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f984edd2-9297-48d7-bb3c-1b5898f9e2ddThe big Decision. A packaged tour or DIY What About Vietnam – S1-E8 The big decision: Join a Packaged Group Tour or DIY? – Which Suits You Best? Kerry Newsome :Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. My name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host. And for today, I'm going to be your host and your only guest speaker as I've got a subject I want to take on and kind of tackle myself and share my thoughts with you as I've wanted to put a show together about this subject for quite some time and I think or I hope it's going to be helpful to you in your trip planning and your thoughts around how you want to experience Vietnam. So the subject I want to talk to you about fits in with series one. When I started the podcast back in 2020 really as a COVID baby I wanted to begin the series I mean at that time I actually didn't know how many series I would do but I certainly wanted series one to be pretty much the series that holds episodes, in helping people design or decide how they want to experience Vietnam. Because that makes a big difference to your takeaway, to what you get out of Vietnam, in my opinion. and I've had a lot to do with putting plans together and working with companies who do group tours etc over the last you know 14 or so years. So I think I've got a fair bit to share with you today and I hope so in the way that I can deliver it so that you can decide for yourself which is the best way to go. So, this is going to sit in Series One and we're going to talk to you today about the how is the best way to experience Vietnam. Is it via a group tour that you participate? And I think that's one category and that's one category I'm going to break down and talk to you about the pros and cons. And then there is the Individual Traveller. In some circles in the industry we call that the FIT Traveller, Free Independent Traveller. And in that category there's to me two types. One, you're the do-it-yourself person where you take on the whole job, the whole conception, the whole planning, the whole booking. You do all the bookings, whether they're direct or whether they're online or whatever. Or there's the individual tour situation where you want to have control over what you want to do, but you want to book it privately. and you want to do that with a travel agent or a travel advisor, someone who really knows the lay of the land and can book everything for you through a destination company or tour operator that can facilitate all that for you. But it's private and it's personal to your budget, your preferences. that's what today's going to be about. I just want you to sit back, let me be the person to kind of feed your thoughts, feed you some information to help you make some decisions. And sometimes these decisions are not made just alone, they're made with a partner, with your family, with a group. You know, you might be sitting around a dinner table and everybody says, hey, let's all go to Vietnam. You know, and I want this show to be fuel for you to help make the wisest decision because It's a real mixed bag as far as feedback from trips in the sense that some people go on a set tour and come back and they're just exhausted. You know, they just like Vietnam just went by in a flash and they don't really come away with that. Yeah, I really want to go back there thing. And then there's some people go oh I should have done this, I really should have got more advice, it was probably not the best time of year to go, I would have liked to have known about these activities. And you know that do-it-yourself person just couldn't deal with the overwhelming swell of information to try and find the best things. to do and best ways to book it, etc. Had they gone to an advisor or a travel agent, that travel agent might have been able to help them to do that. Okay, so let's talk about group tours. Now, my involvement with people who have been on group tours has been extensive. I've also been involved with creating and curating tours for companies to on sale. So over the last 14 years I can really put my hand on my heart and say to you I've had a lot to do with group tours to understand the psychology behind them, the methodology behind them, the processes and you know some of the pros and cons. And one of the pros for group tours that just hits you like right off the bat is probably the sense of connectivity and the ability to meet people, like-minded people who want to visit the country. So, if you would like to go on a holiday where you get to meet people, travel with them extensively for the trip and do it in a set period of time, then group tours might be just the perfect thing for you. One of the things to add to that would be that group tours are almost always strictly run on set dates. So, you know, as long as you're happy to fit into the dates that they're operating, once again, that's perfect for you; they always include you know set time periods. So you're going to see advertisements for you know 12 days in Vietnam and they will probably run those twice a month or three times a month on set dates. As you know the plan, you will be able to plan in that set date on that set budget for those periods of time and those places listed in the tour program. So, for the group option, you have to kind of be a person that you really want to go and you want to be with people and you want to do it the way the tour operator has designed it. and you don't really want to fashion your own kind of experiences out of it. You really like the idea that the tour company that you're going to book with has pre-organized everything from your flights to your accommodation to your activities to literally everything. You know what your budget is, you know what you've paid for, what your inclusions are going to be. So, usually in that set, the only thing you're probably going to think about is the occasional free day that you have and, you know, how you might like to fill in that. And you're also going to, you know, have very limited need for any extra spending other than maybe some souvenirs and some eating, etc. So like it's all there for you and that's very, very attractive for people. And when I talk to people who've done a group tour, It's a real mixed bag about people's enjoyment factor or the feedback that I get from people. And I've even participated as a mystery traveler on some tours, et cetera, so that I can gauge how well the tour is going, whether people wanted to do something differently. There's some people saying, hey, this was really great. They really should promote this as something really special. So, I think the thing that I get mostly from group tours that worries me is that they go, yeah, well, we went to Vietnam and yeah, well, you know, we're done. And I go, well, so would you like to go back? Is there anything? Oh, you know, maybe, I don't know. We probably could have had some more time in Hoi An. We didn't get to kind of further northern regions of Vietnam. Probably would have liked to add in the Sa Pa part. Yeah, could have done without this. But they're not jumping out of their skins to go back. The biggest thing that… And I see this a lot, is they're generally exhausted. Their opinion of Vietnam is a little bit on a flash card. You know, eight days to see a whole country. I don't know, it'd be like me saying, you know, you've got eight days to see all of Italy. Good luck with that. So, from the person who is willing to maybe use it as a bit of a reconnaissance situation, I definitely would think it would be the go. But getting back to the original of, hey, you just want to see Vietnam in a group situation where everything is organized and you want to keep it within a minimum budget, there is tons out there. They are generally cookie-cutter kind of trips that will include the major destinations. So that's, you know, from top it'll be Hanoi, central it will be Hoi An or Da Nang or both, and then going south it will be Saigon, Mekong Delta. And there will be traditional spots. You can choose tours that offer small groups to large groups. And once again, depending on where you're coming from, if you're coming from the Northern Hemisphere, you've got to add in a couple of days of travel to get to Vietnam. you know you're going to be able to manage your time and fit a lot in in it in that space of time. So it's all going to be pre-planned for you, you don't have to search, you don't have to research, you don't have to book other things or add-ons, you just need to get there, pick up the travel manager and the tour operator as he will then take it over from the get-go right through to the finish. Now, I just want to add to this when we're talking about groups that A couple of things that you want to be a little bit aware of is the structure. And one aspect of the structure of these tours is that it's all predestined, it's all pre-planned. There's no changes or revisions to that unless, you know, weather or something happens, et cetera, and it has to be rearranged. But generally they are set plans and you're going to be given a complete itinerary which is full of everything and all the information that you need to do those. and they're also done in strict time plans. So no matter whether or not you've had a big night out the previous night or you are tired or whatever you need to be the kind of person that works well with stringent timings. So, when you need to be out the front to meet the bus or you need to have your bags ready for the bus the next day, then you certainly are suitable for this type of tour. If you're not however and you'd rather luxuriate over your free breakfast that you know would come with your hotel possibly, then you know you're going to struggle. You're going to struggle with the structure and the stringent time frames because you can't think as an independent. You can't think as you know just what you'd like to do because you have to think as part of that group. You are traveling with a group with a group goal and you know whether or not you'd like to do something different in that city, would mean you having to say to the tour operator I do not wish to participate in today's activity and they would kind of have to sign you off to say okay. But you would not get any refund or anything like that for denying those activities for the day as you had pre-purchased them. But it would enable you to you know go off and do your own thing. And I've kind of stressed this to some people who've done group tours and have felt like, you know, they were a little bit like they were back in school and rounded up and having to, you know, be here at this time and back by this time and all this kind of thing. It really started to bug them. And, you know, they then said, you know, we had to do it. And I went, no, you didn't actually. You could have asked the tour operator for, you know, a leave of absence, be naughty, be the one that says no I don't really want to do that activity that's not an activity that is something that I'm really keen on but you know I'm happy for the rest of the group to go and I'll meet you back at five o'clock or whenever the the one is that you're happy to start again. So, the key things for groups and certainly price is another issue because the company is usually able to negotiate really good rates. and you're going to get you know your flights and your accommodation and all wrapped up together with guides and transfers and things like that. You're usually going to get that at a pretty good price because they're buying it on volume and they're buying it on structure and reliability of facilitating those tours. And then you're going to be buying that group on the brand. What do you know about that brand for the kind of travelers that they are attracting to their tour company, to their experiences? Some companies cater to a younger audience, some cater to a more mature audience, some cater to different budgets, different lengths of stays and different accommodation levels. You know, are you a three-star traveller, a four-star traveller or a five-star traveller? Do you travel alone or will you be traveling with someone so that you can share the accommodation and share the twin share? So there's all these kind of things that you will get from group travel. And I honestly I want you to think about that very carefully in the sense that if you know on your pros and your cons columns there's more pros because you know that's just where you're at in life, that's just where how you want to do it. You know you did a group tour to Morocco or you did a group tour to Italy or you're a Contiki lover and you love those group tours and the activities and the joys and fun of meeting a whole group of people on the buses and things like that. You know it's definitely the go but if you struggle as I said with the busyness, the structure, the stringency around time slots and the pace of it is just too too stringent that you're not going to get to kind of just muse a little bit, relax a little bit, then maybe the group tour is not for you. And while people say yeah but you know I want to buy it because you know I'm not going to be able to get that tour for that price. Well that bit you don't know about until you try and that's where the independent and the individual travel options come in. where you get to plan your own trip and devise the trip that you want and, you know, maybe pick some of those places that are in the group tours, maybe not all of them, but maybe spend longer periods of time in some places than others, maybe do different things or maybe do nothing. Maybe do Nothing. Plan in nothing. Lie by the pool. Walk the beach. Have a long coffee in a coffee shop and just sit by and people watch. I think the private or the do-it-yourself traveler is probably the space I've had more to do certainly in the last couple of years. As I said, prior to that, I was more working with companies and helping them design some of these group tours. But, you know, I've found more joy with working with people to get what they want in the do-it-yourself space, in the individual traveler space. However, in saying that it takes some considerations and I want to put a bit of a caveat here in saying that you know if you're confident in doing things online sure you can do it all yourself but you're going to take some risks in the sense of you're depending on the research quality of the networks that you're doing research on to get the right information. And if you feel you aren't able to do that, well, go for it. The other option then is to use a private travel agent where they're going to organize a private tour. Now, when I say private tours, I mean that this tour is going to be just for you, you and your travelling companion or your family or whatever. You're not going to be on a public group tour. You're not going to be joining a group. There's going to be one person meeting you at the airport and taking you in a private car and that's going to be a transfer. Not a bus, not a sign up that says you know the brand and the brand group is to meet on pillar 10 and you're all going to go off together and you're going to follow the flag which is what a group tour does. No, no, no. In a private situation you're going to have a person yes will have your name on it but you'll be in a private car. And you know for some of us that sounds like a bit luxurious but in Vietnam it's amazing you can get some really nice luxuries but not have it break the bank and you can't self-drive in Vietnam so you're not going to see a whole heap of companies offering cars and car hire because that's just not available to you in Vietnam. You can however hire a driver and the driver will be driving a beautiful air-conditioned, very new car. But you're not going to get that advantage of joining a group of people immediately. you're going to have to make an effort at the places that you are visiting to meet other travelers, you know, kind of as part of your travel. The advantage of having someone help you organize this and provide you insights is that if you relate to that person and you feel confident with that travel agent, you know, you're going to be able to form a relationship with them. And you know the important factor that this person has to be able to give you is confidence, that they know what they're talking about, that they have been there, touched that or they know somebody that has. If they don't know they're going to find out for you because the care factor is where the differentiator is, is because this travel agent wants to give you a private tour and a private experience of Vietnam, but in a way that you're going to enjoy it at your own pace and to include the kinds of things that you want to do. Now for me, know I don't want to go to Saigon and then go out to the Cu Chi Tunnels; when I'm there it's too hot and the thought of me going underground touching snakes or you know experiencing any of that kind of fun stuff that other people think is fun is just not on my radar. I don't want to do that. But if that's included in the group tour, that's what the group does. So you're obliged to do it. You don't have to, as I mentioned, but you can reallocate your time to do something different. You know, I might choose to go and find, you know, a crazy cafe that I heard about, you know, out in the suburbs. Or I might want to check out a place that teaches you how to make your own perfume. as in design your own perfume by different scents and make up a bottle to take home. That's just something I might want to do or I might want to go and get pampered or I might want to go and try a Michelin restaurant. That's kind of some of the things that I want to do in Saigon. Or I might want to do a tuk-tuk tour. Or I might want to go on the back of a Vespa and check out all the street food with the guidance of a tour operator that runs around on Vespas. So I want the individuality, I want the personality that I have with my group, with my family, with whoever I'm traveling with to be the determinate of what I experience. So for you, when you're thinking about your private tour, You know, all of these things can get priced and put together in a package, which is kind of all wrapped up. So it's your transfers, your airfares, your accommodation. And that would be spoken about with you, tailored to the kind of hotel and where you want that hotel to be. Do you care whether or not it's far away from, you know, anything or would you like it in walking distance to the old town or be in District 1 or, you know, have certain views or do you want it to include some wellness aspects to it? You know, all of these things can get discussed and plugged in and form the part of your travel experience that you want to have. an individual. It can still as I said get wrapped up into a package so it's a price right at you know the end which is all-inclusive a bit like a group tour but this one is tailored to you. This is one where you have entrusted your your experience to the travel agent that is advising you or you've trusted yourself and your own instincts to know no this is the way I want to do it, somebody's told me about this place they said it's good, you're going on good airlines so you're trusting those airline networks and you can book that online And you feel confident that in the stay that you've decided on, the dates that you've chosen, that you've got yourself covered as an individual traveler and traveling on your own or in your own party. So the reason I wanted to talk about these two is because of the outcomes from either of them. And where I've found the most joy will surprise you I think in the sense that While the group tours do offer, you know, that headache-free, stress-free, don't have to think, budget-minded traveler, there's not the real levels of joy that I hear about versus the person who has been an individual traveler and traveled in their own steam under the guise of a private travel agent or they've booked everything themselves. And I think there's a lot of logic to why the individual traveler gets more out of Vietnam in specified time slots like the 12 days or the 14 days. is because they've really thought about the kind of holiday they want to have and been able to match that to the trip design. You know, if you are a person who, sure, you want to experience a lot, but you've recognised that, you know, it's going to be December as the only time you can go and while you love hiking and you love all that, You know it's going to be too cold to do that in northern Vietnam so for this trip you're going to design it more in the south and you're going to do a different kind of things and maybe have an island hop to Phu Quoc in that because you recognize and you've got information to hand that's reliable to say, you know, it's just not going to be ideal for you to have that hiking experience and get the best out of the north on that trip. However, you might prefer to do another trip at another time of the year when it's going to be perfect to experiencing that. So you might, you know, come back in September the following year or in a couple of years time. And you can still tailor and make it to what you want to experience. I hope that in this episode I've been able to give you some thoughts to help you design your trip. I hope I've given you some thoughts about how you want to spend your time according to your own preferences, your own timing, your own pace and your own personality. Don't knock your own personality out of the park as far as designing your own holiday. It is a holiday. It's the time you get off in a year to go away. So, you know, even if it's, Kerry, can you find us a place where we can attend mass on a Sunday? We're going to be away two Sundays. Can you find us a good place? And the mass times? Yes, yes, I can. Yes, we can do that. Kerry, you know, we're traveling with three children and, you know, these are teenage girls. They're all into shopping. They're all into, you know, we went to Southeast Asia a couple of years ago. They're “pagoded” out. They want to hear about this vibrant city and this vibrant country and can you show us some of the great, real, trendy places for my teenage daughters to go in Saigon? Yeah, we can do that. I think, you know, trip planning is one of those things that people kind of gloss over as not having much value. But when you're traveling with people or, you know, you're trying to sell internally to, you know, your wife or your family members or your kids or whatever that, yes, we're going to go to Vietnam, we're going to have a great time. If you can get to plan it the way you want it to be you've got a much better chance of having a better outcome. You know people go back and forth to lots of countries and I can name Spain, Italy, Thailand because they've been able to generally in the past experience the country the way they wanted to. They were able to go to the country more as individuals, less as tours. I mean, if the tour into Vietnam is a small group tour and it's around a specific concept, I know some great people that do offer very specialized tours. You know, one group in particular that offers, and I'll put a link to it in the show notes, you know around food and textiles. Now that might be your thing. I know another group that does them as a writer so you can go and get writing skills and so might be that time of life where you want to get a bit creative and you want to do it in an environment that inspires creativity. You know this might be the kind of tool but it's because of your personality and because of your likes, desires and the things that you want to experience and you're matching that to Vietnam. Don't try and you know I think make Vietnam match you, you match yourself to Vietnam. You find the kind of experience and if you have to come back a couple of times well wahoo do it. You know I would rather you come back a couple of times to experience different levels of Vietnam rather than try and smash it down and tick that bucket list and go, yeah, we saw Vietnam, got it over and done with. Yeah, 12 days we were done. I don't know whether or not you would have got the full grasp of Vietnam according to its full scope on offering to you if you had done that. Sure, you would have got the glimpses, and you would have still seen the beautiful Halong Bay, and you would have got to have egg coffee in Hanoi. But there's so much to Vietnam. To me, unless you've got extensive time in that first visit, it's a lot to experience in one visit, and especially in limited time. Now, if you are wanting to get some more advice around different options or you've got some questions to ask, please reach out. You know where to go. Whataboutvietnam.com is the website where you might even be listening from because it is free, advert free. You can obviously find this on all your pod channels. But if you want to reach out, just reach out to me at whataboutvietnam@gmail.com . I'm happy to answer any questions and of course I'm happy to do the trip planning for you all inclusive and tailored to you. Happy traveling folks and I'll see you in Vietnam.

