaurants so far, which is pretty good. I think that's also because of where we are based. A lot of experts live in the area where we have the restaurant. So, it makes sense for them to be kind to our place. Raj Taneja: 21:57 In terms of your restaurant, what is it that makes you stand out? Or what differentiates you from other upscale dining in Vietnam or even in Hà Nội? Nico: 22:07 Well, I think there's a lot of beautiful places these days in Hà Nội, or in particular, in Vietnam. In my case, I think we are lucky to have a location where there's so many restaurants, but I wouldn't say most of them are actually pretty good. So, I think restaurant owners are still a bit confused on how to develop the business and some of them, maybe copy paste successful restaurants somewhere just because they want to become successful as well. 22:46 In our case, I think we have a lot of passion inside. We try to dedicate our thoughts and our philosophies on the food in a way to actually be understood and appreciated by the guests. Every time we do new concepts, we are trying to do market research, and give guests what is still missing and not what is already existing. So that, I would say, is one of the strong points that we have. Raj Taneja: 23:16 So, where's your restaurant located? Nico: 23:19 Karina is located in the Tu Hao area, or better called West Lake. And it is right in the street in front of the lake, very close to the Sheraton Hotel. Pretty easy to find us. Raj Taneja: 23:33 Perfect. Thank you very much, Chef. It was a great pleasure to interview today. And he's just opened up a new restaurant in Hà Nội called Culina, which is funnily enough, Australian modern bistro dining. So, it might be something of very big interest to you Kerry. Kerry Newsome: 23:54 Yeah, funny about that. I don't necessarily go to Vietnam to have this trade. Just note to self. Raj Taneja: 24:05 Well, let's see where that leads us. The other one, of course, the other Italian chef, that is very dear and close to my heart actually is in Da Nang. His restaurant is somewhat of a question mark right now, because it is temporarily closed because of the harsh closures in Da Nang. It's a restaurant called EL PECK and the chef's name is Alessio Rasom. So, Alessio has a very decorated past in culinary and is a really interesting guy. He never considered Vietnam and what happened is working, I believe it was at Mirazur in the south of France and working for the executive chef who was touring around the world. 24:47 He basically took a short trip to Machu Picchu in Peru and met this lovely lady, Miss Bing, at the base of Machu Picchu and fell in love with her. And then after their climb to the top of the mountain, somehow, she went back to Paris where she was working. He went back to Italy, where he was working with France. They continued to communicate, and then he decided to move to Paris. He was working in Paris, and at some point, in time, they both decided, "Well, let's go back to Vietnam." So, she convinced him to come back to Vietnam. They got on bikes and rode 18,000 kilometers over the course of two years, from Paris to Vietnam. 25:34 It's an extraordinary story. And he's an extraordinary chef. And he's extraordinarily skilled. He's the type of chef that wakes up in the morning at like four in the morning, goes out to the fishermen's boats and picks whatever's fresh, and that's on the menu for the day. So, the concept is, obviously, tourism has to be in full swing in order for his restaurant to be viable, but that's the concept. So really cool. Another chef that is really notable is a chef by the name of Joonhyuk Chi and currently, he's in Hà Nội. He has one restaurant called Labri. And they're about to open another restaurant. Chef Chi is a Korean chef that was trained in Osaka and did his stash in Tokyo. So Japanese trained Korean chef, doing an interpretation on French food in the north, really fantastic dining. Kerry Newsome: 26:27 We jump very quickly to the noisy stash in Tokyo. Once again, Raj has been able to catch up with Chef Chi. and I think you're going to be very interested to just hear his interview. So, let's just jump to that very quickly. And then we'll be right back to the main show. Raj Taneja: 26:52 Chef, please introduce yourself with your full name and your restaurant. Joon Chi: 26:57 My name is Joonhyuk Chi. I'm from Korea, and I'm the owner and chef of Labri Bistro. Raj Taneja: 27:06 Tell me what type of food you serve. And what's the dining experience here? Joon Chi: 27:12 Yeah. So, we are looking for the fine dining quality of food and wine. But the atmosphere and price are like a bistro concept more casual, like street, fine dining concept. I'm an Asian chef, so I wanted to put some Korean, Asian and Vietnamese things on my food. So, based on French techniques, our concept is oriented neo-bistro, which means the dining experience is the most important part of our restaurant, to dine and enjoy the bite and drink wine, it's a different story. Raj Taneja: 28:00 What makes you different from other fine dining in Vietnam? Joon Chi: 28:06 I don't want to be really serious about the food and fine dining culture. Because sometimes when you go to a fine dining restaurant, we are kind of nervous. And we want it to be posh but sometimes we really want to enjoy it, and be very comfortable. Raj Taneja: 28:30 So, it's about comfort and accessibility. Being able to have people that come to your restaurant and feel at ease. Joon Chi: 28:40 Yeah, just enjoying food and wine. Because Labri means shelter. So, escape. So, don't think about other things, just focus on the food and wine, and just enjoy. Raj Taneja: 28:54 It's been lovely talking to you. Thank you very much for this tidbit. This is a Kamsahmida. Joon Chi: 29:02 Kamsahamida. Raj Taneja: 29:10 If we go to the south, like I said the South was probably hardest hit. So, if we go to Ho Chi Minh City, I can say that we're at a real dearth for what I think qualifies as fine dining at this point in time. I think there is still upscale and there's still casual dining, but it’s something that has come to my attention. Starting to hopefully come my way. 29:35 But right now, we only have one restaurant that I think is really notable, or I should say one chef that I think is really notable. And his name is Sakal. And Sakal, he's a Cambodian native, but he went to France, grew up in France, served with the military in France, basically was cooking for top brass and generals in the French military and wound up here in Vietnam. 29:44 And again, Sakal is the always smiling, humble, but extremely skilled chef. He's got two restaurants in Ho Chi Minh City. So, he's got one restaurant called Le Carto which has been there for ages. I think I might even say 1999, if I recall correctly, because he did the dinner for the state visit of Fancois Mitterrand, when he came to Vietnam. He's also got a relatively new restaurant called P'ti in Thao Dien, or district 2. So, I'm hoping to see more chefs come back to Vietnam. I think that there is a great amount of talent in this country. Kerry Newsome: 30:42 What's so lovely about talking to you, Raj, is that when people go to these restaurants, normally, they wouldn't know these background stories. They wouldn't know the journey of that Chef to be in that location, to be cooking that style of food to have that origin. So, it's really beautiful. And I'm really delighted that my audience, everyone listening, is going to be able to go there and say, "Oh, is this the guy that rode the bike from Paris to Vietnam." I think I read or heard that on Kerry's podcast "What about Vietnam!" This guy named Raj Taneja was talking about it. That's really gold in my book. 31:28 I want to talk a little bit and maybe take a step back in the sense that is there something about Vietnamese food as in its natural produce, as in its seafood, is that what draws chefs to Vietnam? Or is it the opportunity to bring that wonderful fusion together? You've spoken about Italian, French, Korean, Japanese, and that kind of eclectic mix must really produce some exquisite food. But is it actually the produce in Vietnam because everybody talks about Vietnamese food being so fresh, very fresh to the table. Seafood in particular, is high quality, and it certainly has been in my experience, but everything kind of tastes richer? I don't know. Even the vegetables, the herbs, and the spices seem to have strong aromas. They seem to just have more to them, than possibly what I'd find in my supermarkets here or even in the organic tables that I would buy from. Is there any truth to that? Is there anything that inspires chefs to want to be in Vietnam and explore that further? Raj Taneja: 32:59 I do believe there is a correlation when people do land here, especially if they travel through the region. So, if you've been to Thailand in Laos and maybe you've been to Indonesia or Cambodia, Vietnamese produce is the standout. Whether it's the chicken eggs, which are almost like neon on the inside, and just taste beautiful. If you're making chicken and the confit that comes out of that is superb. I cannot describe the flavors that we get from the local produce. 33:32 Vietnam has been in the produce game for a very long time. I think what put Vietnam on the map in the 1960s was the export of lettuce and cabbage from Da Lat. And we still see that there's a lot of products that leave Vietnam not even touching local shelves, because it's so good. So, Vietnam is a great growing region. I even learned from your podcast that tulips that are in the Netherlands are actually grown in Vietnam. So, there we go, you’re a wealth of information for me, as well. Kerry Newsome: 34:05 I've spoken to people about pepper in Phú Quốc, and I was talking to Miguel. And he was telling me, "Don't just think about pepper. What about the honey?" Apparently, the honey is amazing, as well. So, you do find those golden nuggets of information that you would have just kind of strode past and not even given a second thought. I mean, I know there's a lot of talk about fish sauce as well, the quality of fish sauce with anchovies, and that sort of thing. I mean, I don't have a lot of knowledge, but just the little bits that I've picked up from some of the food people that have been on my show have really opened my eyes. 34:50 So, I actually go into a place now and when I'm tasting something, I'm thinking of it in a different way. I'm thinking about, do those peppers hard or the chili, or I can taste the marine flavor that's coming from that, the fish sauce. It just gives me a kind of a richer experience, I guess. And that's what I want for the people who listen to the podcast. That's what I want for them. So, it's just good to get your feedback on that. Raj Taneja: 35:20 Well, you don't need to go too far about the fish sauce item. Actually, a lot of the fish sauce in Vietnam gets repurposed into Western brands. So, you may have heard of worcestershire sauce or you might have heard of even the soy sauce, Kikkoman. Some of that is partially made in Vietnam. It comes from there's fish sauce factory in Phú Quốc, there's also a fish sauce factory in Phan Thiết that supplies to these companies. So, they are doing their purchasing here because obviously, we produce a great product. With respect to pepper, I think Phú Quốc gets a lot of credit for their pepper. But there are multiple varieties of pepper throughout Vietnam that are really great. 35:20 There's the Verbena Pepper as well, which can be used both as a skin product, as well as a food product, which is located a little bit further up into Vietnam. I think that also Vietnam faces really harsh competition from the Cambodian pepper component, which is actually very close to Phú Quốc. So, that whole region is full of pepper. Thanks to the influence of Indochina and the French in the past. Kerry Newsome: 36:14 Raj, tell us about some of the five-star hotels. Raj Taneja: 36:36 Well, maybe I shouldn't be saying this. A great hidden secret of Vietnam is that luxury is extremely affordable. Kerry Newsome: 36:46 You should be saying it! Raj Taneja: 36:47 A five-star hotel in Vietnam, sometimes less than $100 US a night. It's okay, maybe they'll raise the prices after I say this. Sometimes, it's very enjoyable to be able to go. For example, I go to Sa Pa and stay at the Hotel de la Coupole, which is an Accor hotel, but run by the General Manager. His name is Joseph Colina, and he's quite an epicurean. He's also a really friendly guy, and he knows how to run that place. The food and beverage in that hotel is spot on, if you want to try fusion. Kerry Newsome: 37:23 I'm trying to get him on my show. Raj Taneja: 37:25 All right, okay, well, I'll send them a good note. Alright, so I will let him talk about that at some point in time. So that's one. We have these mystic hotels like the Legacy Yen Tu. Again, it's Accor hotel, it seems like I'm going to have to talk about a different brand after this. The Legacy Yen Tu is situated at the base of Yen Tu Mountain, which is a trek, I think, 3.5 kilometers up, which leads to a shrine. It's quite a dramatic experience. It feels like you're up in the clouds when you're able to maybe possibly talk to the monk if he's there. So, that's pretty interesting. 38:06 We have a new hotel that just opened in Hà Nội called the Capella hotel, the Capella Group of Singapore, making waves with ultra-high end luxury and they've got Bill Bensley trying to put a story together for that. So, I think Bill Bensley was also in the Legacy Yen Tu and also at the Hotel de la Coupole in Sa Pa. So, those are three hotels that I think are notable. Within Ho Chi Minh City, there are currently hotels being built. We will see how they are after launch. I can't comment before they're open. One of my favorites that I typically stay at regularly, just because it's relatively modern, and has a great rooftop bar, is the Mgallery and being a member of their group brings a lot of privilege. So, I like to go there. Basically, I'm stuck in the hotel all day due to the privileges that they give me. So, there's a lot of that. 39:04 One of the things that I get to do now that I've experienced a lot of the five-star hotels throughout the country, is I get to now go to boutique hotels. So, although I've been spending a lot of time in the upper range, you're going to start to find that a lot of my intelligence will shift down one notch. The other thing that we're working on with the Chaîne is actually creating a guide. Because we're in 90 countries, we have 25,000 members. Our membership, 7,000 of them are professionals in the food and beverage and hospitality industries. It's poignant. 39:38 You mentioned that you don't know these stories about these chefs. Well, if I was to say, Kerry, here's a guide that talks about, here's the chef, here's the restaurant they're at, there's a small little story about who they are. Basically, being able to do this food, beverage, hotels, maybe even suppliers and groceries because if I'm coming to a country. If I might not just want to go out and eat, I might actually want to go to a fine grocery and cook for myself at some point, especially in Vietnam. 40:06 So, it's basically, being able to launch in Vietnam, we're going to launch probably this year in Vietnam, and it will be ready and radiate outwards. So, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, maybe Indonesia, and then probably I have to go back to my home country and give some homage to the chefs that really supported me early. So, we'll do Canada. Hopefully at some point in time, I'll be able to come and shake your hand in Australia as well. Kerry Newsome: 40:31 And this guide, you're saying this is for Vietnam? Or will this be all the countries that you kind of mentioned? Raj Taneja: 40:40 Yeah, so we'll do it addition by addition, based on, obviously, we don't want to make it a humongous direct rate. Kerry Newsome: 40:48 It could be a big book. Raj Taneja: 40:51 Yeah. So, it's going to contain a lot of content based on one-to-one interaction. So, to tell the world that this is someone special, we'll do an addition probably to start for Vietnam. Then I might have to, because obviously, the content for fine dining in Vietnam is quite small. So being able to say, okay, we'll do Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, maybe in one edition. I think it's still something that can fit in your suitcase, and then we go, we'll do another edition for other countries. Again, I don't think it'll be 90 editions immediately. There is a goal to maybe have several 100 editions, depending on how many markets and the size of our guide. 41:35 The other thing is, I think street food is a very important aspect of eating culture in a lot of countries, whether it be Rome, or whether it be Hà Nội. So being able to not invite these street food vendors into our association, which is incorrect, but to say if someone within our association probably is an expert in that realm. Having them curate a piece of the guide, saying, okay, give us five or six venues that you absolutely adore. Let's go and eat at those places, and let's take photos, and let's put them within our guides. So, people have options now. So, I think it's a little bit better than what's currently available to the market. I think someone would want to put that in their handbag, they probably would want to read it on a plane over and then be fully prepared and fully interested in the life story of some of these chefs that they are going to meet. Kerry Newsome: 42:28 Well, certainly for this show, we'll be able to put the transcript together. So, all of your restaurants that you've mentioned, your chefs, etc. and links to your website will all be there. I imagine with your events; you do kind of an announcement to that and obviously send out invitations. Is that how it works? Raj Taneja: 42:53 We certainly do. So, what we do is have a mailing list for Vietnam. We typically like to say that we have our events planned out for the year, although they tend to get canceled with COVID closures and restrictions. And we're hoping that now that Tet is over that we will see some clarity, we expect the reopening. So, let's cross our fingers, Kerry. I need you on this one. Kerry Newsome: 43:17 Raj, I've got big hopes for the year of the tiger. So, let's be brave. Let's be bold. I'm going to be bold in asking one last question. Do you have a favorite dish in Vietnam that is kind of your go to favorite? Raj Taneja: 43:34 I spent a lot of time in the south. So, although there are some phenomenal dishes in the north, for example, the origin of phở so phở is always a treat. It's always some sort of comfort food for me. I find myself in the south enjoying broken rice. So, cơm tấm, sitting there with the grilled meat out on the street corner. There are some special places that used to exist in Saigon, some of them closed. But being able to go out seven or eight at night and sit there with that chili sauce, and that piece of pork and the rice is something that touches my heart to the point where I was in Nha Trang about two weeks ago. I walked by a stall and I was getting late for my flight and I said, "You know my flight can wait." I sat down at the stone, and I had a lovely natural compound which isn't exactly as good as what they have in Saigon, but pretty good. Then I rushed off to the hotel to get in the car to go back to the airport. Kerry Newsome: 44:36 Way to go. It's been really great to chat with you. I'm looking forward to staying in touch. I'll make sure we put the links in especially those two Streets International. I know you have a very deep heart and affection for that organization. As I do. I've had Neal Bermas on the show talking about Streets. So, we really want to see Streets international back in Hội An. Obviously the work you do there is much appreciated. Any last words for my guests before we close out? Raj Taneja: 45:14 One thing that I'd love to say is that for those that are looking to come to Vietnam, and really make an impact, definitely you do need to touch base with these organizations like Streets International , and basically see how you can help. So, I'm happy to be a liaison for that. They're always looking for something. So, let's see what can happen. My heart goes out to anyone who's trying to support the people in this country. Kerry Newsome: 45:44 Okay, thanks very much for being on the program, Raj. Raj Taneja: 45:48 Thank you very much, Kerry. Restaurants featured during the show: Labri Bistro - http://www.labribistro.com/ Le Corto - http://lecortovietnam.com/ T.U.N.G Dining - https://www.tungdining.com/ Cugini - https://www.facebook.com/cugini.tongocvan/] Hotels mentioned:- Hotel de la Coupole Legacy Yen Tu Raj Taneja – Representing Chaîne des Rôtisseurs

S6-E7 Is now a good time to travel to Vietnam < Back S6-E7 Is now a good time to travel to Vietnam S6-E7 Is now a good time to travel to Vietnam 00:00 / 18:17 Series 6 Question 7 Is now a good time to travel to Vietnam? As the world feels increasingly uncertain, it’s a question many travellers are quietly asking… Is now a good time to travel to Vietnam in 2026? Is Vietnam the best place to feel safe and still enjoy a holiday? In this episode, I’m coming to you from Vietnam itself — sharing what I’m seeing on the ground, how global events are really impacting travel (and how they’re not), and what you need to know if you’re planning a trip this year. Because here’s the truth… Vietnam isn’t slowing down. With over 4.7 million international visitors in the first two months of 2026 alone — up more than 18% year-on-year — travellers are still coming. In fact, many are leaning in. So maybe the better question isn’t if you should travel… It’s how to travel smartly in 2026. In this episode, I unpack: What’s really happening with airfares and flight routes Why disruption — not destination — is the real challenge right now The mindset shift travellers have without realising The three types of travellers — and how each types varies in their ability to control changes Five practical strategies to travelwith confidence this year I’m coming to you from Vietnam — sharing what I’m seeing on the ground, and why, for me, it still feels like the sweet spot… with just a few provisos. If you’ve been sitting on the fence, wondering whether to go now or wait… this episode should help you think about that question a little differently. Do you have a travel question or wish to give some feedback? You have 90 seconds. Click to read the voicemail recording policy Previous Next

S5-E14 - Phong Nha. Family fun for everyone S5-E14 - Phong Nha. Family fun for everyone Episode 14 S5-E14 - Phong Nha. Family fun for everyone 00:00 / 36:17 Hey there, fellow adventurers! Today's episode comes straight from my recent Out & About escapade in Phong Nha, and let me tell you, it's a tale worth sharing – but we'll save that for another day. For now, I'm dedicating this special episode exclusively to families, because trust me, you're in for a delightful surprise once you discover all the incredible activities beyond the caves. Believe me, you won't want to miss out on this "life-changing" experience – one kid even described it as "EPIC"! Today, I have the pleasure of chatting with Ben Mitchell, an all-around family man and the mastermind behind the beloved Phong Nha Farmstay. Nestled in northern central Vietnam, Phong Nha is the perfect blend of rich history, cultural immersion, and unforgettable family fun. Plus, it's conveniently situated halfway between the bustling hubs of Hoi An and Hanoi, making it a an adventure in itself getting. What makes Phong Nha truly shine is its breathtaking natural beauty, boasting stunning landscapes and mesmerizing limestone karsts just waiting to be explored. From cave tours to jungle treks, kayaking to river cruises, there's no shortage of adventures to be had here. And let's not forget about the Phong Nha-Ke Bang National Park, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, home to some of the world's most jaw-dropping caves, including the legendary Son Doong Cave. But wait, there's more! Beyond the caves, Phong Nha offers a plethora of activities like biking through picturesque countryside, discovering the charms of Bong Lai Valley, and soaking in the tranquil rural vibes of Vietnam. And lets not forget the Duck Stop. Trust me, the journey to these wonders is just as incredible as the destinations themselves, with each day trip offering a chance to learn, explore, and immerse yourself in the beauty of Phong Nha. Ben really opens up about the kinds of experiences he has witnessed families have during their stay. Okay, it's time to seize the moment! Whether you're tuning in with your earbuds or blasting it through your stereo this weekend, get ready to be inspired. Ooops - I nearly forgot to mention. Contact The Phong Nha Farmstay to book directly; mention this podcast, and receive - One FREE dinner for two adults at the Chefs Table- Mon/Wed/Friday. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S4-05 Nha Trang 10 best things 10 best things about Nha Trang you may not know Episode 5 S4-05 Nha Trang 10 best things 00:00 / 56:39 When looking for beachside locations in Vietnam, you are absolutely spoiled for choice. If you are looking for a beach side city with access to several beautiful islands; plus is known to have 300 days of sunshine, then you need to head to Nha Trang. What was amazing to find out from my guest Colm Hutchinson, an Irish local expat is, that it is the gateway to so much MORE. In the show Colm, who has been running his own digital media company, Halo Media since 2015, speaks to the changes that have taken place over the past 12 years, and how Nha Trang faired during the pandemic. Colm does a fantastic job in our interview as he speaks so fluently to the 10, actually 11 things, he thinks make Nha Trang such a special place. So, settle back for a super interesting show about this beachside paradise as we explore:- 1. 05.04 – The weather 2. 07.02 – The best beaches 3. 15.02 – Island hopping – walking on water 4. 16.01 – The Salt fields 5. 22.37 – Good time to visit after Covid 6. 24.26 – The culture – Explore Cham civilisation and pagodas 7. 26.24 – Biking about on a Vespa 8. 31.03 – Mud baths, good for the skin 9. 32.59 – Food – The seafood mecca 10. 42.35 – Golf – 3 challenging courses 20 mins apart 11. 45.09 – Cam Ranh – styles of accommodation + resorts and A SPECIAL 2 NIGHT STAY OFFER – More detail on the OFFERS page. Photos credit: Igor Imranshoev of Halo Digital Media Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

Vietnam Visa information at WhatAboutVietnam.com | What about Vietnam specialises in first-time travelers to Vietnam through podcasts and transcripts. What About Vietnam is your voice of experience. Phone: AUS +614 416 677 793 Vietnam Tourism Entry Information - updated on 21/05/26 Vietnam Tourist Visa Information 2026 Start here to establish your country's passport validity to enter Vietnam. https://evisa.gov.vn Once you know if your country is either Visa Exempt or you need to apply for an Evisa you can proceed to complete your entry to Vietnam. For all foreigners entering Vietnam, you will need to have the following: Passport Visa - in the case you are required to have. In the case you don’t you need to have one, you do need 6 months validity on your passport and clear pages for stamping. Airline ticket/boarding pass PAI - The new Pre Arrival Information QR code (FREE) - for Ho Chi Minh only. See explanation here. Please note the PAI is new as of 2026 and applies only to those whose first port of arrival is HCMC. The Vietnam Digital Pre-Arrival Declaration (PAI) can only be completed within 72 hours of your arrival into Vietnam FAQs – Tips in Plain English 1. What is an e-visa really? It’s a digital visa linked to your passport. That’s why every detail—name, date of birth, passport number—must match exactly. Even one typo will stop you at check-in. 2. What do I need ready before applying? Passport with 6 months’ validity and 2 free pages A digital passport-style photo (JPEG/PNG, not PDF) A photo of your passport’s main page Your entry city, exit city, and first accommodation address in Vietnam Your PAI organised 3. When should I apply? The system says 3–5 working days, but don’t risk it. Apply 2 weeks ahead. This gives you time to correct any mistakes or resubmit if needed. 4. What’s the difference between visa exemption and an e-visa? If your country is on the exemption list, you get 45 days without applying or paying a fee. If not, you must apply for an e-visa. (Always double-check the official immigration link for updates. - https://evisa.gov.vn/ 5. What happens if something goes wrong? Workarounds exist—VIP letters or flying out to reapply—but they’re expensive and stressful. Better to double-check everything upfront. You will need to contact an Official Travel Agency to arrange this. NEED AN EMERGENCY EVISA - Should this situation arise What About Vietnam has partnered with a company in Vietnam to arrange this, however you would need to contact Host - Kerry Newsome directly on whataboutvietnam@gmail.com as quickly as possible AS TURNAROUND TIME IS CRUCIAL - The cost is $130 USD approximately and paid direct to the operator. We hope this doesn't happen, but as I have been advised in recent weeks this is happening a lot, I hope this service will assist. Mistakes do happen. Fees requested at airports from other suppliers I have been advised can be 3 times as much as this. Normal Fees for an EVisa :- Single Entry - 30 Day E-Visa - Allow at least 3-5 business days for processing. COST: As at 2024 $25 USD Multiple Entry - 90 Day E-Visa - allow at least 5-19 business days for processing and queries. COST: As of 2025 $50 USD (TBC under new system) Contact Kerry at whataboutvietnam@gmail.com Anchor 1 Pre Arrival Declaration (new) Vietnam’s New Digital Pre-Arrival QR Code System (Ho Chi Minh City Only – As of May 2026) If you are travelling to Vietnam and arriving into Ho Chi Minh City via Tan Son Nhat International Airport (SGN), there is now an additional step you need to complete before arrival. This is called the Vietnam Digital Pre-Arrival Declaration and it generates a QR code which you present at Immigration on arrival. Importantly — this is NOT a Visa. It is a separate immigration declaration process and applies even if: • you already have an approved Vietnam eVisa • you are entering visa-free • you are using a visa exemption • you are arriving on a Visa on Arrival approval Think of it as the digital version of the old paper arrival card many countries used to hand out on the plane. Vietnam is introducing this system to help reduce long immigration queues and speed up arrival processing at the airport. As of this date, this requirement only applies to arrivals into Ho Chi Minh City (Tan Son Nhat International Airport – SGN). Authorities have indicated it may expand to other airports in the future, but no confirmed rollout dates have yet been officially announced for Hanoi or Da Nang. Official Government Link The official government portal is: https://prearrival.immigration.gov.vn/ Please be careful of third-party websites charging fees. The official declaration is FREE. Who Needs To Complete It? Currently required for: • Foreign passport holders arriving into Ho Chi Minh City (SGN) • Visa-free travellers • eVisa holders • Visa on Arrival travellers • Overseas Vietnamese travelling on foreign passports with visas Not required for: • Vietnamese passport holders • Transit passengers who do not pass through Immigration When Should You Complete It? You should complete the declaration within 72 hours of arrival into Vietnam. Best advice Do it the day before your flight or during online check-in. Do NOT leave it until arrival if possible. Yes, there are QR codes available at the airport to complete it there, but after a long flight the last thing you want is to stand around trying to access Wi-Fi while hundreds of other passengers move through Immigration ahead of you. What Information Will You Need? The process is relatively straightforward and only takes a few minutes if you have the following ready: Passport Details • Full name exactly as shown in passport • Passport number • Nationality • Date of birth • Passport expiry date Flight Information • Airline • Flight number • Arrival date • Arrival airport (Tan Son Nhat – SGN) Accommodation Details – Important Your first hotel or accommodation in Vietnam: • Hotel name • Address • Phone number if available Travel Information • Purpose of visit • Intended length of stay Contact Details • Email address • Mobile phone number VERY Important Tips 1. Your Details Must Match Exactly Even small mistakes can create delays: • wrong passport number • spelling differences • incorrect arrival dates • wrong airport Vietnam Immigration systems are extremely literal. Don’t think it is okay to miss out any information, or skip a step. Double-check everything before submitting. 2. This Does NOT Replace Your Visa This is probably the biggest confusion for travellers. The QR Declaration: • is NOT a visa • does NOT grant entry permission • does NOT replace an eVisa If your nationality requires a visa to enter Vietnam, you STILL need to organise that separately. The QR declaration simply tells Immigration you are arriving and pre-loads your details into the system. Do I Need A Smartphone? Realistically — yes. I mention this as many people who don’t own or wish to carry a smart phone to Vietnam will need to print the QR code, because once you have completed the submission the system generates a QR code that you will need to show on arrival. You can: • save it as a screenshot • save it in your email • print a paper copy as backup I strongly recommend both: • keep it on your phone • print a hard copy Smart Travel advice:- Airport Wi-Fi is not always reliable and nobody wants flat battery panic standing in an immigration queue after a long-haul flight. Can Airlines Ask To See It? Some reports now suggest airlines may ask travellers to show the QR code at check-in before boarding flights to Ho Chi Minh City. This is not 100% corroborated and seems to be spasmodic at this stage. Because procedures are still evolving, my advice is simple: Treat this exactly the same way you treat your passport and visa. Have it ready before you leave home. Which Airports Currently Require It? As of May 2026, confirmed mandatory implementation applies only to: • Tan Son Nhat International Airport (SGN) At this stage there is no confirmed mandatory rollout yet for: • Noi Bai International Airport • Da Nang International Airport However, Vietnam authorities have indicated expansion to other international airports is likely in future. Final Advice Please don’t let this worry you. This is simply Vietnam modernising its arrival system and trying to reduce airport congestion. If you: • complete it before departure • double-check your details • save the QR code properly …then the process should be very smooth. And honestly, anything that potentially shortens those Ho Chi Minh immigration queues after a long international flight is probably worth five minutes of preparation. Contact Kerry at whataboutvietnam@gmail.com

S4-06 Craft beers in Vietnam What About Vietnam - S4- E6 Craft beers in Vietnam - A heads up! Kerry Newsome: 00:18 Xin Chào and welcome to "“What About Vietnam !” Our subject today is "Craft Beer". And it's an amazing topic to bring up as in regard to Vietnam, but to not include it in the show and to not have it up there, as something really worth talking about would be crazy because there's a real craft beer scene happening in Vietnam as we speak. And that's been developing in a really strong way just over the last maybe three, four years in particular. And I'm delighted today to have Gary Bett on the show. 01:13 Gary is the Head Brewer and founder of "The Five Elements" Brewing Company, which is a small independent brewery in Da Nang. Gary's been in the brewing industry for over 40 years and worked in the UK, Australia, Fiji, China, India, and Vietnam. He actually started as a hot chemist. I don't know what a hot chemist does, I wish I'd asked him actually in the show, I should have done that. And he started that role, with the brewing Research Foundation in the UK before becoming an actual Brewer with CB in Melbourne, Australia. 01:48 After finding himself responsible for Foster's breweries in Asia, India, China, and Vietnam, he always loved coming to Vietnam, which is where he eventually decided to set up his business after leaving Fosters. Vietnam is a great beer market. And as it turns out, this is quite an interesting statistic to take on board is the fact that of all alcohol consumed in Vietnam,95% of it is beer, which is quite extraordinary when you do compare it to other countries around the world. Now, the one important thing about craft beers and Vietnamese craft beers is that you've got to come to Vietnam to try them. And I'm delighted that Gary is on the show because he has the Brewhahataprooms in Da Nang, he also has them in Quảng Ngãi and Nha Trang. And he opens more in the coming years. 02:48 He brews a very interesting Five Element Brew, or brews. And he talks about some of the local ingredients that he has access to in the Northern Highlands and in the Central Highlands, where he uses various different natural ingredients to flavor the beers. And it's those natural ingredients and those flavors, which is the craft obviously, and he tells us a little bit about that. But it means that when you go to try them in the future when you do come to Vietnam and let's face it, you've got to, it's just an experience to have. But you're going to start thinking about some of these flavors that Gary has mentioned. Look, all the details will be in the show notes and available in the transcript on our website, WhatAboutVietnam.com If you prefer to go there and read about it, it's all going to be there. 03:45 In addition, I've kind of added on the website, a really fun activity and fun offer. So, check it out. It is the BBQ Beech Food Tour. And let me tell you what it involves. It takes you through the food markets of Da Nang and it's done with an operator who actually is a qualified chef. And he will then after you've had bite sized pieces, a little taste tests along the way, you will actually get whipped off to this secret location in Da Nang which is beach side. And then he will cook up using some of the bits and bobs that he's bought at the markets on the day. You'll get greeted there with beers, local beers, craft beers, and some wine and over a setting with a bonfire candles and music. The whole tour wraps up with you sipping some nice, long cool drinks over a sunset. I had a hand in crafting this with the operator in Da Nang and I just feel 100% Sure you're going to love it. So please check it out. However, it's time to get ourselves acquainted with craft beers in Vietnam, and I can't think of anybody else to do it better than Gary Bett, who's sitting in Da Nang. So, let's welcome Gary to the program. : 05:19 Xin Chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam Podcast. Today I'm speaking with Gary Bett. Gary, welcome to the show. Gary Bett: 05:29 Thanks for having me. Kerry Newsome: 05:30 Look, today we're going to be talking about a favorite beverage amongst Vietnamese. Well, I mean, I don't think it's exclusive to Vietnamese, how much they love beer. I mean, I'm an Aussie. So clearly, I come from a country that loves beer. But in particular, today, I'm talking to you about craft beer. Because craft beer, in my experience over the last few years in Vietnam, has really been coming up in the headlines, you've got to try the craft beers. Go to Da Nang, you've got to go and try craft beer. So, Gary, I see you as the entrepreneur in this area. And you've certainly been doing a lot of work over the last few years in the craft beer industry in Vietnam having come from a beer and a brewing history. Tell us a little bit about what makes a craft beer. Gary Bett: 06:31 How does a craft beer distinguish itself from a commercial beer? I think it's in the word craft. And that's all about natural ingredients, about the Vietnamese say, "beer thủ công " which means "handmade", thủ công, it's made with the hands, which I think sums it up. So, this is we're talking about small breweries, small independent breweries, making a natural product making beer. And in Vietnam, of course, there's some special ingredients that you can draw on. And also, there's a vibrant Vietnamese cuisine, which of course, influences tastes and preferences. And so, there's been quite a variety of craft beers that have been developed in Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: 07:17 So, when we think about craft beer, we're thinking about a beer that is handcrafted. And you did say that this beer includes some natural ingredients. Can you talk to us a little bit about some of those flavors and some of those natural ingredients that define it? Gary Bett: 07:42 Sure, sure. I mean, beer is... Beer, by definition is malted barley, malted grain, hops, and yeast. And with craft brewing, we've introduced other ingredients. So, the local ingredients, I'm brewing a range of beers, I brew five beers as the Five Elements range, the Ngu Hanh range. And so, we use... we basically have an international style beer, perhaps the well-known beer, and then we're adding a Vietnamese flavor that's complementary to that. So, for instance, I'll give an example. We brew a beer, Tho, which is a black forest ale. 08:24 Now that evokes all those- gives you a bit of a picture straightaway of what you're looking at. But we had Nam Huong which is a forest mushroom. So, it's a Vietnamese shiitake mushroom. And that adds a richness to it, that you normally- add flavor to it. But it's complimentary to the background beer craft. I make a very good, Weizen beer, but it's probably more of a Belgium style where it's a wheat beer, but it's had the citrus that you would normally find in a Belgium wheat beer, it's from Mac Mat, which is a leaf that you would see you'd see in Vietnam wrapped around pork, because there was a barbecue pork. So, we're using a Mac Mat leaf in particular- these citrus notes in a wheat beer. So, these are the kinds of things you can do and experiment with and come up with some very interesting and different flavors. Kerry Newsome: 09:24 Be it that you are handcrafting these beers and I guess, quantity wise, does that make a batch of beer- even though you're using the same ingredients, does that make one batch of beer slightly different from another? Or are they kind of traditionally exactly all the same? So, on any given day, you can't really tell the difference, even though it's a different batch or a new batch. Gary Bett: 09:53 Yeah, we produce in relatively small batches, certainly comparing with the big breweries, but it gives you an ability to experiment. So, we have maybe a 500-liter batch or a 1000-liter batch. And then that could get consumed very quickly and therefore, you can change the next, a bit more of this, bit less of that, which you can do. 10:21 We have our own taprooms, all the craft brewers here in Vietnam tend to have their own taprooms. So, we can have regular customers come in and you can say, the latest batch of this particular beer, you should give this one a try. So, again, it's a variety within your own range. I mean, all brewers aim for consistency, I mean, once you've gone through a good recipe, you want to keep that recipe consistent. So, we've hit the mark with quite a few of our beers now, with some of the beers we're still experimenting, which is part of the fun, both for the brewer and for the drinker in terms of what's his latest batch. Kerry Newsome: 11:03 Just to make sure that I'm understanding this. So, these beers that you made, obviously have got a lifespan. So, talk to me about preservatives and alcohol content and things like that. What is the life of a brewed batch of beer? Gary Bett: 11:21 Beer should be consumed as quickly as it can be, to when it was produced. We're all natural. · We don't use preservatives. · We don't pasteurize. · In fact, we don't filter at the moment. So, it's a completely natural product. We would like to see the beer consumed probably within one or two months after we've made it. I mean, they are usually consumed quite a lot faster than that, certainly within a month. Again, it comes back to this having small batches, it gives you the opportunity to do that small batches, if you have a small batch in your own outlets, you can sell the product through and make sure it's moving. That just becomes less of an issue. Kerry Newsome: 12:07 Okay, talk about the alcohol content. Gary Bett: 12:12 The alcohol content, we have a range of... well, our beers have a range, we have Kim who is standard 4.6% Alcohol. So, it's very easy to drink. End of the day, either you've been to the beach, or you've been working or had to work in Vietnam. But if you are certainly convinced the beach has a great end of the day kind of drink. And then we have a range of different alcohols and different products right up to Tui, which is a Belgium Strong Dark Ale, which is seven and a half percent alcohol. That's what we brew. Now some of the other brewers think, they've been brewing a lot, some stronger alcohols that vary up to 10%. But I don't think those are particularly session beers. Maybe you have one. So, I strongly say, at the moment is a seven and a half percent alcohol. And then we have an ingredient called Tagua which is like black cardamom. Add some black cardamom in it, which gives it that kind of spicy, almost a Christmas cake addition really. Kerry Newsome: 13:13 So, for my listeners who are coming to Vietnam, there's only one way they're going to try these beers. Because they only exist in your brewery in Vietnam. They can't buy them off the shelf anywhere else, can they? Gary Bett: 13:32 No, they can't at the moment anyway, maybe in time we'll, we'll package, and we'll export but at the moment we're selling only in our own outlets and some key accounts. We've got some friendly accounts that we supply to. So, at the moment, we have three outlets. We have one in Nha Trang. We have one in Quảng Ngãi and we have one here in Da Nang. And they've been open a year now actually, the biggest one has been over a year now, pretty centrally located and easy to find in Nha Trang , Da Nang and Quảng Ngãi . And then we supply to some outlets down in Phú Quốc, which is a pretty famous tourist destination. And we will slowly introduce into other markets. Either we open the more outlets, or we supply to more key accounts. 14:22 But if somebody's visiting Vietnam and they want to try craft beer, there's a number of craft breweries down in Saigon. There's a number of them in Hanoi. There's not as many in Central Vietnam. So, in Saigon, you've got Pasteur Steet . You've got Heart of Darkness . You've got Taytay. There's been an explosion or there was an explosion of craft brewers in Vietnam. And similarly, in, in Hanoi there's more than a couple, there's a few craft brewers up in Hanoi. An interesting place for tasting beers probably not expecting their way. I think there's one thing about Vietnam, which I don't think everybody appreciates is that the Vietnamese are absolutely beer centric. It's part of their culture, it's part of their social life. I often use the statistic, of alcohol consumed, 95% of alcohol consumed in Vietnam by Vietnamese is beer. Now that might seem to be... Kerry Newsome: 15:21 Staggering. Gary Bett: 15:22 Well, it's an outlier. It's out there on its own, everywhere else, every other country would have a pretty mix of different alcohols. In Thailand, it will be whiskey, in Japan, it will be Saké, it might be rice wine in China. There can be Soju in Korea, there's always an alternative of wine in some markets, there's always an alternative alcohol is socialization, alcohol consumed. But in Vietnam, and it has been as for as long as I've known Vietnam, it's beer. And it's not just guys, it's wives and families, and beer is a central part of socializing. Kerry Newsome: 16:07 How did the Vietnamese market take to craft beer? Gary Bett: 16:12 Very well, I mean, as you say, they're just general love and openness to the product, which helps and isn't the Vietnamese are very curious. So, they're naturally curious about new things and international trends, they are very conscious. There's a lot of Vietnamese who go for education overseas, so they can go to the US, and they go to Australia, UK. So, they come back, and they know what the latest has been happening. And then they obviously- the Vietnamese see what the tourists are looking for, and the international business travelers are looking for. And then they're obviously very open to craft beer. So, I think that is generally pretty well accepted. It's not really the barrier that you would normally see for new products or new initiatives. It wasn't something that had to be overly sold. Kerry Newsome: 17:03 Why am I laughing at that? No, it wouldn't be hard to sell. And just to clarify for me as well. Do you- I know you have it on tap. But you are obviously have it in bottles as well? Or how do you distribute it to other places like Phu Quoc? Gary Bett: 17:26 At the moment, I'm just kegging. The new beers have bottled and canned beers in Vietnam before. There's a very pure efficient bottle recycling system in Vietnam, which is obviously environmentally friendly. And it's part of the way that beer industry in Vietnam works. And then for the model of trade, I'm talking about convenience stores and supermarkets, they're pretty open to having cans on the shelf. So, there's some canning, so actually, I'm looking at buying a canned line, maybe early next year, as there is a can plant only half a kilometer away from my brewery. So, it makes sense for me to start thinking about doing cans. Kerry Newsome: 18:17 I wanted to just delve a little bit more into the natural ingredients that you started talking about. And maybe could you speak to us just a little bit about how and where you get some of those natural ingredients from? And is this becoming an industry that a lot of Vietnamese are wanting to work in? Will you pass on your skills to become a brewer and things like that. Like is the industry kind of heading that way? Yeah, I'd just like to know more about not so much the mushrooms but the mushrooms and like cardamom and things like that, because what I think is unique to Vietnam is the flavors and the flavors in Vietnam for some people are quite intense. Sometimes they can get upset tummies and things like that, but I feel it's rich in flavor. So, for me it suits me, but I think the way vegetables that are grown, the soil and all that kind of stuff plays a role. So maybe speak to us a little bit about that and why did you choose mushrooms over, something else? Or why did you go- what steered you in, in which direction? Gary Bett: 19:43 Okay, can I start first with what the basic raw materials for beer? Kerry Newsome: 19:48 Yes. That was a big question. I just realized that. Gary Bett: 19:52 So, the basic raw materials for beer are barley or malted barley, generally, and hops and yeast. So actually, Vietnam doesn't have any barley growing regions or hop growing regions in Vietnam. But it is in the middle of between the big areas that do have that. So, we can choose to get our barley from Europe, or we can choose to get our barley from Canada, or we can choose to get our barley from Australia, actually, in Vietnam, most of the barley actually comes from Australia, I think. And there is a malting plant where the barley is, is malted here in Vietnam, run by Intermalt , which is associated Western Australia Barley Industry. 20:39 So that's important. And then the hops again, can come from Australia, or can come from the US or can come from Europe, Germany, or France, or wherever. So, we have a selection of all sorts of or different varieties of hops from around the world, which gives the craft brewers the flexibility to choose where they get their hops from. Now, in terms of- that is international component of the beer, which is pretty standard. And as far as the local component, I'm quite lucky in that- my wife's Vietnamese and her relatives have landed up in the Central Highlands, in Northern Highlands. And so, we can draw directly from their farm. 21:23 So, if something like Mak Mak, we can get on the phone and have it delivered in a day or two, when we run short, the forest- the shiitake, the Nam Han, which is the shiitake mushrooms, which comes from the Northern Highlands. And that comes from the forest. So basically, people go out into the forest and harvest these, these mushrooms, and then they put them on bamboo, dry them and put them on bamboo sticks. And that's how we receive them. And so, they're very natural. And then likewise, with the Tagua, the black cardamom, and that, again, is a spice that comes from the highlands. 22:01 And then we have Soy spice, which is as a spice, a true spice, or a hot spice. And we're using [inaudible 22:09], which is the beer Quah, which is a Forest Fire. So, we use it in the spicy red ale, and we add the Soy space to that. But all the local ingredients, they add, they are complimentary to the beer and they're not going to bite your head off. They're subtle flavors that are complementary to the beer. So, you might not like them. Sometimes, we have customers that don't like a particular flavor. But that's the whole thing about having choice. 22:37 You want particular like that on, but you love that one, and we find that a lot. Some people might like it, some people might not so, but that's great. I think that's a good part about it, we see flavors, and what I'm trying to do as well with the flavors, is, there should be recognizable to Vietnamese. So, you see them, they're tasting, and they go, they recognize it, "Not sure! Not sure!" if there is a flavor going... And then when you say what it is, "Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. Okay." So, it might feel like, my target consumer, a local consumer. And so, it gives them a- now I am used to the five elements are talking point of the Nhu Hang, the narrative about The Five Elements is a talking point, but also the flavors they recognize, not straightaway, but they suddenly realize where that flavor is coming from. So that's what I do. Kerry Newsome: 23:31 Yeah, and that's kind of a nice story to tell about it that you are targeting locals and Vietnamese. And obviously they're resonating with those flavors. And they're trying to pick it. And I think it's just, say when you are trying these beers. That's kind of part of the adventure, isn't it? Gary Bett: 23:55 I don't really want to do copycat craft beer. So, I don't want to do that. A New England IPA. I mean, why would I want to do a New England IPA in Vietnam, just copying a style. And leaving as it is, I don't see much point in that. So, I just want to try and create something, as you say that's appealing to the locals, which is recognizable, has a good story behind it. And I like as well, which is good too. Kerry Newsome: 24:26 Thanks very much for being on the show. I just want to finish up with what I'm going to include in the show for everyone listening. So, we'll include obviously the addresses of where your breweries, or where people can go to try it. So, we'll definitely put those in the show. I want to put a little bit more around The Five Styles. So, I might get you to give us a little bit more information there so everyone listening can understand that. Is there anything you want to finish off with? Gary Bett: 25:02 It's always a bit difficult talking about beer without a beer in front of you. So, I'd really like [laughter] so if anybody's coming to Vietnam, by all means come to our Brewhaha in Da Nang or and if I'm here, always ask for me. I am more than happy to sit down and talk about the beers and beer glass in front of me. I think it's a lot easier, a bit more fun. Kerry Newsome: 25:25 A bit more fun. Brilliant. Thanks for being on the show Gary. All the best. Gary Bett: 25:29 Okay, thank you. Thanks very much. Thank you. Links as promised: BREWHAHA FB - https://m.facebook.com/brewhahavietnam BREWHAHA NHA TRANG 0779 027 779 https://goo.gl/maps/h9yqLxhuH5wUh6ca6 BrewHaHa QN 0763 537 676 https://goo.gl/maps/FbkRWstKBqwDKgkW9 Brewhaha - Danang 091 134 09 89 https://goo.gl/maps/fHPig3rJPVEPmjeQ9

S5-E18 - Hanoi below the surface S5-E18 - Hanoi below the surface Episode 18 S5-E18 - Hanoi below the surface 00:00 / 1:01:33 In this episode we delve into the vibrant yet often misunderstood city of Hanoi, While it is the capital, it often serves more as a transit point for travellers to visit other places like Halong Bay, Ninh Binh and Sapa. This is an opportunity to see Hanoi in a whole new light.

Get ready for an eye-opening conversation with my close associate and mentor, Ha, (Hannah)—a proud Hanoian professional with deep roots in the city. Spoiler Alert: In the show we don’t walk the well-trodden tourist paths of Hanoi. We go below the surface to uncover its Christian background: Coffee culture, and the history behind the collective living quarters of Hanoi and how the Doi Moi period has shaped Hanoi and essentially the Vietnam you are visiting today.

00:05:31 - Update on Typhoon Yagi
00:12:00 - Discovering Hanoi Below the Surface
00:18:19 - Catholic Heritage 
00:22:15 - Coffee Culture
00:34:03 - Collective Living Quarters in Hanoi
00:36:26 - The Doi Moi Period

Tours
If you would be interested in pursuing a Churches tour, Please email me whataboutvietnam@gmail.com Yagi – Appeals UNICEF - https://www.unicef.org/vietnam/unicef-emergency-appeal-typhoon-yagi-viet-nam Blue Dragon - https://www.bluedragon.org/emergency-appeal-yagi/

The Collective living quarters https://www.tubudd.com/blog/hanoi-s-communal-housing-areas-give-a-taste-of-vietnam-past Half a million coffee shops https://en.vietnamplus.vn/vietnam-home-to-half-a-million-coffee-shops-post292030.vnp Vietnam rises from hardship and deep poverty https://www.aier.org/article/how-nations-defeat-poverty/ Book -Bridge Generation – Dau Thuy Ha & Nancy K Napier Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Generation-Spanning-Wartime-Boomtime/dp/B08CWB7PGP.Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Generation-Spanning-Wartime-Boomtime/dp/B08CWB7PGP. In this episode we delve into the vibrant yet often misunderstood city of Hanoi, challenging common perceptions that while it is the capital, it serves more as a transit point for travellers to visit other places like Halong Bay, Ninh Binh and Sapa. Whether you're planning a trip or simply curious about the city, this episode invites you to see Hanoi in a whole new light. Be prepared for an eye-opening conversation with my close associate and mentor, Ha—otherwise known as Hannah—a proud Hanoian professional with deep roots in the city. Spoiler Alert: In the show we don’t walk the well-trodden tourist paths of Hanoi. We go below the surface to uncover its Christian background: Its coffee culture, and the history behind the collective living quarters of Hanoi and how the Doi Moi period has shaped Hanoi and essentially the Vietnam you are visiting today. 00:05:31 - Update on Typhoon Yagi's Impact
00:12:00 - Discovering Hanoi Beyond the Surface
00:18:19 - Unique Catholic Heritage in Northern Vietnam
00:22:15 - Hanoi's Coffee Culture
00:34:03 - Collective Living Quarters in Hanoi
00:36:26 - Understanding the Doi Moi Period impact
00:43:00 - Vietnam's Economic Transformation
00:45:20 - Observing Old and New in Vietnam To help guide you to topics covered in the show, See links below for reading. If you would be interested in pursuing a Churches tour in and around Hanoi, please send a message to whataboutvietnam@gmail.com Yagi – Donation Appeals: UNICEF - https://www.unicef.org/vietnam/unicef-emergency-appeal-typhoon-yagi-viet-nam Blue Dragon - https://www.bluedragon.org/emergency-appeal-yagi/ Communal living - The Collective living https://www.tubudd.com/blog/hanoi-s-communal-housing-areas-give-a-taste-of-vietnam-past Half a million coffee shops https://en.vietnamplus.vn/vietnam-home-to-half-a-million-coffee-shops-post292030.vnp How Vietnam rises from hardship and deep poverty https://www.aier.org/article/how-nations-defeat-poverty/ Book Recommendation in the show - The Bridge Generation of Việt Nam (Spanning Wartime to Boomtime) Other Hanoi Episodes - S3-E9, S4-E9, S4-E10, Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S4-25 A fun Guide to droning - Photos Part 3 S4-25 -Drone photography in Vietnam A fun Guide for travellers Part 3 Photography 00:00 Kerry Newsome Xin chào and welcome to What About Vietnam. Now, if you're thinking about Vietnam, you're obviously going to start searching social pages, Googling Instagrams, Reels, you name it. And amongst that search, you're going to find a lot of great photography and in particular, a lot of great drone photography. So when I was putting together the 3 part series, I had to include it as 3 parts because whilst we got a lot out of Thomas, like we really learnt some great tips on how to manage our phones or our cameras to get some great pics in Vietnam. But we couldn't just talk about photography and let it stand alone as drone photography and drone video is becoming, you know, something that everybody can do, even people like me. I was fascinated with it back in 2018 and started to bring a drone camera into Vietnam to take some shots. Unfortunately, on the occasion, the weather was pretty awful. So, I didn't have such a great time of it. But at that time, there was a lot of nervousness around bringing a drone camera into Vietnam and doing drone video for a lot of security reasons. There were some people trying to bring it into the country and just for recreation. And, you know, they were getting stopped at security and asked questions. And, you know, there was lots of talk about being confiscated and things like that. So, it was a bit of a crazy time. But in today's chat with my really well informed and local guest, Anton. And you'll hear me try to pronounce his surname in the show, which I think I get right. We're going to talk to him about how he's kind of started droning in Vietnam, but started back in Malaysia. But let me do Anton justice by giving you a little bit of background to him. He's from Ukraine. And while travel is not easy from there, for the past five years, he's been traveling throughout Asia, starting in Malaysia, where he taught English in KL for three years. He really enjoyed that time. And he decided to venture a little deeper into Southeast Asia and found himself in Vietnam. Oh, surprise. Malaysia spiked his interest in blogging as a hobby. And from there, his interest has grown. And he says, you know, when you travel alone, because timing just doesn't always work to join with friends, you still want to share your experiences with others. And I agree totally. So while his hobby started with Instagram, it's taken on a life of its own and morphed into a YouTube channel where filming from his Lumix G85 and his GoPro 8 was doing a satisfactory job. He said, you know, he just had the urge to take it up a notch. So here comes the drone as the best tool to capture those ordinary moments and panoramic views and turn them into extraordinary masterpieces. With the rise of apps and cutting edge technology that allows fantastic editing, capturing epic images and videos from unique perspectives in Vietnam, look now has never been easier. Anton continues to teach English from his base in Vietnam and says he feels like Vietnam has it all, beaches, mountains, hills to hike and old towns and basically anything you want whenever his schedule permits. He is out exploring more of the country and droning where he can. I've put all the links in the show notes so you can follow him on his YouTube channel and you know, I first spotted Anton on YouTube doing one talking about Danang and I think you're going to get a lot out of that. So definitely worth checking out. From my perspective, Anton was able to simplify some of the basic protocols for using your drone for non-commercial purposes. And that's what we're going to stick to in this show. So. if you're the guy that's going to do the next Tourist in Vietnam love story, you will have to get some special permissions. This is definitely for your leisure and recreational traveler who has an interest in photography and in particular drone photography. It is the third part of the photographic series that I've just put together this month. So I hope you're really going to enjoy it. From my perspective, I've had some great fun using my DJI Mavic Pro 3. It's a bit of a monster one. It's about one kilo. But, you know, just the shots that you can get on the right day at the right time are worth it, definitely worth it. But he's Anton. Let's welcome him to the show and learn a little bit more about droning in Vietnam in twenty twenty three. Today, I'm very excited to welcome Anton Glushkoff to the program. He's having a little smile at me at the moment because I've I think I've got his surname pronounced correctly, but just really happy to have 06:01 Alright Anton you on the program and welcome to What About Vietnam. Hi, Carrie. Thanks for having me here. It's exciting. 06:07 Kerry Newsome You said that's a really good start. Now we're going to be talking about something that I have a great interest in. And that's drone photography. We see a lot of it on your Instagram’s and your Reels and your YouTube videos. And I've seen the recent one that you did on Da Nang, which was fantastic. So I'm really going to ping you with lots of questions about how you came to get involved with drone photography in your interest. So let's start kind of right at the beginning, if I may, and say, OK, Anton, what made you decide to get into drone photography and in particular in 06:51 Alright Anton Vietnam? Good question. Well, I started my YouTube like two years ago and I started with my GoPro. That felt like amazing. It's got 4K stabilization. It was great. But when you start filming, it's never enough. So then I bought a new camera and then it was great. It was awesome. But then again, it felt like not enough. And I started thinking about drone because, you know, it gives you this perspective and it's an amazing tool. I just I can't get enough of it. There's so many things you can do that it can fly. It can film. It's got a stabilization. So any kind of altitude. So, yeah, well, one time I just think like, well, well, that's going to be my next step. I just got to get a drone and I was trying to choose one that would be perfect for me. I chose something not too expensive. I've got DJI Mini 2. So that's, I think, very good choice for a traveler, for a solo traveler. And, yeah, yeah, it did. It works perfectly well. And it's really fun. It is. 07:56 Kerry Newsome And, you know, some of the drone photography that we all see sort of gives a perspective of some places that you can't see from the ground. You just cannot get that perspective and that 360 degrees, which is what I think is fabulous, but getting back to some kind of basics for people who are thinking about bringing their drone to Vietnam, can you speak to us a little bit about just some tips maybe on carrying the camera, how best to do that? You know, we've got lithium batteries getting through security, you know, like some of the pointers there for people and especially just your recreational drone 08:46 Alright Anton flyers that are just in it for fun. Yeah, I've been thinking about this question. I have just posted this video about Danang, right? And it's about just flying a drone. To be honest, it was not the main idea behind it. I just wanted to create a theme for the video and I chose the drone because there were some issues with drone, but, yeah, now after this video, you know, my YouTube is very small, like there's like 400 followers and usually people don't should bombard me with questions, but this time at least six or seven people asked me like, oh, drone, how did you bring it in? How did you fly? Were there any problems? And I was generally surprised, like, what problems? What kind of problems are you talking about? Because I personally have never had any issues with it, never. And like I've lived in Vietnam for two years now. I've owned this drone for a year. And well, there were some issues, but there were more about filming in certain areas, there were some restrictions and sometimes there would be some people who would approach me and say, like, no, you cannot fly here. That that happened a few times. But like I flew in and out two times. I flew once to Malaysia with my drone and flew once to Thailand. So I also I did domestic flights with the drone. And no one ever asked me anything. And I'm a bit of, I don't like check- in luggage. So I always carry everything with me. So they would actually be able to scan my bag and see that there's a phone with those three lithium batteries and they never said anything. There is one thing, though, I guess it works. I'm very tall and I think Vietnamese people, I might be a bit intimidating. I'm like two meters tall and I'm quite big. So it's like, you know, I know I've heard stories not related to the drone, but I know, like, in certain situations, like my friends would be bothered by some guys while with me they would be like,ok!! 10:43 Kerry Newsome Yeah. I think that's fantastic. Yeah. I mean, I know when I mean, I always bring a lot of luggage and I kind of stay my maximum of 30 days, so I've usually have got a fair bit as carry on, as well as check in. But in that carry- on proponent, I would kind of disassemble the drone, take the batteries out, put them in a separate bag and have heaps of chords and that. So I did get the odd look occasionally. And some of the security people would kind of go through things a little bit more thoroughly and asking me what they were, what the batteries were, what they were for, et cetera. And I felt this was kind of like four or five years ago when it was kind of still new in Vietnam. And I'd just say it was for a camera. And that was kind of the easiest way to explain it. Drone was, you know, how do you say drone in Vietnam? Don't know. So I just went for camera and I kind of do that and then I'd get it. And I didn't have any problems. But there was quite a bit of nervousness there for a while about the responsibility as a tourist, you know, that people were taking the precautions about flying and being safe with it. And obviously, you've already brought that up in that video that you did on Danang and for everyone listening, I'll put the link to Anton's video so you can check it out yourself. But it was it was good to bring up things like no- fly zones and things like that. And I've seen some drone photography where I've gone. There's no way they could have done that unless they were standing about there or they were over there or whatever. So I'm not sure. I mean, have you seen much kind of police watching of people with drones or seen other people flying drones irresponsibly, I guess? 12:48 Alright Anton I haven't like personally seen people doing it, but I've seen videos where I know like, this is probably not legal. I have seen that and that is dangerous for multiple reasons. Responsible, you can get other people in trouble and you can get into trouble. Well, I think generally it's not a good idea when you are traveling. You don't want to get into problems. And normally with the drones like DJI application, DJI fly application is really smart and always use the restriction zones. It marks them on the map. Yeah. So it won't let you lift off and they will notify you. But I know like that people have these programs. There are some additional programs. They there's lots of things that can be done to drones and that's not safe. And yeah, in this case, that's a very easy way to get into problems because some of those restrictions zones can be related to government buildings or military buildings. And very problematic. Can become very serious. 13:56 Kerry Newsome And you don't have to do that. I mean, I think being responsible, which leads to my question to you about, can you suggest or would you recommend people do some homework before arriving into Vietnam just so that they get a bit of a lay of the land kind of thing? 14:08 Alright Anton I would sometimes use again the same application because you don't really need to actually fly the drone to access as you can open and you can look at the map. And yeah, I would say I just open the map and look at the area where I'm going to see whether any restriction zones, because like a couple of weeks ago I went to Thailand, to Koh Samui and Koh Tao, and then I decided to check, oh, so what's around these islands? Then I realized, oh, wow, actually, there is a big airport in Koh Samui. And obviously there's a restriction zone. So I thought, oh, OK, well, then it kind of changed my plan about my film because I realized that, well, I won't be able to fly my drone because the airport is just there in the middle and obviously it's not safe and you cannot lift off. So, yeah, that's certainly yes. Googling, I don't know, because I well, when all these questions came about droning, I started checking on the internet. So what does the internet say? And I was like, yeah, you cannot fly to Danang with a drone. You cannot do this. You cannot do that. I'm like, what does this come from? Like, I mean, again, I don't know for sure. Like I talk from my personal experience. So maybe some people have had a bad experience. I wouldn't be surprised. But in my case, like, no, no one really bothered me. Again, maybe because of the size, because I'm flying DJI Mini. It's 249 grams. I've got the pro. If it is, yeah, if it is pro, if it was like one kilogram, 15:33 Kerry Newsome it's different kind of equipment that one. It looks like you're a professional. So you may have some profession in media or, you know, you're going to do something of a professional or business nature versus yours, which is, you know, more recreational, you know, more for traveling. So I think, you know, everyone, if you if you've got a drone or you're thinking about buying a drone and you'd like to bring that to Vietnam and you're not really kind of dead serious about making, you know, drone photography, your business or that kind of thing, I think it's much easier if you buy the smaller model, as Anton suggesting, and I'll put the name of the one that you use, Anton, in the show notes so everyone's got that. Yeah, because I did the same as you. I did a lot of checking of Googling and whatever. And then I found on some website there was some forms that you had to fill in to declare whether or not you were filming for business, you know, professional purposes or whether you were using the drone for recreational. And I was a bit conflicted then because I thought, oh, well, I do a podcast and I put it up on YouTube. Is that for professional or is that recreational? I don't know. What do you think? 16:59 Alright Anton Professional would be something related to bigger institutions if you're making like a big video for a big company that needs to legally check everything, because like if you're making a drone footage for, let's say, Apple, yeah, obviously they need to go through legal restrictions and checking, then yes, if I made a video for that kind of organization, I'd probably be a little more serious because then, yes, that could be checked. If you're making for your own YouTube, I don't think you'd need to do that. I did check that again. There was one person who commented on my video and saying, like, oh, yeah, you must get a license. You must do that. You must do this. And I know that in America now, like if you go to a certain place, you must have a drone flying license. And it totally makes sense. But then I checked whether this is a thing in Vietnam. And apparently, not really. You can get a license. It looks like it's for commercial film. If you're making commercial video, yes. And that's like five hundred dollars. And it's like, as I understood, like for one day of flight or something. And yeah, but that's not exactly what I'm doing. 18:10 Kerry Newsome No, certainly not. And I'm sure if they saw the quality of some of my drone photography or my videos, they'd go, no, she's definitely not making money out of that. So, no. So tell us some tips about flying a drone in Vietnam. Are there any kind of peculiarities? I mean, the little bit of learning that I had was kind of not particularly extensive. The little bit I heard was, you know, things about flying in the middle of the day, kind of not ideal because of the direct sunlight and things like that. So do you have any tips for my listeners about if they are out there drone flying in Vietnam, things they should look out for? 18:56 Alright Anton Yeah, middle of the day, it's my problem too. I'm a little bit lazy. I need to solve it. It's easy. There's this thing called energy filters, like a small filter that you attach to your camera. It's basically like, you know, like sunglasses, but for your drone. And then you can film everything and it doesn't get overexposed. Yeah. And it's kind of easy to buy. And I should because I have an ND filter for my camera because it's the same thing. There's too much sun. I think it's overexposed. And yes, certainly if you want to make nice footage, something like nice and smooth ND filter would be helpful. There was a problem like lifting off sometimes. Like if you want to lift off, you know, Vietnam, there's all these wires and buildings and that would be sometimes a challenge. I wouldn't like it's especially in a city in the time. It's really hard to find like a free spot, a safe spot just to lift off. Because of the congestion. I would struggle with that sometimes. 19:55 Kerry Newsome Yes. And the wires. Yes, of course. Yeah. And what about things like birds? 19:59 Alright Anton Oh, yes, yes, birds. They terrify me. And they are really, really interesting, especially for some reason, swallows. They just like they start circling around drone. I had some footage when you fly it and I see like, wow, those swallows, they are getting quite serious about it. And once I filmed, I traveled in the Ha Long Bay and there were these huge eagles that would be like circling around. You know, swallow is not going to do anything. 20:30 Kerry Newsome It's tiny, but eagle. It could have it for breakfast. It hits the drone. 20:36 Alright Anton Sure. I was like flying around. I didn't film it, but I saw eagle just like one meter away from drone. 20:43 Kerry Newsome I was like, OK, it's not to go back. How do you go navigating the weather? Because let's face it, you can have your drone up there and you're watching the skies and very quickly it can change. So you've got to kind of get, get down and get down quickly sometimes. Have you had that experience? 20:58 Alright Anton Actually, No, I was really lucky. I haven't really filmed anything in the south of Vietnam yet. Like I haven't done in the South, it's the tropical weather that's where the rain happens all the time. North Northern weather is more stable, so it can rain. But then you can see it coming. It would be kind of like a day before it builds up and then, you know, the next day is going to be bad. But it could be windy. The wind is a challenge and it burns the battery really quickly. And sometimes difficult to film anything. Sometimes it's so strong that even the gimbal cannot handle it. It's just impossible. And then it's dangerous because you can't really lift off easily. Landing is challenging. I think wind has been the biggest challenge because it just spoils everything. And then, you know, like you have a pro drone, so it's heavier and it's much more stable. Mine is small, so it's great for travelling. But it's light. So when the yes, yeah. And heavy rain, I would think. Oh, yeah. I mean, rain. Actually, yeah, I was in Bana hills near Danang and the rain was approaching us. Yeah, that just I have to cancel. I see there's rain and, you know, these drones are just not made flying when there's water around it. So, yeah, there are some clouds, a bit of a drizzle. And, yeah, I had to cancel the whole plan because it's just unsafe. The drones do collapse, whatever. 22:38 Kerry Newsome So, yeah, if it happens, then I guess you've got to kind of throw it in, don't you? Yeah, I had a crack at doing Bana hills and it was just fraught with danger. Like every time I tried to set it up to lift off, there'd be some people that would come and I was trying to go like to the furthest point and it was late in the day. So nearly everyone had left. It was quiet. It was quiet and normal. And like, I thought I really wanted to get that kind of as the day was ending, kind of feel and look about it, et cetera. But then the wind came up and started to rain and like I just yeah. So I had to cancel the whole thing. Have you had any success up there? Bana hills? 23:25 Alright Anton No, no. It was in a way a bit of a disaster. But yeah, I was, you know, Bana hills are made with this golden bridge with these hands. I was like, whoa, this is going to be so cool. You know, they build all this artificial village, which is kind of cool anyway. Not really a big fan one. But it is cool. I think so too. Cool. And I thought, wow. Yeah. And then I thought, wow, it's going to be great to fly my drone. And then I get there and it gets covered in clouds like almost immediately. And it starts drizzling. I'm like, OK, well, I can use my camera. It's going to be fine with it. But drone, unfortunately not. And also, like usually they say, as I see it, like on the top of the hills, it's usually almost well, especially for a small drone. It's hard to fly. The wind is too strong. And I've also watched videos that sometimes on the top of the hill, the wind can be so strong that just can carry your drone away and you won't be able to get it back and it's going to be gone. And it happens. So I'm very, very careful with that because like you can fly away. And then on the way back, because of the strength of the wind, you just can fly back. Keep your drone in physical sight or do you let it go? I don't. I do let it go a lot. It's nerve-racking. It's terrifying me still because it's not very expensive, but still it's quite a bit of money. Yeah. So you don't want to lose it. So it's nerve-racking. And yeah, I lose it. I was like, well, very cool because, you know, I need to fly around and see stuff. And yeah, I had a funny case once. I was in Ninh Binh and there's huge complex like temples. It's amazing. It's gigantic. But I didn't want to fly my drone there. So I decided to, OK, we're going to walk around and I get out. And then I lift off just fly around. But I didn't really realize that actually the parking lot is really far from the temple complex, it's like almost a kilometer away. So I lift there and realized, oh, wow, actually I need to fly quite far. 25:27 Kerry Newsome . So you did it? So you lift off from the car park and you had to fly it all the way back to. Oh, right. 25:38 Alright Anton Yeah. It was almost a kilometer. And yeah, like I finally reached it and realized, oh, this is so far away. And it was my literally first trip with the drone. I wasn't really out of physical sight. It didn't go so far away from me. Yeah. And then I started flying around. And then I started losing traction. And one point the screen goes black. Yeah. My heart just drops back. 26:01 Kerry Newsome Yeah. And I find I get that little bit of anxiety with it because I go through that euphoria. Oh, wow. Because I can see what it's seeing and what I'm capturing. So I'm getting excited. But then I'm going, oh, holy hell, this is like a kilometer away or whatever. I've got to kind of get it back. Otherwise, my just anxiety levels just go through the roof and I don't enjoy it then. But in those few moments when I'm really hot or and I'm following a ravine or a river or going around places and behind mountains and things like that, I've done that and yes, it's exciting, but it's a bit scary because you don't want it to crash or not be able to bring it back. 26:46 Alright Anton Just one of the most just one of the most useful lessons that I got from my experience. You know, when you carry your camera, you have this mindset, OK, I need to get in the place and just film around everything I see. That's your mindset. And with drone, it's absolutely different. And I just I'm learning this now that the key point is that you need to find a good vantage point that is like there's no obstruction around you. So it can be maybe 500 meters away from what you actually want to film. But if it is a little bit elevated and there is no walls, no buildings, no mountains, that's like a perfect spot to lift off and film because it would make this mistake. Get very close to the place. And then there is a wall, a brick wall. 27:29 Kerry Newsome And one of the other tips, I don't know that whether you think this is worthwhile, but you almost have to do a little bit of a reconnaissance trip. Don't you think like you can't just kind of arrive and think, oh, yeah, this is just going to be a cinch. Off we go. No, no problems. You almost have to go and do a bit of a surveillance of the area, pick some vantage points where people are not. Do you agree? 27:53 Alright Anton Oh, yeah, totally, totally. 100 percent like the best footage you can make only if you go to the place for a couple of days, just walk around, look what's around, like check the mountains, views, scenery, and then after that, you film stuff. You can get to do it. And that's what I'm going to do in April. I'm going to go to Ha Giang and it's getting my second trip. Like I went there in October, last October. I filmed something, but it was my first trip. So, it was like, well, is this the spot? Is this great? I mean, we need to go further now. I know. So I'm going to go in April and spend like more than a week there. I'm going to film everything there. So, I have time to stop. I know some place that I want to film now. And, you know, but I mean, I live in Vietnam. I had this luxury of, you know, going first and then second. But then the same thing with Koh Samui, I spent like in Thailand, I spent a week there. And yeah, first two or three days were just walking around. And the third, fourth day I just filmed everything. And the footage was amazing. But because I kind of did the recon and I knew where should I go to talk to people? Like, where's the beautiful spot? 29:03 Kerry Newsome Yeah, because that was going to be my next question in just, you know, do you kind of seek out the locals because they always know the great spots? And do you kind of get some advice from them as to help you pick those places and times of day and you should come back in September or something like that? 29:23 Alright Anton Yeah, I think somebody told me before that, oh, well, this is for that season…. 29:32 Kerry Newsome Yeah, I know. Didn't you read that somewhere or listen to a podcast that could have told you that? 29:37 Alright Anton Yeah, yeah, I should. I mean, with drone footage, I actually never really asked anybody because I think it's well, I did, but I not with the local, like with the expats who lived in the area. And I asked them about the rules and regulations, like in Thailand and sometimes in Vietnam to like, where could I go? I would ask them for direction and ask for the places because locals usually know it better. And in Vietnam, things don't really get updated on the Internet. So, you can't really always rely on the Internet and believe whatever they say there, because things change dramatically and people don't always change it on the Google. So you can look at the place and the world can be open, but then you go there is closed and there were, for example, like in the Danang, there is this beautiful temple with Lady Buddha statue and then there's a little peninsula that goes around it. And I thought, wow, this is so nice to go there. Like a beautiful peninsula, like a bit hilly road. And then, no, I couldn't because there was this guy standing and he said, like, no, you're not allowed because you're on a fully automatic motorbike. Only semi-automatic motorbikes are allowed to go to that peninsula for some reason, because as far as I understood, like the terrain there is kind of challenging. So in a fully automatic motorbike, no. So if I had talked to somebody in the Danang, then I would have known probably. So, yeah, it's important. I always talk to locals because they especially like in the hotel, in the hostel, they always know some things that are not on internet. 31:14 Kerry Newsome I think challenging around that region that you're talking about in Sontra is there's a military base also that was very strong there for a while. And I think still part of it is. So I've been tempted to go around, but I've got a shake of head by local police or whatever, saying, like, don't even think about it, you know. So, yes, so it is it is a nice Hai Van pass and all that is awesome. So that would be a great place. So that leads to what places have you filmed that you highly rate so far? I know you've got a few on your list coming up, but what are the ones that you've done so far that are really great? 32:00 Alright Anton Ninh Binh is magnificent. It's just unbelievably beautiful. And like, you know, they compare it to Ha Long Bay and Ha Long Bay is also amazing. But the thing is that Ha Long Bay is on the water. So you film, you need to be on the boat usually, and you kind of restrict it. You can easily walk around to get a better spot. No, you can restrict it. It's amazing. But in Ninh Binh, yeah, you just cycle around and it's fast. It's amazing. Those vast mountains are so beautiful. And like, yeah, the first video I made with my drone was from Ninh Binh and it just it's I couldn't get enough of it. And, you know, there's this point when you're just sitting there, you film and you're realizing, wow, this is unbelievable. This is so beautiful. And yeah, that's one of the best places. Ha Long Bay, I'm going to go there again. 32:56 Kerry Newsome But it's… It is. And I mean, all the photography I've seen, you know, that adds up, absolutely. And I've had people on the show that run tours, Flipside adventure tours, the guys there run motorbike tours and things around. And just the way he spoke, Tom Stone, you know, how he spoke about that area, you could just tell he was just so passionate. And it just came through in everything he said. So I would think Ha Giang and I think places like Mu Cang Chai. I mean, you're sitting in the best seat in Hanoi. I mean, you can go kind of left or right or wherever. You've got plenty of choices up there because I think the scenery is definitely more extensive. There's more of it in the north than the south. And yeah, it's just got those jaw dropping vistas, really, aren't they? So you've got some projects coming up and I know everyone will want to see them. So tell us what you've got in store for yourself. Where are you going to head? 34:03 Alright Anton It's just I spend a lot of time on creating a video. I am a bit of a perfectionist and it doesn't really go well along with YouTube. They want people to post every week very regularly. I don't like that. And that's why my number of my subscribers are very low. But I stick to my strategy. I spent like two months, like one video because I also have a full- time job. So two months is one video. And I travel a lot. So I have a collection of places that I need to still process. Right now, working on one in Hoi An is going to be amazing. One of my favorite places. Yeah, I got just two more weeks to make it. Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's one of my most favorite places in Vietnam. And yeah, I made really nice footage there and a nice story. So that's yeah, that's in progress. But then I also have Nha Trang, I've got Ha Long Bay. What else? Well, in Thailand, Penang in Malaysia. Well, Thailand. I'm going to make a video about Bangkok Hotel. There's like a really strange and unusual hotel. It's called The Atlanta. And it's like really old. It's like one of the oldest hotels in Bangkok. And I stayed there for like four days. I just was running around. It's outstanding. It's got like the oldest swimming pool hotel in Bangkok. It's called The Atlanta. And they kept the design and style. I feel like it's still very, very old, but very well maintained. Then Koh Samui. 35:43 Kerry Newsome So there's about like six or seven videos waiting, waiting to be edited. I can understand. What about places like the Mekong Delta? And you've got Can Tho, Con Dao Islands, Phu Quoc? 35:54 Alright Anton Been to Phu Quoc, it's nice, but at that time I didn't have my drone. So I'll definitely go there again because it's such an easy island to get to. And it's just so nice and relaxing. Con Dao, I haven't been there yet. It's in my plans. So when I go there, I'll definitely… The same thing with the Mu Cang Chai. I haven't been there yet. That's just one of the ideas where I want to reach at some point in the future. Because Vietnam has so much to offer. It's unbelievable. I lived in Malaysia before this for three years and it's great. It's awesome. But then one of the drawbacks is that the number of the places where you can go is kind of limited. Like in Peninsular Malaysia, there would be maybe eight spots where you can go. Approximately. Yeah, nice. But then Vietnam has over 20, 30 places that are just amazing. And that's partially why I'm in Vietnam. I left Malaysia during the Covid period and everything was very restricted and closed. So I couldn't really travel much. So I headed to Vietnam because I got all these opportunities to travel to Hanoi and North. 37:18 Kerry Newsome It's so beautiful. And I mean, you haven't mentioned Sapa. Have you been to Sapa yet? 37:22 Alright Anton Yeah, once. It was it was actually kind of funny story because I did this trip to Sapa in 2019 just before Covid and it was the year when I bought my motorbike. So I got my motorbike. I started driving motorbike for the first time in my life in Malaysia. And I was like, cool. Now I know how to ride a motorbike. So I had a long holiday in December, like one month. And I thought, cool, I'm going to do a trip across Vietnam from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh on my own. And then my friends were like, yeah, can you really get through? No, this, you know, like, no, it's not safe. I don't know? And I was very enthusiastic, but then I decided, OK, fine, fine. OK, I'm going to do Sapa. So I decided to do Sapa trip on my own, my first trip. And it was it was hardcore because it's a long way. It's like over 300 kilometers and I'm not experienced. So, I was I was naive. I thought I would get from Hanoi to Sapa in one go. And like everything's going to be cool because I did some trips in Malaysia. But Malaysia and Vietnam are very, very different. Yeah, like Malaysia is the highway. So you can go like 110 kilometers per hour. And it's easy. It's safe because the roads are built for that. You can go 140, 150. It's just straight. And, you know, there's a lot of space for manoeuvre. Vietnam, like, no, 60 feels dangerous. And so, yes, I had to stop in the middle, like in Yen Bai, because it was too much. And then I had my first motorbike accident there. I fell and I slipped. And, yeah, I got a little bit bruised. And like it was just, you know, first time experience in my life. Like, oh, my goodness, what am I going to do? And I fell. My bike wouldn't stop. My knee was bruised. And there was this Vietnamese guy who just ran to me and helping me. Like, I put on bandages, clean my wounds, like do stuff. And I was like, oh, well, and he wouldn't speak English at all. Like we were just, you know, trying to exchange with gestures. And I like want to offer some money because he helped me a lot. He checked my bike, you know, because I was in a bit of a shock. And when you fall, the hands were trembling and he was so kind. And he's still like, go there, go there, fix your bike. And they fixed my bike. And then it was it happened just, you know, there's this bottleneck road on the way to the winding road. So just I fell right at the beginning of it. So I fell, got injured, bruised, but then I still had to go all the way up. 40:00 Kerry Newsome And especially you're probably in shock and you're riding that bike. Oh, my goodness. Oh, I know people have very adventurous ideas about with motorbikes, but I've heard too many bad stories that, you know, and especially that trip that you're talking about from Hanoi down to Ho Chi Minh. Oh, my gosh, that is fraught with danger. I don't think I know anybody that's done that trip that hasn't ended off the bike at some point, because, as you say, 60 kilometers is fast in some of those areas and the roads not all the best. So when you got to Sapa, was it worth it, like in your mind, did it kind of meet expectations? 40:28 Alright Anton . It was strange. So like I reached it and I reached it really late, exhausted. And, you know, again, I was like it was my first trip in Vietnam on my own. Super naive. I was like, yeah, it's going to be cool. I like these kind of holidays. But again, like now I'm more experienced and now I kind of know what to expect and what to look into. But then, yeah, so I got injured and I didn't book a hotel. I didn't do anything. I was I didn't I didn't do research. I didn't do anything. I just like, yeah, let's go and see how it goes. So I get there and it's cold. It's like there are all these construction sites and everything. And I get into a hotel and it's freezing. There's like no insulation, no central heating. I'm shaking because, you know, like my bruises and everything and the water is cold. It was like, oh, this is a disaster. And I didn't like that sound. It was like, no, no. So I started Googling. Finally, I decided to check on the internet. So what's good? And then I then I Google this place. I think it's a village down from Sapa, basically like 30 minutes ride a motorbike. Motorbike again was exciting. So I decided to go there. So I get on the bike, go down. The road is terrifying. It's just muddy road. And, yeah, I was I was scared. I was so scared. I was thinking my worst fear was that whatever starts raining because this muddy road was dry. So I could get through. But if it is wet and I know I was injured, so I was thinking, wow. It's I was terrified. But that village was amazing because it's located in the valley. And so these huge mountains are round the waterfalls and fields. It is so beautiful, so quiet, so peaceful, you know, and just, you know, it's a village. So everything's kind of simple. You just walk around and go for a little hike. Most of the time, I we're just like in my hammock and just staring at the mountains. And it was that was enough that that was perfect. 42:45 Kerry Newsome I was thinking about your bike trip up to Ban Gioc, I'm not saying that right, either. 42:51 Alright Anton The big waterfall that's on the Chinese border there right at the top. I mean, to this waterfall that you mentioned, I think it's said like “Bunzop” but it's because northern and southern accents are different. So in the south, they'll pronounce in the one way in the north and another way. But when you go to the very north, the border, they'll have some different accents. It's very confusing. But yeah, that waterfall. Yeah, yeah, it's really beautiful. I'm a little bit concerned about flying my drone there because it's right on the border with China. So actually, I think it might be really easy to lose the drone. I have seen people filming with drone there and flying just, you know, around the waterfall. But I feel it might be dangerous. And I heard people were asking not to fly a drone. I couldn't understand why, because, I mean, just across the river, there's Chinese border, you can see all those Chinese walking around. And yeah, but I made a video about it. It was I was really lucky because it's in the middle of the covid outbreak. There was like a little break, like a month break when they eased the restrictions and just got a taxi and went there and was empty. Like the video about it is amazing. It's my channel, too. But any last minute tips for my drone flyers that come to Vietnam? Like when you're filming mountains or buildings, well, OK, let's say mountains. Don't fly over the mountain and behind. That's one of the things that I just need to remember. Like I when I lift off, I want to be like in the middle, like in the valley. And then I fly around the valley. Then the connection doesn't get cut off. But if you see a beautiful mountain and decide to fly above, then it's very easy to lose the drone. I had a couple of these nerve wrecking experiences when the connection goes away. And then normally, normally the screen goes black, but it doesn't mean that you have lost control of your drone, so you can also see like in the corner, there'll be like a small map that shows you where is the drone. You can actually see the drone still follows your controls. So it means like the broadcast has been interrupted, but you still have the control of the drone. So in this case, I'll just turn around, go up and then go back as fast as possible. Yeah, that would be better up to try to regain connection and then return because you still usually have control and then there is automatic. That's always my side card. And you can set the. Yeah, but you need to set the altitude because if you set like 50 meters, it means it will go up to 50 meters and then fly and then land. It's like 20 meters. Yeah, you'll go to 20 meters and then ram into the mountain. So you have to think like what's around. I would not so nice fly like in Hoi An. And I would know that there is not a single building that is taller than 30 meters. It's just very low rise. So I could fly that this is my return point would be like 40. So I know it's even if I lose it. 45:47 Kerry Newsome Yeah, it's a good feature of the of the drone that automatic home button. They should have one installed for everybody on whatever they do on automatic home button. Thank you very much for coming on, Anton. I've loved talking with you and I'm hoping everyone listening has got a few handy tips so they don't either crash into mountains, lose their drone, but still have a wonderful time droning in Vietnam. 46:17 Alright Anton . Thanks a lot for having me, Kerry. It was a great pleasure. It was lovely to talk to you. Alright Anton Danang Video - https://youtu.be/ifTbSl3mgAA Alright Anton Ninh Binh video - https://youtu.be/-z4MNMApXmw Alright Anton Cao Bang – Ban Gioc Waterfall - https://youtu.be/8L0Q0El8mOw

S4-01 Art in Vietnam What About Vietnam S4-1 Art in Vietnam – storytelling at its best Kerry Newsome: 00:01 Xin Chào and welcome to "What About Vietnam ! ". One of the topics that doesn't get covered very much about Vietnam is art, and it really should, because it is one of the experiences you're going to get to have when you come to visit Vietnam. Art in Vietnam is everywhere. And as you're going to hear in this program, there are a lot of expressions of art, and it has evolved over time. And we're going to really take it back 100 years and talk about just how Vietnam has developed in the art world. 00:39 I'm joined today with Bridget March. She is a Prolific artist herself. She, originally, trained as a freelance product designer. She became a senior lecturer at Leeds University of Art and moved to Saigon in 2012. And that was really to fulfill a lifelong ambition to be a full-time artist. She was inspired to stay, and she went on to then produce three books about Hội An, Sapa and Saigon. And those books include some of her art and sketches. She has had seven solo exhibitions of paintings and drawings in Vietnam galleries, international hotels. She's also gone on to curate the fabulous art space at Anantara Hội An Resort in Hội An. 01:36 She has her own gallery. And she's very much about supporting local artists in their endeavors and their journey. She gives up the best galleries that you have to see and go to in Vietnam. So that's going to be in your show notes on our website "whataboutvietnam.com ", you can make arrangements to go to her gallery when you visit Hội An. And those details will also be included in the show notes and the transcript. See below. So, make sure you check that out. 02:12 We're in for a great show. And I think we're going to learn a lot about art. And certainly, I hope it's going to give you a greater appreciation of it in Vietnam. Let's welcome Bridget March to the program. Good morning, Bridget March. Welcome to "What About Vietnam". Bridget March: 02:32 Good morning, Kerry. It's very nice to be here. Kerry Newsome: 02:36 It's been a while in the baking, hasn't it? I'm so delighted to have you on the show. But two years into COVID, here we are. And I've finally got you on the show. So, I'm very excited. We're going to be talking art today. And I think for people who are coming to Vietnam and get the chance to see some art in Vietnam, I think it'd be really handy for them to know what they're looking at, what they're seeing and maybe some background. So, I'm going to ask you, Bridget, if we can start just talking about a little bit of history of art in Vietnam, and just what people can expect to see when they come. Bridget March: 03:23 Sure. I remember when I first came to Vietnam, 13 years ago, I was lucky enough to go to the Hanoi Museum of Art. And in fact, that's where I fell in love with Vietnam, because it's chronologically organized. And I felt I was seeing the whole story of Vietnam in pictures. And some of it wasn't easy to understand, because it's so different from western art. So, some of the landscapes are a bit strange. But in fact, they are representational mountains, are about reaching to heaven. Rivers are about pathways in your life. And you will always see that the people within these landscapes are tiny, really tiny. And that's because it represents men's very small place in the universe. So, they're very different to like quite magical, and the Vietnamese and Asian person can stare at one of these paintings for a long time for an hour and actually meditate about these things, very different from Western art. Kerry Newsome: 04:40 And I think, that is really worth mentioning because there are aspects of religion in that philosophy of hope, aspirational aspects, and sometimes as a Westerner, we come in, we blow into the country, we get off the bus or whatever, and we're thrown on a tour. And then somebody says, "We're going to this gallery. “We walk in, and we see these pictures. It would have been really handy for someone to just give me some context. And I think those words that you've just shared with us now helps a lot. Can we go into the actual art forms, I guess, as in lacquer art or silk paintings, things like that. Can you talk to us about that? Bridget March: 05:38 Sure. So, the traditional art forms, in this part of Asia starts with black ink, which is used in representational landscape paintings, and calligraphy. And the calligraphy here is very much the same as it is in the Arab nations, where the calligraphy is also a meditation. It's not necessarily that you think it's beautiful, but you meditate on the words or the meanings. And they're like meditations in your day, remind us to be good and thoughtful and all that sort of stuff. 06:24 Then there is lacquer art. And the lacquer comes from spindly little trees, it's collected in very much the same way as rubber. So, the trees are scored and the lacquer drips out. The lacquer in each nation depends on its climate, just like wine. And in Japan or Korea, the trees are a bit fatter, and the lacquer flows more freely. The trees in Vietnam are really skinny. And they actually collect the lacquer in seashells strapped to the stems, the trunks of the trees, and so little comes off. And it's said by the practitioners that the Vietnamese lacquer is the most difficult to work with. And it's highly prized. 07:21 Most lacquer painters in Vietnam, using Japanese, Korean or Chinese lacquer, and finding practitioners using Vietnamese lacquer is rare. There are some masters in Hanoi. And we actually have a world specialist in that art form living in central Vietnam. Things like watercolor and oil painting did not come until the French arrived. These were imported from Europe. 07:58 And, in my very limited experience in this, as you well know. I've been gone on a world discovery tour with art in Vietnam. I discovered lacquer art and the basic artwork skill very late. And to the end that I actually bought some during COVID in Australia at a gallery that unfortunately had to close. But what I got to see just before COVID actually, in Saigon, was them crushing the eggshells, the pearl, etc., to raise a different surface to the lacquer art. So, you can buy urns and you can buy beautiful bowls, etc. But the actual paintings or pictures I bought were abstract. But they have these beautiful insets of pearl and different shells, etc. Can you give some explanation of that artwork skill and how long it takes to create one of these because I've been told that many layers upon layers, it can take a while? 09:31 No matter where you are in the world. Artists, hundreds of years ago had to use the materials that were available to them. And the lacquer was the medium which carried the color. So, they would take some yellow clay, mix it with the lacquer to make a nice sort of yellow ochre color. They would crush beetles to get the red cochineal, the red blood from them, mix it with the lacquer to create a red color. And other stones or powders, herbs would be crushed and mixed with the lacquer. 10:19 Now, one of the colors that they were not able to produce was white. So, they took chickens eggs, or ducks’ eggs, I should say. They took ducks eggs, because they're so white and crushed them. And depending on how finely you powder them, you can either create something that looks a bit like crazy paving, so it's textured, or you can crush it very finely to get a kind of powdered finish. But of course, it's calcium. It doesn't make a very smooth white. So, the white is always slightly textured and some artists like it to be more textured, larger lumps of shell than others. 11:11 And they also used mother of pearl because it glitters, and it's been used in many different ways. Sometimes paper is actually coated with the mother of pearl shell to make it glittery. In lacquer paintings, it tends to be used in quite large chunks. To decorate precious items in the painting like a lady's fan, or an emperor's hat would be highlighted with mother of pearl, or mussel shells, different shells, oyster shells, mussel shells, all give different types of mother of pearl. So, this is just using local materials to create the colors you need. 11:59 The base of the painting is clay. These days, the layer of clay is laid down onto plywood. Years ago, it would have been on to a stable dry hardwood. And you take about a three-millimeter layer of clay to get a smooth surface onto which you can apply your color. Whether you're using eggshell or mother of pearl, which is quite lumpy, you actually have to carve a small hole in the clay to inlay the eggshell of the mother of pearl. So, the surface of the painting is smoother. It is really labor intensive. And when you have put all your colors down, you then grind the surface. And depending on how much you grind it, you can reveal colors underneath, or leave colors on the surface. And the finer the abrasive that you use to polish the lacquer, the shinier it will be. 13:15 It can take days to dry the lacquer in between every coat. And it only works in semi tropical and tropical climates because it dries in humidity amazingly. So, this does not work in a climate like the UK, Northern Europe, it just doesn't work. You have to have humidity to "dry" or "cure" the lacquer. Kerry Newsome: 13:52 And as I got to speak to one of the craftsmen in a factory in Saigon, as I said back in 2019. And he went to great efforts to explain the layers and how many layers it may require to get the right finish that they want to achieve. And sometimes for us, when we're buying lacquer art, we can get the cheaper versions which have only got maybe, one or two layers so it comes off very easily versus the craftsman who has gone to the extra time and effort and labor to increase the layers to increase the life, I guess, of the said item. Is there any truth to that? Bridget March: 14:53 Totally. Kerry Newsome: 14:54 Oh, thank God for that. [laughter] Bridget March: 14:57 The cheapest lacquer Arts, which are just a few dollars are not even using lacquer. They're using commercial paint like domestic gloss paint. It has nothing to do with lacquer at all. And then there's the mid-range lacquers, where they're using traditional materials, but maybe using the cheaper Korean and Japanese lacquers. And only, as you say, using 1, 2 or 3 layers. The quality of a piece of lacquer work is always reflected in the price. So, if you're looking at a work of art, which is over $6,000, you're looking at the real thing. And if it's costing less than that, then you're looking at something that is made from less expensive materials, a quicker process. And at the very lowest level where you're paying $10 for something, these are just mass produced for the tourist market, they call them lacquers. But they're not even lacquers. Kerry Newsome: 16:18 I bring that up, because I've often got thrown that line with a group where we've talked about lacquer art, and they've said, "Gosh, I saw these ones in this gallery, and they wanted, I don't know, it was hundreds of US dollars. And I think I saw the same thing in the markets for about $25." And, you know, I'm hesitant to reply because I need to be careful what I say there. But yes, one is closer to the real thing than the other, can we talk a little bit more? I really want to delve into your history also in Vietnam, and where you're sitting now in Hội An and I want to expand a little bit more to the other art forms to ceramics, and pottery and maybe even to the lanterns, and some of the other art that people can just keep their eyes peeled for because there are some beautiful aspects to those. And I would love people to know about that. Can we throw that into the mix? Bridget March: 17:33 Yeah, you can. I think it's important to define the difference between art and craft. So, craft is where something is reproduced again and again, it's handmade. It takes a great deal of skill. But it's reproduced again and again. And you'll see that in the beautiful embroideries that you'll find in the ethnic villages done by the older women. They're really painstaking. And a jacket, a skirt, a good quality object will take two years to make because they grow the plants that make the fibers that make the weaving that make the dye. 18:32 And it's a very long process. But they're reproducing the same designs generation on generation. And you can identify exactly the village from which somebody comes by the patterns they reproduce. And this is craft. It's a traditional craft. Art, however, is when an artist is producing something original, something conceptual, a new idea, a new design, not just a variation on something that's been done for a long time, like lotus blossoms, all of ours, but actually something original. So, I would like really to talk about the artists that produce these things rather than the craft sort of produced. 19:35 And at the moment, there are actually very few artists working in ceramics. But those who do have their work exhibited all over the world. And at the end of this, I would like your listeners to have access to a list of 10 or 15 artists, the kind of work they produce and where they might see their work. In Hội An, there's a lot of traditional crafts, the ceramics. We have a ceramic village, there's woodworking. And amongst the woodworkers, there are artists, and there are craftsmen. And some of the artists who are carving things like jackfruit wood produce the most amazing work and they can be commissioned; you can actually ask them to do something unique for you. And they offer for sale, some unique works of art. 20:44 Alongside that they're producing highly skilled craft work, which is reproduced and available for sale. The lanterns. This is a craft. Lanterns are produced all over Asia. And there's a kind of a story that goes with them, that it was the fishermen who were creating fish traps using bamboo, combined with the tailors who had the silk, they put them together. And they were covering fish traps with silk to create lanterns inside which there would be some oil or candle perhaps. And the lanterns in central Vietnam, I can't speak for what's going on in Hanoi and Saigon. But in central Vietnam, the trend is moving to much more patterned lanterns. They're becoming much prettier. And there is some hand painting going on. And again, you can commission somebody to hand paint something for you. But it's a craft rather than art. Kerry Newsome: 22:05 That's a great story about the lanterns. My God! I didn't know that. That is terrific too. And I can see that that's feasible, there's some logic to that. Absolutely. Bridget, I want to take you back now to your arrival into Vietnam, in 2012, into Saigon. We've talked about the fact that you had this as a big wish on your list to come to Saigon to further your own artistic journey. Can you talk to us about that? What was some of the significance of you coming to Vietnam and reasons, I guess? And also, where was Vietnam at in the art sphere or the art world at that time? We're talking Saigon, 2012. Bridget March: 23:05 No, really not that long ago. Although quite a lot has changed in the art world. Kerry Newsome: 23:09 Yes. Just a bit. Bridget March: 23:11 Yeah. Anyway, I suffered from the same as many aspiring artists when I was young. It's a bit like, "Don't let your daughter go on the stage, Mrs. Brown. Don't let your daughter become an artist. Don't let your son become a dancer. Don't let them join a rock band. It's going to end in failure." Kerry Newsome: 23:42 It's not a real job. Bridget March: 23:42 You're going to starve, you know. Anyway, so I went to university, I did design, and I was a successful product designer for 20 years. And then I ended up as a senior lecturer in an independent art school in northern England. And at the same time, I'm painting, I'm etching, drawing. I'm getting my work into galleries. And I really want to give up the day job and be a full-time artist. But the truth is that in the Western world, unless you are independently wealthy or have a wealthy patron, it's really almost impossible to give up the day job because the cost of living is so high. And a new artist needs to build up a portfolio of work. And even if you're brilliant and amazing and you have a famous patron and you've got a million dollars, it's still going to take you three or four years to become established. I didn't have that privilege. 24:54 I came to visit a friend in Vietnam, and she suggested that I come here and spend a bit of time, I thought, well, I could take a year out. And I could do that. But 10 years later, I'm still here, and I could afford to do it in Vietnam, the cost of living is much lower. And because the art scene was still emerging, after years of oppression. Western artist arriving and doing watercolors and publishing books of sketches and so on, was quite a novelty. And I, very quickly had a little bit of success, enough to establish me, and I was interviewed by TV stations and all kinds of publicity. 25:47 At that time, Vietnamese artists were still being censored by the culture police. And if they weren't doing kind of portraits and flowers and landscapes, if they were trying to say something a bit more conceptual, then the culture police would land on them and insist that the work was destroyed. I worked in a gallery in Saigon for a short time and was familiar with the activities of other galleries in the city. And it was very regular for exhibitions to be visited by the culture police on the opening night. And they would come in and they would take pieces of work off the wall, or insist that they be covered with brown paper, because they felt that they were not fit for public consumption. Or they offended the government's view of the way Vietnam should be represented. 26:55 For example, there was an exhibition of a young photographer, Vietnamese photographer, who was doing fabulous photography among some of the older buildings in Saigon, really great color, contrast light. But they covered the whole of his exhibition with brown paper, because they thought that it represented poverty. And that was not how Saigon wanted the world to perceive it. They didn't know that westerners coming into the country knew exactly where "Saigon was at that it was at a turning point in its life, it was turning from a third world city into a modern superstar. And this transformation and the remnants of the old city are considered very beautiful by westerners, who are interested in buying photography. A lot of that kind of thing was going on. My work was considered to be very safe, because I was doing nice little watercolors of lovely urban and countryside landscapes. And I became very popular because of that, and the authorities love me, because I've made Vietnam look very beautiful. 27:48 Kerry Newsome And I think, it's worth mentioning that because people, when they do get to look at a piece of art, are going to draw certain perceptions about what the story is behind it, let's face it. Good art, to me speaks to you. It has a story and there's something in that. And you're right, Vietnam is very big on making sure that they are seen by the world in a particular way, depending on, as you say, the culture police's perception at the time. I think, there has been an evolution that we are witnessing that Vietnam is becoming a little bit more open about sharing some of their not so good views of their countryside, or their history or their whatever. Because, it's about keeping it real also, for the rest of the world. Kerry Newsome: 29:28 History is not always going to look beautiful, it's going to have aspects of horror and pain and shame and destruction, but that would be every country possibly in the world. So, why would Vietnam be any different? However, moving on, you and I spoke earlier about the artists and the differences in three main cities being Saigon, Huế and Hanoi. Can you speak to that a little bit more, I found that really interesting? Bridget March: 30:01 Sure. So, prior to the French arriving, artists weren't just artisans or crafts people. And they would be reproducing beautiful works of art, for temples, for the homes of the wealthy, for government buildings, and so on. They were not really permitted or encouraged, or able to express themselves. It wasn't appropriate for people who created art, to have to produce conceptual art, or something that even identified the artist up until 100 years ago. And artists would sign their work with the name of the emperor, not with their own name. And there are still some beautiful works in Hội An, which assigned to this way. 31:14 For example, in the Cantonese assembly hall , in the old town, there is the most beautiful, vigorous dragon, which is constructed out of concrete and Broken China, a bit like the work that Gaudi does in Barcelona, exactly the same craft. And there's a signature on it, that the signature is the name of the emperor at the time. And we will never ever know the artist who developed the idea for this particular dragon. 31:56 So, when the French arrived, they wanted to bring with them some of the western art, music, dance architecture. And gradually, they established different schools where people could study this, the teachers initially were French. They also took some Vietnamese artists and crafts people back to France, to learn how to use some of the Western materials and to learn from European artists, music, art, fashion, and all the different arts, literature, poetry, and so on. And then these Vietnamese came back to Vietnam and were established in schools about the very first was in Saigon in 1903, something around that date. 32:56 The next one was in Hanoi. And the third was the most modern, which was I think, 1957 was in Huế. And each one of these schools developed its own way of interpreting the arts, because of the teachers who were working there, and Hanoi featured very much on technique. And Hanoi is still very well known for copy artists, they are brilliant, they can copy the Mona Lisa, almost perfectly. Because they're so skilled at manipulating the colors and the materials. They're fluent in that language. But they're not, there weren't anyway, so skilled at developing new concepts in art, or messages, or styles. In Saigon, they focus more on the technical arts, like graphic design, architecture, the kind of things that build a modern city. And of course, alongside that, came artists and a much more modern Western, and ultimately Americanized approach to producing art, fashion, design, literature. 34:26 Huế, is kind of somewhere in the middle, and out of the Huế School of Art have come some amazing colorists. The art has a very European feel about it, but it's fresh, it's uniquely Vietnamese and the use of color, the landscapes, the buildings, the interpretation of the environment. And, if you go in and out of enough galleries and you see the names and origins of enough artists, you can begin to see where they came from, which school they studied in, becomes clearer. Kerry Newsome: 35:05 Okay, so if I'm coming to Vietnam, and I really want to seek out some art that you've talked about, the kinds of work that we've discussed on the show today, where do my guests go? Where do they hit? Bridget March: 35:23 Alright, I've got a list. Kerry Newsome: 35:25 Excellent. I knew you would, Bridget. I was counting on that. I'll add that, just before you say anything. I want everyone to know that list will feature on the website, it'll have a link to the list on the show notes. So, whether you listen on iTunes, or Spotify or any of those, it'll always direct you back to where you can get that list. So, all yours now, Bridget, just so you know that list going to be there. Bridget March: 35:57 Okay, I think everybody knows, Asia can be really tricky, because you can't recognize what's authentic, and what is fake, what's a copy, and what's the real thing. So, it's important to know where to go. And I have a list which will direct your listeners to the three major public museums of art in Hanoi, Huế, and Saigon. And there's quite an interesting young contemporary art museum in Da Nang, that's worth a visit. But in addition to those, in each center, I'm offering what I know to be the best art galleries, if you're looking for the real thing. 36:54 Now, look, when you're visiting, when you're traveling, I've done the same. You're not necessarily looking for authentic works of art, you're just looking for something which is going to be a lovely souvenir of your visit. It might be something abstract, it might be a landscape, might be a portrait, and you'll find those. You can't help everywhere you go; you'll trip over those. And local artists usually have their work hanging out on the street outside their studios. It's not hard to find. But even when you go into an artist studio, you don't really know if the artist is producing original work, or whether he or she is actually reproducing the work that his grandfather did. All that some famous artists in Hanoi or Saigon produced 100 years ago, you have no idea. 37:43 So, you really need to go to some of the better art galleries, and they are in that list. My little gallery in central Vietnam is just about the only place in central Vietnam, which properly represents, offers a full service for local artists and visitors. My aim in the gallery is to support local artists, with the website, videos, interviews, you can come and talk to me about the art. I can arrange visits for you to meet the artists or even spend time with artists if you want to have an experience with them. A full-service gallery like mine, gives you the trust you need to spend a bit more than average on art. And I've listed similar places in "Hanoi and Saigon. And it's not easy. You need to know you're in the right gallery. If you're a collector, at least. Kerry Newsome: 38:57 Yes, and I think that is just such a great point because I don't know how many times, I've been kind of double checking myself to go, "Is this the real McCoy or is this just a really good copy shop or whatever." And I hate the fact that Vietnam gets called copy-copy. I think that really- that brand, that everything is copy-copy. I really want to do everything I can on this show to stamp that out. I'm not saying that there isn’t copy-copy stuff out there. 39:39 Of course, that's a reality. But to brand it totally that there aren't true artisans out there in Vietnam that are doing the most exquisite art and guess what, you're not going to get it for a nickel. People have said to me before, "I think Vietnam could get expensive." And I said, "Compared to what?" It's interesting, for a lot of people there is a, I guess a perception that they're always going to get something for a nickel or dime in Vietnam that they wouldn't pay that extra money for that beautifully designed dress, that's just a one-off piece of art that if you walk into a room, you are going to be a showstopper. 40:36 There's leather work, there is beautiful ceramics that. Yes, they're not nickel and dime stuff. And I've been to your gallery, I've always loved the work that you do, and more so probably the work that you do for artists, and to give them that platform because as you say, it's hard to find. And it's hard to find that authenticism. And it's that authenticism that you sell, mostly, I think, is the gift to us all. Bridget March: 41:12 So, I'll tell you now, my favorite places to visit. 1. Number one has to be the "Hanoi Museum of Art . It is large, it's well organized. It's amazing. The breadth, the variety of work is amazing. And you really learned something about Vietnam without having to read a book or a guidebook. It's all laid out before you in pictures. It's a story book. And all the different art forms are there, lacquer, oil, watercolor, silk, painting, ceramics, sculpture, and the collection there covers a period of about 1500 years. It's really great. It's great. And it's right in the heart of the most interesting part of the city very close to the famous temple of literature. And it's really easy to find it's very accessible. 42:23 2. My second most favorite place is the Museum of Art in Saigon . It's in the most gorgeous building in the middle of town near the central market. And again, it's arranged slightly differently, and it has a more contemporary feel than the Hanoi one. It's more colorful, there is more abstract stuff. There is some of that Russian brutalist stuff. There are bronzes and much more ceramics. It's a really lovely place to go. And it's not as big as the Hanoi Museum, you can do it in about an hour. 43:04 3. And my third is, absolutely, don't miss this one. This is just outside Huế. And it is the Lebadang Memory Space , and it is new. It has been architect designed, it's in the most beautiful hillside setting. The building itself will take your breath away. And inside is the story of the life of one Vietnamese artist who came originally from a village near Huế. And the work is fabulous. There are videos to sit and watch. It's an amazing place and it's got a great cafe and a gorgeous garden setting. So, those would be for me, the three, don't miss these. If you're interested in art, don't miss these three. And then if you've got a bit more time, have a look at the list that accompanies this and go exploring. Kerry Newsome: 44:15 Definitely. And I hope to see you Bridget in Hội An later this year, can't wait to catch up face to face. It's been a while. Thank you again for coming on the show and sharing your insights into art in Vietnam. Bridget March: 44:31 It has been totally my pleasure and it's really lovely to see you again, Kerry, after such a long time. Thanks. We speak about a list in the show of Bridgets favourite galleries, the blog listing those is here;- https://www.marchgallery-hoian.com/post/vietnam-s-contemporary-art-in-2022 The gallery details and all her social pages are here. Feel free to reach our directly. www.marchgallery-hoian.com FB: march harbour gallery Inst: March harbour gallery Pinterest: march gallery Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/march-gallery

09c8bf5a-9903-4573-9ce5-3306acfa70c2Discussing the broader challenges in travel planning Travelling to Vietnam part 3 - Things NOT always in a tour program Episode 16 S3-16 Things NOT always in a tour 00:00 / 14:32 The final episode in this series. A short episode to close out the series, I am again joined by Miquel Angel as we discuss the broader challenges of trip planning. “While time is in your hands” says my knowledgeable guest Miquel, it does take astute planning to get the best out of the regions within a restrictive 14 day trip, which was the basis of this series. This is a 3 -part series, so may I suggest you start with Part 1 to get the full benefit of my guest’s insights. Miquel further shares his take on places like Dalat, Phong Nha, Hanoi, Northern Highlands, Phu Quoc and Dalat. You will discover things you may not have thought possible to see in Vietnam, as they are not featured in your average program, like Tulips in Dalat and Bee farms in Phu Quoc. Because as he says “You cannot fit everything in." Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

f869da4e-5155-49cf-a089-fb57696dcfa9How much time to allow for a visit and to where. Travelling to Vietnam part 2 - How much time do you need Episode 15 S3-15 Travel time in Vietnam P2 00:00 / 32:21 In this Episode we explore the value of time on a holiday in Vietnam. This is part 2 - with Miquel Angel. While we discussed in Part 1, the aspects of travel opening up to 5 provinces from November 2021. In this Part 2, we expand the travel opening conversation and unpack the normal trip duration of 14 days, to see the main destinations. From this starting point we discover the highlights and lowlights impacted by how much time you have in each place. Miquel and I share many funny anecdotal experiences that are definitely impacted by how much time you have and how wisely you use that in each destination you go to. During the episodes (Part 2 &3) we flesh out the typical experiences of this 14 day trip and how they could be better managed if the focus was on particular regions ie The South, Central, Highlands and Northern regions. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S5-E17 - Motorbike riding tips in Vietnam S5-E17 - Motorbike riding tips in Vietnam Episode 17 S5-E17 - Motorbike riding tips in Vietnam 00:00 / 56:56 Welcome to another thrilling episode of "What About Vietnam"! Today, we’re hitting the brakes for a moment to give you an insider’s glimpse into the exhilarating world of motorbiking through this stunning country. Join us as we explore essential safety tips and uncover unforgettable routes that will make your journey truly remarkable! Key Points raised you won’t want to miss:- Safety First • Always wear a full-face helmet and for long roads bring your own gear • Get advice around the nuances of Vietnamese drivers – bike and car Licensing and Insurance • Vietnamese motorbike licensing required for legal driving • Fines for riding without a license • Proper insurance coverage is crucial Travel Options • Guided tours vs. self-guided adventures • Guided tour options for less experienced riders to Vietnam Best Routes and Experiences • Ho Chi Minh Highway for scenic views • Northern Vietnam's stunning landscapes • Exploring rural villages and fishing communities Practical Tips • Best times to travel in different regions • Packing essentials for long rides Guest Insights • Ben Mitchell shares expert advice on navigating Vietnam's roads. His years of riding and local knowledge is gold. • Chris Pantelli recounts his recent tour in northern Vietnam and shares with us his insights and new found passion for Vietnam. Whether you're an experienced rider or a curious traveller, motorbiking in Vietnam offers an unparalleled adventure. From the bustling cities to remote mountain passes, this mode of transport unlocks the true essence of Vietnam. Links to some tour companies, mentioned in the show Ben’s Top 3 motorbike Tour Companies - OnyabikAdventures in Hoi An - Easy Rider - - https://www.easy-riders.net/ - Adrenaline Rush Trail (ART) In Saigon - Cuong’s Motorcycle Adventures. Cường is the original offroad outfit and the true King Of The North Chris’s tour company mentioned:- ADV motorcycle tours and dirt bike travel - https://www.dirtbiketravel.com/enduro-motorbike-tours Self touring – You might like to check out https://www.vietnamcoracle.com/ Awesome maps and local advice many riders swear by. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S6-E8 Where should you go first in Vietnam < Back S6-E8 Where should you go first in Vietnam S6-E8 Where should you go first in Vietnam 00:00 / 20:57 Series 6 Episode 8 Question 8 Where should you go first in Vietnam? Where do you even begin with a country like Vietnam? It’s one of the most common questions I’m asked… and one of the hardest to answer simply. Because Vietnam isn’t just one destination. It’s a country of contrasts — north to south — where each region offers a completely different experience. In this episode, I take a step back from listing places… and instead guide you through a smarter way to think about your starting point. Because the real question isn’t just where you should go first — it’s how you want to experience Vietnam . What You’ll Discover in This Episode Why there is no single “best” place to start in Vietnam The key differences between North, Central and South Vietnam How your travel style should shape your own answer to this question Why trying to “see it all” can work against you How to match your time frame with the right regional approach The importance of pacing, connection, and flow in your trip Essentially, we take your desired experience of the country and match it to where you should visit first. If this question has been sitting in the back of your mind… this episode will help you move forward with confidence. Do you have a travel question or wish to give some feedback? You have 90 seconds. Click to read the voicemail recording policy Previous Next

A Travel Podcast featuring previous travelers to Vietnam as they share their insights with Podcast host Kerry Newsome. Find out about Vietnam from the people who have actually been there. WHAT ABOUT VIETNAM with Kerry Newsome Photo Credit - Gerard Gerhard Series 2 Series 1 Latest Episode S1 E11 Last Words for 2025 00:00 / 32:38 Series 3 Series 4 Xin Chao and Welcome to the No 1 Vietnam Travellers Podcast website Trip Planning Must Do adventure Sustainable/wellbeing special interest cultural foodie SPECIAL TRAVEL OFFERS Visa Entry Policy Guide 2022 SIGN UP for your FREE fortnightly WAV - Bulletin Receive Kerry's personal quick and easy read about all travel-related things in Vietnam. Including special offers, Covid updates, new episodes coming up, and just things to keep you in the loop. Yes. Sign me up Subscribe to What About Vietnam through your favourite channel Welcome to WhatAboutVietnam.com (WAV) as we like to call it! The place where you get to discover amazing traveller experiences in Vietnam Listen - to the "What About Vietnam" - Traveller Insights Podcast here or on your favourite channel. Search - by name of the episode, destination or experience to find the best Podcast, Blog, Transcript or Video to match your enquiry. Read - The Travel Podcast Transcripts and blogs about many different experiences you can enjoy in Vietnam. Save as a PDF or download to print. Watch - Our Trailer Videos on our NEW- YOUTUBE channel Reach out - Send us an email and let us know how we can help you with your travel enquiry. Let me and my guests be your personal guides, mentors, tutors, and fun experts. We all have a story to tell about traveling about, living there or working in Vietnam. Each episode has something for everyone. I hope you will come to know, love, and share this page and my podcast with others to help them discover the true beauty and wonder that is Vietnam. Kerry Newsome Hi, my name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host on the What About Vietnam Podcast. If you have a subject, destination or experience you would like to know more about, why not drop me a quick message here and I will do my utmost to get you the information you have requested. Thank you and I hope you enjoy the next show. Kerry What About Vietnam is proud to be a member of Auscham Vietnam - Australian Chamber of Commerce And many other channels Submit Thanks for submitting! Find out about sponsorship & advertising opportunities Become a guest on our podcasts Reach out to to Kerry, our podcast host

S5-5 - The famous Hai Van Pass experience: Insights from a seasoned traveller S5-5 - The famous Hai Van Pass experience: Insights from a seasoned traveller Episode 05 S5-5 - The famous Hai Van Pass experience: Insights from a seasoned traveller 00:00 / 30:13 When you start researching Vietnam for your holiday, especially if you have an interest in motorbike rides and scenic routes, it won’t take you long before you come across the famous Hải Vân Pass (Đèo Hải Vân) The Hải Vân Pass is a legendary motorbike route located in central Vietnam. This scenic route gained attention from the BBC and the Top Gear crew in 2008, further solidifying its reputation as a must-visit destination for motorbike enthusiasts and adventure seekers. The Hải Vân Pass is not only famous for its scenic beauty but also for its historical significance as it was a crucial route during the Vietnam War, connecting the north and south of the country. Today, it serves as a symbol of Vietnam's resilience and progress. To gain more insights into the Hai Van Pass, I had the opportunity to speak with Chris Moonie, a seasoned traveller and media professional. Chris has been living in Vietnam for over eight years and has explored the Hải Vân Pass multiple times. His firsthand experiences and deep understanding of the area make him an excellent source of information for anyone planning to visit this iconic route. Together, Chris and I explore all the ways you can experience this incredible route. And guess what? Traveling by motorbike isn't the only option, so there's something for everyone. Chris's journey to Vietnam began in 2013 when he visited Hoi An with his son. He fell in love with the country and its people, particularly the charm of Hoi An. Chris's connection to Vietnam deepened as he met a special lady during his visit, further cementing his decision to relocate to Hoi An. Since then, he has been living in An Bang, a small village that has transformed into a vibrant tourist destination just out of Hoi An. Overall, the Hải Vân Pass offers up Instagram heaven, however for me it is the unique stops along the way, such as the oyster farms and Dream Springs that make the Hải Vân Pass a super day’s excursion, and a must-visit destination for motorbike enthusiasts and those seeking to explore Vietnam's rich culture and history. In summary, the switch backs will set your heart racing but the views are next level! You can reach Chris here directly for information here - https://www.facebook.com/chrisminvietnam Watch this Video here - https://www.facebook.com/chrisminvietnam/videos/866528168426706/ Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S5-E27 Discovering Catholic Treasures of Vietnam S5-E27 – Discovering Catholic Treasures of Vietnam: Church Hunting in Ninh Binh and Nam Dinh Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. I'm your host, Kerry Newsome. And today we're stepping into the world you may not expect to find in Vietnam, the world of Catholic churches. I know it took me by surprise as well. On a recent journey through the North, I found myself genuinely surprised and deeply moved by the stunning architecture, peaceful presence and rich history of these churches. Some tucked away in the most unlikely places. You might be wondering how did Catholicism end up in Vietnam? Well, it dates back to the 16th century with Portuguese missionaries, but it was during the French colonial era, particularly the 19th and the 20th centuries, that Catholicism really took root. The French left more than just baguettes and grand boulevards. They left cathedrals, monasteries, convents, and a strong Christian presence that still lives on today. And you'll hear that in the stories that we tell. Today, about 7% of Vietnam's population identifies as Catholic, one of the largest Catholic communities in Southeast Asia. And while many associate Catholicism with the South, the North is full of hidden gems, quiet villages, with beautiful stone churches. As we were driving along the road, we could see the steeples, some over a hundred years old, where the faith and local culture intertwine in the most unique ways. I hope you'll join me and my guest as we go in search of churches, exploring their stories, their architecture, and the peaceful energy they bring to the vibrant and spiritual land of Vietnam. This show and my longer guest have had this in the works for a very long time. We've talked about exploring Northern Vietnam and certainly in the region of Ninh Binh and Nam Dinh in our search, would you believe, for churches. So you may have heard a previous episode that I did with her and we did mention it briefly and we did say look next trip we will definitely go in search for churches. null: So today I hope you'll welcome her to the program. Kerry Newsome: over the last 24-48 hours of exploring this area for churches. And I think you're going to really, really be surprised because I know, I hope I've captured my amazing face and expressions when I have seen these magnificent churches. So heart, please say hello. Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : Hello Kerry, hello everybody. Welcome and I'm so happy to indeed have this opportunity to go church hunting with Kerry Newsome. Kerry Newsome : Okay, alright, so a little bit of background to the trip and the beginning. So we of course started in Hanoi. And from Hanoi, we have engaged with a personal driver. And from my perspective as an international traveler, obviously as a foreigner, I think this was the best way to do it. Now, I have the advantage of her, and I have her for two reasons of enjoyment. One, she is extremely knowledgeable about these churches. And secondly, she has put some research into the churches that we are going to talk about. So she was able to speak to them with great fluency, and you're going to hear that as we go through the show. Plus, she can even use her Vietnamese tongue to be able to say the names and the districts and things like that. And of course, you know much better than me. and then a great company as I got to know her a little bit more and in our exploration with visiting the churches, just how lovely it was to find this part of Vietnam that I don't know, I'm not sure that many of you would think of Vietnam in this vein and think of I think Ham mentioned to me during the day that it's around about 80% of the population of Vietnamese that are actually Catholic and follow the Catholic Church. So it's still a very thriving religion in the country and as we discuss some construction stages and rebuilding and you just get a sense that the churches are very symbolic. Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : Meaning that I'm not even a Catholic, but me being brought up in Hanoi and have been to the Hanoi church, the Hanoi Cathedral, and seeing the splendor, the beauty of it, I eventually got interested to know more about the church. And I have to admit that I didn't really understand the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism up to I was quite a young adult. So Northern Vietnam, where I come from, is about Catholicism. In the provinces that we visited this time with Carrie, Nam Dinh, and Ninh Binh, are the cradle of Christianity, specifically Catholicism in Vietnam. And the first church that we visited is the Bùi Chù Cathedral. And Bùi Chù Diocese is the longest serving and one can say it is like truly the cradle of Portuguese missionaries who came to Vietnam and started the dioceses there. Bui Chu Cathedral used to be, it had a 150 years history, it used to be quite run down. And the fathers at Bui Chu were worried before COVID about it being the risking to collapse anytime. So despite all the old history and the splendor of it and all the non-stop discussion with architects, they actually had to make the painful decision to take down and build a new one. So when Carrie and I visited this time, We actually see the mostly completed new cathedral built, I think, mostly to the same exact design and decoration as the old one. It's beautiful and it sits in a majestic area. And the people, the workers, the contractors who are working there, were beaming with pride about what they are doing and they are completing. And they told us that the grand opening of the new cathedral, Bùi Chù Cathedral, is going to be sometime next year, 2026. But as soon as August this year, masses and services could be started to be conducted inside the church again. And for visitors who come to Nam Dinh to see the beauties of the cathedrals and churches there. I think if you had to, if you can plan to be on a weekend, it would be wonderful because you wouldn't see the masses, you wouldn't see the churches as a community center with activities, with all the living actions in there, and it is actually seeing it is, in a way, is also as interesting as seeing those churches and cathedrals just as like old wood relics or old building architectures. So that is something that both Carrie and I were very happy to see, including we were able to speak to the people around and hear them expressing their joy and pride of the cathedral that they are contributing to. Kerry Newsome: And you know it was intriguing for me to learn during the journey that Hart was saying that you know we were spotting churches on the road like we were driving along and we would see the the churches and the steeples. The spires. Yeah, the spires. And it was like every couple of miles in some places. And I think, what did you say, you said there's about two churches? Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : Yes, so the density and the frequency of you spotting churches in Nam Dinh, especially, is so much that it's almost like two churches per village. To be admittedly, not all villages in Nam Dinh are Christian and Catholic churches, villages, but they have a very dense areas, almost like whole districts, where the Catholic population is so dense and so long-serving that you do have two churches per village. And it's such a big fun because it is literally church hunting because we will see two churches to the left and three churches to our right and it is like oh like to trying to see which one is bigger, which one is more beautiful, which one has a more interesting bell tower, that kind of thing. Kerry Newsome : And as we're going along, I was like, oh look, there's another one, and Carrie, you missed this one. And I was like, you know, my head was on a swivel. Spinning. Just, I was, because I think Once again, going into this trip, obviously I had the headset to look for churches, but they would be easy to dismiss if you were just taking the journey to get from Hanoi to Nam Dinh or to Ninh Binh, because this is the area that we are in. Do not keep your eyes open to this. And what was lovely about this cathedral in particular, the father that was there. Unfortunately my French is very poor, as poor as my Vietnamese. So Hart did a great job to sort of say hello and tell the father about what we were doing. But we made the comments about the construction and some of the decisions to make it all look perfectly new and all the rest building and obviously with that age and sure it is destruction and it can't be sustainable but it shows the history you can see the history and the brickwork and what is left so we were able to wander around the grounds we weren't able to actually go inside because of the construction but it began We went on a little bit further and we went on to explore the Basilica. As you would know of the Basilica, it is recognised by the church as an official part of their, of the religion and recognised by the Pope and all the rest of it. So over to you Hap. Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : Yes, so we have four basilicas in Vietnam, two in the north, one in central Vietnam, and one is right there in the center of Saigon. So it is actually for you to find out more about the four basilicas, but this time Carrie and I, we were able to visit Phú Nhai Basilica, and it is I think number two or number three largest Catholic churches in Vietnam. And Phu Nhai Basilica is also famous because it appeared in many films and documentaries in Vietnam. And when you are either in Bui Chu Cathedral or Phu Nhai Basilica, you would be easily thinking that you are not in Vietnam. The Gothic architecture, all the details, all the design and decoration, all the bas-relief on the walls surrounding the basilica are European, are so like, even like Greek in some ways. So it is kind of intriguing to to look further and see rice fields and some very non-Vietnamese edifice being there. And the Basilica is wonderful in the sense that it is truly the center of that community and we were able to walk around and children running around and families next door to the basilica, creating beautiful bonsais and, you know, leaving cross using like ornament trees and plants. So all those smaller details add to the living beauty of Basilica in a thriving community. And I'm sure that many visitors could also, we would recommend you also to walk around and many of the houses actually open and people are very welcoming. people to come in and whether you are a Catholic like them or you are not, like in my case, they would be like very, very willing to tell you about the basilicas, the importance of it in their community. Kerry Newsome: Was that the one where we went to the very elaborate houses? Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : We did, we did. It's actually next door. Yes, next door. Kerry Newsome: Because the grounds were immaculate. They were well maintained. The bonsais were beautifully crafted. Hannah tells me that the area is well known to have bonsai masters who do take great care in looking after the bonsais because they are everywhere. And what was crazy and kind of doing my head in a little bit is that you can be forgiven for thinking, am I still in Vietnam? This looks and feels like it could be somewhere in Italy because the craftsmanship is Gothic, is Roman, is Catholic in every sense of the word. So what you are seeing in some of the statues and some of the engravings and some of the architecture. There's nothing that they have adapted to make it look Vietnamese. It's the other way. It's made to look very, very, very Catholic and obviously religious. Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : I really hope that since we asked Vietnam Stats to have the representative of the Pope residing in Hanoi since 2022, one day the representative of the Pope would be able to come and visit this magnificent basilica around the country. Kerry Newsome: We moved on from the basilica and we went to another church. and I got to have a really good walk around this one, and I'll leave it to you, Ha, to give a little bit of context to, is it Kien Lao? Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : Kien Lao, yeah. Actually, we stayed there a little bit too short time. You flew the, yeah? Yeah. But I think we, since we, you going to do that but you know with the flycam was it good enough to null: imagery I was able to capture using a small drone. Kerry Newsome: I'll be able to show you just how magnificent it is but we kind of got chewed up with time with a little bit of technology issues but Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : So we went to Kien Lao Church, which is beautiful and special in the sense that we were able to go inside and the acoustics as well as the lighting inside the church is just mesmerizing. It's just so captivating. And we are not in a very like sunny day, but the light inside, outside, inside the church makes me feel very special. And that is one thing that makes me wanting to go back to the Catholic churches all the time, because I can see the harmony of the light and the beauty of the the sound of the acoustic inside when we step inside a church. So it is really special when thinking that those churches being built like 100 years ago, and the craftsmanship and the people who built them at that time already must, in the countryside of Vietnam, already mastered. the engineering that makes the light and the acoustics work so wonderfully, almost like in any other Catholic churches elsewhere in Europe. Kerry Newsome: Was this the one where the children were singing and we caught the children? Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : Yes, it was. Kerry Newsome: That was such a lucky chance. That was so beautiful. They were so enthusiastic and maybe I made sure that they kind of knew that I was filming them because I thought they would sing to that knowing that I was doing some filming. But it was just lovely. And then we walked around and there was the pulpit stair, that was the one with the staircase up? Yes, yes. That was just incredible. Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : Stunning, isn't it? For visitors, I think if you can time your time to Kien Lao Church, or like some of those bigger churches, at after 11 in the morning, at around before lunchtime, I think you have a very good probability catching those children learning, children's choir. practicing singing chanting in the church because that is when they came back from their morning school and they would have church class hours quickly. So we were very lucky that in the morning we hear the children singing and the afternoon we hear another wonderful chanting, yes. Kerry Newsome: next church and this one was very, very different. In fact, Halloween has been referred to this church and she'll explain a little bit about that. Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : we went to Hung Nghia Church, which is not too far away from Kien Lau Church. And in the past, it was like dark and reddish color, which is very striking among the Vietnamese lush green rice field and everything. But this time when we visited it, it's painted, being painted, yes, dark black, and in another striking way, because some of the decoration details are intentionally, I think, painted red and white, and so, and the contrast is striking, and it is a super big complex of a church, so I thought they are going to use it for filming of some Halloween story, but I asked the people around, the locals, and they said no, no, no. They are serious about keeping it officially in this appearance. So it is like painting dark black with red windows and decoration details in white. So it's kind of, really out of this world and In a few months time in few months time yes And Kerry Newsome: It doesn't have too much of a surrounding area that you would want to spend time with. You just need to add it into the trip to just see the striking difference against the setting of Vietnam rice fields and all of that area. But I do want Hutt to talk a lot about the next stop. have an experience there that we didn't expect. It was at dusk. So we did this on a Friday, which is probably, Hartley's going to say probably the weekend is probably better, but it will be busier. So we got to experience a lot of these without any big crowds. There was no see that kind of experience in these places. So, you know, it is a journey very personal and I think for those of you who do follow the faith, you know, you would go with that mindset. It's not a touristy kind of experience and I don't actually want it to be. I do not want big buses rolling up at these places, but I do want you to know about them, so that if you do want to take this personal journey like I did, and not be fed out of curiosity that in a country where over 90% of the population is Buddhist, to find in our thriving Catholic communities that exist and and are there with these magnificent churches you know you kind of have to see it to believe it but this particular cathedral is the setting just let me try and paint this picture before I leave it was like about 5 p.m and it was just coming into dusk so you can imagine this over to you so you can talk through our total experience including some of the acoustic experience. Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : So Kerry and I saved the best for last because in the afternoon we crossed the borders from Nam Dinh province to Ninh Binh province and we visited a hidden treasure the Choson Monastery. It is a functioning monastery. It's a little bit far away. It is actually next to Dao Mountain. And the driver was also a little bit unsure of how to find that place. And certainly there are no busloads of tourists. It is a quiet, tranquil place. It is a gothic monastery just like you are stepping in a Harry Potter world. It is so beautiful and well kept with minimal restoration, I would say. So you really have to see it in order to be stunned by the Gothic architecture against the beauty of Ninh Binh mountains with a magnificent garden with the underground caves and all the immaculately manicured lawns and bonsai. And we were so lucky that the chapel was opened and the monks who lived there, trained there, studied there, came in and did a wonderful afternoon chanting. Again, as you might know, I come to those places because I admire the acoustics. And this time, of course, it didn't disappoint me. The acoustics in this beautiful location and looking a little bit out to see the sunset, the dusk, it's like unbelievable, unbelievably surreal. Choson Monastery, as I mentioned, it's going to be 90 years old next year, and they have been a functioning monastery with practicing monks all the time, and they are very thoughtful to make it available and accessible to the public. gradually, because I have visited that place maybe 15 times. So the first few times when I came there, I actually had to call in advance, ask for permission from the father to come in. And then eventually they open it like one, two days per week. And now it looks to me that they are not like open for massive tourism, but they do open and they do welcome the guests. And it is pretty far away. It is pretty unwell-known yet, but it is truly somewhere you really won't feel that you are you touch the beauty of your spiritual soul and the setting is there for you to really to see the grandiose of nature with thoughtfulness of people. And the rabbits in the garden. And the roosters fighting nicely. Yeah, I mean the gardens are just something else. Kerry Newsome: to the actual church itself. So it's a place where you could spend and you should allow a little bit more time I think. Now Hart was surprised that we were able to be there at about five o'clock and experience of the of the bumps and we don't know yet we're going to do a bit more research around whether that is actually typical because she was kind of told it's normally at two o'clock not at five o'clock and you know i had i kind of put my two bobs in in the sense that i was trying colors of dust in the sky to surround this area and I was right when we were there and I was taking photos and doing a little bit of video. It was just mesmerizing the color mixtures and the feeling I could have spent more time there and I wish we did have more time and that's going to lead into the next thing I want to talk about is timing because we were able to fit those five in that we've just talked about Now, if you pushed yourself, you know, with still having time for lunch and to come back to wherever you're staying, now we're staying at the Emeralda in Tampcock. And I have to say, we were really impressed. It's really only been open here for a couple of years, and the setting of it and where it is, as much imagery and photos because I did go a bit nuts with the photos and video so please watch the social pages and you know you can talk to me anytime reach out and I can give you some more information about these places. But specifically I do want to talk about the timing and the time allowance that you should consider when you're putting your trip together from Hanoi to visit this area. So today we have experience where we're going to see one more and I'm going to ask her to talk about this one because we won't get to come back on the microphones again. from her experience. So today we have one more. That means that in two days, one night, we will have seen six and that is allowing me time to get back to Hanoi and Hanoi airport. Now, personally, now that I've done this, I probably would be recommending you to do two nights and take your time and with your driver and with your guide, you know, allow yourself a little bit more time at these places, building a nice place we would look at for you to spend for lunch, and then come back to enjoy the resort. You know, Hart and I wanted to come back later, we've had a great day, we've had a chance to have a nice swim, sit by the water side, and just take in the ambience of the actual resort. I still think one night is rushing it a little bit, two nights is definitely allowing you to luxuriate and really feel the area. And you could still fill it with more churches because there's plenty of them to see. So how can I ask you to just speak to a little bit about the one we're going to see? Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : So, Carrie, yesterday we have seen very, very European-style church, cathedrals, and basilicas, right? Today we are going to see a church, which I would jokingly call a fusion church. It is going to be the Phat Diep stone cathedral, it is the other quadrant of Catholic system in the Nam Dinh and Ninh Binh area, together with Bui Chu cathedral. Phat Diep cathedral is enormous. It is a stone complex of cathedrals and chapels and praying area. And it is built with the Ningbing limestone, which is famous in this area, on what used to be a swamp. So the engineering work that goes into it is enormous, and it is a combination of Catholic church architecture and Vietnamese traditional communal houses. So it's going to look kind of funky in a way. Very traditional but also very unexpected and like very intriguing in many ways. modernistic as well and like if the nuns there would explain to us why certain things are designed or made a certain way and the story behind all those smaller details are also exciting. So I look forward to go with you in a few minutes to that place and for sure please do add more of your own feeling and impression of Phat Diep Stone Cathedral to our podcast, Kerry. For sure. Kerry Newsome: So the other aspect of the trip that it has brought to me is that you definitely could add more churches into your experience. We have done only a small snapshot Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : We have not even done 1% of these over 600 churches in Nam Dinh province alone, right? We have 99% more churches to see. Kerry Newsome: So you're now getting the gist that this is a snapshot of what is open to you to explore and we could build that in. For the purpose of your planning, I would, as I said, have a look at just how much time you have on your hands to explore this region. The lovely thing about this region from Hanoi is that it is still only in the vicinity of two, three hours in time. So it's not like having to go on those bigger trips where you're going into Yen Bai or you're going to Mu Chai or where it's five, six, seven hours each way, which chew up a lot of time. So this is like some magic very close to Hanoi. I will put in the show notes and list the cathedrals and the basilicas and the churches that we did see. You, as I said, can reach out to me any time and I can access the right information because there is no church tour that you can kind of just buy off the shelf. And I think that's good. I think it should be something that, you know, we craft for you as a person, as an individual, as a person who follows the faith, maybe, or like her, who doesn't follow the faith. However, her curiosity in the churches and Catholicism in Vietnam kind of gave her the insights to want to know more and explore more and I mean you know the one we went to yesterday 15 times she's been there so she still looked in awe of the experience as I did for the first time so I think there's a lot to be had I hope you've enjoyed the show And thank you, for spending the time with me. I so enjoyed it. I knew it would be good and it's lived up to my expectations. Ha ( Hannah ) Dau : Wonderful. So happy to hear that you are enjoying it as much as I did, Kerry. Kerry Newsome: we will get on to the next church, the Modernistic Fusion Church. Let's go! Just wanted to finish off everyone referring to the Phat Diem Stone Cathedral that Hannah refers to just as we were closing off there. We did get to cover it off. It was really hot about kind of 10 o'clock in the morning. So, you know, would recommend you going earlier in the day or in the cooler of the afternoon. A massive area. Look, it is modernistic, very futuristic in the way it's trying to combine the two religions. It didn't kind of capture my soul, I have to admit. However, you know, to see just the expansiveness, the devil of detail. that obviously the architects have gone to to try and combine them as best they can is really quite amazing. It is a big area, so you really need to allow plenty of time to walk around it, to get the gardens and just the full area. They do run masses and you can look up their times to attend those masses. It was truly impressive, but as I said, would it? Did it kind of do it for me? Probably not as much as the others did that we covered off yesterday. And because there's so many more to cover, I probably wouldn't include this one. I'd probably go seeking some others that we didn't get to do on this trip. That's not to say we won't do it in the future. However, I just wanted to cover this off as Hannah said, we were going and she was very excited to see this one again. I hope you've enjoyed the show. We have covered off quite a lot and please reach out if you need any further information. I look forward to bringing you future shows of the What About Vietnam podcast and just want to say thank you for listening.

S5-E20 - Saigon Unseen: Missing the Sights S5- E20 – Saigon Unseen: The Sights You Didn’t Know You Were Missing Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Well, people, here we are six weeks away from Christmas. I don't know about you, but I'm wondering where did the year go? It's been a terrific year. It's been a big year. It's been a busy year. I hope you've enjoyed the programs that we've been able to put on. I really want to extend a big thank you to everyone that follows the show. that sends me your feedback. I hope you gain some information to help you in your trip planning. As you know, I also offer the services of trip planning and I really do love putting those trips together for people and please reach out at whataboutvietnam.com for those services. Today we've got a really great program. I did something really different in this program. I took the risk of recording in an outside location, which is a restaurant in Saigon called The Refinery. While 90% of the recording was good, there is a little bit of background noise. And just as a bit of a heads up, I wanted to just ask for your forgiveness for a couple of spots towards the end of the show that aren't so great. I've done my best to edit those out, but if you'll just forgive those tiny little pieces there that aren't at my normal 100% perfect level that I would normally want to give. However, it hasn't taken anything away from the show. Just on the show schedule now for 24, we have this one and then one more before we wrap up for the end of the year. I will be taking an extensive break. The first show back for 25 will be at the end of January. So, you know, this show to go, one more, which is another great show to finish up the year, so hang in there. We've still got lots to tell you about Vietnam before we wrap up for 24. Now, launching into today's show, it was a really great opportunity, as I said, to try something different, to record outside. I got to meet this person who I've been following for quite a long time, and I'd like to tell you about my guest, Matt Cowan. Matt is the founder of The Bureau Asia , a media channel based in Saigon that he's been creating travel F&B and lifestyle content since 2018. You can find his content all over the web on YouTube, social media, podcast platforms and his website thebureauasia.com. Prior to becoming a media mogul, he was, I'm sure, a comedian in his past life. Matt was the managing editor of Saigon-based English language magazine Word Vietnam for a couple of years after he threw in his career as an educator at RMIT Vietnam, an Australian university with a campus in Saigon. He's also moonlighted for a number of magazines over the years, including Travel Plus Leisure Asia, Silver Chris, and that's your Singapore Airlines in-flight magazine, and others. And he still remains a pen for hire. If you wanted to reach out to him for his insights, his knowledge in the travel sector, F&B and lifestyle content, he would be your go-to guy. He's originally from Australia, from the Murray Valley region, which is just on the border of New South Wales and Victoria for Australians. So, you can imagine, and these are his words, he can be bought off very easily with a good cheese. Matt's been living in Saigon since 2010. and in that time has witnessed and reported on Vietnam's dynamic growth over the past 15 years. I got to meet him and his wife and it was very easy to tell that they really love Vietnam. In talking about his Vietnamese language skills, he's as bad as I am, it's an ongoing process. He says his knowledge of Vietnamese history and culture is getting better, however, not great at remembering names, dates and significant events. I told him that's okay. That's what Google's for. Matt loves Vietnam. He loves its people. And I think you're going to get a lot out of this show. We kind of really clicked. I loved my time with him. He's got some great insights to some parts of the city, which, you know, don't normally fit on your traditional visit map. So, you know, don't worry about trying to keep up with the show. There's lots of links to take you to this information. So, you're going to be able to access it easily when it comes to your visit and I just think you're just going to love the show. Let's welcome him to What About Vietnam. So here we are at the refinery in downtown Saigon and I'm very, very lucky this afternoon because I'm sitting here with a gentleman by the name of Matt Cowan. Matt Cowan : Matt, say hello. Yeah, hi. Hi, Kerry. Thanks for having me. It's an honor to be on your very special podcast that I've been listening to for a long time, by the way. I do tune in, as you say. Kerry Newsome : Well, like that in itself is an amazing feat. Matt Cowan: Yeah. I just hope I don't bore your listeners today. That's all. Kerry Newsome : No, we decided before this, you were the funny one. Remember, I was the serious one. You were very kind. No, you just have to be funny. Yeah, well, you're putting the pressure on. Matt Cowan : Yeah, yeah. Kerry Newsome : Hey guys, I just want you to, I don't know, get a better feel for Saigon in the sense that you have to dig a bit deeper to kind of get to the nitty gritty interesting kind of places. And interestingly enough, Mr Funny here tends to do that. scratch the surface. I said scratch decor. Matt Cowan : You've got to be careful though when you scratch here in this country. I've learnt that over the years. It may end up a trip to the doctor if you scratch a little too hard. Kerry Newsome: Yes, yes. Now be careful. So we're sitting in this beautiful, it's actually a French restaurant called The Refinery . And I've been here several times. It was Matt's decision to come here so I said yes to that very quickly. Matt Cowan : A little bit of history. Kerry Newsome : a little bit of history and I'm going to let Matt talk kind of about the bit of the history stuff because he's far cleverer than me. Matt Cowan: I'm actually not a historian. No. And I'm not actually very good with details. Kerry Newsome : No, but you're interesting. See, so that's okay. Matt Cowan : You can stay. That's two points already. I don't care. You can come back. Kerry Newsome : It's my show. You're on my show. Remember? Now over to you to talk a bit about this area. Matt Cowan: Thanks for dropping that on me. We're in the refinery as you said and just to give a little bit of background to the refinery. The refinery these days, if you say to people who live here, if you say, oh we're going to go to the refinery. It's a restaurant and bar. It's like a French brasserie, I think you would call it. It's like a French bistro kind of place. And I believe it's been open since about 2006. So, it's coming up on the 20 years. Nearly as long as I've been here, I think. No, 15. I've been here 15 years. And it's still here. Amazing. Yeah. And this was this precinct. was really where all the expats at that time would hang out. This building here that we're sitting in, I think it was actually part of the actual, well it's called the refinery because it was an opium refinery back in the day. So I believe in the late 1800s it was where the French government began refining opium and did whatever they did to it for consumption. So I think they imported most of it from India at the time. I think there was a little bit of opium grown here, and hence that's why the name refinery. And just for your listeners, if they do decide, if you guys do decide to come and eat here in this little precinct, There's a gate at the front on Hai Ba Trung Street. It's 74 Hai Ba Trung opposite the park higher. And if you look up at the top of the gate, there's still the opium motif that that was made out of, I don't know what, cast iron back in the day, I guess. And that's been there ever since this place has been open. So, what are we talking? How's your maths, Kerry? Oh, what are you talking about? 120, 160 years or something like that. So, yeah, and this… Because it's off the street. Kerry Newsome: That's what people need to understand. Yeah, there's a gate. There's an archway. Matt Cowan : Yeah. Kerry Newsome : And you have to walk down this little alley. Matt Cowan: That's right. Yeah. Kerry Newsome : And there's quite a collection of restaurants here. Matt Cowan: Yeah, yeah. Kerry Newsome : And it's kind of the first on your left. Matt Cowan: It's a very typical sort of gate of that period. So, if you can imagine back in the day when everything was horse and cart and that sort of thing. So, you know, they had to bring the horses and carts in here to pick up stuff. And when you're walking around town in the older parts of town, you still see a lot of gates like this. But this one in particular is quite unique because it was part of the opium refinery. And as I said, the cast iron motif at the top still has the opium poppies, which is quite intricate and quite beautiful. And I think that you can see it there, Kerry, but I'm just pointing out to Kerry here, there's a, what do you call those, a blind and the logo for the refinery is actually an opium poppy. Kerry Newsome : If, these walls could talk. Matt Cowan : Oh yeah. A little bit further down, there's another restaurant, a Vietnamese restaurant there that your listeners might want to check out one day and it's called Hoa Thuc, which basically means flowers. Kerry Newsome : And there's a nice little bahn mi stand just next door. It's kind of like, it looks like a little caravan that they kind of lift up the doors and make bahn mi from. I love the decor here too. Matt Cowan : Oh, it's a great little spot. It's really cute. I actually came here for lunch a few months ago because with We'll probably get to it eventually, you know, the development of Vietnam and Saigon over the last decade or so has meant that I haven't come to these places so much and now that I've been here a long time, I'm sort of looking to get a little bit more nostalgic, so I came back here for lunch and I walked in and I just went, wow, this is sort of a step back in time, you know, you get a little bit of that French feel. Just before we move on, I was going to mention that back in the day, Mel and I, my wife's here, you know, taking photos of us and that, upstairs was a nightclub. So we used to go up there. It was called Vasco's nightclub. And that was the place where all the expats used to get together on whatever night of the week it was. And yeah, and there weren't too many places to go. Kerry Newsome : Typically back in those days, possibly the place to go would have been above the Caravelle, the rooftop bar there. That was pretty the hot spot to go for a nightlife and a lot of expats, etc. But yeah, keep going. Matt Cowan : Yeah, definitely anywhere that's a five-star hotel back in the day, you know, like when I first came here. So yeah, 2010, the beginning of 2010, there wasn't a hell of a lot of things to do even then, you know, we're talking 2010, you know, a weekend sort of staycation was all you could really do and it was go to say the Park Hyatt or the Sheraton or the Caravelle, have their buffet lunch and then hang by the pool for the rest of the day. There wasn't too much to do but there's a lot of things that have changed, lots of things to do now. Kerry Newsome : And I think maybe there was a preconception that you know, you fly into Saigon, and really it was the stepping point to other places in Vietnam. It was just too city-fied, people were overwhelmed with its busyness, et cetera, and there really wasn't enough info out there. As you said, 2010, it wasn't as civilized and as cosmopolitan, would you say it is now? Matt Cowan: Yep, for sure. Something happened around 2014, I think it was, I think, the Vietnamese government became signatories to a number of international trade agreements. So that sort of opened things up a bit. And then we saw the craft beer boom sort of around then. 2014 was when Pasteur Street first came onto the scene. Some of your listeners might be some of your listeners who are beer drinkers. I'm sure there's a few. they're probably familiar with Pasta Street and also the restaurants and that that came as well and it just built and built and built until the pandemic but we won't talk too much about that. Kerry Newsome : Well we'll have to at some point but I think the evolution of Saigon has been an interesting one as when even now when I'm talking to people and I'm building it into a an itinerary and I'm suggesting to stay extra days, there is a little bit of pushback by everyone saying, oh, do we really need to stay there? And I go, just give it a chance. But as you say, it's not on the surface. I mean, you're going to get a list of the, you know, what are the top five things to do that are going to be in you know, the Unification Palace and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But there's a lot more to that. And pretty much, that's why you're here, Matt, because I've been following you and how you've been, as you say, scratching below the surface to uncover the really cute, natty places. And that's what I want my listeners to get about this place. So knock yourself out with those places. Matt Cowan: Well, I think you hit the nail on the head. To a large extent, Ho Chi Minh City is still seen as that city where you either fly into or fly out of. I get that. And as a long-term resident here, I totally understand, you know. There's motorbikes everywhere. The footpaths are overtaken by motorbikes and street sellers. And if you happen to survive that, you'll roll your ankle. You know, the air quality is not so great. Take your mask off, Kerry. No, she hasn't got a mask on at the moment. But this time of year moves into, even though it's the best time of the year weather-wise, moving into December, It's also the build-up to Tet, the Tet holiday, and sometimes the air quality gets pretty bad, so January sort of into February it can, because the factories really the manufacturing places nearby really whip into gear before Tet. So that can be an issue and I get that, but having said all that, I still believe Saigon, Ho Chi Minh City, is the best city in Vietnam. Wow, big statement. I'm a little bit biased, but I've had an opportunity to scratch beneath the surface and find out a little bit more. I was thinking about this on the way in, and it may be nothing new, but it's all about the people. Saigon is about the people. If you can in some way connect with the people, your stay is just going to be so much better. How do you do that? Well, I suppose come with an open mind and try things. Kerry Newsome : And I think what I like most about what you've been doing with your YouTube and with your podcast is talking to people about the history of this place, but in finding it in places like cafes and architecture and kind of the ambiance. Matt Cowan : The sort of the Indochina kind of thing. Kerry Newsome : Lost in translation kind of guy thing. Matt Cowan : Well, I mean that, how do I say this? Vietnam was colonized by the French. And so these days to sort of glorify the colonial days is perhaps not the thing to do. You know, it wouldn't be happening in Australia probably or in other sort of Western countries around the world. But we've got a, we're up to Generation Z now, I think it is, or Generation whatever they are. Kerry Newsome : I get lost in the alphabet. Matt Cowan : And that, you know, that was a million years ago for those guys and so what we, a little bit of a trend we're seeing at the moment is new cafes and bars opening up, cocktail, there's a lot of cocktail bars here by the way, if you love cocktails, I mean, you've come to the right town. Kerry Newsome : Yeah, I've just spent two weeks here so I think I can vouch for that. Matt Cowan: Oh, that's why you've got the bloodshot eyes. Kerry Newsome : Thanks, Matt. Now you know why I stick to audio and I don't do visual. So tell your wife to turn that camera off. Matt Cowan : But yeah, a lot of, you know, when you come here, you'll discover a lot of cafes and bars that are fairly new and they're harking back to that Indochina vibe, which to me, I love. To be honest, yeah. Dark places, all that lovely, you know, the interior, the French vibes, you know. So, there's a whole lot to discover here in that sense and despite what you hear probably on social media and in the media that, you know, so many of the French buildings are getting torn down and all that sort of stuff. There are actually still a lot of the big apartment blocks that were French built. They're looking a bit tired and weary and stuff like that and a bit smelly. But if you take the time to go in off the street, don't mind, remember we were in Chinatown the other day and you said, oh, I feel like I'm prying into their personal life. Kerry Newsome : Into a neighborhood, into a collective. Matt Cowan : Yeah, don't worry about that. Head in. head in and get up the stairs and have a look around because what you'll find is you know sort of three to four level apartment blocks that essentially hold communities and I'm talking hundreds of people maybe even thousands and where young people have come in the latest generation has come in and they've either traveled or they're better educated. They've come back to their hometown. They're like, okay, I'm going to open up a coffee shop or I'm going to open up a cocktail bar. And they do it. Kerry Newsome : Yeah. And one of the most typical ones, which, uh, you know, is like Instagram fave is the cafe building. Right now, if that, you saw that building in the U S or Australia or whatever, it would be demolished. Right. even to get into it and go up the stairs. Matt Cowan : There were rumors that they were going to pull that down back in the day. Guess what? They haven't. And you know why? Kerry Newsome : It's because it's turned into a major tourist attraction. But what I think I want to stress with just something that Matt's talking about some of these places, they are kind of down dingy alleys. I don't know where you hang out, Kerry. Yes, you actually do because you and I nodded to a lot of the places that we knew in the last few days. Matt Cowan : I know nothing. Kerry Newsome : So, don't give me that. Anyway, but apart from that also, you're not going to see a tourist bus with 40 people pile out in front of it. Matt Cowan: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, good point. Kerry Newsome : It's for the people who really hang around and spend some time to delve in that. Now, you can still be in that group with the bus and people and the 25 people and whatever, and you'll see the stock standard, tick, tick, tick, tick, the boxes, et cetera. But that's only a poof dink of what there is. And I think that's what Matt's trying to say in that. Matt Cowa n: I'm just on that apartment, apartment 42, isn't it? On Winway Street. Interesting that you raised that because About two years ago, I did a video with a local architect. He's a little bit older than me, not too much older than me, but lived here all his life, actually lived in District 1 in this neighborhood. And we did a video together about the Continental Hotel, which is quite famous and a lot of your listeners will be aware of. The Quiet American , the novel, and of course the movies, and Graham Greene, who was the author of that, and he famously stayed in room 214, which Mal and I, Mel, my wife, we stayed in that room a couple of years ago, and I did a video in there. did a bit of a walk around, but I also invited my friend who's the architect to come and talk about the building and talk about the area. Anyway, we've just been in touch and we're going to have lunch next week because we're going to do a video on that very building you're talking about, apartment 42. He's got a lot of knowledge about that and history about that particular building. Kerry Newsome : And it's a funky building in the sense that, you know, you keep climbing the stairs and, you know, you don't know what you're going to do. Matt Cowan: You can pay for the lift for anyone who needs a lift. Have you seen that lift, Matt, recently? It's one of those old French style. It's a cage, isn't it? It's a glorified cage. Kerry Newsome: And then if it got stuck, I'd just, you know, I'd do the stairs. I'll tell you another building is the CatNet building, right next to the new playground. Right. Have you, have you been in there? It's got a Kong cafe right on the corner and it's another mysterious, wild, up, up round stairs. Matt Cowan : I don't know. I get this wrong all the time. The old CIA building. I don't think it was the CIA building. It was the residences for CIA staff, I believe. Someone will correct us in the comments. But it's the spot where the famous photo where the chopper Landed on the day. No, that's not the building. Kerry Newsome : I know you're showing off. Like, sit down. Matt Cowan: It's not too far from here actually. We probably should have got a chopper to lift us in. Of course, that's just what we need. Drop us in and we could have done this podcast there. Kerry Newsome : A little bit of chopper noise in the background just to add more authenticity to us. Matt Cowan: I don't know if anyone would have heard anyway. Kerry Newsome : Anyway, the Catanat building, for everyone else who wants a simplified where is it, it's opposite H&M. You cross over the road and you go through this art dealers kind of thing and then you walk up the stairs. Matt Cowan: Yeah, that's the one where the Comme Café is on the bottom, on the corner, or the Catinat Building is on the corner and there used to be a Cong Café. Cong Café in the building. Yeah. For anyone who's into war history and, you know, the very famous photo that was taken April 29, I think it was, the day before the fall of Saigon. Rooftop is still there. I've been up there. There was a time when you could get up there and you could also pay the security guy to get you up there. Of course you could, Matt. Kerry Newsome : Yeah. Okay, so moving right along, can we talk a little bit about some of the history that comes through in places like the Opera House and some of the shows they put on there? Because I don't think we talk about that enough. I'll start with the one I know, which is the AO. Matt Cowan: Oh, I haven't done that one. I haven't been to that in all these years. Kerry Newsome : But the one you have done is the Tadar. Yeah, Tadar show. So maybe talk to my listeners about the Tadar. Matt Cowan : It was a little while ago, but an amazing show. Yeah, very Cirque du Soleil. And it's done by a troupe of dance, I suppose you call them a troupe, a troupe of dancers from the Central Highlands, somewhere around near Ducklack, I think, or something like that. And it's just a very acrobatic, How else can I? Systematic, no, acrobatic. The choreography's amazing. The choreography's amazing. And all the props are made out of bamboo, so they're manoeuvring these massive… I don't know, artefacts and yeah, boats and big circular things and whatever else made out of bamboo. And it's super daring. It's eye opening. If you get a chance, make sure you go and see it. Kerry Newsome : Yeah, I think it's a definite thing to do, which doesn't get mentioned that much. Matt Cowan: Yeah, funny that. Kerry Newsome : I mean, there's a massive opera house there that the show is featured on. For everyone listening, just be careful on the dates because it doesn't play every day of the year. Matt Cowan : It moves around. Sometimes they go on tour. They go overseas. Kerry Newsome : Yeah, and Hanoi. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they are part of the same troop which is the A.O. show. I personally think the A.O. show is just a step up. And it's been going a lot longer. But it definitely does move around. And I think the company that runs it is called Lune. I'll put a link in the show notes for people to just check your calendars if you're here. You know, I think the whole family would get something out of it. It's really quite special. Matt Cowan : Really great chance to see the Opera House as well. And inside a tip, the comfiest seats in town. Oh, that's handy to know. Because there's not many comfy seats around in this city. There's none. So try and get yourself into the Opera House. Just outside the hop-on hop-off bus. I've seen it. I haven't done it. There's a little ticket booth just outside the front of the Opera House. Kerry Newsome: So you can just wander up there and the buses pull up across the street. I never do on-off buses. I know I should, but I don't. I want to make it hard for myself, obviously. But people say it's a really good summarising opportunity to them to see it. And they don't have to walk in the sweaty day or whatever. They can sit on the top deck and get a suntan. Matt Cowan : You've got to pick your time of day, otherwise you'd fry. You've got to sit inside. I think I've done it a couple of times now and I think we chose around about, well, depending on the season. So we're moving into the best season for tourists at the moment. Christmas in Saigon is the best time weather-wise and also a little bit of a festive atmosphere as well. The Vietnamese don't sort of, yeah, they don't celebrated in a religious sense so much and so great time for the double-decker bus and to sit up on top. Kerry Newsome : And you kind of got to fit it in people because you don't want to miss out on happy hours. You've really got maybe somewhere about three to four maybe do you think? It's about an hour trip, is that right? Matt Cowan: Yeah, it's about, well actually they've extended it as well. You can go into Chinatown now as well. So I haven't done that yet. But Mel and I have done it, the original one, and I think we went about four o'clock. Again, depending on the time of year. So, we're in Vietnam, we're moving into winter. So, you know, shorter daylight hours. It's usually dark at 6 p.m. anyway, isn't it? Usually around here. Yeah. Kerry Newsome : And you want it to be dark at 6 p.m. Matt Cowan: Yeah. So, it's not a bad idea to get the bus at about 4.30 if you can, if there's one going at that stage. So, then it moves into the twilight and then the lights come on. Kerry Newsome: I think Saigon is a night city. Oh. I think the city… Well, it's a lot easier on the eye. We're in a taxi. In some places, it's a lot, lot easier on the eye because some people kind of come out of the woodwork. Matt Cowan : Yeah. Kerry Newsome : Do you know… Yeah, there's some characters that come out. Matt Cowan : Oh, you know about that. You've just… Oh, they don't get around. Like, seriously. You've just taken one off my list. Kerry Newsome : I did that the other night with a friend of ours and it turned out to be, yeah. And I'd never done Bowie Vinn either. So it was a big night. So we did Bui Vinh I was like, from the start to the finish, I was, I'd done that in 15 minutes. But I got in early, I got in early, out early. Matt Cowan : But then we, when then we did the Japan… You might have to go to that hospital you keep telling me about to get some new ears. Kerry Newsome : Look, I save that for special occasions, that hospital, to get special work done. We can definitely talk about Japan Street, but talk about Chinatown. I loved what we did the other day. Matt Cowan : Well, this might be where I get to put a little bit of a plug in, because actually I took you on a small section of a walk that I've created. And so, you know, obviously you'll leave a link to that. But people can access that. That's a self-guided walk that you can do. So you don't need anybody. You just access it through one of my websites or whatever, which is easy, and just follow the prompts along. And there's a few little photos and stuff like that, and a few little explanations. And there's a map. Your time's finite, and same with your money and stuff like that. And so it's like, I don't really want to miss anything. We're calling it Japantown because there's a lot of Japanese sort of small restaurants. If you've been to Japan, you'll know izakayas, so they're sort of little snack bars there. There are, well, you're staring at me earlier, Carrie. Little sort of massage places and little bars where you can, what would you, how would you? No, I don't know how you'd say it, Matt. You would get a companion to sit with you. Buy a companion a drink, not buy a companion. Let's get that straight. Kerry Newsome: I think you'd buy them for more than just a drink. Matt Cowan : Well, I don't know. I don't know. I can't comment any further than that. This is a G-rated show. If you want the X-rated version, go to Patreon. No, my website isn't like that. Yes, so a lot of the Japanese expats will live there. So Vietnam has a lot of Japanese workers who come who are in construction. They do the engineering on skyscrapers. They build roads and bridges and stuff like that. So they've been responsible for a lot of the infrastructure development in Vietnam over the last couple of decades. And of course, when you've got groups of people, you want to generally speaking, kind of hang out with your own to a certain extent and get the food and the drink that you're used to and the massages, I suppose, that you're used to from back home. And a little bit of care and attention. And over the years, it's developed into a bit of a Japan town. But before that, We actually used to call it the ghetto because expats new to town would wind up there. That was where there was accommodation. The landlords were used to having foreigners live with them and they sorted out their, you know, their residence stuff there. rental agreements and leases and all that sort of stuff. But over time, over the last decade or so, it's evolved into this sort of almost like a red light entertainment. Kerry Newsome : Yeah, I was wondering whether those words were going to come out red and light together. Matt Cowan : Or if you're Japanese listening to this, pink. Kerry Newsome : It's like a maze, isn't it? It's a rabbit warren of little alleys. We were actually looking for, I think, a famous bar or some guy who was involved in a bar called The Power. Matt Cowan : Oh, OK. Kerry Newsome : I saw him on a YouTube channel the other day. And it was nothing like I expected. Matt Cowan : It looks a bit like a gentleman's bar. Let's put it that way. Kerry Newsome : Well, there wasn't even any gentleman there. Matt Cowan: Right. Kerry Newsome: It was dead as a doornail. Matt Cowan : What time was that? Kerry Newsome : Oh, probably about nine. Matt Cowan: Yeah, a little bit early. Probably a little bit early. Yeah. Yeah. And you're not really the demographic. No, thankfully. But then you moved on to Bui Vien Street, which is the backpacker area, Pham Nhu Lao area. Kerry Newsome: And that was just, as Matt's saying, you know, that's about ticking a box for me. I literally, from the archway that it begins to the archway, I reckon I hightailed that. I did that in about 15 minutes, 20 minutes. And as you say, demographically, that's not for me either. I stood out like the proverbial. Matt Cowan: It's worth having a look though, isn't it? Kerry Newsome : Look, the food here is so diverse. I get challenged with my clients in trying to describe the cuisine and the choices available in Saigon. Like, people say, oh, what happens if I don't like Vietnamese? That won't be a problem because there's Japanese, there's Greek, there's Italian, Like, you name it, it is here in Saigon and good quality and well-priced. Matt Cowan: Yeah. Kerry Newsome : There's plenty. So, yeah. So, I think and the cakes are like, I've got a girlfriend who recently had some surgery and as I said, we'll talk about that. But all she could eat was something very Ah, soluble and soft. So, she went for the cake. So, I have got some beautiful places to list out for you to explore as far as cake shops. Buttery - https://www.facebook.com/butterycakecafe/ Ivoire - https://www.facebook.com/ivoirepastry/ Matt Cowan: And that's the French history still hanging around, you know. It's a beautiful thing. And other things that are sort of French that you'll find, and especially deep into the outer districts as well, are flans. Kerry Newsome: Oh, okay. Matt Cowan : Yeah, there's a long tradition of flan here. So, the little, they're like the little custard tarts and stuff like that. Yes. You get the caramel flan or whatever. So, you'll be driving, you don't really see them so much in District 1, District 3, but if you go over the canal to District 4, there's a street there, all the other districts really. But eventually you'll come across someone who's got a little stand on wheels and they'll be selling flan and little sort of custard tartlets, little pastry on the outside and then the egg tart in the middle. And you just whack one of those back and get going. What advice am I going to give people? And probably, as I said at the beginning of the episode, was about the people. The people make this country. They make this city, you know? So, OK, you need your guard up. As a traveller, you need to take care of your things, take care of your bag, take care of everything else. Make sure you don't get run over crossing the street or whatever. But other than that, Be open to people approaching you and having a chat. The Vietnamese, I lived in Japan for three years, 25 years ago. And the Japanese really are not into speaking English. They're not great at it, generally speaking. It's very rare to be able to walk up the street and say, hey, can you help me in English? And someone will answer. Whereas here, it might be a lady on the street pushing a trolley. up a sort of a hill in the midday sun and you stop her and say, hey, can you show me where this cafe is or whatever and they'll have a go at it. Kerry Newsome : I'm a bit like you. I really do try to encourage my travelers to engage where they can. And people say, you know, well, how do I do that? And you can start with your reception staff at your hotel. They are your first point of contact. You'll probably find that they have a little bit more English at their disposal. I have had the most amazing relationships formed by getting to know the reception staff at various hotels. The other thing I'd encourage you to do is to do something that they will need to speak to you about, like a cooking class. And sometimes you'll, you know, engage with, I mean, I've got a very, very dear friend that started, she ran that cooking class. We just formed a relationship. The next thing she was sending me a text message at the end of the afternoon said, you know, what are you doing this afternoon? Would you like to meet up for a coffee? Would you like to go for a glass of wine, because I'd obviously shared with her I like a glass of wine. And, you know, we went from there. And I was then able to, you know, spend time with her and see Vietnam through her eyes. And that was just invaluable. Matt Cowan : Yeah. And you've just reminded me, one way to feel a part of the city and if you're brave enough, get on the back of a motorbike. Absolutely. It's one way that you can really feel like you're part of the crowd and while we're on it, there's just a couple of motorbike tours Can I mention them? Sure. That I'd recommend. One is Vesper Adventures . Definitely, I've done it and it's a great tour. It's really cool. Kerry Newsome : And then Vesper's a bike, an interesting bike in itself and it's probably only going to go about 40 k's an hour. Matt Cowan : They also do a craft beer pub crawl as well so you can book one of those if you want to do that, if you're into that. Another one, a young guy, he has one called Yes Ride. as well. So, they're young kids who get around, you know, early 20s or something like that, locals. So, that's really cool. Have we got time to just quickly, I've got a little list here of a couple of things. Go for the list. I kind of forgot about it. Okay. So, one other thing, if you're into history, in Saigon. One of the things on my list that I did, you know, the 25 things to do is eat in locations that are historic, just so you can sort of soak it in. And obviously the refinery is one of those. Another one is the Continental Hotel, which we mentioned, the Graham Green Hotel. So if you're a bit of a bookworm and, you know, nostalgic and stuff like that, you can sit there. And actually on Sundays, I think it is. Often on Sundays, the vintage cars will come out and they'll just park there. And the guys who have got these really old vintage cars, they'll want to show off their cars to people and they just park them there and people come along, take photos and you can have some sex on the beach or a blue lagoon or, you know, those old school cocktails back in the 70s. I mean, I wasn't around then, but you might remember. Another one, I just mentioned Tan Din before, where the pink church is. Not too far up the road there's a pho place, pho noodle soup place called Pho Bin. And it was a Viet Cong safe house during the war. And that's where they orchestrated the attack on the US embassy in 1968 for the Tet Offensive. And so what you can do is you can go there and have a bowl of fur. And then for a small fee, you can go upstairs and they've still got the room set up basically how it was back in 1968. And so it was a cover for all the, you know, the top brass to go up there and have meetings and stuff like that. And there's photos around of the father of the sons who still own the place. The sons are, you know, probably in their 70s now or something like that. And there's old photos there. So you can sort of soak it in a bit. And not too far away is a place called Cafe Dolfo. And it was also a similar sort of place. And Kerry, I think, I'll send you a, I'll give you a link and map location, stuff like that. And it's a quite a cool little spot to go because it was another one of those places that was sort of, you know, during the war, under everybody's noses, you know, the spies were coming in and out. And then allegedly across the street, there was a Korean army, you know, soldiers barracks and the soldiers, the Korean soldiers used to go in there and have breakfast. Little did they know that it was actually a VC safe house, sending messages and listening in to their conversations. And that's still there. And it's a national relic. So and it's free. to check out. So, yeah, but there's a whole lot of other things and if I think of them all, I'll let you know. Kerry Newsome: The great thing about talking with you, Matt, is that you've got a library of links, YouTube videos, bits and bobs. Matt Cowan : I'm glad because my memory's going. Kerry Newsome : I was actually thinking of coming to talk to you. How's he going to remember all that? And then I thought, no, it doesn't matter because, you know, there's that thing called the World Wide Web and it means that I can send links to you. But don't worry listeners if you think oh God I need to keep up with this or I need to read this very, very long transcript which it's turning out to be. I'm going to put some links in. You're going to be able to go straight to Matt's pages and his YouTube videos. Matt Cowan : On the other occasion I do a podcast as well as a podcast, the Bureau Asia podcast. That's how I found you Matt if you remember. Kerry Newsome : So, anything to wrap up with that we want to leave people with as far as Saigon? Matt Cowan: I just think if you're coming to Saigon, try not to think of it as a, you know. Leapfrog. Yeah. Spend a bit more time. Spend a few nights here. I think three nights might At least do it. Come with an open mind. Do everything in the morning or in the evening. Leave the middle of the day for you back at the hotel and have your nana nap or whatever. I'm big on that because the heat creeps up on you and then next thing you're ready to pass out. Kerry Newsome : And pick a time of year. Matt Cowan : Yeah, that's right, yeah. And typically I tell people around about Christmas, the end of the year is good for Saigon. Not too sure what it's like in Hanoi, pretty chilly that time of year, isn't it? Kerry Newsome: Getting December, January, it's starting to cool off dramatically, yeah, it drops because, you know, you're up near the China border and, you know, it's a totally different… But all the storms are pretty much done by then. Matt Cowan: Yes, it's just cold. You know, this time of year, Nha Trang tends to cop it a little bit. We get a bit of rain here this time of year, but… Kerry Newsome : No, Saigon is good. Okay Matt, thanks for being on the show. It's been great to have you. I really appreciated Matt coming on the program. As promised, you'll find a lot of the links to Matt's website and his social media platforms, including his podcast. We mentioned a few different places to visit in Saigon. I'll also include those links. So please go to the website whataboutvietnam.com to find those or check your podcast channel for information and the transcript. Thank you and I look forward to sharing more Vietnam travel stories next episode. Please enjoy some of the topics we managed to cover during the show. 00:07:03 - Exploring Saigon's Hidden Gems 00:08:16 - History of The Refinery 00:10:33 - French Colonial Architecture in Saigon 00:12:47 - Nightlife and Expat Hangouts 00:14:06 - Saigon's Evolution and Modernization 00:17:07 - Connecting with Saigon's People 00:18:10 - French Colonial Influence in Modern Cafes and Bars 00:20:05 - Exploring Historic Apartment Buildings 00:23:21 - Famous Historical Sites and Buildings 00:25:28 - Cultural Shows at the Opera House 00:27:47 - Hop-On Hop-Off Bus Tours 00:30:01 - Saigon as a Night City 00:31:04 - Exploring Japantown and Chinatown 00:40:04 - Motorbike Tours in Saigon 00:41:08 - Historic Dining Locations 00:45:06 - Best Time to Visit Saigon Links as mentioned for you to explore further:- Continental Hotel video with architect Hoanh Tran (The Bureau Asia YouTube Channel) https://youtu.be/YBqwIGvOuXw?si=lYVTgbhtjT5kRTR_ Cho Lon Self-Guided Walk (The Bureau Asia Substack Mailing List) https://thebureauasia.substack.com/p/cho-lon-self-guided-morning-walk The best places to EAT, PLAY, LOVE in HCMC in 2024 (links out to the 25 Things to Do in HCMC video) https://thebureauasia.com/2024/03/30/the-best-places-to-eat-play-love-in-ho-chi-minh-city-in-2024/ Then & Now - Saigon 20 Years On (The Bureau Asia Podcast) https://podcasts.apple.com/vn/podcast/then-now-saigon-20-years-on/id1478396971?i=1000656875461 The Bureau Asia Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/thebureauasiagroup Opera House shows https://www.luneproduction.com/

Travel Guide Vietnam. A DIY guide on the things most guidebooks don’t tell you. It’s an easy read for the cost of a cup of coffee. Designed to be highly interactive with links to blogs, websites, videos, Apps and guides you too “how to get a Visa”. This makes the book compact, and easy for you to select what you want to know, when you need it the most. Available on Amazon - https://a.co/d/1v5Eyh3 An exciting new travel guide Written by Kerry Newsome, based on her actual travels and adventures. Are you thinking of booking a trip to Vietnam, but don’t know where to begin? This book is designed just for you as a new traveller to Vietnam. It’s here to offer helpful tips to ensure you have the time of your life! “It has been designed to give the traveller brief tips and hints to help you ‘Book’ your trip wisely, ‘Pack’ for all kinds of conditions, and enjoy your ‘Stay’ with some local knowledge I have gained from my many visits to Vietnam” – Kerry Newsome A DIY guide on the things most guidebooks don’t tell you. It’s an easy read for the cost of a cup of coffee. Designed to be highly interactive with links to blogs, websites, videos,Apps and guides you too “how to get a Visa”. This makes the book compact, and easy for you to select what you want to know, when you need it the most. Available on Amazon - https://a.co/d/1v5Eyh3 OUTLINE As the main theme is a DIY Guide , the advice offered in the “Book, Pack & Stay - Travel Guide To Vietnam” is from my personal experience as a Vietnam Travel Podcaster, frequent traveller and country expert. I’ve got so much knowledge I want to share with new travellers, I thought it was about time I did! There is one thing you need to know from the beginning; This is NOT a “How to save money guide book,” nor is it a detailed Vietnam Travel Destination Guide book. You’ve got tons of Google options and Destination guide books for that type of information. This is more a guide on how to avoid the many inconveniences and stresses that you may not even realize you could experience as a new traveller in Vietnam. It’s the guide to making travel in and around Vietnam more pleasurable. Asia can be quite a culture shock to Western travellers. The new smells, traffic, and all around chaotic nature of Asian cultures can be quite startling to westerners. Don’t worry, it only adds to the charm and vibrancy of Vietnam! This guide will help eliminate some of the culture shock, as well as give you pointers on making your trip to Vietnam incredibly memorable in so many ways. It is kind of like the guide book to the nuances of travel in Vietnam, that don’t commonly appear in print or in social media. Who is this book suited for? This book will appeal to the more discerning traveller, someone who is looking for more than just a run of the mill guide book. These insider tips can help both a seasoned traveller, someone new to travelling Vietnam or someone who likes to plan ahead. Why did I write it? After many years of travelling back and forth to Vietnam, I came to experience some common themes or issues that could be easily addressed if the traveller was made aware of them, prior to departure. I have identified many issues that when combined, caused my guests in small groups, stress, anxiety and sometimes sheer annoyance. I have addressed these issues and many more in this book. The book has been written with first-time travellers to Vietnam in mind. For those who have never been to Asia, many aspects apply across the board when it comes to Asian travel. It will help you to avoid some of the pitfalls of travelling to Vietnam, and will soften the blow of culture shock. I am a strong believer in ‘knowledge is power’. Armed with some travellers' insights you will be able to handle these travel situations calmly and with compassion. I’m going to debunk some myths that you may have heard about Vietnam and simplify some of the things that can prove challenging for first time travellers as well. Vietnam, as a socialist republic can be misunderstood, and yet travel to the country is now very easy and enjoyable. With a few of the tips and tricks for travel in Vietnam shared here it’s my greatest hope that they make your journey even more relaxing and something you might like to do again. How did this book come together? The simple answer is that over my many years of travel to Vietnam I have collected these tips, and after sharing them with friends, I was told they would be useful for other travellers. In my role as a travel adviser and travel host, I have witnessed many first-time traveller experiences, first hand. Frankly, many of the situations that turned sour could have been easily avoided with some prior knowledge and education about Vietnam. I hope this book will diminish any fears or misconceptions you may have about travelling to Vietnam and encourage you to visit this vibrant country. You will generally find the people warm, friendly and welcoming. The food is amazing, fresh, tasty and expansive, and the country itself is scenic, colourful, rich and enchanting. When is this book suited for? This book was written in late 2022 and covers travel in post-Covid Vietnam.

S5-E22 - 10 things travellers may not know S5-E22 - 10 things travellers may not know Episode 22 S5-E22 - 10 things travellers may not know 00:00 / 1:11:30 What About Vietnam – Kicking Off 2025 with Ian Paynton To start the year with a bang, I wanted to explore some essential insights for travelers to Vietnam –things that first-time visitors might not know but, if they did, could make their experience even richer. Joining me for this deep dive is Ian Paynton, a Vietnam enthusiast who has spent years uncovering the country’s hidden gems. Through his podcast, You Don’t Know Vietnam, and his agency, We Create Content, Ian focuses on helping international brands build authentic and engaged audiences in Vietnam. But that’s not all – he’s also gained fame in Vietnam’s music scene as a rap star. Be sure to check out some of his tracks: • Oi Gioi Oi • The Charming Beast In this episode, we explore 10 fascinating things about Vietnam that might surprise you, including: [00:02:59] (1) Surprising perceptions of Vietnam [00:06:23] Cities worth exploring in Vietnam.. [00:15:08] (2) Pho variations in Vietnam. [00:20:05] (3) Expect the unexpected in Vietnam. [00:23:31] (4) Things are done differently in Vietnam. [00:28:36] (5) Social media's impact on Vietnam. [00:30:45] Train Street's social media impact. [00:35:02] Ha Giang Province exploration. [00:41:11] (6) Next big tourism attraction. [00:46:03] (7) Vietnamese music festivals [00:48:50] (8) Tinder scene and how to avoid scams [00:52:27] (9) Pronouns and hierarchical addressing in Vietnam. [00:57:09] (10) Ethnic diversity in Vietnam – where to find those 54 minority groups [01:00:31] Respecting local cultures in Vietnam. [01:04:45] Value for money in Vietnam. This episode offers a fresh take on Vietnam’s culture, quirks, and evolving identity, making it a must-listen for both first-time visitors and seasoned travelers. Start your 2025 journey with new insights and a deeper appreciation for this dynamic country. Thanks for listening and don’t forget to reach out via “message speak” on our website or via email if you have any questions. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S5-21 - Vietnam's TET holiday S5-21 - Vietnam's TET holiday Episode 21 S5-21 - Vietnam's TET holiday 00:00 / 21:12 With Tet just around the corner, this episode is your ultimate guide to preparing for Vietnam’s most vibrant and culturally rich celebration—don’t miss it!

Tet, or Tet Nguyen Dan, is Vietnam’s most cherished holiday, marking the Lunar New Year with vibrant traditions, family gatherings, and a festive spirit. This magical time lasts over nine days, featuring rituals like home cleaning, flower displays, and the gifting of red envelopes. Being prepared is the difference between acceptance and frustration. It's like that old saying “Why didn’t someone tell me about this”? In this episode, I’ll walk you through the must-know details to navigate Tet in Vietnam, from the bustling pre-holiday atmosphere to the travel challenges you might face. Whether it’s cultural highlights or practical tips, this quick guide has you covered to make the most of your trip during this unique celebration. Join me as I share 8 essential tips to help you plan your Tet adventure and leave you with a thought-provoking question: With this newfound insight, is Tet in any year, the right time for your Vietnam journey? 00:02:14 - Introduction to Tet
 00:03:09 - Common Questions About Tet
 00:03:29 - Understanding Tet: Duration and Importance
 00:05:06 - Travel Considerations During Tet
 00:06:21 - Is Tet a Good Time for Tourists?
 00:08:09 - What's Open and What's Not During Tet
 00:09:57 - Significance of the Zodiac Animal for the Year
 00:11:03 - Summary of Common Tet Questions
 00:12:29 – 8 Tips for Travelers During Tet
 00:17:23 - Post-Tet Travel in Vietnam

 I wish to take this opportunity to wish everyone happy holidays and a Merry Christmas. Thank you for being such a wonderful audience. See you back here in January 2025. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

cd6811b6-5086-4174-8bab-bb04fa9d2ec2Samantha Coomber guides us through Saigon's districts Best districts of Saigon HCMC 2021 Episode 3 S3-03 Saigon HCMC Districts 00:00 / 42:51 This is the ultimate guide to the best districts to explore in Saigon. Together with my guest Samantha Coomber we explore the new, old, and developing districts of the city. Our focus is on the districts of 1, 2, 3 and 5. In passionate detail, Samantha offers up those districts and close neighbourhoods that are rich in culture, street food, markets, cafes, and pagodas. And for those looking for something very diverse, she tells us about gondolas, sunset cruises, and speedboats that buzz you down the river and make you feel like you are in a James Bond movie. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

ec8280d1-e874-4b14-8ce4-6df2779388afJeremy Stein takes us diving in the best locations Diving in Vietnam - everything you need to know Episode 6 S3-06 Diving in Vietnam 00:00 / 33:12 If you are thinking about diving in Vietnam, but not sure of the best locations or what to expect, then this is the podcast episode for you. Jeremy Stein is my guest and a pro PADI diving instructor of some notoriety in Vietnam. Originally from the UK, you could say he pioneered diving in Vietnam by opening the first PADI Dive centre in Vietnam back 25 years ago. In the episode we discuss: best times of year to travel to each location, and we name 5 of the best diving sites in Vietnam, namely - Nha Trang, Whale Island, Con Dao, Phu Quoc, and Hoi An. All stunning locations offering pristine beaches and a very relaxed holiday vibe. We talk about the kinds of fish and coral you can see, which number hundreds of varieties across the locations. Whether you are just diving for fun or never considered diving before, there is something for everyone in Vietnam. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript