S4-15 Travelling as a solo woman What About Vietnam - S4 - E15 What makes female solo travellers love Vietnam? Kerry Newsome (3:57) Hello, Camellia Dinh, welcome to the about Vietnam podcast. How are you? Camellia Dinh (4:03) Hi, Kerry, thank you so much for having me here today. I am very well. Kerry Newsome (4:07) When we got together in Saigon. And we kind of talked through some ideas about what to talk about. I really liked the fact that we could talk about solo women and the empowerment of traveling Vietnam because it's something you and I both do. Yes. Like, I do it for some business and some leisure and I think you do it the same. Camellia Dinh (4:36) Okay. I think, yeah, I'm not sure about what it is for you in your own culture, right. As a Vietnam solo traveler. I mean, it is not something uncommon, from what I say, what I see that for the majority of time, even with my friends or the community that I know more than 10 people would prefer to travel with their partner, or with a group of friends as it is way more fun to have somebody to share things and experience with, that I don't know. Maybe I am just one of those who would like also to explore my own way of enjoying things, I would actually say that I'm not a solo travel professional or in any way. But I started to be a solo traveler since I was a teenager. Because for me, I'd be growing up far away from my parents. So I have a lot of opportunity to figure things by myself and try to find ways by myself as I was growing up. And as we keep getting busier as well, I find it extremely difficult, trying to arrange a trip with someone else. Whether even with my best friend, you know, they have different study schedule, go schedule, and we're just trying to find a date, we can go together and it is getting hard. And that was the moment that I think you know, forget it. Why don't we just go and travel and explore the world by ourselves. Because it will keep waiting, I don't know how long I will have to wait. And sometimes we'd prefer and I just want to travel during the quiet time when people's go to work, I will travel so I have all the scenery by myself, even the hotel I stay will a bit quiet as I can actually enjoy the other services and the views in front of me, etc. And I do prefer it that way. So I thought okay, maybe I just give it a try. And then I do it and see how it goes. But the more I start traveling, on my own, I seem to enjoy it even more. Well, but don't get me wrong, okay, if I have chance to travel with friends, family partner, I'm still happy to do so. Kerry Newsome (6:51) And you know, I concur. I'm exactly the same, I found myself finding it limiting. Because my friends were busy with their families or their jobs, etc. I had a little bit more flexibility in time. So yeah, I just, you know, kind of started doing some travel on my own. But I found it quite liberating. I know that's a strange word. But because I found it easy to do in Vietnam, and I'm speaking to all women who are listening to this travel podcast, and are thinking, oh, gosh, I don't know whether I could go to Vietnam on my own. Well, I mostly go on my own. So it forced me to, to look at Vietnam for what I wanted to experience, just like you were saying, it actually pushes you to discover things for yourself. And you can do it any way you like, because you don't have to ask your friends or your families that aren't OK, do they want to do it as well or whatever. So, I'm like you I love traveling with my family and my husband and all the rest of it. But that's a very different experience to traveling as a female and traveling solo. But I never feel odd or people I don't think look at me strange. Because I'm on my own. Like you've seen me traveling Vietnam. Do you think I stand out in the crowd? Or? Maybe I do because I'm blonde. But like, do you think people look at you like you're strange because you're traveling on your own? Camellia Dinh (8:27) Actually, some towns, sometimes Kerry I have maybe in the past, I still remember one of my very first trips and pick some of those destinations that seems to be more suitable to travel when you have a partner for example, you know Dalat. Our Highland area, right? So the weather there is beautiful. Also, very chill. You have flowers everywhere, beautiful scenery. And people often picture themselves traveling with a partner. And they say yeah, you don't want to go to Dalat alone, what you want to do there? I actually, I actually book my hotel for five nights, on my own. I mean, I was a solo traveler there. It was interesting. And at that time, it was eight years ago, and people asked me that question, are you seriously going to Dalat on your own? I say yes, I don't see anything wrong with that, especially all of my friends was lazy and cannot ask somebody to go with me. So I'm just going to find things on my own. And when I travel to the destination, the thing that fascinated me the most, of course, just like what you say, liberating rate, the word that you use, I feel free, because nobody stopped me from doing what I want. I eat whatever whenever I want. I go to different places. If I feel tired, I just go to sleep. I don't have to follow anybody's agenda. But the interesting thing that I had along the way was once I was sitting in a cafe on my own, and I saw one American couple, they come approach me and ask me a few questions because they say, well, it's their first time in Vietnam. And they have the feeling like they need to come and talk to me for the reason that they saw me, a female solo traveler in Dalat, sitting on my own. I was like, well, that's interesting. And I asked them, how their travel experience so far, and they say, I think Vietnam is a very safe country. However, my family didn't think so. The problem was, yeah, they travel from the US to Vietnam. And she has a very old grandmother, before she traveled to Vietnam, she told her grandmother that grand mom going to Vietnam and her grandmother got freaked out. Because all they was thinking of was the history the past and everything else. And they will say, yeah, I don't recommend you to go there. It's very dangerous, people probably going to have that sort of mindset, however when she came, she felt my god, like nobody actually asking question whether she's American or any issue when it comes to history and culture, and you feel very welcoming. And the fact that I shall go to Dalat, and she saw me there just to prove that Vietnam is very safe for even a solo young female traveler on her own. And they have that confidence to come and speak to meet because they were so curious as well. And they asked me a lot of question, and we became really good friends afterwards. So I thought, if I was traveling with a partner, I might not get a chance to talk to those interesting people. And, and that is one of the perks that we could only get when we also travel, we have chance to explore new things and paying attention to other people and things surrounding us. Kerry Newsome (11:54) Yes, I totally agree. I mean, I find myself in situations where I think people see me on my own. And they then feel like they can approach me because obviously, I'm kind of, I'm there on my own. So you know, I'm not talking to anyone, they're not going to disrupt me or anything like that. So, I often find I meet a lot more people. And in particular, with the Vietnamese, they also, as you talked about being curious, they're curious to find out about me, so they'll come and ask me questions, or they'll maybe want to practice their English, or they want to know what country I'm from, and things like that. So I don't think I would have got to have had as much interaction with people if I hadn't have traveled on my own. And I think if the Vietnamese nature, if like, your nature wasn't as friendly, and as open, I likewise, wouldn't have got the opportunities that I got. But because those two match up really nicely. It is I always feel lighter and brighter. And you know, someone quoted me recently and I kind of said, you know, I feel like I get an injection of color into my life because you know, there's beautiful coffee houses and tea houses and places to go. So, you know, you can be with amongst people, but still be on your own and feel very comfortable. Can we talk a little bit about community, you, you are a young professional woman? And obviously, you have a good knowledge of Vietnam. So when you're traveling? Do you like pick, like you talked about the Dalat and that's a place I have got yet to feature on my podcast. But I loved Dalat also. Is there particular places that you would say are better for the female traveler as far as enjoyment, safety things to do, one over the other do you think? Camellia Dinh (14:09) Well Kerry, this question is a little bit complex answer right? When it comes down to experiences, it's all depend on what we are seeking for right? And what sets us the other way around. I think it really depends on what we're looking at here. It's very difficult for me to say which place is better than the others, because sometime it depends of how we like to enjoy life in different ways. Some people would prefer to stay in big cities, for example, so obviously to our mega city, Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City, or even some other city later now I'm going to be perfect for those who want to see a bit of a vibe seeing a lot of people on the street, a lot of things happening, events as such, right? Then we have much of our country is we have a lot of mountains, right? So the mountainous area also beautiful, is gorgeous landscape, and you get to be very close to the nature and our coastal area. Okay, the beaches are also amazing. And I don't know, it just depends on which part of Vietnam that we want to explore. And from what we say earlier, a Vietnam is pretty safe. And we know that the level of crime is extremely low in this country, I will say is very safe. But it also depends on how brave we are as a traveler and a female traveler in particular, when we travel to those areas, because other consideration that we need to take in would be on our language ability. If you were able to communicate with a local, because I will say, of course, if you are in big cities is very likely for you to be able to meet somebody who can speak English. But that might not be the same case when you travel to a province or village. Yeah, even though I say yeah, it’s safe. But then you might not feel safe if you travel somewhere that people don't understand you at all. So with that, we probably need to come with a little bit of preparation. But other than that, I think Vietnam is just so big when it comes into seeking different experiences. And I just cannot tell which experience will be better than the others. Kerry Newsome (16:22) Okay, then I'll share one of mine. And I'll share it from the experience of like, I'm a mature woman. So I'm traveling around, and I, I don't want to be worried about my safety, I don't want that to be part of my holiday. So, when I started doing this back in 2016, really on my own, I did one more. I did earlier trip in 2007. But I spent a month in 2016. And I decided to pick Hoi An as my base. And there was a couple of reasons that I chose Hoi An, and a couple of reasons I continue to choose Hoi an as a base, as it's got a very country style, feel to it, you can walk to most places, or you can get very short taxi rides to the beach or things like that. There’s a lot to do, there's a lot of things to experience, you can make lanterns or masks, do cooking classes, you know, go by the river, you can go to Marble Mountain, and you know, there's all sorts of things to do from there. But generally, it's quite chilled, it's quite easy. It's an easy place to maneuver. When I first came to Vietnam, I was struck with Ho Chi Minh City as my open door to Vietnam. It was like “whoa,” you know, like, I've really got to get my head around this, you know, I mean, over time, I’ve certainly conditioned myself. And I’ve found Saigon this time, much more manageable to get around. I think there's more street signs, there's more traffic lights, more one way streets. There is some better management of the flow of people around I think. it still gets, you know, like traffic jams, we all have that, etc. But it is easier to get around. But it's the city, you've got to keep your wits about you. You know, because it's so busy. Because there's a lot of people, there are more people that speak English there. But you, you know, like, I've heard some stories about people who get their cameras pinched, or their phones or, you know, they leave their handbag down or something and you know, then then it's gone. I mean, that's like that in any city in the world, to be honest. But I just think for people that are coming to Vietnam for the first time, they are female, they are a solo traveler, I would be recommending that you, you know, do a little tip toe into Saigon for a few nights because you have to there's just too much great stuff to do there. But then you might want to go and spend a bit more time in some quieter areas like Hoi An or Nha Trang or Danang even would be a little bit quieter, etc. And then you can come back and stay in Saigon again on your way home. So that's just from my experience. And that's you know, basically that's all I can share because that's what I know, that's what I live. You know your experiences you work in a hotel, which has got a tagline called “the home of the daring.” So I thought I'm talking to you, their sales and marketing director. She's working at a hotel that claims to be the home of the daring in the middle of Saigon Central. You know, she's a female traveler. She's definitely going to be able to talk about the empowerment of travelers because you meet them. Also I would understand at the hotel solo travelers, I met a couple when I was there. So, you know, when a woman is coming to Saigon, Saigon is your main city? Do you have any places that you would see them to enjoy the best of Saigon? I mean, I think the shopping is amazing. But that's because I know some secret spots. And I'm putting up a tour together…. about that ‘secret squirrel’, but I don't know. What do you think? Are there some things that a female in Saigon should definitely do? Camellia Dinh (20:44) Well, Kerry, I think using bravery in a very interesting topic. And thank you for mentioning our hotel. So our hotel Fusion Original Saigon Centre; we do have a tagline called the home of the daring. And I think that is it’s fascinating to think about it, and us the way we see here Vietnam as well, that is a country depends on the way we look at it. It’s the way people actually look at our history in the past, and say that we are very conservative in certain things. But the way we see here as a local, I was like anything and everything's happening in my country and we don't really have to put any limitation into the way we can export the things and learnings of a new culture. And I don't see Vietnam with a lot of subculture as such, for example, when it comes into even a sensitive topic, for example, like religions, or the LGBT community, or any things that some people might probably think that is part of the extreme in Vietnam. I think, we actually make it very easy for every single group of people to come and explore that includes solo female travelers that include the LGBT community that they don't feel discriminated for example, and different people from different religions example you’re Christian, Catholic, Buddhist or any other religion as well, we have something for everyone. So most people do not have a problem when they come in travel to Vietnam I will say for example, if you even come in from Islamic country, you're Muslim and you cannot eat pork in Vietnam, we actually eat pork every day you know, most of the time, we do that. But it doesn't mean that when they come to Vietnam they cannot find the right type of food because we can pick it up really fast when we know that. The travelers that come we listen to, and we diversify our offering to international tourists. How about food especially in the five star environment, we know what our international guests want. And we start to introduce that concept into many of our restaurants here in the city. So, this is one of those examples to tell you that yes, you can find anything and any trends that you can find for example, for female, when we start to care a lot more about wellness care, more about our dietary requirements. How to make sure that our daily consumption will never be in check you know, because we don't want to gain weight, but the foods we eat will have to be delicious. So, I think Vietnam’s cuisine is a great choice when it comes to that matter right. We love our food just for the reason how the resources is. But also how simple it is when it comes to the preparation and the clean factor as well extremely low compared to the rest of the cuisine in the world. So when it comes to that, obviously if the female travelers coming to my city or any other city in Vietnam, I would highly recommend to try. First thing is you probably want to try our cuisine okay? And I wouldn't hesitate to give you a list of some of our recommended restaurants for you to come and explore. Kerry Newsome (24:02) So okay, we'll have that list. Camellia Dinh (24:06) Yes, okay. So we do that and then you say shopping is an interesting experience as well right? When it comes to shopping. I will say different style either we can do, and no way you go to all the shopping malls, all those big ones, actually our hotel located inside a shopping mall, as you already know. But we also have the chance to experience shopping local in the local markets, by walking distance, or to go to some markets when you can actually see people prepare different things, especially women, like seem to be drawn to although tailor made clothing. Go there and get a beautiful Ao Dai for yourself that is custom made for your figure and all that sort of thing. So, they'll experience that kind of thing. One thing I want to introduce. Last week is a very interesting day that I went to in Vietnam is we call “Quê một cục”. And to translate in English, it means something like a countryside – Hair Salon? Kerry Newsome (25:16) Okay, so basically a hair salon. Camellia Dinh (25:19) Yeah, it's something like, that basically the ideas for them is to offer something belongs to the culture, okay, something happened years ago, it's not anything modern about that. But the way we put it because sometimes the Vietnamese language is interesting, and we just cannot translate into English. I hope you know what I mean. Or that when we came to that place, we heard the name in Vietnamese we start laughing, because that is something reminds us of the past when for example, when you find something a little bit old fashioned, but it still gives you a little bit feeling of the past and the history and culture and you kind of enjoying. We went to that shop, the hair salon, and they just have two very simple packages. One is to, to wash your hair with a facial treatment, okay, and although facial treatment, everything is made from natural herb and to be sure that you are safe in this environment. It is to be sure that all products provided by the shop are safe for your body and the environment. And as with traditional ways of doing thing, in the second package that we have is washing hair with a massage package for your shoulder, because we are office people, and we always need that. The session last for about half an hour, we were recommended to put away our phones, they told us to please take it away so that we can actually enjoy the moment in peace. So in that place, when you come to that, you know, I was very tempted to take some pictures of the place because I was impressed. It was so impressed. I couldn’t imagine that I can find such place in a city like Saigon. But then I was blown away by how beautiful it is. And people said to me: Just relax, close your eyes, and enjoy because life is very short not to enjoy the moment. So, I put my phone away completely and enjoyed the whole process. After getting my hair wash done. I was invited to a living room area when they did decorate the area in a way that reminds us of a Vietnamese traditional family that we have in the French colonial time. There are things that occur in a very indulgent style with all the tiles, furniture, the soft radio music. And they also have some groceries that you could find in that place, I remember many years ago when I was a kid, maybe six years old, I used to come to the local grocery stores to buy all those things. I loved the interesting language that they use to communicate at the place. And I feel like, okay, I’d love to share this experience to any traveler to Vietnam or especially those solo travelers who also have the need to for relaxation, but also learning also about culture. And this is what the Vietnamese was so proud to have. Kerry Newsome (28:27) That sounds wonderful, I'll definitely have to get the name of the place. And I'll put it in the show notes for everybody. And the translation and all that because I'll never be able to say it like, yeah, like you say it. So definitely, I'll put that in. It’s little things like that. I think as a solo traveler, you don't feel guilty about doing because you're not taking your time away from someone else or whatever. You can kind of be a little bit self-indulgent. And you can go, Oh, I think I'm going to have that half an hour or one hour treatment or you know and spoil yourself and I think those little gifts to yourself of kindness and, and just you know a little bit of compassionate time. We've been through some hard years. And I think that one of the things that I got from Vietnam in my last visit was just a feeling of invigoration. I was allowed to spend some time with some friends get invigorated by the kind of the upbeat vibe. Always think that Vietnam’s got an upbeat vibe I don't know, I can't explain it any other way but it's ‘up’ and wherever you go. There's kind of that maybe it's just me, maybe I just you know, attract all the upbeat people. Camellia Dinh (29:45) I don't know. Okay, even I'm Vietnamese living here in Vietnam. It’s the vibe, and you get to challenge yourself every day and things happening so fast and you see new things coming up your way, one after another. Today you see one event, then tomorrow you see something else coming up. It's very dynamic. Kerry Newsome (30:10) Very dynamic. And as I said, like as a female travel solo example, I probably wouldn't travel by myself in Australia. That's a funny thing to say, isn't it? I've gone to visit friends on my own? So, I've got friends in Cairns and Melbourne and whatever, and I'll go on my own, but I go straight to them. But just to go and take off like I take off around Vietnam. I would never do that in Australia. I don't know why, but I just wouldn't. And I think people would look at me as if I had two heads if I did. You know, in Vietnam, they don't look at me strangely. And I do meet some great people. And, you know, the other thing I want to take up with you is about the empowerment of women. In Vietnam, Vietnamese women, I often hear people saying, oh, “so and so” has got a business. But the real power behind that business is the wife, or the mother, or the daughter, or the female is the one that is obviously the enterprising one or the, you know, the energetic one or whatever. But I hear it a lot. Is that something you hear as well that women have the power behind the things happening? Camellia Dinh (31:40) - International Womens Day’s Kind of thing? Yes, that is a very interesting topic. And this has brought it in, I think, and the very right moment. There's a few days. I'm not sure. Actually, tomorrow already, is the 20th of October is our Vietnamese Women's Day. Okay, in Vietnam, we actually have two Women's Day, I don't think any other country would have that you might have a Mother's Day. Some of the Father's Day. But in here, we have two Women's Day. The first one is actually on the 8th March, called the International Women's Day, I think it was for Vietnam, being part of the Soviet Union in the past that we celebrate those days together. So that was one of our big day, celebrating International, international, and women’s. And the Vietnamese Women's Day, which is tomorrow is also founded by the Vietnamese union here for women to celebrate our work and what we contribute to the country. That just to one of those proof, to have the proof is to see how much Vietnam as a country being moving ourselves to empower women, and we celebrate our women as well. But I think sometimes when we, when I tried to explain things in certain way, I tried to look deeper into the history and culture and try to explain, because I do believe that everything happened for a reason. And it's happened for decades. I think it probably was something that days long ago and for the longest time that we wouldn't know. So I tried to file down and try to understand why the woman in Vietnam, like you said, have so much power. And you're right, the mother in the family, she actually is called for everything. Yeah. I think if we go back into 50 years, even during the Vietnam War, we often think about the women as when the family would be a loving mother because to their children, lovely wife, to the husband, but she also a fighter during the war. And when it comes into the economy, she's also a social worker. So, the women you get an Amahs, you're wearing so many different hats. And the row is very important. And just imagine one day, I come home and my mom stopped cooking. Like, we all ended up having nothing to eat. That is very traditional. The role of the woman in the family is already important. But what happened in the work environment. I believe in hospitality industry, but I think it happens to most our country as well. That the majority of workers in the hospitality industry and tourism industry are female. I think there are some unique attributes to that because women in general, we have the tendency to care for people. We take care of people better. We know how to talk better than men. I hope there's no men listening to us right now. Not saying we are better. Kerry Newsome (34:51) Forgive us. Camellia Dinh (34:52) I think so, and when it comes to communication, we know how to express our feelings better. So that also helps when it comes to understanding other people feeling. And for us here is about how to deliver customer service better as well that we need to put ourselves into the shoes of the customer to understand that. But also, once you understand that you will be able to know how to communicate with them in clear language, I think that is a gift that only women would have. So that is really in general. But when it comes into empowerment in Vietnam, and the only way we can create, we all know when we start looking to compare to other countries, sometime I would say okay, if we just have a quick look when it comes into the bigger situation in Asia, even coming to China, or Korea or Japan, I actually think in Vietnam, we are quite fortunate, in a way, because I do feel like the women in Vietnam are much more dynamic, of course, this is my personal opinion that I look into our history. And I was very impressed myself knowing that in many other countries, you used to have a king to rule in in the country, right? Throughout the history, you had either a king or an emperor, they were mostly men. But for Vietnam, we had our first female King since year 40. Four-Zero. So, when you travel to Vietnam, you see the road named “Hai Ba Trung”, right? It was named after the Trung sisters who were our first female kings. Until today, we still read about them as well as other Vietnamese heroines, like the Lady Trieu. And throughout the wars and history time, we had so many female fighters, they stood up for the country, and we've been looking up to them, and we learn from them. And that actually, I think they become the role model. When we have a closer look at that, yes, as Vietnamese women, we have our soft features, we have our traditional values that we want to keep to being feminine, to being lovable people. But when it comes to work, and when it come into protecting the thing that we love, we also real fighters. And when it comes to that, it just can help being so proud of who we are as Vietnamese women and the opportunity that we have today also to tie in different aspects of life. Kerry Newsome (37:31) Vietnam Women’s Museum And I think that's the aspect of females that I see in Vietnam as well, I see that strength. And I see when hardship comes, that the female sometimes is quicker to come up with a way to earn some money to feed their family. Because as you say, they have that care factor, they have that family that that is their primary. So I've seen women come up with these business ideas, or all of a sudden very quickly be able to earn some money to be able to sell some things at the markets or do something very quickly, that will be able to feed their family and give their family support, where the men are trying to obviously get bigger jobs and things like that. There female partner or their mother or the women in the family seem to rally together and are able to, I don't know, pull magic out of the air almost, you know, you'll find them in the markets. And I'll talk to someone they'll say yes, you know, she said she's her family's had a very hard time, she now comes in, she sells fruit and vegetables that she picks up in the farms, like just that very quick, that they will jump into a position of being enterprising and use that strength. The other thing I don't know whether you've been to in Hanoi, have you been to the Vietnam women's Museum? Yes. Isn't that a stunning place, and that is just floors and floors of, I guess the history. I think each floor is almost like a chapter of history in Vietnam, of women, and how they have progressed through history, including, as you say, fighting in the various wars for the French and the American etc. And seeing them you know, one minute a mother, the next week, you know, a gun the next week, you know, wearing an Ao Dai, you know, like they can wear many hats, as you say. And the minority groups a sectioned out, as well so that you can see how their lives were so totally and utterly dependent on the land and what the land could provide for their family. So really a great place to visit for everyone in Hanoi. Would be to spend some time to go to that museum. Definitely recommend it. Is there anything you want to finish off with any kind of “do's and don'ts” for our women who are listening who are saying, gee, I think I could do this, I can I could come to Vietnam on my own and do my own thing. Do we? Do you want to leave with any passing comments? Camellia Dinh (40:19) Well Kerry, anything with you being a professional travel up to Vietnam many times. So, I think we trust that you know so much that Vietnam is a safe country, and also now you have me here. So, all right, I'm so glad to be part of the podcast today. So, you know, you have one more contact. If I could recommend something for all female traveler, I would recommend as well we do research in advance, on anywhere we traveled to in the world, right, we need to do our research, not only about safety is number one, of course your safeties are important to us. I reassure that Vietnam is very safe, I still am just going to keep repeating say that Vietnam is very safe, but even more on to finding the experiences that are going to be more suitable for you based on the amount of time that you have in the countr; which places that you would like to travel; maybe you want to go to mountainous area, or beach or city area as well. And I think one of the greatest tip’a that I could get would be if you could find a friend in the country, in the in the host country for a example now Kerry knows me, she would contact me in advance, share with me the agenda, see if we can meet along the way. And from time to time. I keep telling Kerry, if you have any questions at all, if you need any help, even when you are in Hanoi, I mean, Saigon, because I can still help. My friends are everywhere. So, there's some certain benefits when you know, a local version. So that's something that you can rely on. Kerry Newsome (41:56) And it's kind of one of the reasons why I'm going to be putting some special tours together for 2023 that will have people that you're right, that can kind of give people a little bit more confidence that they can reach out to someone. I've also got a girlfriend in Danang, who, you know, I'll let her know that I'm coming. And she'll say, well watch out, you know, this week, is Typhoon maybe you know, whatever is coming, so or make sure you bring a jacket or things just little things like that. Or if I want to ask you about something in Saigon there's a show that it's coming up or, you know, we know the restaurant, would you recommend it for, you know, a family celebration or something like that. I really value that. I think that the local insight that someone like yourself or some people that I'm going to have really helps. I think it does give you just another level of confidence in your travel experience. Camellia Dinh (42:55) Kerry, you just mentioned also sorry, in the interview. You just mentioned that your friend remind you to bring a jacket. That's something I want to bring up as well because the weather in Vietnam is very interesting. And we say it's not just like another Bangkok or Singapore where it's all year-round weather. We have very cold winter in northern Vietnam. So, before we travel, probably a bit more research or especially having a friend who tell you if you need to bring a jacket that would be great. Right now, what I'm staying in Saigon we still have warm weather in central Vietnam is a little warm my right now, with all the rainy season we just had, in Hanoi it is starting to get really cold. Kerry Newsome (43:41) Freezing in Hanoi in January. I couldn't believe it. I was literally walking shops to find big puffer jackets, you know those ones with a big puffer line. I was just so cold. Believe it I thought you know what you what was I thinking? No? Jacket. So, it was one of the first podcasts. And one of the in the trip planning ones in my show. I made sure I'd clearly identified that. You know, it's not all hot all year round, everywhere. It's certainly the case. Thank you very much for being on the show. I've loved having you. I knew you'd be brilliant to talk about this subject. And just want to say thanks again for your time. Camellia Dinh (44:23) Yeah, thank you so much, Kerry, and I look forward to catching up with you again soon. Time stamps 4.36 - Factors influencing more solo female travel 8.26 -Camellia’s solo experience of Dalat 11.54 -Distinct advantages of solo travel 14.09 -Best places to visit in Vietnam 16.22 -Why Kerry chooses Hoi An as her base? 20.44 - Camellia explains Vietnam’s openness to all cultures, religions and communities 25.16 - A “hair” experience like no other to enjoy 31.40 - The history behind International Women’s Day 34. 52 - The story of a King being a Queen in Vietnam 37.31 - Vietnam Women’s Museum - a special place to visit 40.10 - Making a friend in Vietnam before you arrive can enrich your stay

420eb988-0e37-4d4d-b111-0c95c2f050f7Fast becoming a major draw card for adventure seekers. Vietnam's Phong Nha Caves - in depth Episode 22 S3-22 Phong Nha Caves in depth 00:00 / 58:17 Phong Nha as a location, is fast becoming the major draw card to Vietnam for adventure seekers. If its magical scenery and surprisingly clean and green flourishing forests you are seeking, then you will want to give some serious thought to Phong Nha caves. It has been said, passing through the different caves, that the stunning landscapes will make you believe the myths about fairies, and magical kingdoms, while the magnificent scenery will continue to enchant you. And let's not forget the enormity of some of them. Some are big enough to fit skyscrapers in. My guest on the show, is Howard Limbert. Howard has been caving for 32 years and was part of the leadership team which discovered Son Doong, in 2009. Just in case you didn't know, this cave is now touted as the largest cave on the planet. I was fortunate to catch up with Howard and he has a great way of describing the caves in such a way that you feel you are already there. OR, it is something you'd love to experience. There are literally hundreds of caves and a tour variety for all types of explorers. This show covers the main Oxalis run tours, that operate over 1,2,3 and 4 days. It covers EVERYTHING you need to know to make a smart choice for you and your group. Photos by OxalisAdventures.com. Click on the link to the right to see the Oxalis video. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

S6-E3 Do I need a Visa to enter Vietnam < Back S6-E3 Do I need a Visa to enter Vietnam S6-E3 Do I need a Visa to enter Vietnam 00:00 / 22:41 Series 6 Episode 3 Do I need a Visa to enter Vietnam Let’s start with one of the most important questions you need to answer before you get too far into booking or planning your trip to Vietnam. Why? Because this one question quietly underpins everything else. It sounds simple — but this is where so many people come unstuck. I can’t stress this enough: if you don’t ask yourself this question early , you can end up choosing the wrong visa, applying for something you didn’t need, or realising far too late that one small decision here has shaped your whole trip. And what is an eVisa? In this episode of What About Vietnam – One Question at a Time , I break down the “Visa Entry question” into clear, bite-size pieces . I’ll explain who actually needs a visa, who doesn’t, and I’ll walk you through how to apply for a Vietnam eVisa properly and what to double-check so it doesn’t derail your trip. If you’re coming from the UK, Europe, the US, Australia or elsewhere, the answer to the ultimate question here is: it depends ! Some passports qualify for Vietnam’s 45-day visa-free entry, others don’t. Some trips work perfectly on visa-free. Others absolutely don’t. And then there’s the eVisa — which is simple, but also incredibly easy to mess up if you don’t pay attention to the details. In this episode, I walk you through: The most common eVisa mistakes I see: Wrong dates Wrongly spelling, middle name missing on EVisa but is in Passport Passport details don’t match Wrong entry point Applying too late (and panic-fixing it) This episode will help you: ✅ Choose the right entry option for your trip ✅ Avoid last-minute stress and costly mistakes ✅ Start your Vietnam journey calm, confident, and prepared So this is “cautious Kerry”, signing off on One Question at a time Series 6-Ep3 Please take the time to explore other episodes, stories, and resources at whataboutvietnam.com there’s lots there to help you think things through. Please take the time to explore the link to more information - https://www.whataboutvietnam.com/visa-info and for the direct link to the official Immigration site go Here - https://evisa.gov.vn/ Do you have a travel question or wish to give some feedback? You have 90 seconds. Click to read the voicemail recording policy Previous Next