dd9c254b-bab3-4e64-b3ce-72319edc2c2cThe Alba Wellness Resort - a great destination What About Vietnam - S3-23 Vietnam - Your next Wellness destination Kerry Newsome: 00:35 Xin Chào and welcome to “What About Vietnam Travel Podcast”. One of the questions that comes up quite a bit is, "Is Vietnam a wellness destination?" Now in the past, and I'm talking prior to COVID, this would have been a bit hard for me to answer. As we all know, wellness is many things to many people, and I have covered this off in other shows. However, in the past two years, while the country has been locked away from international tourism, there does seem to be a significant shift to wellness in Vietnam. And my guest today is a good example of someone spearheading that trend. 01:17 Hylton Lipkin is my guest, and he is the general manager for Alba Wellness Valley located in central Vietnam. I was keen to talk to Hylton as he's really passionate about wellness and comes to the show with some real depth of experience in this area. Born in South Africa, he's traveled and lived in many countries around the globe. His career started off as an International Fitness Presenter. And from there he moved to the spa industry. And that ultimately then connected neatly with his entrance into hospitality. 01:53 He is also the World Wellness Weekend Ambassador for Vietnam and is really big on trying to promote wellness and happiness throughout Vietnam and the world. He's a very entertaining guest, and he has some real home truths to share about the growth of this type of travel in Vietnam, and how developers are now directing their attention to better ways to save the environment and bring health and wellness to people during their stays in Vietnam. I think for people who are looking for a new and interesting wellness destination, one that offers beautiful culture, people, nature, quality food and sustainable practices; designed to preserve the environment. You're going to get a lot out of this show. Please welcome Hylton to the program. Kerry Newsome: 02:54 Hylton, welcome to the What About Vietnam Podcast, lovely to have you on the show. Hylton Lipkin: 03:00 It's an honor to be here. Thank you very much. Kerry Newsome: 03:03 Fabulous! Hylton, when we started to do a deep dive into your history and obviously, your love of Vietnam. I mean, you've lived in many countries around the world. What was it about Vietnam that first captured your heart and keeps you there? Hylton Lipkin: 03:25 To tell you the real version or the poetic version. Kerry Newsome: 03:28 [laughter] Whichever you prefer. Hylton Lipkin: 03:32 I can go into detail about beautiful meandering rice fields and mountains and beautiful conical hats and beautiful scenery in Vietnam. But the reality is I got offered a job. And that's what brought me to Vietnam. Somehow, for some strange reason the jobs that I've had over the couple of postures have been kind of in a straight line. I started off in Thailand, in Asia, actually in India, then kind of went to Thailand, and kind of went to Cambodia, then to Laos, and then to Vietnam. 04:03 So, for some strange reason. It's kind of in a straight line across Asia. But the honest reply is I got offered a job in Vietnam and I took the opportunity, and that's what brought me to Vietnam. And to answer your second question, what keeps me here, is: I love the place. I love my work, but it's still my job. Especially over the last two years. No one is really looking to jump ship and go to a new opportunity. But I love what I do. So, I'm still in Vietnam because I have my job in Vietnam. I enjoy what I do. But I came to Vietnam because I got offered a job. I love the place is beautiful. Kerry Newsome: 04:40 And you know what better thing in life to have, other than a job that you love, also in a country that you have fallen for. So, I think that's the pièce de résistance. So good for you. As an international fitness presenter, I'd like to know just a little bit more about that, and maybe how you've applied that knowledge and that background experience, into your job and into your role into in Vietnam. Hylton Lipkin: 05:17 Yes, I've always been involved in fitness, I've always been very interested in fitness. And I started my fitness career as a presenter when I was living in South Africa, where I was born. And I traveled immensely around the world presenting fitness programs and fitness education programs and working with different associations and groups all over the world. Nothing to do with hospitality, nothing to do with spas. But that was definitely a fantastic grounding and routing towards the fitness industry. Cutting a long story short, I landed up working in Hong Kong a couple of times at a fitness convention, which was mixed with the spa, they call it a spa and wellness convention in Hong Kong. And I kind of got introduced into the spa world from there. Another long story short, I got offered a job by a spa company, you may have heard of them, Mandara Spa, coming out of Asia, and now actually run by the American counterparts, Steiner. 06:24 And, yes, that kind of introduced me to the hospitality and spa industry. So, I worked for them for a couple of years. And that took me to a couple of countries around the world again, and then spa industry, linked to hospitality industry. And then, you know, again, long story short, I became a general manager of a hotel, a couple of hotels. And then of course, with my wellness background. And today, wellness being quite a big, important part of hospitality, it really fits pretty well, at least, I think it fits pretty well. And I know that speaking to investors, or speaking to regional managers, or directors or CEOs, they don't always understand the value of a fitness center, versus a beautiful expensive bottle of wine on the table. And I think there's a big mix coming towards that now. So, I think that I'm not saying, I'm the best, that I'm not saying I'm fantastic. But I think my background in wellness and going through this whole channel that I explained to you can definitely help me see the value of a fitness center versus a very expensive bottle of wine. Don't get me wrong, a beautiful bottle of wine, expensive bottle of wine is great. But the fitness element in terms of hospitality is actually becoming more and more important. Kerry Newsome: 07:42 Hylton, what I'm keen to explore with you, and I'm sure you've done this in your role, and in talking to many other operators in Vietnam, is: Vietnam hasn't been typically known as a wellness destination. I'm, I'm sitting here in Australia. And over the years, probably Bali would have been the first pick for a wellness destination. But over the few years, the couple of years now that I've been doing the podcast and talking to more people in wellness, I can see a definite shift in the landscape across hotels, I can see a shift in what people are wanting to present within their packages. They wanting to include some elements of that. So, tell us a little bit about how you think Vietnam is shaping up as a wellness destination. Hylton Lipkin: 08:44 I think first and foremost what you mentioned back there in terms of wellness. And the big question is wellness is different things to different people. It's very important that people first define what they consider to be wellness, either: · From a traveler’s perspective. · From an operator's perspective. · From a government’s perspective, or even obviously, from an operator's perspective. But yes, 100% people were locked up at home for quite some time, a fair amount of frustration. We won't go into that, because there's a gazillion podcasts out there about COVID and being stuck at home. I think, yes, everyone has woken up to this wellness idea. It's a diverse idea because it has many different aspects towards what it actually is and what it can bring to different people. But answering your question directly Vietnam; yes, has a very big percentage of gross domestic income from hospitality. We know that and they are every week every month a new area developing, and in Vietnam, they tend to go rather fast. They discover a nice town and a nice beach and before you know it, there's 20 Hotels going up there and then another 20 operators coming in, which has its positives and its negatives. But it's very important for the country. So yes. If we just speak about Vietnam today, there is a waking up towards wellness. 10:13 Now, having a spa treatment and eating salad is wellness, to a certain degree. Is a kind of intensity wellness? Is it something that's going to change people's life? To a certain degree? Yes, if we go back to expensive bottle of wine, you can go to a hotel, anywhere in the country, have an expensive bottle of wine, and eat your red meat or whatever it might be. It's still fantastic. And it's a great experience. Now, if you do R&R, if you're going and switching off a no mobile phone and relaxing and recharging, that's definitely wellness, you're going on holiday to switch off and come back recharged. So that is wellness to a certain degree. But of course, we tried to go a little bit deeper than that and say, "Okay, well then take away the alcohol, take away the red meat, and actually cleanse yourself, go there and learn how to eat correctly, but at the same time, still do the R&R." So, as I mentioned, it really depends on what level of what people consider to be wellness. So, every property in Vietnam can and is doing wellness . I'll give you a very good example. Yesterday, I was looking through Facebook, and here in Huế, there's a small city hotel, and I see them all the time on Facebook. And they generally do adverts about F&B, or about their cocktails and their dinner. And suddenly there was a picture of a fitness structure and someone doing yoga. I'm now-- Wow. Okay. 11:38 So, all the properties are really linking on to this aspect of saying, "Yes, we have these beautiful rooms. Yes, we have these beautiful this, this, this, this, this." But suddenly using photos of good-looking people doing yoga poses, suddenly you are seeing pictures of salads, and not big steaks and chips and wine. So really, there's a shift nationally in this country. I won't speak about other countries because it is happening there as well. Towards wholesomeness, towards being healthier in your nutrition, the relaxation, I think, just comes into it. Because you're going to another place and you're discovering as well. But really, there is a very big shift towards people thinking about their wellbeing, how to be healthier. Because where this really came in, is the [sysco 12:28] who, couldn't stop talking about your immune system, about being healthy about protecting yourself. And the statistics we saw internationally where, the unhealthy overweight, people with problems were the ones who really, really suffered and unfortunately, some of them passed away during COVID. So, we all suddenly went, "Okay, we need this super boost. We need this magic pool; we need to all be healthy." Which is fantastic for wellness, and great for our industry. And we're going to have a much healthier, active wellbeing population around the world. Kerry Newsome: 13:06 I guess the thing I want to just make sure that we're on the same page with, is there going to be more retreats? Is there going to be more- I guess- I don't want to use the word serious. But I mean, in depth, mindfulness around this, that's probably what I want to get to in Vietnam. With all great intentions. I think sometimes the Vietnamese can kind of skip those processes a little bit. Hylton Lipkin: 13:36 Very good point. Excellent point. And, yes, the quick fix is obviously the easy way. And from a smaller property perspective, from a smaller tour operator perspective, yes, just throw in a little picture on the webpage with a yoga person, we've got it moving on, and everything else remains exactly the same. So, there is definitely a degree to that. For sure. It's the cheap, easy way to say, "We've got everything that we had before. But now we also have this." So just to attract those 10 or 20 different extra people to come into the country because we've got that box ticked up. But going deeper, as you said, yes, I think in the past, Vietnam was very much based on culture. The main aspect of visitation to the country was culture and beauty. Whereas now with this wellness, there are companies, and more and more people like in Luminary Wellness for example, who are going deeper and from the development stage, there is a wellness concept being incorporated. In fact, to the point where now they are architectural companies, who are incorporating, the wellbeing design and this is becoming very popular. 14:14 Again, Return on Investment. It's easy for us to speak I'm very passionate about it. But when someone's pouring in hundreds of millions of dollars, and I'm telling him, that he has to make his windows, and they need to open and there needs to be fresh air, and he's like, "Well, how much does the small window cost? And how much does the double ply blah, blah, blah, blah, window cost?" or the whatever. There's that game that still has to be played. But to answer your question, yes, before we used to talk about these big wellness centuries, in the States, or in Thailand, very popular as well, and obviously up in Europe, in the mountains, in the Alps, and things like that, but Vietnam was never on that list. But now it is. Now we definitely have-- personally, I don't want to blow my horn and say that my property is one of those, that definitely we consider ourselves as one of the more integrated wellness destinations in Vietnam. And we're not alone. And you mentioned Michelle Ford , I know she's working on an integrated wellness destination, not far from us. And there are more and more. So, to answer your question, yes, there's definitely more of an in-depth wellness destination, coming in Vietnam without a doubt. Kerry Newsome: 16:10 That's comforting to hear, because, that philosophy of wellness, mindfulness and travel, in this space, there's so many expectations to meet, I'm talking to travelers, and they're the ones that drill down and just want to get down to, you know, really what there is. And as we know, Vietnam does offer a diversity of beauty. I mean, I just- I can go to Hội An and, the first day, I feel lifted just because of the color, because of the vibe, the energy, the lanterns, twilight, so I can get a sense of wellness, just through their culture. But to go to the lengths that you're talking about, which I think is great. And, I know your property, and I want you to talk about your property, because I think it's a rich example. And certainly, the direction I want to take with these podcasts is to be able to offer my travelers, different options that are real, that you know, are told from the perspective of knowledge. And because you have that background, that's a real gift. Not every general manager of one of these locations would have your wellness background. So, to me, that's a gold star, automatically. So maybe talk to us a little bit about Alba, and maybe a little bit about Huế, so people can get the combination of what they can experience at the Alba Wellness location. Hylton Lipkin: 17:52 Okay, so now it's my five minutes of pitching advertising. Kerry Newsome: 17:57 No, no, I don't want your pitching advertising, no. Hylton Lipkin: 18:02 This is the story. There's only one place in Vietnam that you need to visit. No, okay, I'm joking. [laughter] In central Vietnam, where we are in Huế, I think, I'll do it the other way around, I'll explain a little bit about Huế then go into Alba. Huế is actually the imperial capital- was the imperial capital of Vietnam. So again, I had no idea about this. I knew about the north and the south, I knew about the Americans being involved, I think we got some of that from Hollywood, basically, and a little bit in history if we delve, but beyond that, not much. And I found myself in Huế, which actually has this beautiful Citadel, a very big palace, which was the home of the emperor of Vietnam for many years. And they have really kept it as best as they can. So, it's a fantastic historical relic that you find in the center of Vietnam and everything around that is centered towards the Citadel. So, when you actually come into Hue, you find this place and it's really a wow moment. It's- "What is this?" Just is like the first time you see Buckingham Palace or something, you know, wow! 19:12 So that that's really something different and something unique for this area. And then the city itself is very beautiful with the water landscapes, and actually people live inside the Citadel, they have housing all around inside, so you just have these big castle walls. So, it's actually very unique and very pretty. Then ourselves. Alba is actually about 30 kilometers out of the city. The reason we are there is there's hot springs that come out of the ground. So about 40 years ago, these hot springs were discovered actually, over 100 years ago, these hot springs were discovered. And then over time, certain people got involved again, I won't go into details about who found Alba, but Madame Chào, she bought or rented this area and said, "I will develop these hot springs for the people." So, there's a very big CSR concept behind it, where she wanted the local people to be able to use the benefits, and the medical benefits of these natural hot springs, and not be closed off into one of those international very expensive types of areas. So, which is a great idea. 20:22 So, our whole property was built around that. So today, what we have is what we call Alba Wellness Valley, which is built up into two properties, we have one side, which we call Thanh Tan, which is where the hot springs are, and people can come for a day pass. And there is camping and there is highlands and zip lining and hiking and swimming activities and many, many different activities. But the local people can come for one day, it's not expensive. And they can enjoy the benefits of the hot springs and the whole environment of being outside. On the other side, we have what we call Alba Wellness, which is more of a high-end, four-star, five-star property, which also incorporates the hot springs and everything with it, but it's more on a higher end. So, we really get the best of both worlds. So, we are using the hot springs as a central attraction. But we are allowing the high-end population more on a more expensive- if we could say that, to benefit from that with more intense and more developed programs, that you mentioned earlier. On the other side, we have the very down to earth, just come sit and soak in the hot springs, take it in, and it doesn't cost you almost anything. So, we really tried to maintain the concept of the founder, Madam Chào, where it remains affordable for the local people. 21:45 On the wellness side we have-- the company that-- we are managed by Fusion, has its own exclusive Wellness Spa concept. So, every guest gets a treatment included in the room, right? So, for example, anywhere you go in the world, most of the places in the world, you get Bed and Breakfast, which is kind of a given today. So, if you come to one of our properties, you get Bed Breakfast and Spa. So with every night stay, you have a treatment, depending on the category of the room, you can have a more intensive treatment, a longer treatment, you can upgrade and change things that-- everyone gets-- So if you come to Alba wellness Valley, you get a room, you get a spa treatment, you get breakfast, you get unlimited hot spring, you get all the wellness activities: · Meditation. · Yoga. · Walking. · Mindfulness. · Hiking. · Cycling. There's many, I won't go into detail now, that's all included in the room. So, when we are talking about a wellness destination, when we are talking about people coming to a place for wellness getaway, it's ideal. Again, I don't want to oversell myself and say we're the best. Kerry Newsome: 22:54 No, no. Hylton Lipkin: 22:55 But we do offer everything that a person needs. Or wants in terms of: "Okay, this is how I'm going to change. This is how I'm going to relax. This is how I'm going to benefit my health. This is how I'm going to do this, or whatever it is." But just for the record, we do have that expensive bottle of wine if you do want it. It's not hanging on the wall in front of you. But it's definitely there. My F&B manager was very upset with me the other day, I cleared the bar area, we had a lot of alcohol up at the bar. And I put some very nice decoration up and I told him that people want alcohol they can offer it; he wasn't happy with me. But again, the idea is to have people really not-- it's like someone who's addicted to cigarettes, and you want to stop, you're not going to put cigarettes in front of their face every day. If they want to smoke, they have to go and find it or they have to go and buy it. So, there will be a reduction. So, I'm not telling I don't want the whole world to become healthy. And I don't want everyone to come to our property and go, "Oh my God, I'm just going to eat salad for three days and they're going to make me run up the mountain and there's not going to be a holiday." There is everything available. Kerry Newsome: 24:01 That's the sweet point with Alba, is, it's available to you if you wish to take it up, but as you say, maybe not, you know, put in your face but sometimes, and I'll know- a group of girls, who say, "We should go on a retreat or something.: And then one of the girls will say, "I'm not going to go on a retreat and spend a fortune and drink tea for three days." So, if we can look at a destination like Alba to have the opportunity to expand on your wellness stay, if you want it, or mix it up if you want it. I think that's the sweet point Hylton Lipkin: 24:50 I think it's very important as you mentioned, when you are building up a wellness destination or when you are building up something in terms of wellness. If you go too hardcore, you're going to scare off people. So, you want to be able to cater to everyone. So, your listeners would still want to come to Vietnam, they would still like to enjoy the beautiful colors of Hội An. Or go and eat street food in, in everywhere in the country. And yes, come back and enjoy yoga and everything. So, there must be the best of both worlds, they are destinations out there, where you go in, you close the door. And for five days you are drinking tea, like you said, and paying quite a lot of money for that. But there's an objective there. So really, in terms of wellness internationally, but today we're talking about Vietnam, the salad and the massage is actually a great step in to give you the idea of: "You can do it like this. But you don't have to do it like that", because we don't want to turn off people and make it too hardcore. And that's very important. Kerry Newsome: 25:49 I think also that there is an interest within travelers to put sustainable travel with wellness. So, I'd like to talk to you a little bit about some of the sustainability practices that Alba offers, because, you know, people are somehow combining those, they want the combination, they want to be able to go into that location, knowing that the philosophy of that organization or that hotel in their practices, has got sustainability into the environment. And because I know you have a very great passion in environmental wellness, maybe you can speak to us a little bit about that, and how that shapes up with Alba and generally in Vietnam. Hylton Lipkin: 26:46 Right, you're hitting all my passionate topics. As I mentioned earlier, wellness is a different thing to different people. And there's many different facets and different areas that wellness can be considered. What I'm working on at the moment is what I call Green Wellness. And green wellness actually breaks down into the physical and mental and wellbeing like you mentioned, there's also the social-economic impact. And then there's the environmental impact. So, I like to look at those three elements in terms of what we call green wellness. So, we've discussed a little bit about the environment, or the mindfulness and physical and mental. We spoke a little bit about the community. But in terms of sustainability, again, a massive topic. Again, COVID came in, and the first thing we saw worldwide was the beautiful canals of Venice that we blew, the whole world saw that and everyone- "I hear they played with the photos. That's not true." But that was a wakening up call. Because suddenly, we saw Venice with blue canals that no one had ever even heard of. Why? Because we're not on the boats. 27:57 Suddenly, the CO2 emissions in the sky completely dropped. Why? Because we're not flying because the factories are closed. So, it was definitely an awakening for us in terms of, "It can be done." So, there is a big shift, thanks to COVID in terms of: We need to protect our environment, we need to leave something there for our children or our grandchildren, because things are getting pretty bad. I mean, it's very sad that the last Co-Op meeting, the chairman started crying and said, "I'm sorry, guys, we don't have a solution." That is out of control. I mean, how can we allow that to happen? Where money in our pocket is more important than forest growing outside. So, I think you understand my passion and that I just don't understand why and how. So again, for Alba Wellness Valley, it's an important part of our existence of our DNA. We started off the year 2022. We planted 2000 trees, boom! it was freezing cold, it was raining. But we planted 2000 trees, we actually got the local community to come in and help us, so we got the local community, CSR involved, social, environment, people, and then obviously our team. So, if created a great environmental wellness concept of: "Hey, we need to wake up and we need to do something." 29:22 I'm working with some international groups at the moment, think tanks, very exciting. And we are coming up with different ways of how we can incorporate sustainability into hospitality, which is a very big topic at the moment. And the plastic bottles in a room. --I've just written an article that I hope to publish, that, some of these 1000 room properties in Las Vegas or wherever it may be in the world, even in China, have two plastic bottles in the room. Every day they run 80% occupancy, do the math, it's hundreds and 1000s of plastic bottles per month, times 12 per year, that are just one-use plastic. So, again, there's a shift towards having sustainable glass bottles in the rooms, the days of the little plastic bottles in the showers. I know it's not good for the companies that used to make those or still do make those. But that's just not sustainable. Why can't we have a one big plastic container with small ceramics, fill them up and reuse, reuse, reuse? 30:35 The RRR concept, reduce, reuse and recycle. And that's where it's got to be in water management, waste management, energy management, all of these things. So earlier, we mentioned that the investment and the development of the property, these things need to be considered at that time. Now, as general managers or hotel operators, we are doing everything we can to convert ourselves to be in a more sustainable situation. But if in the beginning, we said, "Hey, we're not going to use the grid electricity, we're going to invest an extra $100,000. But we're going to use solar, are we going to do this." Yes, it's going to cost more in the beginning. But generally, there's a budget in the beginning, there's an investment budget, so throw that in, then, and then electricity bills will come down. But from a marketing perspective, if you go out today, and you say we are off the grid, and we're using solar energy, you actually get more awareness towards your property, forget about the fact that you're saving money and you're saving the Earth, there's a massive- what's the word, not marketing, as far as I could say, marketing element to it. 31:42 So, sustainability is actually fashionable. And that's great. You don't need to wear Nike or Adidas, if you wear a t-shirt that says, "I care about the Earth", you'll probably sell it, maybe you get Kanye West to sign it for you, and you can sell it for $90. Give him $10 and give $80 to some association somewhere that can help the world. So, all of these small little elements, every property- and again, it's not just hospitality, it's the government. And getting back to the Huế government, I actually worked quite closely with the Huế Tourism Board, on other projects, Huế run this weekend as well, and Huế wants to be greener. And they are working on these pillars, where people will come to Huế, because of the green destination, because they are careful about the waste, because they care about the environment because they are planting trees. And again, it attracts people. So, from a tourism perspective, it's an attraction point. It's a selling point. But hey, that's a great thing. 10 out of 10, but at the same time, our grandchildren will have a forest in a 100 years’ time. So hey, we need to go with it. Kerry Newsome: 33:03 I want to ask you, just as we finish up, because this was something that sounded rather interesting, when we began talking a week or so ago, you said, you are the ambassador of a Wellness Weekend. So maybe talk to us a little bit about that, as I'm sure my listeners would be interested to know. Hylton Lipkin: 33:25 Okay, definitely. So, we have an organization called World Wellness Weekend, WWW. And it doesn't mean World Wellness Web. It means World Wellness Weekend. But of course, we link to the idea. The idea behind World Wellness Weekend is that, every year on one weekend in the year, it will be the 16th, 17th and 18th of September this year, the whole world comes together to do wellness activities. And when I mean the whole world, last year, we had 133 countries involved. We had a couple of 1000; I think nearly two and a half 1000 events throughout the whole world doing wellness activities on that weekend. Yeah, it's pretty exciting. And I'm honored to be a part of it. And again, I think you can understand a little bit about my passion and to make change and to bring people involved and have fun at the same time. I'm a there. Where do I sign. 34:24 So, I am the ambassador for World Wellness Weekend Vietnam. Last year, we had about 87 different events or people involved, groups. We were the 10th best country in in the world or our first year. Just for the record, South America is definitely the most active, Brazil- and they have so much gone on. But it's all about getting people to get out and do something, be healthy, be happy. Everything I mentioned to you in terms of green wellness is exactly what falls under. So, if you get 200 people and you go out into a forest, and you part of the Huế government, and you all go and plant trees, that's part of World Wellness Weekend. If you take a bank or three banks, the corporate group and you go out into the parking lot, and you do a Zumba class on that weekend, that is wellness for the team, it is well as for the world. And it's another activity. If you are a resort or wellness destination like ours, and you're organized something and you bring 100 people together, and you all run through the forest, or you plant some trees, or you do pushups or you carry logs around or whatever it might be. That's another wellness activity. 35:43 So, our objective as ambassadors for World wellness weekend is we try to find people like yourself who can promote it and get more and more people involved. We have a webpage , world-wellness-weekend.org. And on that, there is what we call the wellness map. So, you can go on and you can sign up, Kerry Newsome, I live in Australia, I do XYZ in this place, I go to this fitness center. And on this weekend, my friends, and now we're going to do this. And then that is tabulated and counted throughout the whole world. And then we know that Kerry Newsome in Australia is going to be doing this on that weekend. And we have to do press releases, throughout the whole world. So just because ABC is spinning center in Brazil, he is doing a spinning class, the whole world, the people in Huế in Australia, in Russia, in Helsinki will know about it. So, we really come together as a family about wellness, promoting wellness, and we have a hashtag, two hashtags, which is called #WellnessForAll and #WellnessByAll. And those are the hashtags we use. So, I don't want to too much at [crosstalk]. But please go on Facebook and just talk world wellness weekend you will find France, Germany, India, Vietnam, they are all there, follow us, go to our webpage. And most of all, go to your gym or your yoga center, or your friends and say, "Hey, let's sign up. And let's do something on the 16th, 17th and 18th, or one of those days, all of those days of this year." And join us [crosstalk] Kerry Newsome: 37:26 I might even see myself in Vietnam at that time. So, you know, crossed fingers, I can maybe join you at Alba. Hylton Lipkin: 37:42 I think as we've mentioned throughout this whole call, there's definitely a big development and a big growth in terms of wellness. So many of the properties that you do already know or to do advertise have a wellness influence that is coming in, definitely. They are more and more destinations, Thuận An. There are one or two properties in Thuận An, that are very wellness orientated. You mentioned Hội An. There are actually one or two in Hội an as well and obviously us. But that only covers central Vietnam. So, I would say in central Vietnam- I wouldn't say, we are leading the way, but there's definitely development in terms of wellness destination. But going out into the different parts of the country, there are things everywhere. Like we mentioned, investors now are more interested in the wellness concept to sell their properties, they see more of a return on investment. So, there will be a push in that. 38:44 Again, I don't want to do too much advertising because it's not the concept of the podcast. But the group that we work with, all that I work for, is Fusion Resorts. And we call ourselves the wellness hospitality company. So, every one of our properties, which is actually now in Thailand as well. We do CSR, we do community services, we do wellness activities, there's all spa inclusive as well. So, we have properties throughout the country. And all of those do offer wellness elements, maybe not as in depth as we're doing at Alba. But they do have that, but saying that I know that Starwood, I know that [inaudible 39:25], I know that Marriott- okay, Marriott and Starwood are the same company now. I worked with some of the people on some of the think tanks, and everyone is developing wellness concepts. Everyone is developing wellness packages. Everyone is developing retreats. So, I would say, just do your homework, go into the internet, but there's a lot out there, a lot. Kerry Newsome: 39:51 Fantastic. I just want to say again, thank you very much for your time. It's been great to chat about this and I feel really good that we've got some depth going in Vietnam now and I can see a lot of tourists seeking out these places in the future. So, thanks very much again Hylton. Hylton Lipkin: 40:11 No, thank you.

S5-E16-Smart phone Apps and tech tips for travellers to Vietnam S5-E16-Smart phone Apps and tech tips for travellers to Vietnam Episode 16 S5-E16-Smart phone Apps and tech tips for travellers to Vietnam 00:00 / 48:24 No one travels these days without their phone. So, it makes sense to invest in some extra smartphone skills that can significantly enhance your travel experience if Vietnam. In this show we arm you with some of the best Tech Tips and Apps to enhance your experience of Vietnam, including : staying in touch with family and friends back home; Not getting caught out with home country phone fees; saving money on tour costs: feeling confident about exploring outer regions, and not necessarily having to do it alone. In this podcast episode, I am joined by Michelle Chang from Intentional Travellers, a business offering tutorials in Smart phone upskilling for travel to countries all around the world. Through Michelle’s worldwide travel experiences she is able to explain the benefits of having these skills and how they can help travellers answer unexpected questions, deal with challenges, and navigate unfamiliar places more effectively. Michelle highlights the significance of using essential apps such as Google Maps, Google Translate, WhatsApp, and ride-sharing apps like Grab, but that’s only the beginning. Additionally, we cover;- * Currency conversions Apps – to help understand local currencies and lots of zeros. *Phone battery management *Making the best use of Google Maps *Data management and phone calls made easier *The ride share advantages *Working remotely in Vietnam *Online booking tools and Apps to get the best offers *Using your phone to manage communication with tour operators Moreover, the conversation on remote work in Vietnam highlights the robust internet connectivity and the extensive use of technology for business. Michelle notes the widespread availability of free Wi-Fi in cafes and co-working spaces, emphasizing the increasing appeal of digital nomadism. By utilizing smartphone capabilities and modern technology, travelers can effortlessly integrate work with leisure, maintaining productivity while discovering new destinations. If you would like to know more about Michelle’s tutorials and online programs you can connect directly with her here - https://intentionaltravelers.com/ For a great experience with a buddy to help you enjoy local areas, business situations, translations and possibly medical appointments, why not book a Travel Buddy through https://www.tubudd.com/ Use the Promo code KERRYVN5 on the payment page in the booking TUBUDD App to receive 5% discount on hourly rate of services. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

ed10c13c-1fb0-41e6-adce-273e1b6a9b72How should you travel to and in Vietnam and is it safe? What About Vietnam - Series 1 - 3 How should you travel within Vietnam? Xing Chau and Welcome to What About Vietnam. My name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host. You are listening to the what about Vietnam series - everything you need to go before you go. My aim is to pass on as much information as I can to ensure you have a great trip. In the previous episode we covered off that age old question “When is it a good time to go?”. In that session I hoped I explained a little bit about how Vietnamese festivals and the weather impacts that decision. However today we are going to cover off the “How should you travel to Vietnam as in what style…. as part of a tour, through a travel agent, do it all yourself, online ???, and the best way to get around. There isn’t really any guide book or website page to help you with the decision of whether to travel to Vietnam, as a solo traveller, couple, in a group, or should you take your extended family. Or maybe you are thinking of a girls getaway? A flop and drop romantic breakaway ? Are you a thrill seeker, intrepid, Cave discovery, Eco, hiking kind or traveller? Should you take kids? Is it safe? Will the kids get bored?Will you be able to eat the food? It is such a personal decision. But what I can tell you is what I know to be true from personal experience and that of many travellers I have dealt with over the last few years working with travel agents and service providers in Vietnam. It depends on a couple of things. Your budget and the kind of experience you want to have. You can buy a 2 star to a 5 star stay in Vietnam. Online there are agencies in all languages. My only advice dealing with an agency, make sure its a reliable one and offers value for their service. To me the biggest advantage of an agent is most in their ability to look after you while on the trip, as in if things go to clay you have a person in charge of your tour who will chase things or fix things for you in the case they don’t work out. Online with Online Travel agents that is not alway so easy and can be problematic. Intrinsically how you book to go, depends on your preferred star rating of travel, budget and level of comfort desired. I have stayed in 2 star to 5 star and everything in between and I have my preferred way but that may not be yours. Im a safety conscious traveller and will not stay anywhere that is a lesser standard of my home, so it least needs to be at that level or above preferrably. Othewirse in my opinion, why leave home.?? Personally I can speak with authority about travelling to Vietnam as a solo traveller. Is it safe? In my experience yes. But like any traveller in any country you need to travel with your wits about you and use common sense when it comes to getting yourself around. I like to think having travelled to many countries I have a ‘sick sense” about impending danger and try where possible never to let myself be in a position to be vulnerable to that. So Where are those places ...like in any country, Mostly in the main cities of Hanoi and HCMC, there are a few areas, I would not choose to go alone. But again, thats just common sense and mostly because, if I found myself in trouble in those areas that don’t see many western tourists, I would stand out like the proverbial. And probably struggle to get help other than hailing a taxi or calling a Grab car. But if you go to outer regions in the country, the locals despite minimal English are always kind and welcoming...in my expereince. And i can only speak from my own experience. You should see what I can do with hand gestures...facial experessions, you can achieve a lot. As you may have already guessed I cannot speak Vietnamese and have zero skills in pronunciation. So you will just have to accept that. In remote areas I would suggest you go with a guide to get the history of the minority groups. Places like Mau Chau, where you will find The White Thai (Thai Trang) Different from Thai people in Thailand. You will also meet the Hmong people living in and around the Pa Co Nature Reserve. Living as they have for many hundreds of years. So for adventurers... solo, or as couples,...or families you can feel confident about planning your trip to move freely about Vietnam, with the utmost safety. The most enchanting areas in the north west of Vietnam, and even around the Mekong Delta, you will see a side of life that is existing…. in some ways as it has done for centuries. Hard as that may be to imagine.The friendship offered by the Vietnamese is well documented and continues today. You will be overwhelmed if my expereince is anything to go on. So getting back to tors, what you want from Vietnam depends largely on your budget and time available. Should you hire a motorbike and ride through Vietnam? Yes, if you are an experienced rider and you have time on your side. Will all the roads be paved. No. Will there be areas where the roads are windy and dangerous, Yes. But will you have the time of your life...ABSOLUTELY. I have known many travelers who have done this and in my new series I will be sharing with them some of these experiences. So stay tuned. For a family, you have all types of travel at your disposal. Kids have a plethora of experiences open to them, many made available through the VinPearl group, who has hotels and theme parks like you would get in the states! But in addition to that you have cultural experiences to open their minds. The chance to visit places to learn how to grow chocolate, make rattan mats, paint masks, make paper lanterns, climb mountains, and visit amazing caves. In addition they can enjoy affordable water sports at some of the most picturesque beaches in the world. I took my grandson last year, who is 16, and I thought without his devices he would be bored, but quite the contrary..he was fascinated with the adventure of seeing a new culture, experiencing the beaches at An Bang at Hoi An, visiting the Old town and seeing the Hoi An Memories show; climbing Marble mountain and even participating in a cooking class which his parents would never have believed had I not taken a video. So you can relax, finding things for your whole family to enjoy will not be a problem. We will talk more about specific locations in future episodes. Vietnam is generously available to all travel types. You can come to Vietnam and get around to most parts by Air, bike, Train, private driver, bus and or river. You cannot however hire a car yourself...as you can in most other countries in the world. Thus you wont see any car Hire places like Hertz or Europcar at the airports. But arranging a quality driver and car with aircon is very easy at any tourist desk in the main cities. And reasonably priced. These tourist desks exist as an easy place to organise your own day tours and adventures. You can do this from your hotel as well if you feel more comfortable, but you will pay more. One visit, my husband and I stayed in Hanoi for a month. Staying at a homestay hotel, at $30 AU a night, we used the city as our base to plan day and over night trips to Ninh Binh and Sapa. All very affordable and easy to arrange. The overnight train trip to Sapa was something id wanted to do, and Im glad I did it, just for the experience. Most places of interest are connected by bus and now Air. You can reach most places within Vietnam by air in about 1 hour - 1 hour 3o mins. Flights are available through: ASCO Air Vietnam JetStar Pacific Airlines Vietjet Air Vietnam Airlines Air Mekong Air is the way to go if you are strapped for time and the terrain you are traveling in between uninteresting. As I have said bus is a common and very cheap form of travel. But slow. And not always comfortable as many roads a windy and the buses old and rickety. Not my preferred way to travel when its easier to get a flight and it is NOT that expensive. I do have it on good authority that some train trips, especially the one from Danang to Hanoi through the Hai van Pass offers some great views so it may be something to consider given you have time as the trip is long 10-12 hours. In regard to bike trips, I will save some of the hair raising stories of fun, and exhilarating experiences for my guests in the next series. I certainly have loved getting around small towns like Hoi An on the back of a scooter within a group tour or with a friend. I do not have a bike licence so that it my only, ….legal option. To ride as a passenger. I wont get into those that still do hire bikes without a licence as its fun, until…...its not when an accident happens. 90% of Travel Insurance companies do not cover bike riding in Vietnam. Lastly, many ask me, if they should book everything before they leave, or wait and book over there. My advice comes back to a question. What are you most comfortable doing? If you do book EVERYTHING before you leave, you are committed and that may be a good thing or a bad thing. Personally, I like to book my flights and some accommodation over there, and then make it up as I go using the various Tour desks. The advantage of group tours, is the pricing and the chance to hang with a group of people and possibly make new friends. ls there is safety in crowds...I guess. I loathe BIG group tours, as I feel they show the stadium experience of Vietnam and not the grass roots version. You only get to eat at and visit places that can accommodate large numbers, and they aren’t always the prettiest versions or the most authentic. Not all, but some as I hate to generalise. Large groups are not well liked for how they treat the environment. So be careful and choose wisely. I deal with all types so please send me a question if you are unsure. In regard to the food. I have mixed it,.... with all kinds of tastes, allergies and nerves about the quality of food and I am glad to say, I have always found options for all paletes. The food is amazingly fresh, cheap if you are prepared to eat like Vietnamese and lushous if you are prepared to pay extra. Seafood is bountiful ….as is fresh fruits. I have one friend who is a seasoned traveller and prefers to eat seafood selected from the buckets where you can pick your own. I could spend a whole session just talking about the amazing food. But I will save it for some experiences I have to share in the next series. I hope I amwetting your appetitie for the next series. So in wrapping up this session, “How should you travel to Vietnam as in what style, as part of a tour, through a travel agent, or do it all yourself???, and what is the best way to get around?? Now you are gathering more info about Vietnam, ask yourself the question, How committed do you want to be before you leave, and what are you prepared to leave to Chance??? Knowing you have lots of options to DIY. In how to get around:- I rate Air, Car with a driver, train for experience, river boat for experience in the Mekong, ….Bike if you have an International bike licence, not just a car licence,( POlice cracking down on this more and more) and lastly bus. For solo, couples, families, kids and intrepid travellers, Vietnam has it all, dependant on budget, and time basically. Please check with the Episode notes for any links mentioned and feel free to contact me anytime. I look forward to paving the way for you to have a magical time in Vietnam as I share more trip planning tips over future episodes ... ….stay tuned for more to come in the super 6 series, Whatabout Vietnam - before you book. Thanks for listening…..Bye for now...

S4-23 Take beautiful photos Part 1 How to capture beautiful photos - Part 1 Episode 23 S4-23 Take beautiful photos Part 1 00:00 / 35:31 One of my favourite things to do in Vietnam is taking photographs. You can’t help wanting to just click away!!! It’s hard not to want to capture Vietnam’s magnificent scenery and colour popping landscapes, rivers, mountains and cities a buzz with people and rich culture. However, how can we capture those photographs that, upon reviewing them later, fill us with an overwhelming sense of pride and eagerness to share them with our friends and family. Meet our extraordinary photographer, and guest Thomas Levine whose talents and experiences have taken him on an incredible journey around the world! With a bachelor's degree in Sociology and minors in business and psychology, he possesses a unique perspective that shines through in his captivating photographs. His portfolio boasts a diverse range of subjects, including people for annual reports and advertising, still life compositions featuring cigars, cars, food, jewellery, furniture, flowers, and even nature and wildlife. His artistic eye captures the essence of each subject, delivering images that are both visually stunning and conceptually compelling. This is a 1 of a 2 part series on mastering photography in Vietnam. In Part 1 Thomas shares his wisdom in the pursuit of the perfect travel pic you will want to share. He focuses on the use of color, lines, backgrounds and the focus you need to have when photographing epic scenery, people, and activities. Whether its with a Camera or smartphone these tips on photography are universal. Follow Thomas’s remarkable photography as he continues to capture the beauty of Vietnam from his home in Hoi An, one click at a time. Check out his website for further advice and lessons. You can find Thomas here Thomas Levine https://www.levinephotography.com/ https://www.alamy.com/portfolio/levine-travel-stock https://thomaslevinephotography.com Skype: thomas.levine888 Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

17f693a3-e0d3-48a7-bc50-3b3790001b10Vietnam from a cultural and historical standpoint. What About Vietnam - Series 1 - 6 The culture and Visa Process Mid Covid19 -2020 Xing Chau and Welcome to What About Vietnam. My name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host. In this episode I’d like to give you some final background to the country you will be visiting, from a cultural and historical point of view, and so there are no shocks or surprises, I will endeavour to explain a few things that might hit you first off. Plus I want to cover off one of my most asked questions. Do I need a visa …...The answer is most likely….YES...But..I’d like to give you some detail about the process for that here as well. In saying that ..I am recording this episode in the midst of Covid 19, mid May 2020, so this is what is current as of this date. I may in the future record an update once we are out of the other side of travel bans and it is clearer what the Visa situation will be, moving forward. However, let me cover off what we know to be true about Vietnam from a factual point of view. Vietnam, ….officially the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, it is the easternmost country on the Southeast Asian Indochinese Peninsula. It has an estimated 96.5 million inhabitants as of 2019. It shares its land borders with China to the north, and Laos and Cambodia to the west. It shares its maritime borders with Thailand through the Gulf of Thailand, and the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia through the South China Sea. Its capital city is Hanoi, while its most populated city is Ho Chi Minh City. In the whole country there are 45 million registered motor bikes …….with 7.43 million in HCMC alone. With a population of 8.9 million people, that makes 1+ bikes per person. I mention this because your entry port is going to be either one of 3 major cities - HCMC, Hanoi, or Danang. So that initial introduction to Vietnam is going to be around the sounds, the heat and the volume of motorbikes you will encounter as soon as you leave the airport. For some it can be overwhelming and that’s why I cover it off here. I can remember my sister’s first trip. Once you know what to expect and you have the right mindset, it’s something you can manage. Vietnam is a beautiful country with so much to see. I am amazed that as many times as I go there, there is always something new to discover. Often called the Dragons spine….. A long skinny country with a coastline that stretches over 3,200km. It’s a gifted country, with some of the most beautiful beaches, caves, grotoes, waterfalls and scenery, it’s not surprising it has won so many Travel awards over the past few years. Its definitely woken up the world in recent times with how well it took command of the Covid 19 crisis. With more than 4000 years of history, the soulful culture can be seen in its pagodas, shop houses, art, folk songs, amazing performances, of a world standard, …..but there is so much more in the smiles of the Vietnamese people themselves. Who I guarantee you will fall in love with. Mostly Buddhist, the Vietnamese are conservative by world standards. They are a country that has been hardened by wars, famines, floods and tyranny. However as you will soon realise they are a hopeful country. It is a country that is now coming into its own. So don’t be fooled, the Vietnamese are astute in business and have an eagerness to acquire wealth and status. But take yourself out into the country regions and you will be overwhelmed by the poverty, the living standards and the lack of infrastructure. It’s as if you have stepped back in time. In recognising the poor and humble beginnings of many of its people will give you a deeper understanding and appreciation of how far the Vietnamese have come. For the tourist, you have been flocking to its shores now in the millions. Tourism to date prior to Covid 19 was 6% of the GDP. The why is easy...as Y0U will soon find out once you go there... As a country recognized as “the kitchen of the world”. It’s a diverse culture and lifestyle waiting for you to explore. So…. as we make sure you get on board your flight safely and enjoy your stay without any hassles, lets firstly get that Visa process sorted:- If your country is NOT Visa Exempt, there are 3 options available to you. Btw...You can find out if your country is Visa exempt by checking your country listing on the immigration website. The link is in my notes. As we are now In Covid 19, and the world is coming to grips with a new generation of travel, the Visa process may change and I will update as and when that information is available. So first lets start with the easiest version: EVISA = Single entry - for an Under 30 day stay The quickest, simplest and cheapest way to apply for a Visa to Vietnam. I call it the no mess charlie option. It does not necessitate you having to send your passport to the Vietnam consulate or queue upon arrival in Vietnam for a Visa stamp in your passport. Nominally called VOA - Visa On Arrival. However, The Evisa has its limitations as it is strictly for single entry only and up to 30 days maximum stay. Its as simple as making your application on the website - the address is noted in the Episode notes - Follow the website instructions and its as easy as that. Well almost…..I do want to share a couple of "bugs" in the website that can be good to know about so it doesn’t muck you about. 1. When it asks for a passport photo to be uploaded. I have found the best process is to take a photo of a Passport photo you have as a spare. NOT the one in your current passport. It doesn't like that one. It doesn’t matter if it is not the same as your current passport photo. Once you have photographed it. Crop it to Passport size roughly. Save and upload. 2. When asked to upload a photo of your passport. Once again. Photograph your current passport and then crop to neat size, save and upload. 3. Double triple check …. You have spelt your name correctly, in the order shown and all details. MOST Important. Once you are approved, you will need to go back to the website and using your reference number print out the “Visa letter”. You will not necessarily get an email advising you the application is approved. It is up to you to go back into the website, using your reference number and check if it approved. ….allow up to 3 working days to process. This letter serves as your Visa (there will be no stamp in your passport) and you will have to present it at check in, and at immigration with your passport when you arrive in Vietnam. Do NOT lose this letter. Keep it with your passport at all times. NOTE: This letter is NOT the same as the Introduction letter they talk about when or if they are references the VOA...Visa on arrival. So just remember processing time of about 3 business days COST: As at 2019 $25 USD Check my link in the episode notes. See link below for the Visa application: - ONLY USE THIS LINK https://evisa.xuatnhapcanh.gov.vn/ The second Option - Option 2 – is for Multiple entry – Visa on Arrival (VOA) VOA as it is commonly referred to. Watch out for many websites trying to sell this service to you for exorbitant prices. Many are hoax sites, some offer VIP services mostly for those people who want to skip the queues and get special treatment..or they just plane forgot or left it too late to get the Evisa. Simply put, if you follow the instructions in the link on the website you will receive a letter by email with your name on it, which is your "letter of Introduction", along with a form with your name on it. There is an initial fee for this first step. By taking this letter together with your 2 passport photos and completed Visa Application form you will be able to ;- · Check in to your flight. If you do not have your letter of introduction they won’t let you board. Please take care to bring the letter and the pages with your name on it to confirm you have been accepted for this kind of Visa. The forms with your name on it are often separate to the main Introduction letter · Once you arrive at your first point of entry to Vietnam, which from Australia will most likely be Hanoi, or HCMC you will go to the "VOA "Counter located just before you go through Immigration. By handing them your letter + form + photos + passport and fee, they will take it and stamp your Multiple Entry Visa into your passport. Try and get to this VOA counter asap, as you may have to wait a while for them to call you, and if you have a connecting flight, that can make it a bit stressful. It can take up to 30 minutes if the queue is long. Once gaining the Visa stamp, you can progress through immigration and every time you go in and out of the country you will be covered; as per the Visa, you have applied for. You will see it says Multiple entry. See the link in the Episode notes. The fee is $25USD ( This may have changed as at 2019) so it helps if you have the correct currency to pay when you arrive as there are NO ATMs inside the arrival hall before you go through Immigration. However, I think they do now accept other currencies. NOTE- You can use VOA for single entry as well, but why would you bother with all that when Evisa now is much simpler. https://www.vietnamimmigration.com.au/faq/how-it-works?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiI_gu_fF2wIVzhwrCh3ESgrBEAAYAiAAEgKuCPD_BwE The last option and for some the most preferred Visa – Applications can be made direct to Consulate (these include single and multiple entries) For direct applications, you can download the appropriate forms from the Consulate website. By completing the form along with getting 1 Passport Photos you can hand them in along with your passport over the counter or mail them to Consulate's office, in your country. In Australia where I am speaking from it is in Edgecliff, Sydney. Allow minimum 2-3 days for processing plus postage. There are options for quicker turnaround if urgent, but you will pay an extra fee for that service. See the Consulate website below for all the details. For a general single entry - Cost $90 For a Multiple Entry Visa - $140 http://www.vietnamconsulate.org.au/ A few Words of caution There are a lot of Visa Service organizations out there. Some are not regulated. Some charge more for the same service you can do yourself and some are illegal. Please be careful when making your selection as some VIP ones charge more but do not provide a quick and efficient service, if you have forgotten to get a Visa and you are about to check-in and realize this…. One of the legitimate VIP services may be your only option. But expect to pay through the nose. So there you have the Visa process…. I hope you have gained a little bit more insight into some of things to consider when planning your trip to Vietnam, in this ….. Our first series. Keep a look out for updates in coming months. ….stay tuned for more to come in the NEW series ...Whatabout Vietnam…... A Travellers Guide to Experiences ….. - I can’t wait as you are going to meet so many interesting people who will tell you their tales of adventures in this amazing country. Thanks for listening.

S4-17 Vietnam Traveller Insights 2022 What About Vietnam - S4 - E17 The Best Vietnam traveller insights from 2022 Kerry Newsome: [00:00:35] Xin Chau and welcome to What about Vietnam for 2023. Chuc Mung Nam Moi, I hope you're having a wonderful celebration for the Lunar New Year for 23, the Year of the Cat in Vietnam, which is a little bit different to the Year of the Rabbit, which is more traditional for Chinese, but for Vietnam, it's definitely the Year of the Cat. We've got a really big year ahead. I want to say welcome to all my new listeners. I hope you're going to enjoy the show this year. We've got some really great guests on, and I'm hoping you're going to learn lots of things and I hope it's going to help you with your planning and trip planning for your next holiday. I want to give a big shout out and thank you to everybody that got in touch with me over Christmas, sent me messages and emails and who's supported the program and given me just great feedback. Really appreciative. Thank you and I hope to really support you in the future as well, and I hope you'll stick with the show. I'm delighted to be back with the 2023 new series. And I just wanted to, I guess, take this opportunity to share with you a little bit about some of the stories that we covered in 2022 and especially those that I know from feedback that has resonated with you that you have used to build your trips and plan your trips and and just help you give. I know I don't know some some more thought or consideration as you may not have known about those areas or those experiences over the break. Kerry Newsome: [00:02:35] THE YEAR AHEAD I hope everyone had a good time and got a chance to be with family and friends and just chill out a little bit. For me, it was a chance to kind of step back and just have a bit of a breather. And I was really, really thrilled to receive lots of emails and messages and stuff through social media, just giving me some more feedback about the show, the ones people liked, the ones people used and the information they used, and even warmer than anything else was just the encouragement that it gave me to to keep going. I guess that leads me into some exciting news where I, I really want to engage more with you this year. I want to open up opportunities for us to interact. And I'm going to be talking to you a little bit about that later. And I really do want to hear what's important to you, what stories, what subjects, what experiences, what information is of the most importance to you when you're thinking about your trip and how can I help deliver that trip to you? So I just wanted to thank everyone again for those emails and for the feedback and again, a thank you for your support. The other thing that happened was that I got to release my book in December 2022 Book Pack and Stay A Travel Guide to Vietnam. Kerry Newsome: [00:04:23] I can't say enough just how wonderful it's been to get the reviews that I've got, the personal emails to me thanking me for the book, for writing it, for including the information that I had put into the book. So once again, just a big thank you to everybody who has purchased the book. It is available on Amazon for $4.99. [00:04:58] Most people for their first time listening to the show or finding the show are doing so through a podcast channel. And that can be a Spotify, that can be a iTunes. And there's many other channels. I know that you listen from around the world. In fact, the show is now going to 70 countries and we've got I think last count was 34,000 listeners. So the additional information I want to share with you is that whilst there are show notes for the show in your channel and in each episode and it has links, etc., you can also go to the whataboutVietnam.com website? Now I bring this up because some of the information that you shared with me was about; Being able to capture some of the information. I had a fabulous story from one lady who lives in New Zealand, and she had been inspired by the podcast to plan a trip to Vietnam. Originally, she'd planned the trip for about ten days, but had since gone on to listen to more and wanted to extend her trip. So she took on an additional job and that was like a Uber deliveries or food deliveries job. And she said she was cycling around and doing the deliveries, but had to stop every now and then to stop the podcast that she was listening to while riding and then write down some notes as she didn't want to forget them. I truly loved that feedback. So, in response to that, this is kind of where I'm going. Where to go for more in-depth information You can go to the website and you can listen to every single episode there for free. So if you're not on a channel or you don't recognize the podcast channel on your phone, then you can literally go to the website and listen to that for free. In addition to that, on the website is a transcript. (This is an example transcript) So while the transcript is long, so if I'm doing a show for 20 minutes or 30 minutes or 40 minutes, and while there's a few kind of nuances in it not being exactly perfect English, all of the information is there and you can print it off. Some feedback I also had was that people were downloading the print PDF version and then just getting their highlighter pen out and highlighting the key areas of interest. So I wanted to share with you about that on the website. Now, the other thing you can go to on the website is my blogs. And what I'm trying to do and I'm going to get a little bit more vigilant in this is is putting together a small blog centered around one or two of the podcasts that I've just recorded so that if you want a kind of a brief or summarized version and, you know, with some of my takeaways and some of my interpretations, then likewise you can access that on the website through the blog. Kerry Newsome: [00:08:40] There's also the advantage that you can search on the blog, so you'll see that there's various various subject matters that are listed. There's also a search that you can go by areas so you can search for podcasts that are about the northern regions in the central regions and then the southern regions. Or you can just type say you wanted to put visas or visas. So what will come up will be the podcast that have that included and also blogs describing what you need to do to actually apply for a visa. So that's just kind of an extra thing that I thought I would mention. In addition, if you're not quite sure what you want to listen to or even if you want to listen to the whole episode, you can also see some or listen to some of our trailers. So I try to, you know, just grab a small snippet from an episode just a couple of minutes to feature something I think is notable all in the podcast that I've recorded. And then I load them up on the YouTube channel for What about Vietnam? So please go there also and have a look at the playlists, have a look at some of the series, etc. Kerry Newsome: [00:10:07] that you can also listen. And also it's a nice easy way to share if you wish to do so. Coming up, I'm also going to be adding a feedback tool so that when you go to the website that you can you can send me some feedback, you can send me a request, you can suggest a subject, and I'm going to be able to grab that and then, you know, put some homework into trying to find the best way to answer that for you and feature it in podcasts coming up. 2022 - THE YEAR IN REVIEW [00:10:54] So we started off 22 in what I think is a really positive light where we looked at the comedy scene and how it is developing in Saigon. And traditionally you probably wouldn't have thought about Saigon as offering English speaking comedy venues and an artist that can appear there. But it's really becoming a booming area and the tourists and the locals and everyone is just loving it. Niall Mackay is heading up a lot of that and he came on the show and was able to share with us some more information. Go directly to the Comedy show here. We then went on to the language. You cannot go to Vietnam without thinking about the language because. While it's great to be able to use some language when you go to a foreign country, Vietnam is quite challenging in the sense that the language has some tonal effects which make it quite a bit tricky to get that tone right. Kerry Newsome: [00:12:07] But what I tried to deliver in the podcast was just some handy words in the areas of greetings, special dietary requests, and maybe some words to use shopping wise, because we all don't want to think, you know, are they are they giving us their best price? Are they are they just kind of playing a bit of a bartering game or are they just being a little a little bit mischievous? It doesn't matter. It means that you've got a little bit of a dictionary in your vocabulary. And we had a lovely girl on the show that was able to share with us how to use those tones to the best ability. And I shared my ability or inability in some cases, but you've got that as a reference. And as I said, use the transcript and go back and highlight those areas. Go directly to the Greetings language show here Go Directly to the Dietary Requirements words show here Go directly to the shopping words here We also went into one of the most famous caves, the Son Doong caves in Phong Nha, and we got to meet Howard Limbert. Now, how he was one of the nine British explorers that actually discovered Son Doong. He still has a very active role in looking after the caves and ensuring and working with the government to protect them so that even as tourists, when we get to explore these magnificent caves, which now have reached worldwide, notary, that when you go there, you're going to have some insights in what to do in a one day tour, a two day tour, a three day tour and a four day tour. Go directly to the Phong Nha Caves show here Kerry Newsome: [00:14:07] Believe it or not, some of these caves and in particular, Son Doong actually takes four days to go through the whole cave. It does take a little bit of skill and there are bookings, I think right through the year. They only take very small numbers in each group. So you may have to prepare for that well in advance. Once again, check out the transcript and the notes for that. We also got to talk about wellness and we got to do that with Hilton Lipkin and his lovely wellness retreat just outside Hue. I got the chance to visit there this time in September when I was there, and I can't speak highly enough about the value of spending time in nature, and spending it with professionals that are going to really tailor a program for you and what your goals are. The accommodation is just delightful. The professionals that you work with are skilled and they work in a very personable way about what you want to do and what you want to get out of your visit. So we've got a really great feeling for how wellness is evolving in Vietnam. Hilton shares some very deep passions for wellness and really wants to see wellness retreats and wellness holidays grow in Vietnam. So we're going to feature more of those in 23 as we scour the country for more locations. Go directly to the Wellness show here and check out the Offers page. Kerry Newsome: [00:16:02] Another place that I am actually planning to visit again, and this is. Phu Quoc. We got to visit, and hear some insights with Patricia Marques. And Patricia was really great at giving just some insights into how the Fuqua Ireland can treat you as a visitor and some of the locations and some of the things to do on the island. Now, the last time I was in Phu Quoc was 2018. This is so that's pre COVID, and there was a lot of building and construction going on. So I can't say At that time I was experiencing the best of Phu Quoc as it was in that progress and development stage. So in 23, I really hope to get back there and just experience it on the other side as I'm hearing really great things. So check out the Phu Quoc episode with Patricia as I think as a hop across from Saigon. It's only an hour flight and you could find some really great deals on the island for your stay. Go directly to the Phu Quoc show here Now, I also had to share with you as a recap the trip I did with my grandson. So my grandson was 16 at the time, and I got to take him to Vietnam for a week. Now, I'm going to be honest with you. I wasn't quite sure how he'd go. I was taking him away from, you know, 90% access to devices and taking him outdoors. And he'd never been away with his grandmother before. Kerry Newsome: [00:17:54] And here we are going to a Southeast Asian country that he really would have only scantily known about. But he really embraced it. He got to experience cooking tours. We climbed Marble Mountain. We got to experience some food. Food. I never thought he would try. He just thoroughly enjoyed. He couldn't get over the beauty, the landscape, the people. It was really just the best thing. So I really encourage you to hear his take on it. He came on the show and, you know, I asked him to share really openly and honestly, and he did. And I think if you do have a young family that you'd like to bring and you've got teenager amongst them, I think you can feel really confident that they will experience something that they'll never forget. And I think they'll find the Vietnamese very welcoming and they're going to have a wonderful time. There's lots to do for kids in Vietnam. And in 2023, we're going to include a lot more of those experiences with some of my special guests. Go directly to the Teenager show here Continuing on, we got to really dive deep into the art scene in Vietnam, and I was able to begin that with Bridget March and we talked about the storytelling side of art and how artists can express themselves through their vision, their experience, their history, their culture, and tell the story through their art. I think sometimes when we see art in Vietnam, it's a big learning curve to really appreciate the story behind it. Kerry Newsome: [00:19:56] So Bridgett was great in sharing with us some of the some of her favorite galleries, and we even took it another step further and talked about contemporary art with Suzanne Lecht. And my visit with her in Hanoi was just amazing in the sense that I got to see how young artists coming through are seeing Vietnam and how without any limitations, they're able to express themselves and tell their story and how they see Vietnam in a more contemporary light. Go directly to the Art – Story Telling with Bridget March show here Go directly to the Contemporary Art show with Suzanne Lecht here So check those episodes out with Bridget March and Susan Lecht. I think you're really going to get a lot out of them. And a podcast that talks about travel in Vietnam would nowhere near be complete if we didn't cover food. And during the year, I was able to get on the show some really interesting people to give us some of the diversification in food that you can find in Vietnam, and also just how food and the flavors and the influences change from south to central to north. We touched on street food and we did a great story with Corin Carlson and really went deep on the food options available in Hanoi. And she was fabulous in sharing some great bites, great places to go. And then we went a little bit upscale and I had Raj Taneja on and just his input in talking about the development of fine dining in Vietnam and where that is heading and his involvement with La Chaine des Rotisseurs and just, you know, I think that was insightful for me, especially as I probably had focused more of my time in previous visits on street food and cute local cafes. Go directly to the Hanoi Foodie shows here – 1 Go directly to the Hanoi Foodie shows here – 2 Go directly to Fine dining show here Kerry Newsome: [00:22:04] So to step up into fine dining, I think is definitely an episode you need to check out. I hope you enjoy the foodie episodes that we have coming up as well. So stay tuned for 2023, Another episode, which I got to do with a lovely lady who plans weddings. So I know it's early in the year and it's a good idea to put this in my recap and to talk about because, you know, I think in the beginning of the year, we do like to make plans and plans maybe, you know, long way down the track. So, if you are considering a destination for a wedding, I really invite you to have a listen to the wedding podcast that we did. And I think you're going to be quite surprised at just what's available and just the value that is there for people and the variety of experiences that you can offer in your wedding and obviously allure your guests. So maybe check out if you're thinking about planning a wedding to go to that podcast. Go directly to Wedding show here The other area, which I really did need an update on was Nha Trang, and I did that with Colm Hutchinson and Colm works in the media and advertising and marketing industry. Kerry Newsome: [00:23:40] He's now living there as an expat, married with two beautiful children, and he was able to give a really good list of some of the things that you can. Do in Nha Trang. Gosh, I hadn't been there since about 2014, so I knew I was out of date with how the location had developed. So from hotels to experiences, I think we got a list together about ten things. So if you want to consider Nha Trang as a bit of an offshoot for some experiences with family, with snorkeling and with water sports and culture, I really suggest that you have a look at the Nha Trang episode we did with Colm. Go directly to the Nha Trang show here In addition, we kind of jumped to experiences and some of the things that are really coming on in Vietnam. And one of those is the craft beer scene. And I got to talk to Gary Bett in Da Nang, and Gary is the founder and the head brewer of the Five Elements Brewing Company. And Gary was really insightful about craft beer. I mean, I know very little about craft beer as a beverage. But just getting to understand some of the Vietnamese influences and flavors available and just the scene itself and how it's growing and developing was enlightening, to say the least. So once again, if you want to have a look at the craft beer scene and look at some of the big players across all the major cities in Vietnam, I'd invite you to have a listen to that one. Go directly to the Craft Beer show here Kerry Newsome: [00:25:35] We also had some time with a really interesting chap who knows the history of the city of Hue, the Imperial city of Hue, and why its extremely popular for its food, its perfume River, the Citadel and deep, deep history. And he was able to really explain it in a way that gave context to some things and some images that you might see about the city. And I'm sure you're going to really enjoy that one. If you'd like to know more about Hue. Go directly to the Hue show here We also were able to look into some islands and one of the set of islands which comes, you know, up quite a bit now and has certainly done so in the last four or five years. And that's the Con Dao Islands. And I was able to do that with a guy who just did it by impulse. He went there with a group of friends & he was able to share with us just some of the things that took him by surprise. And one of those things was possibly the underdevelopment of the region. And whilst there is plenty of places to stay, you'll find that from his aspect, he really enjoyed its uniqueness in beauty, its quietness, its serenity and just some of its complex history. So that's another one to check out. Go directly to the con Dao Island show here And then we jump to a really interesting subject, the subject of being a solo traveller to Vietnam. And I got to do that with Camellia Dinh and Camellia and I have done some work together and she was able to kind of express the differences between her travelling as a Vietnamese solo traveller versus mine as a solo traveller, which, you know, I do more often than not. Kerry Newsome: [00:27:49] And it was just intriguing to hear how her perceptions are not that different from mine and to learn that she just feels as safe as I do when I travel to Vietnam. I mean, no city is absolutely 100% perfect, but the crime rate in Vietnam is what I would say, considerably lower than many other Asian countries. And I think using common sense, as we say, always in travel, you know, you can feel that you can do most things in Vietnam feeling very safe. One to definitely want to check out. I had some great feedback from some female solo travellers in particular over the Christmas break saying that they were inspired to go after listening that. So that was really terrific to get. Go directly to the solo traveller show here And we finished up the year talking about a beautiful place called Ninh Binh, you know, a place just a couple of hours out of Hanoi. It is often compared to Ha Long Bay but the Halong Bay on land. It's quite mystical. Jack Taylor talked about his visit there. He did some beautiful drone photography and all in all, I think it was worth getting some insights about this place for you to get some comparison, I guess, to Ha Long Bay. Kerry Newsome: [00:29:25] They are both beautiful sights to visit, but even in their classic beauty, they have some distinguishing differences, which, you know, will appeal to one person, possibly more than the other. So it was a big year. And we got to we got to get through the post COVID tensions. And we talked about just how we saw travel evolving and how we saw the country opening up. The visa status is pretty much set at the moment. I mean, I'm talking to you now in January 23, and we do have the visa free countries and the evisa status for 80 countries. So, you know, it is pretty set at the moment, but it may change. I know there's been lots of conjecture about that and it's a bit of a “watch, wait and see”. And I'll certainly be keeping you up to date on that if and when that changes. As I said at the very beginning of today's podcast, I do really want to make the show about YOU this year. So, I really impress upon you to reach out to me. You can do that through the website. You can do that direct at what about whataboutvietnam@gmail.com and you know, suggest a subject, if you have a concern, if you have a response to one of the podcasts that I've done that you know, you'd like extra information. I'm happy to respond. I try and get to everyone I can, you know, personally and give you the best of my knowledge. Kerry Newsome: [00:31:21] If I don't have the knowledge, you can be damn sure I'll be going out to find it. I wish everyone a very happy, prosperous, safe, healthy, 3023 and I do hope the podcast does continue to inspire you to visit the country as it is evolving. It is a beautiful country, and if it's not the food, the people and the landscape that get to you, I'm sure you're going to find an experience that will and will keep in your memory for a very long time. I can't let you go just yet. I just wanted to tell you a little bit about the book that I released in December 22 called Book, Pack & Stay - A Travel Guide to Vietnam This is the link to Amazon. It's a very different style of travel guide book in the sense that it's not a destination guide book. It's more about the things that you need to look for when you are booking your tour, thinking about the kind of trip that you want to design. And you know, when you're sitting down with a travel agent or you're looking to do it yourself online, you've given some thought to the kinds of experiences that you want to have because depending on what time of year and those destinations that you choose, you really do need to kind of manage your expectations a little bit. So, you know, time wise, you've got enough time to enjoy it all and you know, you've got the right weather and the right conditions. Kerry Newsome: [00:33:16] We talk about in the book about what to pack the right kind of apps and bits of research that will help you in enjoying the trip and being well prepared for the trip. I don't know. So many times I've seen people with the wrong shoes or the wrong clothes or just feeling the heat, and some of these things can be managed so much better with a little bit of insight. And then, of course, your stay, what to expect. You know, you're going to trip over wires. You're going to see thousands of motorbikes. And just I hope the guidebook is going to help you understand that, kind of get it in context and some tips and hints on just being able to make your stay is so much more enjoyable. So that's the book Pack and Stay Travel Guide to Vietnam. It's a nice easy price of $4.99. So not a huge expense. You'd have it on your phone and you're always going to be able to interact with that with the links to various apps, videos, podcasts and of course, Amazon is going to allow you to do that very easily. Please send me any feedback or suggestions as I will be updating this version later in the year because Vietnam is just that country. It's evolving fast and I want to make sure I get you the information you need that's relevant at the time. Thank you very. Kerry Newsome: [00:34:50]. Check out the episode notes for more information. What about Vietnam? Don't forget to subscribe, write and review, and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam. Time stamps 2.35 – The year ahead 4.58 – Where to go for more in-depth information 10.54 – The year in Review – The comedy scene Saigon 12.07 – The language learning series of shows 12.54 – Phong Nha Caves show 14.07 – Wellness 16.02 – Phu Quoc 16.40 – Teenager Show 19.00 – Art in storytelling and Contemporary art of the future 20.15 – Food shows 21.00 – A wedding planner story 23.00 - Nha Trang 25.00 – Craft beer scene 25.35 – Hue 26.10 – Con Dao Islands 27.00 – Solo Travel in Vietnam 29.00 – Ninh Binh

S4-07 Hue the city Past Present Future Hue the city - past present and future Episode 7 S4-07 Hue the city Past Present Future 00:00 / 47:30 Hué is a city not to be missed on your journey throughout Vietnam. Boasting a patchwork of imperialism and French colonialism you will find yourself delving back hundreds of years as you explore the legacy of war and a dynasty spanning 13 generations. It’s a fascinating place. Quite beautiful as you find beaches and a river safe enough now to swim in. Over a 3-4 day visit you can take your time meandering through the countryside discovering historical relics and pagodas dating back to the 18th century. You will be charmed by the river, the paddies fields and local museums, plus you will gain a whole new perspective of some of the hardest fought battles in the American war. My guest is Norwegian born expat Anders Krystad who found his new home in Hué nearly 20 years ago. He took it upon himself to write a very detailed guide book just prior to Covid, which is the reason why I knew he was the right person to talk about this famous city. If it’s history you are into, then this show will give you some context to some of the major attractions and sites in Hué that you won’t want to miss. Find out more about Hue from one local that really knows this place inside out:- 6.50 Geography 10.49 The Forbidden city – The Citadel 14.21 Emperors tombs 15.28 Thien Mu Pogada 17.43 The perfume River 21.33 Best areas to stay 22.12 Bunker Hill 23.35 Famous foods to try 34.23 Best time of year to visit 37.16 Thuy Tien Lake – Abandoned theme park 39.20 Train travel to Hue 41.46 Accommodation Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

S5-E7-- The Rise of Unique Dining Experiences in Vietnam What About Vietnam – S5- E7 - The Rise of Unique Dining Experiences in Vietnam Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to What About Vietnam. So here we are folks, we're in the silly season. We're in December, Christmas not far away and as per usual we're all going a little bit crazy as we're trying to figure out we're going to have a holiday? How are we going to get together with friends and family? And we're thinking about Christmas dinner and food. So, I wanted to finish up the year with a show that would be speaking to, you know, some of the fun things that we can do with food. And in particular, I want to talk to you about where food culture, trends, where the vision of food is kind of heading in Vietnam. Because if you were to think about Vietnam in just the sense of street food, you would be seriously doing it a disservice because it has exploded in the last few years with new kinds of experiences and the flavors, the new chefs, the variety of mixing and matching with food and beverages. And I wanted a guest on the show that could really speak to that with authority. And I'm delighted to have Jovel Chan on the show. I want to tell you a bit about. Jovel comes with a very strong background in this area. In the last three years, She has been in Singapore as a food writer and blogger, consultant, culinary event organiser. But now she's really got her eyes set on Vietnam as she's based in Ho Chi Minh City. And certainly in the area of developing different cuisines and expanding the horizons, I guess, of experiences in restaurants with different chefs. That focus is primarily in Saigon and in Hanoi. In the last three years, she's actually been tracking the ins and outs of the industry, covering trends, you know, like new openings and happenings, and sharing them through her blog, chevellecharm.com. She became the first Vietnam food and beverage consultant for the Singapore tourism board, adding to an already stellar F&B client suite. She recently founded Saigon Social. Now that comes with some really clever and unique experiences. She's got the Saigon Supper Club, things like cocktail cinemas. And she's really into a very creative sense of connecting with people, sharing great food, sharing great beverages as well, you know, with different gins and craft beers and wine, etc. You're really in for a treat in this show. That's all I can say. It's just something that I think is going to really just put that extra spice of insight into the food scene and hopefully get you even more excited about your trip to Vietnam. Before we jump in, I wanted to just say a quick Merry Christmas and Happy New Year . This is actually the last show for the year. I'm taking a short break and I'll be back on your podcast channel early February . It's a break I really need to have. I've got, you know, lots of things I need to do. I've got a family that I want to have some downtime with and just all of those things are going to make it so that when I come back in 24, I'm refreshed and ready to go. And I have a really exciting plan for the shows next year. So I hope you'll stick with the podcast because there's lots of wonderful stuff happening. I hope you are going to have a wonderful Christmas yourselves. I really thank you for your support over the year. I hope you're enjoying the program. Please sing out if there is a subject matter or something in particular that you'd like to talk about. I'm always I'm always ears and I love to get your feedback. Anyway, I'm talking too much, taking up too much time on this. I want to introduce you to Chevelle. Let's welcome her to the program. Jovel Chan : Great to be here. Great to be here. Kerry Newsome : We've got a lot to talk about. So maybe if we can dive in really early and just get your take on where you think Vietnamese cuisine is heading? What can we expect to experience with cuisine in Vietnam in the future? And yeah, just give us a little look through that peephole to see what's ahead. What can we expect to find when we visit Vietnam? I know my travellers are going to want to know where to go, where to eat. Jovel Chan: I definitely believe that we are at just the start of seeing where Vietnam's dining scene can go. In the past few years post-pandemic, we did see a lot of chefs, both from Vietnam and also from overseas, come into Vietnam, notably Saigon and Hanoi, to set up shop and start catering to hungry tourists and also curious locals who are interested to experience differently and both of them are looking for something beyond just street food itself. I foresee with more five-star hotels also entering Vietnam. and a lot more malls that are also opening up in Vietnam, what you start to see is a very diverse dining scene of different kinds of cuisines, but also at the same time a lot more, a lot better quality. I think it's just a lot more refined and it's a lot more, for the lack of a better word, it's a lot better quality, better dining in terms of interiors, in terms of, you know, even the food itself and also down to service and yeah, the entire experience of dining out. Kerry Newsome : Now, I've heard you say, and I'm cheating here, I've heard you describe the food scene in three words. And I'll give you those three words back and you can maybe expand on them for our guests. So, the first one you mentioned was the dining scene is very hungry. So, describe for us what you mean by hungry. Jovel Chan: So I've been writing a monthly new openings guide in Saigon where I cover new restaurants for the past almost two years. And it's very safe to say that there has been no shortage of new restaurants entering the market even during the pandemic. And it's almost double or triple the rate that it was for obvious reasons during the pandemic versus now since. And this month, I just rallied up not just new restaurant openings, but I also started doing pop-ups, chef residencies and chef pop-ups. So what I mean by when they are hungry, it's really, first and foremost, everybody wants to open up a restaurant. There's so much talent that is happening, there's so many things that are happening. And it's not just opening a restaurant, it's just everybody also wants to come here and try to do something, you know, they're popping up, they're collaborating with each other. You've got chefs from abroad that are doing things here, there's always just something happening. And it's always new. So everybody wants a piece of the pie right now. Kerry Newsome: And that's what I mean by that's really interesting. And I can kind of see that myself, even between visits. I only, you know, like I visit three times a year at least. And even in that three, four months away, I come back and there's something new. There's that place that's just opened up around the corner where it wasn't there when I was there last trip. It's quite amazing. And as you say, it's in the decor, you know, it's in the actual you know, layout and design, the way the tables are set. I love the creativity that is also coming about, which is absolutely fabulous. And then, as you say, the chefs, the new chefs, homegrown chefs, too, that are coming through. So, it's really exciting. You've got another word that you use to describe, and I'd like you to expand on that one, and that's defiant. I love that word, defiant. Jovel Chan: That's your favourite word, isn't it? Kerry Newsome : Maybe I kind of align myself to that. Jovel Chan: So, yeah, so rightfully so, like what I mentioned, the industries also, the chefs themselves are very defiant. So, you know, what we see as creativity to them is kind of like, you know, they're trying to take back something, right? So, I think a lot of them, they don't want to be defined by Vietnamese cuisine. Ironically, but they don't want whatever people think about them to just be limited to banh mi and pho. Because to so many of these homegrown chefs, Vietnamese cuisine and ingredients are able to compete with the likes of cuisine in Japan, of ingredients in Japan, where people treat Japanese cuisine as a premium cuisine. So to many of them, you can hear them say, you know, the number of hours that we take to make pho and what goes behind making a simple bowl of pho like this is the same as making a bowl of ramen, yet nobody is giving us the same credit or willing to pay what people pay for ramen in Japan. So there is this defiance and this is fueling a lot of chefs behind these finer dining kitchens to showcase and storytell about Vietnamese cuisine. Kerry Newsome : Yeah, and I think it's we do need to be careful about stereotyping Vietnamese food. I mean, I even get asked, you know, like, what happens if when I go to Vietnam, I don't like Vietnamese food? And it's like, well, there's, it's a multicultural city that you're visiting. So, you can get any cuisine in the world from pizza to you know, to Greek, to Italian, to whatever. So, you know, don't think of Vietnamese, as you say, just limited to what you know at this point. You know, keep an open mind, coming to the country and, you know, be open to try these new restaurants with these different fusions of flavors and just experiment with the new dining scene. I think that's what's key for people is to experiment. Because you talk about, you know, in your third word, which is nascent, you know, I mean, that deserves definite explanation. Jovel Chan: So Vietnam's dining scene really, really I would say picked up in the last number of years. This isn't to say that there weren't restaurants before, of course there were restaurants before, but dining as a culture in Vietnam with more than just maybe a burger joint or you know the Park Hyatt Saigon and and the ubiquity of it now, and the price that it's now accessible at. I was just writing an article yesterday where 10 to 15 restaurants on it were in the range of 300 to 500k. That's less than $20. So you now have these chefs who are coming in and doing such great things and serving up food where people can enjoy at 300, 500k. It's still a lot higher, but it's a lot less. Before you had dining where it was 2 million. Now it's becoming a lot more affordable and it's a lot more accessible, right? And that's what I mean by the dining scene is it has just really started in the past number of years where people are actually dining out and there is a dining out culture. where people are able to start going out maybe even twice a month and that's something that's within their means. But this only really started in the past two years or three years or so after the pandemic fueled by the likes of the Michelin. So that's what I mean by it's really, really nice and everything is so new and yeah, so much room for opportunity. It's a really exciting time to see where everything goes. Kerry Newsome: Yes. And so, you know, if you are a foodie and you're looking at, you know, your time in Vietnam and best places to go. Now we're talking about dining scenes that are primarily focused in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, aren't we? Which would you say would be the one, if you were a real foodie, to focus on? It's a tough one. Oh my gosh. Jovel Chan: I can't say this in public. Kerry Newsome: I can't say this in public. It's a hard one, I know. I really know it. But people say, oh, if we're into food, should we go, should we spend more time in Ho Chi Minh City or should we spend more time in Hanoi? And I find it hard to answer that question myself. You know, and while I can say to them that, you know, the cuisine in the North traditionally is very different to the South. You know, those, even those flavors have started to, you know, meld a little bit because, you know, people that are opening up restaurants in the North are opening the same ones in the South and, you know, vice versa. So, there isn't quite that division in the new and upcoming, certainly in traditional, there probably is more definition. But yeah, like, what do I say? Help me out! Jovel Chan: I definitely enjoy, you know, food from all the cities, but Hanoi, eating on the streets, but in Saigon, dining out. And if it were up to me and I had five days, I would spend perhaps a day or two in Hanoi and then come down to Saigon and contrast it, yet see those similarities between what you see from, you know, the traditional street food freight, street food favorites up in the north and then come back down with the understanding and the grasp of what it is to Saigon and check out some of the bars and restaurants and what people are doing here. A lot of what I see in Saigon, even on the street food, is that there's a lot of them that are also adjusting to cater to the younger people here, to the experts here. So some of the banh mi here, you see a lot more banh mi kebab here, you see a lot more innovation even on the street food. So I think heading to the north, get your fix, come down here and see how that's kind of evolving and moving a little bit. For a foodie, I think that's definitely like, you know, you can run the gamut from everything that's traditional and see how that moves and changes with Vietnam's growth. Kerry Newsome: That's a really good answer. I'm going to use that one . No, it's a really good way to explain it because I think there's some novelty factors still very present with the new traveler to Vietnam and sometimes, you know, the new traveler to Southeast Asia to experience street food, to sit on the little red chairs, to sit where, you know, the average local person is having, you know, a meal. with their family and, you know, doing some beers, celebrating with family, that sort of thing. So there's a really nice feeling about that and I think people are very keen to do that. But then, like you, I can go from that, and then I'm really keen to explore the wider circle of other restaurants and other cuisines. And as I said, their decor, they're really wonderful ways that they can use color and art and, you know, their designing is just fantastic. And I really, I like that ambience, you know, that way that a restaurant can make you feel like I really want to hang about here. I want to stay here. You know, I want to have another glass of wine and I want to have, I want to try that other thing on the menu that we didn't start with, you know, that kind of thing. You really want to invest your time and stay. So, in that vein, talk to us about some of the latest trends coming through that you're seeing now, you know, especially since the Michelin guides come out, that sort of thing. So, what are the really big trends coming through? Jovel Chan : Modern Vietnamese cuisine is very, very, very popular. Around Southeast Asia, there's a boom of Southeast Asian cuisine and chefs at the helm. And there's a much larger spotlight that's being placed on Southeast Asian cuisine and chefs themselves. So that's something that's also being reflected here in Vietnam. And when the Michelin came in, we saw three out of four of those one-star restaurants being awarded to modern Vietnamese and Vietnamese restaurants. So the narrative became one of going global by going home. Kerry Newsome: That's interesting. Going global. Yes. Jovel Chan: We saw a lot by going home. We saw that people, there was almost like, there was almost a, it's not favoritism, but a curiosity amongst people in the region as well as overseas who naturally want to come to a country and try what the modern version of that local cuisine was. And when they saw that awards were being awarded for such cuisine over perhaps some of the other cuisines, naturally, right? A lot of the restaurants had that signal to become, OK, I need to be more Vietnamese or I need to be modern Vietnamese. So even a lot of these perhaps traditionally French or modern French restaurants And the likes started playing around with, hey, we now use Vietnamese ingredients. Hey, we start, you know, a little bit, you know, playing on that Vietnamese card a little bit more. So because of that, we did see this year more than, you know, almost 10 new modern Vietnamese restaurants open. And we saw a little move even from those quintessentially Western restaurants into using Vietnamese ingredients. So that's a trend that I did see particularly this year. And I know that we will continue to see this trend for the next number of years because of these global movements. But also at the same time, like I said, Vietnamese people are very prideful in their cuisine. I don't see many Vietnamese chefs coming out and trying to do something else. Kerry Newsome: Perhaps not by choice. That's interesting. Very interesting. So, if we were to start looking at making suggestions to people about special experiences with food, And this is kind of going to be a little segue into what you do as a main theme. But like food, as you say, is becoming an experience to experience that restaurant, to experience that food. I'm seeing a lot more of the combination with you know, fine dining and then alcohol or, you know, different kind of combinations of that pairing where that was never kind of an option before, even just before COVID really. So, you know, can you talk to us about some of the experiences that are now coming through that people are getting excited about? Jovel Chan: So like I said, there are a lot more pop-ups and a lot more events that are happening this year. In the alcohol industry in Vietnam, we also had a gin festival for the first time a couple of years ago. We had a whiskey festival for the first time last year. So we're getting a lot more of this food and drink driven events and pop-ups that people can discover. A lot more restaurants are also going in the way of more fun dining than fine dining. So that's another trend that we see happening a lot more as well, fun dining. Kerry Newsome : And that's what I'm keen to talk about. Jovel Chan: Yeah. Fun dining is injecting an element of social and also it's just injecting elements of, yeah, mostly social and fun into the traditionally more stuffy, you know, concept of dining out. right? And the reason why that's taking off here in Vietnam, I mean, first and foremost, it's very much a global trend. I think the new generation of, you know, travelers, you know, with millennials or even Gen Z, they're going to high-end restaurants and going to your traditional like Ritz Carlton and stuff, it's not something that is really appealing to them anymore, right? Which is why hotels are also changing. Now you have younger and cooler brands, like the edition and the like, right? So the hotel industry moved towards something like that because they could see that these big name brands did not appeal to the next generation anymore. Exactly. But in the same way, fine dining and sitting down on the white cloth and having that table side service just isn't what that same generation is looking for anymore. They want to be at the chef's counter, seeing the fire, interacting with people and having these exclusive experiences that meant a lot more for them. It wasn't about going to these really stuffy brands anymore and saying that they were there. They wanted to be one of the only few people to have this really cool thing that was happening and experiencing that with their friends, perhaps in a private setting. So that's what we're seeing, and that's the fun dining aspect. And that's what also inspired me to create these experiences. Because personally, as somebody who writes about the industry and get invited to many of these events, a lot of these events were very stuffy for me. It was always a steak and wine dinner, and I would have to sit down for four hours and drink wine next to people I didn't know. And I didn't want to do that, right? And I saw that those were the only things that were kind of happening in Ho Chi Minh City and Vietnam. So I said, hey, you know what? There are just better ways to experience food that are more fun. but still achieve the objective of trying and experiencing this new wine and dining out with people. And so I created these experiences just to almost show the industry that there are just other ways to do things. And consumers would much prefer to attend such things. So we started doing that under this brand name called Saigon Supper Club. and bringing people together. And six months later, we've done about 10 dinners and dined at least 200 people. Kerry Newsome: And I think that that's clever. I think that you doing this in a social sense is really key because I think some of the the experience is like, I'll use the restaurant called, I think it's called Noir, the one that you go to in Ho Chi Minh City, where you actually dine in the dark. Like, you're totally in the dark. And funnily enough, a friend of mine went, and I wasn't able to go on the night, but she came back and she said, you know, out of the 10 courses that I ate in the dark, I couldn't even pick the whole 10 correctly. I only picked two out of the 10 dishes. correctly for the experience. And she absolutely loved about it. So, it wasn't just the food that was a great experience and fun. It was the fact that, you know, every other sense in her body was being tested to figure out the texture and the taste and, you know, what the smells were and things like that to try and figure out what that dish was. So, you know, I think that was one of the first examples I had of moving away from traditional stuffy type environments where, you know, you are just having one experience, which is just that set meal, to adding on another layer of the experience to have fun and guessing and things like that. And I see what you're doing with the supper club is where you're getting a mix of, you know, expats, some locals, some tourists, you know, curious people, you know, of all areas, regions who are coming in, who can get to meet other people. Because, you know, travel is about meeting people as well. And I think this is another lovely way to do it. So I'm really keen to hear more about that. Before we just jump into that, I'd like to, because my my listening audience, and I'm talking to you guys out there now, when you do come to Vietnam and you're going to be coming into the two major cities we're talking about, Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi. And people do, I know you ask, how long should I allow to stay in these places? Now, that's another interesting question to answer because if you do want to start enjoying the food culture and the food experiences, you'd need a few days to do it because you can't kind of gobble it all down in one day or probably even two days. So, you might need to allow, you know, some extra time in Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi to take advantage of these other aspects of enjoying Vietnamese food and the dining scene as we're seeing and talking about it now. So, if you were to look at… Let's do Hanoi first. If you were to pick a… Say, okay, Jovel, I'm coming into Hanoi, you know, I'm bringing my family, you know, we're really looking for a really nice restaurant, you know, we eat everything. So just, you know, where should we head to? Just give us a few and we'll check and see, you know, if we can get a booking and that sort of thing. So maybe, I went through your website, I found it very hard to pick which street. Jovel Chan : So, I think one of my definitely favorite restaurants is a restaurant called Gia. Kerry Newsome : Yes, I've seen that. That's Hanoi. Yeah. Jovel Chan: Yeah, so Gia is it truly is one like so this year it got one star but I visited them back in 2021 when it first opened and I knew that it was already something that was very very special because it does modern Vietnamese But the way they do it is really by… So in a lot of modern Vietnamese restaurants, a lot of the techniques are very much still very Western techniques. Kerry Newsome : But with a Vietnamese spin. Jovel Chan : A lot of the techniques are recognizably and distinctively Western, but perhaps the flavor, right? They've used Vietnamese herbs and spices. So in some of the modern Vietnamese restaurants, you can still see a beef tartare, which is very much from a French dish, right? But they'll use a Vietnamese quail egg. But in Zia, it is very distinctly Vietnamese. It's almost like imperial Vietnamese cuisine. It feels like that. Nothing really feels like it's from the West. It's just a pure elevation of everything that you've had in Vietnam, done in a way that is very noticeable in Asian and Vietnamese. And I think that's why it's so, so special. Kerry Newsome : Okay, so that's Gia in Hanoi. So what's the second one? Jovel Chan: Yeah, so Los Fuegos is a restaurant and it is a Brazilian steakhouse. I know it's very ironic, but it's from a guy and he is from South America and he spent quite a bit of time in Australia herding cattle. So he really knows his meat. And it's this really quaint little outdoor steakhouse space. And we have a very private area at the back where he has handcrafted this entire barbecue from scratch. So he's made it out of pure love. And it's such a nice little quaint space. And you go in there, and it's gorgeous, gorgeous meat and very, very well done. And more importantly, it has certain ingredients that are not particularly legal in Vietnam. And I don't mean anything, you know, like, too, too, too off the record, but they have like, you know, brain and certain, you know, innards, certain ingredients, you know, for some reason is banned. It's not allowed in Vietnam that he has it, which is a very traditional part of the cuisine. So I really appreciate going there and having that. And number three? Number three has to be, I think the cafes there are really, really, really good. I definitely enjoy the cafes there a lot. So if I had to pick number three, I would choose a cafe. Kerry Newsome : Yeah, but there's so many of them. I mean, I like some of the very well-known, even the Runam. I love the Runam. They are so quaint. Jovel Chan: Oh. Okay, so it has to be a restaurant. Oh, this is tricky then. Okay, I think one of my favourite restaurants in Hanoi then has to be, I think Labrie. Labrie is really good. L-A-B-R-I. Bistro. Kerry Newsome: So it's cafe, bistro, that kind, is it? Jovel Chan : Labri is dining. I've heard really good things about Chapter and Dung, but I've not been yet to be very honest. But I've been to Labri and I thought it was really good. Kerry Newsome: Let's move on to Ho Chi Minh City. Number one for Ho Chi Minh. Jovel Chan : Ho Chi Minh City. Kerry Newsome: This is very, very hot question to ask. When I get asked that question, I actually picked one of the Michelin star restaurants and that's Anan. Anan is, has never let me down, like seriously, anyone I send there just comes away with that many photos about food, even people that never take photos of food before, all of a sudden they're sending me photos of food from Anan, it's outstanding. Jovel Chan: Yeah. And then he just opened up a smaller, not a smaller, but a sister concept in the same building on the third floor. Oh, really? Kerry Newsome : Okay. I must check that out when I'm there. Jovel Chan : Yeah. So it's in the same building. It's got one by far, molecular far. So, you know, another place to stand. Excellent. All right. As for me, If ever the day Anan becomes really full and you need an alternative to send your guests to, my go-to modern Vietnamese restaurant is An's, a place called An's, A-N apostrophe S. N apostrophe S, that's conveniently. I know. So interestingly, An's is helmed by the ex-right hand of Peter, Kerry Newsome : Right, so a breakaway. Jovel Chan: Yeah, it's a breakaway, but the food is very different, I would say. Okay. Very different, but it's still very much modern Vietnamese. Yeah, with a chef counter and everything, it's a lot more quaint and less, I would say, creative and playful with the molecular and the one bite, but in the same vein as Zia Hanoi, it really elevates it from the core of Vietnamese cuisine. So it retains the sanctity of it a lot stronger. Kerry Newsome : The only other restaurant I have been in this sort of league, if for want of a better word, was A by Tung. That 20 degustation, oh my God, that was just outstanding. Jovel Chan : That's a really good one. Kerry Newsome : Oh my God, I was just in awe. I was totally in awe by that restaurant, but it's very expensive, but it's absolutely outstanding. So if you had a third, what would you pick for your third? Jovel Chan : A third restaurant in Saigon. I would say, oof, wish I had more time. I think for some, I always think, the place I always bring a lot of people to is Moi. I bring a lot of people to Moi, Moi Craft Sake, which opened up a year ago. Sorry, is that M-O-R-E? And M-U-A. Kerry Newsome : M-U-A, mm-hmm. Jovel Chan: Yeah, mùa is the word for seasons in Vietnamese. And the chef is a very, very talented chef that opened up the restaurant first in Hội An by the rice fields and everything. It's a very gorgeous restaurant. And then opened up mùa kraft sake, which is a lot more of like You know, it's very casual. It's like a hundred seat space in District 3 and you'll see a lot of people there drinking beer and craft sake. And this craft sake is made from Vietnamese rice and it's Vietnam's first sake. And it's actually really well done. So this chef, he loves Japanese cuisine and spent some time there. And he came back and created a menu that really nicely married Vietnamese and Japanese cuisine together. You've got that izakaya and you've got that street niao culture of eating and drinking in Vietnam. put put them together and pet it with beer, local beers and local craft sake together. So any point of time you go there, it's really busy. Energy and everything is really affordable. It's like, you know, that's in the 300 400 Raj telling you about So I bring everybody there just for like a good dinner so that they can still see what like Vietnamese cuisine can be beyond just street food, but at the same time, try things like they've got the tasting flights for Vietnamese sake. And yeah, it's always a good time. Kerry Newsome : Jovel, is there any particular sort of cuisines influencing other cuisines? Like we've talked about Vietnamese cuisine influencing some Western cultures, but is there some other cultures that are influencing Vietnamese? Like, is there some Japanese influence into Vietnamese? Is there, you know, some Korean influence into Vietnamese food? Is that coming the other way, working the other way back? Jovel Chan: I think Vietnamese cuisine in particular is very influenced from First and foremost, it was a country that was colonized its entire life, right? Vietnam was just continuously colonized by the French, obviously, you can see in the food, by the Chinese. And then you had a lot of people migrate out of Vietnam. They left to Europe and they left all over the world, the US and Australia. So when we come back and see Vietnamese cuisine, which is why I love looking at the dining scene, it's because when you see a lot of these restaurants, and depending on where the chef is from, most of the chefs, at least a year ago, don't spend time in Europe. So his food is Nordic. He calls it Nordic Vietnamese cuisine, right? Peter came from the States, Anan Saigon. You have a lot of these chefs, and depending on where they're coming from, it's influencing Vietnamese cuisine. And it's so interesting to tell people when you look at the cuisine itself, it's almost like a history story. Like you can tell exactly why. If you go to Ngo's restaurant in District 3, he spent time in Indonesia and Australia. So his modern Vietnamese cuisine and what he does is very different to what a lot of other chefs do. But everything, I went to a Vietnamese, a modern Vietnamese restaurant back in Singapore, and the chef went to the US and spent a lot of time working in Mexican restaurants. The food that came out was also very different, but still very uniquely Vietnamese. So when we look at Vietnamese cuisine, especially modern Vietnamese cuisine, those that are helmed by the second generation, like overseas chefs, right? grew up abroad and had to create and adapt to Vietnamese cuisine in that country, that also tastes different to whatever is from Vietnam. So there's a lot of these things. And that's why seeing the dining scene here, as compared to other countries in Southeast Asia or any other country, is very, very much reflective of that massive diaspora and in the 80s when everybody just left. Kerry Newsome: Our show is actually going to be the last show for 2023. So really, really… Oh my goodness. You are a Christmas gift, Jovel, all wrapped up in tasty food ideas. See, that's why I thought this was perfect, absolutely perfect. So, and I have so many travelers coming over for Christmas and New Year and then coming for TET and things like that. So, if we are to talk about, and I want us to explain, help me out here, I want us to explain just how Vietnam celebrates these Western culture events like Christmas because obviously Vietnam is not necessarily, it's a Buddhist predominant country. So, whilst it goes nuts in Saigon with Christmas decorations and Christmas fair, it's kind of still hard to isolate. What does Vietnam do for Christmas? You know, where do I, where do I book, you know, a Christmas dinner or a Christmas lunch or, yeah, can you help me out there? I really need some suggestions for Christmas fair and then New Year's Eve. What, where do people go for that? And then we're going to finish off and talk everything about that Saigon Supper Club because I think that sounds fabulous. I want to join. Jovel Chan: That's all right. Thank you. So let's start talking about Christmas. So Christmas in Vietnam, if you're traveling to Vietnam for Christmas, you've definitely got no shortage of options, especially in the hotels. All the hotels will do some set menu. A lot of them will also do your Christmas brunch. and a number of restaurants here and there, but in terms of a Christmas market or Christmas festival, there isn't something that exists here on a grand scale. You have the neighbourhood Christmas markets, which are a showcase of local artisans and brands that come to the fore, that are usually hosted by individual restaurants, like let's say Luzin, and stuff like that. There are small little pockets of Christmas markets, and I believe if you go along Nguyen Hue Street, you can see a couple of lights and a few baskets doing here and there. But if you're looking for a full-on Christmas outfit like in Europe, then you're definitely not going to see that here. Kerry Newsome: It's more the neon lights. Jovel Chan : But that's not just anywhere. Yeah, it's more the neon lights and, you know, the wiener house, Christmas music that comes on. And of course, it's always a party that follows after. So we saw that with more of the Western holidays here in Vietnam, like, you know, Halloween, let's say, or the like, are big reasons to throw a party. So, you know, head for dinner at perhaps, you know, one of the restaurants or a Christmas brunch to get that festive spirit. And then thereafter, you know, definitely I'm sure the bar scene will take that over a lot stronger than let's say the dining room. Kerry Newsome : And then New Year's Eve, is there any good spots for New Year's Eve? Jovel Chan : So New Year's Eve, similarly with Christmas, you'll see a lot of hotels during New Year's Eve. Mainly hotels, especially for brunch. A lot of restaurants don't necessarily do a New Year's Eve brunch, they'll do a set menu. Yeah, because, you know, wastage and costs and if you want people to work on these public holidays, you would pay them three times as much. At that point of time, I think a lot of the restaurants are like, hey, you know what, we probably won't get that many people because, you know, we've got our own festivities or perhaps they're not in Vietnam celebrating. So why do we want to do a brunch? So it's usually for the hotels to take over. Kerry Newsome : I have a prediction. I reckon in the next few years they'll be doing more around Christmas and Christmas lunches because the Westerners are coming and they've got to have Christmas lunch or dinner somewhere. And obviously places that cater to that are going to be in high demand. Jovel, let's finish up and I'd really like to throw it to you now to talk about what you're doing with the Saigon Supper Club, you know, just your passion behind it. I'm really keen to, because it's new and it sounds fabulous. So, over to you. Jovel Chan: Oh, thank you. So Saigon Supper Club are basically dinner experiences where people come. It's very much a food but also social experience where we host groups of 10 to 15 people in very unique spaces. So we've done ones on rooftops, we've done ones in farmhouses, we've done ones in wine cellars. And in the same vein as fun dining, it's to make dining fun. And we also bring people such as the bartenders and the chefs and they also all get involved to interact with the people and the diners and also showcase at the same time modern Vietnamese cuisine and also other products such as craft gin. We've done rum before, we've done chocolate pairing. So in this one little dinner, you get to really interact with a lot of things that allow you to also indulge in the food culture that is super new in Vietnam, right? The dining scene here. So that's what we've been doing with Saigon Supper Club. And we're in the midst of launching new experiences. We're doing Cocktail Cinema Club, where it's basically outdoor cinema experiences where we bring in our food and beverage partners. And what we're trying to do here in Vietnam is to create occasions for people to enjoy food and drink. Right now, you can only experience it within the four walls of a restaurant. But that's not how you should be enjoying or learning how to dine. or how to enjoy food just within the four walls of the restaurant. So we need to create these events and festivals and make it fun and attract people by coming out to do something new and novel, like an outdoor cinema on the rooftop in the middle of District 1. And through there, be like, hey, you know what? Here's a glass of wine. And get them to try new things in this manner. Otherwise, it will just always be stuffy. Otherwise, for the first time, people are trying wine and it's in a restaurant in perhaps a way that they can't afford it. So that's what we want to do. We want to make dining and drinking and going out and experiencing food very fun. That's why it was also the inspiration to create a lot of these events and experiences to just encourage people to come out, meet other like-minded people and build habits that encourage them to take the second step and make dining in Vietnam a lot more sustainable beyond just something stuffy like steak and wine. We're launching our first cocktail cinema In Christmas time, we're showing Love Actually. We managed to get it with subtitles, fully licensed. And we have an audio solution provider that allows people to just watch the movie with their own AirPods or earphones, you know, no crazy sound systems and stuff. So it's going to be a really, really… Do you have a date for that? We are finalizing the date with the venue at the moment, but once I do, I'll let you know. We will invite our craft beer and cider and wine friends to come in here to do You know, that's the place where people can actually try it in a very casual, fun and local way. Kerry Newsome : And I think that social interaction, you know, where you can, you know, you can stand around with people and say, what do you think? And you know, that tastes a bit like this. Did you try this one? And it's just all that sharing is so much fun and makes it just, I think that much more enjoyable. In just closing up, Jovel, is there anything I should have asked you that I didn't ask you when we're talking about dining and the dining scene in Vietnam? Should I have asked you something and I didn't get around to it? Jovel Chan: No, but you should be asking me, you know, when the next time you're going to be in Vietnam and go out for coffee, very offended about that. Asking me when you can take me out for lunch, perhaps? Kerry Newsome : Yes, I will. Definitely. I'm writing that down as we speak. I'm going to make sure that I put your links so that people can go to your website because your website's fantastic, by the way. It's got some great information and your blog. Thank you so much. You've really got some great information. So, people, get onto that website and check out. all her information on the restaurants. If you want some great ideas to share with your family, friends, or when you're over there, don't miss out on that link and it'll be in the show notes. Jovel, I just want to say thank you again for being on the show. You've been a wonderful guest and I'm just grateful for your time. Jovel Chan : Thank you so much for having me. Happy dining.

S6-E10 Why is Vietnam becoming so popular < Back S6-E10 Why is Vietnam becoming so popular S6-E10 Why is Vietnam becoming so popular 00:00 / 16:15 Series 6 Episode 10 Why is Vietnam suddenly everywhere right now? Not just on your social feeds…but in real conversations between travellers looking for somewhere that still feels exciting, welcoming, affordable… and genuinely different. In this episode of the award-winning What About Vietnam podcast, I unpack why Vietnam is having such a powerful moment in global travel — and why I believe this rise is only just beginning. From the shift in how Vietnam is perceived globally… to the incredible value it offers families, solo travellers, couples and long-stay visitors… this episode explores what’s really driving the surge in interest. Because Vietnam today isn’t just about ticking off famous landmarks. It’s about: • eating incredible regional food on tiny plastic stools • Value for money hotels at surprisingly affordable prices • beaches, mountains, cities and culture all in one trip • feeling safe while still feeling adventurous • and connecting with people in a way many travellers say they’ve lost elsewhere I also share what I’m personally seeing on the ground through trip planning conversations, traveller feedback, and years of returning to Vietnam myself. And perhaps the biggest shift of all? Vietnam is no longer simply being compared to places like Bali or Thailand. It’s becoming the destination people are choosing first. Timestamps: 00:01:19 – Vietnam’s rising travel popularity 00:08:11 – The value of travelling in Vietnam 00:11:39 – The diversity of experiences on offer 00:15:17 – Personalised travel and planning Vietnam well If this episode sparks your curiosity about Vietnam, you can also explore your own personalised plan by Kerry herself – Check out the page here - https://www.whataboutvietnam.com/series-6/question-9/what-vietnamese-dishes-should-i-try Do you have a travel question or wish to give some feedback? You have 90 seconds. Click to read the voicemail recording policy Previous Next

d32f2f19-abc1-420d-9521-8b3cf274c91fHoliday and save money on dentistry Vietnam Dental Holiday - save money on dental while on your holiday Episode 10 Vietnam Dental Holiday - save money on dental while on your holiday 00:00 / 29:34 Today we're going to be talking about dentistry. Now, who would have thought you'd be talking about "dentistry" on a travel podcast. I've added the session in because it's still a very important experience that you may want to investigate when you do visit Vietnam. Kelly McCarthy is my guest, she's a good friend, and she has been traveling to Vietnam over the past 15 years, as it happens, in the past six years, those visits have included a visit to a dentistry surgery in Ho Chi Minh City. Hear about the money she has saved and the great experience it has been. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

< Back Hoi An – Vietnam STREETS Oodles Of Noodles The VIP Noodle Tasting Tour Experience Highlights STREETS’ Oodles of Noodles Experience and the VIP Noodles Tasting Tours affords you the opportunity to learn all about Vietnamese noodles in a fun and engaging way. ● For people who are looking to learn how to cook ● For people who want to learn more about Vietnamese culture through their cuisine ● For those looking for a unique culinary experience that gives back to the local community and provides education for disadvantaged youth in Vietnam ● For foodies who love a bowl of tasty noodles that don’t come out of a packet Vietnamese cuisine is famous for its unique and delicious noodle dishes. Vietnamese noodles are made entirely from rice, reflecting the country's abundant rice production. As a staple in Vietnamese street food and restaurants, noodles are an integral part of the local food culture. What sets Vietnamese noodles apart is their freshness, as they are typically used within a few days and are not mass-produced. This freshness is reflected in the dishes made with these noodles, which are loved by travelers and locals alike. What To Expect Multiple Options - All About The Noodles There are multiple tour options that are perfect for anyone looking for a unique foodie experience. The Oodles of Noodles Experience is an hour-and-a-half, a unique experience centered around amazing Vietnamese noodles. Guests will meet and interact with Trainees. They will talk about the rich culture of HoiAn-style noodles. They will also make the noodles themselves, followed by a delicious lunch of the famous local Mi Quang noodles. The VIP Noodles Tastings Tour is a three-hour interactive culinary experience that has something special for each guest. Trainees lead you through a local market to sample delicious street vendor noodles. Returning from the market tour, guests participate in a noodle demo and hands-on noodle making, followed by mouth watering local Mi Quang noodles. As an interesting side note, one of the most fascinating aspects of Vietnamese noodles is their preparation process. You’ll learn all about that on this tour. In the markets, women known as "Noodle Ladies" make and sell a variety of homemade noodles. Hội An is famous for its authentic markets and the noodle ladies who sell fresh noodles there. What an amazing experience! For more information or to book click here The Oodles Of Noodles Experience Includes $25 USD ( Receive 10% discount) ● Interaction with Trainees ● Learning About Vietnamese Culture and Noodles ● Learning To Make Noodles ● Delicious Lunch Provided The VIP Noodle Tasting Tour Includes $60 USD ( Receive 10% discount) ● Local Market Tour ● Noodle Sampling At Market ● Noodle Demo ● Hands-On Noodle Making ● Mi Quang Noodles With the success of Oodles of Noodles, STREETS recently opened a brand new eatery, Noodle House , featuring “A Flight of Noodles.” This amazing dinner sampling features the three most iconic local rice noodle dishes; My Quang, Bun, and Cao Lau. I did a show with founder Neal Bermas, Everything You Didn’t Know About Vietnamese Noodles , where Neal shared about STREETS and Oodles Of Noodles. Neal explains, “The noodles of Vietnam are quite different. They form the fabric of so many of the great Vietnamese foods that travelers love to experience here. Whether it is street food, or in the restaurants, noodles are really key to the fabric.” This offer is good for 10% of the STREETS Noodle Tours. Use the CODE – WAVN when you book and mention this podcast

S5-E15 - Yen Bai- Discover luxury in the heart of nature S5- E15 – Yen Bai Discover luxury in the heart of nature Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Okay, so this is going to be a little bit of a curly one for everyone because I'm going to start to talk about in this episode a place in Vietnam that looks a lot like the hills of SaPa, but it doesn't have all that development going on. Now, if I can take your mind and your imagination to those beautiful cascading mountains, paddy fields, that very, very rural feeling, that totally unspoiled beauty. Let me introduce you to Yen Bai and the general manager of a property called Le Champ, Hylton Lipkin. Hello Hylton Hylton Lipkin : Xin chao, Kerry great to be here and great to see you again Yeah, it's it it's an amazing place to be and I think everything that you just explained I'm like wow I'd like to go there and I actually do live there. So yeah, you you're not far off in your in your description. Kerry Newsome : So I guess I want to preface it because why am I doing this show and you know what is it about Yen Bai that's kind of caught my attention? Well really for some of the reasons I first said, I have actually been to Sapa So I know quite a bit about the location. But this is an area which has kind of been quietly humming away and attracting the pretty well researched, you know, bike riders, local Vietnamese. And those looking for those spectacular views that we talked about, but they're not wanting particularly, you know, the draw cards like Fanispan and, you know, the cable cars and the hubba hubba that kind of goes with all that. So I want to ask Hylton a little bit more about this actual location so we get a feel for the locals that that live here and you know just a little bit about what's so special about Yen Bai and in particular Tu Le. Hylton Lipkin : So do we have two, three hours? Kerry Newsome: Yeah, sometimes we do. Hylton Lipkin : So maybe to be very honest, the way you brought that in and the way you explained it to everybody and the listeners here, it just made me think about when I initially arrived in this area. Like I explained to you earlier, I had absolutely no idea where I was going. Yes, I love the mountains. Yes, it's beautiful and I've lived in Vietnam a long time, but Actually, we landed up in this paradisiac, very open nature, in the mountains type of place. I had no idea what it was about. I came here and I remember my family and all we could say was, are we in Nepal? Are we in Nepal? Where's Everest Base Camp? So it really has that beautiful, natural, undeveloped, like you mentioned, type of feeling. Yes, I'll be 100% honest, we are off the beaten track. We're not in one of these major hub cities with, like you mentioned, all the fancy glimmer and glitz of some of the cities in Vietnam, but that is what attracts people to this place. That is the attraction, should I say, rather. It's a lot about nature. It's a lot about a beautiful place to be and a place to, you know, if we look from a wellness or a well-being perspective, find yourself, detox yourself, enjoy the fresh air, eat fresh food, and get away from the city. So, it didn't take me three hours, but kind of… Oh, we've got a bit to go, so hang in there. Kerry Newsome : We're going to dig a little bit deeper. Hylton Lipkin: Okay, all right. Moving on then. Kerry Newsome : Moving on. All right. So, I've just arrived and I've done a quick scout. We've been talking. The breathtaking views just getting here from Hanoi by road took roughly four and a half, five hours to get here. And that was done very easy-peasy, done with a driver that is actually belonging to this resort. So it picked me up from my hotel and I had a very, very comfortable ride here. Thank you very much for that. Hylton Lipkin: No problem. Kerry Newsome : Now, so that gives you a position of where it is, but maybe, Hylton, you can tell us a little bit about some other close vicinities, so people could possibly wrap up two locations in the one trip, and I'm talking about bringing in Mu Cang Chai. Hylton Lipkin : So maybe I can just explain. Normally when leaving Hanoi and moving in this direction in the north of Vietnam, the destination is generally Sapa. Going out, traveling on the highway, getting to Lao Cai and then going up to Sapa, which is very famous. In the middle, somewhere along the way, you turn left and you come along these beautiful winding mountains, mountain roads, which takes you up to where we are now, which is Tu Le. Tu Le is a very beautiful, simple village town in the mountains. It's actually very, very famous for its rice. They have this green sticky rice that most of the Vietnamese people actually know about and it's quite famous. People buy it and import it around the country. So that is a major attraction to Tu Le, where we are today. There's also Mau Cang Chai, which is just over the mountain, which is very well known in Vietnam for the beautiful terraced grass fields that go on forever from the top of the mountains to the bottom of the mountains throughout the year. You have the different seasons, you have the mirror season where they're full of water, then you have the green season when they're growing, and then you have the yellow season, or golden season as they call it, when they're harvesting it. So those are some of the major natural attractions that we have in this area, besides everything else that we've mentioned, just the beauty and the serenity of the area. Kerry Newsome : Yeah, I actually I had a bit of a joke with Hylton earlier. I said, look, I really want to come here and write my memoir, because it's just got that eerily like, beauty. And I can see that. I'm actually looking forward to tomorrow morning just to see how the morning breaks with the fog and just it coming up over the mountains because it is truly spectacular and you'll see some photos of my view from my hotel room and what my first view was when I stepped into reception. I just took that shot, that first shot because it was just so staggeringly beauty. And remarkably so to me is the untouched aspect of it because let's face it people like there's not many places that aren't fully developed. Everybody's heading in the let's develop all this beauty and let's you know kind of do that. So to find a hotel with such beautiful rooms and aspects to it is remarkable and to find it in such an isolated place. But I want to talk and Hylton's going to be the best person to talk about this. is to talk about the different kinds of rooms available at the hotel, because I'm only staying in one of them. Hylton Lipkin : Before I go on to explain the hotels, what the listeners need to understand is that Kerry is just staring out of the window. We're actually sitting in the main restaurant on the property, but we have this panoramic view of as far as we can see, green valley mountains and trees covered. And as we speak, I'm staring at her, but she's staring out of the window. So a lot of this inspiration comes from actually the natural beauty that's surrounding us. So she's not just saying that to sell the product. It is a beautiful place. And one other thing before I mention the different room types and what we have on properties, you also didn't mention the cultural history within this area. you know we are quite far away from Vietnam and from Hanoi City and throughout Vietnam there's actually a very rich culture of ancestral people who have very strong traditions and the government really doesn't get involved at all they actually respect it and even you know help them in certain circumstances and out here in Thule we have the Hmong people the Thai people and the Kien people and actually you know they don't speak the same language they don't speak Vietnamese they speak another language and they have their own dress and attire and you know it's almost as if when you're walking around in the street you think there's a school here that's wearing a very colored uniform but actually that's just how they dress so it's fantastic to see they're not wearing you know sports shirts I won't give out brands because then we should get money if we give out the Yes, we should. Or you know, or jeans or something like that. So it's actually beautiful to see. So it really just blends into the nature of the place and the simplicity of the area. With regards to our property, Le Champ , we have a hundred rooms. And they are diversified. We have an entry category, which is almost like a #glamping with a thatched roof. We will show that to you. Yes, I've got a picture of it. They're a bit small. I mean, everything's available on our web page. They're a bit small, but they really, everything has a beautiful view of the vista beyond, the green vista and the clouds and things like that. So we have different room categories, #bungalows, we have, that's called the Glenwood or the Glamour. Then we have the room that you are in and we have the president's bungalow or the VIP bungalows So we have a range of different accommodation, but very luxurious and again for this area. There's nothing else we are off the beaten track as I mentioned earlier and when you're driving through the mountains and coming here and you're suddenly and come bang, you know, face-to-face with Le Chum, it's like, where am I? Because up to now it's just been many homestays and very simple villages, and here we have this beautiful property that, you know, boasts a certain level of luxury. I think I'll be safe to say that. Absolutely. So, you know, it's really something special in a very quiet, hidden, like we could say it's a hidden gem, basically. Kerry Newsome: Yeah, and like, you know, I guess as a traveler, you know, I go to places and I automatically think it's going to have this and this and this and this. So when I arrived here, my expectations were of, oh, this is, you know, this is a four and a half star property. I knew a little bit about Hylton, so I knew it was going to be luxurious. But then what I didn't expect and what came from it, and he's right, I'm sitting here, I'm kind of blinded by the light to be honest, I'm blinded by these mountains and this beautiful quietness, where the hotel is offering something really quite unique and a bit standalone, like there's no other hotel in this region of this standard. Sure, you're going to find your homestays and you know, that's another map, that's another story, that's another podcast. But for this one, this is about coming in and getting that lovely luxury but without all the glamour glitz and all the rest of it that sometimes comes with properties of this standard. I want to talk maybe Hylton about you know, the kind of people that you attract to the hotel. We started just before coming on talking about, you know, who loves this place? Who comes, who are they? You know, where are they coming from? Talk to us a little bit about that. Hylton Lipkin : We need to be honest that we are predominantly a Vietnamese property. The property's been running for about four and a half years, run by the owners, local owners, so most of the marketing and most of the efforts have been placed on Hanoi. Like you mentioned earlier, we're pretty close to Hanoi, five hour drive, so for many Hanoians to come out and enjoy this, they do, as a weekend getaway, a public holiday getaway. So I would say that 85% of our clientele are from Hanoi, or the north of Vietnam. In that group of people we definitely have families, a lot of families. On the weekends we have lots of young children running around with their parents. We do have different activities here for children, so they tend to enjoy that as well. But it's also a very romantic type of isolated place that you mentioned. So, you know, we get the honeymooners, we get the romantic couples, we get the families. We do get elderly people, but you very rightly mentioned that There is a bit of walking to be done around. We are in the mountains and it is quite steep in certain areas. Myself being a fitness fanatic, I'm very happy with that. But yes, sure, when your knee is sore or you're getting older or you just can't do it, that definitely is a hindrance. But we do have that group of demographics of people. But over and above that now, that we've changed our marketing strategy and we've been looking in different places to market. We're starting to see Western guests, non-Vietnamese guests. Of course, there's the expat community within Vietnam that we also do attract, but it's outside of Vietnam. We have a lot of tour groups coming through. And like I mentioned to you this week, we had French guests and German guests. We had a gentleman from Saudi Arabia, the first in the year and a half that I've been here. So that was great to see him. So 80% Vietnamese or 85% Vietnamese and maybe 10% Western European, American, Canadian guests, and then maybe some Asian other guests that come in through there. So that's pretty much the mix or the demographics of what we have. Kerry Newsome : And I am going to support the, you know, I don't think it would, I'd put it in the class of elderly friendly. I mean, you know, I'm elderly. And, you know, I'm thinking of how many times am I going to do those steps in the next couple of days. So my knees aren't what they used to be. But, you know, I've seen other levels here as well. So I'm sure if you had some issues, and you mentioned that, So, I think great for the family, you know, they've got this amazing infinity pool that they would absolutely go nuts over. If you're an Instagram fanatic, oh man, you're going to get some amazing pics. And I'm pretty sure we talked also, Hylton, about some actual photography groups that come to photograph because there are certain times of year that these paddy fields actually come alive with green and yellow colors that are just, you know, they queue up literally side by side to get the best shot. Hylton Lipkin: But actually, like you mentioned earlier, sunset and sunrise are pretty spectacular. With or without the clouds, it's absolutely beautiful, you know. coming up behind the mountains, going down behind the mountains. Some days we have pink-red skies, other days we have grey-blue skies with the clouds. So it is actually very, very picturesque. Yeah, no doubt about that. Kerry Newsome : And I think it's funny, I've just finished doing a VTV4 show. I think it's called Culture and Connection. And they were asking me to talk about how I feel when I'm in Vietnam or what does Vietnam make me feel. And I said, beautiful. But I've got a good explanation for the word beautiful in the sense that when I am surrounded by beauty, I can't help but feel beautiful. It has that real rub-on effect that nature in its raw and its pure sense, it really does. And then even the air, you know, I've just come from Hanoi and just breathing, I feel like I'm taking extra gulps just every hour just to really get a full sense of it. So, you know, I'm not crazy coming out to Yen Bai and people are looking at it on the show list and saying, oh, Kerry's done a show on Yen Bai. God, what's that? You know, what could that be about? Because you're not going to see it on the classic tourist map. It's not there. And it's the reason I'm here, because it's not there. Hylton Lipkin : It is a new and upcoming destination, but I think I'm very safe to say that it's not going to become as busy as Hanoi. I can definitely say it's not going to become as busy as Hanoi. Thank God for that. That is one of the attractions to the area, the fact of the simplicity, the beauty, and the fact that there is no traffic. My biggest traffic problem are the buffalo on the pass going over the mountain. And the chickens. Yeah, I mean, a bad traffic run for me in the morning is children in the road, buffaloes, goats and sometimes baby pigs. So, I mean… It's a tough life. Different priorities. And, you know, you were mentioning as well, people are looking for healthier destinations, more open destinations, places where they can breathe and, you know, get away and detox and enjoy themselves. Yes, my forte is definitely in well-being and wellness and Even though directly this is not as intense as the last property where we were together in central Vietnam the elements of Relaxation and and fresh air and the hot springs that we have as well and the mountain food and fresh food is definitely there So whether you're a wellness fundi or not, you still automatically get that that infusion of being away being in a natural relaxing healthy environment whether you like it or not. That's a given once you get off the highway. Kerry Newsome: And I think certainly I can understand why the Vietnamese love it and it's a five-hour escape from Hanoi. So, you know, it fits perfectly in that long weekend or short break opportunity for Hanoians to come and enjoy. And, you know, that's kind of where I came from to visit here. I want to jump into food because there was a fascinating conversation I had about a particular specialty to the area. Over to you Hylton to talk about it. Hylton Lipkin : What's famous in terms of food in this area and for me very naturally just jumped out and went black chicken for me. We talk about all the time. She just did it again. Big eyes and a strange face. Actually, it's true. I'd never heard of it before and maybe we become very adapted to the areas and the things that are around us. But here in the mountains they have this black chicken. It's literally black bones, black meat, black skin. And it actually tastes exactly like any other chicken. But it's a speciality of this area. And I was also explaining to Kerry that we have different levels. So you have like the light black chicken, which is not really the black bones. It has normal bones like the chicken we know. Don't tell me there's a brown chicken. No, no, no. But then you get the ones that actually have black bones. There's no preservatives. There's no coloring. It's just a black chicken. Kerry Newsome : Am I going to see one here? Hylton Lipkin : Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going over the mountain, you'll probably see it. So for the locals, it's also an element which I didn't mention to you, Kerry. It's an element of wealth. Because the bigger they are and the more black they are and the further into the mountains you go, they're actually worth more money. So at a hotel level, we kind of get commercial black chicken. But you can go deep into the mountains with the Hmong people and they actually grow their own Black chickens that are a little bit more expensive a bit like, you know, like a more refined beef or something to that effect So that's one one element that apparently a well-fed black chicken on organic food That's what we want is a well. Kerry Newsome : I'm gonna I'm gonna go in search in the next few days for sure Hylton Lipkin : We're going to send her on a trip to find one and then prepare it herself. Kerry Newsome : I've got to get a photo for sure. Hylton Lipkin : The other element as well is the fish. So because we're up in the mountains and we have many fresh water rivers and fountains, they make these trout farms or salmon farms or sturgeon farms. So sturgeon is apparently an endangered species in some countries but definitely up here in the mountains it's in abundance. So not only are the fish healthy because they're living off natural food and natural mountain water with no pollution. But they actually are very popular here and not excessively expensive. So salmon, sturgeon and black chicken and then obviously like I think I mentioned before the rice in Thule is very famous. It's like a sticky rice. They harvest it and then they crush it on the side of the road. Actually guests can do it as an attraction and it becomes almost gooey. And then when they cook it, you have to try some. It's sticky. It's very similar to Thai sticky rice and it's everywhere. Every time you have a meal, you get this two-layer rice. So those are the main attraction towards food. There are many others. There's also bugs. Okay, let's not go into the bugs. Kerry Newsome : That could sway things the other way. Hylton, I want to talk a little bit just to make people feel comfortable and not feel like it's out of their reach. We talked roughly about cost-wise, when people think resorts are a way in. districts like this that's going to cost me the earth to do that. We kind of went on a range somewhere between $80 starting through to about $250 US per night. But what I want to mention more so is that you're a bit of a two-for-one man in the sense that you control two properties So not only by reaching out to the Yen Bai property of Lesham, you can also combine that with the Garriard property in Mukhang Chai. Now I'm going to make sure I put the links in the show notes so that you can do that. I guess what I'm asking you to do is to not think of it just as one place because one from the other is only an hour away. Yeah, an hour by car. So you could get in Mu Cang Chai as well as Tu Le in the same trip is what I'm saying. Hylton Lipkin : Many people who come out this way actually… Combine. Correct. So they would come to Tu Le, stay with us, go over to Mu Cang Chai for the day, visit and then come back and stay here and then ultimately head back to Hanoi or wherever it was. Mu Cang Chai is the big attraction area and it's really close and beautiful to get there. So, yes, I am actually the area general manager of two properties. Le Champ, the one that we've spoken a lot about, is open and been running for about five years now. Over in Mu Cang Chai, we are opening a new property called Garrya. And that will be opening in the next 60 days. Something very exciting under the Banyan Group. And a beautiful high-end luxury hotel. The prices are a little bit higher than over here. Or in Lechon. But very, very beautiful. So the idea is that people could then ultimately come to Thule, stay one night in Thule, move over to Mu Cang Chai stay one night in Mu Cang Chai Discover both areas and then head on back instead of staying in the shop for two nights and doing one day in Mu Cang Chai So we kind of combine them together Kerry Newsome: Hylton, if you were to do that kind of combination, could you kind of wrap it up with the car to take you to one place and then kind of get you back to Hanoi? Because that's really, I don't want that to be a barrier for people to get here. Hylton Lipkin: Correct. So we do have our bus for each property and we link them together. So as you did today, we can pick you up at the airport or we can pick you up in Hanoi itself. and then bring you out either to Tu Le or take you over to Garrya and Mu Cang Chai or vice versa between the two of them. So yes, there is transport between the two of them. Yes, we're in an area where there's not Ubers or Go or… No, there's nobody here, there's no Grab. I get it. There are local buses that continuously travel between all the cities here. But as it develops and as the new property comes online, we will definitely have more transport options for our guests. Because one thing as well is that here in Tu Le, we have natural hot springs. But in Mu Cang Chai and Garrya, we don't have that. So we could still offer that to our guests from Garrya in Mu Cang Chai. They could come over and use the hot springs for the day and then go back. Like you said, it's only one hour or one and a half hours by car. If you wanted, you could run it. It's only 40 kilometers. Yeah, I'll get my husband on that for sure. 20 up and 20 down. He'll be into that. Or you could cycle it. I've seen a couple of people actually mountain biking over the pass. So there are some adventurous people around here. So those are other options as well. Kerry Newsome : Thanks so much for coming on the show. I couldn't have done this area justice without you. Hylton Lipkin : It's my pleasure and you know it's always great to see you and thank you for everything you're doing for promoting Vietnam and you know especially for us here in Yen Bai or Tu Le and Mu Cang Chai. It's great for people to discover us and get to come out and enjoy this beautiful area, this beautiful region which is not really that popular but well worth the visit. Kerry Newsome : Absolutely, I concur.

5497c6da-0f62-4f67-8da4-fe3c637ff35dTravelling Vietnam for the first time? What About Vietnam S1-E09 Vietnam Travel – First Impressions Kerry Newsome : Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. My name is Kerry Newsome and I am your host. Today we're going to do something a little bit differently in the sense that I wanted you to meet someone to talk about first impressions of Vietnam. It's a little bit hard for me to do that now because obviously traveling back and forth over many, many years, there's probably a big chance that I have become a little bit desensitized to some things and maybe don't notice them as apparently as they are for a newbie to the country. I'm really delighted to have Meghann on the program today, as her and Zach came to Vietnam in March of 2025 to do the Son Doong Cave Trek, which is a marvelous thing to do, a highly skilled thing to do for, you know, I don't, I wouldn't put that in the barrel of, you know, just something for the average bear. So, you know, they're skilled trekkers, they've done that before and, you know, they've got experiences to draw on to do it. But we're going to hear more about from Meghann’s point of view, just those first few hours, the first few days you know, traversing the traffic, ordering food, meeting some wonderful people, you know, getting their take on Vietnamese war history and understanding and appreciating the Vietnamese and their culture of forgiveness and just, you know, really starting to immerse themselves into the country and get a feel for the region, especially of Phong Nha, where I think they got to, you know, spend some quality time with some locals. Meghann is very honest and open in her sharing. She's got a delightful story, which you have to hang on for till the end, about souvenirs to take home. So, well worth the wait. But, you know, I put this in the Season 1 series because it's part of what I think you as a first-time traveler will get some benefit from hearing because it's not talking about Vietnam of old, it is talking about some of the aspects of Vietnam as it sits today. And I can't do that effectively without someone like Meghann who you know, coming from the US, coming fresh into Vietnam and Southeast Asia. You know, Meghann can do that justice where I can't really do that. But it was great to share with her and remember some of the aspects that I found, you know, way back in 2007. So, you know, sit back people. I've put a link to the blog that Meghann and Zach put together called The Grah Life, so you'll see that in the show notes that you can see some of their other adventures as well. Sit back, stay tuned, there's a great show ahead. Let's say hello to Meghann. Hi, thanks for having me. Maybe give us a little bit of background to yourselves, yourself and Zach, and yeah, we can take it from there. Meghann Grah: All right. So we are travel bloggers under, we call ourselves The Graw Life. It's a play off the good life using our last name. And we just have a love for the outdoors and inspiring others to get out there and try new things. And we're based in Washington State, so we are American. And Vietnam was like a very big, big trip for us. Kerry Newsome : Meghann, tell us the year that you went to Vietnam for the trip. And I know you did Son Doong, and I'd love to talk to you about that, but we probably won't get that in this show. But what year did you go? March of 2025. Wow. So, nice and fresh. Fabulous. Let's roll it back. Let's talk about your first impressions of Vietnam. And you can be blunt, you can be open, but I want you to share what your first impressions, the city that you landed into, your flight to there, because I have a lot of US clients. So, you know, Share away. Meghann Grah : Okay, so we flew in and out of Hanoi, and I'm not sure if it was the 20 hours of travel, but when we arrived, being in the city was just very overwhelming, very overstimulating. I was pretty tired of planning by the time we got around to booking lodging, so I took recommendations from a friend about where to book lodging in Hanoi. We went to the Old Quarter, of course. And they recommended this Airbnb on a street that closes on weekends and becomes a walking street. I was like, perfect. We're going to arrive on Friday. It'll be nice and quiet. And I had read that a lot of lodging is really noisy. So I was like, OK, even if it's not as noisy as other places, it's still going to be a little quieter if the street closes. And then we arrived. And they were having a celebration for International Police Day. I believe it was, there was like an entire stage set up that was like the size of a three-story building, like right outside the Airbnb. And they spent all of Friday practicing and doing sound checks up until midnight. And then at like 7 or 8 AM on Saturday, they started with huge drums. It was fine because we were waking up early that day to go to Hoang Bay, but it was just so funny because we were like, oh, like, you know, thinking like, we'll get a quiet Airbnb on our first night in Hanoi. And it was not quiet. I was going to say, um, I was lazy and I booked that Airbnb for the weekend that we left Hanoi to, like left the country. So that was our last Airbnb. I was thinking like, all right, it's still going to, you know, the street will still close to cars. Um, it'll be much quieter this time. There's not going to be a huge festival there. We got into town and could not figure out why there was just massive amounts of people outside of the building after it took us all day to figure out what was going on. But, uh, the building that's like on that end of the block was being demolished. or it was like set for demolition, I think later that month or something. Yeah, so everybody was going to take pictures and see the building one more time before it got demolished. So again, it wasn't quiet at all. Kerry Newsome: How do you explain that to people, that offense to your senses when you arrive into Vietnam? Do you think it's the motorbikes or do you think it's the sounds? Do you think it's just the chaos? Yeah. Do you think that's the overload? Meghann Grah: I think it's a little bit of everything, but it was also just like the amount of people there and everybody's on a motorbike versus like in cars. I've been to New York and there's lots of cars and lots of people. It seemed like Hanoi had more people and more motorcycles and maybe more noise too. So yeah, just more of everything. Kerry Newsome : Yeah. And as I said, I, uh, I'm bad because I, I don't really appreciate that enough for people. I think when I talk to people about their first time to Vietnam, I forget to ask them about those first impressions and to probably set the expectation for people that it is going to be you know, quite confronting about your lodging, where it is. And the other thing I think to add to this is that Vietnamese don't seem to notice it. You know, they don't understand space, like they don't understand the effects of whatever they do is going to affect another person. They don't seem to be able to moderate those situations for Westerners because it doesn't matter whether you're in a crowd or whatever, they can't conceive what would be upsetting you or what you would be struggling with or find difficult. And I know this because when I've traveled and I've had a guide and I've said something to the guide and said, like, why are all these people here? And he would say, you know, what people like, this is just kind of an ordinary average day. And I'd say, oh, okay. So, I'd have to kind of readjust my thinking. And that's why when you go out to some of the outer areas where, you know, you're in rural landscapes and things like that, you kind of breathe a breath of fresh air because you go, oh, okay, this is kind of more what I'm used to because there's more space, less noise and more nature to help offset the urbanization, I guess, of the city. How did you find getting around? Did you decide to just walk it and and kind of figure it out on your own? Or did you get a guide? How did you decide to navigate the landscape? Because you didn't have that long before you went to Halong Bay, did you? Meghann Grah: No, so we only had one night in Hanoi before we headed back to Halong Bay. So our trip was a little chaotic. I don't know if chaotic is the right word. I mean, I don't want to say not very well organized, But our whole trip was planned around when we were in Song Dong, the cave. So we flew into Hanoi, spent the night there, went to Hoang Bay, spent the night there, went to Ninh Binh, had one night there, then had to go back to Hanoi so we could catch a flight to central Vietnam to get to the caves, and spent two nights there. And it was just like a lot of ping-ponging around as much as like seeing as much as we could before we headed to the cave. Kerry Newsome : Direct flights because you would have had to get to Dong Hoi to get to Phong Nha caves and you would have had to go back to Hanoi to get the flight because that's the only connection that you can get because Phong Nha is sort of like it's relatively easy to get to but as long as you're on the main routes Let's talk about expectations versus reality in the sense of, okay, you're in Hanoi. How did you go crossing the street? How did you go ordering food? All of that kind of stuff. Meghann Grah: All right. We knew that crossing the street was different than here in the States. The traffic never stops and it goes every direction. I think the second time Zach crossed the street, he said, “I was born for this”. I love it. And meanwhile, I'm just saying, don't cross the street without me. And I'm like clinging to him like, wait for me. Cause I didn't like it, but he loved it. Kerry Newsome : I love that. I was born for this. Like I, because I'm, uh, I'm, I'm small, I'm quite short, And I mean, okay, I've got blonde hair, so I kind of stand out a little bit. But in the speed of the tracking, I've learned these really clever techniques about crossing a road. Because being small also, you can get easily missed walking across. So when I see somebody about to cross the road, be that a local or be that a couple or a group of people, I kind of jump in and join them just to create more bulk when you're crossing into that. And then my second technique is around picking my points. So there's no way I'm gonna cross five lanes or six lanes, et cetera. That's putting my life at too much risk. But maybe if I go further down the road, it'll be reduced to two lanes. And even though they might be merging, because there isn't lights or whatever, it means that there's less in that corner or less in that intersection. So then I can cross that with quite a good level of confidence. Meghann Grah : That's how I cross the street as well. And then both of us would also just try to be strategic around what vehicles were passing by. And if there was a larger car, you can kind of use them to block traffic for you in one way or another. So, yeah. But I did find that going with a group of people, whoever happens to be crossing, was the way that I felt most comfortable crossing the street. Zach was good to just go on his own. Kerry Newsome: Yeah. And because, see, the other interesting part about it is that people think, oh, there's cars there, so that gives it some sense and sensibility. It actually doesn't. The cars are the ones that can cause the most damage. And obviously they don't have quite the same agility as the bikes. The bikes often aren't going very fast. They're going probably about 40 K in some areas, maybe only 20 or 30 K. And plus they can stop, you know, like on a heartbeat where the car is bigger. The conversation I have with people around the people who drive the cars, is that some say people that are driving those cars are driving them like they're bikes, but being aware of the stream and the kind of car or bike or whatever that's coming down your way or coming towards wherever you are, this is kind of all happening in your brain at the same time, don't you think? You're picking your point, you're managing the whole situation around this would be a good time, this wouldn't be, let's wait. And so you're kind of adjusting to the environment without you realizing it, but it's kind of happening in the background of your brain. Meghann Grah : Yeah, definitely. I felt like it was, I wasn't ever so used to it that I wasn't realizing it. I was very much aware of being strategic and and choosing the right place and time. Kerry Newsome : And what happens with your brain once it starts adjusting to this, it also starts to become less sensitive to it. So you do become conditioned to it over time. You get into some kind of rhythm with it and it kind of calms down. I try to say to people, and we're going to talk about the food in a minute, but I try to say, just give yourself a few days. You will find there is, it might look like chaos, but it'll become organized chaos to you. And you will get to manage it so that it doesn't feel like such an affront every time you step out the door of the hotel. Would you say that's right? Meghann Grah: Yeah. Yes, definitely. And after you're there for a few days, you see how efficient the traffic is too. It's like, wow, everyone is getting to where they need to be and minimal delays, no stopping at stoplights. It's, yeah, it just flows. Kerry Newsome : And I like the, just the whole ease of it that you can get on the back of a bike. Like one time I stayed in a hotel and I wanted to get to a certain region. And it was kind of, oh, I could get an Uber and whatever. And I'm just chatting with the receptionist and I'm going, you know, I need to buy this. Where would I go for this and blah, blah, blah. She said, look, do you mind? I can actually take you. I'm finishing my shift. I've got a spare helmet. You can jump on the back. So literally, within minutes, I'm on the back of her bike. with the spare helmet that is from the other receptionist that's at the hotel. And then she's driving me through the traffic to get there and then pulls up right at, literally right in front of the glass door of the boutique that I wanted to go to. And I'm going, No parking station like two blocks away that you've got to pay with a machine to park your car or whatever. I'm going, I love this. A bit like Zach, you know, I was born for this. I'm going, I love this. This is, you know, kind of what really gave me a buzz. We're talking about, you know, ordering the food and things like that in Hanoi. How did you find adjusting to that? Meghann Grah : So I guess let's preface this. I have celiac disease, which means that I can't eat gluten, which is found in wheat and some soy sauce, stuff like that. So generally here in the US, I will look up a restaurant online and see what their menu is. you know, see if their hours say that they're open. Um, and just, just to know that I can like eat there. And, uh, so when we arrived in Hanoi, we did that and it's laughable now because the hours that restaurants say they're open on Google maps is not accurate like whatsoever. Uh, so we ended up just walking around and you find spots to eat, you eat, where places are busy, so food is turning over. Yeah, so that was my biggest thing. It was like, don't rely on Google to find restaurants. Just go walk and explore. And eating with celiac disease was really easy. One thing, you have to use very simple language. If I say, is this gluten-free, I'd get a weird look. Kerry Newsome : What are you talking about? Meghann Grah: Yeah, but if I said, is this rice or wheat? I would say like 75% of the time they'd say rice. I'm like, okay, cool. So it was very easy to eat having celiac. Kerry Newsome : What was your mainstay dishes as a celiac? What would be? Because I have the question come up a lot with people that have celiac or they want gluten-free or yeah. So this is really handy information, Meghann. Meghann Grah : Oh, good. I liked Bonsaio, the crispy pancake. Kerry Newsome: Love it. Meghann Grah: My favorite. To die for. Yes, it's so good. I think I ate that, I don't know, at least four times, if not more. Let's see. Oh, I think it's rose dumplings in Hanoi, or I mean, no, Hoi An. Kerry Newsome : Is that right? Rose dumplings? Yes, they're particular to that area, actually, the rose dumpling. Yes, I could live off of those. Meghann Grah: And yeah, just knowing that having dumplings at all is really cool and special because dumplings here in like the Seattle area almost always have wheat. So I haven't had dumplings in like 15 years since I became diagnosed. Kerry Newsome : So, because, yes, because I'm thinking a lot of what they make as far as like noodles are all rice flour. So that suits you perfectly, doesn't it? Meghann Grah: I honestly, I have not traveled anywhere that was like so easy to eat. A lot of pho, I loved that for breakfast. Yeah, just like spring rolls and stuff like that. Kerry Newsome : Yes, because it's good for vegetarians as well. Meghann Grah : We did a street food tour and it was really, really fun because we were trying things that we probably wouldn't have found on our own. and a lot of dishes, new dishes as well. But it also just gave us the confidence to try more street food and to be aware of what to look for. So I highly recommend that. It was really fun. Oh my god, we ate so much food. It was so good. Some of the bonseo we had on that street food tour, was better than the bon sale I found at a Michelin star restaurant later in the trip. Kerry Newsome : So in that, are you saying that it's probably a good idea to get on a tour or have a guide or whatever? Because I try to say this to people when I'm planning their trips. You don't know what you don't know. You don't know where you're going, whether or not it is the best place. It might say on Google. Do you really want to trust that? Meghann Grah : Yeah, I would say it's definitely worth it to book a food tour. you know, whatever kind of food tour you want. We wanted street food because that was like what we were most uncomfortable trying and wanting to learn about. And then our street food tour host also gave us lists of restaurants and dishes to try in the cities that we were going to next, which was Hoi An. And we would not have found one of the restaurants she recommended, like, you know, without her, you know, you walk into an alley and there's a restaurant there and that's like it was just full of Vietnamese people whereas like a block or two away it was restaurants on like the the main strip in Hoi An the night market street and those ones looked okay but they looked uh they were just obviously touristy and not the kind of experience we wanted And this restaurant was authentic. There were locals eating and obviously like great food. And our food tour host gave us specific dishes to try in each place. So we were like, okay, like, I don't know what that is, but it's on the list of food to try. So we have to do it. And that was really fun because we might not have eaten or tried those things had we not had that list to reference. What about seafood? Oh yeah. Gosh, we tried all sorts of stuff. There was a fish dish that we never caught the name of on the street food tour. When we were in Halong Bay, they served us lobster and shrimp. Kerry Newsome : It's amazing, isn't it? Back in Australia, lobster and crayfish is really expensive. I mean, it's good, but in Vietnam, it's just normal for people to order lobsters and crayfish. and it's so fresh because they've brought it in on the day. I love the food in Vietnam. Meghann Grah : The food is amazing and it's all so fresh. Here in the States, I'll buy groceries like once a week and you can tell that everything is, it's delivered that day. It was probably picked that day. And it's so fresh. It's a big difference. Kerry Newsome: It is. And I love how they use dining and having a meal together as a real celebration, like they really celebrate food. And you can understand from where they've come from over the years of hardship to really appreciate and there's a lot of gratefulness around food for everybody. So, you know, they do place a lot of emphasis and care about it and they love their food and they're really excited when you want to try it. And, you know, it's really a joy. How did you find just handling the pace and kind of, I guess, the social norms over there? Meghann Grah: I guess culture here in the United States is very busy, you're always on the go, you're always doing something. It was a huge contrast. The pace was very relaxed. It's normal to sit down at a restaurant for an extended period of time to eat your meal, or you can sit at a cafe with one drink for as long as you want. Yeah. We've been to Europe, so we've experienced that before, but it's still just as shocking experiencing it again after being out of that area for a while. So yeah, it was just very relaxing. And at first, it's hard to- Slow yourself down. Yeah, it's hard to slow yourself down and relax. But by the end of the trip, we were like, let's just go find a cafe and sit down and watch the traffic go by. And it was interesting because even though it was very relaxed and we had read that the culture was very go with the flow and timeliness is not emphasized or made into a big deal, like we had rides scheduled throughout the trip and every time we had a ride scheduled they were there like five minutes early so like they're very timely uh we had rides scheduled with um like different tour operators or guards yeah different tour operators and whatnot uh just because we had some some big rides so it was just interesting to have such like a relaxed culture but then like you know obviously you want your ride to be on time um we're like you know maybe maybe they won't be because the culture doesn't value timeliness as much but they were always early or at least on time like it was cool to be able to like depend on them when it was important but also to be able to like relax Kerry Newsome : If I think back to 10 or even 15 years ago, Vietnam had a much more relaxed approach to time. Schedules were flexible, delays were expected, and things just moved at a different rhythm. But today it's very different, especially in the major cities and key tourism areas. Vietnam's now handling a much higher volume of travelers with more organized tours, tighter logistics, and busier roads. As a result, operators have had to really sharpen up. Particularly the reputable ones have become far more punctual and professional in order to keep everything running smoothly and get everyone where they need to be on time. That's not to say it's the same everywhere. In a regional area, things can still feel very slow, more spontaneous. But in general, the country's pace has picked up and there's a stronger culture of time awareness than ever, ever before. So when Meghann talks about guides showing up early or tours starting right on time, that's not a fluke. It's actually a great reflection of how Vietnam's tourism industry is evolving and in many ways maturing. You do have to kind of pay attention, I think, to the local environment and get into the swing of that. Out of the places you visited, where did you spend the most time? Meghann Grah : Yeah, that was Phuong Nga. So our cave trip was Yeah, well, four days in the cave. It was like five days total. And then we had one extra day. We arrived one day early. So we had six days in Phong Nha. And the next place we stayed the longest was Hoi An. That's where we headed afterwards. And before the caves, we were in northern Vietnam and hitting up all the places. And we only stayed a day in each place. And it was exhausting. traveling between each place took longer than we anticipated. Google is not accurate again. I totally agree with you. I think if you're going to spend the time to get there, you should take a couple of days to enjoy it and get a sense of it. Kerry Newsome: The thing is, it takes you sometimes almost a big chunk of the day to get to the place. So you're arriving, you know, in the afternoon. So then you get the evening and then you get the day. But then at the end of that day, you're moving on and you go, God, you know, I just got here. Meghann Grah : The first half of our trip was too fast. And I, we loved getting to see Halong Bay and Ninh Binh. Um, but I like, we both agreed like, Oh, okay. If we would have had at least one extra night in each location, that would have been better. Kerry Newsome : And, and that's, I think, uh, the kind of, message I try to get to people about, you know, what you see on these websites and what you see. And even in some of the group tours where they're going, you know, it's like a bucket list of tick that box of, you know, Hanoi, Hoi An, Hue, Nha Trang, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, if you're doing all that in 12 days, it becomes a blur. People become exhausted. That's all they remember about the trip is the exhaustion, not the actual place. because they're kind of just seeing it through a very quick window. And I don't think it does the places justice either. Let's talk about climate, because if you've ever traveled in Vietnam, you'll know just how much the weather can shape your experience. Vietnam stretches a long way from north to south, and with that comes a lot of variation. You can be soaking up the sunshine in the south while it's still cool and misty in the north, or even caught in an early downpour somewhere along the central coast. For Meghann and Zach, they spend a good portion of their trip in Phong Nha, a stunning region known for its caves and lush landscapes. And they were there in March, which can be a bit of a transitional month. In fact, I was there 2024 and it was super hot, which wasn't characteristic for that time of year, but you get what you get. So, you know, March is not quite the dry season, not quite rainy, just that in between when things can shift quickly from warm and sunny to cool and damp. So, I was super curious, how did Meghann and Zac find adjusting to Vietnam's climate, you know, overall? And did their time in Phong Nha throw any surprises for them? Let's hear what Meghann had to say. Meghann Grah : Okay, so Zac does not do well in humidity, like heat and humidity. So, we chose to visit in March because, you know, in cooler climate, not too humid then. I think when we arrived in Hanoi, I think it was like really hot that weekend or something like that. I can't remember. It was like, yeah, or, oh, I think they had just had a heat wave and it was cold. Yeah. Um, but it was cold. So the locals were like bundled up and we're in t-shirts like, oh, this is too hot. Um, and I think it was 70 or It wasn't above 80, I don't think. But to us, it felt really warm. So it did feel like a heat wave coming from Seattle in winter, where it's no warmer than like 50 degrees in the winter in Seattle. That'd be warm. Yeah, it felt very hot to us. It still felt humid to us as well, even though it wasn't too horrible. So we had originally thought we'd spend all of our trip in northern Vietnam just so Zach wouldn't, you know, suffer in humid Vietnam. Spontaneously, I decided the last chunk of the trip after the caves, we'd go to Hoi An. I was like, you're just going to have to suffer. That's what we're going to do. Thankfully, they had a period of cool weather. Kerry Newsome : It was cold. I was there in March as well. It was cold. I had to buy a parka. It was freezing cold when I got there. It was early March when I was there. We were prepared. Meghann Grah : We had packed for all kinds of weather because the caves stay a certain temperature year round. So we needed warm layers for that. And then we were expecting warm temperatures. So we were totally prepared. We were really happy that it was cold while we were in Hoi An, but it was unexpected. Kerry Newsome : Yeah. I purposely don't go to Hoi An until I get that really nice temperature period, which is around March, April. this March, April of 25, it was really cold. Meghann Grah: Yeah, I did like plan that trip thinking, oh, we'll probably have a beach day. No, where are we going to the beach when it's this cold? So that did affect our trip. Kerry Newsome : If you were to talk to someone about their planning as a guide, what would you say about the North to the Central and talk to us a little bit about your Hoi An experience because Hoi An is getting a lot of traction these days and is becoming quite busy. That has a kind of a positive and a negative effect. So talk to us about the difference between the North and the Central area. Meghann Grah : Okay, so the first thing we noticed was the prevalence of English In Hanoi and the North, we were using Google Translate pretty often. If we got grab rides, they wouldn't speak English and yeah, so stuff like that. A lot of Google Translate. Kerry Newsome : Rural areas in particular, yeah. Meghann Grah : Yeah, and the farther we got, like down South in Vietnam, the more English was used and the more people knew English. So in Hoi An, we did not use Google Translate at all in Hoi An. And it was very touristy. Because it was cold, we didn't go to the beach. So it was like, there's a lot of shopping. So if you like shopping, go to Hoi An. Kerry Newsome : Tailoring in particular. Meghann Grah: Yeah, and we did get some tailoring done. So that was fun. And then we went to My Son's Sanctuary. Kerry Newsome : Marble Mountain. Meghann Grah : We didn't do Marble Mountain. The day that we would have done that, we went to My Son Sanctuary. And when we got back to town, someone was saying that it was foggy and they didn't see anything. So we were like, aha, we chose right. Excellent. But yeah, we just, it felt like Hoi An was much more touristy than like Phong Nha and Ninh Binh, even though like, Phong Nha and Ninh Binh, they have plenty of tourists there. But it seemed like the local towns catered to them less. In Hoi An, it's like everybody's trying to sell you souvenirs or food or whatever. And in Ninh Binh, you just got the local little grocery store, uh, tucked on the side of someone's house and all of the activities are very touristy and very popular, but it just felt different somehow. Kerry Newsome : It's a little shanty town. I mean, there's not much to Phong Nha at all. To me, it kind of, Phong Nha doesn't have any character of its own. It is there for the caves. It's the entry point to get on the boats and go into the caves and explore nature. To me, it's a nature town and you're going to be doing more things out on some bike rides and going up the Ho Chi Minh Trail and the caves and all of that kind of thing. The town itself is, it doesn't do anything for me, but the region, I love. I really love the region and there's lots of fun, the ducks. Did you do the duck stop? I probably didn't have time. Meghann Grah : We didn't, unfortunately, but we did ride bikes all over the place. Yeah, fabulous. Kerry Newsome : What would you say would be some of the things in your trip that you found the most challenging or the most difficult to overcome so that they can enjoy it more? Meghann Grah : I guess, yeah, just expecting it to be busy. And if you have a long travel day to get there, it took us about 20 hours to get there. So after that, you are going to be tired. Whatever city you land in, it is going to be overwhelming. And then just know that Yes, you're going to feel tired and overwhelmed, and then maybe the next day, that's when it starts to become much more fun. Kerry Newsome : So it's a bit in the planning? Meghann Grah : Yeah, and setting expectations. Just knowing if you have a long day of travel, it's going to be very tiring. Kerry Newsome : Is there any stories or areas that you feel are underrepresented that should be spoken about more? Meghann Grah : So we just talked about Phong Nha, but, and I agree, the town is very simple, but we felt like it was underrepresented just because there was so much history there. And that is where we spent the most time and got to, you know, chat with locals more so than anywhere else. So I definitely feel more connected to that area than elsewhere. It's just such a special area. The history with the American and Vietnam War is very intense for that area. If you look at a map that shows you what areas were bombed in the war, you will not see a spot that doesn't have a mark in that area. whole area was bombed. There's the Ho Chi Minh Trail that goes from Phong Nhat to Laos. We were told about how volunteers made that road during the war. They'd have scouts in what they called bird nests up in the trees. They'd send a signal like, there's a plane coming, which means there's bombs coming. the people working on the road would dive into little caves they had made in the side of the cliff to dodge the bombs. The plane would pass, bombs would hit, and then they'd come back out and continue working on the road to get supplies through that area. Kerry Newsome : It's amazing, isn't it? It just blows your mind. Yeah. I thought the same. Meghann Grah : told us about their fathers. Their father's job is deactivating bombs in the area. Kerry Newsome : Unexploded devices, yeah. Meghann Grah: And it's a career path to do that. There are still children and people finding bombs and landmines and getting hurt or killed from them today. Kerry Newsome: Or maimed. Meghann Grah: The history is very intense, and the people are so kind. Before we left for the caves, our guide is standing next to bombshells that are taller than I am. And, you know, showing us like these are bombs that were found here in Phong Nha. And they're like used as decoration, kind of, you know. But you can just tell that they're so proud of everything they've overcome. And they ended the conversation by saying, the war is over, we're happy now. Kerry Newsome: It's just so impactful. It is, it is. And I'm kind of glad, Meghann, that you got to experience that because I have as well. And it's quite, I don't know, I always feel quite moved by the capacity of the Vietnamese to forgive. They've had many an invasion of their country. They've had many countries try to take them over and yet they come back. And what's lovely about the country now, they've been without wars now for 50 years. So, you know, they've had some time to reinvent themselves, re-engineer themselves. So, some of the youth of Vietnam don't even really recognize some of the history. If you talk to some of them, they don't even know about the American war. They don't, you know, they kind of hear that from their grandfathers or their grandparents. So, you know, it depends what area that you're in. Some areas were more impacted from the other. You'll also get a different sense of it from the North Vietnamese to the South. The Southerners have another, you know, kind of voice on the subject. And of course, you know, a lot of vets come back to Vietnam to visit and kind of see the country and how it is at this, in 2025, in this era that they're living in. And, you know, it's remarkable how they have overcome and they're proud of their history and they're proud of their ability, I think, to overcome that. And I think a lot of that is to do with their religion. Also, most of the country is Buddhist. They just have a huge capacity and a wonderful spirit. And I always feel, I don't know, when I come back you know, to Australia and I see a lot of people whinging about stupid shit. I go, oh God, you know, like if you only knew how lucky, you know, we are to have what we have. Son Doong obviously is the queen of the tours. It is life changing as I've spoken to people. I've spoken to Howard Limbert on this show, who was one of the people that discovered Son Doong. So he was one of the British team of nine that actually stumbled upon it because it's not that old. My husband did the Tulane Cave Tour, which is kind of, it sits a little bit alongside the Son Doong Cave. I might even grab you on another time to talk about Sondung because it's pretty special. Anything you'd like to kind of add you know, like things you wish you knew about or, you know, that kind of thing. Meghann Grah : Yeah. I guess the last thing I'll mention is the best souvenir that we bought was a mixed bag of candy. And we just went to, I guess, I don't know what it's called in Vietnam, but we just kind of referred to it as like Candy Street. There's stalls with candy set out and they just have tubs. Kerry Newsome : Oh yeah, this is in Hanoi. Yes, yes. I have Candy Street and it's just one after another. Meghann Grah: Yeah, so we went to Candy Street and just filled up a bag and I think it They kept trying to get us to buy, I am thinking in pounds, a certain amount. And I think we bought like half of whatever they were suggesting. But just fill up the bag with anything that you think looks interesting because it's all going to be in Vietnamese or Thai or other languages. You have no idea what you're getting for the most part. So we just started filling the bag. After a little while, they started giving us samples, like, try this one. And we'd try it, like, oh, that one's really good. Take a handful of that. So when we got home, we shared that with our families. And we were thinking, this could be hit or miss. Either this is going to be really fun, or it's going to be terrible, and they're not going to like us. But it was really great. it was it felt like we got to share our love of travel of like trying new things and not knowing exactly what you're getting into um here at home it i think we got to share it with two different sets of people we thought like you know half a bag of candy is gonna last us like two weeks something like that no it lasted us like couple of days when we got home because everybody loved it. They were like, oh, I'll try this one. This one, you know, why is this one shaped like an orange? I don't know. Everybody loved it. It was really fun. It was a very interactive way to share our experience. Candy. Kerry Newsome : I have not heard that. That's, that's a new one, Meghann. Highly recommend. Candy in Hanoi. Yeah. Good to know. Any other advice you'd give people? Spend as much time there as you can. Okay, now tell people about your website. Meghann Grah : All right, so our website is TheGrahLife, it's T-H-E-G-R-A-H-L-I-F-E dot com, and you'll find us on social media under that name as well, on Instagram, YouTube, and Pinterest. And we've written about Son Doong, and Hanoi, and Everywhere that we've been to in Vietnam, we've got blogs on and packing lists and yeah, tons of information on Song Dong. So definitely look into that if you're going to hike. Kerry Newsome : And I really recommend people to visit their site. It's great. It's got some fabulous tips and I think it would be really helpful to anyone planning their trip. Thanks for being on the show. Meghann Grah Of course. Thank you for listening. Check out the Grah Life Vietnam here

81fddd7d-8d67-497b-8500-29c80f9e6466Leaving a positive footprint through social enterprise What About Vietnam – S3 - 7 Jimmy Pham on how to leave a positive footprint on Vietnam through Social Enterprise [00:00:36] Kerry Newsome: Xin chào . Welcome to What About Vietnam . Travel has so much to offer us. Along with all the great experiences that we anticipate we're going to have, especially when we're planning a trip to Vietnam, possibly one of the most significant things that we don't think about in the first instance is just what kind of positive footprint we're going to leave behind in the country. In today's episode, we're going to be talking about responsible tourism, impactful tourism, and social enterprise in Vietnam. I can't think of anyone better to open our eyes and our hearts to social enterprise than my guest today, Jimmy Pham. I feel very privileged to be talking with him as I've had the luxury of experiencing KOTO, the social enterprise restaurant and hospitality program Jimmy founded 23 years ago. I first recognized the restaurant and had a visit to it at the time. It was a sandwich shop at the time located just near the Temple of Literature. I've been back several times and enjoyed the food there every time, but Jimmy's going to tell the background story to that sandwich shop. He's going to share with us some of the visitors that he's had the privilege to feed, and just how it's grown and evolved to what it is today, and just how many street kids he's been able to assist in that program. He'll share with us how social enterprise businesses are influencing change and breaking the poverty cycle in Vietnam. He's earned many prestigious awards for his work with youth and communities including being awarded the Order of Australia back in 2013. In addition, he's earned many other prestigious awards including the South Korea's most coveted award for philanthropy - the POSCO TJ Park Prize in 2017. He continues to be ranked in the top 40 most popular motivational speakers by Saxton speakers. He's vice president of Auscham Vietnam. As a great influencer in the country, mentoring businesses and the travel industry to seek ways that offering charity to beggars may not be the best way to go. He'll help us better understand why we should be maybe more curious about ways that can foster a program or future for a person to become educated, so they can get a job and sustain themselves long-term. That's not to say that even looking at visiting different areas where you get to experience minority groups and putting back into those communities isn't also a great way to leave a great footprint. As Jimmy puts it, it's more important we leave footprints in people's hearts and look out for those opportunities that have a win-win scenario. I feel sure we're going to learn a lot more about traveling in Vietnam and how we can be that positive change when we visit. Please welcome Jimmy Pham to the show. [music] Good morning Jimmy. Thank you for joining me on the What About Vietnam podcast. These are certainly unprecedented times we are living in at the moment as a result of the COVID pandemic. I really appreciate your time to come to the show. [00:04:19] Jimmy Pham: No problem. Hi Kerry. Welcome to all the listeners. Thank you for having me and greeting from the capital of Vietnam. [00:04:26] Kerry Newsome: Look, we're sitting here at the beginning of August 21. Vietnam is currently experiencing its biggest fight against the Delta strain of COVID. None of us can ignore the impact of COVID on the health of Vietnamese. I'm hoping, in this episode, we will be inspired by you, Jimmy, and your achievements in breaking the poverty cycle in Vietnam. I'm very much looking forward to this chat with you. [00:04:55] Jimmy Pham: Thank you, Kerry. Thank you for having me by the way. [00:04:58] Kerry Newsome: Now, that leads me into a special announcement news just to hand. I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on winning the Waislitz Global Citizen Award. Now, this award, I understand, recognizes the excellence of individuals in their work to end extreme poverty. The Waislitz Foundation exists to create a positive social impact locally and globally through innovative projects that empower individuals to meet their full potential and make a measurable difference. Super congrats on the award, Jimmy. [00:05:34] Jimmy Pham: Thank you. You know what, Kerry? Just to add to it, Waislitz is also based in Australia. All the Australians when I spoke to them a couple of days ago, they were super excited since this is the founding of the Global Citizen Award. This is the first time an Aussie got it as well, so-- [00:05:53] Kerry Newsome: Oh, okay. That's fantastic. I didn't realize. [00:05:56] Jimmy Pham: This is for Australia as well. [chuckles] [00:06:00] Kerry Newsome: Yes, nice. That's fabulous. Jimmy, look, for everyone listening who's new to Vietnam and maybe learning a little bit more about the country through my podcast, could you please explain a little bit about KOTO, the social enterprise you started 20 years or so ago, and just how it's evolved over time? [00:06:22] Jimmy Pham: Sure. I'm Australian Vietnamese. I was born during a very, very tough time in Vietnam called the American War, called the American War, 1972. This is just a detailing of the war. For anyone who fought in the South pretty much knew that the North has won, and then it's time to flee. That was around the area where a lot of people were escaping. You see these horrific pictures of the rooftop of the U.S. Embassy, the helicopters and the tank going through the presidential towers, etc. My family fled. I was two years old. We lived in a couple of countries, and then finally, to Australia at the age of eight. We come from a very impoverished family. We lived out of coupons and all that kind of stuff because we have these six siblings all together. I still do believe to this day we're in a lucky country. We were blessed and surrounded by just wonderful people who helped us along the way. Mom always ensures that we have an education and a roof over our heads. I think that's the best thing I can hope for. I'm having that our values instilled in me and also that educational level and living in a lucky country. I came back to Vietnam for the first time working in the tourism industry. Vietnam was considered a third-world country in those days. When you see a white face, they're pretty much Russians. [chuckles] You would be considered to be Russians. Poverty was everywhere. So when you see street kids with ulcers and blisters and carrying coconuts that they got from the Mekong Deltas and walk for about 5, 10, 15, 20 kilometers a day and just to sell $1. It breaks your heart. I went for a walk one day during one of my visits. The walk back [00:08:25] that changed my life. I met four street kids. The following two weeks for me was also an eye-opener, but a life-changing situation. That four street kids I've met, I took them to get some toothbrushes and toothpaste and all that kind of stuff, and then ask them to-- I'm going to get them bún bò phở, which is usually the traditional Vietnamese noodle soup. Then, I ask them to come back the next day, and the next day, and the next day for the two weeks I was in Vietnam. The number grew exponentially, 4 to 20, 30 to 50. At the end of the two weeks, I took out about 60 kids to dinner. A coca-cola, an extra bonus was a real treat for them. There you see a lot of stories that you share in my broken Vietnamese at that time. Whatever it is, the most amazing thing about the Vietnamese people, and probably, the Vietnamese street kids commonly known in Vietnamese buddha, which is called the dash of life, is that they have this radiant smile as though they're telling you that they won't be defeated [chuckles] by their circumstances. I witnessed one particular girl that was a beggar. Her mom was somewhere nearby, always very angry and very upset with life for some reason. Every time she sees me, she put her hand down, "So give me money." That particular night, she ran around in circle where we're sitting, having our dinner. She said, "Mommy, I'll try better tomorrow." Because she didn't make the quota.. Her mom was somewhere nearby with a steel pipe that was beating her. Subsequently, I found out that she never really made it to her adulthood later in life. I had a very important decision to my career. One was I could be that change like I want to see the world or I can go home and like a lot of tourists before me. That was very tragic. I'm going to send money back to Vietnam. I decided I want to be that change. I went back home. I asked my mom for permission. I was 24 years old. It was 1996. I had $200 in my pocket. I read two books on Vietnam. I got a job as a tour leader for a Melbourne-based company for intrepid. I came back to Vietnam. I spent the next three and a half years traveling around the Indochina regions. Everywhere there were street kids, I would feed them, shelter them, give them money, all that kind of stuff. Typically, the old chance was probably giving them a fish, so they could eat every day. [chuckles] That's what I did, young, arrogant [chuckles] and think you know better. Then, subsequently, in 1999, those nine street kids I looked after in Hanoi in the capital pulled me aside and said-- Basically, I got conned.What I was doing wasn't helping at all. It was just a free ride that they thought that they take advantage of. Instead of seeing that reaction of "Oh my God. I'm never going to talk to you guys again" [laughter] So, okay. Let’s find another solution. Let’s work on the next stage, which is basically giving you a fishing rod, so you can go and fish for yourself. There began the concept of Know One Teach One. The idea was very simple, was very much about hospitality, which is a skill that's transferrable. It was about creating a family, which a lot of them don't have, and giving them the skills that they're going to need to gain a sustainable life. The name Know One Teach One came about because we think that education is the key to breaking the cycle of poverty, but education doesn't have to be the traditional sense. It can be learned by doing. The idea was basically you know something, you should pass it on and playing it forward. All that collected, and then, KODA was born in 1999. In the next 23 years, we built a remarkable program that helped not only the street kids at the beginning, but now, ethnic minority girls kids in conflict with the law, kids that's been trafficked, basically the one that the society calls it "Very difficult to teach." We take them in. We put them through a two-year program, that we include the Australian Vocational Education Training Curriculum - the Box Hill Institute in Melbourne. Then, we created these incredible online skills including I'm going camping with outward bounds, do empowerment, do all this reproductive health, which is all the things that they don't learn from school. Then, lastly is we put them through English specifically designed for hospitality. At the end of the two years, Kerry, we got empowered hospitality professionals that have a sustainable livelihood and all that as well. That shows what the program is. [00:13:45] Kerry Newsome: it's an incredible story because I know back in 1999. I think you started with nine kids and a sandwich shop. 20 years on, you've influenced thousands and given them life skills as well as tuition in hospitality, which is, as you say, transferable to start their own businesses, work in major hotels, which I understand these individuals now are very sought after for their skills in some of the big names around town. It's an incredible story. Just a quick one. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. If there was anything you would have done differently back in 1999, say, what would that be? [00:14:36] Jimmy Pham: My goodness. I remember in 1999 because I couldn't cook right, so a lot of people think I'm a chef by trade. [laughter] I'm not. I got this woman's cookbook mom sent over. [chuckles] I was learning how to make frittata- [00:14:53] Kerry Newsome: [laughs] Oh gosh. [00:14:55] Jimmy Pham: -and all these sandwiches for tourists that were catching an overnight train to central Vietnam, but we had a blast. Well, would I do anything different? Probably. I think there were a lot of things I could have done differently. I think in a very Buddhist [unintelligible 00:15:12] kind of country as such as Vietnam, you believe that everything has a reason and the pathway that you need to walk on. For me, it was a learning curve. I think that we became the first recognized social enterprise. This region along the British Council just released last year that's 1,000,000 social enterprise working and different disciplines here in this region. To give you an idea of the kindness of influence you created just from a small sandwich shop. I wouldn't be able to travel around the world and be an inspiring mentor to a lot of social entrepreneurs. If I hadn't walked that path, if I haven't created-- You have all that experience and being conned and thinking I was on that watchlist. All that created these dynamics I have in me today. [00:16:18] Kerry Newsome: If I could interject with just maybe small happening when Bill Clinton decided to visit you, I think you were even more under the microscope, weren't you? [laughter] Who is this Jimmy Pham? What is so special about his place that Bill Clinton wants to come and visit? So-- [00:16:40] Jimmy Pham: That's correct. After we've been open for two months, we moved to a new location. We had such an incredibly difficult time because I had no money. My mom went and borrowed from the bank because no one at that time believed in what I was doing. Then, I made it to the front cover of an ex-pats magazine called Timeout. Then subsequently, it was very historic because it was the first American president to visit the North. Where we were located? We were in a very tourist spot, which is the first university or the Temple of Literature. [00:17:15] Kerry Newsome: Yes, a beautiful place. [00:17:17] Jimmy Pham: Exactly, it was an amazing place where the scholars and all that go to. Anyway, so he came to visit there, and then, he stopped over for lunch. 00:17:27] that surrounded that visit was quite intense. I never thought in my wildest dream that I would be able to meet this guy. Like everyone else, I was in the crowd, looking over to see him and all that kind of stuff. The next thing, I saw this parked black car- [00:17:48] Kerry Newsome: Limousine? [00:17:51] Jimmy Pham: -in front of KOTO. I dashed over and said, "Can I help you?" He said, "Is this KOTO?" I say, "Yes." He's coming for lunch. I said, "Oh my God." [00:18:00] Kerry Newsome: [laughs] [00:18:01] Jimmy Pham: The next two hour was quite intense. Just in case anyone wondering, he had a diet coke, [chuckles] a latte. [00:18:09] Kerry Newsome: He had a what? [00:18:10] Jimmy Pham: A latte, a diet coke. [00:18:12] Kerry Newsome: Oh, a diet coke. Oh, how funny. [00:18:14] Jimmy Pham: Falafel. [chuckles] [00:18:16] Kerry Newsome: Falafel. Okay. [00:18:17] Jimmy Pham: Yes. That was the very first time that we hosted someone as important as Bill Clinton, the most important man. I can see why he was such a charismatic kind of person [crosstalk] Since then, KOTO hosted-- so the first time we were under the microscope. We're thought as "Why the hell would someone such as important as the President of the United States come and visit this little tiny sandwich shop?" There was a big question mark, understandably. It got vetted severely for the next four years. Since then, we have hosted the Queen of Denmark. We had two Australian Prime Ministers already, the New Zealand Prime Minister. We have the Head of the UN and a lot of Australian ministers came to KOTO. All this was a privilege, but because every time someone important comes and they said that they saw the government sit under this KOTO, we go, "Ah. Yes, it's normal." [laughter] [music] [00:19:29] Kerry Newsome: Let’s just move now to how travel has influenced your career and partnerships as I understand you mentioned earlier about when you returned to Vietnam as a young man, it was through the support from intrepid travel, who at the time and still is very supportive of Vietnam tourism and social enterprise. Tell us a little bit about how the travel industry has spurred on your career and played a role in KOTO and just your future direction. [00:20:02] Jimmy Pham: I feel so privileged and so blessed because my starting days as a tour leader working for a company so much believe in not about dominating a country when you enter it, but actually blend in and be part of the scenery. That values were taught to me. Then subsequently, every tourist that comes to Vietnam through my group gets to hear this. Everywhere we go, we're trying to leave footprints in people's hearts rather than another, and try not to make a big scene that we're tourists and all that kind of stuff. That was very much instilled in me. I was very grateful for that learning. KOTO, for the last 20 years, has this work called the dream trip. Every year, we take our kids to visit and see how beautiful the country is and get them to start to, I guess, benefit or experience what it's like to be on the receiving end of tourism because they're going to work in the tourism industry. They might as well know what it feels like to stay in a nice hotel. [00:21:11] Kerry Newsome: To be one. Yes. [00:21:12] Jimmy Pham: To be one. That influenced me. The intrepid days and working as a leader plays a very important part in that. Now, everywhere, sustainability and giving back and all that kind of stuff are applied in everything I do because of tourism. Being a tour leader and know what it's like to go to Ha Long Bay and see rubbish everywhere and food waste and all that kind of stuff. Yes, I think Vietnam has gone a long way, by the way. [00:21:45] Kerry Newsome: Interesting. I know when we first began chatting a week or so ago, I was mentioning to you I got to go to KOTO as being part of a tour group back in, I think, 2007. That was when I really first got to hear about you and what you were doing with KOTO and all the rest of it. I feel very lucky to be talking to you now, but I think where I'd like to go with this is that travel is becoming such a widely discussed topic in the sense that it expands now into sustainability, responsible travel, impactful tourism, and social enterprise. For the average Joe, sometimes that's a bit academic, and it's quite hard to know what that really means. You've sat on the board in Vietnam for over 10 years with the center for social initiatives program, CSIP. Tell us a little bit about how social enterprise resonates with you. [music] [00:23:03] Jimmy Pham: Social enterprise, for anyone who doesn't know, the definition of social impact basically, it's using a business model. [crosstalk] [00:23:10] Kerry Newsome: A business model. [00:23:11] Jimmy Pham: A business model and principle to achieve a social outcome or a social mission as they call it. You can be any business. What you're saying is that it doesn't have to be difficult because a lot of people do have it in them to try to do something positive, but it's always a form of charity where you don't empower people, you actually give your hands out. A lot of tourism have fallen into that trap when they see that poverty. Like it or not, a lot of people-- If you go to a tourist spot area in Hanoi, there's the Hoan Kiem lake, which is a central lake, you see a lot of street kids there in the old days. You have to question "Why they're there? To be there in the first place, how much premium do they have to pay to be even to be there?" They play to the team because if you really want to help Vietnamese locals, you go to where there are no tourists, go, for example. Just go back on the social enterprise. Basically, what we're asking you to do is basically you can apply anything that you do in your business. Whether you're hiring someone who comes from that background or whether you're using a certain amount of your profit to help and empower people and build capacity and all that kind of stuff for you and your organization, for the environment. certain amount, 51% of the ways that could be donated and things like that. All this is all part of creating this better world for whether it's environmental or whether it's community or whether it's using technology or whatever. You can actually apply. Where we are in this region? Unfortunately, people still like this whole concept of it makes them feel a lot better when they actually stand and give out handouts. That's what the tourists tend to do. They do handouts. That is not sustainable. You're creating this begging culture. That is so 1990. It has to move forward. If you want to help someone, then go to an organization that helps those kids or gives them a meal. going through that particular rather than give them money. Go to the hill tribes. Don't give them lolly because they have no access to dental, that kind of stuff, hill tribes minority clothing, but they get dengue fevers and all that kind of stuff. All this needs to be considered part of this sustainable and responsible tourism. I think that's very important to be-- When you think of the new way to help, it's about social impact, it's about creating impact, it's about sustainability. When you help someone, make sure that there's a follow-up to it rather than just give them money and don't know what's going to happen to them. Don't do it because it makes you feel good. Do it because it's an investment. [00:26:08] Kerry Newsome: I think what it opened up for me when I first started to put my social enterprise hat on in travel, which has really only been in probably the last, maybe, four or five years in me thinking that way was to be a bit more curious. There's a lot of, as you say, shops and businesses that are running in Vietnam. You find out if you're curious enough to see that something you're purchasing is going to go back into a certain community. As you say, it's not about I'm handing out something as a charity, I'm getting something in return. I'm buying something, which is a value to me. Then, a portion of that is of value to that community or to that organization. I invite my listeners to be curious when they do go to enjoy shopping. Even shopping has changed so much in Vietnam. I can remember everything used to be copy, copy, copy. I'd come home with 100 DVDs and CDs. I was terrible, Jimmy. I was terrible at that. As the years and years, I've been going back and forth for about 14 years now, I've become more responsible and more sociable in what I'm doing. When I talk to the owners of these shops and then they tell me about, oh, this was made in such and such and the tribe or the community that makes this. This comes from this. It was just a whole new world for me. It was refreshing to know that was happening. [00:27:58] Jimmy Pham: Kerry, do you remember 10 years ago in Australia where every time you think about-- 10, even 15, 20 years ago in Australia, if you buy anything organic, it's always sold like ridiculously expensive. It's not affordable to your average, A social enterprise like that, how are we going to be able to grow if the community doesn't support us? You know what I mean. If you want quality products, you want all this availability, and you want accessibility. All that help us to think, you can actually help us to grow. At the same time, the passing down on the price can be passed on to you. You know what I mean. We can be competitive in the market where a hill-tribe shirt is massively produced by a machine. If you help on women economic empowerment projects that do the same thing by buying a lot of numbers, then you can still be very competitive to the one that's been selling. You know what I mean. That's how the logic behind it of supporting social enterprises, that actually with their goods and products and services as well. [00:29:09] Kerry Newsome: Yes. I think it’s taken a while. You and I have been part of it, I guess, in watching the culture go from cheap, cheap, same, same, that association with Vietnam. I got to see just in a recent trip I did, 2019, with a lady who was buying some beautiful stuff from Vietnam and selling it in the Australian market. The pieces she was buying were from some very enterprising and creative people in Vietnam that were designing garments, jewelry, all sorts of things, which weren't cheap, but wow, it had the value to it. Especially, when you knew some of that money was going to go back into a community where it came from. It was a win-win philosophy, so I was impressed. [00:30:08] Jimmy Pham: The beautiful thing about the Vietnamese people as well you should know this. Because the new generations, we know 70% is under 30, 32, 35 now, so we have a very young population. A lot of us are now very educated, whereas, before, the parents generation is different because it was during the war and had no access to education. The ability to innovate and create is actually quite high now, so it's not about the copy products and things like that. It's more about so incredible ideas and arts and all that kind of stuff. It's here in Vietnam. [music] [00:30:51] Kerry Newsome: Where do you see the biggest changes that are going to happen with travel? I'll preface this by saying probably Vietnam was almost reaching over tourism as in the sense of the really big buses turning up into towns, etc. Ha Long Bay was getting chock-a-block with over-tourism. Do you see that there will be some positives to come out of the COVID story along the lines of being responsible to tourism in the future? How do you see it looking post-COVID? [00:31:31] Jimmy Pham: The tourism and the hospitality, two industries have been heavily affected by the COVID, which is so helpful, [chuckles] the education sector as well. All the schools are closed and the training centers and all that kind of stuff. We're in the midst of that thee industries. I think that everyone needs to eat. I think that the hospitality industry will still need to go back to-- Because like it or not, I think people are craving for this human interaction and social skills and all that kind of stuff that goes with it. I think that should be encouraged, and that should never go away even technology takes over and things like that. I think the way we look at tourism is going to change, being more responsible, more humble rather than going for massive numbers. I think that people are going to reevaluate the way they do tourism and how it's going to be most useful and be competitive by being creative and innovative as well. How they do their hotels and where they stay and the homestay is going to be different and focus a lot on the wonderful landscape and the natural beauty and the environment aspects of tourism, which we don't do before. It's always about shopping, shopping, shopping, shopping and other kinds of-- It's just one part, but it's not everything about tourism. Vietnam has such a diversity in rich culture, incredible food. Oh my God. The food. I think to take that away in tourism, it's just a big tragedy. [00:33:07] Kerry Newsome: Yes. I think you're right. My experience with Vietnamese so far has been that they do have a very entrepreneurial spirit. They can pivot in a heartbeat. If there's something they need to change, they can do that. I've seen it already happening in COVID times, where certain businesses were very dependent on travelers now they're becoming home, takeaway businesses, and being able to produce food like that. You're right, Vietnam's got an amazing landscape to experience. I think as much as my podcast is-- for some people saying, "How come you're doing a travel podcast in the middle of COVID?" I go, "Well, I think it's important to keep Vietnam on people's radar- [00:33:59] Jimmy Pham: Radar. Exactly. [00:34:00] Kerry Newsome: -and information is gold, isn't it?" When a traveler has been to Vietnam, and they come away, and they've done the Ha Giang Loop, or they've been up into Ba Bể Lake, or they've been to Mù Cang Chải or some beautiful regions where they can explore their social enterprise also in these regions. Those stories are rich for people to hear in the future because when they're trip planning. I'm hoping they'll listen to that, or they'll listen to something that we're talking about, Jimmy, and go, "I want to go to Vietnam with that headset. I want to go with a bit more knowledge when the doors do finally open up again." [00:34:46] Kerry Newsome: But please remember also that by going to Ba Bể Lake and to Ha Giang and all that kind-- you're actually helping the livelihood of people. They rely on that tourism as a source of income. It's a lifeline for them. Probably if anything there's a takeaway from this tourism, it is actually that. You know what I mean. It's not just only about supporting the big hotels or whatever tickles your fancy, but when you start going to the beautiful hill-tribe minorities, and we'll start going to all these remote areas that Vietnam has so much of, a bundle of, you're supporting locals, yes, and their likelihood. That's responsible travel. [00:35:29] Kerry Newsome: That's probably a good way to possibly finish up, Jimmy, talking about how does a traveler leaves a positive imprint or footprint on Vietnam. You're talking about us when we do go to Vietnam is opening up our minds and our options as not just, as you say, in the big resorts and things like that, so much more to Vietnam to explore. [00:36:01] Jimmy Pham: I think when you leave Vietnam, if you can make a friend, then you've achieved your goal. If you leave Vietnam, then you're learning something more than before you came. You've achieved your goal. Lastly, if you go to Vietnam, and you're supporting someone because you're there, then you've done your bid as well. It's why educating is about contributing, it's about leaving something behind. I think for Vietnam, we really want you to come back. We want to be like Thailand, where year after year like you, Kerry, instead of just one time and see you later, I'm not going to come back, we want to come back because of the destinations, for everything from luxury to backpacking to all sorts of stuff. [00:36:51] Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. People say to me, "Oh, do you think you're going to run out of things to talk about?" I said, "You've got to be joking." [laughs] I could go on until I keel over and talking about what there is to do in Vietnam because, as you said, I go two, three times a year, and every time I visit, I find something else new. I meet a different person. I remember meeting a lovely girl who ran a cooking class. I had a fabulous time with her a few years ago. I've remained good friends with her. As you say, it's life-changing, I think, a visit to Vietnam. It has that effect on you. I feel very lucky. [00:37:37] Jimmy Pham: For Vietnamese as well, we're very honorable I guess. We're very loyal. I think that's some of the characteristics of the Vietnamese people. That's what makes it a unique travel experience for people coming to Vietnam. [00:37:53] Kerry Newsome: I just want to say thank you very much for coming on the show and talking with you. Congratulations again on winning the award, very well deserved. I just want to wish you all the best, be safe, and we'll talk soon. [00:38:08] Jimmy Pham: Thank you, Kerry. Thank you everyone and please stay safe and good luck to everyone. [00:38:12] Jingle: Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What About Vietnam. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam.

9a6d1613-985b-413d-9059-740f70feef70 Rich in history and culture and yet bursting to change. What About Vietnam - Series 3 - 9 Street life experiences in Hanoi through the lens of a camera [00:00:36] Kerry Newsome: Xin chào. Welcome to What About Vietnam. When I was deciding just how I would do justice to my guest on the show today, Lavonne Bosman, it was kind of hard until I looked at her photographs. Her photographs depict Hanoi street life. They are the most amazing pieces of art because they show so much detail. I hope you welcome her to the program. She comes to Vietnam obviously through the lens of her camera, inspired by friends that were already in Vietnam, who were boasting about the scenery people, and places to explore. It's crazy how this happens. When you've been to Vietnam, it's very easy to leave with aspirations that you want to come back. You're always sharing with people and telling people just how great it is. I can understand how she was inspired by her friends. Lavonne is a South-African-born. As a photographic artist, she offers up the most insightful, and as she calls it, photographic art depicting disappearing worlds. I think that's just a fabulous way to describe her art. She landed in Hanoi in 2019. While teaching English since her arrival, she's been expanding her portfolio with the street culture of the city. Personally, I really love street culture. In cities like Hanoi, when the old and the new co-exist, sometimes just sitting having a coffee and people watching can tell you a lot. You will hear from Lavonne how she loves to delve into some of the more interesting parts of the Old Quarter. She's got some great insights into special treats to watch out for even traveling late at night. Just her confidence as a solo traveler, I'm sure, will help people who are thinking about coming to Vietnam possibly as such. If you are interested in hearing different viewpoints of Hanoi and one from a seasoned traveler with an eye on cultural diversity, this episode will mean something to you. You will be able to view and ultimately purchase Lavonne's work as I've made sure I have included all the links to her in the episode notes. Please welcome Lavonne to the show. [music] Hello Lavonne. Welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. [00:03:25] Lavonne Bosman: thank you Kerry. Nice to be here. [00:03:29] Kerry Newsome: that's good. Now, I'm talking to you in Hanoi in the middle of COVID. Things are still a little bit tight there at the moment I understand. [00:03:39] Lavonne Bosman: yes, rather tight I'd say. It's been quite a strange feeling so far. [chuckles] It literally feels like we've been in lockdown for months already and with no end in sight. They give us a date. It just gets extended every time. At least we know we're still far from the situation that's in Saigon. We're still okay. [00:04:03] Kerry Newsome: exactly. Yes. While that's not much comfort, it is some comfort. I just want to give my listeners, I guess, a little bit of background out on you. You are a keen travel photographer. I've seen your African portraits. They are just amazing. You've done a little bit of trolling around the world, the Swiss Alps, I read. I think, from what I see, you do definitely have that fascination with developing countries and- [00:04:41] Lavonne Bosman: yes. [laughs] [00:04:42] Kerry Newsome: -the diversity of street life. I'm really glad you've got that because I think street life is also fascinating. Tell us what drew you to Vietnam in the first instance. Why Vietnam? [00:05:01] Lavonne Bosman: yes. As a photographer, like we just said, I love the diversity of life, I love the contrast of seeing the ancient traditional kind of life that might be at risk of disappearing because of rapid development. That's probably my main attraction to Vietnam, apart from my first introduction to it as a child when I saw this American series Tour of Duty about the American soldiers in Vietnam. I saw a little bit of the country lifestyle, the bamboo ,that kind of thing. Also, I saw pictures of Saigon that really, really fascinated me, all the traffic or the crazy chaotic traffic, all the different characters on different types of transport. You just, "Wow." It just looks amazing. Visually, I was very attracted to Vietnam. I find it very interesting. Yes. From South Africa, there's also a bit of this element of the first world and the third world that exists side by side. That kind of thing is what you see in Vietnam, especially Hanoi. I haven't been to Saigon, but in Hanoi, that exists as well. [00:06:29] Kerry Newsome: yes, definitely. You're right. That, I think, is an attractive feature in the sense that I like the fact that it still holds some of its traditional aspects as in the people, the food, the street food, and just the street antics, I call them. You'll be wandering down the street, and you'll go, "Oh my goodness. How am I going to explain that to the people back home?" Because we're so urbanized where we come from that-- Yes, it's a little bit hard. They go, "Are you joking? Do they do that just for the tourists?" "Ah, no. Actually, they do that every single day. That's their routine." [00:07:15] Lavonne Bosman: right, right. I often stumble upon a street sometimes very early in the morning unexpectedly where I feel like I just walked into an old movie set. I just went to some totally untouristy place where people are living their absolute daily lives. Wow, I love that, [chuckles] all the smoking in the air and a pig or something that is just lying over a bike on route somewhere. [00:07:47] Kerry Newsome: yes, exactly. [00:07:50] Kerry Newsome: I don't know whether you've been to Train Street, which is a main street in Hanoi. [00:07:56] Lavonne Bosman: yes, it's one of my favorites. [00:07:58] Kerry Newsome: yes. I had a very delicate day there where I was desperate to get this video and to get this photo. Of course, you would know what that's like. I lent over. My girlfriend was with me. She was very nervous that I wouldn't get out of the way because it's very close, isn't it? [00:08:22] Lavonne Bosman: that's dangerous. [laughs] [00:08:24] Kerry Newsome: it's very dangerous. Now, I'm not sure they did shut it down for a while there. I don't know whether it's still shut. I hope so for safety. [00:08:32] Lavonne Bosman: we'll see after COVID, what's the deal there. [00:08:34] Kerry Newsome: what happens, yes. You're right. On that same street, there was a couple of chickens that were in a cage. There was a little lady. She was hunched over. She was cooking something on a little gas stove and-- [00:08:51] Lavonne Bosman: right on the train tracks. [laughs] [00:08:52] Kerry Newsome: it was right on the train tracks. Exactly, I know. I guess for you as a photographer, that is street life in all its naturale, isn't it? [00:09:02] Lavonne Bosman: yes. I must say the day I first went to Train Street, I really felt like I was in a different country. Even those chickens don't look like normal chickens. I think they call them dinosaur chickens. They just look so ancient. [00:09:19] Kerry Newsome: Yes, I know. Everybody moves their bikes out of the road. They collapse their chairs from the side. They close their windows. I think it goes through at three o'clock in the afternoon. I think it's twice a day that it actually goes through, so you have to be there on time. [00:09:34] Lavonne Bosman: Something like that. Yes. They're quick and efficient. When the train is on the way, within three minutes, everything's backed up. [laughs] [00:09:42] Kerry Newsome: absolutely, absolutely. That's just one street scene, isn't it, Hanoi? There's lots, lots more. Talk to me a little bit maybe about some favorite areas of yours because I know you're walking around, and you're trying to find some-- I don't know, just moments that you could capture because obviously they come and go so quickly. Do you have some favorite places that you seek out? [00:10:12] Lavonne Bosman: okay. Well, the Old Quarter in general is a favorite place. You can't go wrong. If you're a tourist, for example, and you don't have a lot of time, and you just spend time in the Old Quarter, you will be amused for days. [laughs] Train Street is also part of the Old Quarter, so you'll find that there. Of course, Hanoi is famous for having all these interesting streets where they sell all of the same products in one street. One of those streets is the bamboo street that is just so beautiful to me. You just see all these bamboo products, mostly some things like ladders and just long bamboo poles of different thicknesses. It just creates quite a nice decoration. Usually, the Old Quarter has quite a lot of trees. There's always this green shade atmosphere that I really love about it, and of course, so much happening. It's so bustling. Your eyes spin when you are there for the first time. Much to see, all the different traffic that goes by, people on bikes carrying the strangers loads that you just can't believe they can actually balance that. Yes, the Old Quarter is great. Of course, all the food that you can find there can also entertain you for days. Then, some other parts that I love, the plant street in Hoang Hoa Tham street. That's not far from the Old Quarter, but it's something that I discovered quite a lot later. I somehow didn't know it was there. I thought I walked into heaven the day I started walking down that street. That was just amazing, this long, long street, so many different shops selling plants. Also, they sell fish. There are birds in little cages. It just feels a bit like a plant and a zoo streets kind of-- [00:12:17] Kerry Newsome: A menagerie, yes. [00:12:18] Lavonne Bosman: Yes. [laughs] [00:12:20] Kerry Newsome: I think I might have stumbled into that street. You're right. It is fascinating. They do have birds in that area. [00:12:28] Lavonne Bosman: Yes. You could just spend hours just walking down the street and just be like, "Wow, it's just so beautiful and so abundant." One of my other favorite places would be the flower market in Tây Hồ, the Quảng Bá flower market, which I did my one little photo project late at night. It was about 3:00 AM. [00:12:53] Kerry Newsome: wow, that is a life project. [00:12:54] Lavonne Bosman: yes. If you want to experience something a bit different-- Of course, it's still overstimulation in a way, but so incredible that time of night, especially if you happen to be there before the lunar month because then it's extra bustling. It feels like you're in a really crazy action movie, just hooting and shouting and organizing. Bikes and trucks, everything's moving. Then, you just walk around there, and you just see everyone doing their job, this whole community working together. It's quite serious. I wouldn't go there in a big tourist group at all. If you are alone, that would be the best because you might get in the way and maybe get run over by something. [laughter] The local people might just push you out of the way to save your life a few times. [chuckles] Yes, that's been one of my favorite experiences just when I think of all the sights and sounds and even the smell of the flowers. There's this coffee smell. Everything was just so beautiful, and seeing the people working so hard all through the night. Everyone is on a mission. They have something to do. Yes, I just love that. You can see that people are serious, but there's a lot of smiles in between. Everyone's close together because it's very narrow. [00:14:23] Kerry Newsome: You're right. It is a feast for the senses, isn't it? [00:14:28] Lavonne Bosman: Absolutely. [00:14:28] Kerry Newsome: you've got all of those beautiful smells and mixed in with coffee. Then, you've got tight squeezers with motorbikes, intermingling with people. All the color, I think the colors [crosstalk]-- [00:14:41] Lavonne Bosman: a lot of color. [00:14:42] Kerry Newsome: Listen. When I think of Vietnam, and I try to describe to people why I come home so uplifted, it's because I think there's just so much color. I think it fills your senses. I guess from your point of view with a photographic eye, you look at the mixture of colors. Some of the work that I've seen and your beautiful little postcard book that you do, which by the way people, I'm going to put the link in the episode notes too because Lavonne's work is beautiful in this. You probably need the big printable version that you can put on your wall because I agree with her, there's a lot in-- Anyway, I think it's important we get the message to our listeners today about that color sense that comes into a visit and the smells. Not all smells are fabulous, but-- [00:15:43] Lavonne Bosman: no, not all of them. [laughs] [00:15:46] Kerry Newsome: there's going to be the odd rubbish that you're going to see and all of this kind of thing. If you can lift yourself above that-- [00:15:54] Lavonne Bosman: right, exactly. You need to just focus on the beautiful things and ignore the stinky things. [laughs] [00:16:01] Kerry Newsome: exactly, exactly. Just take in the ambiance. I know even from the Old Quarter, it's lovely to walk around the lake also in the afternoon. You'll see people doing t'ai chi and dancing. When do you see that in a city ?? [00:16:22] Lavonne Bosman: right, yes. There's a park to the south of the lake. I can't remember what it's called, but it's one of the main parks. If you go in there, also, you see the groups of people doing exercise. The trees that are there are also ancient and so beautiful. It's amazing in the city. [00:16:42] Kerry Newsome: once again, there are certain traditions. There's certain connectivity with people, families come together, groups come together that do it regularly. They meet there. Some of the older generations will come and sit and play games together. Sit on a park bench, you'll see some old guys that sit there and maybe smoke or something like that. It's a scene. You said before, you could almost put it in a movie, couldn't you? Just as it is. [00:17:18] Lavonne Bosman: yes, there's a lot of it that just looks like it's a movie right there. Who scripted this? [laughter] [00:17:26] Kerry Newsome: exactly, exactly. [00:17:27] Lavonne Bosman: who did the costume design? did it [chuckles] [00:17:29] Kerry Newsome: perfectly. That beautiful lady with their little pajama set kind of thing on without having that, oh, she's just as charming. Exactly. Now, I want to talk to you about the craziness side of the traffic. A lot of people talk to me and say, "Oh, I think it'd be just too much for me." We spoke about it, didn't we, the other day? Maybe speak to my listeners about how you coped when you first time. [00:18:05] Lavonne Bosman: yes, I was quite nervous about that before I arrived because I watched some videos just to learn how to cross the street. [laughs] I thought, "Wow, I'm really gonna do that." I don't know. It's not that bad. I don't know if it's worse in Saigon, but in Hanoi, maybe I adapted it to that somehow quite quickly. I actually like that kind of thing where you must just realize don't go against anything, just go with the flow. If you go with the flow, don't hesitate, don't make any sudden movements. Everything really works out. [chuckles] [00:18:46] Kerry Newsome: it does. I think going with the flow is a really great analogy. I've had Vietnamese seen me when I first used to travel. They think, "Oh gosh. She's typically a tourist and is struggling." They'll just grab my arm and help me across the street. Then, I got a bit smarter. I have a beautiful girlfriend who's Vietnamese. When we go traveling together around Vietnam, she'll say, "Now, Kerry, we're going to such and such. Now, it's a very wide street. You know the drill. Grab my arm. We just go." I went, "Got you. I'm with you." [laughter] You pick your points, and obviously, you can find some method in the chaos. It is a bit like organized chaos. They don't want to crash into you as much as you don't want to crash into them. [00:19:45] Lavonne Bosman: exactly, exactly. There are some tricks that you can follow, especially if you're on a bike. Walking can be a little bit different. You just walk. When you're on a bike, and there are actually cars and trucks coming-- because sometimes it feels like the bikes watch out for each other, but you got to watch out for the cars. They just go. Something that you can do when you don't feel safe, or you don't feel confident that it's your turn, you can just keep on moving is to shelter behind someone else, maybe a bigger vehicle, or sometimes there's a little group. It always feels to me like I'm part of a motorbike gang when I'm in the traffic. [laughter] Okay. The group is starting to move and then you just make sure you're behind them. If someone does crash into the group, you'll be right behind, so you'll be fine. [laughs] That's a great way of getting across a scary street. [00:20:46] Kerry Newsome: absolutely. As you say, as you're riding the bike, you're in a different group. I know from riding with other friends, etc. they're most fearful of cars because the car is obviously faster, quicker and can really do some damage, so [crosstalk]- [00:21:05] Lavonne Bosman: Yes, they can always-- [00:21:06] Kerry Newsome: -they're the ones that do the real damage. [00:21:06] Lavonne Bosman: [unintelligible 00:21:06] so much. [chuckles] [00:21:08] Kerry Newsome: exactly. The bikes are traditionally only going at about 40 kilometers an hour, sometimes much less. Yes, exactly. [00:21:17] Lavonne Bosman: Most of the time I prefer going on by bicycle, which is very relaxing. [chuckles] Then, you can take the smaller roads. You don't need to stick on the big roads. Just go and explore the little roads on the side, getting to the same destination. [00:21:35] Kerry Newsome: absolutely. Some of those skinny areas where it is a little bit clutter-ish, a bicycle works much better, doesn't it? [00:21:44] Lavonne Bosman: yes. You'll see all these old people on bicycles. They don't look worried. [chuckles] [00:21:51] Kerry Newsome: yes, that's always a good sign. All right. I'm gonna jump into a story you told me about you've made a friend, I think, in the neighborhood. Maybe you want to share that with us. [00:22:04] Lavonne Bosman: yes, that's quite a special story and a special friend I guess. Yes, I met this elderly gentleman when I first moved to the neighborhood where I'm living now. He just looked really interesting to me. Photographically, I just wanted to take a photograph of him immediately, which I did. He reminded me a bit of Mr. Miyagi from the Karate Kid story. [00:22:31] Kerry Newsome: Oh, beautiful. [00:22:32] Lavonne Bosman: [chuckles] This great beard and this long gray hair and just a very friendly face. Yes, he said he allowed me to take his portrait. I think he even bought me a nước mía that day, which is one of the sugarcane juice, which is one of my favorite drinks in Vietnam. Since then, we've bumped into each other many times. Very often, I'll be cycling past or walking past, and he'll be sitting somewhere on the sidewalk, eating or having a drink. He'll always invite me over. I always join him if I have time. I think there was one morning at about seven o'clock, I came back from cycling around the lake. He invited me for a shot of rice wine at about 7:00 AM. [00:23:18] Kerry Newsome: Oh wow. [00:23:19] Lavonne Bosman: [laughs] Yes. He doesn't speak any English. I'm quite embarrassed at my own level of Vietnamese. In the beginning, we were communicating a bit with Google Translate. It doesn't always work that well. We gave that up eventually. Nowadays, mostly we just hang out together, just have a drink, eat some peanuts on the little plastic chairs wherever, somewhere on the sidewalk. After a while, yes, it'll be time to go. [00:23:54] Kerry Newsome: Oh, I think that's sweet. [00:23:55] Lavonne Bosman: yes, so sweet. Sometimes if I've walked, he would just point his bike. Then, he'll offer me a lift home. [laughs] [00:24:04] Kerry Newsome: Oh, that's delightful. How gracious of him to befriend you when he really can't understand everything that you're saying. [00:24:17] Lavonne Bosman: right. He's always treating me to some more either trà đào or nước mía or something like that. [chuckles] [00:24:22] Kerry Newsome: all right. [music] Have you tried bia hơi yet? [00:24:32] Lavonne Bosman: yes, I quite enjoy that beer. Actually, I don't go to the bia hơi that often. One of my favorite places where I have this kind of beer is at the flower market. They have this one food stall that seems to stay open all night, where they serve this quite famous phở chiên, the crispy fried noodle, which may be my favorite food in Vietnam. I like going past there because it's on the way to my home when I take the back streets from another more central area. It happens that I go past it late at night. Then, I'll have some of that and a nice cheap beer. [laughs] [00:25:17] Kerry Newsome: it's very cheap beer. [00:25:19] Lavonne Bosman: there's a, yes, good view of the flower market to entertain me. It's lovely. [chuckles] [00:25:25] Kerry Newsome: when you first arrived, Lavonne, did you do any tours or anything, or did you just take up exploring on your own? [00:25:33] Lavonne Bosman: yes, I didn't really do any tours. I was lucky enough to have a friend here who'd been living here for a few years. He showed me around quite a lot. Yes, I was very spoiled then because I could just hop in the back of his bike. No stress from my side. Just do a bit of sightseeing. Yes, he would go and show me around the lake or show me all his favorite little places. We even did a trip during the Tet holiday, the new year for about a week where we traveled a little bit north to and the Đà river and a few places like that, which has been my most incredible bike trip so far. Yes. That was great to be with people who knew the area, who could also speak some Vietnamese. Yes, that was [crosstalk]-- [00:26:24] Kerry Newsome: in particular in those regions. Yes. [music] You're a solo traveler per se. Have you felt safe? [00:26:37] Lavonne Bosman: yes. When I travel, I do mostly feel safe. I think also coming from South Africa, I definitely feel safer here. I was quite nervous about traveling by bike by myself. Maybe sometimes I still am because maybe my bike isn't the best. I've got the little Honda Super Cub that's not that fast. It could perhaps break down. Usually, the people are very helpful and kind. If you would break down somewhere, someone would come along and help you sooner or later. I would advise people to be a bit street smart though because it has happened to me when I took a bus somewhere. The drivers actually made me put my bag into their storage underneath the bus. I just had a funny feeling about it. I got out and went around. They were scratching my back, nearly stealing my passport, which stupidly, I left in my bag. [chuckles] Yes. You've got to watch out for things like that. You have got to be a bit street smart. [00:27:43] Kerry Newsome: yes, absolutely. I think mostly common sense prevails in most cases. You're right, but-- [00:27:49] Lavonne Bosman: Yes, like most countries. [00:27:51] Kerry Newsome: Like most countries, absolutely. Would you recommend Hanoi as a good starting point into Vietnam? [00:28:00] Lavonne Bosman: yes, definitely. I think Hanoi itself-- I've been living here for two and a half years now. I still find new places that I'm so excited about, "Wow. More new discoveries." From Hanoi, there are so many places around here that are not even far that you can go to. There's, for example, Sóc Sơn is a place we often go to, a group of friends, just take our bikes and go there for the day and relax by the lake. There are other beautiful places. Well, you can go to Cat Ba Island. I haven't gone there by bike. You can take a bus. Then, you go on a ferry and spend a week in there, whatever. Places like Ba Vì, which is incredibly beautiful, all these. you just go up this mountain and see all this amazing plant growth and beautiful waterfalls. It's really incredible, and some other places like that that's really not too far. It's north, but it's central from a lot of places to travel to. [00:29:09] Kerry Newsome: absolutely. Now, with the freeway to Ha Long Bay, that's now reduced to only two hours away. You've got that to access or Lan Ha Bay as the two areas now. You're right. It's the leapfrog to what I would call open spaces, massive landscape, really idyllic areas for a photographer, especially on a landscape canvas. I like the idea of using Hanoi as a base. You and I talked about that before about basing yourself in Hanoi and doing some trips, a short trip to Ninh Binh first per se. You could do that not easily in a day. It's about three or four hours to get there. [00:30:07] Lavonne Bosman: Yes, I would ... [00:30:09] Kerry Newsome: yes, I would too. What I'm saying is access wise to so many different places north and south. [00:30:21] Lavonne Bosman: even taking a flight to Da Nang, going to Hoi An. It's not that far. [00:30:26] Kerry Newsome: no, and cheap. [00:30:28] Lavonne Bosman: yes. Hoi An is lovely. [chuckles] [00:30:31] Kerry Newsome: yes. That's where I base myself. [music] If you were going to give any tips for first-time travelers, now that you're very familiar with being in Hanoi, what would you give us some tips for that for people to go? [00:30:54] Lavonne Bosman: okay. I find that a little bit of a hard question to answer just because, yes, first-time travelers, I think everything is just overwhelming in the beginning. It depends on how much time you have to spend, a lot of what you're going to do. I think if people come to Hanoi, and it's their first time, they will probably be so overwhelmed that they just stay in the Old Quarter, which is absolutely fine. I would say, yes, don't be afraid to explore some non-touristy areas where more like local neighborhoods, where you really see even more of daily life, which can be really magical and beautiful. There are so many street markets everywhere. To me, my main impression of Hanoi is the street markets. I love it. I love the idea that it looks like anyone can start a little business on the sidewalk. [chuckles] I would say yes, go, go and just walk around and get lost somewhere and find the little unexpected road. Also, don't be afraid to use the GrabBike service. It's really convenient and-- [00:32:14] Kerry Newsome: yes, it's very good. [00:32:15] Lavonne Bosman: yes, you can just absolutely relax and enjoy the view and have this little adventure of going through the traffic with someone who knows what they're doing. [chuckles] [00:32:25] Kerry Newsome: yes. Even the Grab cars are good. [00:32:28] Lavonne Bosman: yes. The Grab cars are much cheaper than you would expect. [00:32:33] Kerry Newsome: yes, yes, yes. I highly recommend them. [00:32:36] Lavonne Bosman: yes. Also, just be open to hanging out with the local people. They can be really welcoming. I remember this one day, I was walking down the street, and there was this group of construction workers having their lunch on the sidewalk. I just walked past them and smiled at them or something. They waved me over and made me join them for lunch. [laughter] [00:33:03] Kerry Newsome: Yes. That would be typical. [00:33:05] Lavonne Bosman: yes. I just ate with them. Then, they had to pack up and go and continue their work. [chuckles] Things like that happen all the time. Those to me are the most precious moments. [00:33:15] Kerry Newsome: absolutely. Lavonne, it's been great having you on the program. I really loved your stories. I'm sure people are going to love your photographs as you keep adding to your portfolio. I'm sure my listeners are going to be keen to have a look at that as it grows. Once again to everyone, the links to Lavonne's photography, everything will be in the episode notes. Stay well Lavonne. I look forward to talking with you again soon. [00:33:48] Lavonne Bosman: thanks so much, Kerry. Thanks for the opportunity. It was great talking to you. [00:33:53] Jingle: Thank you for listening. Check out the episode notes for more information. What About Vietnam. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, and stay tuned for more fun adventures in Vietnam.

6ba55c6c-2c3e-40fb-a5c1-e03d00a8882b8 Tips for Vietnam travellers during TET What About Vietnam – S1- E7 8 Tips for Vietnam travellers during TET Speaker – Kerry Newsome Welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Happy New Year everyone. I'm delighted to be back bringing you stories and insights to travel to Vietnam. There is a big year ahead. I have a new program style that I'd like to tell you a little bit more about later in this show. But suffice to say that it's an exciting year ahead and today's program We're going to focus on one very special time in Vietnam, and that's the celebration of Tet. Now, when I talk about Tet, I have eight tips for travelers. Now, these eight tips have been born from my own experience. are actually on the ground. And each time I've gone to Vietnam and found myself in various locations, there's been different things I've learned along the way. And I thought, as much as I could, I'd like to share those with you so that you can, I don't know, respect the tradition for what it is, understand a little bit about what it means for Vietnamese, and plan accordingly. that you don't get disappointed or you misunderstand just what's really going on. But let's kind of just brush over or very kind of very broadly talk about what Tet is all about and what it means to Vietnamese. Largely, I think from my experience, it's about giving, it's about gratitude, it's about paying homage to traditions to a beginning, a new start. It's all about preparing for the new year. It's all about the advent of spring and getting together with people, reaching out to family and preparing your home, preparing your family, clearing off old debts, and really gearing up for a new year. Each year the dates fall on different dates according to the lunar calendar. If you're planning ahead just a few years For 2025 it is January 29th and that will be celebrating the year of the snake and in 2026 it's going to be February the 17th and it's going to be the year of the horse. I've actually gathered a little table together of the future years and the future dates because unless you're aware of how to manage the lunar calendar And because the dates fall differently each year and you want to plan your trips accordingly, then I think this table will be helpful to you. I think for me, the experience of Tet has been twofold. I've been in Vietnam before Tet and I've been there during Tet and post Tet. In each of these time periods you kind of witness a different evolution of TET. Some say when you're talking to people before TET and there's some decisions to be made that literally you either make a decision before TET or after: but nothing gets made in big decisions during TET. Because as I said in the beginning TET is really about paying homage to family and spending quality time with the people that are most important in your life and in particularly your family and friends. And that extends also to teachers and people that you respect in the community. You're going to see a great movement of people in that process. And that begins my, or I guess is a good segue into my eight tips for travelers in Vietnam during Tet. So number one is definitely buy your travel tickets if they fall, if the dates fall during the Tet season. Now, Tet is not just a day. Whilst Tet is about celebrating the advent of spring and all of the things I've just spoken about. It literally can span kind of about eight days minimum, maybe even up to two weeks. And it's very hard to define actually the eight to 14 days as they kind of blur a little bit for people, depending on their jobs, their workplace, their family environment, you know, some people who are Vietnamese who live overseas, they're coming back into the country. So, you know, everybody tries to kind of fit it in a window of time, but it does kind of mishmash, but kind of starting about a week before. So for this year, it's the 10th of February. So about a week before you're going to see some of these preparations happening. and people starting to gear up their travel plans. So, number one is buy your travel tickets. So, your train, your bus and your flights because they will be chock-a-block. So, if you're wanting to move around, you're going to be moving around with, you know, the population of Vietnam all wanting to try and get to their families to celebrate this event. No 1 – Tip - So number one, buy your travel tickets in advance and make sure when you're booking, especially with things like flights, et cetera, that you do get your seat numbers and your allocations. Number two, be early at the airport or bus station or train station. I can't stress enough the need to be a bit of ahead of the game and be prepared for long queues. In this celebration, because there's that beautiful aspect of giving, you're going to see the Vietnamese travelling with a lot of luggage as they're travelling with a lot of gifts. I mean, traditionally you're seeing the red envelopes that are very much a part of the giving process and part of Tet here and in China and in most places that celebrate the Tet celebration. However, you'll also see that families are renewing their houses and they're doing a lot of cleaning and throwing out and renewing and reinvigorating because this is to set the platform, the process for their new year. This is to build confidence in a prosperous, healthy and happy house with their family and friends. No 2 - So, be early at the airport, bus station or train station, expect long queues, be prepared for it. If you can, especially with flights, I would definitely recommend that you go online and check in online. where you have the advantage of an online process, take it, because any way you can cut down on time is going to benefit you. No 3 - Number three, make sure you bring all of your travel documentation with you, confirming all your travel arrangements, your tickets, your accommodation, contacts, and all of that. Now, I say that because depending on what days you're traveling around this Tet season, is that because the staff are generally skeleton staff in a lot of the places, there is less resources on the ground to help you as a traveler to guide your trip in the case that you haven't got this. So I just say to all my travelers, Double, double check you've got all your paperwork, all your documentation, whether it's on your phone, whether it's printed, but you've got access to it easily so that you, I don't know, is it just peace of mind? I think it is. And just knowing that you've got that and you don't need to reach out to people because once again, you might be standing in a long queue to get an answer from somebody to help you through if you haven't got all your documents with you. No 4 - Number four. I don't normally stress this when it comes to Vietnam, but in this time and season, especially as Tet and New Year's Day falls, Don't expect too much activity once the day, the New Year's Day falls. There's a lot of lead up. I personally think that the lead up to Tet is the most exciting. There's just such a vibe in the air. There's an atmosphere. There's also so much color. There's traditions and you can read up about them and I've got some links for you in the notes. but you can read up about what some of the colours mean, the yellows, and you know, you'll see these beautiful kumquat trees, peach blossoms, and they will be lining the streets of your cities and your localities that you visit, leading up to Tet, because every household will want to put some symbolism or an offering to their elders, to their ancestors, express their gratitude. So they will be buying in food, they will be out and about, buying new clothes even to dress their children and themselves in to really celebrate this day. So there's a real, I don't know, anticipation. But once it actually arrives, as in New Year's Day is on the 10th of February, New Year's Eve would then be the 9th, you'll get your fireworks and you'll get all that buzz and all of that celebration on the eve, traditionally, as you would in a New Year's celebration. But once Tet falls that day, in particular in those ensuing days, it's quiet. And one thing I did experience, which I probably would have appreciated if someone had told me about, was that I'm not going to expect a lot of places open. So your hotels and all of your tourist attractions, et cetera, may be closed or may only operate in limited hours. They may even charge extra. And you may find that there's just not a lot of activity in the streets because people are in their homes, they're in their abodes where they can bring together the important people that they love and they can celebrate with. Now, because Vietnam is such an evolving country, not everyone is as old-worldly traditional as each other. And the young, you know, whilst they want to hold on to their traditions, they're probably going to make some adaptations about that. So there will be places open and there will be you know, the chance to get a coffee and things like that, but just not at the usual standard. So once again, for me, when I'm talking to travellers, it's about trying to manage your expectations and not expect on those national holidays in particular, they might not be as much open. No – 5 _Number five, I really would like you to make sure that you check in with your hotel or your homestay about what services they are operating, you know, for meals and just, you know, things like laundry or just what eateries are going to be open on those national holidays in particular, and may extend to things like, you know, your spa center, the gyms, anything that is depicted in your booking that is the standard may not be fully operational during the Tet season and in particular on the public holidays. And as I said, be prepared that in each area, in each location and in each facility or hotel or homestay, they will make their own decisions based on their staff and their ability to accommodate you, they will make their own call on what's available. So be prepared to contact your homestay or contact your hotel ahead of your visit, well ahead of your visit, maybe even two or three weeks or a month ahead to ask them what their plan is during Tet as you will be arriving or you may be staying during that time. and ask them to give you some clarification. Because once again, you may want to buy some snacks or some extra foods, et cetera, especially if you've got families, because that may not be as available for you during that time. I'm not saying it's going to be zero, but it's just not going to be at its optimum levels. No 6 _ The other thing I found during my TET experience was that some places use Facebook as a way of managing and handling their events, their hotels and their restaurants. So I recommend you to reach out to Facebook or Instagram, but certainly Facebook is very strong in Vietnam. And I know I was kind of a little bit on my own in this time period, The hotel was very quiet while it was all open, but I thought, oh gosh, you know, it'd be great if I could get a massage or, you know, a pedicure or something to fill in my time as I was going to be meeting up with some Vietnamese families in the ensuing days. So I reached out to a Facebook page of a place that did run massages and all the rest of it. I knew of them well. And I was very grateful that they were operating. They communicated with me back through Facebook Messenger. They even offered, because the taxis weren't as prevalent, once again, this is another sideline kind of effect of Tet, to come and pick me up if I was willing to be a passenger, a pillion passenger on a bike. So one of their lovely girls arrived at the hotel, picked me up, took me there to the place I had a lovely massage, and then they brought me back. So, Facebook can be your communication tool, for want of a better word, to reach out to some of these places. A lot of the younger staff that work for these organizations do have good to reasonable English, so they're going to be able to communicate with you and get you some information. If they don't respond, then you know, of course, that they are not operating. So that is just one other way to help manage your stay during Tet. No 7 _ Number seven is around expectation of restaurants food quality, freshness and the extension of the menus. One thing I did find was a little bit of a warning from people that because of the movement of people that their standard suppliers may not be in full operational capacity. So their ability to get fresh food in and in particular, you know, seafood and things like that. So they sort of cautioned me to be careful about what I selected to see that the restaurants would probably be offering a much condensed menu and it would be built around what they felt they were most confident in offering. I mean, you know, in In managing this, you're going to have to read the play yourselves when you are out and about. You're going to kind of have to get your confidence from seeing how many people are in the restaurants, just how much staff they look like they're having on board. And, you know, use your common sense where you can to decide where to eat. If you're staying in a hotel, the hotel's going to be very proactive in this way to let you know what is going to be available and you're going to be able to make some decisions there. I mean, personally, it's a good time in my experience to take advantage of the hotel or take advantage of the opportunity to chill out, to relax, to go for some nice long walks, you know, a chance to do some yoga, some just generally chill out. and try to get into their vibe of being grateful and appreciative of life and what's brought you to Vietnam in the first place. So just being aware of the freshness of food and restaurants is my number seven tip. Lastly is to make sure you've got enough cash No 8 _ So my number eight tip is understanding that in the element of closures and organizations that close will be banks. Banks that also fill out the teller machines, et cetera, that are, you know, quite prevalent in Vietnam. So making sure that you've got enough cash with you to get around, buy taxis, do whatever, I think is very important. So once again, I'm saying being prepared is the way to go. So I hope you found these tips helpful and I'm going to just finish off by talking about what's possible in Vietnam post Tet. So once Tet is finished, there's a time where people are enjoying the opportunity to catch up with friends and family and even reaching out to teachers and other principal people in their community that they want to pay respects for. I think you'll find that as Tet finishes, you'll see just a rejuvenation of the location that you're in. And, you know, expressing your gratitude to the people that you're meeting and mixing with, sharing with them some of the favorite foods, the chung cake in the north, the Tet cake in the south, you know, making sure that you express the special greetings that come with Chuc Mung Nam Moi is very appreciative of the Vietnamese. They will love that you have taken the time to understand a little bit about what Tet is about and that you recognize the importance for them, that you're respectful of their time to do this, their dedication to this. And I think you're going to really see a little bit about what the depth of Vietnam is in their cultural traditions and how beautiful they are. I'm going to put a few links in the show notes to help guide you with this. Please feel free to reach out to me directly if you have any further questions and I'm more than happy to help you. If you are trip planning in 2025 and in the coming years, please note those dates for TET. And now that you have this information, I'm hoping that you'll decide whether or not, you know, it is for you to travel in this time period that it It suits you to do so or not. And as I said, it's really up to the individual to decide how they want to play it. For me, I tend to travel usually before Tet or after Tet so that I give the people their due in having Tet because it's really not about us as tourists, in my opinion. It's really about the Vietnamese themselves and giving respect to them for that time. So take that on board, use it as you can and how you will in the future for your trip planning. And I hope you're going to have a wonderful time. That's all we have for today. I look forward to bringing you more travel stories and insights into traveling to Vietnam in future programs. Handy links:- https://nationaltoday.com/tet-holiday/ https://www.asiahighlights.com/vietnam/new-year/date https://www.myvietnamvisa.com/vietnamese-new-year-tet-holiday-dates-animals-food-and-traditions.html Future years table of dates: TET New Year 2025 January 29th Year of the Snake TET New Year 2026 February 17th Year of the Horse TET New Year 2027 February 6th Year of the Goat TET New Year 2028 January 26th Year of the Monkey TET New Year 2029 February 13th Year of the Chicken

5e9ff723-f389-4d55-a827-80295ca29276As 2025 draws to a close here are some reflections. What About Vietnam S1-E11 Last words for 2025 Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. This episode is going to be a little bit different. I wanted to take this opportunity to say hello to everyone and to kind of embrace this time of the year as we get closer to Christmas and turning over the calendar to 2026. If you are here, then I'm thinking that you are thinking about a trip to Vietnam and I definitely hope that through the podcast series and the website whataboutvietnam.com, I can offer you lots of information to help you plan your trip. Conversely, you can always reach out to me to create an itinerary for you. So, as I said, the episode is going to be very different. Today, instead of taking you somewhere new in Vietnam, I wanted to take you somewhere a little closer to home to reflect, to thank you and to share what's next. When I first started the What About Vietnam podcast back in May 2020, Really my only goal was to share the magic that I felt every time I traveled there. The smells, the sounds, the people, just those really genuine moments that made me fall in love with the country. Now, if you recall, at that time we were all home during the pandemic, so travel felt a long way away. The podcast became a way to travel through stories, to meet locals, guides, expats, returnees and to kind of shine a light on the Vietnam that lives beyond the brochures and the guidebooks, etc. Try and put some feet on the ground to it, I suppose. And certainly, you know, through the show, I can't help but share with you my experiences and my takes. But as we understand, everyone's experience is different. Now fast forward three years, a bit over three years actually, a hundred episodes later this podcast has become so much more than I ever imagined. It's been downloaded in over 70 countries and I've had the joy of talking with people from all walks of life. Historians, chefs, wellness leaders, adventurers and of course travellers just like you. To every guest who gave their time and voice, I want to send you a very sincere thank you. You brought this show to life. You, in fact, gave it the personality, the energy, the self-expression and the passion that you have. are for the country and for your time there. So extremely grateful. To my listeners, your messages, your questions, your stories about visiting Vietnam after hearing an episode They have meant the world to me. You've kept me inspired through every series, every late night edit, every challenge, every thought provoking thought I've had about, you know, what can I do differently? What can I do better? You know, what is important to you? What do you need to know? And how can I bring that to you in a way that is understandable and easy to comprehend? One of the things I love most about this show is that the stories are evergreen. Whether you're listening today or three years from now, the insights and emotions are still there, waiting to be discovered. If you've just joined us, There's a whole library of episodes to explore, from street food adventures in Hanoi, to the quiet beauty of Yen Bai, to the joy of wellness retreats, and even a few episodes about dental and cosmetic travel. It's all there, told through real experiences and open hearts. So even while this mic takes a rest, the stories live on. Okay, time to pause. After three wonderful years, it feels like the right time for me to take a step back and take a deep breath. I want to give myself space to reflect on everything what about Vietnam has become and to imagine what it could be in the future. I kind of need to put my tourist headset back on and have that freedom of curiosity to expand what I want to do with what about Vietnam in the future and how I want to bring the stories to you. So it may not look the same. Maybe it returns in a new form in 26, maybe with fresh voices or a new way of storytelling. I'm not sure yet. And I hope that's OK with you. But unless I do that, I just don't feel I'm going to give you the best of me. Sometimes, as we say, you have to stop for a while to truly move forward. While the podcast takes a little time out, I'm not going anywhere. I'm not dropping off the planet. My love for Vietnam and helping people experience it is still very much alive. So if you're planning a trip, I'm still here through my trip planning and itinerary building services at whataboutvietnam.com. You've only got to see the pages there to reach out to me to request a trip plan. So that's where I'm going to be focusing most of my energy, creating bespoke journeys for travelers who want something authentic, something crafted with care for them in particular as a private tour. And I'll continue to share travel updates, news on visas, and some personal stories through my social channels and website. However, I may not be as full throttle in social media as I am currently, as I want this pause to be in content creation as well. Otherwise, you know, one kind of cancels the other out. I wanted to leave you with five thoughts or maybe five lessons . (1) Stay curious . Vietnam will surprise you every time. And that couldn't be more pertinent than in recent months with typhoons, with, you know, weather conditions really changing things up for people. So, you know, keep an open mind about how your trip is going to take form. You know, holding steadfast to some things can, I guess, kill off other opportunities and can also not give you the fluid options that you might discover something else just as wonderful. And even engaging with people under some, you know, conditions which aren't ideal can bring you closer to understanding the Vietnamese and how resilient they are. in times of change and challenges that can come up during a trip. You know, open that door, try that dish, you know, go in through an alley that, you know, in our own country we would never go down and see what you can find. You'll be amazed. I'm still amazed every time I make that decision to poke my nose in places that, you know, I wouldn't do in my own country. (2) Number two is travel slow. Sometimes the magic kind of happens in the quiet moments. Give yourself a break. It's really important in the travel mix to build in some days of rest. Otherwise, it can kind of feel like a work plan, like you're going to have to tick off everything every day to make sure that you've You've seen it. So I really stress if you can make some time to just chill out, people watch, muse, read a book, soak up the sun, view a sunset, go for a walk on the beach, maybe even go to a pagoda, say a prayer, read something profound. take in and breathe where you are and just accept that this is an experience that you're never going to get again. So taking those few moments to just slow down is going to help you really appreciate where you are and the aspects of everything you're experiencing. (3) Connect deeply is probably my number three thing I'd like to leave you with for 25. It's about connecting with people and sometimes just saying Xin Chao, saying hello to somebody can open a door. I can remember years ago, I did a cooking class and I met the owner of this restaurant that was running it in An Bang in Hoi An. And just through that connection and meeting this lovely lady, You know, I made a new friend. She could speak really good English. She wanted to know. She was just as curious about me as I was curious about her. So, you know, we shared many journeys since then. And just that moment in time when I could have or could have not kind of stepped out of my normal reserved self, it opened a door. So if you can, connect with the people that, you know, are guiding with you or, you know, you're meeting at various locations, etc. You'll find the Vietnamese are very welcoming, very friendly, and as I said, probably just as curious about you as you are about them. (4) I think for number four, where you can support the local environment , your choices really do help communities thrive. There's lots of opportunities to do that. In fact, I do a podcast about human trafficking with Blue Dragon. and the services that they offer to help rescue people and rehabilitate people who have been trafficked. You know, you'll be surprised that when you walk around various communities, especially in the more rural areas, you know, you will see opportunities to be able to provide some assistance where you can, and it doesn't have to be much. But, you know, making choices about how you dispose of rubbish and, you know, that all sets a really good example as that's not something that, Vietnamese have really understood but are certainly coming to grips with now. (5) Lastly, I'd like you to really keep dreaming about travel like life. It's an ongoing story. I think as Vietnam is growing and certainly opening up to the world as a fabulous destination, it's a big country and it's got a lot to offer. And I don't ever want to see Vietnam limited to about five places, I think, you know, look left and right, do your research, get in touch with me, ask questions, you know, really do some homework on where do you want this dream holiday to take you. If you want a certain type of experience that, you know, evokes more quietness, more locations that are rural, ethnic, then you might need to kind of get off the tourist map. If you want beautiful resorts, if you want luxury, if you want fine dining, well, you know, then I'm possibly going to steer you to another part of Vietnam. So don't ever feel limited, keep dreaming and I think you're going to have a wonderful time in Vietnam. In closing, from my heart to yours, thank you. Thank you for listening, for sharing, for being part of this journey with me. Every download, every message, every moment you've spent here has meant a lot. So for now, this is me, Kerry Newsome, signing off from What About Vietnam. And until we meet again, online in Vietnam or somewhere along the way. Take care, keep exploring, stay curious and have a wonderful Christmas and New Year.

Vietnam travel planning & itinerary design: accommodation advice, budgeted to your specs, transportation, food and dining and cultural activities. What About Vietnam Travel Services Travel Services Travel Services Travel Services Travel Services 1/11 Kerry Newsome Kelley McCarthy Welcome to What About Vietnam's Travel Services Through the success of my What About Vietnam podcast — and with travel thriving across Vietnam — I’m thrilled to offer a full suite of personalised travel planning and booking services, in partnership with my trusted Vietnam-based Destination Management Company (DMC). As someone who has spent over a decade exploring every corner of Vietnam — from bustling Saigon to the quiet rice terraces of the north — I bring genuine insider knowledge to every itinerary I design. My role is to help you experience your Vietnam, your way. Whether you’re travelling solo, as a couple, with friends, or in a private group, I offer end-to-end travel services, including: Domestic flights and local travel modes ie bus, train and private car Luxury and boutique and eco friendly accommodation bookings Private tours and transfers with professional English-speaking guides Special interest travel such as wellness, culinary, adventure, and cultural immersion experiences Tailored extensions to destinations like Cambodia and Laos 24/7 in-country support from my Vietnam-based travel team Working through my licensed DMC ensures your trip runs smoothly from start to finish, with all arrangements handled locally by professionals who understand Vietnam inside and out. Together, we curate travel experiences that are safe, seamless, and deeply memorable — designed exclusively around your interests, timing, and comfort. If you’re ready to explore Vietnam beyond the brochure, I’d love to help you design your perfect journey. Request a quotation HERE.

02ac6bda-343e-4b58-9776-faed892cffd7Inspired by love, Vietnam is an idyllic wedding destination Vietnam the perfect wedding destination Episode 8 Vietnam the perfect wedding destination 00:00 / 29:57 Despite Covid, brides and grooms are invited to hold out for their dream wedding and consider Vietnam in 2021 /22 as the perfect location. In this episode, I speak with Nadine Zeigeldorf, a wedding planner who elaborates on the kinds of things a wedding program can include to make the event incredibly special. Imagine a beautiful sunset and beach wedding. Fabulous tasty food. Chilled long stem glasses overflowing with bubbly served to you while curling your toes in the sand. After listening to this episode you will find yourself easily transported mentally into the romanticism of a 16th-century old town, or atop a mountain staring aimlessly at the amazing views of a Unesco World Heritage bay. Download Transcript PDF Read the transcript here

dab37f6f-38a7-4c56-9b1a-56aec8510979Language tips in Vietnam Learn best shopping words Learn best words to use for "shopping" in Vietnam Episode 21 S3-21 Learn "shopping words" 00:00 / 16:21 Shopping in Vietnam is “awesome” on so many levels. And while it may sound obvious - knowing some phrases or a few words in Vietnamese can really make the experience even more fun. In this episode (part 3) Ms Ha and I expand on the “game” of shopping or bartering, as Ha gives us some keys words to use to help you get the item you want, at the best price. Because lets face it. That's what we want, right? This is the last in the 3 part series on language as we have covered “Greetings” in part 1, “Dietary requirements” in part 2, and in this one we finish it off where you will learn some of the artistic language skills to use when “Shopping”. Simple phrases like - What is the “best price”?. “Too much” ! If you'd like to dig a little deeper to an expanded version of "Shopping in Vietnam "check out the episode (Series 2, Episode 2). This is one of the most popular in the series. Even if you don’t like shopping, the markets is a must to visit as this is where the heart and soul of the people lives. See locals bargain, share gossip, laugh and enjoy the whole experience. It makes shopping in a supermarket look very boring. You will love this final episode with Ms Ha, as it is a nice quick one and easy to follow. My thanks to Ms Ha again for her patience and wonderful skills in making the learning of Vietnamese so easy. To see her shopping click on the Link to the right. Download Transcript PDF Read transcript