940709d2-c571-4afa-887e-c01f442e35f7Monkeys in the wild at Son Tra Nature Reserve Danang What About Vietnam - S2-22 Visit Danang and see monkeys in the wild at the Son Tra Nature Reserve Kerry Newsome: [00:00:01] Hello Thanh, how are you? Thanh : [00:00:57] Hello, Kerry, and your lovely audience. I am really well, thank you. Kerry Newsome: [00:01:06] Ok, that is great to hear, Thanh. Now tell us something about the Son Tra Nature Education Centre and the Son Tra Nature Reserve. What can you tell us? Thanh : [00:01:36] I believe that a lot of you have visited now the most liveable city in Vietnam. And when you are looking down to the city from the airport, you have you see something green coming up from the water and you can feel curious later on. Thanh : [00:01:54] Upon arrival, you will see that green, lush plantation almost wherever you are in the city. [00:02:04] Son Tra Nature Reserve was established in nineteen seventy seven and the Son Tra Peninsula used to be an isolated island before 15th century. But thanks to the accumulation of silt from rivers, the only way from the city to the peninsula has gradually formed. The size of the peninsula isn't big is four thousand three hundred and seventy hectares. [00:02:47] And can you believe that it plays a significant role in local life? First of all, it is the frontier protecting the city from storm which come from the ocean. Secondly, it can provide oxygen for four million people, not only one million population of Danang and the people who live here or come for a visit. They can see the nature and ten minute, which is incredible. If you travel to the other places in Vietnam, that is not feasible because in Hanoi or HCMC the main city, the traffic is terrible and even the other locations are pretty far away in the remote parts. [00:03:56] So in nature reserve is such a precious gem of the city and everybody here is blessed. Can you believe that they see the blue sky every day and fresh air is just a pleasant life experience. [00:04:29] Unfortunately, the reserve has been threatened by human activities such as illegal hunting and poaching. But the more serious issue is the building of resorts and hotels or mass tourism development. [00:04:53] And it was the reason why Greenviet, a local non profit organization, decided to establish St. Charles Asia Education Center in 2018 and through founders believed that education will have to save the situation before it becomes too late. [00:05:24] And our main visitors are students or university students because they are willing to make changes. Otherwise, they are either fearful or too old to make any changes. [00:05:51] The Nature Education Centre is spacious because. It was built on a rental space in the Sunshine District is the last available, not fully occupied neighbourhood in the city. So the housing price is insanely expensive. Can you believe the housing price is about, two fifty thousand US dollar for one hundred square meter, and it is covid price, it used to be higher. Yeah. So Greenviet doesn't have the money to buy a place. They built a temporary education center with the hope that the city council would appreciate their effort and issue a better location. Unfortunately, since it was established in 2018, our voice hasn't been heard and we have struggled a lot, especially since the Covid outbreak has stopped us from welcoming visitors and donors. Yeah. Kerry Newsome : [00:07:28] Just let me interject here just to give perspective for our listeners. So the reserve is located just a little bit out of Danang, isn't it? About 10 kilometers, maybe five to 10 kilometers. [00:07:53] Kerry, the peninsula is located in the north east of the north, and if someone stays in the city center or an expat neighborhood, the traveling distance would be from 7 to 10 km, but it takes them only 15 or 20 minutes to get there. Kerry Newsome : [00:08:24] Yes. Yes. So it's very close, as you say, and beautiful and green and lush. So for a new visitor, as you say, they arrive into Danang airport. What would you suggest for a new visitor if they would like to come and visit this area? Thanh: [00:08:51] I want to tell you a thing, everybody can rent a scooter, a manual bike and do an exploration by himself, but he is kindly requested to pay us a visit so that he can learn about the biodiversity and what should he do or shouldn't do when he is doing his trip. Because I'm in the peninsula is home of more than one thousand three hundred individuals of restaurant langurs, the queen of Primate's. [00:09:44] If he follows our guidance, he will have the opportunity to see them in the wild. And the other monkeys. Yeah, red langurs, early feeding monkeys. They are so beautiful that they were considered the queen of primates. [00:10:10] So there are more than seven hundred kinds of primates around the world, rushing to the Langurs as they are the most beautiful ones. And therefore it's called the Queen. The Primate. And another name can sound funny, which is the pop monkey. [00:10:35] The five color four refers to the pop's coat, or we have named them the Soldier Monkey because their front head looks like those soldiers hat. Yeah. Kerry Newsome [00:11:00] Interesting. [00:11:01] Yes. Yes, absolutely. So tell us, some of the things a visitor should know before they go into that area like so that they are respectful of the reserve. Thanh: [00:11:18] Uh, first of all, if they want to do a trip on their own, a motorbike is a good option because if they drive around in a day, 90 km can take them a few hours already. Right. And imagine if they walk 90 kilometres, it will take forever. The good motorbike should be equipped with a good brake and gear. Do not forget to fuel the tank or check your tires, because once you go up there, you won’t see a petrol station or a mechanic shop. I myself once had to push the bike for several kilometres. Yeah, it wasn't so warm. And so they should, they should choose the proper outfits. Green or dark colours are really good because they make the large animals less afraid of strangers. Walking shoes, sandals, sneakers are much better than flip flops or high heels. Come on, you don't want to take selfie pictures there because it doesn't matter how much effort you put in. [00:13:05] The nature is just beautiful, breathtaking, and you feel speechless. So if you try to spend time or taking selfie pictures. I highly recommend you to take pictures of the magnificent flora and fauna species which you should learn about before going so. Kerry Newsome : [00:13:45] So let me jump in here. So do you suggest. The person go to the education center first, yeah, and then go to the reserves, so they go in with better understanding of what to look for in the flora and fauna. Thanh: [00:14:03] Mhm. Yeah. Because my centre does organize several excursions upon requests, but we are busy doing researches and arranging meaningful activities for the society. [00:14:24] So some people may not know about us before coming and they won't be able to join our trips so they can go to the center, gain the better understanding and then explore on their own. [00:14:46] We will always give them several survival tips like;- do not feed the life of animals, do not stare at the macaques or some kind of safety instruction, you know, not driving fast and furious. You are not in the movie. You want to come back home in one piece. You know, this is an alarm. [00:15:22] So you have to put your hands on the gears firmly and stay focused. I mean, we really hope that the visitors will spread information about the peninsula more and more people. So, you know, one person can teach others. Kerry Newsome : I get it. So are the monkeys friendly? [00:16:02] Or do you need to be careful around the monkeys? Thanh: [00:16:07] So in southern China, there are several other kinds of parks and recreation, duck, langurs, plush vegetation. So they are nice and kind. They are usually camera shy. So when we see them, we should keep a distance so that they won't run away from us. [00:16:40] We want to take great pictures of their shining coat, the adorable families or their interesting daily life activities. They will be cautious. The fathers make some noises to his family, like, oh, some strangers around, everybody watch out. [00:17:13] But as long as we hold our camera or take pictures with our phones and we don't show any harmful gestures, then we are OK. They can give us several minutes and they leave or some will like us and stay with us for a while by the time we are safe with our friend. OK, Langurs. The attacks, on the other hand, should get some of your attention. Macaques are very smart, but you can think about them as the witches. They like to take your belongings, they wait for your food or they want to scare you. They can scare you to death? Yeah. There are two kinds of macaques, the wild ones and the ones which used to be pets. So the wild ones are really protective. They see you coming and they will make the loud, alarming sound and she will want up play along. They think you are ready to fight back and they call the other members of the flocks and come and start the fight. Or if they see you pulling something out of your pocket, they think that, aha, you are prepared and they like to take your belongings first. You know, like now you are not armed and you cannot cause any harm to them. The second kind which used to be pets, they would be the pain in your neck because they lose the ability to find food on their own. They would rather gather along the main road, especially the parts in front of Intercontinental Hotel. They make the drivers sit on a lot of nerve. The drivers do not want to hit and run away. Right. But it can be unavoidable in certain circumstances. And can you believe you lock the car, you lock your bike and you stand on the pavement, take pictures of flowers and the landscape. And when you come back, they sit on your bikes or under your car looking at you like trick or treat, you know, like give me food or I'm not gonna leave! Kerry Newsome : [00:20:45] How do they attack you? Are they vicious? [00:20:51] Yeah, especially if they see you carrying some food and not willing to give them in their country. And also in India, China, Thailand, Macacs have cost tremendous problems. Everybody love the cute babies and they think, oh, I just want to do him a favour. I cannot resist this cuteness and people have changed their natural instinctive behaviors. Instead of trying to find the food and feeding themselves in the life they have become “sport pets”. You know, in the life market, a baby monkey is asking for one thousand five hundred US dollar, but the owner only wants to keep him for a few months or maybe a year or two later on. The baby monkey grows up and loses the cuteness. He will start to expose the wild characteristics, you know, cranky, fighting or wrecking family. You don't want to have something sitting in your house, right? So the owners will take them back to the forest and say, off you go, let them go. [00:22:44] That time, you know, they have no skill and they have no skills needed to survive. And it is crazy. [00:22:57] But for a tourist, I'm thinking, gee, I'm not sure where I would feel comfortable going there knowing that as you call them, the MACKA could possibly attack me or put me in a position that I was frightened. Kerry Newsome : [00:23:21] So how do you protect yourself from that? Thanh: [00:23:24] Oh, honestly, I would give people advices regarding on which time frame would work. [00:23:38] For example, tell us that if you want to go to Lady Buddha or Intercontinental Hotel and the adjacent areas, you should definitely avoid the late afternoon show from three pm. The local people would love to visit the mansion places because the breeze, the sun, everything is just perfect. And the local people have been blinded by their emotion. They do not care about the warning signs. They carry the food and they even make fun of the macaques. So from three p.m. and onwards, you see my car sitting on the road fighting for food and local visitors are laughing ridiculously. [00:24:46] And I would recommend visitors, foreign visitors to check out those places earlier in the day. And of course, I will be willing to share with you the few map roads you can drive up there and see the last known part of the peninsula where you will be able to see the wild macaques. But keep in mind, there are safety instruction because it's not pleasant being bothered by many shouting noise, you know? [00:25:32] Oh, I'm taking picture…. of why are you trying to make me go away. Please understand that we are intruders. We invade their privacy. [00:25:47] But yes, if they get mad at us, we should feel like it's a part of the experience. Kerry Newsome : [00:25:58] Yes, I know I have been to Son Tra a couple of times, but more to the area where they are developing some small areas where resorts and beautiful beaches and things. And I've also been to the top of the hill, which has got an amazing view of the city and the coastline. But I had been warned about the monkeys in the in the forest. And when I went to visit Lady Buddha, my friend who took me on a motorbike, she said, we go early, very early in the morning so that we will avoid most of the harassment of the monkeys that you mention. And we still get the sunrise so that we can capture the beautiful photography, which we did. And it was an amazing experience for me. I just loved it. But it's good to know from you just a little bit more about the aspect of it being a nature reserve that we need to protect. We need to protect the plant species and the animal species that is their home. It is what is their land, their space and their part of the planet. So, as you say, we are the intruder. So we need to be aware of this. And something I want for the people listening is to still have a look at the options available to visit this area, get a better understanding from your education centre. [00:27:47] I'm going to put all the links in the episode notes that people can jump on and find out more information and then people can use that as a bit of a guide. I want people to go there with some having done some research into this area because it's still worth going. But go into it with your eyes wide open and with some knowledge to make the visit pleasant as possible. Keeping in mind that there is some elements that may not be always easy to manage. Which you have really done well to explain to us that, you know, being mindful of food and the precarious nature of some of these monkeys is not always they tease you and they screech and they can be a menace to you in your experience. The red necked monkeys, they are a little bit different in their nature. And we need to be respectful of that. As you say, talking about taking selfies. Yeah, we want to try to minimize the selfies and take more of the flora and fauna and the area as such and hopefully some beautiful vistas and views. Kerry Newsome :[00:29:19] Just to finish up. [00:29:22] I want to just cover off if we can, what a visitor or a person that has an interest in this area in biodiversity and would like to support Green, what can they do to help support this, your organization. Thanh: [00:29:45] Kerry, that is so nice of you. Of course, my NGO needs a lot of that. And as I mentioned earlier, being a non-profit organization is not easy. So the founders of the NGO have always done our consulting work or extra words so that they can sustain the NGO and do the good things for the peninsular and the local people. We need to protect the primates, including the Clangers and the macaques, because they are considered our ancestors. Let's say the restaurant at languorously they share 98 percent of 80 and similar to with human and the premise they have family structures, they have the similar eyes to us. We caught monocular eyes that can observe different colors and they are really smart. Thanks to the big brains. They take care of each other. They use tools. I mean, there's so much for us to learn from them. They play another role in pollination. Or can you believe that a kidney of Russia's mopac, one species in southern China can be extracted for a few hundred kinds of vaccines that save people's life? So we need to protect them because if they are gone, they are gone forever. [00:31:54] And it's really sad that in the past my country suffered poverty and hunger. People would eat everything. Nowadays, the situation is not the same. But people are using wild animal products, including primates, medicines and makeup, whatever you can name into my NGO founders think that is unfair for the environment. Why the animals have to suffer. They have the right to live their life as we do so they have to try enormously to code for the participation of local people and foreigners. So we need to protect the peninsula. We don't want hotels and resort to be built there because where the sewage will go, how the trash will be handled and if someone is capable of. Controlling the place, we won't be able to go there without paying a fee, you should relate to Ba Na Hills Hills like once upon a time you could go to the nature reserve there. But nowadays you have to pay for the US dollar for a cable car ticket. And it is compulsory. We want to save the place for everybody for this generation and the future to come. [00:33:55] So the most important message would be as individuals or groups, please. Stop taking the peninsula for granted. Primates are not our pets, not our meals or medication. For example, we always need volunteers to help us with giving lectures in English lessons for all ages and our translating documents. Or you can make donations so that you can join us in this long and tiring journey. Kerry Newsome : [00:34:54] Ok, I. I know you have a busy day ahead of you, so we will finish up now. [00:35:01] I just want to say thank you very much. I will put the links to the education centre in the episode notes. And of course, we will share this, so one person or another person will share with another person, hopefully. I hope that you have been able to learn a little bit more about this area, as I have. And I think going into it with your eyes wide open is the best way to do it so that you can have a very pleasant experience of this beautiful area. Thanks, Thanh. Thanh: [00:35:39] Oh, it is my honor. And I really hope that I will be able to welcome you. Together, we can make the place become better and well protected. Kerry Newsome : [00:36:04] Thanks, Thanh

b868f2ec-a4d3-44f8-858f-22a338ceff8eDiscover a world time forgot at Bac Ha markets What About Vietnam - S2-24 Explore the Bac Ha Markets – Rich in colour and tradition Kerry Newsome: [00:00:32] Now, today, I'm going to be talking to you about the Bac Ha markets. Now, this is a region that has fascinated me for a long time, and the reason being that it has so much color to it. I know a little bit about the color aspect being in the flower Hmong people, which the market is really all about. So just to rewind the clock back a little bit to give some context, tell us, Mike, how you first came to visit the Bac Ha markets and like, what attracted you to go there in the first place? Mike Pollock: [00:01:14] Well, the story really begins with Sa Pa. I went to Sa Pa for three days, I knew nothing about Sa Pa. I did zero research on it. I just got on a bus and went up there and I loved it. I was absolutely fascinated by the people. Their wonderful way of life is fascinating. And of course, the landscape and the scenery are just spectacular. So after my three-day trip, after three days, I left Sa Pa for about three weeks. I rearranged my entire life and I ended up spending a great deal of time there. I learned more and more about the region. I made friends with people who are happy to be in the travel business, their tour guides, tour organizers. So that's all you have to go to. You have to go to Bac Ha. So on the first trip to Bac Ha, I was in love with Bac Ha, too. And again, it's a combination of the people, their way of life, and the stunning season. Kerry Newsome: [00:02:28] And as you say, the stunning scenery, the people, because of their beautiful costumes, just the whole landscape, everything there is has got to be for a photographer like yourself, like, oh, wow, I could spend a lot of time here, right? Mike Pollock: [00:02:50] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Kerry Newsome: [00:02:53] Because you see the photos everywhere when anyone is selling Vietnam when you look at a brochure or whatever. I don't know. But you'd swear to God the flower Hmong people were everywhere in Vietnam, not just in the north. Sure. Yeah. Mike Pollock: [00:03:08] And the same thing with photographs of the iconic rice terraces, too. You see the same pictures of the same rice fields all over the Internet. Kerry Newsome: [00:03:18] Exactly. And like when people arrive in Vietnam and they're in Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh and there are 300 million motorbikes, they're not quite the same as the rice field picture, I think. Mike Pollock: [00:03:31] Well, that's another thing, too. I mean, far northern Vietnam is radically different from other urban centers. It's so much different. You know. Kerry Newsome: [00:03:44] It is. Let's dive a little bit deeper now into how do we get to Bac Ha, because it's a trip, isn't it? There's a trip involved. And it's not just getting to Sapa, it's beyond Sapa. Now, you've written a great article on your website, which I'm going to put the link on the episode notes, too. But can you talk to my listeners just about the mode of transport, the best mode of transport and just timings? Do you know how we had a joke before about how long things take? If you could just speak to that, that'd be great. I think everyone would benefit. Mike Pollock: [00:04:23] Well, you hear of a few different options. And, of course, that combines very easily with Sa Pa.. And if you think, of course, both these are districts and provinces, Lao City is the transportation hub of the province. So if you're going to go to Sa Pa. Or you're going to go to Bac Ha, chances are you're going to at least drive through Lao Chi Lao City. So to answer your question, now that I've gone through all that, you have several options. You can take the train up to Lao City, which I believe you know all about. And then from the train station in Lao City, it's very easy to get either a van or a minibus , which is roughly two hours from Lao City Center. You also have the bus option, you can take a bus to the city from Hanoi. And there are a few direct buses running between Hanoi and Bac Ha. There was a night bus for sure, some of us don't really care for nine buses and there's also a daytime bus that runs all the way up to a similar high. So you have a couple of options there. And then, of course, if you're going to combine back and Sa Pa, that's very easy to do with a combination of either public bus and local bus. And there's also a shuttle that runs directly from Sa Pa to Bac Ha every afternoon and Sa Pa to Bac Ha is roughly a three-hour journey. Kerry Newsome: [00:06:12] Ok, and I wanted to bring this up earlier with people because I wanted to set some realities for people in the journey side of things, because if you've done the overnight train and you kind of get out of that train in the morning, and I remember I was pretty shattered. And then the thought of then another two to three hours onto that, that was kind of a bit for me to take on. And I've heard some of the other people that have traveled into this area, they've kind of said, oh, gee, I wish that I sort of got off and been able to chill out for a while, maybe in Sopore itself and maybe have a rest day and then do it the next day or try and add some more time into the day and the whole adventure of the region because I think if you go into these places and you're tired. Your weariness inhibits you from enjoying it to the full max because you just weary and you kind of need to take a breather. No one will tell you the real time in Vietnam is to drive me crazy because I'd say I'd get in a car or a van or know how long it is going to take. And they don't want to tell you that the road is got, you know, twenty-five switchbacks and it's going to take.. Mike Pollock: [00:07:45] You three hours. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Travel overland, travel in and around Vietnam and all of Southeast Asia can be extremely slow. And it is difficult to say exactly how long the journey is going to take, you know, so you have to have some patience there. But the thing about these markets, I should mention this is they start very early in the morning. People are setting up their stalls before sunrise. And the market by the Bac Ha market, in particular, will be very busy by about 10:00 a.m. And then by about noon, people are going home. So the best way to tackle this is to get there the night before. And you sleep there the night before, if you sleep in Bac Ha on Saturday night and they have what they call a night market cultural show, and it's really not so much of a night market, but they do have a stage in the town center run by the little temple downtown, uptown Bac Ha. And every Saturday night there's a performance of not just Hmong people, but also to forget all the ethnic groups that get on the stage and their full costume. And they do a dance show. And I don't think this is really a tourist-orientated thing. They just they're really the people that are really into the culture. We've talked about this before. Mike Pollock: [00:09:16] They're very into the traditional costume, traditional music, traditional instruments, a traditional dance. So anyway, so you get to Bac Ha the night before you get up early, get to the market early before it gets too crowded, particularly if you're a photographer. This is key. You want to get to the market before it gets crowded and before the sun gets too high in the sky so that you can get some nice clean images, and have some nice light. And then depending on your interest, a couple of hours in the market might be enough, and then what you can do is head to the north of Bac Ha anywhere and back our head up north towards the border of China. And the scenery is just absolutely beautiful. And that's easy to do. You can rent a motorcycle if you're qualified to do so. You can hire someone to drive you around on a motorcycle you could hire or car. You can even do some of it. If you're a little bit adventurous by public transportation or buses that run north of the city, that'll get you to a foreign city. If you're into trekking, you can hire a local guide to take your truck in or you can go trek around by yourself. But the district is absolutely beautiful. It's a typical rural Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: [00:10:37] So, you know, good lead in to just talking about Hmong people, because everything I've read is that this Sunday's a big day for them, isn't it? They come from far and wide and the women in particular dress up, if that's the word, in the traditional costumes. So talk to us a little bit about what they sell, what they try. You know how the gig actually, guys, what can I expect to say? Mike Pollock: [00:11:08] Ok, well, if you read any Vietnamese travel articles or travel blogs about these markets, what it translates into English, it always translates into fair. People say there's a Sunday fair in Bac Ha and that's kind of what it is. And you're exactly right. That Hill people not just from Bac Ha but they'll come from neighboring Hoang Su Phi, Ha Giang Province. They'll come from a long area to go to this market exactly, and they will trade many traditional things. livestock where they trade buffalo, horses, goats, pigs, chickens, ducks, that sort of thing. But they also sell handmade farming equipment. I mean, these people are farmers. They might have a side job of some sort, but somewhere during the day, they're going to do some farming. And the Hmong people are famous for making steel implements that range anything from a knife to a machete. They are the working part of a wooden plow, the steel pulled behind a buffalo. So there's a lot of traditional handmade tools in addition to the clothing that we've talked about, the cloth of the dye, the thread necessary to make these products all kinds of local potions, Kerry Newsome: [00:12:34] Happy water, Mike Pollock: [00:12:35] Happy water. Yeah, we can talk about a lot of water and people come and people come to the market and they make a day out of it themselves. The food stalls are always full, chock full of locals eating fall or whatever it is. And it is a big day out for them too. You'll see the little children running around getting ice cream and dads having a little hot water while mothers sell corn or whatever it is. It's a big day for the people. You know, it's not even the tourists who go to these things. It's not really directed at the tourists. It's a local thing. Kerry Newsome: [00:13:18] And that kind of for me, begs the question on how to best experience that from a language perspective, because sometimes when I go to these places, especially because I try and get there early before the typical busload arrives and like we don't know in the future with covid, et cetera, maybe they won't be big busloads like they used to be. It kind of crosses our fingers on that one. But like, when you do get there, I almost feel like a bit of an invader because like I say, I've got blond hair, so I stand out like the proverbial and but when I get in there, I do feel a little bit noticeably. A tourist, and then I feel like I'm kind of inviting in this space. Do you recommend going with a guide to get a better experience or language-wise? It's a little bit tricky. Mike Pollock: [00:14:21] I, I will hire guides to go to markets on occasion. And the main reason is just the language barrier because I really do want to have a chat with people. I really want to find out exactly what that funny-looking herb is that they're selling on the table. You know, you see the potions in the powders. I should have put your picture, but you know that you have these strange exotic herbs and tree bark and mushrooms and powders and more happy water. And I want to know exactly what this is. So it is useful to have a guide, Kerry Newsome: [00:15:03] In the soup. I always ask that question because, you know, let's just let's identify what I'm talking about. And I'm not a big fan of blood, bone, blood, anything that starts with blood. That's when I have a steak. It's well done so I can have it all. Mike Pollock: [00:15:28] But the thing is that any of these markers that you go to, you don't need to go into that section. You don't need to go to the butcher shop. You can stay in the vegetable market or it's nice. Kerry Newsome: [00:15:39] But if you want a snack and you want to have some soup and it kind of smells OK, but then. You know, Mike Pollock: [00:15:50] I think you don't fight, they give you order chicken soup when we say guy, you're getting chicken soup, it's time to bring this to the big mystery, Kerry Newsome: [00:16:03] All right. So suggestion wise is that. Yes, definitely get it. God, I mean, I. I always get a guide for language reasons. And because I think that they can just give you some insights that you wouldn't pick up on otherwise, you know, you're going to look at it with very Western eyes, but they're going to say, oh, well, that means that. And, you know, they can give some reference points, I think, that is most helpful. Mike Pollock: [00:16:31] Yeah, I agree with you for sure. Kerry Newsome: [00:16:34] All right. So when we're talking about, you know, things to buy for a Westerner, OK, we're not going to take any shovels or picks home with us. I'm certainly not riding any buffaloes or, you know, they're not doing trick or treat like that. So what am I going to be looking to buy as a souvenir. To take home. Mike Pollock: [00:17:02] Well, there are a number of stalls in these markets that cater specifically to tourists, tourist trinkets, many of which you will have already seen in Hanoi. But there are a lot of traditional handcrafts produced there that are traditional and handmade. And what you need to do is just look at the product before you buy it. Obviously, if it looks like it was made in a factory, it probably was. If it looks like grandmother made it at home, you know, it's very soft. It's got a little layer of dust on it. You know, that's a product that's handmade, handmade cloth, hand-done embroidery. I think you can figure it out. And if you dig through these stalls, you'll find a tremendous amount of traditional pieces. You just have to kind of scan around to look around a little bit. But I know since you mentioned that I don't have the proper name for it, but the Hmong flutes, you've probably seen pictures of the musical instruments you can buy. Those are so nice. That's a nice souvenir among musical instruments. Kerry Newsome: [00:18:15] Yeah, I have bought bedspreads. They are spectacular color-wise. You know, they buy and hang them up and you can go through and you choose the ones you want. And I kind of have a laugh with people like the ones where the threads are hanging out and there's probably a good chance that when you wash it the first time it'll fall apart. The authentic ones. If you wanted to stay together, you're probably better over that stall where it's probably made in a giant factory. You know, there are pluses and minuses, but I still have it because I love it, because when I touch it and I smell whatever, I feel like I was really bad. So, it does have some beautiful memories, but I wash it very, very carefully. Very delicately. All right. Let's just talk about times of the year, because another fascinating fact about Vietnam, which I think always seems to faze people, is that everyone thinks that Vietnam is hot all year round and they kind of just, what, Vietnam over and say, oh, you know, it's that hot. Yet I think you're going to agree with me in the north. It gets bloody cold all over. Mike Pollock: [00:19:50] They had a brutal winter last year. Kerry Newsome: [00:19:54] Certainly in this particular area in Sapa, it can get to freezing. It can get to snow. Mike Pollock: [00:20:03] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Basically in December, well into March, it is winter and it can be very cold, windy, and it can also be extremely foggy. Yes. What we call black fog or you or you can see 50 meters in front of you and that's about it. And the fog will get so thick and it basically starts to drizzle and everything is covered and covered in a mist. So the wintertime can be challenging. Yeah. Kerry Newsome: [00:20:38] And I think that missing all that fog that you talk about was something I didn't count on, and I think for a photographer that might strike you a bit crazy with the fog because you can't say 50 feet in front of you. Mike Pollock: [00:20:54] Well, yeah, the weather, in general, is very challenging there. But that's also sort of the magic of the place as well. You know, you wake up and it's your blanket in fog and mist and maybe a little bit of drizzle. And by noon, the sun is out and shining and it's extremely hot. And then the cycle repeats itself in the afternoon. Yes, the weather makes travel there interesting and it can make it a bit challenging. So like I said, winter times are tough and you need to bring warm clothes. You need to dress in layers and wear some kind of outer waterproof shell, carry an umbrella. Kerry Newsome: [00:21:34] Yeah, but if we're talking around that kind of march through til, what would we say, June, July, that's pretty pleasant, isn't it? Mike Pollock: [00:21:47] Yeah, I would say April is kind of the threshold. March can be, as I said, very challenging. But once you're in April, things are looking good. But then you have to remember that by June you're in the rainy season and it can be very, very wet there and during the rainy season. Kerry Newsome: [00:22:07] So peak times to visit, we should say, April. Mike Pollock: [00:22:12] And April, May and October, November, Kerry Newsome: [00:22:18] October, Mike Pollock: [00:22:19] November. Yeah, I like it. Well, September, you have all the rice. The rice is maturing and you have the beautiful rice fields, so I love September, but there's a good chance you're going to get a little wet now and again. Did you notice all the ladies in all carry an umbrella? Everybody carries an umbrella. I do, too, because when it's not raining, the sun comes up, the sun cooks the back of your neck, you break out your umbrella. Kerry Newsome: [00:22:48] It is genius. And I'm all for it. And you don't look, in some countries, they would kind of think you're a bit of a bit of a nut case. But in Vietnam, not a problem. I do it in a lot of places because you're right, it's handy for the wet when it just does a downpour for 20 minutes and then it's gone and the same when the sun comes out and with my skin. I gotcha on that one. Look for some areas a little bit around back that I did a little bit of research on. You mentioned the temple and and the and the Saturday night features, but there's a few little places around back. How did you venture further into those areas? Mike Pollock: [00:23:38] You see a significant portion of the district. As we mentioned earlier, there's many certainly America's most famous. And then there's a Saturday market about 19 kilometers to the north and Can Cau. But there's markets there, small markets every day. There's interesting markets. So I think six days a week. So you can if you missed the Sunday market, there's a Tuesday market in Coc Ly For example, Kerry Newsome: [00:24:08] I was going to mention Coc Ly. Mike Pollock: [00:24:09] Coc Ly’s setting. It's absolutely beautiful. It's off the main road. It's absolutely stunning season scenery. And you can combine that with hiring a car and driver, for example, take it from Sa pa to Coc Ly and then to Bac Har and make a road trip out of it. And there's another market on Wednesday, a market up by Si Ma Cai which is very worth doing as well. They have a nice buffalo market anyway. But as I mentioned before, these markets start early in the morning. So you get going early in the morning. You do a couple hours of the market and then you continue on and you can do some more sightseeing or trekking and explore the district. Kerry Newsome: [00:24:57] At your leisure, Mike Pollock: [00:24:58] At your leisure, exactly. Kerry Newsome: [00:25:01] So would you allow it properly, would you allow two nights, three nights? Mike Pollock: [00:25:07] Oh, easily. I could do that easily. And the other interesting thing about that is that for the weekend, markets are very well known. They're very popular. The town is quite busy. But Monday through Friday, the town itself is very, very quiet. If you want to escape the hustle and bustle, that's the place to do it. It's a very relaxing, quaint little town. Kerry Newsome: [00:25:32] So would you say this is the kind of thing that a family could do, like, you know, like a young family, you know, like, I think it's definitely a family thing to do and kids and anyone would just find it fascinating or do you? Mike Pollock: [00:25:49] Absolutely. I come across many, many families. And Bac Ha, you know, a lot of a lot of people do organize tours or I do have a car and driver, and it's very common to see families traveling that way. Kerry Newsome: [00:26:06] I would, however, suggest for people with, you know, like any difficulties as far as walking or, you know, they're not they're not good with the kind of endurance in heat if if if they're going at that time of year, maybe they take a Good car and I can drop them around a few places. Mike Pollock: [00:26:29] Well, the market in town is not an issue. It's in the infrastructure that surrounds the town. So there's no problem walking around there whatsoever. As far as the heat goes, as I already mentioned, you really want to get there early because the markets are done by and by high noon when the sun is cooking and Bac Ha can be very hot. We talk about holding it in the winter. In the summertime, it's pretty hot. So you want to get out early before it gets too hot. So some of the other markets could be a little bit challenging if you have some mobility issues. Yeah, not necessarily a deal breaker, but you have to maybe choose accordingly. Kerry Newsome: [00:27:19] Yeah, for sure. For sure. Let's talk just a little bit as we kind of finish off the episode, just about accommodation in the area. You and I had a bit of a laugh about home and just how liberally that that term gets shared around. So talk to us about it. Stay there. It's not, it doesn't have to be expensive. But just so people can manage their expectations about home status and accommodation, can you talk to us a little bit about your experiences there? Mike Pollock: [00:27:52] Yeah, well, there's the issue with the homestays that it's used to describe a big variety of accommodations. It's used literally: a homestay could be living in a traditional house the size of the mountain or you're sleeping on the floor with the chickens. Or it could be more like a guest house or whatever the United States we would call a motel. So, yeah, it varies widely. Generally speaking, I sleep in the hotels in the back of town. There's there's quite a few of them. They're very typical Asian Vietnamese style budget accommodations. They're very inexpensive, but they're very simple. And it makes it easy. Roll out of bed. You're at the market. If you go to the market, you need a little break. Very easy to find a place to have a coffee or a bowl of soup, as we mentioned earlier, run back to the hotel to get fresh batteries for my care or something like that. But surrounding the town itself, yes, there's many, many home stays and they really do range. There's a big range of homestays, I guess you have to choose your home state wisely, do some research on it. Kerry Newsome: [00:29:08] I know because I work with a tour company out of Hanoi and we have people who say to us, oh, no, we want to have the real authentic experience. We want to. And we tried to say, well, yes, we can do, but please understand that. And it's really hard to get a visual or give people a visual of just how humble some of these are, because you're talking about people's homes, how they live is how they kind of invite you into their typical home. So I always try to emphasize to people to get a real understanding of what that authenticity is. Can look and feel like when really you want a hot shower and a comfortable bed after a day out exploring, so I don't know whether you've actually invited friends, if your soul or shared home, stay home, stay indoors with people. But you're right, it's from one level of the needle to the other as far as, you know, what you can experience with home stays in that region in particular. Mike Pollock: [00:30:26] Yeah, a true home state. I said the traditional home state is just a couple steps above camping. Kerry Newsome: [00:30:34] Yeah, not even as good. Mike Pollock: [00:30:37] Know you are you're still you're sleeping on a bamboo mat, which is local style bamboo mat, Kerry Newsome: [00:30:44] Perhaps no chickens on my camping trip. Mike Pollock: [00:30:47] Ha ha ha ha ha. Kerry Newsome: [00:30:49] Right now, I leave them at home. Mike Pollock: [00:30:52] I will say one thing about the hot water, though. Anybody in North Vietnam who's serious about doing any sort of homestay has built a structure. Separate from the main house that contains a shower with hot water and a western toilet and a proper sink, pretty much every home stay in that area is going to have those basic amenities because the locals like hot water too. Kerry Newsome: [00:31:21] Yeah, and I think it's good to mention Western toilets because, you know, South East Asia is not always famous for Western toilets. So I like to hear that there's more and more Western toilets in that region. So that's good to know. Mike, just to finish off, I've been asking my guests recently to give me a word to describe travel and what it means to you. I mean, we're sitting in a very different world at the moment. You're sitting in Bac Ha. I'm sitting in Australia. And neither of us can go anywhere, but we're still both lap travel. So if I was to ask you what your word is, what would your word be? And then I'll tell you what mine is. Describe putting you on the spot. Yeah. What it means to you, what it means to you. What does travel mean to you? In a word. Mike Pollock: [00:32:20] In what word? In one word or one…..Discovery. Kerry Newsome: [00:32:28] Discovery. I like it. Why discovery? Mike Pollock: [00:32:33] Well, that's what you're doing, aren't you, even if you go to a place that's been well traveled, many, many people have been there before you, you're just going to new to you. You're discovering all this for yourself for the first time. Kerry Newsome: [00:32:49] Great work. Love it, and I think what I miss most about travel is discovery and certainly at times nicely with my word, which is revived. One of the reasons I'm doing this podcast is I want to revive people's spirit in the form of discovering new places, new cultures, new food. And so revive is my word. And I'm trying to revive and keep that spirit alive in people. So with the help of people like you who came discoverers, I'm hoping to do that for Vietnam might. Lovely to have you on the program. Really great to get some some insights into the Bac Ha markets. I've learnt a lot and I'm sure my listeners have as well. So thanks for being on the show. Mike Pollock: [00:33:45] Thank you very much. Have a great day.

f9b791be-473a-40c9-aff8-10fae46871a0Phil Hoolihan takes us beyond the tourist tracks What About Vietnam - Series 2-15 Find out more about Sapa as we go beyond the tourist tracks Kerry: To set the scene for my next guest, Phil Hoolihan. Phil lives in the Sapa region, I've said region as Phil will explain a bit more about that later. Phil came to Vietnam from the UK about 20 years ago on a science project, studying biodiversity, he went back to the UK after that, but only to return after he completed his degree. I find out a bit further that he had many trips in that time back and forth and probably chewed up most of that three-year degree time in Vietnam, as it says, Phil is going to give us a very grassroots take on the Sapa that features regularly in most extended tours to Vietnam. And he's going to do that versus what I keep calling and referring to the extended region, because usually the snapshot view or the snapshot tour, two to three days tour set that you will get on an extended tour, doesn't take into consideration the region that Phil's going to talk about. He's also going to talk to us more about the ethos of the region and what compelled him to stay on and add to that. The social enterprise he is involved with means we're going to soon find out that there's more to Sapa than you think. So, Phil if I could say..”great to have you on the show let's just say I'm in Hanoi and I've just bought a three-day, two-night trip to Sapa, just from a local at a desk, as you know, there's many of them in Hanoi, talk us through what that will look like. So, I'm going to get the train up, coach back as I understand from the ticket and I'm staying in a hotel in Sapa. So, talk to us a little bit about what that would look like for your average, Joe. Phil: Well, I think it's a great start to the area. I think the train itself is a big part of the experiential travel, although it's longer and more expensive than alternative forms of transport as it happens. It's a big part of this area's history. I mean, it was originally built by the French in the early 19th century. It's something that I feel brings you into an area in a unique way to sleep on a train overnight, but a lot of people come up here because of the diverse landscape, and rich culture. And I think generally it's these two elements that make North Vietnam so fascinating for many travelers, that combination of incredible scenery, potentially it often rains, it's frequently foggy and the culture, which of course is there regardless of the weather, fortunately! Kerry: But what am I going to be doing on that three days and two nights? Because the train is usually an overnight train, the time I did it, as you rightfully say, it's a cute trip. As long as you don't get a snorer to share with in your 4 berth cabin. And so, if you get a snorer in there, it's a little bit harrowing, but yeah, you're right, it's neat. The train is a really good entry point, so what happens from there? Phil: Well, generally, I mean, a lot of people think when you're arriving on the train, you're actually in Sapa, the train arrives about one hour away from Sapa in a city called Lao Chai and then it's a minibus or a pickup from there up to your hotel or accommodation in Sapa. And it's a real mix, I mean, the town has grown, I mean, I think there's many positives to the growth for certainty, one of them is the range of accommodation available now from budgets three, $4 a night, backpacker, hostel kind of establishments, right the way through to the high-end four- and five-star rooms. So, generally there's something for everyone in terms of accommodation and food as well. But frequently you'll be picked up by your guide and then most people when they're up in Sapa they are doing some form of Trek and typically those treks follow a certain pattern. If it's a half day event, it will be a village called, Cat Cat which is actually owned by a tour company or alternatively for those doing a day trip or a two-day trip it's to villages called Lai Chau and Ta Van and some people will also visit Ta Phin. So, there's four villages that are very much on the tourist trail and they're comfortable, they've been adapted for us, most of the accommodation has, and again I think most people would welcome this, they have got Western style toilets & hot shower and they offer Wi-Fi. And even the food is perhaps not as traditionally Vietnamese as you might get elsewhere, it's a fusion of Vietnamese or Western dishes. So, all in all its kind of packaged experience that fits your typical traveler in the sense that it aims for that kind of mass tourist, that mid centric person who wants to experience, but wants something comfortable and that's what most people end up doing. Kerry: Yeah, and I mean, if I draw on my own experience you know I felt like it was a well-trodden trail, like including every single stop, every single person as in a local person from a minority group, etc. They kind of were dressed and acting according to the tourists that they were going to be meeting that day, which was us. So, I felt it was a little bit orchestrated and a little bit too finely tuned. And for that I Kind of walked away with Hmm…., is that Sapa? I expected probably a more immersive, more authentic, maybe a bit more raw than I got and that kind of threw me a bit. So, since then, of course I've learned a lot and I’ve met people like you, etc. But certainly, I think it's good to talk through for the average person who's trying to fit a lot in, on a trip. You know, they think, they bought 14 days, but they're going to do an extra three days on a trip like this to Sapa. I think sometimes they want to just get in and get out and that's Kind of, to me, I don't know what your thoughts are, but that's Kind of doing Sapa and the region a disservice because the snapshot you're getting is Kind of what I'm just talking about. Superficial...Would you agree? Phil: It's too well oiled, I mean, the very fact that you mentioned there a tour, it feels like a package. It feels like the places you're walking to and the conversations you're having and the food you're eating has been pre-organized, it feels very much like that. And you know what, there are certain people who appreciate that, I'm not one of them actually. But it's simply down to a little bit of background, I mean, the larger group of visitors to Sapa are actually the Vietnamese Kinh you know, migrant Kinh workers dominate the paid employment. They run the tour companies fundamentally, and they like that Kind of tourism. They want to know where they are going to be, everything's itinerized to a point with which prior to your trip, you could even be given a menu, this is what you'll be eating on day three or day two, for instance. Well, you know, to contextualize what you've just said, those three villages, I mentioned earlier, Cat Cat, Lao Chai and Tavan, I haven't visited either of those places for years. Kerry: In 20 years. Phil: I have, I've been to all of them, but I very, very infrequently visit. I've not been to Cat Cat since I worked there 20 years ago, I haven't been there. It's not somewhere, I think it fits with myself or the audience that I prefer to talk to in Sapa, which is a little bit more sustainably orientated, a little bit more free in terms of what they want to do and the keyword is more authentic. Kerry: Yes, and with that authenticity as I want to remind people, is that they can't expect all the comforts of home with that. And I think that's where the cross section of people comes to, as in there's some people that go, oh, you know, for a couple of nights, that's fine, I can hack that. But then there's the others that go, oh, no, that's not what I bargained for and, you know, struggle. You know, they're tired, they've done a trek in the respect of, you know, some hours walking up those Hills, etc. And they're exhausted and they want all those comforts of home to come back to. And I think that's definitely on offer in Sapa as we've agreed. But I think what I'd like to take time with you today is to talk about beyond that region, you know, that more immersive aspect to the region. Because it's not as well-known and it's not as well publicised, because it is that social enterprise community kind of type sharing. And as you said, you know, the tours that you offer aren't for everybody, you know, it's not for everybody, but I want you to talk about it. So, people are at least aware of it so that they can say, hey I think that's more me rather than the more structured, more tailor-made more westernized tour. So, talk to us a little bit about beyond Sapa, talk to us about homestays that are real homestays and your interacting with the real locals. Phil: Well, I think if you look across the country nationally, you've got 13 national parks. I think there's eight UNESCO world heritage sites, and there's more in the pipeline. But one thing that stands out to me is these 53 ethnic minority groups. I believe there are more, there's also the Kinh the main ethnic group. And interestingly, we work with a lot of those ethnic minorities. And if you talk to them, they typically value nature, they enjoy being outdoors and they value that post-contact with the land and resources they grow and forage. Now, I think this is something that can be reflected very, very effectively in tourism, if you're with them and experiencing their life, inevitably, you are in nature and you're living this kind of simple hand to mouth existence with you. Now, I hope that a lot of visitors to Sapa can find and the wider region, of course, but can find this immersive, sustainable travel, this experiential style of travel far more rewarding. I mean, to a point with which many people have told me that being here is life-changing which I think is a fantastic compliment to this area. But you know, what you've got in Sapa I believe is a mountainous area, one and a half thousand meters above sea level, about six hours from Hanoi by bus. And you've got a temperate climate and that is appealing because it's better to walk in a tropical jungle. You've also got an incredible history, you've got charming little villages and beautiful scenery, but I think the key thing is how will that reflect in people's interpretation of this area? We chose Sapa primarily because the ease of access to 16 ethnic minorities in the region. And I don't mean within walking distance, some of those are three or four hours away by motorbike, but that is the heritage that this area offers. And I think that's something that often goes undervalued. If, for example, you get a Kinh Vietnamese guide who was raised in Hanoi, went to a university in Hanoi, learnt their history and culture from a book, as opposed to someone who was born here lives here can understand how to forage and collect. So, you mentioned earlier about the homestays and I mean, I've got a strange story that happened probably about two, three years ago now. And it was actually an older couple from Wales, they wrote to us in advance and said, you know, we'd like to do a challenging trek. We have three days, one day, we'd like to go on a motorbike trip and the other two were looking for something really authentic, really traditional they said a hard trek. So, we offered them a few different choices, but left it open in the sense that when they arrived, your walk distance, your level of challenge, what you eat, where you stay is all open. I mean, it's certainly not fixed beforehand because of the fluidity of the trip. And they ended up doing a lot less than they anticipated. If I'm overly harsh, I'd describe them as morbidly obese, they certainly weren't the kind of people to do a long, hard trek. We've got a fairly interesting call probably around an hour into the walk from the guide, these people aren't going to make it to lunch she said, they're just not going to get there, you know, she was panicking a little bit. So, we interjected, we spoke to the couple who were very open, they were lovely, and they said they were finding it hard and we talked to the guy and she said, oh, I'll find somewhere near here where we can have lunch, which was great. So, they went in the house, they cook their traditional food together, which they thoroughly enjoyed. And what they realized is the destination, the homestay they had in mind was just not achievable. We said, maybe you could come back into town and get a hotel, but they were determined, they wanted to stay overnight. And we said, right, two choices, it will be where you are now or you can continue to walk a little bit and find somewhere in that area to stay, which they opted for. So, they did their trip, we called them in the evening, everything's fine. They've got a homestay; they were staying in a local home and of course they are extremely traditional. It's a working farm, your cockerels and pigs wandering around; the bed is a sprung bamboo homemade bed, you do get a blanket, but there's no hot shower, there is no bathroom. In fact, many homestays don't even have toilets. That's how authentic they are, but they assured us everything was great. And they came back the next day and they raved about the experience. They said the food was delicious, the guide was knowledgeable. They thoroughly enjoyed it, but and this is the key here, when they wrote their review, it wasn't quite the same. And this to me is fascinating it was a four-star review, they thoroughly enjoyed it. It was a good review and they listed everything they thoroughly enjoyed, but they did describe the homestay is extremely challenging, I appreciate that. What they anticipated is that I think in their phraseology, they simply imagined it to be like a little boutique hotel. We normally stay in four- and five-star establishments, we thought a home stay would be a room or a hot shower, private suite. Now, to be honest, I had sent them videos, we had emailed them, and we even sent them photographs quite how they'd missed all of that, I don't know. But what they described the homestay, perhaps a little bit harshly was medieval. They said it was like staying in a cow shed. Now to some degree, I can understand that I've stayed in these homestays. I know you have; they are extremely basic. Kerry: Raw, that's what I was saying before, very raw. Phil: And that's for many people, you know, sat by the fire with a local family who speak very little English, communicating through the guide, eating local food, helping prepare, talking to the kids drinking rice wine. That experience is absolutely what they want. Well, that's something Sapa can offer, but what this couple did I believe is make a small mistake in not quite understanding the variety of homestays, whether that was their problem, I'm not quite sure because elsewhere in Vietnam, as I'm sure you're aware a homestay, something totally different, it is a boutique hotel go and stay in a homestay in Hoi An. It's absolutely not a home, it's a functional little boutique hotel. Well, these homestays are homes, they are homes you stay in. It's what I believe a homestay to be. And they can be challenging, they can be wonderful. But it's something that I think is important to discuss with whoever you arrange your Sapa trip with. Of course, you can do the authentic option, but there are other options that are more comfortable. Kerry: And I think, you know, this is what it means about meeting expectations and understanding, you know, when you buy that ticket that train trip, that coach back that two nights stay, you know, if it says a homestay, the traveler is possibly best to ask some more questions about that homestay, because if they've just come from Hoi An and they've stayed in a homestay, their expectation could be immediately that it's going to be replicated in Sapa. And we've had many a traveler that has been in shock that they would be expected to stay in accommodation of that kind. So, whilst you're talking about the authenticity side of it and the immersive side of it and being able to be part of a family, they're not there for show, they actually live there, they function there every single day and that they've invited you into their home. That is not for everyone, that is just definitely not for everyone. Phil: Well, I've also heard it the other way round. I mean, I've also heard it where people have arrived expecting authenticity, and they've actually ended up in quite a large group in a purpose-built hostel in the middle of a touristy village and they too are disappointed. Kerry: Disappointed, yes. Phil: It all depends, it's absolutely due diligence. It's preparation it’s asking the right questions and finding the right answers. And I think that's absolutely critical to enjoying your experience in this region. Kerry: Absolutely, talk to us a little bit more Phil, about the social enterprise side of what you do. I really got a lot out of our previous discussion when you were talking about just how, some of the things that you do give back to the community, and I'm really keen for you to talk and expand a bit more on that. Phil: It's a challenging area. I mean, again, I'm talking beyond Sapa now, but you've got a number of ethnic minorities that actually number millions. I mean, you know, they,stretch over five Northern provinces and actually there's a lot of historical issues beginning during the French colonial period where they were kind of supporting the French in growing and trading opium. Obviously that trade has disappeared now in order to monitor and to control that trade these tribes that were historically nomadic were forced to fix and live-in permanent settlements. And that's not how they've traditionally lived, and they found that adaptation really challenging. They went from being semi-nomadic, shifting cultivators, self-sustainable to being in their way trapped and poor, to be honest, they've never recovered. And during the Vietnam, American war, because of perceived persecution by the Vietnamese prior, they were actually recruited by the CIA and ended up siding with the Americans during the war, which had a large impact post-war. You know, if you imagine it from a Vietnamese, these people were seen as rebels and outlaws. So, what you have is what I would phrase as marginalization that can perpetuate in racism. You get people who are treated differently and do act differently, they value different things in society. So, what you tend to find is most people over the age of, let's say 27, 28 years old, never went to school because there were no schools. That means if they are in Europe, they're illiterate. And that's challenging, very challenging when you try and find employment, be in tourism or otherwise, if you walk into any job being illiterate, you find yourself often deemed unemployable. So, what you find is in this area, even though the ethnic minorities are the majority, you know, it's a strange way of terming things, but there are more of them than there are Vietnamese Kinh. The Kinh own the businesses, they own everything, all the homestays, all the restaurants, all the tour companies. Kerry: When you talk about Vietnamese Kinh, tell me what does that mean, is that a rural person, but not a minority group? Phil: They are the majority, so they are the biggest ethnic group in Vietnam, I think they make up about 90% of the population. So, if you're traveling through Vietnam, if you're in Hanoi or Saigon, if you're in Hue or Hoi An, most of the people who live in those urban metropolises are actually Kinh Vietnamese, so they make up big majority. So, the language, the Viet language is actually spoken as their primary language, the Kinh. Whereas these ethnic minorities, they have a different culture, they have different food, different clothing, and their own languages. And this historical marginalization has created poverty, extreme poverty in some cases. And I think that's something that tourism can be a big part of in terms of a solution. If it's done right, our presence can end up providing not only income for otherwise marginalized people, but also acceptance the fact that we are on a trek and staying in a homestay with an ethnic minority person means that we're not judging them on their poverty. We're seeing them as it is, and we're involved with them. And they take real pride in the fact that certainly as travelers, we are choosing those experiences and we're valuing what they offer, there's a great sense of pride. Which in turn helps to support their traditional ways because they understand the value, for instance their language or their clothing, because they know that we enjoy, and we like to learn about that. So, a long time ago, I spoke to a lot of our team who were all from two of the tribes, Muong, and Dao. And we spoke to them about what they thought were the biggest challenges here. They described health, access to employment and we set about trying to find solutions to these. Of course, if you're illiterate, the easiest solution is developed literacy easier said than done. But likewise access to hospital care, you know, I know we had a conversation, a side of our conversation today last week, talking about a young boy who was quite badly burned. Well, the problem his family had is once they arrived in the hospital, they couldn't understand the doctors nor could they fill in the basic forms to allow them to access the hospital, which is where our organization we're able to support, just simple access, access like that. So, I think in terms of tourism, it's great to know that we can come here and enjoy it, whatever type of tourist you are, but at the same time, really support locally. Kerry: Yes. Phil: I don't know if you recall. I mean, did you find that when you were doing your trekking, were you followed by local sellers? Kerry: Yes. Phil: I find that quite challenging because when I'm doing a walk, I don't want to be troubled by having, do we, do we not? Is it right to buy from a child? Should I not? There's too many thoughts when I'm trying to enjoy an experience. The simple reality is those people are selling because it's their only access point to tourism, if they can't get jobs in hotels and restaurants and they're not guides, well where do they earn money? Because they can't grow enough food to eat, so they have to earn an income. The simple solution to me is find and work with them on meaningful employment. They are the guides, they are the homestay owners, they do prepare and grow the food. And as soon as they become integral, then it works. And those sellers begin to dissipate because why would anyone want to follow you for 12 kilometers on a day long trek to maybe sell something, if they could be your guide, do the same walk anyway, and be guaranteed a wage at the end of the day. Kerry: Yeah, exactly. Phil: To me, it's simple. So, you know, my advice here is, when you come to Sapa if you've not booked something in advance, find someone local, find someone is Dao or Muong, someone who's got a good command of the language that you want to communicate in when you trek and make sure that the money is going into the right areas. Kerry: And how do you do that, how do you make sure? I mean, when you've traveled a lot as I know you and I have, you've been to places like India and been haggled and things like that. I found the haggling in Sapa very invasive, I've found it uncomfortable and I felt on the spot. And when you're roaming through that trek, and you've just got this family where children on their back and walking behind you and trying to sell, textiles and things like that. I Kind of felt like it was staged, and I'd rather get the money and go and give it to somewhere where I truly felt it was going to go to the right people. But even though they looked like the right people, they look like the wrong people to give the money to, if there's a way of saying that. And that's a shame because as you say, it is possibly their only way of connecting with a tourist and having the opportunity to earn some money that way. But I think from a tourist perspective, they are more accepting of giving back to the community in ways of buying some of the textiles like, beautiful bedspreads and pillowcases. And I've bought some beautiful pieces, etc. And I bring them home and I love them more than anything because I know the story behind them, I know where I bought it, the woman I bought it from, the village she came from. So, you know, it has much more meaning, but once again I was talking to someone else today and I think there is a perception that everything you do in Vietnam is cheap. So, you know, it's cheap, cheap copy, copy. And everybody expects that they should be getting everything for nickel and dime cheapest chips kind of thing. So, that concept fights hard with the social enterprise who is offering handmade items that are sometimes expensive. They're not out of a little factory somewhere churning out stuff, they are actually handmade. And sometimes, you know, some of the local art that I bought takes months to make one piece and I can feel the shell in the surface, I can feel every inch of that painting, etc. But I had to pay some serious Us dollars for that. And I think that concept is hard for the average tourist to bend their brain around as well. What are your thoughts on that? Phil: Well, I mean, there's two sides to the same story, really. I mean, one is if you were a local seller and you knew that on a given day, there may be four or 500 people arriving and trekking, and they all do the same trek, the same route, where would you go to sell? Of course, they gravitate towards those villages. So, if you end up going to those villages, you will have sellers. And actually, what the sellers have realized is that most of those people are on a fairly tight budget. They've realized that most of them don't really want to buy anything, I mean, why would you want to buy a big blanket and then do a trek carrying this with you. So, they've ended up kind of investing their own time in doing little bit new experiments. There's a lady, Vietnamese lady in town buys huge quantities from China of machine-made textiles. A lot of the Muong and the Dao will wander into town. They'll borrow trinkets from her, borrow them, not buy them. And then what they'll do is loiter around either in the town or in those three villages, I mentioned, and as groups of tourists come, they latch on they'll follow you in the hopes that they can sell, if they do, they'll pay the lady in Sapa and if they don't, they return the objects. Now that's a way of earning a very, very meager income, but I believe it to be negative on every front because you're promoting the purchasing of machine-made fabrics that veer away from tradition, the younger generations are therefore not learning their traditions, which is a major issue. You've also got a poor in my mind, experiential tourism, because we see them as a photo opportunity. They see us as a sales opportunity that isn't rewarding for either party. On the opposite side of that Sapa has, I believe 96 villages and hamlets, go to other areas of the country. Then, instead of seeing, as you as a sales opportunity, if you end up staying with people and eating with people, why do they need to sell to you? Their business is accommodating you; their business is guiding you, that becomes the transaction. And to me, that's more meaningful and it's absolutely available here everywhere you go to anywhere but those three, I'll say four, if you include Ta Phin, villages, that's the experience you'll get. So, we've told all the people we work with at the villages that we work with, this is your tourism industry, not mine. Foreigners who come here have certain expectations, it's important that we make sure that they feel satisfied and comfortable, but at the same time, nobody wants to be followed and harassed. So, we've worked out a simple model, and this is out there publicly. I don't mind if anyone copies it, but in the morning, we buy food from the market, but all the food is bought from locals, local guide, local drivers. We do a walk, or we stop in a local home for lunch. We cook and eat as they do, we share the food together, you continue on your stay in a local home. The following day, you eat lunch in a local home, you come back with a local driver. So, over the course of a typical trip, it could be that six, seven, eight families benefit from you coming well, if they benefit, they don't need to sell you anything. If you ask and you want it's there it's readily available top-quality things, items that they've made cherished with love hand spawn, handle woven, hemp dyed with Indigo, and then embroidered over the course of a year, it's outstanding stuff. You're not going to find that down in the touristy villages. Kerry: No, well, you'll find it, but you'll find it's made in China. Phil: There you go, yeah completely, you're absolutely right. Or printed versions of the same. Kerry: It is, yes and if there's nothing more than I get across with this podcast is trying to give the travelers some insights and educate the future traveler about what to look for. So, that as you say, they can get the experience that they want. So, if it does mean doing a bit of research, listening to this podcast, heaven forbid you know, reaching out to yourself directly, I'm going to be putting all your links in the episode notes, then, you know my job is done because I blindly walked into Sapa and walked away and it took me a couple more goes to see more, to get the benefit of more knowledge and more education. Possibly I was lazy, and I didn't do enough research, but as you say, if you do, it's there, it's available. And as extensive as the area is, I mean, you've mentioned some names of other areas in Northern Vietnam. I mean, I just adore Northern Vietnam, I just think it's that memorable, that every trip I make a point of going to somewhere new in the North. And every time I've never been disappointed. I think if we have done something well today its show them the many sides of Sapa. Phil: And we've won all sorts of awards and I don't say that lightly. I don't necessarily think we've ever tried to get those awards. We've simply had open dialogue with people I respect as friends, constantly. So, my advice generally is to kind of do your own research, find an experience that suits your needs because everybody goes to those three locations. You've got to work out whether those locations are for you. All treks and experiences can be tailored. So, ask your tour company what you would like to do in terms of distance and accommodation. We've talked about even down to food, you know, if you don't eat meat, you're a vegetarian or vegan, of course it's something that we can accommodate as a destination. I'm not talking about our organization. I think it's super important to ask your guide or your company where the money goes, because in an area where 50% of the population are registered as poor, I think it's essential. the income from tourism spreads to more than one individual, more than one company. So, have a look at the literature, have a look at their newsfeed on social media; gauge what they're like as individuals, or as an organization. Are they in tourism purely for profit, or are they involved in community development, village cleanups, education, etc. So, I think that's there if you want it. You mentioned before, it's easy in Sapa to fall into that trap of thinking, oh, well, everyone seems to be offering the same. And I come full circle a little earlier, I mentioned that the Kinh Vietnamese owned most of the tour companies. We did a social experiment some months ago, it was fascinating, we targeted a number of people throughout the town, and they ended up being categorized into three groups, Vietnamese, tribal people, as in the and the Muong and general foreigners, it doesn't matter which country you are from. And what we asked them to do while they were in this region is to come up with the first five words that they thought of while in the area. And I found it fascinating because when we asked foreigners, they came up with the words, culture, forest mountains, heritage, homestay, treks. When we asked the locals, they said, rice, Indigo, forest, Buffalo, friends, farming. There is an overlap, it's a tenuous one, but there is an overlap then the Vietnamese and it was stark. They said, Fanispan, the name of the biggest mountain in Vietnam, Sun World the name of the tour company who owned the cable car up the biggest mountain in Vietnam, Sapa Swing a destination where you can take selfies. Selfie was one of their words when they think of Sapa and the last one, I couldn't believe it, but it's true karaoke. So, what you find with that and the reason I... it's astonishing, isn't it? The reason I raised that point is because culturally you've got a group of people who were organizing tours and, in their mind,, this is a destination for cable cars, selfies, and karaoke. That's not what I want when I come to Sapa. If that's what you want, go to a generic Vietnamese agency and that's what they'll provide. If it's not what you want, you will have to dig a little deeper. Kerry: Yeah, I think Phil that digging a little bit deeper I think we should finish on that. Phil: Yeah. Kerry: That I think is the guts of it, if I can say that. Phil: Yeah, absolutely. Kerry: I think taking it on a superficial level is not the way to go, there is more to Sapa and you just have to dig a bit deeper. Phil, thank you so much for your time. Great to talk to you as always and love what you're doing and look forward to talking to you again soon. Phil: You're welcome, pleasure, thanks for your time today. Kerry: I hope you enjoy this episode, talking about Sapa and the extended region that it is. It offers just such a wide range of experiences, possibly more immersive and authentic than you may have originally thought. I'm truly grateful for Phil's time and the knowledge he shared with us today. I really had no concept of the marginalization in the area and the challenges that brings to local operators trying to make a living from tourism. Hopefully when you start planning a trip to Vietnam, you know, maybe take a bit more time to maybe dig a bit deeper in the areas Phil mentioned just to get that local experience with minority groups in their real habitat. I'll put all the appropriate links in the episode notes, please share, and let us know what you think of the program and how we can improve drop us an email or give us a shout out on our Facebook page until next time.

237094e6-207c-48f9-8161-68f4458ddf60In this session, I talk about food, people and experiences. What About Vietnam - Series 1- 1 Vietnam Travel planning Hello and Welcome to What About Vietnam. Xian Chau which means ...hello … My name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host. This is the very first episode, ….. I am truly excited to be bringing you this series. It’s been a long time in the baking. I fell in love with Vietnam a long time ago, and now through this podcast I get to share some of my learnings as a travel blogger and regular traveller over the last 14 years. I continue to work with travelers to Vietnam, and inspired by them, I feel confident I can bring you the information I know I have found hard to find about Vietnam before you actually book. I hope to answer all those burning questions you have about Vietnam. Like:- When to go? Do you need a Visa’s? Is it safe? Where are the hot spots and what are the “must do” things? I hope to bring this information to you in such a way you feel like you are there already !! So, stick around I have lots of information coming your way. In this session, I’d like to get your taste buds salivating about the food. I’d like to share with you my experiences with the people and maybe give you some insights into the kinds of experiences you can choose to have,.......... and where to find them. I want to invite you…. to the Vietnam I know and love. So lets dive in, When I think of Vietnamese food, I think about fresh seafood, ….fresh vegetable salads, …...juices, …..noodle soups with amazing broths,..... Baguets that are filled with varieties of pork, called Banh Mi, and colour. Aromas that draw you in from the street.But to silo Vietamese food into one strand of flavours marked as traditional,...... you would be missing out on the fusion of Asian flavours it offers. To get the full frontal of the basics at a street level, I urge new travellers to do a street food tour in one,... or all of the main cities. I have always believed that you never know a country…. or its people until you immerse yourself in its food. So, if your palette and digestive system allows, try and be open to exploration. Check out local markets, and while the smells and views of food vagrantly sitting out on benches may be overwhelming at first, ...Put your “when in Rome, do as the Roman do hat” and try some of the traditional dishes at least. A little tip here, so your tummy doesn’t know what hit it with the flavours about to come its way, I strongly suggest maybe starting a probiotic, a week before you leave, and bringing with you some anti diareahea medication. The food, while fresh is grown in different soils to possibly our country of origins and often this can bring about a digestive upset for the first few days as it settles down. So precautionary only as not a biggy. Those who cannot eat peanuts, or chilli, may want to ask a lot more questions about the way it was cooked. I hate to bring this up now, but I’d be remiss if I didnt mention as I have seen to many cases, including my own, in a bit of shock when the rumbling starts….Okay enough of that, lets get stuck into those 5 delicious dishes that Vietnam is world renowned for:- Five main foods Vietnam is known for:- No 1 - Banh Mi - No 2 - Pho - explain No 3 - Banx Xeo pancake - No 4 - Cau Lau - No 5 - Ban cha - Bun Cha is a traditional Vietnamese pork dish that's a speciality of Hanoi. Seasoned pork patties (I call them squished meatballs) and caramelised pork belly slices are served in a broth alongside rice noodles, fresh vegetables and herbs. And try if you can….. try not to get caught up in all the taunts about eating strange animals as it is NOT common practice, and in fact I have not gone down those streets so I can’t even tell you exactly where they cook dog, which does occur in the north, or pigeon, rat, or snake. So as Im not an authority after 14 years of travelling to Vietnam, I’ll leave it there. I will tell you that there is definitely a difference in flavours and cooking between the North and the south. Even their spring rolls are different. And distinct to some regions will be dishes like White rose dumplings - famous in Hoi An, as is Cau Lau. Crazy as it sounds it is hard to find Cau Lau out of Hoi An. Despite its simplicity of being a noodle dish with crunchy pork crackling bits, and a broth that is to die for. It’s everywhere in Hoi An. But you will search high and dry for it in HCMC.As a rule of thumb, with very blurred lines in the centre, The north tends to be more meaty and the south sweeter and seafood orientated. A word of warning, if you think your kids are a bit hyper and you don’t know why…….Mind the sugar, as you will find they put sugar in almost everything, even fruit juices like Pineapple, watermelon, etc But you can say NO Sugar. Obviously beach locations like Nha TRang, Danang, Hoi An, Halong Bay, and the Mekong Delta are rich in seafood which they regularly sell the days catch to local restaurants who will offer it to customers in buckets that are displayed at the front of their restaurants …...so you can pick what you want to have cooked in whatever way you wish. While it may look cheap and chearful you will usually be surprised at how good it tastes. And you can’t beat that freshness. And while you have seen plenty of those Vietnam tourist photos with little red chairs. They are standard seating in very local places. They are also part of what a “pop up” restaurant is all about. You can be walking along a street in Hoi An, and before you know it, the chairs come out and all of a sudden you will see set them set up…... grilling tasty sticks of pork or skewered prawns and you can just grab one and sit on one of those chairs for less than a couple dollars. It’s the aromas, and relaxed state of being that draws you in. No fuss, no parking to organise, no booking to be made. On the other hand you can walk further down the street and see restaurants side by side touting their daily specials. Like any other country Vietnam has morphed into a multicultural society, and amongst the craziness is some amazing chefs emerging with new restaurants and bringing their culture to the table, in Australian, Japanese, Korean BBQ and Asian Fusion. I can honestly say, I dont think I have had a bad meal in Vietnam. Sure Ive had those that have not been to my liking, But for the most I am with people that guess me well or I am on a food tour and learning new tastes and dishes. I still do food tours as i love learning more about Vietnam through its food. For #Vegetarians ...you will love it, as #Vietnam has you covered well with their juices and fresh vegetables and noodles. #Coffee is a culture all of its own. Its an outing. Its not just a drink, its a way to say hello and make a new friend. Along with their teas, you will want to find any excuse to have a coffee or a tea possibly in a old shophouse that has been converted to a Tea House. A very beautiful ornamental shop house in Hoi An, is also known as the Quiet American as it was featured in the film and the house is still owned by the family. I got to visit the upstairs bedrooms one time to see old family photos on the walls dating back centuries. Just amazing to see. Every frequent visitor has their favourites. A place called Cocobana in Hoi An is one of mine for tea. It offers foot baths while you enjoy your cup of something specially grown for them, with lots of herbs and stuff. Your feet and your senses always feel fabulous when you walk out. a great respite from the heat. And so with things like #Eggcoffee, it is not found everywhere. Mostly in the north and central districts.and not one of my fav things, but maybe if it’s on the menu you should try.Vietnamese are not well known for drinking alcahol. While people love their beer, they are not traditionally big drinkers. Of course with influence from other cultures that is changing. The best thing to try in the drinking department is #BaiHoi. This is A beer they brew mostly in Hanoi, on the day, and you drink it as it comes ( not necessarily cold) until its gone. There is a kind of ceremony thing that goes with it , with cheers and more cheers. The alcohol is said to be less alcohol (40% less) so that you can sit with the locals and drink with them all day. Easily done at around 5,000 - 10,000 Dong a glass. 0.45 cUSD there is actually a corner in the old town called bai Hoi corner, ask any guide they will show you where it is. By the end of your drinking session, I guarantee you will have made new friends despite the fact you won’t understand a word they are saying. Its all got to go... in the day, and usually is, so make sure you get there early if you happen to stumble on a stall in the Old Quarter. They are easy to spot as the barrell comes out and the plastic glasses are handed out. The party has begun.10am to 10 pm most days. If I move on now to describe to you something about the people, you will need to be aware I am speaking from my experiences…. and from those shared with me from some of my travellers and the suppliers I deal with. For a country that has experienced so much hardship I am still amazed at how gracious, kind and generous the Vietnamese are. I work with Vietnamese people and I have travelled with Vietnamese, and for the most part they are kind, caring and always willing to help where they can. They do have a bit of a fascination with us. They would like to understand us, but as we, the collective force of tourists cannot understandably all be clumped together. It makes it difficult. I get the Aussie Aussie c’mon often or Gidday mate… and thats about it! One example... I have dropped my hotel door key card, in the middle of a market place and had the person who found it chase me to give it to me. Another ….I have been staying in a hotel in Hoi An for a long stay and before I knew it after many conversations was offered a job. I have met a lady who gave a cooking class and has since become one of my best friends who I continue to travel around Vietnam with. Vietnamese are open, warm and slightly conservative in my experience. They aren’t flashy or whimsical. They mostly follow Buddhist traditions and favour anyone who does also. Family is everything and so is looking after their older generations which is why they may have done so well with Covid as they generally don’t tend to house the old in old peoples homes. In fact there are not many of these types of places in Vietnam. Mostly someone will be looking after that older person, be it some…... better than others. History Vietnam - They are a war ravaged country and there are distinct differences between the north and the south, but for many years the voices of unrest are quietening and as the young replace the old, the dissent is almost gone, as far as how they feel about the Vietnam war, likewise the generation x don’t really understand it as they don’t get taught too much about their own country’s political history… I am not sure if that is a good thing or not. So as a traveller and like in any city, keeping your wits about you for the those criminals you will find anywhere;- typically ...that “pick pocketer” lives everywhere unfortunately,...if you stick to common sense rules you should feel very confident travelling solo as I do often…. or if you bring children and the elderly,.... other than dealing with the motorbike traffic in the main cities that will be the biggest things you will need to contend with. While I am recording this in the middle of the Covid19 pandemic, it will be interesting to see how the country moves forward as there were reported cases in the country areas of locals being aggressive to foreigners, which is what we are called, specially us white ones, if I can say that… there were cases of aggression as they blamed us for bringing the virus to their country. Of course that is only partly true as it did come from other countries but to bundle every foreign traveler as a potential risk, was not warranted. So...I will be keen to see how that relaxes once the pandemic is under control or we have a vaccine. As I was in Vietnam right in the middle of March, I was temperature checked and at all times I felt safe amongst the Vietnamese but I did conform to wearing a mask and social distancing. As the people differ by regions, so do the experiences you can expect to find. For simplicity I have broken experiences into 4 main categories. I am only only going to dust the surface on experiences as my next series- A TRAVELLERS GUIDE TO EXPEREINCES, will feature first hand accounts with interviews with people who have had their own experiences such as these,.... and many others and they will give you their version. Much more fun, and nothing you will find in a travel book.But as the purpose of this series is to get you set for a trip to Vietnam, the least I can do is get you excited as Vietnam, has so much to offer. So here goes - Water - Vietnam offers so much to experience in the way of water. Beaches - there is 3200 kms of coastline for starters. Your hot spots being Danang, Hoi An, Nha Trang and if an island is your thing, then Phu Quoc is the go and Visa free. Just transit through HCMC. The north features some of the most staggering waterfalls near the China border, and lets not forget the beautiful Phung Nha underwater caves, ... which seems to be opening up before our eyes with 12 new caves discovered only last month. My all time favourite for off the beaten track in water, is Be be Lake, so pristine and unspoilt, mix it with the White Thai people and Hmong tribes, you will get a feeling you are lost in time. Visit magical caves by boat and take in a world of stalik mights and staliktights. And of course you must veer south if you want a taste of the Mighty Mekong: enjoy a trip up through to Phnom Penh or visit its Delta region at Can Tho where you still can see family sellers selling their wares on the waterways. Don’t forget to take your mosquito repellant. Lets get Historical and explore the culture of the country for an expereince. If you are a history or war buff, this country can take you across many countries of domination including Chinese, French, Portugese, Dutch and Japanese. If you start your historical adventure in Hanoi that will kick you off well. Divided into 12 districts, Hanoi can offer you a deep view into history through its museums and places of history, with a Woemns Museum being one of my favouirte due its amazing story telling of how women supported the country with NO glass ceiling it seems. If they could don a uniform and fight …..they have just as many rights as anyone else. And you will see that many women hold roles of importance in the country and in family businesses they tend to be the entrepreneurs. Still in a culture mindset you can travel to Hue to enjoy a treasure trove of Imperial history. Then on the Hoi An where you can stay in a 16th century old town, visit shop houses and pagodas; see live art perfromances telling you stories of love and loss over the spice trail period of time. A great place to mix up the old and new with fantastic short wave beaches, ideal for families, you can’t go past Hoi An as a multi faceted stay as many of my guests in the next series will test. Adventure seekers - you need to pick your time of year if you want to avoid disabling heat exhaustion. Head to the north of Vietnam in the months between Feb and May, rug up and you will expereince some amazing vistas either visiting tea plantations, climbing mountains in Sapa, kayaking in Ninh Binh or crawling through caves in Cat be National Park: Exploring the national parks could consume your old stay, while enjoying local homestays, with families taking care of you with home cooked meals. Or maybe you’d like the on road expereince of a bike, then get the right advise from people lile Mark Bowyer at Rusty Compass and others who have made alife doing just that. I hope to have on my show in the next series so he can tell us first hand what its like. Now for those who are looking for: Shopping - eating - luxury - pampering - relaxing - golf You might like to check out a shopping and appearing tour I happen to be co hosting next year, 2021 - www.shopeatloveourvietnam.com (This is currently on hold post the pandemic) Designer shopping is now a thing in Vietnam all you need is to know where to go… I may be able to give you a steer there as I am co hosting a pamper shopping tour next year. Hanoi has the joy factor there and likewise in HCMC with the up and coming designers wanting to make their mark in clothing, gifts and sustainable wares. Eating - Oh god don’t get me started on food again, but if I want to relax,..... I am always going to get out of the main cities and head to Danang as the busiest of cities and then to Hoi An for food. However, in saying that:- Hanoi and HCMC have some sensational places to eat, from street food to rooftop bars, you can get it all. Or you might like to explore the city in HCMC on a dinner cruise, looking back over the city. If you are prepared to pay what you would back home then the food on these dinner cruises is sensational. See my notes for a recommendation. Pampering is in abundance, 350,000 dong can get you a very nice massage and with a spa centre every 5 metres in Hoi An, it would be my recommendation….to stay…. for a flop and drop stay either, ….before or after…. some other adventure. At this price, you can afford to have more than one during your stay. Be like me, have one every second day, which is why in another episode I have suggested to stay 5 days in Hoi AN….go home feeling like you have had a holiday. I mention golf in here, as there is a new trend of golfers coming in small groups and with partners. 5 courses in easy drive from Hoi An. I brought a group over last year, they tell me the courses are first class and as you can add in the culture and food to the trip, it makes for a great round trip of enjoyment for the golfer and non golfers alike. So in wrapping up this episode,... Please check with the Episode notes for any links mentioned and feel free to contact me anytime. I look forward to paving the way for you to have a magical time in Vietnam as I share more trip planning tips over future episodes ... Thanks for listening. Bye for now... Kerry Newsome

1319efd4-ae5f-4518-ac06-e7d25b28d9e3Fun Hanoi foodie adventure to blow your mind What About Vietnam - Series 3 - 8 A fun foodie adventure in Hanoi that will blow your mind [00:00:36] Kerry Newsome: Xin chào . Welcome to What About Vietnam . Today, we're going to take a real fun adventure in Hanoi. We're going to be experiencing something with a lady named Fleur Sharpe. It's a foodie episode believe it or not. It's a crazy, crazy fun story. I couldn't let it go. I couldn't let Fleur go without telling this story because I think what it did for me originally was just open up my mind, and I'm hoping yours, too, just about the things that you will do on a holiday that is a little bit left-field, a little bit adventurous, risky, a little bit dangerous because it just all adds to the momentum of your trip, your storytelling. You're walking away, going, "Wow. That was crazy, but it was fun. It was just heaps of fun. Fleur is no stranger to food. She runs her own online programs, where she specializes in courses in recipes and learning how to use the Thermomix. If you would like to know more about those, you can reach out to her on the episode notes links as I'll have everything there for you to access her directly and book those courses. Today's episode, as I said, is a crazy adventure with a very fun lady as she shares with us just what happened one lunchtime in Hanoi with her husband when they took on a very, very adventurous food journey. Please welcome Fleur to the program. [music] Fleur, welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Great to have you on. [00:02:34] Fleur Sharpe: Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited to tell you about my adventure. [00:02:38] Kerry Newsome: [chuckles] Well, it's funny. Adventures can come in all forms. I have to say the adventure that you spoke about when we last chatted just blew me away. I'm going to let you tell my listeners what your adventure entailed. Maybe that's not the right word I should be using. In Hanoi, you decided to take up quite a gastronomic adventure I would call it. Let’s hear all about it. [00:03:14] Fleur Sharpe: Oh, well, it was an adventure. That was for sure. I was even a bit nervous as a pretty hardcore foodie, and I pretty much say yes to everything. When my husband first floated this idea of going to this snake restaurant just a little way out of Hanoi, I was a bit like, "Oh." It's one of those things that sounds great in theory, but when you're actually confronted with doing it, it took me back. I was like, "When am I ever, when am I ever in my life going to be back here and be able to go to a snake restaurant." I just went, "Look. Let’s just do it." I steal myself with a bottle of French champagne. I got it on the way. I just was like, "Let this crazy thing roll." It wasn't planned as part of our trip. In fact, the whole trip wasn't particularly well planned. It was a bit of a last-minute thing. We're in Hanoi. [00:04:05] Kerry Newsome: When was it? [00:04:08] Fleur Sharpe: It was actually three years ago this week. Not the best time to be there. It was hellishly hot like, "Oh my God." Coming from Queensland, I'm used to the heat, but this is a whole other level of heat and humidity. You just suck the life out of you. What do we do? We're wandering around. I don't know. What's that lake in the middle of Hanoi in the old-- in the center there? [00:04:31 Kerry Newsome: The Hoan Kiem Lake. [00:04:33] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, we're having, That's it. Well, we're having one of those beautiful egg coffees. Then, David said, "I've just been doing some research and found this restaurant that I think Anthony Bourdain had mentioned in one of his adventures too. I think it was the same trip that he met up with Barack Obama in Hanoi, and they had that famous dinner." Anyway, so he recommended it. I went, "Oh, okay. I'm sold. Let’s go." Off we go, it's about 5 km. It's called The Hung Snake Restaurant. It's about 5 km outside of the Old Quarter. Off we trot, I don't think we had a booking at all. I think we just knocked on the door. It was about midday. [00:05:19] Kerry Newsome: You went midday? [00:05:21] Fleur Sharpe: Midday, yes. [00:05:22] Kerry Newsome: With the champagne? [00:05:24] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, with a bottle of champagne under my arm. They obviously weren't expecting us or anybody to be honest because we had to wake them up. They were all lying on the floor because it was so hot under the fence. [laughter] We had to wake them up. It was so funny. Then, in a heartbeat, they were like, "Come in. Welcome." Basically, the premise is that you choose your snake. You choose a snake, and you pay for the whole snake. I think you can pay by the kilo, but we were in for a penny, in for a pound. Let’s buy the whole snake. We chose a cobra for no other reason than I think it was the most expensive and the fattest. [chuckles] [00:06:06] Kerry Newsome: Isn't there some story that goes with the cobra? I heard that it had extra ??? value] or something about it. It's like the king kong of snakes. [00:06:17] Fleur Sharpe: Oh yes. The cobra comes with its own marketing message, 100%. I'll tell you more about that. We choose our poor cobra, who has been caught in the wild. These people that have been doing it, they're fourth-generation snake catchers in the wild. The owner who was actually the son of the owner was the fourth generation. His name was Dragon. Not sure whether that was his stage name or his actual name, but it was Dragon. He talked us through it. We chose our cobra and then obviously the cobra had to meet its maker. To distract us while that happened, they did a bit of a snake show. I know you're not a fan of snakes. [00:07:00] Kerry Newsome: No, definitely not. [00:07:00] Fleur Sharpe: This would have completely freaked you out. They get the snake out, and they do this snake magic kind of thing. It was fun and terrifying at the same time. [00:07:12] Kerry Newsome: I hope by now you're having the champagne. [00:07:15] Fleur Sharpe: Oh yes. [laughter] [00:07:20] Kerry Newsome: I was going to say you have to have a few champagnes by the stage just to take that show in! [00:07:27] Fleur Sharpe: Then, they sit us down, and the show begins. Dragon presents every course to us. It was basically a 12-course degustation of cobra. Now, I love food. I'm a pretty adventurous bit of a foodie, studying gastronomy. I've had some really great meals in my life around the world. I think there's a reason why cobra hasn't taken off as a gastronomic thing because [laughter] I read the reviews on TripAdvisor. Everyone's going, "Oh. This is a great restaurant. This is fantastic." I'm like, "I don't remember a single flavor with the exception of two." [chuckles] A lot of it was deep-fried, but you've got to go. Don't let me put you off. You have got to go. They come out the first thing they do is that they give you-- Well because I was with my husband, they gave it to him. It was the still-beating heart of the cobra in a shot of vodka. He had to down it. The thing was if you drink it while it's still beating, it gives you longevity. [00:08:31] Kerry Newsome: Long life and-- Yes. [00:08:32] Fleur Sharpe: You're bulletproof. Yes. Then, there's another shot of vodka with this bright-green-like, nuclear green liquid in it, which is the bile, which was for me. [laughs] I've got a slick. [00:08:47] Kerry Newsome: Did you hold your nose or— [00:08:49] Fleur Sharpe: I didn't. I was just like, "Oh, anyway." I was just like, "Okay, it's a shot of vodka. Down it goes." it was like [00:08:56] mild. It was pretty bitter. It wasn't pleasant, but that was my fit. It was pretty much all downhill after that. Oh, with the exception of one thing my husband got because there was only one. He got to eat the penis. There was this whole story. [00:09:09] Kerry Newsome: Oh, lucky him! [00:09:12] Fleur Sharpe: There was this whole story around what eating a cobra's penis will do for a man. Hung, the owner, was totally into it, totally believed his own PR. We bought into it, too, to be honest. We ate that. Then, it proceeded with dish after dish after dish of different parts of this poor cobra, which we had no hope of eating in its entirety. In fact, I think Hung's family ate very well for the next week of the leftovers. [laughter] [00:09:45] Kerry Newsome: But do you add salt and pepper or has it got herbs and spices? [00:09:50] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, there was one that was very much like Kentucky fried cobra. It was off the bone. It was the backbone and was all kind of spicy, crunchy, and all that stuff. Then, there was one that was like spring rolls and one that was in a salad. Yes. Then, it was a blur, to be honest. [laughs] [00:10:08] Kerry Newsome: Oh God. [00:10:11] Fleur Sharpe: It was pretty funny. Then, the champagne ran out. They bought out a bottle of Vietnamese vodka. There's a reason why [00:10:20] it's 4.50 a bottle. It’s pretty rough. [00:10:22] Kerry Newsome: Pretty rough. [00:10:24] Fleur Sharpe: After what we'd been through it, it was like-- whatever. It was certainly an experience. Then, they took us down to where they keep all the snakes, the snake boxes, which would have completely freaked you out. We went down. We got down this-- how they do in Vietnam, those tiny, rickety wooden staircases that go around and around and around. It was like going into the bowels of hell. Then, we went down. We went out to the garden, where there were all these boxes, wooden boxes full of snakes. They explained to us that when they go out into the long grasses, that to find snakes that's where they bring them back to. That was when Dragon's father arrived. I think his name was actually Hung, the hung. [00:11:13] Kerry Newsome: [laughs] [00:11:14] Fleur Sharpe: He was the original Hung. [00:11:16] Kerry Newsome: Do you reckon he ate a lot of penises to be called Hung or…. [00:11:22] Fleur Sharpe: Oh my God. [00:11:23] Kerry Newsome: Is there any correlation? [00:11:24] Fleur Sharpe: How did I miss that? Of course. [00:11:28] Kerry Newsome: I don't know where I went to with that, but I just thought "Hung" and "penis" were like-- Oh my God. [00:11:31] Fleur Sharpe: It's so funny. Well, I think Hung has been doing it for so long. He only had three and a half fingers left. He literally had virtually no fingers left, this old man. Well, he looked like an old man. I said to David, "Look. He's probably 45, but he looked 85." [00:11:52] Kerry Newsome: Did he have 25 children or something because of all these meals?? [00:11:54] Fleur Sharpe: Nearly. Yes, huge families. Yes. [00:11:59] Kerry Newsome: He's worn out obviously. [00:12:00] Fleur Sharpe: Clearly. Yes, clearly. [00:12:05] Kerry Newsome: Did they speak at all about the poisonous side of things or Did that ever come up? [00:12:10] Fleur Sharpe: Well, no. They said that they were removed. The way that they kill it means that that doesn't go through any of the flesh, so it's done pretty well. From what I understand, no one's died yet. [00:12:31] Kerry Newsome: Talk to us a little bit, Fleur, about-- you went at lunchtime so was this like 12, 1 o'clock? Then, how long did you actually spend out there? [00:12:43] Fleur Sharpe: We went about midday from memory. Two of the courses take some time. We were still there. Come late afternoon, early evening, and a lovely American couple came from Texas. We pulled up a chair with them. They didn't do the full 12 courses, so we ended up meeting some really lovely tourists. We shared a cab back into Hanoi with them, which was lots of fun. We shared the bottle of vodka with them. We were there pretty much the whole afternoon. It was the most incredible experience I remember telling you about. I still glow about it. Even though it wasn't a real foodie, foodie experience, it was a fantastic all-round adventure. [00:13:31] Kerry Newsome: You're right in saying that. First, I would put it down to maybe a dare that as a backpacker or something and a whole heap of guys and girls, etc. might go and do. When I spoke to you and because you're a sophisticated lady, you're well educated in food and all this type of thing, that's why I was fascinated. I was thinking, "My God. She was game enough to do it." I definitely couldn't go there just because I can't stand reptiles. I certainly can't stand snakes. The fact that it is an experience you can have in Vietnam, I really wanted to have you on the show to share that with people to say, "Look. You can go as wild as you like. You can be as adventurous as you like. I've got proof. I'm talking to this lady. It's 2021. She survived it. [laughs] She's here to tell the tale, and she had a fun time." You've walked away with saying it was a great experience. Was it expensive? [00:14:35] Fleur Sharpe: Well, the way we did it, which is buying the whole thing. [00:14:37] Kerry Newsome: Well, you started with the French champagne. It kicked off with a good start. [00:14:40] Fleur Sharpe: [laughs] Yes, that was. It's the cobra was about-- I think you pay by the kilo. I think we paid about 250 USD for it. [00:14:52] Kerry Newsome: Wow. [00:14:52] Fleur Sharpe: But that could have easily fed six to eight people with that. We didn't need to do it that way. The other couple that came in were just ordering a few dishes. You weren't killing a whole snake just to feed them. You don't have to do it that way. I'd say if you're adventurous, and you want a good story to tell and good pictures to take home and add to your photo book, it’s certainly a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Yes, I'd highly, highly recommend it. [00:15:22] Kerry Newsome: You'd highly recommend it. Well, that's good to know. I think because we talk about going to Vietnam, some people get a little bit concerned about some of the species of animals [laughter] that can get dished up. Would you agree with me? You've got to go with an open mind, haven't you? [00:15:44] Fleur Sharpe: Everywhere you go over the world. I don't think you've got any business traveling if you're not up for experiencing and saying yes to things. Not taking stupid risks, but come on, don't go to Paris and order a burger. Don't go to Vietnam and expect to eat hotel food all the time. Get out there and try something new. Push your boundaries. That's a whole point of travel for me I think. [00:16:14] Kerry Newsome: Certainly, a cobra at 250 USD. That's a fairly big swag of money for a Vietnamese, yes, in Vietnamese terms. As you say, he is lucky that his virility could afford his wallet because [laughs] if he's got all those kids and that big family, he would need 250 USD, I guess, to spend it. What was the ambiance of the place? Talk to us a little bit. Was it terrible? [00:16:46] Fleur Sharpe: Terrible. [00:16:47] Kerry Newsome: Ow. It was really basic, was it? [00:16:49] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, it was like plastic chairs, but that's like how it is there, everywhere. [00:16:52] Kerry Newsome: That's perfect. [00:16:53] Fleur Sharpe: All I really cared about is it was air-conditioned because, stupidly, we went in July. It was air-conditioned. [00:17:00] Kerry Newsome: And it was the middle of the day. [00:17:01] Fleur Sharpe: Yes. There was an enormous stuffed snake, that was the decorator, that hung over us. I don't know what sort of snake it was, but it was ginormous. It was stuffed, and it was there. That was kind of a backdrop of it. You were immersed in a snake nirvana. [laughs] [00:17:22] Kerry Newsome: Yes, nirvana. Did you have any concerns about health and hygiene because this is another aspect that people come to me about? How did you feel about that? [00:17:36] Fleur Sharpe: I get that from a food point of view like food safety and all that, that's what I really find fascinating. Having worked in food safety here in Australia and the enormously precautious approach you have to take to food safety here. Yet over there, there is literally meat out on the street in the middle of the day in the heat. Food poisoning is actually pretty rare. I think you've got to be pretty smart about it. At the same time, it wasn't really something that I thought about too much because there are other ways of making sure that foods are properly prepared and stuff. That's probably why they deep fry a lot. They also use a lot of salt for preserving. That all helps. I think I wouldn't go, and I guess this is the point of why we're doing this today is giving a recommendation. If we hadn't read the reviews, and we hadn't seen that it had been a good experience for people, then we may not have gone. Do your research, but I think this experience, in particular, is not really for people that are overly precautious. At some point, you've just got to be all in and take a risk in order to have a great experience. I think that is also true of Vietnam [laughs] as a country. It's not a place for somebody that wants everything in its little box, yes, everything is predictable and planned out. It's probably not the country for you. Do you need that? [00:19:12] Kerry Newsome: No. I'm really glad you mentioned that because I think you do have to be realistic. People have come to me concerned about the health and hygiene of food because as you say, you'll go to the markets and there'll be fresh meat and fish and that out on tables. Once you dig in a little bit deeper and actually did another podcast with a chef in Vietnam, and she was saying, "But they do two kills a day." That meat that's out there early in the morning is actually all sold in about two hours, three hours tops. It's as fresh as you can get. Sure it's not refrigerated, but it's not there for very long before the restaurant, all the locals, etc. picked it up. I think the way they cook it and because of the deep frying and the high temperatures, you have got that, as you say, as a safety precaution You're right, if you've got a stomach that is a little bit delicate or some smells or as you say, rickety chairs and cobras stuffed on walls, and all of that's going to upset you, yes, don't go to a snake restaurant. I'm glad you mentioned the TripAdvisor and all the rest of it because I've used the podcast or what I'm doing with the podcast as almost your live trip advisor. People come on to share their experiences. We're in the middle of COVID. Hopefully, we're just coming out of COVID. Cross fingers. I'm really loving talking to people about their experiences of Vietnam. When people do a trip plan, if they want to do something adventurous, they can find you and this episode and go, "Hey, she came out of it with a smile on her face. She sounded like she had a great time." I think that's the whole gist of it for me. [00:21:16] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, I think so. I think that there comes a point. If you continue to keep looking, you can over research something. If it sounds like a good idea, and there are people out there that have corroborated that idea and go, "Yes, it's a good idea," then go with it. I think some people can have depth by research, and they talk themselves out of it at some point just go, "Yes. Let’s give this a go." [00:21:42] Kerry Newsome: Look. It's been great to have you on the show, Fleur. There's no way I would be sharing this experience with anybody. I won't be taking the recommendation, but more because I can't stand snakes, period, let alone eating them. I just want to make sure your husband and you are well and everybody at home is—well! [00:22:08] Fleur Sharpe: Yes, he's still alive. To give you some context, he ran a marathon. He ran 42 kilometers a couple of weeks ago. Maybe it was the snake. Maybe it was the penis. Who knew? But he's very, very well. [00:22:23] Kerry Newsome: Ow, that's fantastic. Fleur, just again, thanks for being on the show. [00:22:27] Fleur Sharpe: Pleasure. [00:22:29] Jingle: Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What About Vietnam. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam.

6be74599-4c80-4018-9b47-90e4003ef720Know the best time to as a travel manager and “its important”. What About Vietnam - Series 1 - 2 When is the best time of year to travel to Vietnam? Xing Chau and Welcome to What About Vietnam. My name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host. You are listening to the everything you need to know before you go... series where I take you through the process of planning your trip to Vietnam. My aim is to pass on as much information as I can to ensure you have a great trip. In the first episode we covered off some of the factors influencing your decision to visit Vietnam through a better understanding of the food, the people and the experiences you can expect. I hope you found that interesting. Today we take you one step closer to getting you on your plane to Vietnam. As we discuss the “when” to go? This is probably one of the most common questions I get asked as a travel blogger. The reason being is….. “its important”. Its where you move into that commitment phase. And in the case of Vietnam, the timing of your trip is crucial to ensure you get the experience you want. Its not a “Once size fits all answer, as it depends on the experiences you want to have during your trip, as they can be drastically impacted by the “when you go”. So do give it due consideration, whether you are traveling solo, in a group, or as a couple or family... So I want to take you through 2 factors you need to consider :- 1. Festivals that can impact your trip 2. The weather across the North, Central and southern regions. Lets firstly cover off the fact, that Vietnam celebrates many festivals across the year. In fact,... I used to think they had a festival for everything. Then I learned that as a country they are such a grateful nation of people, full of history which they honour in pilgrimages and special events; all in the advent of thanks and praise. Some of the festivals are amazing, they attract wide audiences, and you would want to be there to witness them. See in my notes a link to at 14 of the most famous ones. But the biggest one of all is TET, and this has a monumental effect on your holiday stay. What is TET Vietnam? Not to be confused with the TET offensive. Tet as it is so often called, because its too difficult to say the Vietnamese name,... is by far the most significant holiday and season in the Vietnam Calender. It is the Vietnamese New Year, based on the Lunar calendar, …. It also marks the coming of Spring. It celebrates the “Feast of the very First Morning.” This will make more sense once you appreciate the importance of Vietnamese traditions. Who and what happens on the first day of the New Year can set the tone for the rest of year so it is a day to be treated with respect. TET – Dates TET takes place from the first day of the first month of the Lunar calendar (around late January or early February) So it varies from year to year. See in my episode notes a link to a calender for the next 5 years for TET. When you are checking on your dates, take note that TET is known to Vietnamese as NEW YEARS DAY, and the day prior being New Years Eve. I can’t stress enough the fact that TET is not just a day, it can consume up to 9 days. It becomes an attitude. Everything either happens before TET or after, but not much during. By that, no big decisions will be made during TET. It is mainly about paying respects and just about "being" with the people you love. I am not going to go…. into too much more... detail here, other than to say, it is a beautiful time of the year especially building up to TET. Flowers abound and the whole country goes into a mode of gift giving, house cleaning and preparations for New Year. As I have travelled many times to Vietnam including during TET, I would like to give you this advice: 1. Planning:- Buy your travel tickets for travel during the TET season well in advance ( 3 days before New Year and 3 days after). This is for internal travel mostly, as there is a lot of movement within the country as Vietnamese travel home in droves to visit family and friends. 2. Scheduling - Be early at the airport, bus station or train as this is the busiest travel period for Vietnamese who travel long distances to visit family and friends and carry lots of luggage. 3. Trip bookings confirmations- Make sure you bring all your travel documents confirming all your travel arrangements, tickets, and emergency contact details. Don’t be sloppy with paperwork, it just adds to your time in a queue and holds everyone up. Expect queues. 4. Activity - Don’t expect to do too much activity wise on the actual National Holidays as many tourist attractions will be closed or at a minimum their hours will be reduced, and they may even charge an extra TAX. Be prepared to just chill out! 5. Check with your hotel or Homestay about what services will be operating for meals and what are the closest alternative eateries open. Now lets look at how weather will impact your choice of dates to travel. Firstly, the country is divided into 3 main regions, · North/ Mountain areas · Central · South The North (Hanoi, Halong Bay) is monsoonal with hot and and humid weather from April to September, which is when most people will travel. They do have an extremely cool dry season from October to March. Where it is puffer jacket weather and freezing cold and wet. I have had... back luck... on trips in late March at Halong Bay where it rained heavy and we all sat on the top deck of the junk with blankets provided by the staff watching the rain drop like pellets on the deck of the boat. All the while sipping ginger tea to keep warm. October and November are the best months to visit since you avoid the domestic tourist flow and also experience a more comfortable temperature and humidity compared with other months. The mountain area in Northwest , ( Areas like Sapa, Mau Chau, Be Be Lake, etc) see little fluctuation in weather conditions. It is fairly cool all year round and a great place to escape the heat from cities. However, if you are a trekker you might want to consider the rainy season is from May to September. March /April is cool and ideal for outdoor exploration. At the extreme side of things you can see snow or flurry in December or January in Sapa . Ive seen it in February. February in Be be lake was freezing - but gorgeous all the same as we had caves and grottoes all to ourselves, and the lake was crystal clear. So it depends on the kind of experiences you are wanting to do. The Central Region (Hue, Da Nang and Hoi An) receives dry and hot Southwest wind which makes it strenuous for any brisk walk during the day. Closer to the beach, the level of severity reduces and the dry wind is replaced by cool ocean breeze. Because of the limited land area, central Vietnam is also most susceptible to natural disasters such as hurricanes or flooding. The paradox is, it is also where most of the beautiful beaches lie. Jan- early March certainly are the cooler months. Beaches may be too cold to swim in unless you are a real cold water swimmer. By April through to October the weather gets warmer as the months of the go on, with June, July, Aug being the hottest. For people wanting to do any adventuring, ie Marble Mountain, My Son, etc you will find handling the heat and humidity a challenge. I mention this about this region, as it is one of the most popular long stay areas, Hoi An and Hue are super popular and for many good reasons. ….but I have witnessed travellers in our groups suffer badly as the weather takes a toll on the body when doing any significant walking etc. I have also known people endure the floods, which can come unexpectedly but most probably during the monsoonal months of November/December. Its worth doing some homework on weather as it impacts your preferred style of travel. The South ( Ho Chi Minh City, Nha Trang, Mui Ne) is typically hot all year round with two main seasons: rainy and dry. It is also the most predictable region in terms of weather. Summer months from May to August might not be the best time to hit the road since most tourists destinations are packed with tourists and downpours happen quite frequently. For milder weather, where at least you can walk around comfortably, I would suggest February, March, April. In fact March April, across the whole of Vietnam is my favourite and most highly recommended time of the year to do almost anything. In terms of cruising and experiencing the Mekong delta, due to the heat and humidity aspect in the middle of the year, I would suggest looking at Feb March In the summer months (June- Aug) it can be hard going, where mosquitoes are rife, and the experience can be made difficult for children, the less fit and mature travellers. However, if you love the heat, keeping hydrated is key, “slip slop slap” sunscreen, and make sure you wear strong insect repellant. More on that in another Episode. I hope in this session I have been able to outline some of the key factors in considering your dates for travel as they truly can make it or break it. Please check with the Episode notes for the links mentioned and feel free to contact me anytime. I look forward to paving the way for you to have a magical time in Vietnam as I share more trip planning tips over future episodes ... ….stay tuned for more to come in the super 6 series, Whatabout Vietnam - before you book. Thanks for listening. Listing for all the festivals across Vietnam;- https://traveltriangle.com/blog/festivals-in-vietnam/

dab37f6f-38a7-4c56-9b1a-56aec8510979Language tips in Vietnam Learn best shopping words What About Vietnam - S3-21 Learn the best Vietnamese words to use when shopping for bargains Kerry Newsome: 00:26 Xin Chào and welcome to “What About Vietnam!”. I'm delighted to have you back for the last in our little mini-series on learning a few words and phrases in Vietnamese with Ms. Hà. This is the last in the series. Just over the last few weeks, we've been going through some settings in which you may find yourself and certainly to have the advantage of being able to use some key words, in those circumstances, it’s going to make your experience so much richer. 01:13 In the first episode, we covered some greetings, words like please, and thank you, and hello, of course. Those beautiful words that just say that I've taken a little bit of interest about your country. And I understand that these words are words of welcome. And I'm glad to be here. 01:35 In the second episode, we look at dietary requirements. And I thought that was important, I hope you get something out of that. Because when you're in a restaurant and you do have certain dietary requirements, sometimes I do see people struggling, trying to get that request across to the waiter. So, words on how to summon the waiter to your table. If you're gluten-free, some of those words, it's not that easy to point to a picture that says 'gluten-free', 'or no spicy'. So, hopefully the words in episode two of this miniseries will help you there. 02:14 And today's episode is about shopping. And it's one of the best things that you can do in Vietnam, the shopping is wonderful. It's wide and varied. So, you're going to some shops. There are malls, there's everything, a western country would have, certainly in the major cities. And there are boutiques also that have fixed prices. But when you go to some of the markets and things like that, you are going to be bartering. So, making sure that you've got some words so that you can feel a little bit confident in that bartering space. 02:51 Now I have to admit, I'm not the best at bartering. But I never want to walk out, feeling like I've been ripped off. So, I try and play the game a little bit and Hà in this episode explains a little bit about that game. And the words to make that a fun experience. You don't want to get to hit up about 5000 Dong, when in your own currency that's only a few cents. So, just some key words to make that shopping experience fun and you walk out with what you want at the right price. Please welcome Hà back to the program. I'm sure she's going to share with you some really great insights, especially one of the last ones will really come in handy. Let's welcome Hà back to the program. 03:52 One last scenario, which I know, will come up for anyone who's traveling in Vietnam. I hope it does, anyway, is their experience in shopping and in a market. The market is a wonderful place to get to understand Vietnamese culture and all the rest of it. Sometimes I will look at something and I pick it up and I try and figure out how much it costs. But if I don't know the product, or I don't know the store owner or I don't know it well. I want to know how to say, 'how much'. Hà: 04:30 Bao, B, A, O. Bao nhiêu tiền? Kerry Newsome: 04:39 Bao nhiêu tiền? Hà: 04:41 Perfect. Kerry Newsome: 04:42 Bao nhiêu tiền? Hà: 04:44 Wow. Kerry Newsome: 04:45 T or diền? Bao nhiêu diền? Hà: 04:48 T. Kerry Newsome: 04:48 T. Bao nhiêu tiền? Hà: 04:50 Bao nhiêu tiền? How'd you get it right- Kerry Newsome: 04:52 Okay, am I going up or down with tone? Hà: 04:57 So tiền is a down tone, so bao nhiêu tiền? Kerry Newsome: 05:01 Bao nhiêu tiền? Hà: 05:03 Yeah, perfect. Yes. Kerry Newsome: 05:05 How much? Okay. And then another funny scenario. I actually did this with a girlfriend of mine, who's quite amazing, we sometimes travel together and when something is too expensive, she will go 'chúa ơi'. Yeah. And that is like, 'Oh my God'. Is that right? Hà: 05:30 Yes. Yes. That's correct. Kerry Newsome: 05:33 Yeah. Okay. When she says, 'chúa ơi', I always quickly turn around, because she doesn't normally say that but she's obviously shocked at the price they have given her or whatever. But if you want to say it is too expensive. What would you say? Hà: 05:53 You say 'đắt quá'. Kerry Newsome: 05:58 'Đắt quá'? Hà: 05:59 Yes, đắt quá. Kerry Newsome: 06:00 Đắt quá. Hà: 06:02 Chúa ơi! Đắt quá! Kerry Newsome: 06:06 So, you can put them together? "Oh, my God. Too expensive!" Yeah, that makes sense. 06:19 Just another one, because sometimes in the markets and you're dealing with people, I'm not very good at bartering, like the haggling the price. I just want to know what the bottom price is. So, I just say, "What is the best price?" They seem to understand what that means. But I don't say it in Vietnamese. Hà: 06:43 "What is the best price?" You can say... Kerry Newsome: 06:47 Is that a good thing to say? To get the bottom price. Hà: 06:51 Yes, it is a good thing to say. But then you come up with kind of strategy. I'm just like... So, we don't directly say it, basically like, literally say, "What is the best price?" We try to use such things to make them say the best price. So, it's kind of very hard, and not for me to sum up with a sentence, say, "What is the best price?" Of course, I can give you the literally, how you say that. Kerry Newsome: 07:26 But you're saying, in this scenario, you wouldn't use it. Hà: 07:30 I wouldn't use it. I would just somehow do some trick to make them say the best price they got for me. Kerry Newsome: 07:38 Is it Chúa ơi!? Hà: 07:41 No, if you say “Chúa ơi!”, they will say Chúa ơi! back to you and say, "No, this is not expensive at all." Yeah, but I can give you the literal sentence, what to say, "What is the best price?" 'Giá', which means price. 'Tốt, nhất', N, H, A, T. 'Của bao là'. Kerry Newsome: 08:20 Is there a simple way to ask or get to the best price? Hà: 08:25 No, no, because the best price is- it's literally saying, 'Giá tốt nhất', or you just keep saying, 'bao nhiêu, bao nhiêu'. And then you say, "I want to buy it" and "bao nhiêu". So, you just say- Kerry Newsome: 08:41 What does 'bao nhiêu' mean? Hà: 08:42 'Bao nhiêu' means 'How much', as in, 'Bao nhiêu tiền'. Yeah, you keep asking. For example, they say a 200,000 VND. And then you think, it's too expensive. You say, "Không! bao nhiêu?" And then you keep asking them. Không means no. "No! how much? How much it actually is?" And then you just keep asking, very politely, very calm. Because I think it's just the game, you don't get excited, and you don't get- Kerry Newsome: 09:16 No, I agree. Hà: 09:17 And then you just calmly say that. And then finally you get what you want. And she gets what she wants. So, win-win situation. Kerry Newsome: 09:26 Sometimes I just kind of see some people and I wanted to stress this for everyone listening. Sometimes I see people getting upset or angry over like 5000 Dong, which is a very small amount to be getting upset or angry or causing disruption. And I want people to remind themselves of what 5000 means in their currency, because with the Australian currency, it's kind of under $1 and it's not 60 cents, it's like nothing. Hà: 10:05 It's like nothing. Yes, true. It happens with me too as a Vietnamese when I do bargain, it's not only to Westerners or tourists or foreigners. It's happened to me too, because sometimes you get in too much into the game, you forget how it [inaudible10:19], so it was like, "Let my evil win." I just want to win. [laugher] Kerry Newsome: 10:27 Yeah, and I didn't understand, I didn't actually understand that it is a bit of a game, isn't it? Like, I know, my Vietnamese friend. She says, "We're just having fun." Like, "She understands I want to buy it. I will buy it. But she needs to give me good price. And don't worry, we're not upset with one another." Yeah, because sometimes it goes on and on. Hà: 10:50 And on and on. Yeah. Kerry Newsome: 10:52 I just want to get it and go, etc. Okay, so when I decide, I don't want to buy it, because I just changed my mind. And I want to say, "No, thank you." Hà: 11:08 You say, "Không, cảm ơn." Kerry Newsome: 11:15 So, you just put those two together. And that's okay. Hà: 11:18 "No, thank you". Yes. Say, "Không, cảm ơn." Kerry Newsome: 11:19 Yeah, okay, good. 11:27 You just want to go in and you just want to do looking. So, I want to be able to say, "I am just looking, just looking." Because I want them to understand I don't want to get in a game with them, I pick something up and they automatically think I want to buy it. I'm just looking at it. How do I say, "Just looking!" Hà: 11:47 "Just looking!" Just is 'chỉ'. Looking is 'xem'. X, E, M. Chỉ xem. Kerry Newsome: 12:07 Chỉ xem. So, if I just go in and I'm looking at something, but I'm not really sure I'm going to buy anything, I just say, "Chỉ xem." Hà: 12:20 Or you can say, "I'm just looking." You can say, ‘tôi’, which is T, O, I, tôi, it means 'me'. You can use it in every sentence. You just put the word in. "Tôi chỉ xem." Kerry Newsome: 12:35 Good. That's handy. Because I love shopping in Vietnam, but I look around a lot. Okay, that is fantastic. I think we covered good conversation; do you think? And good markets. Good restaurants. Basic. Are there any other words you think would be good for us to know? Hà: 12:48 "Where is the toilet?" Because actually, that is very useful because when you are in the market- Kerry Newsome: 13:11 Yes, it's very good one. Hà: 13:13 So, you can say, "Toilet ở đâu?" Kerry Newsome: 13:22 "Toilet ở đâu?" Is that down tone? Hà: 13:28 Yes, đâu is a neutral tone. And ở is a little bit- Kerry Newsome: 13:35 "Toilet ở đâu?" That's a good one. Hà: 13:42 Yeah, I think that's a very common- I don't I think, as a tourist, I would like to ask where's the toilet when I'm in the market? Yeah. Kerry Newsome: 13:51 Yeah. Do think maybe it's good to have one about taxi or...? Hà: 13:57 Taxi. Yeah, you can try it, or taxi. How can you say, you can say...? Kerry Newsome: 14:11 Where do I go to get taxi? Hà: 14:14 You can say, "Taxi ở đâu?" Which is ở đâu, it's the same with the last sentence that I just said. "Where's the toilet?" Ở đâu were. Yes. "Taxi ở đâu?" Kerry Newsome: 14:27 "Taxi ở đâu?" So that's: "Where is taxi?" Okay, Hà, that's terrific. That's really, really great. I feel like even I might improve on my next visit. That is wonderful. Hà: 14:38 I hope, yeah. Kerry Newsome: 14:45 Anything else you want to add? Or do you think we've got enough for- Hà: 14:49 I think that's pretty much- every basic thing that you need. But I think, I just want to give you a tip, to all the tourists that want to visit Vietnam, and you want to be a little bit polite. You can say, 'Em ơi'. If you want to call someone, you can call them, 'Em ơi'. Em is for the big brother, who's older than you. Like for example, if you see a taxi driver, you can call them 'em ơi', which is also common for Mister. 'Em ơi.' Kerry Newsome: 15:33 'Em ơi.' Hà: 15:35 It's very polite and I think a lot of people will like it. Yeah. Kerry Newsome: 15:38 Okay, that's good. Hà: 15:40 Okay, thank you. Pronunciation Notes English Vietnamese Phonetic No Không Khung How much? Bao nhiêu tiền? Bao new ti-en How much? (2) Bao nhiêu? Bao new Oh my God! Chúa ơi! Choy oy Too expensive! Đắt quá Dat koo-aa Price Giá Ya What is the best price? Giá tốt, nhất của bao là? Ya tot ni-et coo-aa bao la No, thank you. Không, cảm ơn. Khung, cam urn Just looking! Chỉ xem Chi sem Just Chỉ Chi Looking Xem Sem I Tôi To-e I am just looking. Tôi chỉ xem To-e chi sem Where’s the toilet? Toilet ở đâu? Toilet uh dao Where’s the taxi? Taxi ở đâu? Taxi uh dao Where Ở đâu Uh dao Hi! (To call someone politely) Em ơi! Em oy

S6-E11 What is the authentic experience of Vietnam < Back S6-E11 What is the authentic experience of Vietnam S6-E11 What is the authentic experience of Vietnam 00:00 / 17:28 Series 6. Episode 11. What is the authentic experience of Vietnam? Is there only one way to experience the authentic Vietnam? For years, travellers have been told that the "real" Vietnam exists somewhere beyond the tourist trail — hidden in remote villages, mountain passes and places untouched by mass tourism. But is that still true today? And perhaps more importantly, is Vietnam now so much more than the familiar images of conical hats, rice fields and water buffaloes that first captured our imagination? In this episode of What About Vietnam, I explore the idea that authentic travel isn't necessarily about how far off-grid you go, but how deeply you connect with the places, people and experiences that matter to you. With social media constantly showcasing hidden villages, remote mountain passes and lesser-known destinations, it's easy to feel that popular places like Hanoi, Ha Long Bay, Hoi An or Ho Chi Minh City are somehow less worthy of your time. But is that really true? Drawing on my own travels throughout Vietnam, including experiences in places such as Dalat, Phong Nha and Mu Cang Chai, I explore the reality behind the idea that authentic travel only happens beyond the tourist trail. We discuss the pros and cons of venturing further afield, the practical challenges that can come with it, and why some travellers return feeling more exhausted than enriched. Kerry stresses that travelers should not feel pressured to conform to a specific narrative of what an authentic experience should look like. Whether it's enjoying a Michelin-starred meal, participating in a cooking class, or relaxing at a wellness retreat, all these experiences contribute to a broader understanding of the Vietnam of today! This episode isn't about choosing one style of travel over another. It's about giving yourself permission to travel Vietnam in a way that suits your interests, comfort level, budget and goals. You'll discover: 00:01:18 - The Concept of "Real Vietnam" 00:06:10 - Authenticity and Social Media Influence 00:07:04 - Evaluating Off-Grid Travel Experiences 00:08:19 - Wellness Retreats and Authenticity 00:11:08 - Planning and Logistics of Vietnam Travel 00:12:13 - Avoiding Travel Pressure and Discomfort 00:13:38 - Travel Advice for Families and Elderly 00:14:54 - Embracing Modern and Traditional Vietnam In all my years of travel in this country and others, choosing what you want is more important than collecting bragging rights for Instagram, after all, it’s your money, time and joy that counts the most. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Have you ever felt pressure to travel beyond your comfort zone simply because everyone else seems to be doing it? Do you have a travel question or wish to give some feedback? You have 90 seconds. Click to read the voicemail recording policy Previous Next

27fcfe66-c320-414c-b15d-674d1870cf91Be pleasantly surprised by the views of this teenager What About Vietnam - S3-25 One teenagers views on a holiday in Vietnam Kerry Newsome: 00:00 Ethan Sanders, welcome to "What About Vietnam " podcast. Lovely to have you on the show. Ethan Sanders: 00:07 Thanks. Good to be here. Kerry Newsome: 00:09 Well, we have talked about doing this for a long time. And I have thought, probably now was good because travel has opened up to Vietnam. So, whilst, for the last two years, it has been a closed door. Everybody is super excited because Vietnam is now opening up to tourism again. Now, I know our trip together was a while back, as in, you were just a 16-year-old lad at that time. And it was the year 2019. So, pre COVID, not much before COVID, but certainly pre COVID. 00:55 As I ask these questions with great interest to how you are going to answer them, because you have warned me that you are going to answer with great sincerity and honesty. So, I think that is going to be helpful for everyone, I hope, hand on heart. So, I will start, right in the beginning, when it was suggested to you that you would come to Vietnam, and you would meet me in Vietnam. So, before you went, what did you actually know about Vietnam? And were you nervous or did you have any kind of interpretations? Talk to us on that scale? Ethan Sanders: 01:39 Well, I did not really have a huge mindset towards Vietnam. I did not really know heaps about it. Everyone, you get the occasional Instagram story that has like the frogs and stuff like that. And I was like, I was not really expecting that. But would have been funny to say that and all that. And yes, it was good, a little worried about the language barrier, and all that, with flying over by myself and stuff and getting there and not knowing where to go. And I do not understand stuff. And I did not know how I was really going to go. But it is good to have an open mindset going across. Turned out pretty good. Kerry Newsome: 02:22 That is, actually the end of the story, but good to know in advance. Ethan Sanders: 02:22 There is a path to it. Kerry Newsome: 02:32 Yes, exactly. So, you have arrived into Hồ Chí Minh City? Ethan Sanders: 02:38 Yep. Kerry Newsome: 02:38 And of course, I am there to meet you at the other side. But what was your first impression of Vietnam? Like, what really smacked you in the face and said, "Wow, this is Vietnam." What was that? Ethan Sanders: 02:52 It was probably the taxi drive. Well, as soon as I exited the airport, that intense heat wave that hit me in the face was probably the first thing. And then that taxi ride from the airport to the hotel. That was when I realized like, that was a shock. That was like, kind of everything came at me all at once. And I mean, it was not like scary or anything like that. It was just like a realization of like, "Wow, okay, I'm in like a fully different country and everything." Kerry Newsome: 03:28 And like, you have traveled to other countries before. So, you have been to the US and places like that. But that cultural difference that kind of stood out for you. Like you were definitely in an Asian country for a start. Ethan Sanders: 03:46 I could be like, because I've been to America and Australia. And there is some similarities there a little bit like, I could be standing in the street in America in a suburban area. And I could be standing in the street in Australia in a suburban area, and there would be a lot in similar. But in Vietnam, it is like, okay, I definitely am in Vietnam, like this is Vietnam. 100% Yes, that was good. Kerry Newsome: 04:14 Did you find that kind of overwhelming? Some people just see the traffic and the motorbikes and they are quite like, "Oh, wow, I don't know how we are going to cope with this. Did you get that feeling? Ethan Sanders: 04:27 It was slightly intense getting over there. But it was like, this is how they live and it is a day-to-day life for them as well. So, it was pretty much like, I'm a tourist, I'm coming over. I am just going to experience that culture and stuff like that. And just go into it with an open mindset. And I mean, yes, obviously, when you are driving through the whole traffic area, and the car is like, on top of your car. It is like it is close, but it's like, it's okay because you know, especially if you go with family, you got someone to experience that or even if they haven't experienced that you're not by yourself, you know? Kerry Newsome: 05:06 Sure, exactly. If I were to ask you like, what was the best thing that you would say about Vietnam? Like, you know, I talked to families all the time and I am talking to people and trying to give them some insights, share some ideas and try and make them feel comfortable about the idea of going that there is a lot to do. There is a lot to see for a teenager. Like what thing would you say about Vietnam, to another teenager that might be handy for them to know, or sort of might resonate with them more? Ethan Sanders: 05:48 Yes. Well, I reckon, there is like so much to do, like, there will not be a time you go over there. And there is not something to do. But also, as a teenager, I maintain now, we all like to kick back and chill sometimes. So, I will say the hotel, hella cheap. It is really good. Really good. There is like bars in the pool. You can really chillax and stuff like that. And also, even with experience and stuff that you cannot do, there is a lot of relaxing stuff that is actually like really fun to do. Kerry Newsome: 06:24 And did you find the heat? Talk to us about the heat, we went in September. Because it was just 16th birthday. Describe the heat for people how you felt about that? Ethan Sanders: 06:40 So, hotel was awesome with the heat. You get into your hotel, tell chill, and then you go outside, and you have that heatwave. It is not like unbearable. Like you can deal with it. It is just humid. It is a bit hot. And maybe carry a can of deodorant with you. But, besides that, it is not as bad as like a heatwave hitting your face. You can deal with it. Kerry Newsome: 07:14 Okay. All right. So, let us just talk about we started in Hồ Chí Minh City. So, we had a couple of nights there. And then we moved on to Hội An. And we walked around the streets of Hồ Chí Minh City. And we went to one of the major markets, the Ben Thanh markets. Do you want to just talk about that experience at Ben Thanh Market? Ethan Sanders: 07:43 So, we left the hotel and walking to the markets was a little intense. You know, you got the very wide range of street life that's kind of going on. And it is like, kind of non-stop movement, like, no one stops, it's, go, go, go, 100% of the time. And you are trying to move through that which is a bit of a maze, but you get through it at the end. Yes, the markets were awesome. They sold everything. Do not go to the fish section at all. Do not go. Kerry Newsome: 08:30 Why not, Ethan? What is wrong with the fish section? Talk to us. Ethan Sanders: 08:34 Well, as I said, it is hot and then you mix fish into that. No, it is not bad. Do not even go past it. Just like really avoid that area. Unless you are okay with the fish smell. Kerry Newsome: 08:50 All right, so we managed to get through that. But you were definitely noticeable in markets. Ethan Sanders: 09:00 Yes, I do have red hair. Like you pointed that out. Yes, we did get occasional stares. Almost I think, I was about six feet back then. So, it was like a walking giant with red hair. So, it was not hard to miss. Kerry Newsome: 09:18 Yes, there was a definite novelty factor. Therefore, a lot of people and you certainly had the height, so you could kind of see above all of them. And there was not going to be an easy chance of you picking something off a rack to fit you. You were six feet. So, we moved out of there as I could see the maybe some of the aromas or color aromas not appealing to you at all. So, we had that very short, like in out, but then we went to an ordinary mall, didn't mean? Ethan Sanders: 10:04 We did. Kerry Newsome: 10:05 Except for the fact that there were not many shoe shops with your sizes in them. Ethan Sanders: 10:10 Yes, there, we could not find one shoe shop that had my size in it. I am a size 13. So that is generally a pretty big shoe. But yes, it was like this is not built for my size. Kerry Newsome: 10:28 Exactly. And that's kind of important to note. Because a lot of us are not that small, as in the size that the average Vietnamese would be. So, for a Westerner, thinking that you are just going to automatically get sizes that fit you may not be the go. So, we moved on from there. And then we headed to Hội An. So, do you want to describe for people, your view of Hội An and that hotel that we stayed at? Ethan Sanders: 11:03 Yes, so Hội An wasn't really massive on the skyscraper kind of side of things. It was more hotels and was more like suburban. And it was a little bit suburban kind of. And that was nice. It was kind of what my view of Vietnam before I went over was, and it was more open. It was nice. Yes, it is good. Kerry Newsome: 11:34 Do you recall the Old Town side of it as it almost looks like one's kind of created this scene? Because it has so much history attributed to it. And it is still intact as the old town. Ethan Sanders: 11:53 It was really awesome how they kind of held that history with how they moved forward with it. And that did hold a lot of it. There was like, honestly, no matter where you look, there was something historical. Yes, took you back. It was good. Kerry Newsome: 12:07 If you had to recall an experience or a lasting memory that you want to share with us. We were able to spend three or four days there and we did some of your chilling that you mentioned by the pool, in the pool. Kerry Newsome: 12:33 Absolutely has to feature, definitely. So, there is plenty of that. But do you have an experience that we did together that that you would like to share, and be nice this is your chance, Ethan. Ethan Sanders: 12:49 I got two experiences. So, I will start with the less embarrassing one. The food tastes, we went to a cooking, like we got to make food and stuff which was really cool because we got there on a boat and then we got onto the back of a cart with a... What was that animal called? Kerry Newsome: 13:15 Buffalo. Ethan Sanders: 13:15 Buffalo, that is the one. And then it took us all the way there. That was an experience just like getting on the boat and then the Buffalo and then we had the hats and everything. Honestly, if you go, you have got to got to embrace, just do it as bad, as embarrassing as you think it is. It will be an experience you will remember for life. It is honestly the best. 13:38 We made a bunch of food, which was awesome food. That was honestly, the best food. I honestly think of Vietnamese food before I went over. I was like. I mean what teenagers hell of veggie with it, you know, we do not like vegetarian stuff. And I mean, if you do, you love Vietnamese food. But honestly, the way they mix their food, just is awesome. And they showed us a bunch of cool ways on how to make that and the people were honestly the nicest people ever. And we had a bunch of laughs with them, which was good. 14:18 Then the second experience was Marble Mountain. We got off of the taxi on the way there and the mountain is like a bunch of marble everywhere. I mean, it is called Marble Mountain, you would not expect anything less. It is huge. We had a choice to either go up the elevator or the steps. And we pick the steps. That is why, it is one of my experiences. [laughter] Kerry Newsome: 14:54 It was a very hot day, I wanted to remind people. Ethan Sanders: 14:57 It was a very hot day. Kerry Newsome: 14:59 And it was still 8 o'clock in the morning? Ethan Sanders: 15:01 Yes. Well, to give you an example of how it was. The end, like last route up the stairs was called Heaven's Gate. So, it was up there, and it was hot as well. And the steps were not very aligned on the thing. So, you had the occasional massive step. And then the occasional tiny one, but majority were massive. Went out there, they showed us all the historical things and some of their culture and religion and stuff like that, which was really nice. Gave you a good view, and you could tell how that related into that people as well. And then we got to Heaven's Gate, which was awesome. Kerry Newsome: 15:52 I cannot believe you are being careful, Ethan. Ethan Sanders: 15:55 I am getting a stare of death. They are like... Kerry Newsome: 15:58 Oh, not true! Ethan Sanders: 16:01 Then we got to the top, like, sweaty as hell, not a hell a bunch of water. So, we are kind of borderline dying at the top. I mean, this thing was like, it was up there. Like, even for a teenager and everything that was hot. That was difficult. And then got to the top of Heaven's Gate, sat there for about 10 minutes, just preparing ourselves all the way down. It was a good view at the top, so why not? And then we slowly proceeded to take our way down to the bottom of the hill, all the way down the steps, which was good. It took us a bit. Kerry Newsome: 16:48 Yeah, I think for everyone listening, you need to kind of get a visual on this where my grandson is trying to get his head around the fact that I'm not navigating these steps particularly well, because I'm exhausted. I have not done this for a long time. And there is something about the heat on the marble, which makes them kind of slightly damp and slippery, quite slippery. So, Ethan is having a laugh at my expense, about my inability, that he is not used to seeing me try to navigate these steps. So, along the way, I was getting lots of jabs about that. And feel the need to get back into my fitness. Ethan Sanders: 17:41 Good jokes. But it is fun. Kerry Newsome: 17:44 Yes. So that was great. But one of the things if I could add to the story, was you saying to me, "I think the best part of this is that there is an air-conditioned car." Ethan Sanders: 17:59 We had the taxi drop us off, he stayed there the whole time. And then we came back, getting into that taxi, honestly was amazing. It was the best thing ever. Kerry Newsome: 18:16 Yes, we were pretty hot and exhausted after that and in hysterics, after the navigation down the mountain with yours truly, let us move on from there, Ethan. Ethan Sanders: 18:31 Wait. You know, when you have been talking to someone the whole time, and then you are so tired. When you get into the space of relaxation, and you do not say anything. It is just dead silence of exhaustion. That is what that entire taxi ride back was. Kerry Newsome: 18:50 Yes. I had visions of the swimming pool at the other end. And that was all I could focus on was me diving into the water. Maybe not even coming out the other side. Yes, now I am with you. Ethan Sanders: 19:05 I am same. Kerry Newsome: 19:06 Can you put your headset on for a moment, if you will, just to think about maybe other younger people, kids, etc. coming to Vietnam, is there anything that you would warn them out about or give him a heads up about to say, don't let this kind of do your head in. Just go with the flow or I do not know, I do not want to put words in your mouth. Are there any things if you are talking to your mates to say, if you are going to go to Vietnam, what would you say? Just to warn out. Ethan Sanders: 19:46 Honestly, just have an open mindset. Honestly, just do it. Have fun. Yes, you will embarrass yourself as hell but it is so fun. Like if you just got in the heat. You do not feel it. If you are doing stuff like if you are doing something and you're concentrating on something else, you will not feel that heat at all. And honestly, just have it booked out before you go. Maybe do not do it and just try stuff, look up some stuff and research a bit before you go over, of course. And then, but honestly, once you get that, if you just have an open mindset towards everything, as much as you will get embarrassed and feel like an idiot, you will have so much fun. Kerry Newsome: 20:31 All right, I want to speak to a little bit about the beaches. And I think, we went to a really nice beach cafe, if you recall, that was right on the beach. So that was out at An Bang. Do you want to describe the setting? It was very relaxed, Ethan Sanders: 20:53 It was very relaxed, open space, it was honestly, trying to find it was a little bit but as soon as you found it, it was like in this little, it is like going through a little door and it opens up to a huge, awesome space. And it had an awesome bar. And plenty of drinks there as well, which would be great. Now, I am older than eighteen which is good. I do not 100% go back for that. It is like, even in Hồ Chí Minh, and in Hội An is like party central. Honestly, it is like you are going to have a good time, especially as a teenager. And it is really cheap as well. We will get drinks for what we got a coke for like $1.50 or $2 or something like that. It was honestly, like you could have so much fun for so little amount of money. And honestly, it is memorable and the beach was awesome. It was an awesome view. We had the city on our left, and then down the rest of the beach and we went down onto the beach, you could walk on the beach a bit. Kerry Newsome: 22:03 It was hard to compare, isn't it? Because you live in Sydney and to try find the an exact comparison, there really is not one. Ethan Sanders: 22:14 You really could not find, no chance of that. Kerry Newsome: 22:19 Big question, I guess, to just wrap things up with you, Ethan. Would you recommend Vietnam as a holiday destination for teenagers? Ethan Sanders: 22:30 100% for teenagers. If you embrace it, you will have a good time. And yes, 100%. People are the nicest people. I promise you, if you go there, you will have fun. Kerry Newsome: 22:44 Okay, and last question just to wrap this up. Because you are now two years old. So, you are eighteen legally. Do you think you will go back and if you do go back, what would you do differently? Or what would you add on to it, do you think? Ethan Sanders: 23:05 I ‘d go Hồ Chí Minh and Hội An. I would do the exact same how we did it in Hồ Chí Minh to Hoi An. And I have noticed in Hồ Chí Minh a very wide range of club and bar life. So, I would definitely check that out heaps. Especially, because I can drink and all that now, so that would be awesome. And because the hotel that we got there was really good. So, I can like go out clubbing bars and then come back, and I would like chill time as we all think 18-year-olds enjoy. 100% go back. 23:48 Honestly, I would still experience the stuff that we did, because of course you do not need to be hammered to have a good time. Especially, the food making, Marble Mountain, it is really good with mates. I know for a fact; I would have 1000s of laughs with my mates just to embarrass each other. And even with parents or just as a teenager with, honestly anyone, I personally would not go by myself. I would invite a mate or go with someone only because it is a lot more fun and it is just good to have someone there that you know as well. It is not as overwhelming. Yeah, I would 100% go back just for the nightlife. I would go back just to have awesome times with mates and other family and friends and stuff like that. Kerry Newsome: 24:44 Okay, do you think you might check out some other places like maybe go north into the mountains and higher up? Ethan Sanders: 24:52 I would 100% head around, check out some new spots, like definitely do my research before I go over and if I am, seems like some cool activities and stuff that I can, whoever I’m with would enjoy with me. I would 100% check those out. Kerry Newsome: 25:08 And you might even know somebody who does a podcast, who you happen to be related to, might be able to help you out. Ethan Sanders: 25:16 I would probably start here for research, honestly. Kerry Newsome: 25:22 That was the right answer. That was definitely the right answer. Thanks, Ethan.

What You Can't always know about Vietnam until you get here < Back What You Can't always know about Vietnam until you get here What You Can't always know about Vietnam until you get here 00:00 / 24:03 Series 6 Episode 14: What You Can't always know about Vietnam until you get here Throughout this series, I've answered the questions travellers know to ask. But today, for the final episode of Series 6 – One Question at a Time, I want to answer the questions you probably won't even think to ask… because they're the little things you only discover once you're here in Vietnam. You've listened to the podcasts. Read the blogs. Watched the YouTube videos. You've done your homework. Yet Vietnam still has a wonderful way of surprising you. In this episode, I'm sharing seven of those unexpected realities that no booking website, weather app or guidebook can fully prepare you for. These aren't travel mistakes—they're simply the little nuances that experienced travellers learn along the way. From choosing the right hotel atmosphere for your travel style, to understanding why distances take longer than expected, navigating immigration queues, and leaving enough room in your itinerary for those magical unplanned moments—these are the insights that can quietly transform a good holiday into a great one. If this is your first trip to Vietnam, consider this the conversation I wish every traveller could have before they arrive. In this episode 00:00 – Welcome to the Series 6 finale: the questions you don't even know to ask 02:10 – Why Vietnam's weather forecast doesn't always tell the whole story 05:15 – Your hotel has a personality too—and it may not suit yours 08:35 – Vietnam measures time differently: why distances can be deceiving 11:45 – When English suddenly disappears in rural Vietnam 14:55 – Immigration queues, airport arrivals and why your holiday may not start quite as you imagined 17:50 – Why hotel photos don't always tell the full story 20:50 – The biggest mistake isn't what you booked… it's what you didn't leave room for 23:20 – Final thoughts and thank you for joining me throughout Series 6 Three Key Takeaways ✓ Some of the biggest influences on your Vietnam holiday can't be found on Google or booking websites—they're only discovered through experience. ✓ Vietnam rewards travellers who allow flexibility, stay curious and don't try to over-schedule every moment. ✓ The memories you'll treasure most are often the ones you never planned. Do you have a travel question or wish to give some feedback? You have 90 seconds. Click to read the voicemail recording policy Previous Next

f869da4e-5155-49cf-a089-fb57696dcfa9How much time to allow for a visit and to where. Travelling to Vietnam part 2 - How much time do you need Episode 15 S3-15 Travel time in Vietnam P2 00:00 / 32:21 In this Episode we explore the value of time on a holiday in Vietnam. This is part 2 - with Miquel Angel. While we discussed in Part 1, the aspects of travel opening up to 5 provinces from November 2021. In this Part 2, we expand the travel opening conversation and unpack the normal trip duration of 14 days, to see the main destinations. From this starting point we discover the highlights and lowlights impacted by how much time you have in each place. Miquel and I share many funny anecdotal experiences that are definitely impacted by how much time you have and how wisely you use that in each destination you go to. During the episodes (Part 2 &3) we flesh out the typical experiences of this 14 day trip and how they could be better managed if the focus was on particular regions ie The South, Central, Highlands and Northern regions. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

cd6811b6-5086-4174-8bab-bb04fa9d2ec2Samantha Coomber guides us through Saigon's districts Best districts of Saigon HCMC 2021 Episode 3 S3-03 Saigon HCMC Districts 00:00 / 42:51 This is the ultimate guide to the best districts to explore in Saigon. Together with my guest Samantha Coomber we explore the new, old, and developing districts of the city. Our focus is on the districts of 1, 2, 3 and 5. In passionate detail, Samantha offers up those districts and close neighbourhoods that are rich in culture, street food, markets, cafes, and pagodas. And for those looking for something very diverse, she tells us about gondolas, sunset cruises, and speedboats that buzz you down the river and make you feel like you are in a James Bond movie. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript

8b53cf12-8a94-41dc-a38d-cadd748c7d08We discuss the fun of trail marathons in Vietnam The fun of trail marathons in Vietnam Episode 21 The fun of trail marathons in Vietnam 00:00 / 39:25 If you love competitive running and enjoy the spirit of a trail series, then this episode will cover what you need to know and much more. However, if you see this title and immediately think this is NOT for you. You may do a 360. Like I did. I am assured you don’t have to be a super athlete to have fun and enjoy the spectacular scenery you will experience by joining any one of the Topas Trail Series marathons. David Lloyd, Sport and Race Director for the Vietnam Trail Series and my guest on today’s show, tells me you can go as slow or as fast as you like; and you only have to be of average fitness and enjoy walking and being outdoors. Yes, "that's me", I hear you say! Okay, so training starts now! Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S5-E16-Smart phone Apps and tech tips for travellers to Vietnam S5-E16 - Smart phone Apps and tech tips for travellers to Vietnam Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Today we're going to be getting you smartphone ready for Vietnam. We're going to be talking about some ways to use some apps to make your trip more enjoyable, maybe a little bit more hassle free, if that's a better term. We're also going to be giving you some tips on the most common ones used in Vietnam. And I'm going to be doing that with a very regular traveler. to Vietnam who operates a remote business called Intentional Travelers. And she has a lot to help us with just ways that we can get a little bit more smartphone savvy in Vietnam. And I know because I work remotely, it's really handy to get on top of these things and get prepared for Vietnam and a few of its nuances. So, let's introduce Michelle Chang to the program. Hello, Michelle. Michelle Chang: Thanks, Kerry. It's a pleasure to be here. Kerry Newsome: Now, Michelle, I'm really keen to talk to you today about this subject as I think, you know, I think travelers do need some level of digital and phone literacy in today's travel environment. So I'm really keen to kind of explore some of the things probably both of us have used. But, you know, I know my travelers need to have this under their belt to make their trip just that much more enjoyable. So maybe tell us, Michelle, how did you find yourself in Vietnam? Michelle Chang: Sure. Well, it was actually not on the top of my list. However, we had some really good friends who moved to Vietnam for work. They were working with a non-profit for five years in Hanoi, and we couldn't pass up the opportunity to visit them while they were there and experience the country with their help. And, honestly, I'm not sure if I would have gone because Vietnam did just feel intimidating and very foreign, you know, not knowing the language. But they were able to, you know, show us around, teach us how to cross the street in Hanoi, which is a big deal. And all of those kind of things. And so we stayed with them for two weeks the first year. We actually loved it. We went back again the next year and stayed with them two more weeks. And from there, we felt a little bit more comfortable and decided to venture on our own. And I had seen great things about Hoi An. I believe this was 2016. So we ventured down that way into central Vietnam for the first time, stayed with a homestay, and just fell in love with that family. They were really into cross-cultural exchange. They took us to, you know, their ancient uh, sites that were nearby to their family home and family lunches and drove us around on their motorbikes. And so that was really special. So because of all those connections, we ended up going back again and again. And each time we went back, we actually stayed longer and longer until this past year, we stayed for the full three months that our visa would allow. So that's how we ended up in Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: Wow. It actually mirrors a lot how I, I guess, developed my more in-depth relationship with Vietnam. Certainly from 2016, I found myself in a similar situation. Just the more I saw, the more I got to know the Vietnamese, the more I explored the country, it just It just took me over. I just fell in love with it. So, I totally get where you're coming from on that sphere. Let's talk about some of the common mistakes that you've seen travelers make with their phones and just data abroad so we can kick off this subject and get a bit deeper into it. Michelle Chang: Sure. Well, I would say even just a few years ago, it was easier to travel without using your phone too much. But not just in Vietnam, but around the world, it's becoming increasingly more important because airlines are switching to digital tickets. And sometimes you need to get confirmations digitally. So if you're not connected by your phone, that can really get you into trouble. But some of the common mistakes People are used to using their phone every day at home, which is great, but a lot of times that's not enough and there's some new practices, habits, new settings that you might need to try. So for example, I've seen a lot of people that visit us when we're in Vietnam who lose charge on their phone very easily because they're not used to using their phone almost all day every day, whether it's, you know, they're using a map or the translate, taking pictures, and they're out, you know, from their hotel, they're out and about, so they're not near a charger. So that's one thing is just every night, make sure that you're charging it all the way up. And if you can get one of those portable battery chargers to carry with you. So if you do run out of battery, you can charge your phone on the go. Another big mistake, I would say, at least for Americans, I'm not sure what it's like in Australia, but the home phone carriers that we have They offer international plans, which are convenient, but they're often not a great deal compared to the other options that are out there for getting international phone data. And if you don't have an international plan, some of us have made mistakes and learned the hard way, you make a two minute phone call outside your country and it ends up being like a shockingly high bill. Absolutely. So the good news is that there are other options, and we have tested a lot of them, but more recently we end up using eSIMs quite frequently just because of the ease of setting it up. It's still very cost effective, but which option is right for you depends on your phone, your data needs, if your phone is unlocked, and those kind of things. The other thing I have found is a lot of people don't know how much data they actually need when they're purchasing these international plants. They end up overpaying or just overusing data that they don't need to. We met a family when we were in Halong Bay, and it was really neat. This young family was traveling the world and doing their schooling for a year from abroad with two kind of preteen kids. And they were each using at least a gig of data a day. And compared to what Jed and I use, it's really only less than three gigs for a whole month, because we know how to manage our data and when to use Wi-Fi and what apps to use on Wi-Fi and what we prioritize our data on. So that can really make a big difference cost-wise, if you're not familiar with how those things work. I would say just in general, not using the phone as a tool to its full potential. We'll talk about some of the apps that have been really helpful. Kerry Newsome: I agree totally with you. I think that using your phone in Vietnam for some of the most basic things is definitely on the rise. And as you were moving about the country, being able to access your email even on your phone, which does require special setup. Because depending on how you've made your bookings prior to arrival, you may be receiving emails or email notifications to advise you of some changes to those. And that could be anything from your hotel, to your airline, to the tour that you've purchased. It can be all sorts of things. It's crazy just how often you're going to use your phone. And for some people, they're not going to bring their full laptop with them, depending on their length of stay, or they don't have portability devices like that to access. Lots to share in this area. And the more I'm listening to you, I'm going, gosh, you know, battery, having a portable battery, being able to increase the frequency that you can use your phone is so important and the eSIM definitely. I want to just talk about that eSIM and the area of data roaming and switching on and off, because as you said, you can get very quickly caught or trapped into thinking that, oh, I've got the eSIM, and very quickly you're then eating up your data. And that can be fixed very simply by turning the roaming off when you get into a Wi-Fi setup like in your hotel, which is offered to you free. Can you talk to us a little bit more about switching between those two and how we can better manage that? Michelle Chang: Sure. I think the first thing to understand is what does use up a lot of data. And that's mostly things that are having to go back and forth from the internet to get lots and lots of information. So if you think of a single word is just a tiny bit of information, a paragraph is more information, a picture is a thousand words, right? And a video is a thousand pictures. And so that's kind of how data stacks up. So if you think about, you know, if somebody sends you an image on WhatsApp or another messaging service and you are out and about, if you want to view that image through the message, it's probably going to use data unless you have settings that you've changed in your phone that specifically say, don't use this app when I'm on data, only use this app when I'm on Wi-Fi. So you want to be cognizant of when you are downloading or uploading images and especially video. So you don't want to be streaming YouTube unless you have an unlimited data plan or you don't care how much money you're spending on it. So those are some things, you know, video calls also are going to take up a lot of data. Kerry Newsome: Correct. And even in your search, when you're searching Google for something or you're searching Google Maps and then, you know, it's finding you that cafe that you want to go to, but then you're clicking on that image, kind of can go in a rollercoaster way very quickly to chew up that data. Am I right? Michelle Chang: Yes, it can. I have found Google Maps is not quite as fast at chewing up data as I expected. But the other trick is to make sure that you're downloading offline data for the maps and for any other apps that you might be using while you're out and about. Because that way, the data, the information is already living on your phone. And it's not having to grab so much from the internet. So that does save you on your data usage as well, is making sure that you have some offline downloads where appropriate. Kerry Newsome: Got it. All right. So this is probably a good segue into talking about what you recommend as kind of the most essential apps to use. Michelle Chang: So one thing that I like to teach travelers going abroad is to get familiar with just four of the most essential smartphone apps. And they apply to Vietnam especially. So the four I talk about are Google Maps, which we've mentioned, Google Translate, WhatsApp for messaging, and whatever ride share or ride hailing app is common in the region, which in Vietnam we know is Grab, G-R-A-B. And I think if you don't do anything else on your smartphone, if maybe you are kind of overwhelmed by technology and that kind of makes you ignore things, these are the four that I don't think that you should ignore. The more familiar you get with these they will make a bigger difference in being able to travel confidently and solve the problems that come up. They make communication easier and all of that helps with your safety and security when you're not familiar with the place. So the other thing I use is a free currency conversion app all the time when we're in Vietnam because as we know all those zeros can be very confusing to convert in your head. So I can talk a little bit more about Google Maps. Obviously, it's helpful for navigating, but I actually use it just as much for my trip planning and research, finding those hidden gems. So I really use it constantly. And I actually had an older friend, a retiree, who was visiting while we were in Vietnam, and she asked me about it. She's like, it looks like you have this whole system for saving points on your map. I've never done that. And that's kind of what led me to realize it could be helpful to teach some of these different tricks and tools that I've learned over the years. So anyways, unlike TripAdvisor, which has reviews purely from tourists, I really like the reviews on Google Maps because it's more likely to include locals. and it translates their comments into English automatically. So that's helpful. Google Translate, for anyone who's not familiar, this app can translate signs and menus in real time, as well as the audio of live conversations. So for example, we often rent a motorbike when we're in Hoi An, and once we pulled into a parking lot and there was a sign in Vietnamese right above the parking spot, and we're kind of like, hmm, the last thing we want is to get a parking ticket or something, or just be culturally inappropriate. So we pull out the Google Translate app, and we've downloaded Vietnamese offline, so it's not using data. And we can just point our camera of the phone at the sign, and it immediately switches the letters from Vietnamese to English words, and now we know what it says, which ended up not being an issue anyways. We also use it to show people at restaurants because we're not very good with spicy food. So we have on our Google Translate, you know, not spicy, please. Because even though we have learned how to say it in Vietnamese, our pronunciation isn't always understood. So we want to be able to communicate clearly. And we use it a lot to communicate at the market, or even with our Vietnamese friends who speak English, but sometimes they don't know certain vocabulary. So it really helps connect with people. And even though we're using a screen, you wouldn't think technology It might be getting in the way, but it really has been helpful to us. We even had a homestay host, a couple, when we stayed in Ninh Binh. And they were super enthusiastic users of Google Translate. I've actually never seen anyone use it. quite as fiercely, so they used the audio capture side of it and would have whole conversations with us as soon as we arrived. They would speak into it in Vietnamese, say, my name is such and such, what's your name, where are you from, and they would hold it up to us so we could hear the translation and see the translation on their phone. they would point to us to speak back into the phone, which we did in English, and it translated back to Vietnamese, and we could just have a little conversation that way. So pretty special, yeah. Kerry Newsome: And I've used that quite a lot when I am hiring a driver, as the driver will have like about, you know, five or six words that, you know, he has learned parrot fashion in English. But to go anything beyond that, he struggles. And so, you know, there's no way I want to make him feel uncomfortable or, you know, I'm struggling with my Vietnamese. I use the the Google Translate app. And, you know, you can just see their faces beam as in, oh, great, you know, we can converse using this tech tool. And they become more relaxed. And, you know, when you've got a journey, maybe four or five hours in a car, and you've got to stop, you know, for a toilet break, or, you know, you, you know, you need to buy some water, or you've got a lunch, or, or something like that, that you want to, to get maybe a banh mi on the side of the road that you've seen, or, that you want them to stop for. Using Google Translate can be really handy in that situation. I mean, that's obviously more in the remote areas. I think you'll find English is, you know, well-spoken certainly in the tourist hubs and the major cities pretty well, like you can get away with it. But in the outer regions, it's really helpful. Michelle Chang: The other app, so WhatsApp, is a messaging app that I have found is really widely used across the world and including in Vietnam. So if you're not using that, it allows you to send messages, including pictures and videos. You can also do voice calls and video calls. but it uses wi-fi so if you are on a free wi-fi network then your use of it is totally free you don't have to have an international phone number it's going to use your home phone number and that has been really helpful because individuals use it but also businesses so if you are meeting up with a tour guide or trying to see if a restaurant is going to be open, those kinds of things. A lot of times you'll be connecting with them through WhatsApp. Kerry Newsome: I think WhatsApp is your best workaround if you don't want to do the eSIM or you don't want to have to use any of your data or whatever you've bought. If you want to minimize it, I would definitely urge you to use WhatsApp. for your messages, phone calls, all of that, because it is prolific in Vietnam, very well accepted, and even if you need to ring home, you know, if you make sure everybody's on WhatsApp at home that you want to call, It's so easy and it's free if you're on Wi-Fi. In fact, I tell people the only way I'm going to call you is through WhatsApp because I don't want to buy big data and spend too much money on an eSIM. It requires mobile data. So, I use WhatsApp a lot. Michelle Chang: So the last one is rideshare, which in Vietnam, the most common tends to be Grab. It's used throughout a lot of Southeast Asia. So you definitely want to set that up before you get in the country. Make sure that you have your payment method, I guess the word is, payment method set up. You don't want to show up in the airport. Kerry Newsome: On the payment method, What do you advise? Because I have my thoughts on that. I'm just keen to hear what yours are on setting up the payment method in Grab. Michelle Chang: Yes, that's a good question. I've heard good reasons for cash, which is that the drivers usually prefer cash. I tend to do the credit card and I'll tell you why. There have been quite a few scams, especially for new visitors who arrive in Vietnam and are not familiar with all those zeros in the currency. The drivers will sometimes say, you gave me $5,000, when actually you gave them $50,000, unfortunately. So that happened to some friends of ours who were just arriving in Hanoi. So it does help with that. Also, you know, you don't have to make change, you know exactly what your fare is going to be. If you as long as you have a credit card that is not going to have international fees. That's what we use. And Kerry Newsome: That's your go-to? Michelle Chang: Yeah. Tell me your, your, yeah, your take on it. Kerry Newsome: My take on it after many, many years using Grab is to use the cash option. And the reason I do that is because I'm fairly familiar with the fact that cash is king in Vietnam. It does mean that I can tip. the driver, he can see the tip and he can use the tip straight away. So, if the ride is, you know, 50,000 or 100,000 or if it's 85, I might just kind of round it up. And I don't know whether there is a network. Like, I've had this conversation with many people, but I always get a grab really quickly. Like, most people will be saying, oh, it might take 10 to 15 minutes to get a grab. I jump on the app, and obviously, you know, I've been using it a long time. I ask for a drive at the same place, and I'll get a grab in like two seconds flat. Like, they'll be there in quick, smart time. So, I don't know whether there's this little network where they say, oh, if Kerry Newsome comes on and she books it, she's obviously now in Hanoi or Saigon or wherever she is, she pays cash and she slightly tips. So, I don't know. I've got no way I can confirm that, but I feel that for the slight inconvenience that it causes me to make sure I've got the right change. So I always make sure when I book that car or bike, that I actually have as close as possible to the right amount of money, because you're right. Scams can happen when the persons will say, oh, you know, they don't have change. They can't speak a lot of English, a lot of the drivers anyway, as we've previously discussed. So you then have to be, you know, doing this wrangle with Google Translate. So, you know, being a little bit smart, thinking ahead and keeping some change ready to have the right money is the key if you choose the cash option. A lot of people use the credit card, as you say, or travel money card, whatever that works very efficiently. I've just preferred over time to use the cash option. So from both senses, you can decide which you think suits you best. Okay. Uh, on the, on the grab, uh, option two, I think, um, Grab is great for just not only rideshare and bike or car, but it's also good for food. So if you were in a situation where, you know, maybe someone is sick or, you know, someone in your party or your group and you're staying at a homestay or maybe it's bucketing down rain and you don't want to go out or whatever, it does have the option for food. delivery as well. So, it's really well set up. The app is very easy to use. So, as Michelle has said, I strongly urge you to set it up on your phone, have it the way you want it when you arrive. And I think you can feel very confident in using it for, you know, car or or bike. And sometimes the bike option is actually quicker to get you to a particular location because of traffic and all sorts. So if you feel confident with that, they're going to have a helmet for you to get on the bike, to feel safe. They know the roads, you know, very well. You can match your name on their app, on their phone to you. So you know the driver, is for you, you know the vehicle is the one, and you know they have the address that you have put in. So, you know, like Uber in my country and in some other countries around the world, it's a very similar match. Yeah, all power to grab. There are other ones now in Vietnam that a lot of the Vietnamese locals use. I haven't got as much experience with those, but I've been told maybe there's one called B or something like that. But I think for the purpose of us giving you one that we know and trust, grab would be the way to go. Michelle Chang: Yes, definitely. There's the electric vehicles now too that just this year, I believe, have really spread around. I haven't had the chance to use that, but I do like that it's electric vehicles. Kerry Newsome: Yes, definitely. Let's talk, Michelle, about on apps, but maybe expand it a bit more into social media in Vietnam, and maybe a little bit about Facebook. What's your experience with Facebook in Vietnam? I personally think Vietnam has been built on Facebook, but For other countries, it's kind of dying off. What's your experience been with Facebook and using it as you've been getting about Vietnam? Michelle Chang: That's a good question. We do have a few of our Vietnamese friends who are on Facebook a little bit. We also find quite a few of the businesses that, instead of setting up their own website, are using the Facebook page. So that tends to be a good place to go and check, you know, have they updated their page recently or has it been you know, since before the pandemic that they posted and maybe they're not actually open anymore. Or you can message them through Facebook a lot of times if you have a question. So, yeah, that can be a good resource as well. Kerry Newsome: I find Facebook truly the most effective way to reach out or to find or get more information that's up to date of businesses. Not so much people, occasionally people, but more so businesses because the business will put up their opening times. They'll put up any changes in their menu. Sometimes if they're a particular bar, they will put up events that are on. So, if there's, you know, a band playing or, you know, they've got some kind of special festival activity or anything like that. I'll tell you a funny story. I wanted to get a massage one time in Hoi An and it was during Tet. So, you know, during Tet, a lot of businesses during the actual Tet national holiday period, you know, it's a little bit hit and miss on who's open, who's not, as a lot of places operate with skeleton staff. Yeah. So, I wanted this massage and I thought, oh, there's no chance I'm going to get it because, you know, no one will be around doing that. Sure enough, I go to this Facebook page and I'll give a plug for Citrus. which is a lovely massage spa place in Hoi An. And this citrus spa, so I send them a message, they say they're open. And I reach out to the person, she comes back to me in English very quickly to say, yes, she's open and she can fit me in. So then my next problem is, who's gonna be around on Grab? to get me there because, you know, obviously a lot of the drivers are not working because they're with families and things like that. So, I'm thinking, oh, damn, you know, I can get the appointment, but how am I going to get there? So, then I say to the girl, I'm not sure how I can get there. The next thing she comes back and says, that's okay, where are you staying? I'll come and pick you up and drop you back. I'm going, oh my God, I love this country. So, sure enough, she arrives, she's got a second helmet, I get on the back of her bike, we go. So, that's kind of the example of some of the exchanges I've had using Facebook, certainly giving reviews of places they love it. When you do that, that certainly wins you favor. They seem to check it super regularly. So if it is a business that is still operating and it is still wanting patronage, you know, you will find that they will be fairly active on Facebook. So that's kind of my experience on that one. What about apps, Michelle, like, you know, looking at managing the travel that you've booked? So, you know, I'm talking about your airlines or your hotels or things like that. Do you kind of include that in your prep for your smartphone? Michelle Chang: I personally don't tend to get the airline apps for my travel in Southeast Asia. Occasionally I will for domestic travel more often. I've heard a lot of people use the app TripIt when they want to keep their itinerary organized and you can email confirmations to your TripIt address and it will populate the confirmation number and the times and the dates for you. So that can be really handy if you have a lot going. When we stay in Vietnam, we're staying for a long time, so we don't have a highly booked schedule. So I end up just using my own Google Calendar for any appointments or tours that we're scheduling. Okay. Kerry Newsome: What do you use? So, I book a lot of different options but if I'm using like for instance an online travel agent like a booking.com or an Expedia or Something like that, I will often, I will have that app on my phone because not only does it allow me to search for other options if I want to change my plans because I want to keep it fluid, but it'll also have my current booking. So when I walk to the check-in counter inside the hotel, I can present my current booking there for them to refer to. And that seems to be coming a norm for people that are using various online travel agencies like that. But as you say, you've got to be kind of on the move and all the rest of it. But another funny story I want to add to that is that you can go to the hotel. And you can ask the hotel, is there a room available or, you know, what is the rate for the room or whatever. And say they've got the room and it's current, but then you can say, okay, oh, that's 120 US for the night or whatever, that seems quite high. I have actually stepped back into reception, got onto an app, say it's booking.com, say it's Expedia, you know, whatever the one commonly I'm using at the time. And I've looked at the room and most times out of 10, I will get a better rate going through that app. And sometimes the receptionist will even tell me to go to an app and I will get a better rate rather than going to direct. Now, There's a whole lot of stories around why that happens. And I won't go into that now to explain that from an industry point of view, but that's where the app can be extremely handy. And I have booked the app, gone back up to the reception counter and said, here's my booking. And they've gone, oh, great. You know, welcome Kerry Newsom, blah, blah, blah. Crazy, hey? But that is, that is how tech is taking over travel in such a dramatic way that it never did before. So, just to be aware of that, people, that, you know, depending on what you feel comfortable with and which online travel agencies that you use, if they have an app, I'd strongly urge you to set that up on your phone. Can we delve a little bit deeper and you can give us your feedback on, you know, operating a business and working remotely in Vietnam? Michelle Chang: Sure. Well, there is a lot of free Wi-Fi these days throughout Vietnam in cafes, a lot of the businesses have upgraded their Wi-Fi speeds, and there's some really beautiful and fun places. I really enjoy the style and decor in Vietnamese cafes, so that's always a treat. The only thing that bothers me sometimes in those cafes is smoking, which has gotten better in indoor venues there. But a lot of times there's like an open air patio or outdoor seating where smoking is still permitted. So you can't guarantee that it won't be a part of your experience. There are also some great co-working spots, especially in the bigger cities, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Da Nang. Hoi An is a bit smaller, but it has a great little nomad community at Hub Hoi An. I know that you've spoken with Florian, the the owner there now, and it overlooks the rice fields. It's a really beautiful setting. We personally do tend to do a lot of our work from wherever we're staying, whether it's a homestay or an apartment rental that's furnished. We just double check with the owner about the Wi-Fi speeds before we book. We make sure that they have a desk or some kind of workspace. But these days, the Wi-Fi in Vietnam has been pretty good most of the time. It's actually better than a lot of places in Europe. I think they just are able to or have been upgrading their infrastructure, at least compared to when we started in 2015-2016. It was decent back then and the speeds have gotten even faster. So it really is a great remote work destination, in my opinion. Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. And I think there is definitely a growing interest in the digital nomad space. And, you know, nomads can be all ages. So, if you're wanting to travel to Vietnam and you want to take your business with you, or you maybe want to extend your stay after your holiday and continue to work on, You can really feel confident to be able to do that. Michelle's right, you know, the speed of the internet is important. Maybe if I was to offer a level of caution, it would be around the security of free Wi-Fi. Maybe that's something to be mindful of in, you know, just transferring money or, you know, doing things like that, just to be a little bit careful on that note. And as Michelle and I were talking earlier that there is that two ways to do it. One, you can do it from, you know, your place of stay, the hotel or whatever doesn't seem to have any, you know, major limitations in my experience and usually pretty good. Or if you feel like you want to, you know, meet some people and become you know, a bit part of a community of travelers and that, you know, that hub Hoi An kind of set up or, you know, there's other ones like we work and that in Saigon now, I think. There's a lot more of that happening around the place. You've only just got to search that. But that is a great way to meet other travelers, get tips and hints on how to be more effective in those hubs and really be part of that community. So, there's definitely those two options. And if you do it in a cafe, they don't even feel like you can sit on a couple of cups of coffee for hours. And people do that. The smoking is interesting. That's, I guess, are they smoking or vaping, Michelle? Michelle Chang: Well, maybe both, but definitely smoking. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, that would put me off. But in the ones that I've been at so far, I've managed to avoid that, thankfully. But yeah, I've been able to set up and just stay there for ages and they're very friendly and they don't feel the need to push you on at all. summarizing, is there anything else that like, this is your thing, you know, intentional travelers, this is what you do in setting people up and training people up with tutorials to get smartphone ready, which I'll make sure everyone, I put the link to Michelle's website so you can access that. Is there anything I haven't asked you? Is anything we haven't covered that we should for everyone. Anything you can think of that you'd like to add just in wrapping up? Michelle Chang: I would just add to remember that you don't need to be a computer whiz or an expert phone guru, but do invest in yourself a little bit on this topic because smartphone skills can really pay off on all of your future trips. It's going to help you be able to answer those unanticipated questions and deal with bumps in the road, which inevitably happen when you're traveling and especially when you're in an unfamiliar place. So it can really help you feel more confident, keep you safe. help you find hidden gems, make sure that you're not missing out on something better, just by having this next level of skill, just learning the next step. And a lot of times, you know, you might already be using Google Maps, you might already be using a messaging service, if not WhatsApp. And so you have that foundation, even if you don't feel tech savvy yet. And you're just going to be taking those skills to the next level. And that's going to make a huge difference for your travel. Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. And if I just want to finish up is to make sure you have the right plugs. It is a two-prong setup for plugs. Sometimes the sockets can be a bit dodgy as in you put the plug in and it doesn't like sit or doesn't kind of grab properly. And that's because those sockets are sometimes a little bit old depending on the place you're staying. Sometimes just one will do it. I think it's about 220 volt it runs on. So sometimes some of the devices that you plug in don't actually power up as fast as they would in your own home country. So just to be aware of that. Last time I took not only a plug, but I then took a small cube set up which had about four sockets to it, so it meant I could put my phone, my laptop, my hair dryer, whatever else I But I wanted to use using just the one socket because a hotel doesn't have 100 sockets for you to use in the first place. So it depends how many devices you've got going. But just to be making sure that you do have the right plugs and there's plenty of websites, et cetera, that you can find that information. Kerry Newsome : Thank you for coming on the show. Michelle Chang: My pleasure. If you would like to know more about Michelle’s tutorials and online programs you can connect directly with her here - https://intentionaltravelers.com/ For a great experience with a buddy to help you enjoy local areas, business situations, translations and possibly medical appointments, why not book a Travel Buddy through https://www.tubudd.com/ Use the Promo code KERRYVN5 on the payment page in the booking TUBUDD App to receive 5% discount on hourly rate of services.

2680acaa-0464-444a-81fb-2efe1910fc5aVietnam is the ideal place for social enterprise travel What About Vietnam - 2-14 Gain a deeper love of travel through North Vietnam through Social Enterprises Emily Lush Podcast - Talking about North Vietnam and Social Enterprise Kerry Newsome : So today I'm lucky enough to be talking to Emily Lush . Now, where is Emily going to take us? She's going to take us on a different kind of adventure. We will get to go to some beautiful places, meet and hear about some very interesting people, communities, and minority groups. And she's going to take us into an area that they call Social Enterprise. And what does that mean? What does that bring to an experience in Vietnam? Please say hello to Emily Lush. Emily Lush: Thank you, Kerry. I'm very happy to be here. Kerry Newsome : I'm delighted to have you on the program now. For the uninitiated, Tell us what Social Enterprise is all about and what it means to you? Emily Lush: Right? So Social Enterprise. It's sometimes easier to start by saying what it's not. So a Social Enterprise is not a charity. It's not volunteering. It's a business much like any other business. It differs in the way that it's more holistic model, so it's often underpinned by a strong social cause or message. There's often an environmental aspect to the business, so sustainability is really important. But most importantly, it's about community and society and driving change on a specific issue or empowering a specific group of people through business activities or services or products. It could be led by an individual or by a non government organization. They often set up Social Enterprises to help people. and yeah, it's really about bringing the whole community, to share in the success of a business. So sometimes you'll see profits reinvested back into a community fund or something like that. Everyone can benefit from this. It is really, really important in Vietnam, a country where, you know, they've made absolutely monumental progress on a whole lot of issues in the last couple of decades. But there's still some things below the surface. , women's rights, ethnic minority rights. Human trafficking is still a big problem in Vietnam, so you'll often see Social Enterprises that target these issues in really innovative ways. , this is gonna be really important. It has been really important. It's gonna be even more important in a post covid world, especially when travelers they're looking for deeper ways. Thus a chance to give back and engage with communities when we do get to travel again. So Vietnam has been really progressive in terms of Social Enterprise. It's been written into their laws. Since 2014, things have been created, like a really good environment for Social Enterprise to flourish. It's given birth to a whole range of different Social Enterprises. So in tourism you'll see restaurants, cafe souvenir shops, homestays, tour companies, and a whole range of projects that are working under this Social Enterprise model. , and I want to give you a few examples because I think it's easier sometimes to sort of understand how it works when you have something concrete to look at. So a couple of my favorites and I know you're familiar with a couple of these.. So KOTO , which is a training restaurant, , in Hanoi and Saigon. They have a couple of different branches across the country, and they are a restaurant and a cooking school, but they work with disadvantaged youth. , people who have come from, you know, terrible circumstances often, and they train them. They give them the tools that they need to work in the restaurant and to go on and start their own projects later in life. Another one I really like. is called Zo Paper . So as you say, your paper. So it's run by, ah, young woman in Hanoi, and her mission is to revitalize this'll dying art of handmade paper on bits only done in specific villages in the north. So she set up this beautiful little shop. , I hope it's still operating. , but her project is ongoing, and she does workshops and tours and has a beautiful website as well, where you can buy gift cards, earrings, all kinds of things made from this paper. And because she sources the paper from these sort of small villages, she's helping keep that industry alive and also give economic opportunities to these artisans who otherwise, , don't really have a place to sell to sell their stuff. So there's a couple of examples from Hanoi. But you can find Social Enterprises all over Vietnam in Hoi An and Danang there's a lot of cafes. So you have, like Reaching Out Teahouse life, and 9Grains Bakery , those kind of operations and then in the north outside of Hanoi, you have, like SAPA and those beautiful areas where Social Enterprises are really, you know, working with that environment and taking people to remote areas, um, as part of their as part of the operation. So there's so much to find in Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: And this subject is obviously something close to your heart, which you kind of can hear in your voice.I mean, what is it about Social Enterprise that drives you? Emily Lush: Maybe I'm so interested in culture, in material culture especially so, like costume and textiles and all these beautiful things that you find in, , in communities. And I think Social Enterprise is a really nice gateway to experience those things on a deeper level. I always, you know, love the experience of going into a small community, um, in a respectful way and being able to encounter those things sort of at the source. And I think Social Enterprise, because of the way it's structured, it gives travelers a lot of opportunities. to have those kind of deep experiences and to speak and learn from people firsthand, it’s just amazing. It's so enriching for a travel experience. Kerry Newsome: And I think for a traveler who wants, kind of a more authentic experience. Ah, little bit more immersive, not so rehearsed. And for want of a better description “tourism curated”. I think you're right. I think it does offer that opportunity. But out of all the places in the world that you could pursue this passion, What was it about Vietnam that inspired you to visit. Emily Lush : I love Southeast Asia. I I traveled there a couple of years ago, and I absolutely fell in love with the textiles, especially. I think, you know, I had spent time in the region previously, and I was really drawn to Vietnam just because of the sort of contrast. It's, you know, it's part of the region, but it's a little bit different. , especially in the North. I was really interested in learning more about the remote communities, which, you know Vietnam is kind of the place to do that. So that's what attracted me to find Vietnam. I just feel very comfortable there. I find it an easy place, to travel and to live, which is what I ultimately ended up doing. So those things combined with a beautiful heritage, but also that very forward thinking approach to tourism, which I really found, you know, perfect. To stay there long term and to really, you know, go deeper into some of these places and Social Enterprises was very personally rewarding. Kerry Newsome: And we're probably going to talk on another session about the difference between actually visiting a place. And as you said, um, you were able to visit there for a month or so, but then decided to come back and live there for a year, which I guess offered you the opportunity to do smaller trips and things basing yourself in Hanoi. So you have to tell us now some of the places in Vietnam that Social Enterprise took you too. I'm sure there's some stories to tell, , in those regions, whenever I do talk to people that venture out, you know, when they get off the tourist laid down track, when they venture into, as you say, those those those very local communities and minority groups, I just love to hear some of the places that you've been to, and I'm sure my audience would as well. Emily Lush : Yeah, I was very lucky getting to travel so much around the North, especially so. But I'll start by saying that I think giving or pursuing Social Enterprise. Uh, you know, it gave me a different perspective on Hanoi as well. So Hanoi is a very big, sometimes an anonymous city and seeking out these places, I made some incredible relationships and got to experience um, really, really fantastic social projects that are happening in Hanoi. So I think it could be enriching even if you're just in the city as well. But outside of the city, I I had some incredible travel experiences. So there are two places in particular that stand out, and I visited both these places with Social Enterprise groups. So the first one is HaGingi, that's spelt H a G i N G. So it's the area in Vietnam east of Sapa. But it's still along the border with China, and this is sometimes called a Sapa alternative or the new South because it's, , it's fairly remote. It's not very touristy at the moment. It was the last part of Vietnam to sort of open up to tourists. It takes a long time to get there, which is one of the things one of the trade offs and Kerry Newsome : it's got. I think it features in a lot in photos. You know when when they show northern Vietnam, all those windy, bendy roads and switchbacks, etcetera, that’s the region you are talking about, right? Emily Lush: Yes, that's thet region. Exactly. So one thing to do in HaGing, Is jump on a motorbike and go hustling around those roads very slowly, and with great caution. But look, I've lived in Southeast Asia for a long time and never driven a motorbike. So it's not my thing, and I was traveling with my dad, so we had a different experience and this is part of the reason we went with the Social Enterprise because they do tours by car. So we were able to go up there, with a private driver and a guide who is very embedded in the community and works with a lot of people up there. And it was just a terrific experience and we had that adventure, but, you know, from the safety of our comfort zone. so it was kind of ah, blend of off those two things. Kerry Newsome: I think you're right. I think it's up to the individual how they want to experience that region in particular. There's certainly the people who do it on bikes and just rave about it. I'd probably be a little bit more like you, Emily. I'd probably be doing it from the comfort of a car. Those windy roads and bends. However, I could tell you on a on a bus, etcetera, you know, can be, um, quite difficult for people who suffer with car sickness, because it is out there!!! isn't it? It's quite untouched, which is a marvel in itself, I think. And that's what Vietnam offers that people don’t know. I think in the first sense people think trillions and trillions of motorbikes. But it does have ah lot of wide open, beautiful spaces, and I think post Covid It's going to draw those travelers, and I'm hoping that they will follow your lead a little bit in the Social Enterprise space because I think from a recovery perspective, that's what Vietnam is going to need. And I think they do it better than, a lot of countries. For some reason, they just have a great community spirit, which is why they dealt with Covid better than many other countries because they were concerned about their own community. So anyway, that's one of your favorites, or that's a standout. Tell us, tell us more. Emily Lush: Another one I wanted to mention is a place called Da Bac, Đà Bắc is a rural district of Hòa Bình Province in the Northwest region of Vietnam and it kind of borders on Hanoi.. So it's just about three hours west of the capital via, another very bumpy sort of treacherous road. But this part of Vietnam is pretty, you know, it's not known among tourists at all. It's pretty remote again, while still being, you know Ah, a lot closer to Hanoi. So here in Da Bac there is a project run by the NGO called Action on Poverty , who has a strong presence in Australia as well. I went over there to check out their homestays. They work with a network of villages, around a reservoir. Really beautiful environment, and they've worked with a range of families to set up homestays in these beautiful Traditional wooden homes. They do meals, you know, they've had, really practical training and catering to tourist's needs so they can do anything you need. Vegetarian, vegan, whatever. Beautiful homestays, really comfortable places. And then just this pristine environment. Rice fields for days. You know, the classic Vietnam that you sort of conjure up when you think about traveling in the north Just a really beautiful part of the country. And one thing that I did there that is very memorable and sort of sticks out with a traditional red dao herbal bath. So you can do this in other places but well, but they offer them in in Da Bac, and you basically sit in a wooden like barrel that is a traditional bath, and they fill it up with water and these medicinal herbs that they've collected from around the village on the water gets heated up with this special wood, um and you sit in the bath and soak. And in this particular room at a homestay where I was. It was just offered a window overlooking the rice fields, and you just sit there and kind of relax. It was it was beautiful. Kerry Newsome : Hmm. I did something a little bit similar in Mau Chau. And you're right. It's the richness of that wooden bath. And then just the simplicity of the view, you know, it’s just pure nature. Yeah, it is quite a memorable, beautiful healing experience. Definitely. Okay. So if you're going to talk to people about this and I know you, you've done a great job with your blog,, and I do love your blog by the way. Uh, tell us. You know, what would you advise? Did you learn any kind of tips along the way that you'd say, Hey, make sure you do this or whatever, Maybe maybe share some of those? I'm sure there are some ones that could save people, some issues. Let's say!! Emily Lush: I think it's important to mention, you know, we've talked about a few times that this is a great way to sort of get off the beaten track. And I think it's important to know that with that there is, ah, more raw element to some of these experiences. So there is a language barrier, that you have to work a little bit harder to overcome. It's nothing that you can't overcome. Like I. I did this for a year, basically traveling all around and, you know, I did learn a bit of Vietnamese, but you know, I have no problem at the end of the day, but they're all those things that you have to keep in mind and just, you know, be realistic about what you're going into. Like you know, it is going to be a long time in the car if you're going to a more remote place. and stay in a homestay might not be. You know, it's not gonna be a boutique hotel standard, so as long as you're prepared for that, you can enjoy it for what it is. I think that's important to keep in mind. , but otherwise, you know you'll find especially in Vietnam one thing that struck me was how professional these Social Enterprises are. They really do their research. They really do their, you know, European class training, European standard training, um, to get people up to a good level off service, which is really, really important for a sustainable project. So while you do have to temper your expectations a little bit during its not, I think a lot of people get intimidated, especially at the idea of a home stay. But you'll find the standards are pretty good, especially in the North. Kerry Newsome: And, you know, we talk about homestays and it's a good subject to bring up because, they are a real wild card now, the homestay because in some places they're like an Airbnb, or you know, they're like in Australia what we know as a Bed and breakfast place. They're really quite modern. And they have kind of come up a few levels, but in the areas that you're talking about, you use the word” raw” I think raw is a very good word for it. They don’t always include a hot shower or a comfortable bed, and sometimes that shower is outside and the meals definitely would not be catering to all tastes, etc. You're not going to get a menu choice, etcetera. You're going to get what the family’s eating that day or that night. So you're right, setting people up so that they understand what to expect, I think, can I avoid disappointment for the people who go there that go or you know, that that's to rule for May on, then for other people who have gone to other places and not had that experience on are disappointed and going away with the thought that are, you know, to get unauthentic experience. That's all rubbish. so yeah just trying to find and navigate that that path I think is important. And I'm glad you mentioned it because I get a lot of people who say You know what's a homestay? And you know it's not an easy question to answer in one sentence because of that diversification of homestays we are just taking about. I think in in Hoi An alone they stopped giving out licenses because there was like 340 homestays in addition to hotels. So yeah, it's a bit crazy. Anything else? Emily Lush: It is becoming quite trendy. There will be places that sort of use that title that might not give that sort of experience. So again a Social Enterprise that is like underpinned by a group code of ethics and you know they're vetted their reviewed, they have a name for themselves that could be a good way to find those more quote-unquote authentic places. And you know, often they are the more remote rural places where you're gonna find things a bit more “out there”. So that's another way that Social Enterprise could be really helpful to to seek those out specifically because they do the research, they do the legwork. They are very, good about offering high quality and meeting your expectations. Kerry Newsome: The other thing I want to touch on,which comes up around Social Enterprise in my experience is price or cost. There's still that elusion that everything in Vietnam is cheap, cheap. You know it, Copy, Copy, Copy and cheap, Cheap. And like we both know that yes, sure, that exists. But when you go to Social Enterprises and you're buying something that's handmade or whatever, you are often going to be paying quite a high price. And, you know, I've seen some tourists really push back on that.. They go, you know, I wouldn't be expecting to pay that. And yet, if anything was handmade in their own country, they definitely would be paying that. So that's kind of a new and interesting dynamic, too, don't you think in this in this space? Emily Lush: Absolutely. I think a lot of travelers get into the mindset like you say that everything will be cheap as chips. And you can find that. But if you're wanting to give back, I suppose, or support a business that kind of goes a bit further. You often times do need to pay more, and I think there's a responsibility on the brand or the company to justify that, to tell the story behind the product to explain where that money is going, and I think that makes the decision for travel easier if you can see or, you know, that 10% of what I'm paying. You know, it might be 20% more than this other shop, but 10% is gonna go into the community fund. And maybe it's aiming to build a library for this small village so that Children can learn there own language. I think that makes the decision a bit easier. And I think most travelers who go to Vietnam, or Southeast Asia, are interested in leaving something good and meaningful behind when they leave. A lot of people, you know, have a great experience in Vietnam and they feel very connected to the people. To the culture there. And it's a really nice opportunity to be able to give something back. Often times, yeah, you will be paying a bit more, but I mean, obviously I think it's more than worth it. And these are the experiences that you know after a year in Vietnam, these are the things I remember most vividly and really look back on most fondly, and also the items that I've purchased that I hold on to, and you know, there they because I maybe because I paid a bit more it made it even more precious to me, because I know the story of who made it, where it came from, what it's made from, all those layers. I think just to contribute to something worthwhile is good. It's a personal decision at the end of the day, but I think it's more than worth it. Kerry Newsome: And, you know, I can relate to that very well because let's face it you know, one 5 star hotel looks pretty much the same as another. But if you are going to a country like Vietnam and you do want to feel like, you've actually been to Vietnam, like you've experienced something off the culture, the history. I mean, it's got such a huge history. You know, some people still think of Vietnam as the Vietnam War. I can remember very early on on one of my visits, one of the tour guides said, You know, Vietnam is a country not a war. I went, Whoa, I'm going to take that away with me. So I mean, Social Enterprise in Vietnam is something that is hard to explain and get on people's radar. As a collective from my experience, you really have to kind of, dig away to find, as you say, brands, etcetera. So I'm delighted that you can talk about it on your Wander_Lush Blog I'm gonna make sure I put that link in the episode notes so people can find out about that. Is there anything else you'd like to add to this episode that we can share and to give travelers in the future coming to Vietnam some further guidance. Emily Lush : So, yeah, there are a couple of resources on my website. There's another website called grassroots volunteering , which has a bit of a directory, as well and then one more is called CBT Vietnam . They work in SAPA and they're sort of like a directory of homestays that you can, look up, sort of find better term stays in that part of Vietnam, but yeah, I just want to end by saying that I liked Vietnam. You know, it has so much to offer as a country, but the greatest asset is the people. Absolutely. Especially the ethnic diversity. In some of these areas we've spoken about, I think Social Enterprise is just the perfect way to travel and is a gateway into deeper experiences in those areas. And to make sure that in these places tourism develops is done in a sustainable way and that people benefit, and they share in the benefits of tourism as it as it continues to develop at a roaring pace in some parts of Vietnam. So, yeah, I just I strongly recommend seeking out these places. You know, it is getting easier. Like you say, it's an ecosystem. Once you sort of find one, you can ask, the owner. Everyone is working together. which is another really nice thing about it. It's a very supportive environment for business owners. So, yeah, once you get in there, you can find pretty much anything from motor bikes, to haircuts and massages that have, ah, social edge to their business and just a nice alternative. If that's something that you want to pursue. Kerry Newsome: it's definitely the good feel way, isn't it to travel through Vietnam. Thank you so much, Emily. I'm going to leave you now because that to me just sums it up. And I just thank you for your time and for your information, and I hope to talk to you soon. Emily Lush: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

ba8c349b-ceb1-4781-b785-c42cb80e29d5These episodes remind me why I started this journey What About Vietnam - Series 3 - 10 Top 5 Vietnam Travel Podcasts 2021 [00:00:36] Kerry Newsome: Xin chào . Welcome to What About Vietnam . In today's episode, we're going to explore the Top 5 episodes in the What About Vietnam series. I've been recording these episodes since May 2020. As you can imagine, with the news that is coming out at the moment about Vietnam, there's a lot going on. I'm certainly doing my best to try and keep everyone updated through my social pages, the website, and obviously, with my guests as we go through the program. These top 5 obviously resonated with you. I thought I would bring some of the highlights of those episodes out. We would play them again for you. Just so that you can keep inspired to travel to Vietnam even though in your trip planning process, maybe at this stage we can't put in a date. Vietnam is doing its best to overcome the COVID Delta spread. Ho Chi Minh City is certainly experiencing some great hardships. Across the country as a whole, the death toll is quite in epic proportions. I have absolute faith in the country. I know that they will be doing everything they can to get on top of it. I am certainly keeping abreast of news as it is coming forth. There's a lot in place, sandboxes in Phu Quoc. All sorts of things are in development in regard to infrastructure and changes in Vietnam. We're going to be exploring those with future guests as they come on. For today, we're going to revisit the top 5. I'm delighted to introduce the number one episode, which just happens to be the very first episode I recorded back in May 2020. It was the beginning of the story of the What About Vietnam series. It was my entry point, an open door for you to have a look at Vietnam and consider it as a destination to travel in the future. Because I concentrated a lot on the key areas of what I fell in love with about Vietnam, being its food, its people, its culture, its cities, its scenery, but in particular, its food. Let's jump in and explore some of the foodie highlights in Vietnam to get you inspired again to travel to Vietnam. [music] No 1 – Top 5 Vietnam Travel Podcasts [00:03:29] Kerry Newsome: I've always believed that one way to know a country is to immerse yourself in its food. If your palate and your digestive system allow it, try and be open to exploration. Check out the local markets. While the smells and views of food, vagrantly sitting out on the benches may be overwhelming at first. Try and put your, when in Rome, do as the Romans do, hat and try some of the traditional dishes. A little tip here for your tummy. It is going to get hit with some flavors. I do suggest to my travelers to maybe look at taking a probiotic before leaving maybe for a few days ahead. I know I do. It really helps get our tummies to be used to the different flavors that are going to experience. Definitely, do take some anti-diarrhea medication. I hate to bring that up right in this. I'd be remiss if I didn't. I want to cover the five main dishes that is Vietnam renowned for. That would be bánh mì. [chuckles] I laugh when I think about bánh mì because everybody knows, it's my first go- to thing. I love it. The baguettes are absolutely delicious, light, and not so full of that thickening bread that we all hate. They sometimes put butter or mayonnaise as the base. Then, they'll add a pâté and slices of the pork roll. Then, they'll put sometimes the pork meat. You can have them with chicken, or you can have them with beef. Then, they'll add basil, mint, spring onions, and chili if you like. If you're like me, you're going to have the-- Yes, I'll have it all. Thanks. Because it's just a bite to behold. Phở is pretty well known. It is a beautiful broth soup. It's all in the broth. The aniseed flavors, the beautiful mint, and basil with a little bit of sugar. It's just so delicious. Of course, you can have that in beef, chicken, or pork. Bánh xèo is a pancake. It's my number three go-to. It's a delicious breakfast option. It's usually very crunchy. It's got spring onions. Sometimes they put prawns in it. You fold it over. Amongst it, you're going to put the mint and the basil and the extra bits of salad into it to add to the flavors. Definitely, my go-to for breakfast. Cao lầu are familiar to people who visit Hoi An. It is a very flavorsome noodle dish. It's got cute, crunchy little bits of pork on the top. Oh look, there are lots of stories that it's made from the [unintelligible 00:06:26] waters. I don't know how true that is, maybe in the past. Certainly, the broth is what makes it. It's a tasty lunch option and very common in Hoi An. Bún chả is a traditional Vietnamese pork dish. It's got pork patties that are squished up. It also has caramelized pork belly slices. It's served in a broth alongside rice noodles, fresh vegetables, and herbs. You're really going to love the noodles in Vietnam. They are so different from the noodles that we know. I will tell you that there is definitely a difference in flavors and cooking between the north and the south. Even their spring rolls are different. Distinct to some regions will be dishes like white roast dumplings, famous in Hoi An as is the cao lầu . As I said, it's a very simple noodle dish. Try to find it in Ho Chi Minh City or Hanoi. You're going to find that very difficult. As a rule of thumb, okay, with very blurred lines, the north does tend to be more meaty. They have a cooler climate that lasts longer. In the south and in the center, you're going to find sweeter and certainly a concentration more on seafood. A word of warning, if you think your kids are starting to get a bit hyper, and you don't know why, mind the sugar as you will find they put sugar in almost everything. I found that out from a cooking class. Even fruit juices, pineapple, watermelon, etc. You can say no to sugar, which I do. Obviously, beach locations like Nha Trang, Danang, Hoi An, Ha Long Bay, and the Mekong Delta are rich in seafood, which they regularly sell the day's catch to local restaurants. They will offer them in these buckets out the front, yes, these buckets. They're displayed in the front of the restaurants. You can then pick what you want. They'll weigh them. Then, they will pretty much cook them the way that you want to. It's cheap. It's cheerful. It's delicious. You can't beat the freshness. No, I cannot speak about Vietnam without talking about the little red chairs. The little red chairs are quite famous. You'll see them as standard seating in very local places that are frequented by the locals. They're also part of what I call the pop-up restaurant. You can be walking along a street maybe in Hoi An. All of a sudden, the chairs come out. People will start grilling tasty sticks of pork or skewered prawns, etc. Simply, very quickly, you can grab a chair. You can grab one of those sticks and sit down and make an afternoon of having some delicious snacks. It's definitely the aromas and the relaxed state of being that draws you in. There's no fuss, no parking to organize, no booking to be made yet. In the same street that you're going to have the street food, you can walk further down. You'll see lovely restaurants side by side touting their daily specials. Like any country, Vietnam has morphed into a multicultural society. Amongst the craziness is some amazing chefs are merging with new restaurants and bringing their culture to the table in Australian, Japanese, Korean barbecue, and Asian fusion. I can honestly say I don't think I've had a bad meal in Vietnam. For the most, I am with people that know what I like. I still do food tours. I still do cooking lessons because you never stop learning about Vietnam. It's just one of those countries. That's the delicious part about it. [music] No 2 – Top 5 Vietnam Travel Podcasts [00:10:22] Kerry Newsome: I can totally understand why S2-09 discover Phong Nha and the largest cave on the planet featured as the second most popular episode in the series. Phong Nha caves is a fascinating area that's really been developing since about 2014. We're talking with Ben Mitchell. He's a local. He runs his own farmstay there, Phong Nha Farmstay. He's really been part of that region. It's developing. It certainly is getting plenty of media attention. I think will be extremely popular post-COVID. He breaks down the cave system into three categories. I think that was really advantageous for people deciding whether or not it was going to be at their level and that they could go there and enjoy it because of the national park, because you can go bike riding. You can even surf there believe it or not. There's a really good town community scene, where they've got local restaurants and that, Ben tells me. It's just an all-round really great episode. I've grabbed a couple of highlights out of it to feature in this episode. I hope you're going to enjoy them. Let's have a chat with Ben. [music] [00:11:56] Kerry Newsome: Tell us about the caves that you'd suggest would be meeting the average person's ability to explore, to spend time in, and really enjoy their stay there. What caves would you suggest? [00:12:11] Ben Mitchell: Well, the caves could be divided into three categories if you like. One would be the Show caves, the Paradise cave, the Dark cave, the Phong Nha cave, the Tiên Sơn cave. These caves are set up to accept mass tourism. Buses can pull up in car parks. They're set up with infrastructure that can move people either by boat or zip line or up and down staircases and walkways into and out of the caves. That would be one category. Another category would be the more adventure caves that are for doing day trips to and maybe overnight trips to. They would be what I would consider great for tourists to go and have a really adventurous experience of trekking in the jungle and visiting a cave, as I say, maybe for a day trip and then coming back and having a swim in a pool and a gin and tonic, watching the sunset from there, from a bar somewhere around Phong Nha. Maybe they do an overnight trip where they camp in the cave. They have cooked dinner by the local jungle man. The third category that I would suggest would be the multi-night caves. They can go into the two-lung system for many, many nights of camping and trekking and adventure for the Hang Sơn Đoòng cave, which is a four-day trip at the moment. You're actually trekking to a different location every night in either, well, Hang Sơn Đoòng , in the same cave. On some of the other trips, you'd be going to different caves and different campsites every day. They would be the more adventurous ones that I would consider would be not probably for everyone, but definitely for people who want to do something that's going to be outside the box. There are 15 trips per month and 10 people can go per trip. You're looking at about 150 people a month going through from January till September, excluding Tet. They'll close down for a little while over Tet in February. [00:14:53] Kerry Newsome: Yes. It's interesting. I really appreciate you breaking up the caves into categories as in that one category being the Show caves. They're the ones where I see all the, as you say, bulk tourists cramming themselves into buses and vehicles, etc. Flooding those caves. Then, you've got the adventurous other day or not. Then, you're going to get people that are going to spend two or three days in Phong Nha. Then, you've got the really experienced trekker, who's going to take on that quite strenuous caving through Sơn Đoòng as you say, etc. Because that's not just for your average bear. Let's face it. I don't know about you, but I certainly know about me. That would be beyond my-- [laughs] [00:15:54] Ben Mitchell: I'm not sure. I reckon [crosstalk] myself. [00:15:58] Kerry Newsome: Yes. No, no, no. My husband-- [00:16:01] Ben Mitchell: It's mainly for walking. If you can walk a few kilometers a day, you'd be right to do the world's biggest cave. When you walk through it, it feels like you're in Notre-Dame Cathedral but you're a lego man. Very good, yes. [00:16:17] Kerry Newsome: Yes. Wow. God. [00:16:18] Ben Mitchell: Yes, my mother's done it. I've done it. I have a lot of different people come through. Long as you keep yourself physically moving for a few days, you can do it. There's a little bit of rope work in that. Where people don't have the experience to do it, the company Oxalis has its staff who are very experienced. They're not just experienced in what they do, but they're also experienced in getting people who are not experienced in what they do through the cave. [music] No 3 – Top 5 Vietnam Travel Podcasts [00:17:07] Kerry Newsome: Switching now from Phong Nha, we now have a look at Hoi An. We couldn't have done Hoi An without my guest Sharon Sweeney as she gave us the episode talking about the top 10 things to do. It was a fantastic episode because she'd been a local there for 12 years. She and her partner run a business called Hoi An Now, which you can see at hoiannow.com. She knows the area so well, and her descriptions, and just the way she can paint that city so that you could close your eyes and imagine yourself there. I am not surprised at all that it's rated as the number three in the top 5. I think you're going to see in the highlights that I have brought out just to feature in this episode. Let's say hello to Sharon again as she talks to us about Hoi An and the top 10 things to do. [music] [00:18:21] Sharon Sweeney: I've never seen any place like Hoi An Old Town in all my travels. Basically, it's a heritage-listed small town that used to has-- It's absolutely steeped in history. It's like a living museum if you like. During the 1500s, it was the epicenter for merchants who were going along the silk road. You had all these amazing times, all these merchants from different parts of the world like Japan, China, Europe, France, just everywhere. The architecture of the Hoi An Old Town is reflecting all that melting pot of people. During the day, it's just incredible because they've just maintained it so beautifully. They've got buttercup yellow buildings interspersed with pastel blue, sky blue, baby blue paintwork as well. It's just incredible. It's just so well preserved. Then, at night, it's like Disneyland because Hoi An is known as the Lantern town, and for good reason – out of every shopfront, there are numerous lanterns. There are lanterns along the street. There are lanterns over passing the street. My favorite time in Hoi An Old Town is where it's twilight. That magical color, that twilight becomes-- it's like pink and soft purple and orange and has these gorgeous sunsets. Anyway, and then the lights, the lanterns start coming on. Oh my God. It's like this magical Disneyland experience. [chuckles] Then, you've got this Thu Bồn river that just floats, that just goes all the way through it. They have little traditions. One that is very close to my heart because I've got a lot of wishes in me is-- [laughter] [00:20:51] Kerry Newsome: Let's say-- [00:20:52] Sharon Sweeney: I'm on that. [00:20:53] Kerry Newsome: [chuckles]You can’t forget those wishes. [00:20:55] Sharon Sweeney: Yes. You can take a little trip on these sampan boats. You set these little wish candles. You make a wish. You put them in a little cup if you like, a little paper cup. You light your wish candle. You watch it bobbing away in the water and hope your wish will come true. Everybody should see Hoi An Old Town just once in their life. [sound cut] The spas massages and spa treatments, come on. [laughter] [00:21:34] Kerry Newsome: Oh yes. What a hard job. You had to take so seriously [00:21:38] Sharon Sweeney: You need… [00:21:40] Kerry Newsome: -to check those out. [00:21:40] Sharon Sweeney: You'll be [unintelligible 00:21:40] . It means going back to the same place. It means actually going to every place in Hoi An just to see what they're like. I do, so I know, I know. I'm a champion. I do it regularly. [chuckles] Yes, well, look at the prices. You'd be mad not to. I don't think anyone should go and have a one-hour massage when you can have a five-hour massage. [chuckles] I reckon you should just book yourself in for the entire trip because I would. [laughter] Oh, look on the map seriously. You've got the high-end, very high-class hotels offering massages. Now, they cost a fortune. I've sent writers, reviewers to the top, really expensive hotels. It's very hit-and-miss. One would surprise you. I won't name it. It's one of the best hotels in Vietnam and the spa treatment was very hit-and-miss. Again, no seriously, we do put very much a recommendation of the ones you should go to. Whilst you can get fabulous ones on the street corners, you can because massage is an innate thing. It's not often something you can train for a good masseur. The ones I highly recommend are the day spas. There you've got train masters. They're cheap. The premises are clean. They're really, really tasteful. The decor is tasteful. You've got the full Western spa with the wafting music. The smells actually-- Oh, oh. [chuckles] Yes. Oh. [00:23:30] Kerry Newsome: You're sending me back there in a heartbeat seriously. That is one of the things as far as your trip planning is concerned. I would highly recommend it to people to include. I think people always think they've got to be doing all the time. I think sometimes there is some pleasure and enjoyment in a holiday when you're just able to access things like massage and be able to just chill out but not thinking, "This is costing me a fortune." [00:24:06] Sharon Sweeney: Highest recommendations. It's in our top 10 on the website. It's Marble Mountains. It's set between Danang and Hoi An, about 20 minutes from Hoi An. During the second to 15th centuries, it was used by the Chăm. It's during the Chăm period. It was used by the people there as a sacred site of worship. It's really got one of those energies. It's amazing. There are five mountains. Each one represents an element. You've got fire, water, metal, wood, and earth. It's just amazing. There are pagodas there, which are like temples and shrines. You've got caves, massive caves that you can go down into. There are tunnels or crawling [crosstalk] in very small areas. [00:25:05] Kerry Newsome: I've seen some funny pictures where people are getting their [crosstalk] bums through. [laughs] [00:25:09] Sharon Sweeney: Me, me. I really got, "Oh my god. I was scared." Be careful. Guys will grab you. They'll just shove you forward. Then, the next thing is you're climbing into things that you could easily break your neck on. Just be careful of that. [sound cut] [00:25:27] Kerry Newsome: Good footwear. [00:25:29] Sharon Sweeney: Yes, and beware of the heat. music] No 4 – Top 5 Vietnam Travel Podcasts [00:25:38] Kerry Newsome: Still in Hoi An, I take you to the fourth top episode in the What About Vietnam series where we talk to Paul Simpson. Now, Paul's got a wonderful length and breadth of history about the Old Town. He actually has been working there for the last few years and has grown to love it. He has some really great stories to tell about things to do in the Old Town and some great knowledge to share. Not at all surprised why you love this episode as Paul really shares from the heart. You can really appreciate the things that you should do. He gives some insights into how long you should maybe consider including in a stay there, maybe three to five days. That is a minimum to really cover the Old Town and the beaches and all the things that there are to do from Hoi An as a base. A family-friendly place, a place for a solid traveler, great food spots. You've got the beach and the Old Town to explore. I've plucked a few highlights out from this episode just to remind you what's such a good one it is. [chuckles] I know exactly why you picked it in your top 4. Let's have a chat with Paul Simpson again as he talks to us about Hoi An, stepping back in time. [music] [00:27:07] Paul Simpson: It's picturesque. If you're a photography buff, you can come and see all the places and discover new ones, where to take photos, different times a day, different lighting like Monet. You can come to Hoi An and ride in a basket boat. They may-- giant baskets and turn them into boats, very creative, use bamboo reeds and palm fronds. You can go to the Trà Quế village to learn about local farming techniques and how they still do things by hand. The foods that you eat in the local restaurants and in your hotels are all farmed here. It's wonderful, very fresh. You're eating literally from farm to table. You can see how they make silk where the industry really hasn't changed in the last 500 years. The only thing that's changed is they've mechanized it, but you can still see them using a loom, hand-weaving things. They're for sale. They're still here. You can learn that. Pottery. The pottery village here still uses a giant earthen oven they feed it full of wood and charcoal to heat it up. Then, they handmake all of the ceramics and put them in using what looks like a pizza. What do they call it? A pizza peel. It's called a peel, a pizza peel. They put it in using a pizza peel. A few hours later, they take it out. It's ceramic. Hoi An was known for its lanterns. Everyone in Southeast Asia going back four, five, six hundred years. They knew about the silk lanterns hanging in the streets of Hoi An. They're beautiful. They're decorative. They're everywhere. Anyone who comes to Hoi An takes a silk lantern home. You can learn to make them. You hang them in your house. They're beautiful, softly lit. You can come to Hoi An and get the best of pretty much all vacations you can get, all of those. You can go golfing at one of four premier golf courses. You can take cooking classes and learn how to cook amazing Vietnamese cuisine, the fusion of flavors. You can come to Hoi An and go to the beach. We have beautiful beaches here. You can enjoy strolling through the Old Town and see the history. You're walking down a street that was laid out 500 years ago. The houses really haven't changed. It is an earthen ceramic structure made with ceramic bricks and hand-carved and hand-turned wood accents on the doors. The doors aren't really doors. They're wood slats that they stack up on top of each other. They're still using those. The windows are the same. They have shutters. There's no glass. They're all open. This little town is the United Nations World Heritage site because they haven't changed it. They've preserved it for centuries. No 5 – Top 5 Vietnam Travel Podcasts [00:30:53] Kerry Newsome: Who would have thought that the number five in the top 5 of the What About Vietnam series would be about shopping? Who would have thought? Ah me. I would have thought because I know what shopping can be as an experience in Vietnam. There was only one person I thought of first to do this with. It was Judith Treanor. Judith Treanor comes to the program with a long history of traveling back and forth. She has a fantastic knowledge base of ethical and sustainable products across the countryside. I can totally understand why you love the episode as she shares her knowledge across Hanoi, Hoi An, Saigon. She talks about various districts. She talks about various brands that you might look for. It's a really entertaining episode. I've actually done one trip with her and thoroughly enjoyed myself and learned so much more about Vietnam, a lot more than just markets, which is what you probably originally think about Vietnam. It's got fashion. It's got designers. It's got talent that is just starting to ooze out of that country and really needs to be embraced. I'm sure post-COVID, we're going to really see a lot more of that. Please have another look at some of the highlights here in this episode. Please listen to the full episode. You can always go to her web her website, which is templesandmarkets.com.au, where she features some of the products that she's actually bought there. If you want to get them, you can get them online from her online store. A lot to share in the episode. I've just [unintelligible 00:32:42] out some highlights that I think might resonate with you, and you'll enjoy. Let's dive in and let's go shopping. [music] [00:32:56] Judith Treanor: Local designer, boutiques, and cafes that you'd never know existed. You just got to wander if you've got time. [crosstalk] [00:33:01] Kerry Newsome: Yes. Sometimes those, as you say, are quite hard to find. They're hidden. They're very small doorways. I would have walked right past that. I would not have seen that. Then, all of a sudden, you said, "No. Oh, this is where we're going." All of a sudden, we're up those stairs. I've gone, "Wow." There's just this amazing store with this amazing stuff. Yes. [00:33:23] Judith Treanor: Yes. You can suddenly lose a few hours of your day. [laughs] [00:33:27] Kerry Newsome: Oh. A few hours. [00:33:29] Judith Treanor: Add some days in. I think we've got to give us a tip and add some extra days in for shopping on your trip. It might not be something you do think about when you're going to Vietnam, but seriously, it's a shopping paradise. We're going to get into it. One of my favorite streets in the center of Saigon is Lê Lợi . It's quite a major road on the other side of Ben Thanh Market. In one short stretch of road, you'll find Ipanema Bags, Gingko, L’Usine, Duy Tan, and Mekong Plus. These are all shops selling locally handmade, ethical, and fashion homewares and gifts. That's something else we're going to talk about as we go on. There's a big emphasis on these locally handmade and ethical and wonderful creations all over Vietnam. I guess those are the tips if you've got a short time in the country. If you've got time, just delve a little bit deeper. To discover the best of Vietnam shopping, I think you'll need to venture a short taxi distance away from the center of each city. In Hanoi, grab a taxi, go to Tây Hồ Lake, which is also known as West Lake. If you're in Saigon, head to District 2. Now, interestingly enough, these are both areas where the ex-pats shop and live and where you'll find the best representation of Vietnamese artisan-made fashion and homewares. [00:34:54] Kerry Newsome: Yes. They're the areas where I think they're not the mainstream. If you've just arrived in Vietnam, got off the plane, in Ho Chi Minh City, in particular, you smack bang into District 1, aren't you? [00:35:11] Judith Treanor: Yes, exactly. [chuckles] [crosstalk] [00:35:13] Kerry Newsome: You go to District 2, all those other areas. You've got to think a bit wider but also get some tips like we're talking about now about going to those districts and what to look for because wow, I was just blown away. [00:35:28] Judith Treanor: That's it. I think Vietnamese, they're really known for artisan crafts and the way they use traditional methods to create modern designs. I think first-timers might be surprised to know there really is a flourishing fashion scene in Vietnam. They even have their own annual fashion show each year featuring local designers. If you have got extra time, it may be an extra day, go and find that out. [music] [00:35:58] Kerry Newsome: I hope you've enjoyed the journey we've taken today through the Top 5 episodes of the What About Vietnam series. It's been an absolute delight to bring those highlights and just relive some of the thoughts, aspirations, advice, insights, etc. That my wonderful guests who come on the show share with us. I hope you'll take the opportunity to maybe look further into the series at whataboutvietnam.com. You can always reach me at whataboutvietnam@gmail.com . I'm always happy to answer any queries that you have. Obviously, at the moment for a tourist, the country isn't open for us to visit, but that doesn't stop any of us doing trip planning. The good thing about trip planning is it can be fun when it is matched up with people that have had those experiences that can share them with you as they do on the show. We can have a laugh about them. We can find out all the crazy things that some people do and just walk away with that knowledge that is going to help make you have a fabulous trip in Vietnam when those doors do come open. [music] [00:37:17] Outro: Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What About Vietnam. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. Stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam. [00:37:55] [END

S4-09 Hanoi A Foodies Paradise P1 What About Vietnam – S4 -9 - A Foodie’s Paradise – Part One SPEAKERS: Kerry Newsome, Corrin Carlson Kerry Newsome: 00:18 Xin Chào and welcome to “ What About Vietnam ”. Sometimes when you travel light with an open mind, and you're not tied down with any commitments that can't be changed, the world can truly open up as your oyster. Let me begin today's program with some background to my guest. It started with a working holiday, I'm told, starting in New Zealand, moved on to Asia, then to Hanoi for a month, then that led to three months and ultimately would you believe to three years. As you will soon find out, this is only the tip of the iceberg for my delightful foodie guest on today's show, Corrin Carlson, who found her heart and passion for food in Hanoi. 01:26 Corrin is a delightful American girl, who is using her acting and education to share her travel journey throughout Asia with her next stop being Europe in September 22, one to definitely watch out for. You may have seen Corrin on her very popular "The Fat Passport" TikTok and Instagram pages. As she shares her "Plates of Hanoi" with her followers. Her personality and knowledge really shine through in her posts. And I think she does the same in this show. You tell me. While Corrin was visiting her friends and family in the US just recently, I was able to hook up with her to record the show. Being such a wealth of information about the food localities in Hanoi, and some really great experiences, I just knew one episode wasn't going to cut it. So,I've expanded it into a two-part series. That way you get the full picture of some of her great finds, and she’s certainly got some super-duper tips for a stay in Hanoi. Without further adieu, let's welcome Corrin to the program. 02:47 Corrin Hello, and great to have you on the show. Corrin Carlson: 02:50 Thank you so much for having me. Kerry Newsome: 02:52 Let's just jump right in. Hey, I'm really keen to talk about Hanoi with you. And I know you're going to take us through the city and talk about it from a tourist as you were, when you first arrived, and then originally to someone living there for three years. So maybe share with us just some of those things about the city as a whole, just to kick things off for everyone. Corrin Carlson: 03:20 Well, Hanoi is without a doubt one of my favorite cities in the world. And like you said, I first came to Hanoi as a tourist. And I loved it so much that I kept extending my stay until so finally I realized I was living there. And then I did live there for three years because it really just draws you in. I used to live in New York. So, I love Big City energy. And for me Hanoi is one of those cities that just totally encapsulates that. There's so much going on, so much history, so much vibrant life happening pretty much around the clock. And it's just an absolutely stunning place to get lost in and also to live in. Kerry Newsome: 03:59 The times that I've visited, I've probably acted more as the tourist because I am a tourist, let's face it, I didn't get to live there, and I don't get to live there. But there's certainly some areas which I felt more drawn to because of their architecture, as you say, that vibe in the area, just the atmosphere and the friendliness, a great one. Can you speak to that yourself? Corrin Carlson: 04:27 Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think Hanoi is a city that's one of a kind in the way, like the best cities in the world are. I know so many people love Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City). It's very cosmopolitan. But to me, Saigon is like a cut and copy of a lot of other large cities that you find. But Hanoi because of its history is entirely its own. So, it's a large city. It's a city of about 5 million people, but because it has so much rich history and it is a city of lots of skyscrapers. It's a lot flatter in comparison to other large cities. So, the old architecture from the French, from before the French and from immediately after, really, is the main focus of what the city looks like. And also, you'll find that people sometimes, especially southerners, say that, "Oh, in the north, the Hanoians, they're so stuck up there." Kerry Newsome: 05:26 [laughter] I've heard that, too. Corrin Carlson: 05:28 Yeah, exactly. And especially as a foreigner, who didn't speak Vietnamese, when I first arrived, when you hear the dialect of the north, and you see the mannerisms of people that they have, it seems very brisk, very blunt. So, it doesn't seem right away that people are very happy to see you, or even very happy going about their own lives. But once you just get used to the culture, and you start even to learn a little bit of the language, you realize that people are saying very nice things to you, even if they don't have a smile on their face all the time. It's just kind of the emotional state of the north. So, I think people are kind of turned off by that sometimes as a tourist or as a foreigner. But if you walk in, and you're just kind and polite, you can trust that even if you don't understand people, they're being kind and polite back to you. Kerry Newsome: 06:17 It's a good point to mention, because I think you're right. I think I've noticed that there is a serious note to the people in Hanoi, they are very serious facially. But every time I've dealt with anyone in Hanoi, and I actually do some work in Hanoi with a tourist company, everyone is just so lovely. And I find even the youth of Vietnam, they are even more exuberant to talk to foreigners, because they want to practice their English and they want to do things, they want to get to know a little bit about you and what we know about Vietnam back to them. So, there's a really nice view, but I do say, again, that I do get drawn to the lake areas or around the lakes, but maybe you talk to us about your experiences of the best kind of places for a tourist to head towards. Where would you suggest that they start their journey or their trip in Hanoi? Corrin Carlson: 07:29 Yeah, absolutely. You're so right. The lakes are such a total hub to both the living and the tourism, culture parts of Hanoi. So, in the very center of Hoàn Kiếm, we have Hoàn Kiếm Lake, which is an ancient lake, and there's a lot of story and history behind it, a lot of old temples in it, that surround it. And so, what I would say, if you are coming to Hanoi as a tourist, you only have one, two, maybe even three days, I would say that staying near Hoàn Kiếm Lake in that central district is the best place for you to be. There's so much going on everywhere in the city. But most of the tourist places, most of the temples that you want to go and visit, most of the souvenir shopping is going to be right in that area. So, that's a great place to be. 08:20 If you have a couple more days, say you're there four, five, seven days, I definitely do recommend staying over by Hồ Tây, which is the big, big lake that takes up a large portion of the center of Hanoi. And there's a neighborhood there, where actually a lot of foreigners live called, Hồ Tây, means West Lake. So, this is the western area where a lot of people live. And there's a lot of like great nightlife, great restaurants, a lot more people speaking English in that area too, if you're interested in having conversations with Vietnamese people or with foreigners who live there, and just hearing about their lives. So, both areas have a lot of history, a lot of great food and a lot of great views to them. It just depends on what your timeframe is. Kerry Newsome: 09:06 Yeah, and that's a good point to mention the timeframe because I know when I first went, I literally did the 'hop in, quick surveillance of the city', did the major points and got out, so I really didn't get a good feel for the city. It was just too short. But of course,subsequent visits, I've delved in a little bit deeper and spread my wings a little bit further and got to know people and things like that. And the lake that you mentioned, as in West Lake, that's the lake that you don't hear that much about. And it's a shame because, as you say, it's got a little bit of a different vibe to it than Hoàn Kiếm Lake. Maybe share a little bit more about West Lake if you wouldn't mind, because I think it deserves a bit more attention. Corrin Carlson: 09:59 Yes, certainly. So, there's about three or four different districts, different distinct neighborhoods that surround West Lake because it is such a large lake. And each of those neighborhoods has their own feel. But it's really common for people who live in those neighborhoods to spend a morning, biking around the lake or walking around the lake with friends, it's a couple of kilometers long. So that's a really nice activity. And then when you are doing that, when you're going along the lake, you're going to see lots of shops and restaurants. But more than anything, what you're going to see is so many coffee shops. 10:35 You're talking about the youth of Vietnam before and they have so much energy, they like to be seen, they like to dress up, they like to take photos with their friends. And so going to the coffee shops on the lake is a really popular activity with young Vietnamese people. But with people of all ages, the coffee culture is so huge there. And so if you get a chance to go over to Hồ Tây, and then take a taxi there, which is really affordable and doesn't take much time, no matter where you're coming from, you can cafe bop around different parts of the lake and enjoy the views and also enjoy just getting to be around people who live in those neighborhoods. Kerry Newsome: 11:14 And you're right, they do have an energy, especially the younger people, which I love, because they make every event and even the event of just eating food, something to celebrate. They're always taking photos of the food, the taking photos of the people that they're with, the place they're in. So, they really celebrate it. And at first, I found that, "Oh, gosh, do they have to take a photo of everything?" But it was explained to me that it is part of their fun. It's part of their enjoyment of the occasion. And it's quite lovely in the end, you get swept into it a little bit. In the end, I was taking photos of everything that I could get my hands on. [laughter] Corrin Carlson: 11:57 Yeah, of course. Kerry Newsome: 11:59 So, I'm going to ask you to dig a little bit deeper, because I know something that you found, it was your thing. Because I've seen you so often and followed you on your TikTok and on your Instagram page. So, let's of dig deep into the food, which I think you thought or found was 'Top of the Pops'. Corrin Carlson: 12:28 Yeah, absolutely. I'd be happy to. Should we start with some more casual dining, some street food? Kerry Newsome: 12:33 Yes. Let's start there. Yes. Corrin Carlson: 12:36 Awesome. So, you're right, I started an Instagram page called "Plates of Hanoi", shortly after moving to Hanoi, because I love street food, and I love Vietnamese food. And in the north in Hanoi, there's phenomenal food. But what I was finding was that there wasn't a lot of influencers who spoke English that were writing about it. So, I was going out and trying all these foods, and I thought, "Oh, I think other people who speak English would be interested in learning what these foods are, too." So, I just started documenting it. And then that page really took off. So, in Hanoi, there's a lot of competition, again, between the north and the south and that people think that Saigon food is better, but I have to disagree. The North just has incredible richness and flavor. Because the North actually has four seasons, four very distinct seasons. So instead of things being light and sweet like they are in the south, you'll find a lot heartier dishes and a lot heartier flavors. Even the Phở in the north is much heartierthan you'll find in Saigon in the south. Kerry Newsome: 13:43 Yes, it's true. Corrin Carlson: 13:44 Yeah. And Phở actually comes from the north, that originated from either Hanoi or the very northern rigids of the country. It's kind of disputed. So, northerners are very specific about the way that they make Phở. So, in the south, and often when you're in other countries, for example, in the US, and you try. I had tried for here; it was southern style. So, it came with lots of herbs, and lots of lime and bean sprouts, things that you add into the broth, but in the north, the dish comes out as is and you can put in some garlic, you can put in some chili sauce, but that's it. Because the broth is so much richer and it's so much heartier. It's more to just be celebrated on its own. And even though it gets super-hot in the summer, just like it does in Saigon. People eat Phở every single day. It is an absolute staple. 14:37 Some other dishes that are distinct to Hanoi, the most famous dish in Hanoi is Bún Chả and this is- maybe many people who are listening, who have seen the episode with Anthony Bourdain, and he takes Obama to a Bún Chả spot in Hanoi and they have a great conversation. But the reason why that dish was picked was because it just totally encapsulates the food, the street food scene in Hanoi. So you have little grilled pork patties that are grilled over an open flame, and often made with lemongrass and there will be cut up pork belly as well, it's all going to come in a broth, usually a fish sauce base with sugar in it, it will come with herbs on the side and Bún which is like vermicelli noodles. 15:25 With Vietnamese dishes, it's very common that pieces will come a little bit here, a little bit there. And then you're supposed to take a bite of this, and a bite of this and a bite of this and put it all together in your mouth. So, it's DIY, in terms of flavor, and what you want to add. So Bún Chả is something that you absolutely need to try when you're in Hanoi. You can still go to the restaurant, or Anthony Bourdain and Obama ate, it's now called Bún Chả Obama. And it has the table where they ate, encased in glass and set up as if they were there. Personally, I don't think it's the best Bún Chả in Hanoi, I would prefer someplace in Hoàn Kiếm, like, Bún Chả 34, Bún Chả. But it's a good example. Kerry Newsome: 15:25 And I've been there. It's not actually a fancy place, is it? Corrin Carlson: 16:09 No. Kerry Newsome: 16:09 It's got little red chairs, It's just really, really a street food type place. Because when I first went there, I expected, because Obama had been there. That they would have taken him somewhere a little bit special, but it wasn't. It was just a really average everyday street food place. So, when you go there, don't think you're in the wrong place. You're probably in the right place. Corrin Carlson: 16:38 You're so right. And that season, that Anthony Bourdain was filming, it was all about street food places. So, it was the perfect option for them to take care, though I did hear that, all the other people that are in the restaurant at that time are actually background actors, so. Kerry Newsome: 16:53 Yes, I know that [laughter] Well, you've got to give it your best shot, haven't you? Corrin Carlson: 16:58 Yes, exactly. One other great thing that I will recommend about Hanoi because a lot of the food has meats, or it has some kind of protein in it. So, people are a little bit cautious if they're vegetarian, or perhaps if they're vegan before they traveled to Vietnam. But a really lovely thing that I enjoyed learning about and especially enjoyed eating when I was in Hanoi, were at the vegan buffets. So, it's a part of Vietnamese culture to eat vegan food, one to two times a month, depending on the lunar calendar, if you practice Buddhism. Some of the younger generations follow it, sometimes they don't. But even still Vegan Buffets have come out of this. 17:40 So, you can find some 'hole in the wall' places, and some places that are just absolutely built up and beautiful. And you spend about one to $3 and it's all buffet style vegan food. And I don't know about you, Kerry, but I never used to like vegan food, [laughter] I suck up my nose about it. And I was like, "Tofu? Why would I eat that?" And then I went to Vietnam, and I completely changed my mind about vegan food. They do it so well. And they just have amazing simple ingredients, but awesome flavors. One place that I really like that's in Hoàn Kiếm, it's also in Tây Hồ, they have a couple locations around the city. It's called Veggie Castle. It's in big three-story houses, and all of their locations as grand buffet. And it's just like a cool place to hang out too, you'll find lots of young Vietnamese people there. Kerry Newsome: 18:35 I'm really glad that you starting to mention some places because I want to be able to direct people, because sometimes I think when you arrive in Vietnam, and I hear it from people all the time, it's a little bit overwhelming. It is so buzzy, there's the motorbike thing, there's a lot going on.. So, trying to point people to a particular area or particular place helps, because then they can find, and if you're a vegan or you're a vegetarian, and that's really what you want to do. Well, I'm going to make sure that I put the link and mention this properly in the show notes. So, if you are vegan, you're not lost, you're going to find places very easily in Hanoi, which offer vegetarian or vegan food. And it's the same for people that are gluten intolerant. People say, "Oh, you can't go to Vietnam because yourgluten intolerant." And I go, "Whoa, that's not quite right because there's the beautiful broths." As you say, you don't need to actually add the noodles and you can still get those beautiful flavors with the herbs and the chicken or the beef whatever you choose. Corrin Carlson: 19:54 Exactly. I have to add too, that often the noodles or rice noodles, so Phở noodles, Bún. If you like Bánh like a Bánh it's rice flour, rice noodles. So, if you're super, like Coeliac intolerant, yeah, there might be some gluten somewhere in the process, which is something to watch out for. But if it's just something you choose not to eat, you're going to be totally fine. All you really can't eat is Banh Mi. But that's it. Everything else is rice flour based. Kerry Newsome: 20:23 Yeah. And that's a shame because I'm a big fan of Banh Mi.. [laughter] I mean, totally, that is my go-to, when my girlfriend picks me up from the airport when I arrive, the first place she takes me is to a place to get by Banh Mi., doesn't matter what time I arrive. That's the first go-to. Corrin Carlson: 20:41 Absolutely, you can find it any time of day too. Kerry Newsome: 20:44 You can. Yeah, absolutely. And it's just not the same. Like they sell, these places here in Australia that sell it. And it's just not the same. I hate to say it, but it's just not. Corrin Carlson: 20:54 I agree. It's almost too fancy. The places you go to here in the States, they're like to put together and like, "No, I needed to slap that sandwich around a bit, and then it's going to taste right." Kerry Newsome: 21:03 [laughter] Yes, exactly. All right. So, street food, anything more you want to add for people so that they can really get a good sense of street food in Hanoi? Corrin Carlson: 21:15 Yeah, absolutely, I would love to talk about a few more. Another dish that I would say, is a standout in Hanoi is called: Phở Cuốn. Instead of the Phở noodles that we know that they're skinny and long, it's the same noodle, just not cut up. So, it's going to look like a sheet of noodle, the same thickness. It's laid out flat. And then inside is posed, usually roasted beef, lettuce, and coriander and then it's rolled up. So, it creates this nice little roll. And it's served with dipping sauce. So that dish also originates in Hanoi. There's a great little island, or tiny little neighborhood on Hồ Tây called Trúc Bạch. And this is the birthplace of this dish, Phở Cuốn. So, when you're driving around Hanoi, you'll find often that you'll be on a street, and you'll look at the street, and you'll realize that all of the restaurants on the street, or all of the shops on the street are selling the exact same thing. 22:20 That's just how the Vietnamese view competition. It's like, 'Well, if my competitor has clients that are coming here to buy Phở Cuốn, then if I'm here with Phở Cuốn, some of them will come to me, rather than being spread out.' So, for example, when you go to Trúc Bạch, all you have to do is cross the bridge onto Trúc Bạch islands, and entire street that you drive down is packed with Phở Cuốn restaurants all the way down, probably 10 on each side. And you can really walk into any of them, there'll be slightly different and have a few different things on the menu or cooking that's a little bit different. But more or less, it's the same food, the same ingredients. And so,it's fun to be in those places and look around and be surrounded by the same things. Kerry Newsome: 23:06 And I think if you use the advice, I had from someone recently, I spoke to about food in Hawaii, he said, "A good way to pick a restaurant is to pick it by their menu." So, if they have a very big menu, like an extremely extensive menu, then he said, "You can figure yourself that they're not going to be able to cook all of that fresh or super fresh." So, it's more looking for the restaurants or street vendors, that have got a very small menu, because it's what they focus on. And it's certainly going to be the freshest and made that day. And just something else I thought mentioning, some places- correct me if I'm wrong here Corrin, is that sometimes it's all gone by like 10 o'clock in the morning, that day. Because, if I'm sort of getting up from having a lazy day, and I want to mooch and have something later. I go to some places, and they've sold out. Because the Vietnamese are very early morning people and breakfast and getting up early to meditate or go for a walk or that sort of thing. They then are having their breakfast quite early. So sometimes the Phở is all gone early. So, it's not necessarily a dish that you have in evening or whatever. It's earlierin the day, would you say? Corrin Carlson: 24:40 Yeah, definitely. And it's interesting. I would say that each Phở restaurants, it's unless one of the really well-known popular ones. Usually, it'll serve through one meal. So, like you said, they wake up at 4am, they'll prepare their Phở and then it'll be done by 9am, or there'll be a lunch spot or there'll be a late at night spot, for like people who are getting off work late at night. And that's very common for a lot of different dishes and street food that you'll find in Hanoi as well. Kerry Newsome: 25:13 Yes. When you were mooching around and picking places, how did you pick places that you decided to try and then ultimately record on your Instagram or TikTok page? Corrin Carlson: 25:27 Yeah, I asked a lot of friends, both foreigners and Vietnamese for their recommendations. And I stalked Instagram so hard, and I would save posts from other people that I followed, who were Vietnamese foodies, and places that I wanted to try, or dishes that I wanted to try, and I could try elsewhere. Even just searching through hashtags like #HanoiEats or #FoodieHanoi, #HanoiFoods, those gave me a lot of ideas about what to eat. And honestly, I am a very adventurous person, which was why I decided doing the "Plates of Hanoi" and photographing these things was a good thing for me to do, because I'll eat anything. But I know some people want to learn about it first. 26:14 What I can definitely say to you in Hanoi is, there's a lot of these staple dishes. They're very neighborhood based when it comes to the street food. So, there'll be a great Phở spot on the street. And on the next street, there'll be another great Phở spot, and there'll be a little bit different. But neither of them is bad. What I would say, as a tourist in Vietnam, especially, is, learn some of the names of these dishes, do just a little bit of research about what they look like and what they are. And then as you're walking around the city, and you see a Phở restaurant, or you see a Bún Chả restaurant, you're like, "Hey, I know what that is. It's not the place that I was planning to go based off a recommendation, but it looks good, it looks busy, I'm going to go in." And you're guaranteed to have a great meal, even if it's not the original location that you wanted to visit. Kerry Newsome: 27:07 I agree, and I think if you see a lot of Vietnamese at a restaurant, that's always a good tip. Corrin Carlson: 27:19 One thing that is so much fun, and I think maybe not a lot of tourists do it. There is a street in Hanoi, which is called Chicken Street. And you can look it up on Google Maps. And it won't say Chicken Street, it will point you to the actual Vietnamese name, but it is a street that is just like the Phở Cuốn street where every restaurant on that street selling one thing, this street is all selling Barbecue Chicken and Barbecue ribs, pork ribs, pretty much. Each restaurant will have a slightly different variation, but pretty much all the same things. And it's only a nighttime activity, mostly people will go as couples or they'll go with groups of friends, they order beer, they order, grilled chicken, and grilled ribs and grilled Bánh Miến, it's just like a super fun night out. Each restaurant will have their own hot sauce recipe that they're well known for. That's right Hoàn Kiếm. And it is always a great meal. Just like you said before, go to the ones that have some people but it kind of depends on the night. Sometimes my favorite is pretty quiet, even though, it is a very popular place. But I've never been disappointed on that street. I definitely recommend it to anyone who eats meat. Kerry Newsome: 28:39 I mean, I know we're talking about all the good things about food in Hanoi. Are there any things that you would warn people out about like, maybe stay clear this and that. Because sometimes, in the media, it plays up a lot of negative things like dog and pigeon, and things like that. So maybe we need to talk a little bit about that, just to give people perspective. Corrin Carlson: 29:05 So, right Kerry, I get asked about dog all the time when I'm not in Vietnam by people who are wondering about the cuisine there. And it's something I'm super happy to just put to rest and lay out for people as well because I know it's something that foreigners and tourists worry about. So typically, and traditionally in Vietnamese cuisine, dog meat was actually something that was very expensive, and was only eaten on special occasions or on special group outings with friends. So, it's never a meat that you are going to accidentally end up with in any of your dishes, ever. Kerry Newsome: 29:41 Correct. Corrin Carlson: 29:42 Unless you're maybe out with a big group of Vietnamese people. It's a very special occasion. I've heard, one or two people out of hundreds- It's just not common. But one or two people say to me, I went out, I ate this meat. I thought it was very good. And then the next day I found it was dog, but that was just because they were out maybe with their business partners or something like that. So the only times that you would come across this meat- sometimes you will see places in Hanoi selling dog meat, but it's actually becoming very unpopular now, because the younger generation have really grabbed on to the idea of dogs as pets, which the older generations used dogs more as guard dogs and less so much as pets. So that mentality is changing in the big cities. If you go to a smaller city, you might see a little bit more of it. But again, it's expensive, and it's very well marked. So, it's not something that you're ever going to accidentally consume. Kerry Newsome: 30:38 Yeah, and I'm really glad you've put it that way. Because I think that's the fear and the uneducated- that don't know about it. And it's not commonly spoken about on any social media, but it's important, I think to address that it's just not going to land on your plate accidentally. 30:55 This is where we're going to finish part one of Hanoi, A Foodie's Paradise. Join me for part two of my interview with Corrin Carlson in the next episode, where we talk more about what to look for in Hanoi for food, and taste sensations. And let's check out where those fabulous tips are from Corrin. Stay tuned to What About Vietnam and follow us on our Facebook , Instagram and Pinterest pages. 31:27 Before we let you go, I thought I would introduce you to a new Cooking Class and Market Tour that's now featuring on the WhatAboutVietnam.com website. It's based in Hanoi. So, after we've been chatting about Hanoi and some of the great foodie experiences, I thought this was a great one to remind you about. What's wonderful about this is, the class is with Chef Duyen. I've done the class with her she's absolutely fabulous, great personality, what she doesn't know about cooking our food, the markets will just blow you away. What's exceptional about this tour and the opportunity to learn from her is that she brings her class now into her own home. So,you get to meet her family. You get to just hear about how food is a big part of Vietnamese culture, their family life and social upbringing. You should try all kinds of cooking classes in Vietnam, but I hope you're going to enjoy this one in Hanoi with the Chef Duyen. Please check it out in WhatAboutVietnam.com , on the Offers page . Until next time, I wish you happy travels in Vietnam. Please rate, review and send us your comments. Follow us on facebook here - https://www.facebook.com/whataboutvietnam Follow us on Insta here - https://www.instagram.com/whataboutvietnampodcast/ Follow us on LinkedIN here - https://www.linkedin.com/company/what-about-vietnam/ YOU TUBE - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCavCC1--oE5rUhO_SlENmqw Stay tuned for more in Part 2.

fdafa5c8-3d69-4212-9948-50f4089dab91Lockdown insights and upcoming travel advice What About Vietnam - Series 3 - 11 Saigon’s Covid recovery and tourism outlook 2022 [00:00:35] Kerry Newsome: Xin chào . Welcome to What About Vietnam . In today's episode, we're going to be talking to Michael Tatarski in Ho Chi Minh City. Michael is editor-in-chief of Saigoneer, the Vietnamese culture and history website, and author of the Vietnam weekly newsletter. Michael has been instrumental in keeping many of us informed about the COVID spread in Vietnam and just the devastation it has caused in Saigon in particular. I feel very privileged to have him on to give us some local insights but also to give us some insights into just how it has affected the population of Saigon. What the COVID lockdown restrictions have actually meant at a street level and what that's been like to not leave your building and things like that. The other reason I'm really glad to have him on to talk about this in an authority way is because I think we're going to be drawing some comparisons in years to come from episodes like this, recording this in real-time. This is October 2021. I think we're going to be looking at Vietnam in new lights and new ways in years to come when we will be able, say, especially for people like myself who can draw history in various visits back and forth over the last 14 years, just to compare changes, new initiatives, things that have eventuated due to the pandemic, good and bad. It's great to have Michael on. I hope you enjoy this episode and can take on the information, knowing that the lockdown restrictions are going to be easing on the first of October. This episode will be going up that week. Let's hope. Let's cross fingers that Vietnam is starting to turn a corner and seeing some light on the other side for travelers. Please welcome Michael to the program. [music] [00:02:59] Kerry Newsome: Michael, it's great to have you on the show. [00:03:01] Michael Tatarski: Sure, no problem. [00:03:02] Kerry Newsome: How are you doing? [00:03:04] Michael Tatarski: Yes, doing all right. We're well over three months, I think, about three and a half months of hard lockdown here in Ho Chi Minh City. We'll get into this more. It looks like some relief is finally on the horizon on Friday. I don't know exactly when this will come out, but Friday, October 1st looks like there's going to be big changes finally. [chuckles] [00:03:23] Kerry Newsome: Maybe if you could be descriptive to my listeners. Just talking about what it's been like. You are living in Saigon, working in Saigon. You're right in the thick of it. Maybe talk to us a little bit about what the last 90 days and Saigon's been like. [00:03:43] Michael Tatarski: Sure. With the COVID, I've been lucky now. I'm lucky. I've had steady work. I'm able to work from home comfortably, don't have to worry about how am I going to pay for my next meal and that kind of stuff. There are certainly those comforts, but it's been tough. There's no other way to put it. The strict lockdown began. I wouldn't say it was July 9th, but early July. These rules that are called Directive 16 means only being able to go out for essential items and things like that, which we had for a period in 2020 in March and April, really early in the pandemic. You were still able to exercise outside and that sort of thing. Granted, the case numbers were in the hundreds [00:04:30] Kerry Newsome: Straight and low. Yes. [00:04:31] Michael Tatarski: Yes. Here in Ho Chi Minh City, there was this outbreak really exploded. We were hitting 8,000, 9,000 cases a day, which for Vietnam is a lot, to put it mildly. That went into effect. They banned all food delivery as well and also all outdoor exercise, which caught a lot of people by surprise. That meant cooking every meal for about three months. They did relax food delivery a couple of weeks ago, which was really, really nice. It's good for businesses to finally get some income again and great for people to not have to cook all the time. [chuckles] Then, not being able to go outside. I know some of the international coverage has been a little maybe overdone a bit. A month ago, they did bring in the military or some elements of it to support the lockdown when the situation became really extreme in the public health sense. The hospital system was on the verge of collapse. Almost 300 deaths a day just in the city. They had to build almost 20 field hospitals to handle all the cases. It was an absolute crisis. I would have to say probably the worst situation to hit the city since the war ended at least in 30 years or something like that. There's no doubt about it. It was extremely serious even with the military coming in. Soldiers at the corner of your street, making sure you didn't leave the house. You could, at least, walk outside your gate. There was nowhere to go. Everything was closed. You really shouldn't have been out on the streets. It wasn't safe. The virus was-- it remains really widespread. Vaccination rates are higher now, thankfully. It's less of a risk if you're vaccinated to be out. Yes, just week after week of just being at home, [chuckles] which [crosstalk] if you like me, and you can work from home, it is frustrating, but you'll get by. For a lot of people, which I know we'll get to, it's absolutely devastating to go that long without work. [00:06:35] Kerry Newsome: Yes, absolutely. [00:06:37] Michael Tatarski: Food supplies were a real issue for a lot of people. Especially, for a long time in lockdown, we couldn't even go grocery shopping. You had to get it delivered. Some of that was through a government system. Some of it was through privately-owned supermarkets that eventually got their own systems figured out. A lot of people are still going hungry. Food supply has been a real problem. [00:07:01] Kerry Newsome: Yes. The government did step in there for a bit and was handing out small sums of money to the poor so that they could get a basic meal because, I guess, for people listening, Saigon is so densely populated. The food industry or the street food industry is huge. We, you and I, were laughing before about having to cook meals. It's a city where you don't cook yourself that often because it's often cheaper to eat out. All of those very small vendors lost their patronage. They packed up their stuff and had nowhere to go. They were trying to leave the city and, I think, take some comfort by heading home to the rural areas where the virus wasn't. Yes, just refuge at home, I think, until it all went away. [00:08:03] Michael Tatarski: Yes, it's important. If people aren't familiar with the cities now that-- They say the population is around 9,000,000 or 10,000,000, but I think it's widely assumed that that's off by several million potentially. There's a huge population of migrant workers. People have moved here. This is the economic engine of the country, this and a couple of neighboring provinces. A huge draw from provinces where there's a less economic activity and less development. A lot of these workers, you mentioned, cooking. It's not that they're not able to cook. They can't. They live in tiny shared homes or tenement buildings that don't have kitchens or very limited kitchens. [00:08:42] Kerry Newsome: Facilities, yes, or gas. Yes [00:08:46] Michael Tatarski: Their job is working at a construction site or something like that. When that all gets shut down, that's all there is for them. [music] I understood the hospital system, obviously, was not able to cope. I've got some other friends in Saigon. They were talking about that hotels were commissioned. Some officers were commissioned to put together makeshift hospital rooms to cater to some of the patients. They were selling oxygen and things like that. That was a priority for people. Did you hear similar? [00:09:36] Michael Tatarski: Yes. From the start of the pandemic, as I'm sure you've discussed here, Vietnam took a really aggressive reaction. [crosstalk] [00:09:44] Kerry Newsome: Yes, I was there in March 2020. [00:09:47] Michael Tatarski: Oh right. For most of us- [00:09:48] Kerry Newsome: Just better. [00:09:49] Michael Tatarski: -that worked really well. For most of the first 18 months of the pandemic, we live life shockingly normally compared to a lot of other countries. One of the reasons, I think, or at least it's believed the government reacted like this is because they knew the health system couldn't handle a huge outbreak. We saw that in Ho Chi Minh City. Yes, they also converted a couple of huge empty apartment complexes into gigantic field hospitals with thousands of rooms. I do want to clarify not all of those rooms were really sick people. Some of them actually were asymptomatic. They eventually changed to letting those people stay at home, which took some pressure off. Yes, it was an all-hands-on-deck. Hanoi sent in a lot of doctors and medical workers. Other provinces did as well. The military sent in some doctors and health reinforcements for lack of a better word. Yes, it was a national effort and also showed that if something like this had happened in numerous provinces, it would have been a really, really terrible situation. It is already, but I don't even want to think about what that would have been like. [00:11:02] Kerry Newsome: Yes. You're right. I think the industry and the manufacturing side of things was something that the government was particularly concerned about because some of those places have workers of tens of thousands. I hear also that for their safety, they put together makeshift tents and things like that to actually keep them on the premises to try and get them vaccinated. Slowly but surely, I think that's a strong government push, or that's what I'm hearing anyway, so that the wheels of the engine of the country can keep turning. [00:11:45] Michael Tatarski: Yes. This was initially in the north because of this outbreak, we've almost forgotten it at this point, it first exploded into a few northern provinces way back in May, especially a couple next to Hanoi with a lot of Samsung factories and other major electronics manufacturers. Yes, they kind of started this. Not kind of, they did start this three on the spot system or also, some people call it, a bubble where factories would set up, yes, living quarters like tents and spare warehouses or whatever so that employees could live, work and also eat on-site without leaving. Then, they also did that down here, especially in Binh Duong and Dong Nai, which are huge industrial hubs. Yes, the idea was to keep manufacturing going. That worked for some places, but it didn't work for a lot. If a case got into a factory, that's like the perfect setting for Delta to spread. Hundreds or thousands of people close together. Also, it's expensive, the house. A lot of them would read half capacity or something. Still, if you need to feed 300 people three meals a day and also house them in addition to maintaining operations. That's a lot of money. [00:13:03] Kerry Newsome: Yes. Absolutely. [00:13:04] Michael Tatarski: I know factories that tried it and gave up. Others just didn't even try to do it because they knew it was going to be too difficult. Some of that is relaxing now because other provinces are also starting to come out of lockdown as well. Yes, it was an interesting system, worked for some, didn't work for others. [chuckles] Again, I think they obviously couldn't just shut everything down because that would have been economically disastrous. [music] [00:13:34] Kerry Newsome: It also took a serious toll on the ex-pat population for a number of reasons around getting access to the vaccine or getting the vaccine or trying to get flights out. I know several Australians that have cost them much more than you would normally pay to actually get out and get back. Then, they were stuck in the lockdown so severely in Saigon that literally they had to get a PCR test to get on the plane. Then, they couldn't get past the police that had cordoned off the area to get them through. Then, they were worried about how they're going to get a Grab car or whatever to the actual airport. It's been quite stressful, I think, on lots of levels for the general population. [00:14:28] Michael Tatarski: Yes. I know a lot of people who left, some permanently, some temporarily. My partner is American. We talked about it a lot. We have dogs. We would have wanted to bring them with us. It's really difficult to bring them into the US. It takes a few months of paperwork. We stayed. Granted, the US has gone downhill again. When it looked like things were getting better there, there was a lot of appeal, especially in the early days of this outbreak when the vaccine was almost not existed. National rates nationally are still extremely low. It's only around 8% of the entire country is fully vaccinated. Here in Ho Chi Minh City, they've funneled supply here because of the outbreak. It's just such an important economic and population center. That's a lot better. I'm fully vaccinated luckily. That fear of not being vaccinated has waned. Certainly, a lot of people left. If you could get out and go somewhere more comfortable, then it definitely made sense. [00:15:32] Kerry Newsome: Sure. Just leading into now the weekend talk from the government of Vietnam about lessening the restrictions coming up to 1st October. [music] [00:15:53] Kerry Newsome: For us, sitting in the travel industry and watching from the grandstands, we see this as a positive sign. We'll get on to talk about Phu Quoc in a bit. How do you see 1st October restrictions lessening? What will it mean for you? [00:16:14] Michael Tatarski: Well, here in Ho Chi Minh City, much to my surprise, it seems like it's going to mean a lot. I've been given how conservative the restrictions have been thus far. I wasn't expecting anything too dramatic. It's not confirmed yet. They're still working on the final policy. It looks like for Ho Chi Minh City, they're going to allow if you're fully or partially vaccinated, or if you've recovered from COVID. Within the last six weeks, I think, you'll basically be able to move around the city as you wish. They're removing checkpoints in between districts and neighborhoods. You can go back to supermarkets, convenience stores. You can get a haircut. It sounds like you'll be able to exercise outside in quite large numbers if everyone is vaccinated. That really surprises me. [00:17:01] Kerry Newsome: Affecting all districts? [00:17:02] Michael Tatarski: Yes. I think there will still be some areas. Red zones are still going to be an issue potentially. As far as I know, this is city-wide. Weddings and funerals can happen again with set capacity. A lot of businesses will still be closed like no in-person dining, no cinemas, no karaoke, no massage, parlors, that kind of thing. [00:17:25] Kerry Newsome: No bars. [00:17:26] Michael Tatarski: Yes, no bars. I think it also says street vendors are still going to be banned. That's a real shame. Again, those people are among the most impacted [crosstalk] [00:17:35] Kerry Newsome: Markets? [00:17:37] Michael Tatarski: I think markets are supposed to reopen as well, but a lot of it is going to be probably just like see what the regulation is. Then, there's been a lot of regulations during this lockdown that have been really unclear initially. Then, they gradually get clarified. I'm very excited to be able to exercise out. I'm a pretty avid cyclist. I've got an indoor trainer luckily, but that's not the same as riding outside. [00:18:06] Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. [00:18:07] Michael Tatarski: Yes. It looks like a lot could change. Of course, the economic damage is still going to be immense. Fully vaccinated rates for the city are still relatively low. A lot of businesses are still-- it's still going to be expensive to go back to work. Food, ingredient prices are high because there's been a lot of shipping issues between provinces. [00:18:26] Kerry Newsome: Yes. I was going to ask about that because food supply-- [00:18:27] Michael Tatarski: Also as we said, a lot of people left. We don't even know how many people left. Presumably, many tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands. A lot of those individuals are the labor force of the city. Some of them can't come back yet because there are still travel restrictions or a lot might not want to. Unless they have a guaranteed job, maybe they would. It's going to be pretty interesting to see. Also, what business has survived? Being closed for three, four, five months. Not everyone obviously has the liquidity to just sit there with no business for that amount of time. [00:19:09] Kerry Newsome: Yes, absolutely. I'll be interested to just see what the hotel industry does. All of those empty hotels with hotel staff, did those hotel staffs go back home, as I said, to those rural areas and wait it out? Are they going to have the manpower to put back into it? [00:19:33] Michael Tatarski: Sure. Well, of course, even before this, obviously, as you know, there was no international tourism anyway. Certainly, the hotel is more focused on the international market. Everyone had to pivot by this point to some extent. This was obviously just more pain on top of that. [music] [00:19:54] Michael Tatarski: For travel, honestly, it's going to be tough. I see that as being pretty low down the totem pole of priorities, certainly for here. We'll get to this, the discussions of Phu Quoc doing some sort of opening for internationally. I'm sure there are closed doors discussions. Publicly, there's still no discussion whatsoever presuming any normal inbound, international flights whether for business or even just citizens wanting to return to the country. It's still these, sometimes, government-arranged repatriation flights although those haven't happened in a while or these charter flights where it's everything's booked and approved in advance. It's really expensive. You have to do quarantine. In terms of travel, it still seems like that's going to be a long, long ways off. Domestic travel is going to be an issue as well just because the rest of the country is so unvaccinated, not by choice because [crosstalk] [00:20:53] Kerry Newsome: Yes, that's what I was going to say. [00:20:57] Michael Tatarski: There's definitely a push from domestic travel companies and domestic airlines and domestic hotels because everyone's flat on their back right now financially. They're really pushing to try to get some sort of green pass system set up for domestic travel which would help. That's, again, only 8% of the population right now. It's a pretty limited pool to work with. Yes. Just getting domestic because what happens if you're vaccinated, you can still be carrying the virus? What happens if a group of vaccinated visitors from Ho Chi Minh City go to Lao Cai province or something where it's much less vaccinated. Then, the outbreak starts there. Obviously, that's what officials are thinking about. This reopening is-- it's going to be really interesting to see what happens because presumably, cases here in the city will rise when they reopen just because there's going to be more interaction between people. How do they react to that? It's interesting watching Singapore, which is very heavily vaccinated now. They're going back into some restrictions with their cases increasing. I don't know. We have to see. There's been a lot of talks recently about living with the virus. We don't know what that's going to mean in practice. There will be cases. What happens when that does happen? [music] [00:22:20] Kerry Newsome: If I talk to people in the UK and some parts of Europe that are vagrantly traveling and getting about the world, they're still getting thousands of cases a day. [00:22:33] Michael Tatarski: Sure, sure. [00:22:34] Kerry Newsome: Freedom day for them wasn't freedom from the actual virus. It was just freedom to move around and take the risk. I was talking to one journalist the other day. He was saying that it doesn't even appear in the news in the UK anymore. They don't publish all the numbers, the caseload, or anything. He said, "Everything from my daughter's birthday party where someone rang us up afterward and said, "Oh, look. One kid tested positive after the party." We don't think it's going to be a problem. She's going to get a bit of a sniffle." They're just calling it a bad flu rather than a deadly disease now. I wonder whether or not in Australia is heading in the same direction, whether or not we'll see the same things because you've got major airlines that are sitting around, going broke if we don't get the domestic travel going again in Vietnam. I think Vietnam will need to test it internally to see how it goes before there's any sign of international. It's got to start somewhere. You're going to be coming up to the wet season in the north and the cold in January, February. These next three to six months are going to be really interesting to see. [00:24:11] Michael Tatarski: Yes. It's going to be so regionally varied even within Vietnam because we're still averaging around 5,000 cases a day. The number of severe cases and deaths has dropped. Those are the really key indicators. By pure numbers, we're still having a ton of cases. I think most days, the city accounts for over half of all cases in the country, that detected cases. We don't always know what testing is going on in all the provinces. We're going to be living with quote "the virus" unquote, with that many cases. Hanoi had no cases in the last 24 hours. If they were to get to 5,000 cases, that would be unthinkable compared to where they're at right now. We don't even know what it's going to be like from region to region within the country. [00:24:55] Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. It may mean that the travel regions will stay within-- In other words, you might fly from Hanoi to Đồng Hới or somewhere like that, but you won't go any further south right, or you might fly to Danang and stay in central and north. [music] [00:25:24] Kerry Newsome: I don't know. Is there a big appetite for travel by people in Saigon? Do people want to get back out there and have a holiday? [00:25:37] Michael Tatarski: Yes. People in my social circles certainly do. I'm pretty on the fence about it for the foreseeable future. Not that I'm worried about getting sick particularly, but just knowing that other provinces are far less vaccinated. Yes, certainly. I don't know about the average person. Of course, there's got to be some level of pent-up demand. We had a national holiday at the start of the month that we couldn't do anything for it. We have a limited number of national holidays. Usually, when they happen, people like to do some sort of-- even if it's just going to [unintelligible 00:26:18] from Ho Chi Minh City, just a couple hours away, something to get out of the city. Or if you're in Hanoi, the same thing. People aren't able to do that. There definitely will be some pent-up to me. Also, a lot of people are just going to want to go see their family. [music] [00:26:38] Kerry Newsome: They're painting Phu Quoc island as the sandbox for Vietnam. I've had lots of different interviews with a range of different people. There's really a mixed bag on whether or not it's going to take off. It's already been pushed back from October to November. What I know about the island, it's about 160,000 people. I've only been twice for very short visits. Its medical situation is not expansive. I don't know. Do you think it's going to come off? [00:27:23] Michael Tatarski: At this point, I think it will happen simply because they say it's going to happen. The prime minister himself has given it the green light. I think it has to happen just because the highest levels of government have said, "We need this. This is going to be a thing." This is not my area of expertise. I can't see it being a huge success. I've seen some articles where they say they're expecting tens of thousands of visitors a month. I don't know if that includes domestic because then maybe. I can't see this having a huge amount of appeal for a lot of international visitors having to do pay for a charter flight. I think the system is largely you just stay at the resort that you go to and don't leave. [00:28:10] Kerry Newsome: Yes. That's right. [00:28:12] Michael Tatarski: Of course, for some people, that kind of trip may have appeal, but I think a lot of westerners who come to Vietnam wants to see some of the countries as well or at least-- even if it's a tacky night market tour or something like that, is at least getting you out of the resort and eating some semblance of local food. If you can't do any of that, I don't really know who's going to be jumping out, really wanted to do that. Also, some of this seems to be pitched as a huge benefit for the local economy. If you're just staying at, whatever, [unintelligible 00:28:47] for seven days, that's not-- That'll help the people working for the resort, but the local economy is not really going to get much of a boost from that at all. [00:28:57] Kerry Newsome: Yes. It's a difficult one. I think it's a test case that they want to exercise to just see the manpower handling. I heard some numbers posed that might start at maybe 2,000 to 3,000 coming in. Russia is a country, in particular, that is very keen on the island and fancy island, very popular. It's got great water sports with sailing and diving and things like that. The Vinpearl group is very big there. It's got a mini Venice with cable cars. It's nothing like Vietnam. [00:29:46] Michael Tatarski: No. [00:29:48] Kerry Newsome: It's out there. As you say, I think because the prime minister has put that out there, I think it's probably going to happen in a fashion. How well or how successful it is? It's time to come. I think there is an aim for the country to try and get on top of things for Tet because as you know, at Tet, the country just moves around in big numbers because they're all going home. I can see that there'll be a really big push. That's February. What have we got? October, November, December, January. We've got five months to for Vietnam to-- [00:30:35] Michael Tatarski: Yes. Tet's obviously going to be huge. Tet, this year or earlier this year, there were a couple of small flare-ups happening at the time. A lot of people still traveled, but a lot of people actually canceled their trips. If somebody goes two years without being able to do something for Tet, that's going to be a really big deal. Again, I don't mean, even traveling for fun, that's one time of the year that lots of families get together, multiple generations. It's really, really important. Yes, it's like missing Christmas or something like that in the West. [music] [00:31:16] Michael Tatarski: Yes. Phu Quoc is interesting. You can definitely tell there's something of a regional-- arms race isn't a good phrase but just like tourism competition. Vietnam, Indonesia, everybody is now saying that Thailand has the Phuket Sandbox, which, I don't follow closely, but I believe, has been a bit of a mixed bag in terms of [crosstalk] [00:31:36] Kerry Newsome: It hasn't gone well either. Yes, exactly. [00:31:39] Michael Tatarski: But they all want to try. You see Bali, name a lot as well. I'm sure there are other places that I'm missing. Nobody wants to be last to get something like that off the ground I guess even if it has a pretty minimal impact. Yes. Obviously, the main reason Phu Quoc was pushed back is because, again, vaccine supply and who knows if they'll be able to get there by November. You could definitely see that being pushed again. I do see it happening again just because there's been so much high-level discussion. Now, there's talk of Khanh Hoa province [unintelligible 00:32:12] is also starting to talk about this as well, similar coming in on shutter flights and just staying sequestered at a resort. You mentioned Russia. I guess that does make sense as a market because I think that's a-- probably has a lot of appeals go to the beach for seven days and just sit in one place. [chuckles] Again, that can certainly be appealing, but a lot of people are also going to be put off by, you know what I mean, I can't leave the resort even to have a meal outside or something like that. Why would I spend, whatever, thousands of dollars [crosstalk]-- [00:32:46] Kerry Newsome: And not be able to go to the mainland to see the rest of Vietnam. The rest of Vietnam [unintelligible 00:32:54] . Yes. [00:32:54] Michael Tatarski: Yes. Something will definitely happen. I will be curious to see what they do with domestic tourism at the same time. Yes, Phu Quoc-- two of the most powerful domestic tourism real estate companies have huge properties there as you mentioned. I'm sure they're pushing really hard because they have thousands of rooms that have been sitting empty. [music] [00:33:18] Kerry Newsome: I have a feeling that Hoi An and Danang will also find themselves wanting to trial something because the Old Town is just a ghost town at the moment. [00:33:28] Michael Tatarski: Yes. I like Danang a lot. It's an important, domestic tourism destination, but has really gotten big, I know, with Korean visitors and probably Japanese visitors as well in recent years so that that would make sense for them to want to try something similar as well. If they stick with the resort set up, there's a ton of huge resorts there so that that could work. Again, who's going to want to-- [chuckles] I can see them targeting individual-- [chuckles] I don't know, not to stereotype, but a lot of Koreans go to visit Danang to play golf. If it was like you can stay at their resort and just play golf and that's it. I'm sure a lot of people probably go for that actually. It's the pretty limited economic impact on the broader city that needs to be considered. [00:34:19] Kerry Newsome: Yes. It might be dolly steps in the whole country opening up. It might be these little pockets of experiences that-- [00:34:33] Michael Tatarski: I can't really see just your average tourist being able to get on a plane, a normal flight to Vietnam, and then being able to travel as they please until the second half of 2022, maybe later in that time period. Again, we don't even know when people are going to be able to come back just to live here or to do business here. Yes, it's going to be a while I would think. [music] [00:35:02] Kerry Newsome: You answered my last question, Michael. It was going to be [laughs] when do you think or you feel like Vietnam will be open to-- because I used to spend two or three months a year in Vietnam and in various times during the year. I was there in March. I got out just in time before Australia shut the doors. I haven't been back since 2020. It's very difficult. As you say, it's going to be a serious consideration for highly vaccinated countries to consider coming to a low vaccinated country. Then, Vietnam, will they review their visa requirements? There could be a whole change in just what boxes you've got a tick- [00:35:57] Michael Tatarski: Yes. We don't know what-- [00:35:58] Kerry Newsome: -to get in. [00:36:00] Michael Tatarski: Yes. I think the government has said that they're aiming to fully vaccinate 70% of the population by March or April of next year. [00:36:11] Kerry Newsome: That's a big number. [00:36:12] Michael Tatarski: Yes, which is a long ways off. It's a lot of people. There's not really vaccine. There's some vaccine hesitancy. It's not like you have in the US or somewhere like that. I think if they have the supply, they should be able to hit those numbers, but-- [00:36:26] Kerry Newsome: It'll be getting to some of them in the rural areas will be the tough, tough ones. Yes. [00:36:30] Michael Tatarski: Yes. I don't think they're going to want anyone from elsewhere moving around the country freely before they at least said that. Of course, our understanding of the virus could change. The new variants could still break out for all we know. A lot can certainly happen. Given that timeline, I can't see any free travel happening until easily the second half of the next year. [00:36:59] Kerry Newsome: Well, that wasn't the best note to finish on. [laughter] [00:37:04] Michael Tatarski: Yes, unfortunately. [00:37:05] Kerry Newsome: But it might be the reality that we need to face in Vietnam at the moment. I certainly appreciate where you're sitting in the thick of it. When you're just going to be able to open up, take your dogs out and go for a run, it must be wonderful to be able to do that. I just think of all those restaurants and bars and just that the buzz of that city to be closed, just must be an eyesore. I just can't imagine it. I see the photo, just can't imagine it. [00:37:37] Michael Tatarski: Yes. Well, to be honest, I've only seen photos recently. I haven't left my neighborhood in almost three months. I think on Friday or early next week, I'll probably just do a long drive assuming that that is allowed a long drive around the city just to see what it looks like because there's a lot of places I haven't seen in months, which is quite strange to say out loud. [00:38:01] Kerry Newsome: Yes, sure. Look, Michael. I really appreciate you coming on the program and just great to get your insights into how things have been, where we're at and what the future holds for travelers. We do want to come back. It's a great country. There's so much to see and do. I think [crosstalk]-- Yes. We just want it to be a healthy country where it feels safe to do so. [00:38:29] Michael Tatarski: Yes. We're all hoping for that [chuckles] at this stage. [00:38:33] Kerry Newsome: Okay, Michael. Thanks again. [00:38:34] Michael Tatarski: Thank you. [00:38:36] Outro: Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What About Vietnam.

f159fcd5-c71b-4e09-8abf-9ef6f07a15f0Language tips in Vietnamese Learn "special dietary needs" Learn "special dietary requirements" in Vietnamese Episode 20 S3-20 Learn "special dietary needs" 00:00 / 11:57 What do you really need to know how to say in Vietnamese? That's a hard one to guess ahead of your visit I know, but if you have special dietary requirements you might like to save, download and print the transcript. In Episode 1 of this 3 part series, we start with greetings, because that’s where all polite conversations start. But, what’s the right word to politely summons a waiter? What About if you don’t eat or like spicy food? Do you have gluten free? Vegetarian? These are just some of the words we take for granted back home, but try saying them in Vietnamese when you really need to? Ha Dam is my guest and the girl helping us both speak Vietnamese when it is most needed. Check out this video she did with Hoiannow.com a few years ago (click right). In todays’ episode we cover the restaurant setting where you or your travelling companion is wanting to summons a waiter or needs to make some special food requests to safeguard themselves for health reasons. This is particularly important for children and those that experience allergic reactions. NOTE: This is not to be used as a training tool to learn how to speak Vietnamese. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript